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Posted by: Fastcruisin914 Oct 13 2012, 12:53 PM

I am doing a Subaru conversion, and am looking for the best proven cooling system.

I have seen the Renegade Hybrid kit, worth the cost??? I have also seen some refer to Desert hybrid, are they still even around or doing 914 radiator kits, and if so are they any good?

So many factors like, front trunk radiator set ups, or rear truck set ups?

The angle of the radiator in the front truck, straight up against the front saving trunk space, or sitting back further and angled, or even in the floor of the trunk?

Also with the air flow, big cuts in the wheel wells, or many holes in the wheel wells, or venting through the trunk floor, or through the hood with the air going up, what is the best way for the air flow without taking from the vehicle structurally?

Pictures would be nice, or even something that may show the step by step process from start to finish with the cooling system install/fabrication.

Posted by: speed metal army Oct 13 2012, 01:01 PM

I did a build thread a couple weeks ago.. Renegades cooling setup.
Some fairly decent photos of the rad setup.Cools nicely.

Posted by: bulitt Oct 13 2012, 02:13 PM

Here's a good thread to look at-
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=132273&hl=

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 13 2012, 04:04 PM

search suby conversions here and you'll see a few. Also, ruby914 has a nice set up. his build thread is over at clubnarp.

Posted by: Fastcruisin914 Oct 14 2012, 12:11 PM

Thank You for the replies.

@Speed Metal Army - Yours is a Renegade setup, does Renegade provide a Good overall kit, as in;

Is Renegade kit free floating (i read that bolting directly causes issues) do they provide some kind of frame work and rubber mounting for free floating?

What about the Sheet metal shroud to guide the air into the radiator?

Is there a Overflow tank with Renegade?

Do they provide hose hangers for running the coolant hoses under the car?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to figure out what all is in the Renegade kit from someone that purchased one, and if its worth the money. Or if I should go the cheaper route, which I am not a fabricator of any kind, so a difficult decision.

Posted by: Andyrew Oct 14 2012, 12:26 PM

Rennegade kit is worth the money. Contact renegade for your questions.


From a guy that built his own cooling system..

Posted by: speed metal army Oct 14 2012, 01:30 PM

Yes,its free floating.No shrounding to the rad in the front,but they provide everything to encapsulate the rad in the front trunk.They provide a filler neck,but no puke can(overflow tank).That can be found in a zillion different sizes/configurations at the FLAPS.The hangers they will provide,but your better off just getting them yourself.Look for 1.25" conduit straps.
Mine works well.It was easy.I have yet to duct the air from the bumper to the rad,but I will.

Posted by: mittelmotor Oct 14 2012, 02:20 PM

I've got the Renegade system also, and I'm very satisfied with it. The radiator has a couple of pegs welded to the bottom that fit into special grommets in the aluminum floor that's provided, so that locates it on the lower edge. I elected to secure the floor on the forward edge of the trunk compartment in a couple of places, so the springiness of the rear edge of the floor (where those pegs are) allows the radiator to float nicely.

I kept the battery in the stock location and ran a 10-gauge wire up front for power. It seems that the dual fans spike the current draw at right around 40 amps when they kick in (somewhat less when they're running), so you'll want about 50-60 amps' worth of fuse protection. I had a 40-amp fuse in there for quite a while, but it ultimately blew, so that seems to be the threshold. The Spal fans are pretty quiet for the amount of air they move!

Here's a couple pics showing the aluminum trunk floor, some of the side shrouding, the grommets (blue) and the re-routed wiring harness.


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Posted by: mittelmotor Oct 14 2012, 02:32 PM

second pic:


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Posted by: dakotaewing Oct 14 2012, 07:43 PM

I have been doing a little research on this subject, trying to come up with some options... Found this today. It's a perfect fit, and about 1' wider than the Renegade set up. Some folks also make shroud's for this radiator, but the fans seem cheap. Cost for the radiator is about $120 shipped.


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Posted by: kg6dxn Oct 14 2012, 09:36 PM

That does look like a good fit. Shrouds are important. Air will take the path of least resistance. If there is no shroud to force the air path through the radiator, You will have cooling problems. Fans are not enough.

I wish I pics of my first conversion. I had a custom radiator made to lie flat on the bottom of the trunk. I used the old A/C outlet on the floor. I made a shelf that doubled as the shroud to take bumper air through and down. It worked great! I had the filler neck extended to the highest point possible in front of the gas tank. Overall it cooled great and I had space for small luggage. I carpeted the shelf to look nice. The only downfall to this method was on dirt roads. It had a fan mounted under the radiator. When it turned on, it would blow dirt from under the car. This would also piss off any spectators close by

Now I run an aluminum rad, tilted back. I think it's 29"x16". I run a large Setrab oil cooler in front of it, 17"x13". Keeps the temps around 160 on the freeway, without the use of the fan. Fans kick on in traffic only via the thermostatically controlled relays. The radiator is fully shrouded to the bumper. All air has to go through it.

Posted by: Dr. Roger Oct 14 2012, 09:55 PM

I believe Renegade has done some research and found a dual pass better than a single pass. Radiator shown is a single pass, right?

Posted by: dakotaewing Oct 15 2012, 06:03 AM

Yum, undetermined...
Labeling states "Dual Two Core Aluminum Radiator" -

Posted by: matthepcat Oct 15 2012, 10:15 AM

I run a Pantera radiator core in mine with custom inlet and outlet locations made by Fluidine. Just called them up, and they made it.

Runs at 180, as that is my thermostat type. You don't want your car running too cool.

Posted by: pete Oct 15 2012, 02:49 PM

Where did you find it? Link?

Posted by: dakotaewing Oct 15 2012, 06:42 PM

Ebay. Search 00-05 Toyota Celica Aluminum Radiator

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Oct 19 2012, 03:23 PM

Here ya go A celica radiator. This is the one Thom is talking about. This is going in a Subaru conversion that I'm helping D914 with. I really like the way this mounts up. The welds look good and seems to be a bargin at the price with fans and shroud.
The white in the floor is a paper templet we are using for the bottom,

Posted by: Black22 Oct 19 2012, 05:42 PM

Can't believe no one else has said it yet!

914's don't have radiators!

Carry on.

Posted by: dakotaewing Oct 20 2012, 05:10 PM

Bob -

Couple of questions...

How long has he had the radiator?

What do you think of the fans? (They seem kinda cheap...)
How much cfm are they putting out? The specs really did not address whether
the amount was individually, or as a pair...
Do you think this rad would handle cooling for an LS1?


Thanks!

Posted by: DBCooper Oct 20 2012, 05:35 PM

As a general comment I don't think you need to cut out nearly as much of the front panel as a lot of people think. My car's not here so i can't measure, but the opening in the bumper is only like 22x3" and I can pound the turbo engine as long as I want without ever seeing 200 degrees. I've had the fans on two or three times, but every time sitting in traffic, never while driving.

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Oct 20 2012, 05:49 PM

I agree with the smaller opening in the front. I cut it large on my first conversion and one summer I started checking how small I could go. I ended up with about half the size I had.
On my Subaru and LS1 cars I have a opening the same size as a stock 914 GT oil cooler cut out in the bumper and valance.

Thom .......I think it will cool a LS1 fine its a double row with 1" tubes. Not a double pass. The fans seem to work like a set of spals that I have. The blue color is not my first choice.

Bob

Posted by: DBCooper Oct 20 2012, 07:13 PM

That's good to hear, I intend to change my front bumper and valance to a narrow-body GT style. I thought I might have to enlarge the opening some, but have suspected that it might be enough as-is. That'll be great if it works.

Posted by: Fastcruisin914 Oct 28 2012, 11:03 AM

Just wanted to say Thanks for all the replies and information given.

It seems those that have bought the Renegade kits seem to be happy with them and say its worth the money, and even some that built their own say Renegades kit is worth the money.

I am thinking of going the Renegade kit route now, but cut the smaller intake hole and go from there.

I need to do more research first to make sure, and contact Renegade and ask some questions there like Andyrew advised.

Again Thanks for all the information and pictures.

Posted by: jimkelly Nov 28 2015, 05:07 PM

ditto, seems many are using this celica radiator now, for several reasons.

Posted by: BRAVE_HELIOS Jul 26 2016, 08:24 PM

Andrew,

Can you send me the details on the R.H. radiator system such as dimensions, Inlet and outlet sizes and rad type (number of rows, if cross flow etc...).

This hot summer has proven that my system cannot handle it. I have some good components such as a 2000 cfm, 9 blade fan out of a Ford Taurus. The remote mechanical water pump is a standard R.H. unit. I also have a Griffin radiator, model 125241-H... no radiator cap (inlet=1.5" and outlet=1.75").

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-1-25241-x

The dimensions are 16"x 27.5" x 3". it is a 2 row unit. Although the inlet/outlet sizes are different, the hoses carrying coolant from front to rear are all the same size at 1.25 inch diameter. The Tech rep at Griffin seems to think that the rad should be fine but I ain't no 4 core unit either.

The other part of this is the car has a Chalon kit installed. I question whether the bumper opening for rad air is sufficiently sized. The opening is ducted to the bulkhead opening. The inner fender walls are fully open to allow the air to exit.

From all that I've read; the viable solutions is to either go with a RH rad setup (or as close to as possible) and/or go with an electric water pump. I think I have some (most) of what RH would sell me as there rad kit. The only difference I can see is the rad size/type and the bumper opening size.

Pictures of my current setup can be found here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=132273&hl=#

I feel like I am close to getting this figured out. Just a bit more tinkering is needed.

Thanks!

Posted by: BRAVE_HELIOS Jul 26 2016, 09:45 PM

I forgot to add... I recently purchased a couple of 12 inch AC condenser fans off of a 90's Toyota 4Runner. So far I attached them to the inner fender walls to help exhaust the hot air from the radiator and main fan. No difference really. Any other suggestions to place the fan(s)... perhaps as a pusher on the front side of the rad or as a puller on the back side of the bumper grill opening? How about the engine bay area?

Posted by: Chris914n6 Jul 26 2016, 10:56 PM

What driving conditions? Stopped, city traffic, highway speeds? Each one is a different cause.

Posted by: BRAVE_HELIOS Jul 26 2016, 11:13 PM

It seems to get hotter the faster I go, even at a constant velocity. At stops, it seems to cool off a bit. Water flow isue then?

Posted by: cali914 Jul 27 2016, 09:57 AM

Meizere electric remote mount water pump 55 gms biggest dual pass aluminum radiator you can stuff in nose with two of the biggest fans sucking 3000 cfm through the radiator at iddle. Basically that is what the Renegade set up is LOL. Oh inlet shroud very important so the fans suck all the air through the radiator.

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 27 2016, 11:22 AM

Tony, I dont have the Renegade system. My comment from 2012 was that its a well designed system and worth the money. For my system I wish I would have gone that route from the get go as cooling problems are the bane of the v8 conversion.

Now I have a Toyota radiator and Davies Craig water pump and fan controller. Its a great setup and fully self contained but I dont know if its enough for a hot hot hot SBC. The radiator itself is half the size. Of my previous griffin radiator.

Posted by: cali914 Jul 27 2016, 11:32 AM

Yeah you have a flow problem or giant air pockets in the line. Get the Meizere remote mount water pump place it at the bottom of the radiator use one inch line in one direction and inch and a 1/4 in other direction and you should see significant improvements

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Jul 27 2016, 12:16 PM

The radiator you have should be good. Lets see some pictures of where you fill the system.

Posted by: BRAVE_HELIOS Jul 27 2016, 01:47 PM

Here are some pictures I took today.

The holes in the shroud are new... as a test top see if it made a difference. I think it did because in the past (with no holey shroud), it did not matter how cold it was outside; the temp would always go to 200 and beyond (have a 160 t-stat with bleed holes drilled and the fan is set to turn on at 180). After cutting the holes in the shroud, the temp would stay at around 180 (acceptable) although it was when it was cooler outside. Now in this 100 degree weather... it does not matter... it still get to 200 and beyond).

The extra fans are from a Toyota 4-Runner AC condenser units and were mounted there temporarily to see if they made any difference in assisting the main fan exhaust air from the front area (they were wired to push air out). They did not work.

Also; my temp sensor is mounted in a port right next to the t-stat/intake manifold.


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Posted by: BRAVE_HELIOS Jul 27 2016, 01:52 PM

What if I could stand the radiator up more vertically... might that help with a larger cavity in front of it?

Posted by: cali914 Jul 27 2016, 11:05 PM

The holes in the shroud are making the fan inefficient. Is that a dual pass radiator. Where is your expansion tank connected to the fill.

Posted by: cali914 Jul 27 2016, 11:11 PM

The expansion tank and fill in the rear looks good. I think it's your radiator and pump combination

Posted by: cali914 Jul 27 2016, 11:16 PM

Renegade using Ron Davis Radiator

Posted by: A&P Mech Jul 28 2016, 07:12 AM

If you have access to a MIG and are willing to fab a bracket and cut some sheet metal you can have a radiator assembly for a little over two hundred bucks. I put mine together using the Toyota Celica GT radiator off of eBay. It cost $167 bucks and it comes with fans and shroud. I have a 2.5L Subaru in my car and it runs 190 degrees even in 95 degree heat.

I found that it that it doesn't take a large opening to provide more than enough air to keep things cool.

Posted by: cali914 Jul 28 2016, 08:29 AM

My opening is maybe twice that size of the pic above but I found on 6cyl it does not take a large opening as the v8. The larger the opening the more air through the radiator at speed. At idle is where a good set of fans and shroud do the work.

Posted by: cali914 Jul 28 2016, 08:35 AM

In the works as we speak because the wheel well exit is really inefficient and prehistoric. I'll send more pics when it's finished. The damn gas tank bar which ties the two shock towers together is our major obstacle at the moment, but making progress.