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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Best Exhaust???
Posted by: dmenche914 Oct 16 2004, 10:29 AM
I have a 2.0 liter motor, believe to be stock configuration, 73 or 74 model year D-Jet)
I have two options of exhaust systems available to me. What would be best of these two options? Also reason(s) why one option is better or not. What do you all know?
option 1..... Stainless steel 1.7/1.8 heat exchangers (the ones that kick upwards prior to the muffler) along with an aftermarket bursch pipes and muffler.
option 2..... Stainless steel 2.0 heat exchangers (the ones that go straingt into the muffler) and a stock 73/74 2.0 liter Muffler.
The Bursche pipes and muffler weight is 15 lbs, the big rounded stock 2.0 muffler wieght is 24 lbs. There is no significant weight difference betweent he heat exchangers.
The Bursch pipes are a 4 into 2 into 1 system. (as opposed to 4 into 1 system).
So what is the best choice in this application? Trade offs? and why?
thanks for your inputs!
dave
Posted by: SirAndy Oct 16 2004, 11:14 AM
option 1 ...
the difference between the 1.8 and 2.0 SS HEs is minimal, if they're SSIs and the bursch flows much better than the original muffler,
so, i vote for option 1!
Andy
Posted by: Mueller Oct 16 2004, 11:27 AM
so, i vote for option 1!
much better??? didn't Grassroots do a dyno comparison? I thought they said the stock muffler was better than the Bursch????
Posted by: dmenche914 Oct 16 2004, 11:56 AM
Oh, Oh Two respected knowledgable 914'ers and two different opinions. Now I'm more confused!!!!
Maybe each is much better at different rpms???
Yes, I would think the small difference in SS heat exch. bend would make zilch flow difference between the heat exch. types.
So it should come down to flow difference between the post heat exch. pipes/muffler. At least the Busch is 9 lbs less hanging out back than the stock 2.0 muffler.
Anyone got a link to flow data, or have done a conversion so you have seat of the pants data?
Thanks.
dave
Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 16 2004, 01:02 PM
the 2.0 willl give you at least 1 other option with regards to exhaust systems.
kevin
Posted by: anthony Oct 16 2004, 01:16 PM
I've heard in the past that the Bursch just moves the torque/hp curve a little forward towards higher rpms. The difference is minor.
Posted by: SirAndy Oct 16 2004, 01:22 PM
that is partially correct ...
a more free flowing exhaust will move the torque/hp curve towards higher rpms.
but it will also increase the peak torque/hp at the same time.
you will lose some low-rpm torque/hp and gain more torque/hp at slightly higher rpms ...
plus, the bursch sounds better than the stock exhaust!
Andy
Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 16 2004, 01:25 PM
Wrong! the tests showed a 1hp gain at mid rpms with a loss at higher rpms over the stock 2.0l banana muffler.
Best is the 2.0l SSI exchangers and a stock muffler OEM. For sound use the Bursch as it sounds cool and costs less.
Geoff
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Oct 16 2004, 01:29 PM
I think you should go with the one that sounds the best.
Cheers, Elliot
Posted by: Rog914 Oct 16 2004, 01:39 PM
I've the "Triad" muffler on my 2.0 & like it better than any of the other.
Ralph
74 2.0
Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 16 2004, 02:03 PM
that's the "at least 1 other option". off to dave's to put on some carbs.
kevin
Posted by: SirAndy Oct 16 2004, 02:17 PM
where is the data ?
i thought they tested a /6 setup?
Andy
Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 16 2004, 03:20 PM
I don't have that Grassroots mag handy as its stored do to the last effin move.
They dyno tested:
Stock OEM muffler
Bursch(same as stock)
CFR header (best)
That four tip muffler (lost hp)
Posted by: RustyWa Oct 16 2004, 04:23 PM
They dyno tested:
Stock OEM muffler
Bursch(same as stock)
CFR header (best)
That four tip muffler (lost hp)
To the rescue!
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Posted by: Joe.D Oct 16 2004, 06:15 PM
Just my humble opinion....FWIW.
I have a new Bursch on a 1.8 L-jet and I think its too damned noisy. Even my hard of hearing old neigbor has commented that he has looked outside for the delivery truck when I go by (ouch!) . I just don't enjoy the constant low "drone" at highway speeds with the roof off.
But then, I'm not racing, or even AX. Just daily driver. With what I know now, I wish I'd gone for a stock one, but the money's been spent. Live and learn...
Joe.
Posted by: jd74914 Oct 16 2004, 07:09 PM
I have to say I've heard the CFR muffler (by CFR you mean the tangerine racing stuff), and know Chris Folley and it sounds awesome. The craftmanship also is great 
. I wish I had enough ($$$) to buy one 
.
On the question though, my Bursch sounds really good
Posted by: dflesburg Oct 16 2004, 07:14 PM
My favorite exhaust was always the Thunderbird exhaust system with the tuned mid pipe.
Wish I could find an old one so I could have it copied.
Posted by: MarkV Oct 16 2004, 09:52 PM
I replaced my Bursch with a stock 2 liter banana.
The Bursh was annoying loud. I set off car alarms in the mall parking lot.
The stock banana muffler seems to make better low to mid range torque.
Posted by: dmenche914 Oct 16 2004, 10:30 PM
i had the Bursch system on my 1.7 engine, liked the sound, and the fact i could set off car alarms with it!
Looks like the difference is minimal with the Bursch, the sound was ok by me, I am leaning towards the Bursch, also, as it is 9 lbs lighter also.
Posted by: Joe Ricard Oct 17 2004, 06:08 AM
Well depending on which SSI model you have. You need the matching Muffler. 1.7 1.8 use the same muffler stock and Bursch. 2.0L with the straight SSI requires 2.0L Muffler stock for tooling around town probably better. Anything over 4000 RPM and Bursch, Herry Hunter Header, or CFR Header are where the power and of course noise is.
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Oct 17 2004, 06:01 PM
dflesburg-- Thunderbird (Ermie Emerso Ent.) was purchased a couple years back by Pertronix (ign. people). They now call the exhaust Patriot brand. Do a search in SoCal and you may get lucky finding that old muffler !
Posted by: tracks914 Oct 17 2004, 06:44 PM
What about the Monza (4 out the back) muffler. They look cool but how do they measure up?
How do they sound?
Tx
Posted by: 73p914 Oct 17 2004, 10:19 PM
well i have a 1.8 liter and was considering an ansa exhaust because i like the sound but is it gonna help or harm hp???? 
Posted by: tracks914 Oct 18 2004, 05:03 PM
I placed a bit on a Monza muffler on Ebay. If I get it cool. I just want to see what it sounds like. 4 in and 4 out must sound different than my stock VW sound. And since mine is rusting out, all the better to get a cheap one than to fork out $300 and not like the noise it makes. I'm not interested in HP increase just a deeper throatier sound.
The shipping up here could hurt but hey.............all part of the game.
Posted by: Aaron Cox Oct 18 2004, 05:04 PM
The shipping up here could hurt but hey.............all part of the game.
youd be very happy witha bursch ...
im still in the design stage of this
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Posted by: tracks914 Oct 18 2004, 05:07 PM
youd be very happy witha bursch ...
But what does a monza sound like?
Posted by: Aaron Cox Oct 18 2004, 05:08 PM
youd be very happy witha bursch ...
But what does a monza sound like?
loud, obnoxious, and like your dragging chains..... or like a t1
Posted by: rdauenhauer Oct 18 2004, 05:10 PM
It wont matter itll rust off the car in a week
Posted by: brownaar Oct 18 2004, 07:29 PM
I replaced my rusted-out Bursch on my 73 2.0 with the stainless muffler from Mittelmotor. It has a nice mellow sound. I don't know about horsepower but suspect it is similar to stock as the design is similar. The price was more than Bursch, Monza, etc. but less than stock OEM at about $600(muffler+shipping). They were pretty quick, too. I think I had mine in about two weeks.
Aaron
Posted by: tracks914 Oct 18 2004, 08:40 PM
?????????? chains?
Posted by: Mueller Oct 18 2004, 11:09 PM
here is the best "muffler" for your car 
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Posted by: tracks914 Oct 19 2004, 05:09 PM
Oh well, I low balled it and didn't win it anyway.
Back to working on my "stock type" SS muffler.
By the way, anyone ever seen the holes on the inside of a stock muffler. No wonder they don't breath very well.
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