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Posted by: itsa914 Sep 21 2004, 08:30 AM

This is an auction currently on ebay. Isn't it illegal to swap vintags? I hope this isn't someone here

Quote from auction: "This auction is for a title and all the VIN tags from a 1971 Porsche 914 that was parted out years ago. The title is clear and in my name. I will have it notarized so you can have it transfered to your name. All the ID tags come along with the title. You get what is in the picture no other parts. Great way to get a title for your parts car! "

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7923404775&category=6763

Posted by: ArtechnikA Sep 21 2004, 08:35 AM

bigtime.

Posted by: GWN7 Sep 21 2004, 08:37 AM

It's illegal here, but the guy is in Ohio. I know a guy in Ohio who married his cousin......

Posted by: Andy Sep 21 2004, 08:57 AM

It's not illegal in Colorado, so long as you clearly own both vehicles... Which means you should have a title for the vehicle being swapped too... But sometimes the state creates situations where you need to do crap like this, the won't give a savage title because the registered owner can't be contacted, heck I still haven't transferred title to my 914 because I need to pass an emissions test to do it and it's in pieces - you also can't do a multiple transfer here so if I sell my project the new owner needs to get an emissions test done, then transfer title to me then we can transfer to him (or I get a bill of sale from the previous owner to a new one). That junk tends to leave vehicles in title limbo here and the title swapping has to be done.

Anyway we do it here for rock buggies and one-off off roaders, but then usually the rig is built from so many different vehicles you just choose one title and vin plate to put on it and "say" that's what it is - but often there isn't enough of any vehicle to call it one of another, it was built entirely from parts. This is much simpler than trying to have it registered (inspection process etc) as a custom built vehicle.

In Colorado this "is" a '65 CJ-5...



Not that there's a single '65 part on it.

Posted by: tdgray Sep 21 2004, 11:09 AM

Uh Yes it is illegal....in every state!

You cannot purchase a title for the express purpose of transfering VIN's. PERIOD!

If you get away with it...good for you but I can tell you from first hand knowledge that the Ohio State Highway Patrol who is responsible for such inspections would most likely send you packing if you tried this. I had one letter out of place on my MGA title and they gave me the third-degree for two hours when I had it inspected.

Also if you apply for a title with a rebuilt salvage vehicle you must show ALL and I mean ALL receipts for the work done to said vehicle to make it roadworthy again. Oh yea and they only take appointments once a month for this process. TOTAL PITA.

As for people from Ohio... I've heard of much worse from the Canadian's ... sheep... cows...seals :finger2:

Edit >>> As I was writing this the ebay listing disappeared hows that for not illegal<<< Edit

Posted by: maf914 Sep 21 2004, 11:10 AM

We never did hear any more about RacerChris's restoration project car with two vins.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=16888&hl=police

Posted by: itsa914 Sep 21 2004, 11:24 AM

I sent the seller an email just as a FYI that he might want to make sure that he would not get in trouble for doing this. Maybe that is why its gone.
I never implied in my email to him/her that I was going to report them or anything just that they should CYA.

Posted by: GWN7 Sep 21 2004, 01:12 PM

I knew when I typed that, someone would get miffed, but the truth is stranger than fiction.

The guy worked at a company I sold for a few years ago. The state trooper who grilled you was probably wearing there product on his feet.

True story/thread hijack over....

Posted by: ArtechnikA Sep 21 2004, 01:20 PM

"truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense ..."

Posted by: larryp Sep 21 2004, 02:25 PM

You see this in classic car circles; you are not purchasing the "title" per se, you are purchasing the car, what is left of the car here is the VIN tags. Unless the DMV has retired the VIN, the tags are still good, and the tags are the car. The title goes along with the purchase.

You then take the tags and rebuild the car underneath them and make a complete car. This is, of course, somewhat easier by sliding a complete car underneath, e.g., by removing and replacing the tags from something existing.

I have seen people (legally and properly) purchase a firewall with a title, and assemble parts around it to "restore" a car. I have also seen one case where an old race car (I am trying to recall, but at present I believe it was a GT-40) when used up and cheap, was sectioned and later, when valuable, different people did this with both sections and (properly but confusingly) claimed to have restored the original car. (Do-able because race cars get build tags but not titles, since they are not registered.)

Posted by: phantom914 Sep 21 2004, 02:32 PM

OK, OT, but around here they do the same thing with houses to get around certain regualation/rezoning/revaluation or whatever when a house is extensively remodeled. The whole house is demolished except for the front door frame and a new house is costructed around that.

Andrew

Posted by: Andy Sep 21 2004, 02:42 PM

This process IS sanctioned by the Colorado State Patrol.

I'm sure if you wanted to put one basic VIN on another basic 914 there would be questions (mainly because the only reason to do it is to hide the history of on of the vehicles). But if you were trying to put a title to a tube chassis racer that is exactly how you would do it.

The object of doing it this way isn't to sneak anything past anyone, just to get a sanctioned USDOT VIN number to a vehicle approved by the state. Also not to be an ass but most one-offs aren't built with receipts, they are built by their owners. I'm sorry you had a hard time with the Ohio State Patrol but that was different issue - I'm sure they didn't like your VIN with numbers transposed... because that would make an outright fraudulent VIN, not a transferred one. Once again this is a relatively common practice out west, I wouldn't be telling you it's done if I didn't know it was.

I wonder how many armchair lawyers flamed the poor bastard who listed this?

Posted by: itsa914 Sep 21 2004, 03:00 PM

I hope that is not the way the person took my email. It just struck me as odd. Last year a chop shop & local junk yard near here was busted for doing this. They would steal cars and either chop them up or take vintags from junk cars and and swap them, then sell them as salvaged title cars. I'm not saying that they were doing anything like this, just thought they were setting themselves up for someone to screw them.

I did talk to my neighbor during lunch, he is a ATF agent but before that was a State trooper, he told me that same thing Andy has said here. As long as you can document the process you would be ok, its when you have no title, or vin info doesn't match the rest of the car is when you have problems.

Posted by: AZ914 Sep 21 2004, 03:53 PM

Hmmmm.....


Here in AZ, we have an emissions inspection on all 1975+ cars in which one must display a recirculating air-pump and catalytic converter.... Of course I have a 75. Always wanted to rip that crap out... put on some good SSI exchangers, etc.


Now if the car was a 71....?

Posted by: Kevin@ojai.net Sep 21 2004, 06:38 PM

Sounds like the same scam as in the 1974 flick "Gone in 60 seconds"

-Kevin