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Posted by: kermit Nov 9 2004, 12:13 AM

I'm one of those Porsche purists, really particular about all the little details. I drive the crap out of my car, but I still make sure it has the correct nuts and bolt, so the concours judges don't give me any lip. I notice a lot of radically modified 914s here, just wanted to get a sense of how everybody feels.

Posted by: Jenny Nov 9 2004, 12:15 AM

Ha! It's a three way tie!

Jen

Posted by: Alison Baker Nov 9 2004, 12:18 AM

I don't think it's a three way tie !

Posted by: redshift Nov 9 2004, 12:19 AM

I won't vote on this, because I am a purist, and a -radio edit- liar.

I've owned 'em nice, and nasty.. I liked most of 'em.... except this one..

Would you be so kind as to add: "built in Venice Beach California" to the list, so I can vote against something?




M

Posted by: kermit Nov 9 2004, 12:22 AM

still a 3 way tie!

sorry, can't modify the poll once its began...

Posted by: nebreitling Nov 9 2004, 12:29 AM

great poll howard. i often wonder how many of us are "porsche people" vs. "car people"...

a year or two ago, i would have voted for the second option. but since then, i've seen far too numerous conversions from fellow members that look simply outstanding.

sbc or whatever -- you can't take the 914 out of these cars...

Posted by: MattR Nov 9 2004, 12:42 AM

I never understood why people go crazy over matching numbers. Who the -radio edit- cares if thats how the factory assembled it? I come from a long line of car people who consider a mismatched car junk, and I just whole heartidly disagree. If I had a 56 chevy (which I do) with a piece of -radio edit- 283, why shouldnt I strap on the biggest baddest 454 I can afford to the hood? Insteady a purist would have me rebuild the 283, which would cost more money and be much slower, just so some nerd with a flashlight can piss his pants... NOT FOR ME!

Edit: sorry if I offended anyone that values matching numbers and stuff, I didnt mean to start a flame war.

Posted by: Jenny Nov 9 2004, 12:42 AM

since the worst criticism thrown at our cars is the low hp (aside from the whole rust thing, I mean ), I guess it's very appealing for teener owners to get more umph while maintaining the handling these little guys are known for. Best of both worlds. If you had cake, wouldn't you want to eat it too??

Jen

Posted by: MattR Nov 9 2004, 12:44 AM

I thought it was the crappy transmission? or the low resale value? or the "not quite classic porsche" shape???

Posted by: redshift Nov 9 2004, 01:36 AM

SPEAK FOR YOUR CAR, -radio edit-!

My car is like a test subject for a professional, and every question is a trick, with a burning prod as reward.

It's kinda growing on me!

... and in me..




M

Posted by: Andyrew Nov 9 2004, 01:49 AM

My vote is obvious...

I thought it was funny that "chebby or scooby".. the two choices I was going for... lol

Posted by: itsa914 Nov 9 2004, 08:02 AM

For me they don't have to be stock, but not a real fan of the Chevy V8 and other conversions. I do like the Alien, mainly because it was done with 928 motor. To each their own, I have seen some great conversions but, they are just not for me.

Posted by: davep Nov 9 2004, 08:21 AM

I like to see completely original cars, perfectly preserved. However, only a very few are going to be in this kind of condition. I also like to see a well sorted out GT, whether an original six or a conversion. Something like the "Alien", a well sorted out 928 engine conversion, I think is wonderful. Each to his own.

Posted by: d914 Nov 9 2004, 08:35 AM

I lean heavyly towards the "other porsche" options but........I am really interested in a scooby option so I must go for Three.....

Posted by: skline Nov 9 2004, 08:45 AM

I guess its kind of obvious where I stand in this poll. I still like the all stock option as well however, which I guess makes me an all around "Car Person".

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Nov 9 2004, 08:54 AM

If I had to select only one category...of course it would be the real deal...Factory original only.

But I appreciate well crafted 914s in any form.

Kermie is beautiful BTW...

Posted by: red914 Nov 9 2004, 08:57 AM

what we need is some wealthy porsche-phile to cram a flat 12 917 engine into one of our cars (like mine maybe?) or one of the awesome little 8 cyl boxers porsche made. yes, i know the factory did two of them, but i am talking about one we can see and read about here and in the pages of excellence.

dream on, shane, dream on...

Posted by: rhodyguy Nov 9 2004, 09:00 AM

test... shit. edit: what's with the "radio edit". are you guys doing that or is it some bad word feature?

kevin

Posted by: ! Nov 9 2004, 09:11 AM

Concour weenies make me ill....

I see the "cram in it vote" is ahead...let's see if Ohio can screw it up....

Posted by: krk Nov 9 2004, 09:34 AM

An odd vote in a way. One of the things that I get a real kick out of in the 914 community is the engineering and fab skills. I love looking at the work that has gone -- particularly the cleverness/creativity/design work. You don't see this anywhere near as much in the other p-car communities.

For my own car though, I'd be more-or-less happy with a decent sixer. I say "more or less" because an original /6 is not a particularly strong performer -- needs more ponies -- but I'm not sure I want to stray from factory in that case. Ah well -- it's not a bad problem to have

kim.

Posted by: Root_Werks Nov 9 2004, 09:46 AM

I just voted and wow, look how almost dead even split it is between shove Porsche engines in to shove whatever in. I think that is pretty cool. 914's are very versitile.

The V8 guys have had me thinking a lot lately.

Wonder if I could sell me six parts as a complete conversion installed for someone? Hmmm?

Posted by: J P Stein Nov 9 2004, 10:03 AM

My attitude is "Sure, why not?" (#3), tho I tend towards form follows function and ask the question "does it *work*?"

If you're gonna do some oddball conversion, make it work at least as well as the original 30 year old car. A car that's broke down all the time.....or never gets on the road/track shows that you have a lot to learn ...or you're a troll.

Posted by: Hi_Fi_Guy Nov 9 2004, 10:03 AM

I have a weird standard... maybe even a double standard. For myself, I really like sleepers, that is cars that look pretty much stock, but pack a punch. That whole concept of looking stock-ish has ruled a lot of my own decisions on my 914. Also, it would seem that PCA is enforcing the "must be Porsche engined" rule more and more so that will affect some people's decisions.

Truth be known though my geek side really likes all the conversion perversions. 928 motor, cool. Subaru flat 4 or 6, very cool. Rotary, SBC, VR6, all cool. The fact that people enjoy these cars enough to engineer ways to make all of these conversions work simply shows what great little cars our 914s are and that it has a lot of untapped possibility.

Posted by: tdgray Nov 9 2004, 10:04 AM

I prefer a Porsche engine.

But hey put in anything you want just don't say SH$T or you will get edited. <_<

Posted by: scooter311 Nov 9 2004, 10:06 AM

Peronally, if it has a throttle, I wanna drive it or ride it, no matter what it is. 2, 3, 4 wheels no matter. As long as I'm in it, working on it, breaking it, wasting money on it, it's cool.
I chose a 2.0 over a brand new V6 (I had a new crate motor) to put in my car, because it was easier, but also because it's a wierd car, and should at least have a wierd motor in it - it's so much fun to crunch through gears at 4 grand and hear the motor, carbs, fan, and every other rattle and noise it makes. A V8 would be awesome I'm sure, and if I had another 914 I'd certainly consider hacking in a SBC! I'd also LOVE to drive a nice big flat six, one of those that everyone here seems to long for......... I could never afford one, sadly.
I can appreciate a stone stocker as well, and would never hack a pristine one apart, but these are cars, and meant to be driven - so if you have a concourse car, put it in a crystal ball, but go buy another so you can beat the snot out if it and DRIVE DRIVE DRIVE DRIVE DRIVE!!


- insert very loud, loud music -

DRIVE! DRIVE! DRIVE!!!!

Posted by: SLITS Nov 9 2004, 10:08 AM

I am a "purist" - my car is built from the purist rusty junk I could find - It's all Porsche - Fine pursit German Rusty Junk I might add - pure shit - donkeydung-apecrap (the preceeding was a test of the "Bad Language" auto editor)!!!!!

Posted by: ArtechnikA Nov 9 2004, 10:32 AM

it's your car, do what you want ...

(been saying that since 1975...)

Posted by: 914forme Nov 9 2004, 10:46 AM

Is this political in some way??????

Just looking for the subliminal message here.

I am bad I will have one of each soon.

Posted by: blabla914 Nov 9 2004, 10:57 AM

My interest in cars has always been racing of one sort or another. I like to think of cars the way my uncle who was a Navy carrier pilot described helicoptors. "A large collection of parts flying (or in this case driving) in a VERY close formation." People who look down on cars just because of brand, modifications, or intended use whether it be concours, drag racing, etc. instead of looking at the workmanship and pride of ownership from the owner completely miss the point of the car hobby.

Case in point. I have a good friend that has a '54 MGTD MkII that his father bought brand new. It has never been restored. It has only been mechanically maintained as necessary. You should hear the PCA guys scoff when I talk about that car. It's also amusing to hear what they have to say when I drive my '66 bug to monthly meetings. I acutally over heard a guy say "can you believe some one had the gall to come here in an old VW?".

It is these kind of penny loafer wearing, nose looking down, middle class twits that give the PCA a bad rap. I encourage real car people all over to be active in their club.

rant over.

Kelly

Posted by: Mueller Nov 9 2004, 10:58 AM

kim, I have to disagree, some of the 356 guys have us beat hands down when it comes to cleverness/creativity/design work on our P-cars

I like bone stock 914s, there is something "neat" about having a car that old in original condition, however, right now for me, that is not the type of car that I want to own right now...so I picked the heavily modified/molested

Posted by: J P Stein Nov 9 2004, 11:30 AM

I've seen some mighty trick 356s.....mostly Gary Emory's stuff.
"Bring money and let someone else do the thinking/work" seems to be the 356 rule. They've also had more time to sort things out and a prettier car to work with. Emory is VERY good.

Send him a fist fulla cash and a 914 and who knows what you'd get.....but I'd rather do it myself

Posted by: djm914-6 Nov 9 2004, 11:40 AM

Too bad you can only vote once. My vote went to " cram it" but I think there is a place for every kind and I'l like to have one of each.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Nov 9 2004, 11:41 AM

If you start editing my shit then I will go somewhere else.
I came to this site because it was renegade and just an extension of my garage Beer Boobs Butts ocassionally porn.

Only thing left is to tell me I can't upgrade my motor to what ever I want, then down the crapper we go.

Posted by: mack914 Nov 9 2004, 11:44 AM

Do what ever you like to the car, but keep it Porsche driven. I had a 356 Speedster kit car with VW pan/engine, was OK. But, an old MG kit car with VW drive train in the back, just looses its appeal.

Posted by: krk Nov 9 2004, 11:48 AM

Actually I'm happy to stand corrected. I debated mentioning the outlaw group -- they have done some pretty amazing things, some of which have showed up in some pretty cool magazines, and some which I really *really* like. But I don't have a sense for how big that crowd is or how active, and they seem less race oriented than the 914 crowd. (those are all pretty clueless comments tho )

Mike/JP, do you think there are many with non-pcar drive trains?

kim.

Posted by: curtis Nov 9 2004, 11:49 AM

MIKE took the words right out of my mouth!!!!!

Posted by: Steve Thacker Nov 9 2004, 11:55 AM

I own a skin deep bastard child, so I say whatever floats your boat. Would I like to own a purist looking car,...? Sure
Donations?

Posted by: curtis Nov 9 2004, 11:55 AM

OH YEAH I FORGOT TO MENTION I VOTED FOR 3! GREETINGS TO ALL YOU WHITE GLOVE CONCOURSE WHEENIE PYSHCO NUMBERS MATCH POLISED BOTTOM JUDGES! :finger2:

Posted by: Series9 Nov 9 2004, 11:55 AM

I do Porsche only. You guys probably know my love for the six by now, but I am considering a 951 engine for a future project.

I've never been a fan of the non-Porsche V8s because they're power plants out of cars that I generally hate, but I can appreciate quality craftsmanship.

Posted by: dinomium Nov 9 2004, 11:57 AM

I voted as it pertains to my own cars... I want to keep porsche engines in them...
But I do admire and really dig the engineering and inginuity(yeah I cant speLL!) that these projects bring.
Maybe I voted wrong oh well...

Posted by: SteveSr Nov 9 2004, 11:58 AM

A lot of people probably said the same kind of things about the first '32 roadster that was carved up and a big V8 stuffed in.
My car will never be a concourse or trailer queen. I voted #3 because thats what I want ,not the PCA or anyone else. I just want to go fast,have fun building my car,learn a few things along the way and blow some doors off some Miatas

SteveSr

Posted by: Eric_Shea Nov 9 2004, 12:09 PM

You're all the 356 owners of 2020.

Think 15 years ahead...

There will be some stock ones out there.

There will be some modified with Porsche engines.

There will be some creative alternatives.

The only concerns I would have with mega-machines is the viability of the chassis. It was designed in 68-69 for approx 130hp tops. When the factory went GT they attempted to stiffen the chassis the best they knew how at the time (they knew there were issues). They also added some of the better brakes of the day.

That being said, we've learned a lot about the SWOT of the 914. There's inner long kits. Chassis stiffening kits. New instructions on what to do with our rear shock towers. 3.5" struts to bolt on that allow virtually any macho brake application known to man. Adapters for virtually any engine bolt up. Kits that turn a 915 into a modern day 916, cages and harnesses to help protect you when you're right foot gets out of control.

I hit #2 cause that's "me". I dig Porsches because "they're Porsches". My first car was a Beetle at age 14. I couldn't drive it for two years so my father and I rebuilt the engine. I built about 4 more after that and naturally progressed to a 914 at age 18. Once I had a 914 I had to have a 911 and the story goes on and on. I've torn every single one I've owned apart. I have been absolutely fascinated with their engineering and over engineering (of some products). I think a stock 914 or 914-6 is a true balance in engineering and an absolute hoot to drive (in the vintage sense). I've been around enough autocrosses to see a well driven, stock 2.0, smoke the living shit out of 90% of the 911's at the track. I always like to ask myself... "What would it be like to ride in the passengers seat of my car with Brian Redman or Vic Elford at the wheel?" Would they wonder where my aluminum pedals were, or would they basically smoke everything at the track that day? Would they amaze me with hidden potentials I never knew my car had? What do you think?

I really think option #3 is cool... keep the spirit of the mark and engineer the shit out of it. It's (914 chassis) a great start... mid engine, low CG, nice brakes. However, while restoring the 911, I realized the limitations of our chassis. I was doing some serious racing on a stock chassis. A-pillars cracked. C-pillars cracked. If you're going to add ponies (regardless of the make) start with the chassis.

Stock, Porsche Mod., Chevy, Scooby... done "right" they're all pretty cool. Have fun, it's your car

Posted by: GWN7 Nov 9 2004, 12:40 PM

I like stock ones. I like modified ones. I like to see what the creative side of people can produce.

I'm going to have one of each. Why, because we have some twisty roads that follow the rivers around here and a whole bunch of flat ones that go for miles and miles. So the 74 will be stock (with a few mods for weekend AXing) and the 73 (flaired roller) will get the 327/325hp sbc that's sitting in the garage.

Ideally I'd like 2 cars exactly the same. Same paint, interior and badging. A go fast car and a go very fast car.

Dosen't PCA stand for Porsche Chevrolet America?

Posted by: RonD Nov 9 2004, 12:49 PM

Since I fell into a super deal for a low mileage LE car I think it needs to be kept as original as possible.

Plus I like think the sophisticated simplicity, performance and economy of the air cooled Type IV with FI is pretty hard to beat.

But I love the electric conversions and a six sure would be fun.

You start to loose me with the water cooled stuff. But it's your money. Have fun!

Posted by: kermit Nov 9 2004, 12:54 PM

Some really good points about the limitations of the chassis and all the lessons learned to overcome them in the last 30+ years.

I once instructed a guy with a relatively stock 914 with a Chevy V8 in it, stock wheels and everything. First of all, it was really wierd seeing one of those automatic shifters poking out, but beyond that - the car was practically undrivable. the tires would light up at the lightest jab of the throttle at very low rpms. I recall he went through a lot of CV joints

This poll kinda surprised me when I logged in this morning - it really grew. Great to get a sense of all the diverse and really passionate responses, which is really what this is all about.

Whatever you do, just remember this sequence:
1. tires
2. suspension
3. brakes
4. cooling
5. hp

Driving skills and weight reduction at any time

Posted by: Eric_Shea Nov 9 2004, 01:14 PM

...other engineers details like "how to keep it from splitting in two".

That would be 260hp. It's no hidden mystery that the factory designed stiffening kits just two years after that article was written because the chassis was cracking. Search the threads for chassis stiffening, shock tower etc... it's fairly well documented. Also, keep in mind that we are now 35 years post that article. They hadn't even finished the first lap at the Nurenburgring yet.

In the spirit of the letter I agree "the 914 chassis is good for 150 bhp more than the /6 now has". It simply has to be modified to accept such an increase, which means I'll stand by what I said...

Posted by: soloracer Nov 9 2004, 01:48 PM

My thought is that most people do another engine conversion purely because of budget. That is my case for certain. I would love to put a 993 twin turbo monster in my car and get the power I desire however when I look at the old bank account and start up the adding machine I find that I'm many uber dollars short. Even if I managed to scrape together enough for the engine I would be afraid to drive it because if it ever blew up I would need to hijack another Brinks truck to get it back on the road. So I picked a motor that was still somewhat exotic, easily makes over 400 hp and will cost me $1500 US to rebuild if I need to.

I voted #3 because I see nothing wrong with stuffing another motor in however I would personally prefer to stay all Porsche if I could. Why settle for less than you really desire just to keep the brand name the same?

Posted by: mharrison Nov 9 2004, 02:51 PM

Well, it's your car, do what you want with it. But, I'll be keeping Porsche power under that little bitty engine cover!

I've seen some REALLY nice conversions though. I'm scared to drive a v-8 conversion. I'm afraid I'd want one!

Posted by: Eric_Shea Nov 9 2004, 03:54 PM

Another? Something you want to get off your chest?

(we won't tell... honest)

Posted by: neo914-6 Nov 9 2004, 04:27 PM

How "original"? 70's bias ply tires, no synthetic fluids, oil shocks, brake compounds, spark plugs, etc.??? I'll bet there are only a handfull of museum cars that actually fall within this category...
I enjoyed building my V8 914 in my 20's but my next 914 will be heavily modified to modern standards. My age and requirements have changed and I don't want to live in the past. I want my daughter to be able to drive it daily when she is old enough

Posted by: balljoint Nov 9 2004, 05:54 PM

Soooo far I am only thinking about restoring the car with the existing 4 cylinder, although I am considering a larger displacement motor. I love the various hybrids out there, but I think that I will always stick with an air-cooled P-engine for my own ride.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 9 2004, 07:09 PM

As I get older... and the cars get older... I appreciate the concourse cars.

I strive to use OE hardware anywhere I can. I go out of my way to fix electrical problems WITHOUT adding a single wire. I'll even use OE wire if I need to replace something.


B

Posted by: carreraguy Nov 9 2004, 07:17 PM

Hard for me to vote but I selected the first option. When I got my '76 last year it was low mileage and almost totally stock and I decided to keep it that way since it was so original. That being said, if I had enough garage space (and $$) I would definitely be on the lookout for a well-done 6 cylinder (Porsche engine only) conversion!

Posted by: type47fan Nov 9 2004, 10:37 PM

"To each his own. . ." That's one of the things that makes the USA a geat place to live (can I say that here?).

I've been a VW/Porsche fan since the early '60s. I used to be a purist and have been a concour weenie. Now I'm just an old weenie. In the sunset of my years, I enjoy customizing my favorite car (914) anyway I feel like and can afford. I'm a excellent driver and really enjoy the total experience of a 300 hp SBC with the noisy gear drive whining right behind my head as I cruise the mountain roads or freeways early Saturday mornings in southern California.

I really enjoy this board because of all of the diversity and acceptance (most of the time) displayed by the membership. I know how hard I work to keep my 30 year old ride operational and I know the rest of you are equally committed. Keep ém rolling, in any form.

Thanks, Wayne (type47fan)

Posted by: dan10101 Nov 9 2004, 11:04 PM

I like um all

Heavy Metal, Rock, Country, Pop, Alternative, Clasiscal they all have their place.

Cars, as long as they are built safely and the owner/driver likes the car, then I'm happy. What others think should not dictate what you drive. I don't want to drive what everyone else is driving.

There are 2 red 944 turbos in my town of 200k. They both sit in my driveway. One is virtually stock (for now), the other is a used and abused hot rod. The third "Porsche" in our family sits in the garage since it's missing a window. It's not anything Ferry would approve of. We didn't build it for him. The SBC made the car fun again for us. And so far no one in the PCA has thumbed their nose at us.

Do I like a perfect concours restored 914 4 or 6? Yes, it brings back memories of days past. Would I own one? No, because I know I wouldn't keep it stock. I'll leave it to those who will care and appreciate them for what they are.

Let's see, which cars I would own and leave stock...
69 427 Corvette
65 427 Cobra
A handful of other muscle cars.
2005 Z07 - Na scratch that one, I'd change something.

Saw a great Rides show on 'Rat Rods'. They built up a Model T. Running train and some body work, no top or interior to speak of. By their standards it was done. Even took it to a car show. If we thought like they did, Andrews car would be done. We don't though, Andrew will finish his and it will be a head turner. Until then, it's Rat Rod 914...

I've bored you all enough...


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Posted by: anthony Nov 9 2004, 11:29 PM

I guess I'm more of a purist. I like to see these cars with aircooled Porsche engines. That said, I do appreciate well done high-end V8 conversions. And I'm sure they cost just as much as putting a big six in a 914.

Who wouldn't want this in their 914 (3.5L twin plug)??:


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Posted by: krk Nov 10 2004, 01:47 AM

Not boring at all! Great pic! (In fact, I love the idea of 914-rat-rods)

Oh, on the "pristine list", I'd add a GT40, just for fun.

kim.