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Posted by: Porscharu914 May 17 2012, 02:12 AM

Recently I was gifted a '71 914. This car was given to me by a member at the country club I work at. In 1983 he took the car to a shop in Nebraska where he paid a guy 4k to do a FULL restoration to the motor and body. ($4000.00 went slightly farther than it would today) The guy was supposed to work on the car on the weekends and they planned the project to take 18-24 months. After the motor/trans were pulled and the body work had been done the shop closed down and the car had to go....NOW. The guy I got the car from picked it up from the shop and stored it, mid restoration, in a garage thinking someday he'd get to it. The car hadn't been touched from then until last 2 Sundays ago and I'm now the proud owner of a primed, motorless, transmissionless, brakeless, and interiorless 914. With all the resources and personal abilities I have I should be able to flip the car in about 2 years....hopefully sooner.

Since the motor and transmission were pulled and mysteriously went 80% of the way missing I've decided to do the somewhat frowned upon Subaru swap. Yesterday I picked up the FWD transmission, yes FWD, out of a 92 Legacy. I'll be going back for an EJ22 (non turbo) on Monday. I'm not worried about mounting the motor/trans or getting CVs that will fit. I'm most concerned about doing an ALL AROUND hub conversion for the sake of saving some $$$ on brakes and the versatility of a wider wheel selection.

So with the novel out of the way here are a few of my questions:

What hubs will be the best bet for all 4 corners? (consistent bolt pattern is a must)

Is plumbing in a front mounted radiator the most effective water cooling solution?

Do I need to upgrade the fuel pump? If so, to how many lph?

Is there an easy solution to making the Subie conversion work with my guage cluster? (tach, speedo.....etc)

Are there any non-mechanical issues I'm up against for bolting everything together?

Also I would very much appreciate any added advice or tips to make this a smooth conversion.

Cheers

Posted by: wingnut86 May 17 2012, 07:00 AM

Education is key. Read all the blogs and builds here as you can.

Crawl, walk before you run. 2 years is ambitious unless you have bottomless pockets.

If you sell to the Southwest or Southeast, you may want to install AC for the Suby as well.

Welcome and Great Luck!

Posted by: Lennies914 May 17 2012, 07:34 AM

The answers to all your questions are here. Search for subaru wiki page. Britain did a nice job of consolidating alot of the info.
Or look at some of these builds;
sawtooth
strawman
zaney
dbcooper
bigkat 83
porcharu
carreraguy
amenson

Good luck, I'm looking forward to seeing your build.

Posted by: 904svo May 17 2012, 08:18 AM

After putting a 2007 Subaru WRX in my kit car. I would suggest you get the following.
1 A complete manual on the car
2 Complete engine and wiring harness from the car, If its a 2005 to 2007 get
the immobilizer and keys also pre 2004 as far as I know were not equipped.
3 Use the 914 transmission with the Kennedy adapter.
4 Be prepare to do some plumbing work for cooling.

5 THINK THING OUT BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING!!!

Yes, you can use the original 914 gages.
Alternator light same as 914 1 wire
Oil press light same as a 914 1 wire
Gas gauge requires some electrical work to fake out the ECU
Starter circuit (914 key) requires rewiring, but will work.
With a 914 transmission and that engine a new shift rod will be required. Using
a 914 transmission will locate the engine for you by using the rear mounts and
original half shafts can be used.
Tach some late models will work but most require a adapter
A VSS circuit will have to made up and attached to the half shaft
Speedometer will work with 914 transmission

These were some of the problems I ran into doing my conversion.

Posted by: drdave427 May 17 2012, 04:38 PM

Why didn't you use the Subaru transmission ??

Posted by: 904svo May 17 2012, 05:33 PM

Cause it was to long, it would fit outside the 904 fiberglass body
thats why.

Posted by: Dave_Darling May 17 2012, 06:08 PM

The front hub is part of the front rotor, they're one solid casting.

I don't know of any other hubs that fit the front spindle. The only rear hubs I know of that fit the 914 are 914-6 rear hubs. And those fall into the category of "rather expensive", even for a Por$che.

It is relatively popular to change the 914 over to the five-bolt pattern (5x130mm) that the 911s use. You use 911 front struts which fit the 914 pretty much perfectly, and give you the 5-bolt hubs and bigger brakes. Swapping the cross-member, A-arms, and so forth is optional.

The rears are tougher. The more common way to do them is to have the stock hubs drilled 5x130mm and studs pressed in. Then either re-drilled 914 rear rotors or unmodified 914-6 rear rotors can be used with the stock 914 rear brakes--though often a little grinding of the OD of the rotor or moving the caliper out a couple MM is needed when using the Six rear rotors.

Other options include working up ways to use 911 rear rotors and calipers (sometimes including the internal drum brake e-brake), or machining hubs and bearings and doing mix-and-match to get things to fit.

We know of people who have made adaptors to go from 4x130mm to 4x100mm. Those seem less-cheesy than the four-to-five adaptors, though they are still not that highly thought-of in some circles.

--DD

Posted by: dlo914 May 18 2012, 12:39 PM

VOX and i are also doing an EJ22 swap, but went with the original 914 901 transmission adapted using the Kennedy Engineering Plate.



Our thread: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=92942

Posted by: dlo914 May 18 2012, 12:49 PM

Our cooling solution: dual core full aluminum radiator for a Mazda Miata, two 12" electric pulling fans, 20ft+ gates rubber hosing running underneath the floor pan in the factory grooves, and shroud made out of aluminum sheet metal.

Posted by: Porscharu914 May 18 2012, 05:08 PM

Wow! Thanks for the warm welcome into the Porsche 914 world. I'm excited to be a part of this community.

Thanks for all of your input and help on some of the things I was curious about.

For the drive line end of things I have absolutely NO original 914 tranny to start with. This is why I went with the Subaru tranny. It's FWD so I don't have to worry about the headache of the AWD trannies. There's a great shop near me that builds very solid custom CVs and are reasonably priced so going from the Subaru tranny to Porsche hubs won't be a problem. However if anyone knows a good place to get adapters to make the bolt pattern 4x100 I'd appreciate the lead. I'll be fabricating a push/pull cable system for the shifter which will eliminate shift linkage.

On the cooling side of the project I've seen builds with lines plumbed into and through the interior, and lines that were run under the chassis of the car. I'm planning on plumbing through the interior as I see it to be more beneficial. Does anyone have any reason(s) I should plumb underneath the car instead. (outside of putting holes in the firewalls) It's funny that the Miata radiator was brought up because my buddy is thinking about donating his Miata radiator to the project. He also suggested 2 12" fans. Hmmmmm....I think I'll do that.

Thanks again for the warm welcome and help.

Total project cost so far (car included): $140

This was as soon as we got it on the trailer after sitting for nearly 30 years

This is the 5 speed FWD Subaru transmission all cleaned up ($140)

Posted by: Porscharu914 May 18 2012, 05:10 PM

I'm also in need of a pair of the side skirts. Where can I find new OEMish ones?

Posted by: kg6dxn May 18 2012, 06:13 PM

Nice Score!



Fix the rust first! Look everywhere and under the battery. Then look again.

If you pick up a subie donor car, you can use the factory ECU and have a tuner shop flash out all the un-needed stuff (abs, air bag, etc...) You could run the subie dash cluster too if you wanted.

Posted by: Porscharu914 May 18 2012, 07:52 PM

There's not one bit of rust on the car, the body is in great shape! I found the motor that I'll probably end up getting this Monday. It's out of a 92 Legacy, it has 140,000 miles on it but I'll go through and completely reseal the entire motor, pick up a new alternator, water pump, and replace the timing belt/chain. I can pick up the motor and PCM for about $225. That includes a $50 core charge and I've got a spare KA24DE for my 240sx sitting around so I'll be looking at $175.

I want to keep the looks of the car, minus the wheels, as stock as possible. I've also got a set of racing seats to go in it since the stock vinyl seats are worn out. Like I said in my first post, I have a ton of good resources to begin with. One of which being a good friend of mine that works as an Audi tech at the local Porsche and Audi dealer. He's agreed to help me go through and, from scratch, rewire the ENTIRE car.

I've also picked out the near mid-night green that I'm going to paint it. Can't wait!

Posted by: Lennies914 May 18 2012, 07:58 PM

Just sayin

Posted by: pktzygt May 21 2012, 07:52 AM

I hope to fire my WRX swapped 914 in the next couple weeks, but as far as the interior goes....you might want to look into black carpet on the rear firewall. I would fit with the aftermarket buckets you are putting in and will save cash.

Also, to save you time searching, those cooling hoses pictured above with the yellow stripe are from NAPA and are sold by the foot. Gates green stripe hoses are also a good option.

Posted by: Porscharu914 May 22 2012, 06:34 PM

Picked up my Subaru Legacy 2.2 liter with 140,XXX miles on it for $275.00 yesterday. There's a $100 core charge but I'll get that back on Tuesday when I take them my 240sx motor I have sitting around. I also got a timing belt and reseal kit for the motor. That was another $240. I also found out that the intake plenum on the Subaru motors are reversible. (With minor bending of the fuel lines) I'm still only into this for about $650. I still need to get a starter, alternator, and PCM but those will probably come over the weekend or maybe Tuesday. Tuesday will also include mocking up the push/pull cable shifter system so I can order the cables and work on getting them mounted and working properly! I'm hoping to have the motor torn apart, cleaned, possibly painted, and resealed some day next week or early the following week. Making lots of good progress in the right direction!

Is anyone familiar with any companies that sell flat unmolded pieces of carpet that i can mold myself? (probably with a heat gun) Or anyone that sells new replacement carpet for the car?

Posted by: wingnut86 May 22 2012, 09:31 PM

Morph through his relationship with 914Rubber sells it.

Ping Mark Whitesel for info...

Posted by: dlo914 May 24 2012, 01:33 AM

the intake manifold is reversible, but then you would have to fabricate a new adjustable tensioning bracket for the alternator since the alternator still sits on the front side of the motor. We went through this entire situation with our EJ22 and resorted to cutting a 6x5" hole into the rear trunk to plumb the intake.

Posted by: Porscharu914 May 24 2012, 01:43 AM

I decided that the inconvenience of having to plumb the intake out weighs all the other custom fab work to flip the intake. Oh well it was worth a shot.

Posted by: Dasnowman May 24 2012, 02:25 AM

Wow that doesn't look like a good idea at all wouldn't it be better to run the lines in the heat ducts throught the rocker panels?

Posted by: abnrdo Jun 3 2012, 12:34 AM

You can do either. Through the rocker panels is a PIA. Renegade and most of us have used the green or yellow striped hose run along the grooves under the car. Works great and the hose is tougher than you think.

Posted by: brant Jun 3 2012, 08:33 AM

Nice to see a denver guy on here

we have a colorado yahoo group too you may want to join

I'm certainly no subaru expert
but front coolers give better efficiency
and you will be miles ahead (in simplicity, cost, and resale) if you stick with one of the porsche style hubs and wheels (4 bolt or 5 bolt)

your going to have to modify your fenders anyways before you can get much larger of a wheel in there... so you should leave your paint until later and figure out your wheels and tires first.

Posted by: Porscharu914 Jun 3 2012, 09:48 AM

I'm definitely happy to see I'm not the only one by any means here in Colorado. I haven't searched too hard for the fender flares but all the kits I have found are like $2000. And in comparison to the rest of the plans for this project it's a little absurd. I'm not going to be building crazy amounts of power where I would need 225s. I would like to get a 205 in the rear and a 195 in the front. Or maybe even 195s all the way around.

Posted by: brant Jun 3 2012, 09:59 AM

195 or 205 are going to fit fine with stock fenders and either 4 bolt porsche wheels or 5 bolt porsche wheels. adapters to 5bolts are kinda frowned upon and also eat up tire clearance

Posted by: Porscharu914 Dec 10 2012, 02:54 PM

asdf

Posted by: dlo914 Dec 11 2012, 04:45 AM

We got our 4x130 to 4x100 bolt pattern conversion adapters from these guys on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wheel-Adapter-4x130-4x100-Spacers-1-3-Made-In-USA-/370710129369?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item56500baad9&vxp=mtr


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Posted by: Gint Dec 11 2012, 09:13 AM

Hey! I didn't see this thread last summer. Spent the entire summer working my a$$ off.

Nice project. There could be a Sub conversion in future at some point. I think about it every now and then. Have you considered trying to do a mid mount rad? Just curious. That's one of the primary reasons I don't want to do a water cooled conversion at this point. I just don't want to lose the entire front trunk.

Who is the shop you referred to for building CVs? Denver Driveline?

Posted by: Porscharu914 Dec 12 2012, 03:25 PM

I put a little bit of consideration into the mid mount radiator, but I'm trying to save room in the engine bay. I also don't plan on using the car for anything other than having the pure joy of driving it. My plans for the radiator will be to plumb copper tubing through the interior on the floor just right of the shifter. I've seen some people mount the radiator all the way in the front upright and cut out holes behind the bumper. This is the way I'd like to go with a pair of auxiliary fans constantly running to make sure it runs nice and cool. I also have a spare hood so I may hack it up to see if I can come up with an efficient scoop design. We'll see.

Since the car is 98% rust free of course the wiring had been destroyed by mice. I need to rewire the entire car. Anyone know of any good general rewiring kits?

Posted by: Porscharu914 Dec 12 2012, 03:29 PM

The shoo that I went to is called CVJ. They will build absolutely ANY cv you could dream of to hand any amount of horse power. They're very friendly and willing to go the extra mile to satisfy. The built me a custom cv for my JDM B16 Honda build. I called and they were able to build it for me that day. I think it put me out about $250.

Posted by: FourBlades Dec 12 2012, 03:39 PM

Great project.

Keep the pictures coming!

John

Posted by: Porscharu914 Apr 18 2014, 02:25 AM

Haven't posted in a while....a long while.... Project was put on back burner after deciding to go to real estate school and get my license. I wasn't able to really dedicate any time to the car. I decided back over the summer to paint the car a generic red for now. It was originally red and I did not want to worry about painting the engine compartment, trunk, etc.... didn't get much else done to it the rest of the year. However in the last few weeks I've made some good progress. I've finished spraying the clear coat on the car, wet sanded and buffed 1/3 of the car, reinstalled the read glass, and started working on my cable shifter. I'm using the shifter out of a Ford Focus bolted to a 12"x12" steel plate. My buddy has donated the carpet out of his "Zombiata", zombie Miata, and surprisingly it will fit with very minor modification. It is tan so I now have some motivation to get some of the interior redone in tan as well. Seats are seconds away from being ready to go in. Also going to test to see if the center console out of my 4Runner will work, not entirely optimistic but still hopeful. Almost certain now that I will use the yellow stripe Gates houses to run as coolant lines with some sort of basic skid plate over them. Working with Ian, IM101, of coldwater914.com to get an engine cradle so I can get the heart of the monster installed. I NEED A WINDSHIELD!!!!! Anyone know anyone/anywhere I can get a windshield please PM me. I'll post some pictures of some of the stuff I'm working on soon.

Posted by: CptTripps Apr 18 2014, 02:45 AM

There was a thread not too long ago where a guy was selling windshields pretty cheap. I got mine for under $200 iirc.

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 18 2014, 08:10 AM

Wondered where you went. Glad your back at it.

Posted by: stimpyvan Apr 18 2014, 08:31 AM

Have you begun working out the geometry of this yet? I'm curious to see what you come up with as we are considering going with a cable shifter set up.

Van

Posted by: JRust Apr 18 2014, 09:53 AM

Don't worry about a skid plate for the Gates hose. The beauty of using it is it's tough. Running it under the car works great despite many who don't like it. If you happen to scrape it just flexes. Adding a skid plate that may just bend/dent. You'll just crush the hose & restrict your flow. Just attach the hose good in the recess & forget about it.

Posted by: Porscharu914 May 4 2014, 09:54 PM

Finally getting into this project. In the last 2 weeks I've been getting together a lot of stuff. Waiting on several parts right now. Ian over at coldwater914.com is sending an engine cradle to me. I have an American Autowire kit that should be here tomorrow afternoon. Ordered pads and rotors from Pelican Parts. My radiator fans should be here Wednesday/Thursday. Also waiting to find out if I will have the winning bid on an RCI 12 gallon fuel cell. I also picked up a new alternator and radiator.

I'm working on resealing the motor and replacing the timing belt. Motor also got a fresh water pump, plugs and wires. Hopefully I can get the brand new fly wheel and clutch on once I finish the reseal. I'm going to use one of the hoods that I have to make an extractor to help pull air through the radiator. I'm really learning a lot through this experience. Like the carpet out of a 99 Miata fits decently in the 914. Needs a little trimming but for $free.00 I won't complain.

My buddy and I are starting to play around with fiber glass in hopes of eventually moving into pulling carbon fiber. Who wouldn't love a set of carbon fiber head light covers? Instead of the white, which gets terribly painted black. I will try to keep anyone posted on how all of this comes along. PM with something you may like to see made out of carbon fiber and maybe in the future we can make it happen.

When I get the engine cradle and can put the motor/trans in the car I will begin working on the cable shifter a little more. I'm using the shifter out of an 02? Ford Focus. Took a small amount of modding to get the cables attached, nothing major. Cables came out of a boat and are about 8 feet too long but I can use them for now.

Still a lot coming up in the next few weeks. I'll try to get some pictures up soon.

Posted by: CptTripps May 6 2014, 07:43 AM

That's great progress. Once you get all the major pieces done, it starts coming together real quickly.

Tip: Don't under-estimate the amount of time you'll spend on replacing the wiring, especially with a kit like that. I thought it'd make things easier, but it's proving to be a BIG undertaking. On top of that, you'll have a lot of work to do on the wiring harness for the motor as well. I wish I'd just gone with the Stinger conversion and bought his harness to match it up. I'd likely be on the road by now. I went with the Hydra and a custom harness that I made myself. I'm SURE I did something wrong, and only hope I don't fry something.

Posted by: Porscharu914 May 7 2014, 03:11 PM

Yesterday I picked up a new windshield. I paid $110 dollars for the brand new piece of glass! I also finished the reseal of the motor and replaced the timing belt. Brake rotors and radiator fans should be here Thursday/Friday. New flywheel and clutch to be installed by the weekend? Talked to a local custom axle builder and I will have a pair of axles built for around $650.

For Colorado guys interested in the Subaru conversions these guys really will help you with what you need. CVJ off I-70 and Brighton Blvd. in Denver. CVJ Axle (303)-297-2448 ASK FOR SEAN.

My overall knowledge of these cars is still incredibly small. Someone please help me with a decent suspension set up that may lower the car about and inch. (I do not want to spend the $2500 for a full coil over system) I would like to take the car to the track. Should I go with a Bilstein strut with some heavier springs? I would like to stay within a $600-$800 range. Pelican Parts only sells springs for the rear in different spring rates as far as I can tell. I plan on using 1" wheel adapters to change the bolt pattern to 4X100. I would like to get wheels that are 16X7 and run a 205/50/16R. I don't know what offset/back spacing to run. Any information will help.

As always thank you for any and all info. Love being a part of this community!

Posted by: malaga_red75 May 7 2014, 07:14 PM

For the rear suspension, I would recommend Koni Yellows with threaded collars. They are expensive brand new, but they come up in the classifieds here or craigslist or ebay from time to time. (I think I got the struts and collars for ~$500 for the pair)

Adjustable damping and adjustable ride height. I run 16x7 Fuchs on my subie conversion with slightly pulled rear fenders and was able to adjust the ride height to perfection.


IIRC the front ride height can only be adjusted a little without re-indexing the adjustment screws (can't remember the technical term for the front adjustments). I basically lowered it within the stock adjustments and don't have any problems with bump-steer.

Hope this helps. PM or ask me any questions about the subie conversion. It can be a real headache sometimes, but it is totally worth it! ~200hp in a 914 with proper suspension/brakes is always a good time.

Posted by: rnellums May 7 2014, 09:00 PM

Is there a reason that you don't want to get the axles form Ian too? I think his are under 400 for the pair, and Kent (76-914) has a guy in CA that will do the pair for 160. 650 seems like a lot.

Posted by: 76-914 May 8 2014, 10:48 AM

Word, my friend! Plus, they are now set up to do similar (MY '03, M5/TY-75) 29 tooth. Just tell them your a 914World member. They'll cut them to length and re-spline for $139. + shipping which puts it right at $165 which Ross quoted. Dutchman Axles, ask for Travis. Search my posts in the last 2 month's. It's all there somewhere.

Posted by: Porscharu914 May 8 2014, 04:35 PM

The guys I've asked to build the axles for me impressed me so much with my previous dealings that it'd be hard to do anything else. but that is a considerable amount of money to save. I don't have any existing axles from the 914 or the Legacy. If I can get them from Ian I wouldn't be opposed either since they're already built to fit with his cradle.

Posted by: Porscharu914 May 8 2014, 04:46 PM

Brake rotors just showed up like I mentioned previously Pelican is out of brake pads. Everything I can tell the pads are the same for front and rear????

Posted by: Porscharu914 May 17 2014, 04:11 PM

Fuel cell from Rhodes Racing, fans and legacy radiator mocked up. [attachmentid=451474]Also installed the windshield today

Posted by: Porscharu914 May 17 2014, 04:15 PM

Sorry here's fuel cell fans and radiator. Also I only paid $110 for the windshield, brand new.


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