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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Any 928 Owners out there?
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 2 2012, 12:11 AM
I seem to recall somebody posting here that they'd taken their 928 to some 914 or P-car events over the past year, so I think there are some closet Shark fans out there! 
I just don't recall who it was, or if there are several??
I have a crazy question which I posted over at the Pelican 928 Forum about whether you could tow with a 928, so any shark lovers here could maybe answer over there:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-928-technical-forum/662334-anyone-ever-tow-928-a.html#post6595065
Otherwise, if you prefer I'll just post it here too, but I didn't want to clutter up a 914 site with 928 questions, and risk being kicked to the sandbox again! 
TIA 
Tom
///////
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 2 2012, 12:14 AM
At the risk of a trip to time-out in the sandbox, I'll post the snipped question from the 928 forum here too .....
<snipped>
Okay Folks,
Please no pot shots for a crazy question about towing with a non-Cayenne P-car, but there is a method to my madness.
My question is whether a 928 could tow a small 16' - 22' 2000 - 3000 lb Airstream type vintage trailer?
... and if so, can a 928 be fitted with a removable tow bar set-up to clear the rear panel & offset any low-to-high height differential to the trailer's tongue?
My wife is hot to get a vintage trailer & tow vehicle, but I'm not hot on getting a pick-up nor SUV (sorry Cayenne folks) in our stable.
The 928 seems the perfect possibility with more than adequate power & torque, with the added advantage of being a fun to drive P-car & an automatic in many cases, which my wife prefers over a stick. A 928 that she ostensibly drives may also get her more interested in joining me at local PCA events.
I recall seeing a 928 in San Diego back in the 1980's towing a Hobie Cat a lot back in the day, but don't know how it was set up with a tow bar.
Unfortunately I'm a long time P-car orphan addict, having owned a 73 914-2.0 since 1975 which I'm currently slowly restoring after spending 25+ years in my SoCal garage. So adopting another unloved NARP Porsche model oddly fits, and I've always liked the 928's looks & easy GT performance.
TIA for any advice from the "Shark Tank"!
Tom T
Orange CA
///////
<end snip>
Again, TIA! 
Tom
///////
Posted by: dlkawashima Mar 2 2012, 01:34 AM
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 2 2012, 02:09 AM
That looks fit for a family of eight - 2 up & 2 down front & back!!!! 
Oddly enough Dave, we already have a Westy that's needs more oomph for a tow vehicle, but then the trailer becomes repetitively redundant with a Westy anyway! 
.
What can you do when the wife has her plan!!?? 
.... try to get a little fun in it for you! 
.... and maybe she'll like 
too, instead of wheeling our Westy around turns on 2 wheels! 
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 2 2012, 02:12 AM
Holy Crap!
.... my wife even has that very same Peace symbol hanging from her rear view mirror!!
Posted by: dlkawashima Mar 2 2012, 02:51 AM
I have a crazy question which I posted over at the Pelican 928 Forum about whether you could tow with a 928
http://www.smidgie.com/928/928tow/
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 2 2012, 03:56 AM
I have a crazy question which I posted over at the Pelican 928 Forum about whether you could tow with a 928
http://www.smidgie.com/928/928tow/
Thanx Dave, most of his towing pix are dead linx except the 2 of the 928s hooked up, so it's hard for me to see the detail of his tow bar build.
Hopefully I can find the tow car rear tow apparatus portion as more of a removable item, than what it looks like he did by welding into the frame & replacing rear bumper shocks, cutting the rear bumper, etc. I'd want something less intrusive on the towing vehicle 928.
But it does show that the 928 CAN tow a 3000+ lb. "something" across the country - CA to MA!
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 2 2012, 04:00 AM
An odd Quinky-dink that I just realized today as I was pondering a Shark tow vehicle, is that This TV network was playing a JAWS movie marathon!
Go figure!!
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 2 2012, 05:47 AM
Well for the naysayers, after looking around at some other 928 sites which I googled, I found that PORSCHE themselves provided a FACTORY tow hitch coupler, electrical connections for the trailers, & removable extended side rearview mirrors - among a plethora of roof racks & carrying accessories!
P/N: 928-721-031-02
.
Owners manual & shop manual lists tow capacities, although the tongue weights are pretty low ....
.
... hmmmmm ......
Posted by: BajaXJ92 Mar 2 2012, 06:39 AM
btt.
Posted by: SUNAB914 Mar 2 2012, 06:54 AM
My 80 euro had that tow hitch on it. Never used it, but thought it would be nice to have a jet ski behind it. My .02 is that what you are thinking about may require you too upgrade the rear struts and springs, I think regular BOGE struts and springs may not be enough. The transmissions are pretty strong but the torgue tube and connectors may be the weak link. Be interested on what you come up with. Give 928 International a call and ask Mark for advice. He will have the parts also. He will know.
Posted by: mepstein Mar 2 2012, 07:19 AM
My guess is the trailer issue will be a moot point when you add up the true cost of 928 ownership.
Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 2 2012, 09:11 AM
I have heard that the 928 was very popular in Europe for its ability to tow a sailboat...
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Mar 2 2012, 10:33 AM
I heard the 928 is quite famous for it's many electrical problems. 
I have also heard it is one of the best GT touring cars ever built. For towing, get an F150.
Posted by: SUNAB914 Mar 2 2012, 11:29 AM
Accessory issues due to electrical problems.
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 2 2012, 02:57 PM
btt.
Huh?? ... wtf is btt?
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 2 2012, 03:20 PM
My 80 euro had that tow hitch on it. Never used it, but thought it would be nice to have a jet ski behind it. My .02 is that what you are thinking about may require you too upgrade the rear struts and springs, I think regular BOGE struts and springs may not be enough. The transmissions are pretty strong but the torgue tube and connectors may be the weak link. Be interested on what you come up with. Give 928 International a call and ask Mark for advice. He will have the parts also. He will know.
Thanx Gunny!
I've heard that timing belts & torque tube replacements are the big 3+/- year interval replacement items.
I've been looking at the 86.5 928S's with big brakes, 288 HP/360 ft-lb TQ 16v 5.0L & early shark body, and 87-89 928S4's - as the price/performance sweet spot. Although I prefer the early nose/tail & spoilers - or no spoilers look
So I don't know if springs & struts would be an issue on those later ones?
The trailer she's currently looking at & hot for is a 20' 1960 Avion (looks similar to Airstream, but her hot-to-trot trailers change weekly!
), which is about 2600 lbs. & single axle - so it's hitch weight at 280-ish lbs. would be the problem here with using a 928 to tow. So I'll have to look at alternative ways to lessen that hitch weight to within the 928's 110# limit with the trailer experts, so convert/add to a twin axle which automatically adds stability & keeps the weight off the tongue.
EDIT: with a pic of her current "target of opportunity" -
.
BTW - if you're still in the DC area, I'll be there this Oct. for a conference with the wifey & visiting my brother/family (after visiting our kids in Asheville NC & Ft Drum NY), so maybe we can get together then? I'll PM you as time gets closer & I know my schedule better.
Cheers!
Tom
///////
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 2 2012, 03:23 PM
Accessory issues due to electrical problems.
From what I've been reading on 928 forums/blogs, that was worst in the pre-85 928s, but it's always an issue with heavily accessorized Luxe cars - especially once the parts start going NLA!
That's why we stayed away from the power windows & mirrors option packages when we ordered our Westy in `88, given VW's spotty quality in the 80's.
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 2 2012, 03:35 PM
My guess is the trailer issue will be a moot point when you add up the true cost of 928 ownership.
Right now we live 2.2 miles from her work, I'm in RE too (development side) & office at home & only drive to meetings, and live local to malls/stores etc., & kids are both grown & gone.
Ergo, we're only putting about <10k on all vehicles combined, and the trailering might add 1-2k per year max. - so adding a 928 into the mix & more or less evenly dividing the mileage puts it at 3300 mi/yr.
With IIRC 45k interval on the 928 timing belt & torque tube replacements - we should be just fine on annual maintenance costs & insurance - so long as we got one not needing all that to start & or other problems, electrical gremlins, etc. Some owners on the Pelican & other 928 forums are saying $1-2k per year for maintenance, with driving a lot more than we will.
But your comment fits right in line with the last Excellence Buyer Guide comments too. Also low resale - like our 914s 10-15 years ago at their low point in value or the 356's before that, which I think will eventually go up in another 5-10-15 as other P-cars have always done so. So I'm hoping if we bought smart/right now,& care for it for 5-10 years, that resale values by then would be on the upswing.
... I hope!
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 2 2012, 04:01 PM
I heard the 928 is quite famous for it's many electrical problems.
I have also heard it is one of the best GT touring cars ever built. For towing, get an F150.Elliot - I've already told her if it's to be a truck or SUV (not even a Porsche), then we'll just frigging rent one 1 or 2 times a year to tow it! We don't need a pick-up/SUV sitting around to pay for + maintenance + insurance to use it once or twice a year.
Plus maintenance & electrical problems are not non-existent on Ford F150s, other pickups & SUVs nor even Cayenne's - especially older ones.
Plus - I'm trying to get something for me out of this trailer transaction!
... and that top GT tourer rep. is what attracted me to this split use concept - IF it works out by towing capability for limited trips.
I don't even know if she'll like the looks of the 928's (important for the gals too),
.... but I think she'll like it's performance & ease of handling/driving with an auto ("her Westy" is an auto & her DD), which isn't the case for other P-cars.
So we could split our +/-10-12k annual DD & road trip time between it, the 325e & Westy - with the 928 used 1-2x per year to tow a few hundred miles, and preferably as the long trip road car.
Currently our 325e gets that duty (unless we're camping or hauling stuff) since it's more comfortable & gets 30-35 mpg highway than the Westy (vertical seating with min. recline & 18-22 mpg), but she doesn't like to drive the 5 spd in it (35 years as an RN gave her foot problems).
So the 86.5-89 928S's w/ auto mid to high 20 mpg highway would split the other cars' highway mpg ranges, & I'd think it would be more comfortable than either the 325e or Westy Vanagon, as well as than a F150!
Heck - when new the 928s were slotted above the 911s & sold for $50-80k in the mid to late 80s era I'm looking at, so they were superb GT tourers! An old GF's brother had one (85 IIRC) that I drove & rode in a few times, and it was sweeeet!
A completely different P-car experience, which I can much better appreciate for certain long trips, now that I'm 30+ years older!
... hopefully the wife would appreciate it too - if we end up looking seriously at this route - and then I get something out of this crazy trailer idea of hers!
Jury is still out ..... so we'll see how this plays out for the technical issues, whether wifey likes it, and whether we can find a decent one at the right price.
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 2 2012, 04:04 PM
I have heard that the 928 was very popular in Europe for its ability to tow a sailboat...
I've seen/read that too, and also have seen/read about several on the 928 forums online who tow their AX/DE/etc. P-cars to the track with their 928s, similar to the guy in the pix I posted above.
Posted by: jim912928 Mar 2 2012, 05:29 PM
I just sold my 83 928....was my daily driver (and for 1 year I commuted from IN to WI every week). I probably put 80k miles on that car, no issues, unbelievable cruiser, dependable. It has a lot of torque and is almost idling at 65MPH. I'd get in the low 20's on the highway..about 15 in the city. I never had electrical problems, but mine was also a virgin as the previous owners never mucked with any wiring. Only thing that would make me nervous was if I could visibly see if anybody had hacked up the wiring harness..that would be a red flag.
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 2 2012, 06:07 PM
I just sold my 83 928....was my daily driver (and for 1 year I commuted from IN to WI every week). I probably put 80k miles on that car, no issues, unbelievable cruiser, dependable. It has a lot of torque and is almost idling at 65MPH. I'd get in the low 20's on the highway..about 15 in the city. I never had electrical problems, but mine was also a virgin as the previous owners never mucked with any wiring. Only thing that would make me nervous was if I could visibly see if anybody had hacked up the wiring harness..that would be a red flag.
Thanx for the tips & info Jim,
Was it 85> that they changed to the better wiring harness to eliminate or at least minimize the electrical problems of the early 928s?
I'm guessing that because I saw in the 928 PET last night that the towing electrical hook-up option/accsy. had 2 alts. - IIRC they were for pre & post 85 MY.
If it goes the way of the 928 & I can solve the hitch wt. issue - and just as importantly if I can "sell" my wife on a 928 - then I'll try to find an old hand 928 expert to do a PPI, since I don't feel I know enough on those (914s I'm great with).
15 city & 20 highway sames about the same as our 88 Westy - so no loss there, plus a load more power.
BTW folks - my wife has been "lobbying" for a GoWesty big bore 2.5L waterboxer on the next engine rebuild/top-end of "her car"!
Cheers!
Tom
///////
Posted by: zambezi Mar 3 2012, 05:21 AM
I love when people talk about how these cars are unreliable and expensive to own and full of electrical problems. Of those people I always wonder how many have first hand knowledge of this. Or do they just know someone who knows someone with the problems. I am going on my 7th year of DAILY driving my '82 928. My only problems that prevented me from driving the car any of those years were a busted clutch hose and a pressure plate that got destroyed when the throw out bearing locked up. I have no electrical problems, never touched the torque tube, not done the timing belt yet but have the parts to do soon, and drive the heck out of the car. If you look above the liscence plate you will see the plug for my draw tight hitch. I have recently picked up an Austin Healey at the paint shop with an aluminum trailer. The car has plenty of power for pulling but can't handle a lot of tongue weight.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: jim912928 Mar 3 2012, 07:55 AM
I don't believe there was any direct change of wiring to deal with issues. 928's get tagged by a lot of folks as having electrical gremlins (mine never did)...but the real issue was in the massive amount of advanced (for the time) montiors and electronics. Just about everything is monitored in 928's (turn on the ignition and it looks like a space ship lighting up with all the diagnostic lights). Due to that it has a lot of wiring, a lot of relays and dual analog computers. How many 80's cars will tell you on the dash that you have a back light out? With more electronics just comes more issues when something arises. The problems come into play when folks try to fix things themselves. As I said above mine was a daily driver for years...and it NEVER once left me stranded. Only maintenance I did was normal fluid changes, timing belt (although the 16V non-euro engines are not interference...just never wanted to be stranded), water pump (only because I was in there to change the belt), wheel alignments and plugs.
86.5 model years started bringing in the 32V engines which are interference...thus you get a lot more diligence on timing belt changes...cheap insurance. I'm not sure, but I believe around 85/86 they changed the air conditioning system (which would draw more power and push for a bigger alt) to have a rear unit that was mounted between the rear seats vs. the luggage compartment that was optionally there. This did deal with an issue of heat due to that massive rear window. They also started, around that time, bringing in more digital electronics on the dash versus the analog setups...more modern looks but, again, power draws which had them amp up stuff.
Sharks are great cars and like any Porsche will cost more to repair...but what upscale car doesn't cost more to maintain? It's a dependable super cruiser that you can get pretty cheap relative to their original costs. One thing to note when you test drive one...the automatics start from a dead stop in 2nd gear. So if you are looking for that neck snapping start you either have to floor it (the gas pedal will hit a mechanical switch that will drop the tranny down into 1st) or manually shift it. The design here is for smooth comfortable cruising...thus they started it out in 2nd. It's a beast when you drop it in 1st. It's also a rocket ship from about 70 to 140!
Posted by: Drums66 Mar 3 2012, 02:58 PM
btt.
Huh?? ... wtf is btt?
.......btt
(ask scarface)
Posted by: SUNAB914 Mar 4 2012, 09:23 AM
Yes Tom I'm still here, matter of fact headed to Camp Pendleton today for the week. let me know when you are coming this way, love to have you over.
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 5 2012, 03:19 AM
Yes Tom I'm still here, matter of fact headed to Camp Pendleton today for the week. let me know when you are coming this way, love to have you over.
Sent you a PM with my cell, give me a shout hile you're here & we can get together, as it's close & my nephew is stationed there too.
Cheers!
Tom
///////
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 5 2012, 03:27 AM
I love when people talk about how these cars are unreliable and expensive to own and full of electrical problems. Of those people I always wonder how many have first hand knowledge of this. Or do they just know someone who knows someone with the problems. I am going on my 7th year of DAILY driving my '82 928. My only problems that prevented me from driving the car any of those years were a busted clutch hose and a pressure plate that got destroyed when the throw out bearing locked up. I have no electrical problems, never touched the torque tube, not done the timing belt yet but have the parts to do soon, and drive the heck out of the car. If you look above the liscence plate you will see the plug for my draw tight hitch. I have recently picked up an Austin Healey at the paint shop with an aluminum trailer. The car has plenty of power for pulling but can't handle a lot of tongue weight.
Beautiful 928!
.... I'm slightly more partial to the early shark styling, but both versions are nice.
Thanx for the info. The tongue wt. is what I'll have to solve, because the rest seems to work out well for towing.
I think it's the usual buy a good one, have a good experience, but a thrashed shark & pay the price - same as 914s!
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 5 2012, 03:37 AM
I don't believe there was any direct change of wiring to deal with issues. 928's get tagged by a lot of folks as having electrical gremlins (mine never did)...but the real issue was in the massive amount of advanced (for the time) montiors and electronics. Just about everything is monitored in 928's (turn on the ignition and it looks like a space ship lighting up with all the diagnostic lights). Due to that it has a lot of wiring, a lot of relays and dual analog computers. How many 80's cars will tell you on the dash that you have a back light out? With more electronics just comes more issues when something arises. The problems come into play when folks try to fix things themselves. As I said above mine was a daily driver for years...and it NEVER once left me stranded. Only maintenance I did was normal fluid changes, timing belt (although the 16V non-euro engines are not interference...just never wanted to be stranded), water pump (only because I was in there to change the belt), wheel alignments and plugs.
86.5 model years started bringing in the 32V engines which are interference...thus you get a lot more diligence on timing belt changes...cheap insurance. I'm not sure, but I believe around 85/86 they changed the air conditioning system (which would draw more power and push for a bigger alt) to have a rear unit that was mounted between the rear seats vs. the luggage compartment that was optionally there. This did deal with an issue of heat due to that massive rear window. They also started, around that time, bringing in more digital electronics on the dash versus the analog setups...more modern looks but, again, power draws which had them amp up stuff.
Sharks are great cars and like any Porsche will cost more to repair...but what upscale car doesn't cost more to maintain? It's a dependable super cruiser that you can get pretty cheap relative to their original costs. One thing to note when you test drive one...the automatics start from a dead stop in 2nd gear. So if you are looking for that neck snapping start you either have to floor it (the gas pedal will hit a mechanical switch that will drop the tranny down into 1st) or manually shift it. The design here is for smooth comfortable cruising...thus they started it out in 2nd. It's a beast when you drop it in 1st. It's also a rocket ship from about 70 to 140!
Thanx for the good info. Jim!
Other than the typical "net gripers" & self-proclaimed experts
... the only thing I've found on the electrical was this in the most recent Excellence 928 Buyers Guide:
"The earliest 928s have some undesirable features and I encourage you to avoid them. The 1978 and 1979 models had problems with their electrical systems, vacuum door locks, and air-conditioning. Changes made for model-year 1980 fixed these problems and made the 928 much more reliable, so I recommend looking for 1980-and-newer cars."
link to it here:
http://www.excellence-mag.com/resources/buyers-guide/294251490
I talked to a former Porsche mechanic at the Porsche Swap meet this afternoon (err.... yesterday now), who said that the problem was that they were heavily optioned with electricals, so there was more to go wrong, just as with MBZs, BMWs, etc. - but certainly nowhere near the problems of the 80's Big 3 [edit: #] products!
He was also saying that the later 32V 5.0 EFI Plenum design (smaller unit w/ shorter tubes) in 87> [edit: 88>] was better for low speed performance, than are the 84-86/86.5 [edit: 86-87] ones with the larger unit w/ longer crossover tubes, due to the air/fuel mixture feed. However it sounds like even the early 4.5 & 4.7 928s have little problem towing (within spec'd limits of course).
EDIT ADD FYI: This was per Kurt Donohoe, owner of Porschetechnik in Flagstaff AZ, who was a Porsche dealer mechanic for many years & knows both 928s & 914s - in case anybody gets "stuck" in Flagstaff. He said 87-on was the best for for the 928s & that 87-89 or up to 91 - with the improved 5.0L 32V motor with the smaller tuned intake plenum producing more HP & TQ, larger Brembo brakes, etc. would be best for my needs, since the later 92/93-95 era ones were so scarce & are more pricey.
Cheers!
Tom
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Posted by: Tom_T Mar 5 2012, 04:29 AM
btt.
Huh?? ... wtf is btt?
.......btt
(ask scarface) ... sorry, that means nothing to me!? ... we had a well endowed gal pal in the group we ran around with in the 70's for whom we modified her first name initial to add the BT to describe her better.....
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 5 2012, 06:53 PM
I wonder what is the "tongue weight" for the trailer hauling that humungous boulder that they're moving from Riverside County to the LA museum, that's been in the news the past week!
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 7 2012, 02:24 AM
I love when people talk about how these cars are unreliable and expensive to own and full of electrical problems. Of those people I always wonder how many have first hand knowledge of this. Or do they just know someone who knows someone with the problems. I am going on my 7th year of DAILY driving my '82 928. My only problems that prevented me from driving the car any of those years were a busted clutch hose and a pressure plate that got destroyed when the throw out bearing locked up. I have no electrical problems, never touched the torque tube, not done the timing belt yet but have the parts to do soon, and drive the heck out of the car. If you look above the liscence plate you will see the plug for my draw tight hitch. I have recently picked up an Austin Healey at the paint shop with an aluminum trailer. The car has plenty of power for pulling but can't handle a lot of tongue weight.
Zambezi - Where did you get your hitch & installation?
That's a very clean job & looks like a better & less visible one that the factory optioned.
Those all sound like normal wear & tear type items, & which sometimes "stuff" (aka
) happens repairs. Nothing I'm hearing nor reading anywhere in my research is scaring me off of 928s - as a GT cruising, nor for lighter duty towing.
The only question for me now is whether the tongue wt. limit can be safely resolved for my wife's planned trailer.
GTW/GVW for the T20 Avion that my wife is eyeballing is on title as 2400#, & so I'm guessing a tongue wt. of 240-250# if 10-11% of GTW, based on their other trailers of that periods GTW to TW ratios.
So I'm looking at these units as a possible solution to reducing the tongue wt. on the 928's hitch, by carrying most of it on the "hitch helper's" wheel(s) & axle.
There are 2 & 1 wheel varieties & large & small wheel mfgrs. that I've found so far, as in these pix .... and that new Airstream 16' actually weighs more than 3000# & has more trailer wt. than do the vintage ones of comparable sizes.
Posted by: blitZ Mar 7 2012, 06:27 AM
If you need to temporarily stiffen your rear springs for towing, Air Lifts work very well. I've had these on my Pathfinder for 10 years. Just add some air to level the trailer and stiffen the rear springs.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=air+lifts&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14528726519003874721&sa=X&ei=5FJXT4O3DIWatwfLwd2IDw&ved=0CIUBEPMCMAI
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 7 2012, 02:43 PM
If you need to temporarily stiffen your rear springs for towing, Air Lifts work very well. I've had these on my Pathfinder for 10 years. Just add some air to level the trailer and stiffen the rear springs.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=air+lifts&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14528726519003874721&sa=X&ei=5FJXT4O3DIWatwfLwd2IDw&ved=0CIUBEPMCMAI
Thanx for the tip Les!
Geez .... I just
every time I see your Blue/Tan 914 avatar beauty too! I may use those too, but will still need something like the "Hitch Helper" or "Stinger/Hell-Ya" or a similar set-up attached to the trailer's tongue frame to reduce the tongue wt. from 250-300# down under the 928's 110# limit, if this is going to work out.
Tongue/Hitch Weight reduction seems to be the crux of the matter here for me now!
Posted by: my928s4 Mar 7 2012, 05:22 PM
My 91 had a hitch light in the dash pod, presume with a factory hitch and harness it might have lit up.
I would have thought you would be better of with the auto for towing, they can handle more HP than the 5 speeds. Pre-MY85 the Porsche syncro's on a 5 speed could be an issue which with towing might hamper you.
Biggest issue with 928's are the PO's, aftermarket stereos and alarms are what cause the majority of wiring problems. A refresh of certain relays and cleaning of the ground points also help resolve other electrical gremlins.
You are in Orange County, 928intl is just around the corner for advice and parts.
928's are a steal right now, unless you want a project you can pick up a 928 that someone else has sorted.
All your 928 questions are better answered on Rennlist, that is where the 928 crowd hang.
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 7 2012, 06:15 PM
My 91 had a hitch light in the dash pod, presume with a factory hitch and harness it might have lit up.
I would have thought you would be better of with the auto for towing, they can handle more HP than the 5 speeds. Pre-MY85 the Porsche syncro's on a 5 speed could be an issue which with towing might hamper you.
Biggest issue with 928's are the PO's, aftermarket stereos and alarms are what cause the majority of wiring problems. A refresh of certain relays and cleaning of the ground points also help resolve other electrical gremlins.
You are in Orange County, 928intl is just around the corner for advice and parts.
928's are a steal right now, unless you want a project you can pick up a 928 that someone else has sorted.
All your 928 questions are better answered on Rennlist, that is where the 928 crowd hang.
... DAPO's are your worst enemy with any older vehicle!
Thanx for the info & pix Chris! Nice looking black 928-S4 you have/had there!
We'd only look at automatics, so it's a good DD for my wife, since she has foot issues being an RN for 35+ years, and for me on long trips where we just want to cruise - since we already have a 5-spd in both my 85 325e & the 73 914-2.0 whenever it's resto is done.
Speaking of the latter & seeing your pic of your 928 towing the 356 - eventually an enclosed trailer for my finished 914 to CW events would be a possibility too, and I know of a certain crazy 73 914-2.0 owner & 914-6 AXer nearby who may then press me into service to tow his black night over to the El Toro AXes!
I like the early shark body style with the 5.0 - so that's 85 & 86 (86.5 VIN...>1000 for the Brembo big brakes), or maybe 87 in the newer body style, or 88-89 for the revised intake manifold. I may look at an 86.5 after the Zone 8 CW "weenie school" on Sat.?? ... too early to think of buying without towing answers & the trailer, but just for food for thought at this point!
I agree that they're cheap now, but hopefully a good ready-to-roll sorted & well cared for one at a good price will eventually hit the value upswing & go up in another decade after some easy 2-5k per year use by us!
I plan to tool over to 928intl sometime soon, if this tongue wt. question can be solved.
I'll hit Rennlist & Porsche928forums with questions too then, if this get more serious on buying.
The beat goes on.......
Cheers!
Tom
///////
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 8 2012, 08:44 PM
A 928 with factory hitch option towing light trailer with TT Bike FYI .... 
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 12 2012, 09:16 PM
Another 928 with "caravan" in tow:
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 12 2012, 09:45 PM
This is an old ad of what my wife is looking at, being towed by a `60's mid-sized wagon with probably a big straight 6 or V8, but with far less HP/TQ than the 928. 
... or a bigger trailer towed by a shove-it! 
It was far more common to tow travel trailers with cars up through the 1960's & 70's - before the proliferation of today's pick-ups, SUVs, etc. - as it still is in Europe, UK & Canada.
Read here:
http://www.rvlifemag.com/file363/hitchhints363.html
.... more food for thought!
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 12 2012, 11:25 PM
A couple of other solutions to the tongue wt. reduction....
Tuff-Tow (as seen on many racers' rigs RV-towing-Race Trailer):
https://www.shogunindustries.com/cgi-bin/ws400CS.cgi?cart_id=1120312104317291&page=tufftowintro.htm
.
Remarkably similar to what Ricky & Lucy used on their old "Long, Long Trailer" movie:
.
And the TrailerToad - also used by the race crowd on their RV tow vehicles, which is similar to the Hitch-Helper, but beefier (both are considered hitch extenders & not an additional trailer, since they do NOT articulate at the hitch receiver, but are fixed-point inserts with the new pivot point at the ball at the rear of these units):
http://www.trailertoad.com/
.
I'm thinking that these set-ups may be of more use to others with towing issues on here too, beyond my just checking into using a 928 for towing in my case!
Posted by: unpolire Apr 10 2012, 01:56 PM
The trailer she's currently looking at & hot for is a 20' 1960 Avion (looks similar to Airstream, but her hot-to-trot trailers change weekly!
), which is about 2600 lbs. & single axle - so it's hitch weight at 280-ish lbs. would be the problem here with using a 928 to tow. Your wife has excellent taste! The Avion was superior to the Airstream in its frame and construction. I have looked at both to buy, Avions being MUCH harder to find. I have owned a Euro 928S, 5-speed, a wonderful and fast road car. I also recall seeing a photo, years ago, of a 928S4 with the factory tow bar on the autobahn with a pair of jet skis in tow. TUV is so strict in its certification that the 928 is obviously more than up to the task of towing, but I would not tow an Airstream-type trailer larger than a Bambi. My Land Rovers make excellent alternatives to the big trucks with far more luxury The EAS on Range Rovers makes it easy and you can lock it for towing. I still have GMC/Chevy/Ford duallies for heavy/long trailer towing. With a big block, those trucks don't even breathe hard towing anything you can hitch up!
Posted by: unpolire Apr 10 2012, 02:15 PM
This is an old ad of what my wife is looking at, being towed by a `60's mid-sized wagon with probably a big straight 6 or V8, but with far less HP/TQ than the 928.
... or a bigger trailer towed by a shove-it!
It was far more common to tow travel trailers with cars up through the 1960's & 70's - before the proliferation of today's pick-ups, SUVs, etc. - as it still is in Europe, UK & Canada.
Read here:
http://www.rvlifemag.com/file363/hitchhints363.html
.... more food for thought!
The Chevette towing that double-axle travel trailer is the scariest picture that I have seen in years: imagine a winding, downhill road with that trailer, which weighs more than the car, in tow...much less under panic braking.
Posted by: Tom_T Apr 11 2012, 07:35 PM
I've talked with the guy who makes this Hitch Helper, & the std. set-up takes 70% of the trailer's hitch wt., & 30% to the tow vehicle (TV), but he can adjust the lever arm action to go to 100:0 or even -65 to the TV (i.e.: negative wt. to the TV for those throwing a bunch of crap in their pick-em-up trucks while towing he said).
So he can custom fit it to the TV & trailer hitch hts. & wts. transferred, match wheels size to trailer &/or TV, etc.
He can also outfit them with optional electric or hydraulic brakes on the Hitch Helper axle, and it has a full spring or torsion bar suspension with shocks on the unit - which he called a "Tag Axle" generically.
EDIT FYI: I'd tried unsuccessfully for several months to get the dimensions & weight specs from the Hitch Helper guy - an email about once a month - after he'd promised to send them to me in the above referenced telecon, in order to see if the combined trailer hitch helper wt. would be within the 928's specs. On the final email he called me up drunk on a Friday night & cussed me out for "...bothering him with stupid details...." etc. - so needless to say, I do NOT recommend anyone doing business with such an unprofessional a-hole who cannot even provide basic specs. for his own product.
Moot point, since my vintage trailer expert who had done the PPI for us on the 1960 Avion T20 shown above has recommended a weight distributing hitch with anti-sway control such as a cam/bar Reese or the Hensley Arrow - or Cub in the case of our small trailer - which is lighter than the hitch helper/tag axles. However, it will require a 2" receiver type hitch similar the Chris' with the silver 82 928 from Lafayette LA in the post above, in order to "plug-in" the Hensley apparatus. FYI for those interested, I'll post the Hensley info at a later date as a follow-up post at the end.
The 928 idea has hit some hurdles with the wife, but the other alternative might be an early Cayenne (03-06). For now we'll just rent a pick-up or SUV for the few occasions we'll tow my wife's "new" trailer to vintage trailer/car events.
[end edit]
.
We'd only be towing a Bambi sized trailer, since that Avion T20 is lighter at only 2400# empty - even if 4' longer than the Airstream 16' Bambi in the pic above (it's +/- 3500# IIRC).
So now that I know it can work, we're looking at 928s too.
The Avion T20 is a "go" for the wife, unless I find a fatal flaw when we go see it in person, but it's been checked out & got lotsa pix - regardless of a TV.
We may just rent a pick-up/SUV a couple of times a year until we find a good 928 & get it all fitted out, or if a 928 ends up being a no-go with the wife.
She still has truck ideas in terms of back seats & hauling crap, but we already have two 5-seaters: the 85 BMW 325e & 88 Westy - & the Westy hauls a lot of stuff for us already.
I need to get her thinking "fun sports car for just us, with an occasional limited use back seat, that can tow your damn trailer in style & comfort"
- cuz we don't want/need another big vehicle to only use 2-3x a year!!
Posted by: Tom_T Apr 11 2012, 07:41 PM
This is an old ad of what my wife is looking at, being towed by a `60's mid-sized wagon with probably a big straight 6 or V8, but with far less HP/TQ than the 928.
... or a bigger trailer towed by a shove-it!
It was far more common to tow travel trailers with cars up through the 1960's & 70's - before the proliferation of today's pick-ups, SUVs, etc. - as it still is in Europe, UK & Canada.
Read here:
http://www.rvlifemag.com/file363/hitchhints363.html
.... more food for thought!
The Chevette towing that double-axle travel trailer is the scariest picture that I have seen in years: imagine a winding, downhill road with that trailer, which weighs more than the car, in tow...much less under panic braking.
I think it was a joke shot, which my wife wants me to do with "her trailer" & "her Westy" for the fun of it, staged somewhere, but not actually towing it of course.
Posted by: Tom_T Oct 10 2012, 04:24 PM
We did end up getting one of these:
.
I just rented a Ford F-150 to tow it home from Albuquerque in July:
.
A tight fit in our 1921 home's narrow 8' wide driveway! 
.
My wife has been in "full nesting mode" since then - cutesy-ing it up!
.
My vintage trailer expert who had done the PPI for us on the 1960 Avion T20 shown above has recommended a weight distributing hitch with anti-sway control such as a cam/bar Reese or the Hensley Arrow - or Cub in the case of our small trailer - which is lighter than the hitch helper/tag axles.
However, it will require a 2" receiver type hitch similar the Chris' with the silver 82 928 from Lafayette LA in the post above, in order to "plug-in" the Hensley apparatus (see post #24).
FYI for those interested, I'll post the Hensley info at a later date as a follow-up post at the end.
The 928 idea has hit some hurdles with the wife, but the other alternative might be an early Cayenne (03-06). For now we'll just rent a pick-up or SUV for the few occasions we'll tow my wife's "new" trailer to vintage trailer/car events.
Cheers!
Tom
///////
Posted by: Tom_T Dec 14 2014, 09:12 PM
FYI - Here's what I ended up with for the Hensly Cub WD/Anti-sway hitch (smaller than their Arrow & good for up to 6000# trailers at about 60% the cost of an arrow), & Tekonsha RF wireless trailer brake controller (mounts on trailer, wireless hand unit plugs into cigarette lighter/12v outlet in TV cabin).
The Hensley eliminates sway, allows the trailer to turn tighter & all the WD stuff stays on the trailer (except the tow bar/stinger, as with the ball/tow bar on any hitch).
http://hensleymfg.com/
It also resolves the hitch wt. issues on a 928 - & obviates the need for those tow dolly type units, but the receiver would need to have a beefed-up tube strut forward similar to the 928 factory hitch's long forward link to transfer WD to the front axle.
The Tekonsha RF brake controller is essentially a wireless Prodigy P3, that allows me to use any tow vehicle with the trailer. It's mounted high on the plate in order to allow the Hensley's side strut adjuster arm to clear.
I also got a set of Hensley's McKesh Towing Mirrors as shown on this Cayenne in the pic below, to solve the rear/side view issues with a fat silver twinkie behind the Nissan Pathfinders we were renting to tow, and will use them on the TBD Cayenne S or whatever.
https://www.safetowingstore.com/McKesh-Mirrors-p/70007.htm
For now we're continuing to rent pick-ups/SUVs for TVs +/- 3x a year for vintage trailer events, but would do more if we had a TV in the fleet.
I never could get my wife happy with the 2+2 seating of the 928 , so the hunt continues for a nice 2006-2010+/- Cayenne S with "a real back seat" as she says!
PS - I also found a German TUV (their version of DOT) testing which rated the 928 to tow up to 4416# braked travel, boat, horse, car, etc. private trailers with a 165# hitch wt. (load bearing ball hitches - no WD data was used in Europe). This is what was on the Porsche factory 928 hitch pix that I previously posted on here. If anyone wants it, send me an email & I'll attach that pdf.
Happy Holidays!
Posted by: Larmo63 Dec 14 2014, 10:30 PM
We have a 32' Airstream Motorhome….I plan to tow the 914.
http://s983.photobucket.com/user/Larmo63/media/IMG_1729_zps594b1bc5.jpg.html
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