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Posted by: carr914 Sep 1 2012, 04:53 PM

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/sportscar-alms-grand-am-finalizing-merger/

Too much division to come to an end - I'm glad to see it before one went under.

I wondered what was happening when I read that the Circuit of the Americas was negotiating for the US FIA Race that typically has been held at Sebring (& Petit). The fact that a P1 Car wasn't even in the picture at the end of todays race in Baltimore tells the story that small fields & competition in Sports Cars had deluted the landscape

T.C.

Posted by: Zimms Sep 2 2012, 02:02 PM

I agree. I don't think there is enough sponsorship to keep 2 series going. ALMS has a sorry P1 field, but the GT racing is great. I hope this does not get screwed up in the merger. I like the factory GTE cars.

We will see. The official announcement is Wednesday.

Posted by: carr914 Sep 2 2012, 04:32 PM

What I would like to see;

A True Prototype Class ( Doubtful though as the FIA will kill it)

Daytona Prototypes ( Up the Power)

The GT Class as it exists in ALMS

A GTC Class ( The Grand-Am Class plus the ALMS GTCs)

The Alternative Fuel Class that Grand-Am is bringing in.


The downsides are that this Merger is not supposed to happen til 2014. That is when the New FIA LeMans Rules go into effect.

And that means Racing could really Suck in 2013 - who is going to Invest $$ when it could change a year later?

Posted by: Rleog Sep 2 2012, 06:42 PM

So what do you think after reading this:

http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/

Posted by: damesandhotrods Sep 2 2012, 07:29 PM

I don’t see any way this can be good. Getting closer to NASCAR and Murdoch is just playing poker with the devil. The ALMS rules are worked out with the ACO, the second that you alter the ALMS rules you are no longer eligible for Le Mans, which brings you back to being just Grand Am. I don’t see much of a future for an American centric endurance series based on Daytona and Sebring.

And why isn’t P-1 a prototype class?

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Sep 2 2012, 07:57 PM

I'd love to see sports car racing televised again. I know you can find it online, but it's silly not to have it televised.

Posted by: carr914 Sep 2 2012, 08:03 PM

Good Article!

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Sep 3 2012, 06:23 AM

This whole thing is a sandwich. I heard about rumors of this from a couple friends I have who work for the ALMS about 2 weeks ago. In addition, they also said that it would not be a "merger." That also explains why Scott Atherton said he had not heard of such a deal taking place, because there was none. NASCAR is buying out the ALMS, which means its also buying out the nature and character of its racing. Say goodbye to the access to paddock, the pre-race gridwalks, the technology, and I believe, even the great racing. I know in my heart that it was eventually going to happen, just like it has throughout sportscar racing history. But it doesn't mean I have to like it.

Posted by: seanery Sep 3 2012, 06:33 AM

ALMS is on ABC, I watched the Baltimore race yesterday. Grand Am is on Speed...

Posted by: ellisor3 Sep 3 2012, 07:03 AM

With NASCAR attendance and interest sinking, I see the ALMS and Grand-Am merger/takeover as potentially a positive, IF they continue to do the things that make it popular. What makes it popular is that the fans have access and direct connection to the teams, prices are reasonable and you have lots of choices of races. NASCAR used to be the grass roots of American Racing, Grand Am and ALMS now hold that title becasue of the access the fans have to the product. Don't screw with that.

I could see the new series replace either the truck tour or Nationwide series.

This could mean more TV coverage, and a more stable product. The negatives are that smaller teams will have a very hard time competing because more money will flow into one series.

I am not sure what they are going to do with P1, will be strange to see P1 and DP on the same track.

Posted by: carr914 Sep 3 2012, 08:41 AM

But the ALMS is not Live - that was taped & shown the Day After

Posted by: carr914 Sep 3 2012, 08:50 AM

I hate to see the Technology of Prototypes go away, but here in America there was No Manufacturer Involvement & Tiny Fields.

In P1;
Mazda is on the Dyson on the Car, but in name only. It's a Lola Chassis (now Bankrupt) ans an AER Motor
Muscle Milk is a Acura/Honda that was designed years ago

P2
Scott Tuckers Ill-Gotten Gains Level5 Team poured into another pair of Acura/Honda

PC - all Spec Racers - Oreca Chassis/Chevy Motors

if it wasn't for the Superb GT Racing, ALMS would have died after the 07 Season when you had Audi, Peugeot, Porsche, Acura, Mazda & Independants in Prototypes

Posted by: Rleog Sep 3 2012, 09:29 AM

http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/

According to this article, Grand-Am (NASCAR) buys ALMS and Panoz's tracks (Atlanta and Sebring), effective 2014. For 2013, if there is an ALMS season, it will likely have no P1 class: Lola is bankrupt and Dyson can barely get enough parts to finish this season. Muscle Milk, with one year remaining on their contract with the Wirth chassis/Honda engined HPD, probably won't run without competition. As TC said above, the glue holding ALMS together after Sebring, for the past several years, has been the GT class.

There'll be much said Wednesday at the Daytona press conference, and a lot a speculation about what's left unsaid.

Posted by: ellisor3 Sep 3 2012, 09:41 AM

It is inevitable that some classes will go away, but reducing the classes hopefully will bring additional team money from Europe to this series. Right now there are too many classes between ALMS and Grand Am to get the manufactures involved in American Racing, they have only one such series in Europe to focus on. I hope they will leave the GTC or something similar to allow smaller teams to stay in the sport. The ALMS was a faux series from exactly the points TC made anyway. Will be interesting to see how the new GX class will fit into this series.

Posted by: stuttgart46 Sep 3 2012, 10:22 AM

It's like sitting on pins and needles waiting to see how this is going to unfold. Let's hope for the best, like seeing a P1 going around Daytona for instance and less like seeing a DP at Sebring. Just my $.02

Posted by: damesandhotrods Sep 3 2012, 11:30 AM

European teams are not going to come to US to race. Peugeot and the rest of the teams are not selling anything in the US. Audi has won enough races here they don’t need to spend the money to race here; Le Mans is the jewel anyways. ALMS tanked because Porsche wouldn’t fill the grids with customer chassis. Porsche will not race against Audi. There was no one to pick up the slack which lead to small grids. Group C worked because everyone could buy a 962, WSC worked because everyone could buy 911GT1s.

Posted by: carr914 Sep 3 2012, 11:41 AM

A few Flaws in your argument;

Peugeot quit racing before this Racing Season even started

Audi has been on abbreviated schedule for a couple of years

Porsche does fill the Grids in ALMS. Flying Lizards, Team Falken, the Entire GTC Field, plus the Patron GT3 Cup Support Race Series. Back when the RS Spyder was around, they were available to Customer Teams, but were hugely expensive as the Teams had to pay for the Cars, Technical Staff, etc, that only the Deepest Pockets could afford ( Penske, Dyson, Muscle Milk & 2 Euro Teams).

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if the Economy wasn't in the Dumper

Posted by: Rleog Sep 3 2012, 02:20 PM

"Porsche will not race against Audi"

Porsche will be back at Le Mans, in P1, in 2014. It's likely Audi and Toyota will be there.

Posted by: carr914 Sep 3 2012, 04:04 PM

And Possibly Bentley

Posted by: Britain Smith Sep 3 2012, 06:54 PM

It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

-Britain

Posted by: Type 47 Sep 3 2012, 08:36 PM

But their drivers will...Euro sports car racing sucks comparied to ALMS GT racing

Posted by: ThinAir Sep 4 2012, 10:57 AM

This stinks. I stopped watching ALMS because the races were both boring and confusing - too many classes on the track at once to keep track of. I stopped watching F1 for similar reasons - the races are boring because there is so little chance to change positions.

I've really enjoyed the Rolex Grand-Am series and it has become the only races that I faithfully watch. I was already waring of GA's announcement of adding another class next year, and I'm afraid that such a merger will sink a great series.

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Sep 4 2012, 11:50 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIPEU65Nywk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDWzGEyzgd4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brNtbaMadX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys2am69Iu2c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bG2wvdGbCg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce9LIM9JSQM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua6kpasDf2s
.... and those were just 2010-2012.

Of course, there is always the 2007 Sebring finish as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjWo8VdMb8I

Posted by: URY914 Sep 4 2012, 12:41 PM

Yea, I read that sentence too and thought different.

Posted by: Rleog Sep 4 2012, 03:52 PM

More comments by owners and drivers:

http://www.racer.com/insight-sports-car-racing-at-the-crossroads/article/257462/

Posted by: seanery Sep 4 2012, 07:21 PM

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/grand-am-details-of-alms-unification-emerge/?weoitu

Posted by: Zimms Sep 5 2012, 07:19 AM

The Announcement will be streamed live @ 10 EST from Daytona. The link is here:

http://stream.speedtv.com/breaking-news

Posted by: dlestep Sep 5 2012, 08:50 AM

I gather, from your statement, that you don't enjoy LeMans. (Way too many different classes there).
Sounds like a NASCAR fan in denial. (Where all the cars are the same and there are no more than 3 turns, and easier to keep track of).

As far as F1, I think that it has over grown itself in all respects. It was far better when 1.5 litters was the base, and more relative, especially now.

Posted by: Zimms Sep 5 2012, 08:54 AM

Nothing groundbreaking. The details:

No new name yet

Class structure still being organized.

LM GTE will be retained as it's seen as the best of both series.

LMP1/P1 is dead.

The Delta Wing may be included somehow.

They have to work on a lot of the technical details such as tires (ALMS has many brands, GA is spec) and the GTs,

The premiere prototype class has a goal of being the best in the world.

They aim to keep the Le Mans relationship in some manner (Speculating, but most likely with GTE)

12 races in 2014 starting with Daytona and then Sebring.

Posted by: seanery Sep 5 2012, 08:59 AM

I could see some type of DP/P2 melding set to happen in a few years not to obsolete the new chassis in DP right away.

Posted by: carr914 Sep 5 2012, 09:01 AM

I optimisticly look for the 2 Groups to work together to get it "Right".

It was good to hear that they look for a Connection to the FIA/ACO and LeMans

The one downside is 2013 and that the fact the TV & Sponsors can't work together to make it happen quicker. 2013 will be a Lame Duck season - if you were a Team Owner, would you invest in equipment that might be eliminated soon. The answer is No and what you will see is decreased fields & corresponding apathy from fans for a Year. I think IndyCar will benefit from this, as their fields have been growing and the racing has been very good.

Posted by: seanery Sep 5 2012, 09:04 AM

yeah, I agree, and from a fan perspective, I wish they could have picked 14 or 16 races...12 races total means we have less racing to see during the season.

Posted by: Zimms Sep 5 2012, 09:12 AM

I agree. I hope they put there heads together and egos aside. This could be fantastic.



I think GTE is at least safe. The new 911 GTE is due in 2014 and this is the first year of a big update, so I do not see Falken/FLM/or Miller upgrading to new cars. The vette and viper teams are committed. I don't see Patron/Ed Brown leaving, and BMW has been up in the air because they need a different car. Maybe this kills any chance of seeing RLL in a Z4 GTE. I hope AJR stays, but I guess that depends on his deal with Lotus or their ability to get other sponsorship. I was hoping to see Cooper MacNeil move up to GTE-AM with a GTE Porsche fielded by AJR.

I think CORE was thinking of going to LMP2 next year. I can see that in jeopardy if the new series principals do not lay down some guidelines for 2014. If P2 cars can be used in the new series, I think we would see Dyson and MMR move to P2 and some of the PC cars move up to P2. That would make a nice field...

Like you said, it will all depend on their execution of the new series. Petit in 5ish weeks!

Posted by: seanery Sep 5 2012, 09:15 AM

Ed Brown shouldn't be going anywhere, Jim France mentioned in the press conference that Ed put the bug in Jim's ear to talk to Don.

Posted by: ThinAir Sep 5 2012, 09:18 AM

Actually, I love Le Mans and watch it every year. For some reason the multiple classes aren't an issue in that race, but when it comes to the available offerings on North American road races I prefer the simplicity of Grand Am. Even then, it's tough for the commentators to remember that the GT class exists as something more than a challenge for the DP cars.

Posted by: Rleog Sep 5 2012, 10:24 AM

2013 ALMS trivia question:

Which owner, and in which class, did the livery "Lame Duck Racing" run?

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Sep 5 2012, 04:45 PM

Lemme see. NASCAR, operated by the France family, is in the dumper. Grand Am, also operated by (and for the financial benefit and egos of) the France family, is in the dumper and has a difficult time getting anyone to attend most of the races. They also race cars nobody else recognizes. Now they are buying the most successful professional road racing
organization in the US, and they're most likely gonna run it in the very same successful manner as their other properties. For TV, will they restrict where the cameras point like they do in NASCAR? Wouldn't want the TV fans to see how empty the stands are ................... I see the dumper approaching!

The Cap'n

Posted by: bcheney Sep 5 2012, 08:04 PM

I agree about the France family comments by the Cap'n...If you watched the press conference today the clear brains of this new partnership are Atherton and Panoz. I really want to see this succeed... Having Daytona and Sebring in one series is magic and reminds me of the "Good Ole Days" when I crewed on a several different GTP teams in IMSA back in the 80's.

Posted by: carr914 Sep 5 2012, 08:24 PM

I kinda Disagree, Jim France is a Sports Car Guy unlike others in AssCar.

It has great possibilities, But they they have One Chance to do it right , & many chances to Fuch it Up. Let's hope they do it right

As Lee Diffey said "negativity breeds mistakes, optimisim brings hope & good results" or something like that

Posted by: carr914 Sep 6 2012, 05:50 PM

Gregg Pickett of Muscle Milk has gone on Record saying he will Never race a DP

of course Paul Tracy called the IRL cars CrapWagons but then raced them, so

Posted by: bcheney Sep 7 2012, 05:06 AM

Ok that is good to now about Jim France. I just think Atherton and Panoz have more personality about them and were more inspirational during the press conference. Any partnership is difficult to manage. They did refer to a "brain trust" that the two groups have. I do believe that exists and I will be pulling for them to succeed every step of the way! I love the enthusiasm Lee Diffey has...he may be the "best ever" at race broadcasting "live" and making you feel like you're a part of the action.

Posted by: carr914 Jan 4 2013, 07:58 AM

Press Conference today to outline the Classes for 2014

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jan 4 2013, 10:59 AM

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/grand-am-2014-class-structure-announced/

So, a quick breakdown, we'll have:

DP/LMP2
LMPC
GTE
GT/GTC

Not how I would have done it, but I assume money plays a big role here. Why they're continuing to support a "spec" prototype category (thought thats basically what DPs were?) in the form the the LMPC class is a bad move. It stifles innovation and that chassis is aging. But Chevy, Michelin and ORECA have their hands in there and I expect they put up some money to keep that class by itself. As much as I hate DPs, I would have traded DPs as the premier prototype class and combined the LMPC cars with LMP2. The GX class is a joke - GTE cars already use alternative fuels/technology. But since Grand Am will be running it this season (only 6 entries for Daytona so far) I guess they will need to find a way to get it into 2014, which will be in the GT class.

We'll see what happens, but I'm only cautiously optimistic at this point.

Posted by: carr914 Jan 4 2013, 02:25 PM

The LMP2/DP was a forgone conclusion - the surprise to me in the inclusion of the DeltaWing

LMPC - ?, I guess if they keep getting people into it & can update the cars. It would be nice to have 2 or 3 different Tubs/Engines

GTE - this is this shiznit

GT/GTC - Forgone Conclusion

GTX - I don't see it happening. I think Grand-Am created it this year for Mazda in recoginition for the money they pour into the sport and since they couldn't race the RX-8 anymore. I see Mazda getting into DP in a year

Posted by: naro914 Jan 6 2013, 02:27 PM

I posted this over on Rennlist:

What I was hoping for (class names are for example purposes):

P1 - Some version of ALMS P cars. Most likely not current P1 since there really isn't any racing here anyway, so lets say they are current P2 cars.
P2 - Grand Am DP cars
GT1 - ALMS GT cars
GT2 - combined Grand Am GT and ALMS GTC cars

Some think 4 classes is too much because it's too confusing to keep track of, but in this scenario, it would be easy to follow (ALMS P cars look nothing like DP cars, and ALMS GT cars are not the same as GA GT cars)

Unfortunately, this classing would not happen - GA took over ALMS. In what I laid out, all ALMS classes are ABOVE GA glasses....France family would never let that happen...

Combining DP and LMP cars is stupid. LMP cars are fragile high performance machines. DP cars are medium performance tanks that can run over other cars without getting a scratch. To match speeds, you'll either have to develop the DP cars or handicap the LMP2 cars. And if you dumb down the LMP2 cars....well...why bother running them?

ALMS was all about advancing technology - if you can't compete, step UP your game and make your car better!

Grand Am was all about parity - if you can't compete, the faster cars will be handicapped to bring everyone DOWN to the lowest common denominator.

The series is now in the hands of Grand Am people....

Posted by: mr914 Jan 6 2013, 02:52 PM

DP cars made me stop my annual pilgrimage to the rollex in daytona

I enjoyed the true prototypes and the GTO/GTU much better

Now the hybrids/delta wing cars intrigue me.


Now what shelf did I put my flux-capacitor.

Posted by: carr914 Jan 6 2013, 03:01 PM

I'm alright with it. They will be making the DPs faster so they can compete with LMP2. DPs already have more HP, but as you said are Tanks and are heavier. Plus the DeltaWing can compete head to head

They can't handicap or dumb-down the LMP2 Cars as then they would not be LeMans eligible. So the LMP2 and GTE cars are still within the rules to go to LeMans, that keeps the Manufacturers happy as they don't have to create different cars.

Unfortunately Porsche's LMP1 car coming in 2014 will not be within the Rules

Posted by: naro914 Jan 6 2013, 03:20 PM

Which is why we're going to LeMans in 2014!

Posted by: carr914 Jan 6 2013, 06:58 PM

Group Road Trip!

Posted by: Zimms Jan 6 2013, 07:57 PM

COOL! Same here. Have you started to make plans? We are possibly going to Stuttgart to see the museums as well. Club Arnage has a good going to Le Mans guide.