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Posted by: 7TPorsh Sep 26 2012, 10:52 AM

I am trying to figure out what I have. PO said it was the "standard" 2.0 upgrade. But I don't know what that is. I smiled and said "oh".

So here is what I found in the glove compartment way back. So 2.0 case? what does that mean? Different cam? solid lifters? is that good?



Car slowly started running bad and now I can't seem to get it started and idling.

I have changed and relocated the fuel pump and installed a pressure gauge at the carbs...3psi constant. So the investigation moves to the ignition.

I took off my pertronix and put the points back, set dwell, played with timing (no light)...no difference. I started reading about dizzys and got dizzy...but I think I will need a better one.

So I have dual Webers...and that's all I know. What model? Vacuum...don't know. There is a sticker on them. Is that a rebuild sticker from Internic

Posted by: 7TPorsh Sep 26 2012, 10:58 AM

More



Other side

Posted by: 7TPorsh Sep 26 2012, 11:02 AM

is this the crappy 009?

Posted by: dlee6204 Sep 26 2012, 11:14 AM

Yes

Posted by: type47 Sep 26 2012, 11:15 AM

In my opinion, a "standard" 2.0 upgrade would be to install "Euro" pistons which simply ups the compression ratio from factory 7.6 (~ish) to 8.0. Your engine has carbs so if you really want or need to know the upgrade, I'd say you'd have to ask the PO or the shop who did the work (if they could remember that from 04!)

Posted by: Cupomeat Sep 26 2012, 11:29 AM

Ok, So given the pictures your car has 1.7 or 1.8 heads on it (spark plug locations gives it away), SO, the upgrade could be one of the following;

1. Replaced the pistons and cylinders with 2.0 Ps&Cs, replaced the rods and crank with a 2.0l set up and machined the heads to fit (Best case you could hope for in this case)
2. Replaced the Pistons and Cylinders with 96mm units bringing displacement to 1911cc (likely)
3. Replaced the pistons and cylinders with 2.0 Ps&Cs, kept the same rods and crank as the 1.7l set up (66mm stroke) and machined the heads to fit (unlikely)

I hope that helps.

Posted by: mepstein Sep 26 2012, 11:49 AM

Call the shop and ask them. Someone might know. Maybe...

Posted by: wingnut86 Sep 26 2012, 12:36 PM

looks like you are missing a little sensor wire as well...

Posted by: cgnj Sep 26 2012, 01:37 PM

Great. exactly what sensor is he missing and how would that effect his performance and his unkown 2.0 upgrade issues? Oh wait looks like oil pressure sender is not connected. How's that for useful info?

Look on the bright the bright side your post count went up.

Posted by: 7TPorsh Sep 26 2012, 03:01 PM

Yes, little sensor wire got snagged.....thank you.

dizzy says 008 is that same as 009?

Can I install a vacuum advance dizzy with these carbs?

What carbs are these? 40s? IDF, DCOE, ...not that I know the difference.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Sep 26 2012, 04:52 PM

Don't worry about exactly what type of distributor you have yet. Sort out the motor and get it to start.

Do you have compression? Does the starter sound like it's cranking evenly, or is there a quiet bit in the pattern? It should sound kind of like "RR-RR-RR-RR-RR-RR-RR", not "RR-RR-RR-..-RR-RR-RR-..-RR-RR-RR".

Do you have spark? Have you grabbed an extra plug and hooked it up to one of the plug wires, taped it to a ground, and watched as the starter was cranked? How about hooking a plug wire up to the center terminal on the coil and checking the same way?

Do you have power to the coil? You should get +12V to the (+) terminal on it when the key is on.

It looks like there's no ground braid from the points plate to the body of the distributor. This could keep the points from completing the circuit to ground, and triggering the spark. The usual solution is to rebuild the distributor, but you may be able to get away with soldering a wire to the plate and hooking it under one of the bits screwed into the side of the distributor. At least in the short term, for testing purposes.

--DD

Posted by: 7TPorsh Sep 26 2012, 05:45 PM

It cranks and fires just doesn't keep running. Feels like no gas but getting pressure....can the carbs clog?

Was thinking a new dizzy would be a good upgrade if not too expensive.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Sep 27 2012, 12:20 AM

Do you have compression?

Do you have spark?

Do you have fuel?

You need all three of these. Figure out which one is missing to determine why the engine doesn't run.

--DD

Posted by: 7TPorsh Sep 27 2012, 11:23 AM

Nay pics of the copper braid on the dizzy?

Wondering is I should just replace the it.

I am getting fuel to the carbs but is there any easy way to see if they are clogged in any way?

Posted by: nolift914 Sep 27 2012, 03:35 PM

You need to check the jets in the Carbs, open up the air cleaners and unscrew the two brass tubes in the center. Blow them out and check if there is any debris in them, you may need to do the same with the idle jets on the base of the carbs. they are behind a set of flat head screws.

Posted by: euro911 Sep 27 2012, 08:18 PM

Also check your fuel filter(s). In addition, check the fuel strainers that are under the large brass bolts at the bottom your fuel inlets.

Have you completed a compression test?

Valve adjustment?

Posted by: Dave_Darling Sep 27 2012, 11:03 PM

Again:

Do you have spark? Have you checked?

Do you have compression? Have you checked?

Do you have fuel going in? Have you checked?

--DD

Posted by: 7TPorsh Sep 28 2012, 09:31 AM

I haven't checked compression yet. Car was running ok with no major events causing me to think I blew the rings.

My suspicion (spelling?) is fuel starvation but I am getting 3psi at the hose tee before the carbs.

Going to try to check the carbs this weekend.

Posted by: 7TPorsh Sep 30 2012, 12:12 PM

Got it running...but not so great. I set the points, rewired the coil and dizzy and it started...barely.

I twisted the dizzy to get a smooth idle...I have a timing gun but damn impossible to see the marks even with a small mirror. Need more hands.

Car will idle forever.... but it pops (backfires) now and then. I rev it and i see all throats squirting fuel.

I can drive the car but it is rough and spastic. Won't really spin up the revs either. I tried adjusting the dizzy a few times and driving but no change. Runs sporadically and it miss fires a little. Also when I rev the engine and look at the dizzty I see sparks flying out of he screw below the condenser. It's not really tight I don;t have the correct screw.

Does it really spark that much inside the dizzy? Don't see any grounding wire.

I wouldn't mind getting a different dizzy if someone has a good used one...the right one I need.

Maybe a sticky valve? Would a compression test see this? I don't have a tester.

Posted by: 914itis Sep 30 2012, 12:43 PM

I would make sure that it is properly timed before looking at other things . I am sure you have someone local here on this board who would lend you a hand .

Posted by: euro911 Sep 30 2012, 12:56 PM

Determine if there's any new parts you might need (spark plugs, wires, gaskets, and jack stands, etc.), then schedule a tech day at your house. Provide burgers, dogs or pizza and it'll get sorted out

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 30 2012, 01:15 PM

what it means - is that at best - your car increased in HP from 72 to 95.

http://www.914world.com/specs/engnumbs.php

jim

Posted by: The Cabinetmaker Sep 30 2012, 02:32 PM

You can't let the Magic spark out of the diz. It belongs inside. Everything has to be tight or it loses ground and does nothing.

Posted by: 7TPorsh Oct 1 2012, 12:01 PM

How can I ground the dizzy? I guess i am missing a wire?

I see this on ebay...but can't see where the other side of that copper braid goes...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-914-vw-audi-4-cyl-vacuum-distribuitor-JFU-4-0-231-170-093-/330773598140?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d03a48fbc&vxp=mtr

Posted by: euro911 Oct 1 2012, 12:44 PM

Gary, you need to ground the floating plate (that the points are mounted on) to the body of the dizzy.

Since the plate rotates slightly as it advances, a braided conductor is recommended. You can obtain a short piece of braided shield from a coaxial TV cable.

Cut a 2" length of braid (approx. length).
Clean and tin both ends of the braid.
Install a crimp-on eye-connector on one end of the braid
Solder (or tack-weld) the other end to a spot on the plate. (There should already be a glob of solder there now).
Insert the other end (with the eye connector) under one of the bolts on the dizzy's body.
You're done.

The pic on ebay clearly shows the crimp connector end.

Posted by: dlestep Oct 1 2012, 06:00 PM

Just a few more things to think of:
1. check for a braided ground strap between the transaxle and body, and ensure
that it has good ground, clean/dry contact at each end.
Otherwise, it will seek ground through your clutch cable.
2. find TDC using the marks on the cooling fan and static time to number 1.
3. check spark plug gap and clean each one, taking note what kind of build-up
appears on each one and what position they came from.
4. check spark plug wires for shorts (at night while it is idling, No light) bad wiring
shows blue flashes = weak spark
5. Check point gap. Check for pitting. replace points and condenser if pitted.
6. Check distributor cap for wear and tracking marks and rotor tip wear.
7. Check that the distributor is fully seated and properly positioned, static.
8. Remove the tops off your air filters and observe each barrel while you
blip the throttle. If it fills will fuel on top of the butterflies, you need to adjust
the floats.
Remove emulsion tubes and check each jet to ensure that they are not plugged.
You mentioned that you are running 3psi fuel, but if that is because
your motor has a in-line adjustible fuel pressure regulator, you cannot rely on
entirely on that alone. Just one carb out of sync can mess things up.
9. Check everything from throttle stops, through the linkage. Balance your carbs
at idle with the linkage disconnected. Ensure proper and equal flow then connect
your linkage and remove any and all preload. Each throttle arm has to move
equally and at the same time.
Check on-line for weber carb adjustment procedures...use them !
10. disconnect your inlet fuel connection and dump line into a coffee can. Test your
fuel pump for 1 minute. Dump fuel back into tank. Electric fuel pumps need
good clean ground as well. If the fuel spits and it is aireated, check ground.
11. Electrical and fuel problems have similar symtoms in the beginning. You may
have both.

Learn this rule..."there is alway at least THREE things that are wrong."

You need a reference book on these procedures...go purchase one.
Fix the electrical and fuel problems then worry about the other things.

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Oct 2 2012, 07:39 AM

carbs are dirty, clogged jets.
remove carbs, remove jets, blow it all out with carb cleaner

Posted by: 7TPorsh Oct 4 2012, 10:52 AM

Well I removed the 19mm bolts under where the fuel lines attach to the carb.

The little screens seemed clean and also some very little metal dust came out.

I stuck an air hose in there and blew it out a little and replaced it all back.

I haven't tried to start it again yet.

Is there another way to "clean" these out without having to remove them?

Also I am thinking of just getting a good used replacement dizzy rather than try to solder on the copper braid...I'll still have the 009 crap.

Is the better dizzy the 050? Vacuum advance would be nice but can my carbs do it without a mod?

Posted by: 7TPorsh Oct 4 2012, 10:56 AM

Can I remove this screw and just slide a vacuum hose over it?

Posted by: euro911 Oct 4 2012, 11:20 AM

Yes, that is a vacuum advance port.

You only need to run a hose to one of the carbs

For a 2.0L, I believe you'll want the dizzy that ends with 205A. Check Pbanders web site to verify

Posted by: 7TPorsh Oct 5 2012, 04:02 PM

looking at the diagram...where are the main jets? I am guessing that's what I need to take out and blow out since the car is idling so it's not the idle jets?

Webers so I am hoping I don;t have to remove the carbs to do this.

Anyone know what kind of Webers these are?

Posted by: euro911 Oct 5 2012, 06:05 PM

Unscrew the two brass emulsion tube/jet stacks that protrude out of the top of the carb between the throat stacks (shown in the pic below)



The main jets are pressed into the the bottom of the emulsion tubes, air correction jets are pressed into the top.

http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/v/vspfiles/weber_carburetor_schematics/40IDF70.pdf for a 40IDF schematic (.pdf file)

47 main jet
48 emulsion tube
49 air correction jet
50 upper tube extension

Posted by: bandjoey Oct 5 2012, 06:52 PM

Time to start over and it'll run great. Toss out what's happened. (Ask me how I know)
Set the valves cold - see 'how to adjust' in the tech section here
Static time the points and dwell
Regap the spark plugs
Locate TDC and be sure plug wires are in position and mark the position on the fan so u can see it with the timing light.
Pull all the carb jets and blow them out. Set screws to static turns out
Since you know there's fuel pressure ... Start it up. It will run.
Set the proper timing. It's different than FI

Go read all of the tech articles on Pelican and World 3 times (ask me how I know ) and you shouldn't have any problem

Wires, p&c, plugs, cap & rotor are dirt cheap. Just replace 'em

I fought this battle for a month. Started completely over and it worked

See if there's someone close by see if they can come by tomorrow ?????

Posted by: stugray Oct 6 2012, 11:02 AM

7TPorsh,

From what I am reading above:

Put the tools down and go buy a Weber carb book before you go any further.
Sorry, but these carbs are not something you can "tinker with" until they work.

If you were local, I would GIVE you one of my books for free.
You will also need some special tools. Minimum - Carb synch tool (snail)

Stu

Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 6 2012, 12:34 PM

your car will idle even with fouled idle jets. until you hit 2700ish+rpm you are running on the idle circuitry. with your car warmed up GENTLY turn 1 idle adj screw in and count the # of turns to seated and write it down noting the cyl #. the #'s are stamped into the engine tin. your engine should start to stumble perhaps a low backfire. no change in idle speed or quality of idle indicates the possibility of a plugged jet. turn it back out the same # you turned in. repeat this 3 more times.

agreed on the manual and sync tool. we can type til our fingers fall off to answer ?s and if you don't understand the components of the carbs, and the functions they perform you'll get frustrated and people will eventually stop responding.

note the plug wire in the one picture. there should be a little sealing boot on the plug end and the rest should have them as well. unless you have a receipt i suspect they are pretty old. get new ones.

a known to be working distributor for an l-jet fi system is a reasonably priced replacement for the 009. like the 009 the l-jet dist does not require a vacuum signal to provide advance. make sure the vacuum port on the carb is well sealed at this point. all of them if there are more than 1 on your set of webers.

there are a number of factors that apply to running a set of carbs. wait til you tackle the linkage.

if you offered to pay postage and a nominal fee for his time perhaps stu would be willing to send a weber manual. i imagine it would have plenty of helpful tips written in it. mine does.



k

Posted by: stugray Oct 6 2012, 01:42 PM

At least here is an excellent diagram so you know what parts are what:



http://www.piercemanifolds.com/category_s/250.htm

They are my favorite source for parts.

Stu