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Posted by: Bruce Allert Sep 25 2004, 08:24 AM

It seems the only problems I've had with Punkin is always the EFI (except when I sucked an exhaust valve in the 1.7 )

I know, I said I was done with the car in another thread but I luv this car & if I switch to carbs would this be the way to go?

If so, what is needed for the transition on a 74 2.0?

.......b

Posted by: Bleyseng Sep 25 2004, 08:48 AM

About $600 and some stupidity..............

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 25 2004, 08:56 AM

my guess was a bit higher. used carbs(whatever the market), intakes, linkage, fuel pump, gaskets, air filters, a gazillion jetting questions...

kevin

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Sep 25 2004, 08:57 AM

Bruce, have you done all the various D-jet tests with a volt/ohmeter using Brad Anders data? Once you get over your frustration, that's where I would start. Although a sudden change like you experienced usually means something came loose.

Posted by: Bleyseng Sep 25 2004, 09:00 AM

I can loan you my Djet tester if you want.

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Sep 25 2004, 09:05 AM

Quick Bruce, say yes before he changes his mind!! I'll even help so I can see how the thing works.

Posted by: lapuwali Sep 25 2004, 09:08 AM

At the risk of inflaming Jake and the other pro-carb people, removing a troublesome EFI system and fitting a set of used Webers is simply trading one set of frustrating problems for another. It's just as much work (perhaps more) to get the Webers working, it's just different work. The end product (unless you do other things and/or have magic hands like Jake apparently does) will not work as well as the D-Jet. Bad mileage, a nearly constant smell of fuel, the air cleaners pass more dirt (unavoidable with K&Ns, which are unavoidable with Webers unless you fabricate an airbox), more noise.

New Webers are a tad less work, but new Webers are much more than $600 a set now.

Posted by: Hi_Fi_Guy Sep 25 2004, 09:17 AM

I am a big fan of F.I. and if you have all the original F.I. components and have the skills, or access to a person with the skills then it should be made to run really, really well.

Having said that, I was in a situation with bucking and surging on a sopposed original F.I. car that had many, many missing components and in the end we were surprised it was running at all.

For me the solution was carbs. Mostly becauase I decided to go with a2270cc combo and at the time aftermarket F.I. started around $3500. Having previously owned two F.I. 914s I can honestly say that the carburated engine runs smoother, has better throttle response with no bucking or surging and also, it starts every time

The downsides are:
- Induction roar, a good noise but can become a bit tiring on the open road ( I guess an air-box or something would cure that).
- Expert tuning can be tricky. Anyone can get a car with carbs to run, but to get it jetted and running correctly has become a sort of black art in this day of computer controlled everyhing.
- Emissions testing. Again, expert assistance is required to tune the car to pass and then re-tune the car to run correctly (carbs & ignition). In some states just having the carbs can cause a failure of the visual inspection.

I am positive that a properly set-up and maintained F.I. system can and will run better, produce more power over the entire rev range, and produce less emissions than a carb'd car. As happy as I am with my current set-up I am constantly watching the market for an F.I. system that I might want to step-up to so for me carbs are a short term solution that allow me to enjoy the car today rather than wait another three years.

Posted by: ! Sep 25 2004, 09:28 AM

Ask Andy how he likes carbs....

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 25 2004, 09:28 AM

right on the roar. on a 800 mile road trip it gets old.

kevin

Posted by: Bruce Allert Sep 25 2004, 09:39 AM

OK, so....
this is the responce I was hoping for..... thanks.

Geoff, I will take you up on your offer and Jim, yours as well. If I can get this thang figured out I just might keep it.

I'll give all 'O you guys the "Silver Tongued Devil" Award ten times over

thanks bro's.......... b

Posted by: Joe Sharp Old Sep 25 2004, 10:02 AM

Bruce: No mater which way you deside to go at least you'll always have something to do thats not Boring.
Joe

Posted by: Mark Henry Sep 25 2004, 10:22 AM

Screw carbs, if your dead set on getting rid of the factory FI get a SDS or Kit Carlson FI system.

PEFI rocks!!!!!

Posted by: anthony Sep 25 2004, 10:33 AM

If you are a DIYer, Megasquirt is also an option. By the time you are done and buy an LM1 wideband o2 sensor setup to tune it, it will cost $600.

A brand new set of carbs and linkage is closer to $900 now. Ouch!

Posted by: Bleyseng Sep 25 2004, 10:50 AM

Can't say I want to ship the tester as its old soo how do you want to get it?

You coming up this way soon? BTW its over at a fellow 914guys now as he's trying to track down a problem.

Geoff

Posted by: Bruce Allert Sep 25 2004, 10:57 AM

Geoff, let's hold off for now so I can sleuth out this problem first. Could be a wire that I can't see w/o pulling the air cleaner or sumpin under the car. My sister lives up yer way & wil be coming down in a couple weeks. We can arrange a pick up when that happens.

This last Sunday at AX a wire on the starter came unplugged. Maybe that wire is resting too close to something just enough to short intermittantly (grasping at straws)

......b

Posted by: Hi_Fi_Guy Sep 25 2004, 01:51 PM

I thought the Kit Carlson F.I. system was no longer happening. Am I wrong?

Posted by: Ray Warren Sep 25 2004, 05:08 PM

WTF !!
Where did you hear that?

Posted by: 3d914 Sep 25 2004, 06:23 PM

Bruce,

Just an amendment to the MegaSquirt suggestion. You can successfully do Open-loop (no O2 sensor) and only spend $300.00 or so. Ask me how I know!

Posted by: bob91403 Sep 25 2004, 06:26 PM

Fixing your FI is a better idea for several very important reason. All the buyers guides tell people to shy away from 914-4s that have been carbed. Makes it harder to sell. They say it's a sign of a problematic vehicle. It decreases the value because it's not original. And, you can sometimes get into trouble trying to register it. Some states do not allow modification of the fuel system.

Posted by: Mark Henry Sep 25 2004, 09:13 PM

Yep wrong....

Don't know the time frame, but Jake and kit are working to get the system out. It should be on the market in a couple of months, next spring at the latest.

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 25 2004, 10:33 PM

i'll trade you a set of 40 webbers ...

they're giving me an major headache!
Andy

Posted by: Bruce Allert Sep 26 2004, 07:40 PM

Hooo Boy! that's a lot of good info. Thanks guys.
I got back from our weekend escapade in the wine country of Washington around noon & set out to fix the car. There was a short.... Somewhere Maybe from the washing I don't know. But I tested the CHT & while moving the wiring around I must'a done something cuz it is running like it used to... GUD I also found the alt belt very loose so that might havre been contributing to the problem. Not enough juice being put to the battery.
Anyway I'm gonna keep the FI for now.

thanks for the great input

......b