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Posted by: SirAndy Oct 11 2004, 12:25 PM

anyone know what happened to this car?

Ex-Max & Moritz car #69, condagreen (like all MM cars), sold to the US somewhere after 1975.
VIN: 914 143 0178

raced in 1971 by "Quist/Göring/Krumm" for the MM Team
raced 1972-73 by "Eckhard Schimpf"
raced 1974-75 by "Laub"

thank you very much, Andy


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Posted by: SirAndy Oct 11 2004, 12:30 PM

the car should look similar to this today ...


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Posted by: SirAndy Oct 11 2004, 12:35 PM

nope ...

he only has a few (b/w) pictures of this car and a lot of the MM #19 on his site,
but no info on who, when or where the car is today.

Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Oct 11 2004, 12:38 PM

i'm hoping someone actually knows something about the car. after all, when it was sold to the US, it had a lot of racing history under it's belt (63 confirmed races between '71 and '75) and as a ex-MM car should have gotten a lot of attention. someone must have seen this car after 1975 and/or know where it is today ...

Andy

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 11 2004, 12:45 PM

Someone chopped it into a slantnose and added a subaru motor but never finished it so its been rotting in their driveway for 10 years.....

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 11 2004, 01:01 PM

It could be out here in the McCaw's (Cellular One fame) collection of old race cars. Who knows what cars they have other than they drag em out a couple of times a year for historic races. (love that 917!)

Geoff

Posted by: Gustl Oct 11 2004, 01:02 PM

not sure if this helps, but take a look at:
http://fly.hiwaay.net/~jonlowe/MeaneyGT.html
http://www.stazak.com/914/gt/photo6/photo6.html
http://fly.hiwaay.net/~jonlowe/

you might ask at the "Porsche Center Neckar-Alb", home of the Max Moritz Team?
eMail: info@porsche-reutlingen.de

So long,
Gustl

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 11 2004, 01:05 PM

cuz if you did someone would pop up calling you a "thief" on the internet....spreading lies.

Geoff

Posted by: SirAndy Oct 11 2004, 01:10 PM

yeah, i have seen all those links and pictures. the car #19 (and #18) are different cars tho ...

and i don't think MM knows what happened to the car after '75, after all, they sold it in '72 to Schimpf ...

Andy

Posted by: Lawrence Oct 11 2004, 01:31 PM

Have you called PCA or PCNA with the VIN?

-Rusty

Posted by: SirAndy Oct 11 2004, 01:35 PM

they have a phone number???

Andy

Posted by: Gustl Oct 11 2004, 01:53 PM

PCNA's phone number should be 001-770-2903500
I called them in Feb 2001 ...
So long,
Gustl

Posted by: smg914 Oct 11 2004, 02:19 PM

I know that Claus Mueller here in Florida owns one of the Max Moritz GT's. I know that it needs a total restoration and is not for sale. He also owns the Walt Mass, Garretson Enterprises 914-6 that won the 1977 IMSA GTU title.

Posted by: SirAndy Oct 11 2004, 02:25 PM

hmmm, would it be possible to get the VIN# of that car ???
or, direct him to this thread?

Andy

Posted by: Mueller Oct 11 2004, 02:26 PM

Steve,

I was told that Claus owned the very last 914/6....supposedly built in '76 as a gift to him by the factory....every hear this before?

hmmmm, I need to find out if I'm related to him

Posted by: smg914 Oct 11 2004, 02:40 PM

Yeah, I could contact him. I'm friends with him and his wife. I know he travels over seas on business all the time. Claus is German and is very knowledgable on the 914-6 GT. Looking at some Max Moritz Racing Team paperwork that Claus gave me, it talks about VIN # 9141430178. I think that might be the car Claus owns. Hmmmm, that's the car you were asking about.

Posted by: smg914 Oct 11 2004, 02:50 PM

No, I don't think that is true. At least not the Claus Mueller I know.

Posted by: SirAndy Oct 11 2004, 04:00 PM

woha, that would be a find !!!

Andy

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 11 2004, 04:06 PM

the last six


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Posted by: SirAndy Oct 11 2004, 04:11 PM

"The Book" says it (the last 914-6) was build by porsche for a customer in '75 ...

Andy

Posted by: skline Oct 11 2004, 05:07 PM

I heard it was 75 and it was a 2.7 liter in a silver car with the big bumpers.

Posted by: smg914 Oct 11 2004, 06:08 PM

I just talked to Claus and sure enough he does own the Max Moritz 9141430178 car. He's had it for about 10 years now. It was originally green but is currently red. Still has traces of green on it. It is currently being restored to the way it was originally.

On the last 914-6 built in '76. Claus is aware of the car you are talking about but it was Klaus Mueller not Claus Mueller that was given the car. And it was the 914-6 that was made into a 916 in the early 80's at a factory across the street from the Porsche factory. The car is still here in Florida.

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 11 2004, 06:13 PM

Too bad as it looks badass as a 76GT. Maybe they will restore it instead of it being a "916 Clone" as its uniqueness as the "last six" is what makes it cool.
I love the trick LE spoiler blending into the flares...
Geoff

Posted by: SirAndy Oct 11 2004, 06:59 PM

cool!

i got a friend in germany who has researched this car (among others) for years and has a extensive library of documents, photos and interviews on the car.
in fact, he just talked to "Mr. Laub" today about the car, Laub is the last guy who raced the car in germany!
he asked me if i knew who owned the car today.

that is sooooo cool!
btw. this is also the car that our very own club-members Paul & Nanci GT-Replica is based on!
the car was run from '72-'73 by "Eckhard Schimpf" as a orange/green "Jägermeister" GT (he used the numbers #77 and #78) ...

i would love to hook up Claus and my german friend Nikolaus so they can exchange information about the car!
Andy

Posted by: smg914 Oct 11 2004, 07:34 PM

I would be surprised if Mr. Laub and Claus Meuller didn't know each other. Claus spends a lot of his time in Germany. He too has done extensive research on the Max Moritz cars including #0178. Claus has a ton of documentation on these cars.

Posted by: smg914 Oct 11 2004, 07:47 PM

Andy,

I sent Claus's girlfriend a copy of your last post about Mr. Laub. Claus doesn't have or use a computer. So we won't be able to get him on the 914club website. Maybe the next time Claus goes to Germany, he can hook up with Nikolaus.

Posted by: VegasRacer Oct 11 2004, 09:34 PM

Heck. I've got one of those.
Doesn't everybody?


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Posted by: seanery Oct 11 2004, 09:47 PM

Posted by: SirAndy Oct 11 2004, 10:03 PM

very cool! just to clarify, Mr Laub and Nikolaus are not the same person ...

Andy

Posted by: smg914 Oct 11 2004, 10:08 PM

quote: very cool! just to clarify, Mr Laub and Nikolaus are not the same person.

I understand.........

Posted by: SirAndy Oct 11 2004, 10:14 PM

last time i talked to Nikolaus (this morning) he said he has 63 confirmed races for that car, a few more he's trying to verify. he has talked in person to all of the german drivers that owned/raced the car. he has 100s of pictures and all kinds of other stuff,
so, yes, i think he could be very helpful in Claus's effort to restore the car to it's former glory!

ahh, the power of a global network, how small this planet has become ...
Andy

PS: look at the time i posted this!

Posted by: seanery Oct 12 2004, 07:36 AM

big deal it was 11:14

Posted by: Stutgart46 Oct 12 2004, 07:55 AM

Steve,
What was the history of this car? Where did it race? How well did it do?

Posted by: smg914 Oct 12 2004, 09:48 AM

I have some documentation on 9141430178 but it is all written in German. From what I can understand, Dietrich Krumm and Gerd F. Quist were two of the people that raced this car. They raced the car at Spa the Nurburgring and LeMans to name a few. It also says it raced in the Porsche Cup in 1971.

Posted by: URY914 Oct 12 2004, 06:31 PM

Steve,
Is this Claus?


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Posted by: URY914 Oct 12 2004, 06:32 PM

This is the Walt Maas 1977 GTU car.


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Posted by: URY914 Oct 12 2004, 06:33 PM

xx


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Posted by: URY914 Oct 12 2004, 06:33 PM

tt


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Posted by: URY914 Oct 12 2004, 06:34 PM

Mid Ohio 1977


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Posted by: URY914 Oct 12 2004, 06:34 PM

rr


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Posted by: URY914 Oct 12 2004, 06:35 PM

rr


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Posted by: URY914 Oct 12 2004, 06:35 PM

14


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Posted by: smg914 Oct 12 2004, 08:14 PM

quote from Paul: Steve, Is this Claus?

That's him.

Posted by: SirAndy Oct 12 2004, 09:09 PM

looks like Mr. Laub does not know Claus, but he is very interested in talking to him!

Steve, i would like to give you Nikolaus's email address as he is the driving force behind all this research and a wealth of knowledge about GT's in general.
It would be very cool if you could get him and Claus in touch.
Nikolaus does not speak english very well and i'm sure he's glad that the current owner speaks german.

please let me know if that is ok with you,
Andy

Posted by: smg914 Oct 12 2004, 09:48 PM

Absolutely Andy. Send it to me in a PM and I will personally give it to Claus.

Posted by: carr914 Oct 13 2004, 08:01 AM

Steve, you talked about the 914-6 that was converted to a 916 and that is still in Florida. Didn't Claus own that one too? I've tried finding it after the bank seized it in Naples and I came up empty. What do you know? Bob Snodgras told me that he did not get the 916 when he got the 2 semi's of parts and he didn't have an interest. The trail turned cold for me after that.
T.C.

Posted by: smg914 Oct 13 2004, 09:34 AM

No, Claus never did own the blue 916 that was built in the early 80's in Germany. Claus and I have been trying to find the car too. We are aware of the situation you described and haven't had any luck either. However, I have a strong lead that I'm pursuing.

Posted by: URY914 Oct 13 2004, 09:40 AM

The plot thicken's...

I heard Jimmy Hoffa bought it.

P

Posted by: Scott Schroeder Oct 13 2004, 10:17 AM

Are you referring to the car that the Porsche employee converted to a 916 using all original parts (but it retained the removable roof)? I saw that particular car in a Porsche book - but I thought it was white....

Posted by: smg914 Oct 13 2004, 12:53 PM

I think it very well may be the car your referring to. I know they used every 916 part they could find on the shelf at Porsche to create this car and there is a stack of documentation related to it. I remember when it was first offered for sale here quite a few years ago, most of us didn't want it because we didn't believe the story. But I can tell you as time passes, this car has become more and more interesting and in fact just may be a very cool car to own. To be honest with you, I don't know if there was a color change on this car. All I know is that it is now a medium dark metallic blue.

Posted by: smg914 Oct 13 2004, 01:42 PM

Andy,

I got your email. I'll contact Claus today.
Thanks for helping getting these two guys together.
I look forward to hearing about what they learn from each other.

Posted by: nein14 Oct 13 2004, 01:42 PM

The green Mortiz GT that apears on the John Lowe GT website is now owned by a gentleman in Pa. He has owned it for a couple of years, he attends Hershey Swap meet and brings the car and displays it.

We also have another GT race car at Hershey every year , Gary Wiggleworth's Sunoco GT which is also featured on John Lowes website.

Being a Pa. resident has it's perks!

Posted by: carr914 Oct 13 2004, 04:56 PM

The 914-6 to 916 that was here in Florida was blue exterior with navy blue leather interior. I have driven this car at Sebring at least 6 times at 10/10s and it was awesome. The last time I saw the car was around Christmas last year and it was completely disassembled, paint was stripped down to metal, sat under an oak tree and starting to rust. I was offered the car @ $25,000 and thought it was too high given the present condition of the car and the question of the whereabouts of all the parts. I made an offer that was turned downed and then it was seized at an assessed amount of around $5,000. What a shame, I know I would have given it a great home. I think Bob Snodgras probably has most of the 916 parts as Brumos cleaned out the parts inventory of the shop this car was residing at .
T.C.

Posted by: smg914 Oct 13 2004, 05:31 PM

Dam, I think I'm going to cry. Thanks TC for sharing that story. It's a real shame this car ended up like this. The last time I saw it was just after the guy in Naples had it restored and it looked beautiful. That was probably back in 1996. I can't believe it deteriorated to the point where it was sitting under a tree rusting and that someone else now owns most of the original 916 parts from the car. That's sick!!!!!!!!

Posted by: URY914 Oct 13 2004, 07:02 PM

I've seen this car at Sebring before. It was also in a VW&PORSCHE article back in the early '80's. I know you have a copy of the issue Steve.

I'll dig up a picture of it.

Posted by: drronh Aug 2 2011, 09:24 AM

I know this is an old thread, but I am a Porsche collector and live in Naples. I bought this car in June of 2004. My bank repossessed the assets of a Prosche shop, including six Porsches. I bought all the assets from the bank. I moved the car to my climate controlled shop, along with all the parts. I have all the documentation of the 916 conversion done in 1981, including letters from the factory. I have a lot of restoration projects underway, and hope to get around to this one in a few years. If anyone has any more information about this car, period pictures, etc, I would appreciate hearing from you.

Posted by: gms Aug 2 2011, 09:39 AM

Are you referring to this car?



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Posted by: drronh Aug 2 2011, 09:55 AM

I don't think the car was ever silver, but I could be wrong. The photos I have show the car in dark blue.

Posted by: gms Aug 2 2011, 10:00 AM

Do you have a VIN?

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 2 2011, 10:01 AM

Post the vin# There are some guys here that forgot more about these cars than most of us will ever know.

Oh, and

Also post a couple photos to tease us.

Posted by: Vysoc Aug 2 2011, 10:24 AM

I am a member of the Everglades PCA in the Naples area and have had conversations with Dr. Ron as he mentioned that he had a 916, I thought it odd as there were only what 11.
I brought him pictures of the white one done with parts bin pieces that is published in the Porsche Legends Book, or something like that, he said his was blue.
Dr. Ron has spoken of this car many times.


Vysoc

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 2 2011, 11:07 AM

If memory serves correctly, the dark blue 916 was sold to a Dr. about 8 years ago?
There is a thread about that here somewhere ...

Posted by: Gustl Aug 2 2011, 11:19 AM

the dark blue 916 was painted gemini blue metallic very early - somewhen about 1972 - because the 1st owner didn't like the dark blue

the metallic blue 916 - 1st owner Dr. Michael Piech - always stayed in Europe

Posted by: carr914 Aug 2 2011, 11:20 AM

I knew from Larry ( Former Owner of the Car & Shop) that the car was still in Naples but I didn't know who had it. Larry now has another shop.

Glad that you retrieved all the Parts and 30+ Pages of Factory docs

As I said I have driven this car many times @ Sebring with both the Original S motor and the 3.0 that Larry put in. As far as I know it was never Silver.

I have some pictures from Sebring and the Advertisement from when Larry bought that are on my Home Computer that I will Post later

T.C..

Posted by: carr914 Aug 2 2011, 11:23 AM

Glenn, I think that one is the 916 Clone that Brumos Built - it is now in Las Vegas

Posted by: carr914 Aug 2 2011, 11:27 AM

Pete, Dr Ron's car that we are talking about is what I always referred to as the "12th" 916. It was an Original -6 that was owned by a Porsche Employee. He took it back into the Factory and they used Real 916 parts to re-make the car. It does Not have a Steel Roof though.

T.C.

Posted by: Gustl Aug 2 2011, 12:03 PM

I guess you're talking about this one:



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Posted by: carr914 Aug 2 2011, 12:22 PM

That's the One !

Posted by: drronh Aug 2 2011, 12:28 PM

Yes that is definitely my car- I have the yellow fog lights, and I recognize the leather covered roll cage. I don't have the VIN with me here at the office, but I will get it from my files and post it.

Posted by: Vysoc Aug 2 2011, 12:44 PM

Hey Dr. Ron,

What a beautiful car would love to see it sometime, see you on the second Wednesday of the month group.

Vysoc / Peter Beringer

Posted by: r_towle Aug 2 2011, 12:45 PM

Very cool that these cars have not gotten lost and they have new caretakers to bring them back up to snuff.

If anyone happens to find a significant 914 that might be for sale and needs restoration, I might be up for that level of effort if the car has some pedigree.

Rich

Posted by: JmuRiz Aug 2 2011, 01:22 PM

Cool, I'd love to see pictures of it...especially stuff like the roll-bar (I'm guessing that was done when the factory mods were made since it didn't have the metal roof).

Posted by: carr914 Aug 2 2011, 01:50 PM

The Interior was really cool, especially the Matching Leather Covering on the Roll Bar

Posted by: Gustl Aug 2 2011, 02:36 PM

let me help you - it's 9140431304

Posted by: carr914 Aug 2 2011, 05:51 PM

Gustl posted the pictures I have, but here is the 1997 Ad from Panarama



So the latest owners were

Bruce Berlinger
Larry Hinnant
ME - almost LOL
Dr Ron

Posted by: Vysoc Aug 2 2011, 07:25 PM

This fine specimen is in the very capable hands/control of Dr. Ron.
This car must feel like it won the lottery, I can't wait to see what the restoration will look like when complete as this Doctor know's all about the history that is Porsche.

Great people taking care of great cars!!!!!

Vysoc, Peter Beringer

PS: If I add an "L" after the first "R" in my last name can I join the former owner's?............Nevermind.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 2 2011, 08:01 PM

This is one gifted thread.

Very cool. Welcome Doc.

I've never seen a Prussian Blue 914 but my 911 is Prussian Blue.