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Posted by: sanman Oct 1 2004, 11:02 AM

Has any one sprayed both ppg & Omni.
you can get 2 stage omni for half the price of PPG
I have use PPG in the past and was wanting an opinion
of the omni which would be better single stage PPG or 2 stage omni. Any words from experiece would be appreciated

Posted by: McMark Oct 1 2004, 11:29 AM

Quality = $

I'm sure you can get a fine looking paint job with Omni. You can't tell someone the difference in look of paint. It can only be seen. If you buy PPG your paint will look better if it's applied correctly and you've done good bodywork. If you didn't spend at least a month on bodywork (3 days making it good, 1 week making it pretty nice, and 3 weeks making it perfect) get the Omni and don't bother with the PPG. If you spend a lot of time making the bodywork perfect then get the PPG and don't waste your good bodywork on cheap paint.

Posted by: 1bad914 Oct 1 2004, 11:38 AM

I have painted with both. The PPG DBC was thicker and would allow you to lay down a thicker first coat. After that I could not tell the difference. I had to almost lay down a tack coat of the Omni, it would run if laid on to thick. Omni is actually less then 1/2. I paid $66.00 a gallon for it. I'll post two pictures, the completed car was painted with DBC, the partial car is with Omni. I would paint with Omni again. Painting is all in the prep! 90% prep, 5 % skill and 5% luck!


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Posted by: 1bad914 Oct 1 2004, 11:43 AM

Here is the Omni. I actually liked the way the Omni clear layed down. I would never paint single stage, it is not as forgiving. MHO


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Posted by: 914forme Oct 1 2004, 11:45 AM

Omni does not have as many pigments so it takes more coats to get the same coverage, thats how they make it cost less.

BTW, PPG is not good either try to find Eikkens or ICI, they are the best but $, but you spray on less. I shot PPG, because it is avalible locally, but only on stuff I really need too. Other peoples cars, repairs on the DDs etc....

For my racecar builds I goto the local tractor supply store and pickup a gallon or two of their lovely tractor enamel. I can buff it out nice and best of all, its only a few $$ and I can get it in JD green and gold.

I shoot white on the racecars.

Let you know JD green gallons all colors are $21, primer is $8 Yeah I know I just killed a few people with this but guess what its cheap and I can pickup a rattle can of white when I am at the track out in BFE, and it will match. And painting a racecar for less than $100 bucks is money in my bank.

Posted by: DonTraver Oct 1 2004, 06:22 PM

I like the PPG Delstar, doesn't need a clear coat. Color sands and buffs out real nice. Also, real easy to touch up the paint chips you get from all the uncovered dirt trucks running on the freeways.

I use a 2 part epoxy primer, then shot a tack coat of PPG, then a couple of full coats, or until I run out of paint. Once you add the hardener, gotta shoot it. When I did my 6, I did one panel at a time, took 3 1/2 months, but then black is a bitch to shoot, panels have to be perfect.


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Posted by: bondo Oct 1 2004, 06:52 PM

How much does the delstar cost? I want to go single stage so I can color sand and buff out oxidation. I've never color sanded before... Can you describe the process so first timers like me won't screw up a fresh paintjob? (what grit, what to do, what not to do, etc.)

Posted by: DonTraver Oct 1 2004, 07:13 PM

OMG, you want the whole procedure, lol, that's gonna take awhile. I'll have to get back to you on that.

Couple of things, basics on paint. You do get what you pay for. Good paint isn't cheap. Neither are the other supplies you're going to need, ie, sand papers, compounds, buffing pads, sealer coats, spot putty, fillers,etc. Preparation and cleanliness is the key to do a good job, shooting the paint is the easy part.

I spent approx $1200 on paint and supplies. I took the car to a PCA tech session at Phil Thearles Shop after I finished her, He does all the High End cars. He took a look at the 6, said he'd have charged
$8000 for the paint job.

Anyway, I'll write up what I did, tools I made, etc, and post it later

Posted by: SirAndy Oct 1 2004, 07:32 PM

i paid $650 for a gallon of Guards Red!

and the body-shop guy sold it to me for what *he* paid for it!
Andy

Posted by: spare time toys Oct 1 2004, 07:54 PM

Im shooting FREE paint. At work we get paint that expires and they throw it out. The feds require an experation date on aircraft paint so whats bad for the company is good for me.

Posted by: McMark Oct 1 2004, 07:56 PM

That's what the good paint costs. Brandon just bought paint for the car in the shop and it was that much. OUCH!

Posted by: DonTraver Oct 1 2004, 09:05 PM

Supplies: Quantity:
Paint 1 gallon
Reducer 1 gallon
Hardener 1 pint
Fish Eye Reducer 4 oz.

Sealer paint 1 qt
Epoxy Primer 2 qts
Mixing Cups 1 qt size
Tact Cloths 6+
Spot Putty 1 tube
Super Fine Bondo 1 can

Sand Paper:
400 Lots
600 1 package
Meguiar’s Unigrit Sand Papers
1000 1 package
1200 1 package
1500 1 package
2000 1 package

Compounds: Meguiar’s
Heavy, Medium, Light cut 1 bottle of each
Swirl Remover 2 bottles
Glaze 1 bottle

Orbital Buffer 10 inch 1
Orbital Buffer 6 inch 1
Buffing Pads for both 6+ each

36 inch sanding block made one, explain later
2 air filters for paint gun
Masking tape lots
Masking paper lots
Degreaser 1 gallon


OK, here goes.
Wash car with Degreaser to remove all road dirt and old wax, scrub. I use this degreaser I get at Costco in the Auto dept, pulls the old wax right out of the paint, use full strength, and don’t let it dry.

Identify body panels that are going to need work. Mark with a Marker Pen. Remove all body trim and bumpers. Glue 400 paper onto sanding block, go over entire car with sanding block, use a hand spray bottle filled with water and dish washing soap to keep surface wet, keep a hose handy. Rise/dry car, you’ll be able to see all the low spots. If there are small dings, parking lot, try to pound out, and then fill with super fine bondo or JB Weld. I filled the battery tray with JB Weld, and then shaped with a surfacing pad. If the battery ever eats the JB Weld, it’ll be time to throw out the carI removed doors, hoods, hood hinges, engine cover, lights, eyebrows, side marker lights, tail lights, door latches, pretty well stripped her down, if it could come off it did.

Made a 36 inch sanding block. Used 1/8 x 2 x 36 inch aluminum flat plate and 1 inch alum angle. I attached the angle to the flat plate with counter sunk screws, 6 inch spacing for screws. Do not weld together, you’ll warp plate. Attached sand paper to sanding block with spray adhesive, pain in the ass to change paper, used razor blades and lacquer thinner to clean plate for new paper. But it worked great on doors and hoods.

Note about Bondo, there are a couple of different types, one type holds water, one type doesn’t, get the one that doesn’t. Body shop supply should have it.

Start with one panel, I hung doors and hoods in garage and shot them that way. Put eye bolts in ceiling, hung them with bungee cords and wire. If you have old sheets, cover everything up for over spray.

THIS IS IMPORTANT: Before any painting. Find a good ground on car and any panels/doors you’re shooting, run a wire to a water pipe, clean water pipe for good connection. I shot 1 fender without doing that, then one fender with a ground. I had at least 80-90% less dust in the paint with the ground wire. I painted my car in the driveway; I always shot the paint in the morning, before any wind came up, prepped car night before.

When you think you’re all ready, lol. Mask, prep car for paint. Shoot sealer coat of paint, this seals old paint, preps for primer. Let dry, wet sand with 400 sand paper. You have 48 to 72 hours to shot primer over sealer paint , shoot primer, wet sand with 400 sand paper, then 48 to 72 hours to shoot color coat over primer, or you start over. These times are another reason I worked one panel at a time, easier to shoot one panel, than the whole car.

When you shoot color coats, first shoot a light tack coat, let dry 20 minutes, and then shoot at least 2 color coats at around 15 apart. Watch for flies, they like the smell of fresh paint, ask me how I know. This is how I solved the fly problem, I had my neighbor bring his big dog over and take a dump in my yard. Fly strips, fly catchers didn’t work, but that dog sure did lol.

Let paint dry 4-5 days, in the sun if you can, then start the color sanding start with 1000 up to 2000, use lots of water mixed with dish washing soap. Then start buffing, heavy, medium, light, swirl remover, glaze, and wax. Change buffing pads a lot, only do about 6-8 square feet before changing pad. I used the degreaser to clean pads, put them in sun to dry.

Like I said, there is no way to speed up a good paint job; it’s time consuming, often overwhelming. That’s one reason I did one panel at a time, plus I was driving her and racing her during the restoration. As long as I just concentrated on one panel at a time, I didn’t get overwhelmed.

You won’t like this. 2 weeks after I finished all the paint, I went to Harbor Freight to pick up some tools. I’m waiting to check out, this guy comes into the store, says,” Does anyone own a black Porsche”. I said OMG, yes. He’d just backed his Ford F-250 with ugly dock bumper over the front end, got both fenders, turn signals, and the hood. The good news, he didn’t run, the bad news, I got to redo the whole front end, again.

Chances are, I forgot somethig, any questions, ask. One other thing, I've been painting Harley's for about 20+ years. I've never had a dis-satisfied customer yet. Take Care, Don

Posted by: URY914 Oct 1 2004, 10:34 PM

Admin needs to put this in the classic threads list.

Don, everbody that has ever or will ever paint thier car themselves thanks you.

Paul

Posted by: 914helo Oct 1 2004, 11:11 PM

Don, that's a great write-up. Thanks for taking a few minutes to do that.
I'm starting to sand and prep my car for painting. I've done small pieces and panels before, but this will be the first time I do the whole car. Thanks again.

Posted by: scruz914 Oct 2 2004, 12:02 AM

OK. Who knows what BFE stands for?

I'm pretty sure I know.

And Don, that was a really great write up!

Sorry if this is a hijack.... I think Don already closed things up.

-Jeff

Posted by: URY914 Oct 2 2004, 04:15 AM

Bum F...Ejup

(I don't spill too good)

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Oct 2 2004, 04:30 AM

Great write up and the car backs it up. THANKS

Bob

Posted by: F4i Oct 2 2004, 12:04 PM

Grounding is very important fiberglass is even worse. I also reccomend the use of a tack cloth just prior to shooting.

Posted by: DonTraver Oct 2 2004, 12:14 PM

See, I knew I'd forget something.

Prep car, the night before, masking tape and paper.

The day of the painting. Take a rag, fold it square, soak with reducer, not dripping, just real wet. Lightly wipe down areas to be painted, ONE Direction, ONE Time. Let dry, then lightly use a tack cloth. Now you're ready for the first coat.

When you mask off, you're going to get finger prints, finger prints can cause the new paint to lift later on, wiping with reducer will remove the finger print oils.

I always wiped down, then went to mix paint to give it time to dry before tack cloth.

I'll probably remember more later, anyone else see anything I've missed, wouldn't surprize me. lol

Posted by: DonTraver Oct 2 2004, 06:43 PM

One last thing. I can not paint your car for you. I can paint mine, but not yours. If I paint your car, the EPA can get involved, since I'm not painting in a booth, don't have a licience, etc.

I CAN teach you how to do it yourself, even supply the guns, blocks, etc. If you want to bring the car over to my place, that's fine too.

One thing I've learned about the EPA when I worked for Caterpillar building and running Generator Plants. Once you get the EPA on you ass, you never, never, never get them off. I saw what happened to other companies that did. Better to not get them on your butt in the first place.

Take Care, Don

Posted by: 914forme Oct 3 2004, 05:54 PM

How true that is, the EPA can be a real Bear. I know a guy who built a chrome line in his plant, by the book, and once he was done he called in the EPA just to make sure the book did not change because some EPA do gooder thinks it should.

You will love this one even more, I found some old Dynamite all swelled up and nasty stuff. Called the authorities and they called in the Bomb Squad. Not a big deal right, you ignite it in a controlled environment with people hundreds of feet away. Getting the stuff to where you can burn it is more risky than the destruction process. But you have to call the EPA to get a permit, and then they have to show up, even though these bomb guys are from the airforce base - hey they feds also. 5 hours latter we get to burn this stuff, and now are a dot on the EPA map.

It was a fun day, got to tell everybody at work to leave the building, they thought I fired them! And got to watch a Sheriff take a tape from a news guy - because he was taking pictures of the Airforce Bomb Personnel - National security - this was way before 9/11.