Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Headrage Oct 17 2004, 09:08 AM

Getting ready to buy a new cam so the motor can go back together. I'm going to replace it with a stock grind but was wondering about the difference in where you buy them from. Pelican has a stock webcam for $130.00, GPR sells an aftermarket or reground cam (their words) for $63.00. Differences? Recommendations? Thanks.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Oct 17 2004, 09:16 AM

Having seen numerous failures of various supplier's reground cams and lifters over the years, I've settled on new cams and matching lifters from WebCam. The Cap'n

Posted by: seanery Oct 17 2004, 09:17 AM

A cam can do lots to liven an engine.
I would ask Jake, Brad & others what they reccomend.
Are you keeping the stock injection? Exhaust, etc...?

Posted by: Headrage Oct 17 2004, 09:27 AM

Yes, everything will remain stock other than new euro spec P/C's.

Posted by: Mueller Oct 17 2004, 09:36 AM

I'd offer Jake some sort of bribe and see if you could get a cam and lifters from him....even if it costs $50 or more than the vendors listed, it'll be well worth it......

Posted by: Type 4 Oct 17 2004, 05:39 PM

You will also need the webcam lifters they sell them for $142 so you are looking at $272 not $130.

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 17 2004, 08:21 PM

Sure, I'll sell ya a cam..

Its not 50 bucks more either, really about 20 bucks more.. BUT, it's kick ass!

Posted by: Headrage Oct 18 2004, 10:22 AM

Jake, will it work with my stock FI system? Is it install and go? I'm interested to learm more.

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 18 2004, 10:31 AM

Yes,
I have several cams that are stock FI compatible. These are actually made just for the system..

I own 43 cam grinds at web that are not in their catalog. I have a cam for any application, but need to know engine specifics before I can choose one for you.

Posted by: Headrage Oct 18 2004, 11:39 AM

Just let me know the info you need and I will provide it.

Posted by: Mueller Oct 18 2004, 11:49 AM

i'm guessing he wants to know:


motor size (bore and stroke if not stock), compression ratio, details on the heads, fuel injection used (not sure if he has a different cam for D-jet and L-jet) and intended use of the car....daily driver, auto-x'r only, track or ?????

I'm guessing you need this car as a daily driver....

Posted by: Headrage Oct 18 2004, 12:02 PM

It's a stock '76 2.0 w/d-jet. Euro P/C's. Don't know what the compression ratio is. Heads, crank, rods, and cases are still at Rimco. Occasional driver.

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 18 2004, 01:06 PM

Valve sizes? Port work? Compression ratio? Gearing? Altitude/elevation??

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 18 2004, 02:04 PM

How about for a 96mm p&c's, 8.2to1 comp, valves are 42x38 ported heads, stockish gearing, sealevel, Djet FI also. Has dyno'd 95 rear wheel hp.

Geoff

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 18 2004, 09:04 PM

Oh comeon Jake, help a brother out!

Geoff™

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 18 2004, 09:15 PM

If you have 95HP now, you don't need any help, thats damn good.....

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 18 2004, 10:07 PM

shit, I was trying for 100hp and 500revs of power before it drops off.

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 18 2004, 11:28 PM

What cam does it have now??

Posted by: Mueller Oct 18 2004, 11:33 PM

Jake, just for $hits and giggles, do you have a recommended camshaft for a bone stock 1.8 that is to have a small turbocharger installed for daily use??

how much would it cost for parts to split a case to replace a cam? Would it be okay to re-use the crank and cam bearings?

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 19 2004, 07:18 AM

Stock cam Jake. Idles like a kitten. Running SSI he's with a bursch as I have heat.

Thinking about raising the compression ratio.
Thinking about those squisy pistons
Thinking about more duration on the exhaust.
Geoff™

engines coming apart soon to fix whatever I broke overreving it

Posted by: DNHunt Oct 19 2004, 07:28 AM

Jake

Geoff's the guy that figured out the firing order problem I had. He's bailed me out several times. Don't do too much for him though, I want to smoke his ass.

Dave

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 19 2004, 08:28 AM

If it has a stock cam, even though it has alot of power it is probably in a very narow band...

Adding a camshaft with a tad more compression will give better results...

I tested the Squishy pistons and they failed my testing....

I really think that you had good weather at that dyno the day you went! Not to take away from your engine but most of the time we barely see 100HP from that combo at the flywheel!

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 19 2004, 09:17 AM

I have dyno'd that engine 3 times over a couple of years. Consistant 90-92hp on a roller dyno with one day hitting 95hp after doing a tuneup, valve adjustment, no aircleaner etc.

Most 2.0l barely hit 80hp on that roller dyno btw.

Just looking to have a flatter hp curve across a higher rpm range witha few more revs.

I'll look for a dyno chart.
What compression ratio you talking about? As I think I'll have to stick in new pistons as these might be toast.
This might be the time for me to go to Megasquirt if I go to a hotter cam. Wait I don't want a hotter cam I want something that keeps things cool! but more hp.

Geoff

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 19 2004, 09:23 AM

The cam I would think about for you has 800 more revs of power and a flatter curve..

It has split lift and split duration and the intake profile is from a Honda motorcycle and exhaust is from a Chrysler Hemi....... its a great cam.

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 19 2004, 09:33 AM

Ok, I'll order it from you. Do I need to call you ? I guess I'll have to go with the ceramic lifters too unless you have worked out the replacement steel ones.
Here is one of the dyno run charts.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 19 2004, 09:52 AM

Are you going to leave the engine alone otherwise??? Just add CR??

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 19 2004, 10:04 AM

New 96mm P&C's, new cam and lifters, same ported heads but maybe better valve springs plus any other suggestions.
Gonna stay with either djet or go to Megasquirt FI as I hate carbs in Seattle. BTDT

Geoff

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 19 2004, 10:16 AM

Cool, so you want to go with ceramic lifters??

Posted by: seanery Oct 19 2004, 10:17 AM

Geoff,
get your butt over to the FFC, LN Engineering has donated a set of Ceramic Lifters!

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 19 2004, 10:30 AM

And they are SUPER hard to find right now! We are hurting for them to keep our schedule up..

Posted by: URY914 Oct 19 2004, 11:14 AM

I don't you to give out any trade secrets but who is making the lifters?
It must be a small specility shop right?

LN can't be doing these in house.

Paul

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 19 2004, 11:22 AM

Joe Schubeck makes them, actually he farms some of out to someone else that we cannot figure out..

Posted by: Bleyseng Oct 19 2004, 02:10 PM

Yes, I want to go with ceramic lifters.
I can't fly back to the FFC, no time due to work. (hehe I do work sometimes)
I am setting up a trip for New Years in Suriname thou.
Guess I better get on the list., Jake.

Geoff

Posted by: kwales Oct 19 2004, 06:12 PM

Coors is one of the big US ceramic companies. Mebbe they make the lifters.

They make ceramic filters for their beer and ceramic parts for other folks - which is how they got into the business.

They injection mold the ceramic (like plastic) and then fire it. Had them make some parts for me once from a prototype plastic tool.

Parts came back at 40% mold original size.

Ceramics shrink like a bitch when fired. A lot more than metal injection molded parts (MIM) .

Spent some time talking with a Japanese company and they talked about a grinding process to get phenominal (SP?) tight tolerances. Had a rod in a lifter sized cylinder that was ( if my memory serves) about a half a thou clearance. Got their literature somewhere.

Ken

Posted by: Mueller Oct 19 2004, 06:31 PM

getting the lifters manufactured is not a big deal, it's meeting the minimum quantity

I'd bet money it's this company that is making them for Schubeck:

http://www.ceradyne.com/Products/Automotive.asp


Kyocera also makes silicon nitride lifters for industrial uses..........

Posted by: Mueller Oct 19 2004, 06:36 PM

from a Ceradyne sales page:


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Mueller Oct 20 2004, 11:01 AM

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 20 2004, 11:03 AM

Already checked into that place.... Thats not who is doing them for Schubeck..

They require an order so big that we could never meet it.

Posted by: Mueller Oct 20 2004, 11:11 AM

want me to look into a few companies that we use for ceramics??

I don;t have a lifter here at work, but it wouldn't be hard to just draw up a preliminary drawing for an RFQ.

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 20 2004, 11:14 AM

Sure, keep looking!

Its definately somewhere in California- we know that!

My new "Pro Extreme lifter" will be done in a few eeks for testing. It has a steel body and a rotating ceramic foot and allos valve events almost as fast as a full roller arrangement!