Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Dash switches on Euro 914/6 cars- photos please
Posted by: Hawk Jan 8 2013, 04:32 PM
specifically looking for the correct face type and placement of the rear foglight switch. Thx.
Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 8 2013, 04:37 PM
rear fog light should come on with the front fogs - yes?
interesting question, because many Euro 914/6 came with driving lights, not fogs...
but I don't think there's a separate switch.
Posted by: whatabout1 Jan 8 2013, 05:33 PM
There are allot of great photos over here
http://www.pbase.com/9146gt
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 8 2013, 06:18 PM
Ummmmm... HELLO!!! Aren't you suppose to be enjoying a beach in Puerto Rico right about now?
Put your wife on... I wanna have a talk with her! 
Spoke to Tim yesterday.
Posted by: Hawk Jan 8 2013, 08:00 PM
Ummmmm... HELLO!!! Aren't you suppose to be enjoying a beach in Puerto Rico right about now?
Put your wife on... I wanna have a talk with her!
Spoke to Tim yesterday.
Ha ha!
But I am enjoying myself and thanks for all your help. Much appreciated Eric. Back to the pina colada
Posted by: Hawk Jan 9 2013, 06:32 AM
Thanks for the reference to the http://www.pbase.com/9146gt website. Many photos of interesting American "restorations" or modifications. Note how many have the late version of the front foglight switch. I didnt see a clean Euro car example though.
Looking at the correct switch for the fronts, Im unclear how the rear light could be connected to that one switch. ?
Looking for Tom to tell us how he did his rear foglight electricals.
-hawk
Attached image(s)
Posted by: TJB/914 Jan 9 2013, 06:43 AM
Thanks for the reference to the http://www.pbase.com/9146gt website. Many photos of interesting American "restorations" or modifications. Note how many have the late version of the front foglight switch. I didnt see a clean Euro car example though.
Looking at the correct switch for the fronts, Im unclear how the rear light could be connected to that one switch. ?
Looking for Tom to tell us how he did his rear foglight electricals.
-hawk
Hawk,
I have a rear fog light wiring harness still in a bag that's not installed yet. It's available to make a copy for your car. About (3) rear fog light wiring harnesses were special made by Bowlsby for individuals a few years ago. I wonder if Bowlsby still has the wiring specs to make another run??? Jeff are you listening??
Tom
Posted by: Hawk Jan 9 2013, 07:04 AM
Thanks for the reference to the http://www.pbase.com/9146gt website. Many photos of interesting American "restorations" or modifications. Note how many have the late version of the front foglight switch. I didnt see a clean Euro car example though.
Looking at the correct switch for the fronts, Im unclear how the rear light could be connected to that one switch. ?
Looking for Tom to tell us how he did his rear foglight electricals.
-hawk
Hawk,
I have a rear fog light wiring harness still in a bag that's not installed yet. It's available to make a copy for your car. About (3) rear fog light wiring harnesses were special made by Bowlsby for individuals a few years ago. I wonder if Bowlsby still has the wiring specs to make another run??? Jeff are you listening??
Tom
Thanks Tom. What did you use for a switch? I have a correct NOS Euro Hella foglight kit that came with a switch that lights up. Wonder if these are correct for a Euro car?
Posted by: TJB/914 Jan 9 2013, 07:30 AM
Thanks for the reference to the http://www.pbase.com/9146gt website. Many photos of interesting American "restorations" or modifications. Note how many have the late version of the front foglight switch. I didnt see a clean Euro car example though.
Looking at the correct switch for the fronts, Im unclear how the rear light could be connected to that one switch. ?
Looking for Tom to tell us how he did his rear foglight electricals.
-hawk
Hawk,
I have a rear fog light wiring harness still in a bag that's not installed yet. It's available to make a copy for your car. About (3) rear fog light wiring harnesses were special made by Bowlsby for individuals a few years ago. I wonder if Bowlsby still has the wiring specs to make another run??? Jeff are you listening??
Tom
Thanks Tom. What did you use for a switch? I have a correct NOS Euro Hella foglight kit that came with a switch that lights up. Wonder if these are correct for a Euro car?
Hawk,
Wolfgang is probably the guy to answer this question. He lives in Europe and has a 914-6 euro car & hangs on this forum. Wolfgang are you listening?? Need your help.
Also, what's his name (Smith) in Mass. might know, he stated this whole rear fog light must have accessory. 
I haven't hooked up my electrical yet, I just mounted the rear fog light for looks. It's my spring project before Parade in June.
Tom
Posted by: Hawk Jan 9 2013, 07:47 AM
Thanks for the reference to the http://www.pbase.com/9146gt website. Many photos of interesting American "restorations" or modifications. Note how many have the late version of the front foglight switch. I didnt see a clean Euro car example though.
Looking at the correct switch for the fronts, Im unclear how the rear light could be connected to that one switch. ?
Looking for Tom to tell us how he did his rear foglight electricals.
-hawk
Hawk,
I have a rear fog light wiring harness still in a bag that's not installed yet. It's available to make a copy for your car. About (3) rear fog light wiring harnesses were special made by Bowlsby for individuals a few years ago. I wonder if Bowlsby still has the wiring specs to make another run??? Jeff are you listening??
Tom
Thanks Tom. What did you use for a switch? I have a correct NOS Euro Hella foglight kit that came with a switch that lights up. Wonder if these are correct for a Euro car?
Hawk,
Wolfgang is probably the guy to answer this question. He lives in Europe and has a 914-6 euro car & hangs on this forum. Wolfgang are you listening?? Need your help.
Also, what's his name (Smith) in Mass. might know, he stated this whole rear fog light must have accessory. I haven't hooked up my electrical yet, I just mounted the rear fog light for looks. It's my spring project before Parade in June.
Tom
Since you will be first, I volunteer to help you, for what it's worth
I did PM Wolfgang for a photo of his Austrian-based set up.
Posted by: Jasfsmith Jan 9 2013, 08:51 AM
specifically looking for the correct face type and placement of the rear foglight switch. Thx.
My 914-6 euro car has a separate switch (matches the US fog light switch). It must be wired to the low beam headlights as it will only light when the low beams are on.
Posted by: mr914 Jan 9 2013, 09:23 AM
Back on vacation mode, hawk 
Besides, Hawk is not a wrench turner, by trade.
Wouldn't all of us like to work on our 914s 
while we are on vacation.
40s and 50s here
Freezing temps waiting for you when you get back 
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 9 2013, 10:47 AM
I ran one of those double spades off my switch and it works when I turn the fronts. Seemed logical to me.
Posted by: Gustl Jan 9 2013, 02:51 PM
Wolfgang is probably the guy to answer this question. He lives in Europe and has a 914-6 euro car & hangs on this forum. Wolfgang are you listening??
unfortunately, my ex 914-6 (Euro car, from Germany) had a non original switch
from my best knowledge, the rear fog light switch had to be illuminated (by law)
the position should be right to the steering column
I've no photos of a factory original rear fog light switch
Gustl Posted by: Hawk Jan 9 2013, 03:44 PM
specifically looking for the correct face type and placement of the rear foglight switch. Thx.
My 914-6 euro car has a separate switch (matches the US fog light switch). It must be wired to the low beam headlights as it will only light when the low beams are on.
That's a positive finding with an N =1. If this is a separate green fog switch, is it mounted to the right of the lighter? If you have a heated rear window, where does it lie in relation to that?
Thanks much,
Hawk
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jan 9 2013, 04:02 PM
How about this one? Its a /4 but thats all I have.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jan 9 2013, 04:04 PM
Well I have the RHD /6 but its not factory...
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Hawk Jan 9 2013, 05:49 PM
Well I have the RHD /6 but its not factory...
Jeff,
Is that hooked to a rear foglight as well as the fronts? I have that for the fronts already on this 6.
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jan 9 2013, 06:00 PM
Couldnt tell you for sure. These are just photos from my archive of interesting 914s I have encountered.
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 9 2013, 08:41 PM
interesting question, because many Euro 914/6 came with driving lights, not fogs...
but I don't think there's a separate switch
euro 914-6, imported and stored since 1979.
I will go visit it and determine, If it has a switch on the right and or bolt holes for rear fog.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Hawk Jan 9 2013, 09:49 PM
Here is an example of incorrect switch faces for 914/6 (tan fog and red triangle hazard). The correct switches would be a green fog and red VW 88 emergency.
Im seeking examples of what's on the right side of the column in a Euro car equipped with a rear fog light so those of us on the wrong side of the pond can get it right Some have mentioned that these rear fogs were custom fit at Euro dealers. If so, what dash switch options existed out there? I know that in American cars, closest to the column is the lighter switch and in some cars the rear window defroster switch next. But anything else? Like a separate rear fog light switch as mentioned above? :0
Any of our European 914 brethren out there?
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Gustl Jan 9 2013, 11:38 PM
Some have mentioned that these rear fogs were custom fit at Euro dealers.
the rear fog light was a factory option - M571
my ex Sporto had it on the COA
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 10 2013, 06:00 AM
The photo in the Betriebsanleitung seems to show that the rear defroster switch is immediately to the right of the lighter. Its fuzzy.
Donno why anyone thinks there would be a separate switch; the light goes on with the foglights. There isn't a separate switch for the high beam indicator light - it comes on with the high beams.
If you _really_ want to know where it's connected - look at the wiring diagram...
Posted by: Hawk Jan 10 2013, 06:46 AM
The photo in the Betriebsanleitung seems to show that the rear defroster switch is immediately to the right of the lighter. Its fuzzy.
Donno why anyone thinks there would be a separate switch; the light goes on with the foglights. There isn't a separate switch for the high beam indicator light - it comes on with the high beams.
If you _really_ want to know where it's connected - look at the wiring diagram...
Makes sense. And yes I have many photos showing a rear window defroster switch to the right of the lighter. This current 6 I have has a 3rd open hole next to the radio, which is what I surmise to have been a rear foglight switch. Real world and wiring diagrams may depart. Looking forward to hearing from our European colleagues.
Posted by: Jasfsmith Jan 10 2013, 09:26 AM
specifically looking for the correct face type and placement of the rear foglight switch. Thx.
My 914-6 euro car has a separate switch (matches the US fog light switch). It must be wired to the low beam headlights as it will only light when the low beams are on.
I should add that I have factory driving lights and not fog lights up front. The driving lights only come on with the high beams, however can be flashed via the column level when the low beams are on.
Foglight controlled by the low beam power makes since as high beams would not be logically selected while driving in fog.
Switch for the rear fog is second frm the left.
Posted by: Hawk Jan 10 2013, 09:35 AM
specifically looking for the correct face type and placement of the rear foglight switch. Thx.
My 914-6 euro car has a separate switch (matches the US fog light switch). It must be wired to the low beam headlights as it will only light when the low beams are on.
I should add that I have factory driving lights and not fog lights up front. The driving lights only come on with the high beams, however can be flashed via the column level when the low beams are on.
Foglight controlled by the low beam power makes since as high beams would not be logically selected while driving in fog.
Switch for the rear fog is second frm the left.
That's an interesting and unique combo you have there. I will show you mine if you show me yours (the dash switch photo that is)
OK, me first, here's what Ive got to the right of the column. A three-fer.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: TJB/914 Jan 10 2013, 03:05 PM
specifically looking for the correct face type and placement of the rear foglight switch. Thx.
My 914-6 euro car has a separate switch (matches the US fog light switch). It must be wired to the low beam headlights as it will only light when the low beams are on.
I should add that I have factory driving lights and not fog lights up front. The driving lights only come on with the high beams, however can be flashed via the column level when the low beams are on.
Foglight controlled by the low beam power makes since as high beams would not be logically selected while driving in fog.
Switch for the rear fog is second frm the left.
That's an interesting and unique combo you have there. I will show you mine if you show me yours (the dash switch photo that is)
OK, me first, here's what Ive got to the right of the column. A three-fer.
Hmmm, 58,073 KL equals = 38,084 Miles.
T
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 10 2013, 07:03 PM
Hawk,
Looks to me like you have an additional lighter socket added. Maybe to accommodate a more modern/smaller plug? 
(P.S. Bring back rum)
Posted by: Hawk Jan 10 2013, 07:25 PM
Hawk,
Looks to me like you have an additional lighter socket added. Maybe to accommodate a more modern/smaller plug?
(P.S. Bring back rum)
Eric,
I just spoke to the PO who said he wired nothing since he bought it in 1977 in Germany. He believes that the switch to the left is a rheostat added to control wiper speed. I will need to trace the one on the right when I get the car back with your goodies. Cant wait! And thanks.
BTW, Im sick of rum now.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 10 2013, 10:46 PM
Both yours and Elliott's S-Calipers went in to anodizing today. We put a rush on both (because those guys are so slow).
You should go see Volkyland while there!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VOLKYLAND-MUSEO-DEL-VOLKSWAGEN-DE-PUERTO-RICO/113449328668043
Posted by: Hawk Jan 11 2013, 05:52 AM
Both yours and Elliott's S-Calipers went in to anodizing today. We put a rush on both (because those guys are so slow).
You should go see Volkyland while there!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VOLKYLAND-MUSEO-DEL-VOLKSWAGEN-DE-PUERTO-RICO/113449328668043
Neat! Good tip and timing cuz today is a travel day to the sites day. Yauco is past Mayaguez toward Ponce from where Im at.
Posted by: Jasfsmith Jan 11 2013, 08:27 AM
[/quote]
That's an interesting and unique combo you have there. I will show you mine if you show me yours (the dash switch photo that is)
OK, me first, here's what Ive got to the right of the column. A three-fer.
[/quote]
Left to right, headlight switch, rear fog switch, hazard flasher switch, ignition switch.
Interesting to note, my column controls do not have the id tags. Never has as far as I can tell. No signs of scratches from removal attempts. All the replacement ones have English langauage descriptors under the symbols (i.e. wiper, left, right). I see yours does not have the text portion.
BTW, you can add a 100,000 km to the odmeter reading. Still running strong....
Posted by: Gint Jan 11 2013, 10:00 PM
Both yours and Elliott's S-Calipers went in to anodizing today. We put a rush on both (because those guys are so slow).
You should go see Volkyland while there!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VOLKYLAND-MUSEO-DEL-VOLKSWAGEN-DE-PUERTO-RICO/113449328668043
Neat! Good tip and timing cuz today is a travel day to the sites day. Yauco is past Mayaguez toward Ponce from where Im at.
Posted by: Hawk Jan 12 2013, 08:32 AM
Here is what I have learned about the rear fog light on these early 1970s cars and why there may be variation in how they are connected and switched.
Although the first rear fog lamp was introduced in Germany in 1966 by Hella, the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe, abbreviated ECE, only issued approval for European-wide use of rear fog lamps in 1978 with regulation ECE R38. Rear fog lamps did not become mandatory in Europe until 1991 under regulation ECE R48. In the US they are still not mandatory.
Unlike the front fog lamps, which should already be used as soon as visibility is poor, the rear fog light should only be switched on when visibility is less than 50 meters. I read this as a driver being able to manually control the switch for the rear fog light, not one that is hooked to the existing driving light switch or front fog light switch as in our early car era the switches were primitive. The reason is that the rear fog light emits 30 times more light than the rear running lights and so when visibility is better, it has the effect of blinding the drivers behind.
So as in life, hook up as you see fit. Just keep it legal 
Posted by: TJB/914 Jan 12 2013, 01:44 PM
Hawk,
The body (fog light issue) is not dead yet. 
I learned some time ago & confirmed by Wolfgang after he sent me a Euro fog light that there is a difference in Euro & US Rear Fog Lamps??
*Euro fogs are chrome & US versions are flat/satin black.
*Euro lens are more flat & US ones are a little thicker (see photo for comparsion).
*The inside trunk bracket is still available from Germany & the outside bracket is NLA. You have to make one.
Can anyone else confirm what's really Euro & US??? Just wondering, it really does not matter in 914-World as long a you have one. All the cool kids have one. 
Tom
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Hawk Jan 12 2013, 04:19 PM
Very complete, Tom, thanks. It's my understanding that the vintage rear fogs look like what you call Euro and the ones available anywhere now are what you call US. The smooth bordered ones are priced at a premium as NOS Hella stock. The external bracket will be a challenge.
Posted by: Jasfsmith Jan 14 2013, 08:46 AM
Hawk,
The body (fog light issue) is not dead yet.
I learned some time ago & confirmed by Wolfgang after he sent me a Euro fog light that there is a difference in Euro & US Rear Fog Lamps??
*Euro fogs are chrome & US versions are flat/satin black.
*Euro lens are more flat & US ones are a little thicker (see photo for comparsion).
*Tom
The lense on the left is Euro (or at least the early version lense). The chrome housing is an early version as well.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 14 2013, 05:38 PM
Chrome rear fogs can be purchased new...
http://www.justkampers.com/111-999-222-a-rear-foglamp-for-vw-beetle-t2-split-t2-bay-and-t25.html
They do come with a new style bulb holder (which you can swap out for the early bayonet style) and the new style lens seen on the right above (which, again, you can swap out if you happen to have the early style).
Pretty cheap too... 
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 16 2013, 06:36 PM
Photos from my install:
Ealry lens, just looks like the late lens when all lit up. It is Bright!
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)