What's it been? A year since I got Blackie running. I finally get it tuned to a daily driver status and should have been happy as a Lark then but what do I do? I sold the engine (w/90 hour's on the Hobbs) on the last Dawn Patrol GMR run. So I pulled the engine and began preparing Blackie for her transformation.
Before I go any further check out my Jack Stands. Min height 19.5", 12 ton and should hold up to a 6.7 quake or direct nuclear attack.
And out she comes.
One thing you have to love about these cars is that you can remove an interior in 15 minutes. 30 min's if you have a console. This was one shot before the interior is gutted.
and an hour later I'm scraping tar floorboards.
So after a couple of hours this is what I found beneath the tar. A little surface rust that should brush off with a cup brush. I did not skin the tunnel as it is above any suspect areas and I have looked inside the tunnel before with a camera. The two floorboards together yielded 9.8 lb's of tar.
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So the pans look great but look what I found. I had heard that these engine/firewall blankets were nothing but a water trap and now I'm a believer. I guess I should be happy that this is as bad as it gets. Just a little more . BTW, is the firewall 16 or 18ga? Here are 2 pic's of the R side:
And the R side:
It's going to be colder than a well diggers ass in January the next few days so I may lay off the car a few days but after it's cleaned, primed it's time for the Engman Kit.
Only 90 hours on the engine..? I think I have somewhere around 230 hours on my engine since you gave me that hobbs meter, and I've had the meter installed for half as long as the motor was in your car..
Good to see you making progress on this though Kent. I want a ride once it's finished
Whats your plan Kent?
Plan? I knew I forgot something, The plan, quite simply put, is more power.
A 6 cyl, most likely a 3.3 Suby as SVX's are plentiful and cheap or 3.0 with a Suby 5-6 speed trans, A/C and a suspension upgrade in a narrow bodied sleeper. I'm not ruling out a 3.2 w/ Motronic but I doubt one of those is going to land on my plate. Keep in mind that I have CSOB eating habits. The other part of my plan is to educate myself and to have fun while I'm doing it. I look at my '73 as a blank slate awaiting my decision. But no matter which route I go I need to install this Engman kit and some of RacerChris' reinforcement parts.
Before the fitting can happen I need to locate the weld areas so they can be cleaned and prepped. A black felt tip works but a white one would have been better with a black paint job.
I needed to remove a bit of the polyurethane foot material now or put the fire out later.
With all the weld areas marked it is just a matter of hitting it with a steel cup brush.
Just about then Ceasar (phatt911)pulls up with Dave (silverinsocal) and his brother-in-law to help me with my conversion. You see, I needed to sell my 4 cylinder as I now have no use for it. Beside it was time. I had 90.2 hr's on it since rebuild. No worries. I enjoy the build more than the ride. And with all this new work I should be one happy guy for the next year or so. So adios engine y vaya con Dios, Ceasar.
So, weld areas are sanded, cleaned and hit with some Weld thru Primer.
Now the pieces can begin to be fitted. All seam sealer needs to be removed before they fit correctly. And in my case just a tad bit of trimming of the piece(s).
There are places that need to be bent or formed and it looks like I will need to do a few spot welds before I begin manipulating the pieces for final fit. The parts are pre cut to allow easy bending and forming. You can see the slots in the pieces that allow this.
Nice work and pictures. Keep 'em coming please.
Awesome. I need to do an Engman kit myself. You'll be ahead of me in a week!
Sure no prob. I have learned that no matter how cheap you think it will be ...it will always fall into line with most other options.
The car was $600. It was mechanically great but cosmetically not so good. I was able to drive it home which was a plus. Most important thing is to listen and observe the engine...when you start it, it should idle about 1500 or so, then settle to a very even idle of 800ish. Watch the temp and look under it for leaks. You should be able to tell if it's strong or not. Expect to change the seals unless you get lucky like BIGKAT and find one that is practically new. These leak oil just like 911 engines after a while.
At this point the stuff has totaled:
Car - $600
WRX Trans and flywheel - $800
coldwaterconversions stuff (everything but the hard engine mounts) $1375
Custom exhaust and related goodies, plus another mount - $350
Engine seals, timing belt, spark plugs, etc ~$400ish
1990-1992 Honda Accord shifter - $40 shipped
Still need radiator hoses, cable shift linkage, cables, some CV joints, a clutch disc, slave cylinder, etc. Probably another $800 or so.
Keep in mind that you can part out the SVX and recoup some costs. All of the small stuff can be sold (switches, controls, mirrors, interior stuff, lenses). The differentials, axles/cv's and most importantly a good trans are worth $. Also the leather interiors are very desirable. SVXWorld.com is a good place to sell stuff. Just wait til I am done (Kidding, it doesn't matter there are several part-outs on there now). A metal scrapper paid $150 for the shell. I'll sell my current TIV engine, side shift trans, linkage, etc. (hey side shift conversion people!)and should be looking pretty good. I will also do a 5 lug conversion. Already bought the wheels. Got a great line on the rest as well... I figure the net will be $6k ish...so let's call it $12k.
The cool thing about the SVX is it's very powerful in stock form so you can use most of the stock components as well as the niceties like air cond, real heater, etc. You can also use the fuel pump which makes it convenient. And they are pretty cheap. They are extremely similar to 914's. Manufactured roughly the same number of years, quirky but cool, a little too expensive when new, all years are identical shells with small cosmetic revisions each year. They are in the same place 914's were in the late '90's...lots of part-outs, not a lot of love, small following of fanatics... weird....
Thx Chris. Great info. I didn't know about the Honda shifter so I'll be watching your thread. Bigcat is a wealth of info for sure. I'll end up PM'ing him to death before this is over.
Edit: ordered the 5" firewall section from Restoration Design. I'm glad they are an active member here because that "shipping quoted after the sale" would have scared the crap out of me, otherwise.
Yeah even if mine takes too long and costs too much it's been worth it to get to know so many talented people.
Good luck with the firewall replacement. At least you found it before it did any damage to the floors.
You actually trust those jack stands??
Now that this Artic cold spell has passed I was able to get a few hours in towards installing the stiffies. I think that sounds current, don't you? I mean no one says vegetables anymore. It's always veggies. So why should they be called stiffners. I suppose one would have to be careful and reference each as a "right or left' stiffie while never using the generic term "a long stiffie". I decided before I began welding I should prep the floors for paint. I pulled the pedal assm and it was junky looking but not as bad as it looks here. It will clean up nicely should it be needed.
The pedal area had a little surface rust but it's a bitch to grind in that area so I phosfo'd it after a light brushing and then shot some primer/sealer on it.
A few shots of the rear stiffie after most of the welds on the face but before the top piece is bent over and welded.
And after the top tab is bent and welded in a few more spots. That's as far as I'm going today but there will be a few more welds/grinding then on to the "right long stiffie".
OK this is the first time I have seen this thread and I have to say it........don't climb under the car on those jack stands!!
This is a must read! http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=70117&st=0
I got around to welding on the r&l long stiffners before I ran out of wire. First thing was to get it supported on the killer jack stands. These were perfect because I wasn't under the car and they are low enough that I can get my ancient ass in & out when welding.
Next was to level it. I used the bubble and the electronic app. Both work great.
I then marked 3 spots on each door and measured the gaps before I began welding onto the longs.
When I was banging around bracing the panels with 2 x's I knocked the big urethane floorboard piece loose. I was going to work around it if possible just to preserve that OG floor so this is a plus.
A little more scraping with the razor. mineral spirits to remove the old glue and remaining tar and this too will be clean in 20 min's.
Talk about Engman Quality. Look at the fit between the rear and left piece.
Same view but tacked up
Nice work man!
John
Here is another view of the same corner but with the top of the corner piece now formed to meet the rounded corner.
A close up of that "formed" piece. Me thinks beat to death is more appropriate.
And this is where I'm at until I get by the welding shop and restock my .023.
That bottom right hole that is blown wasn't cleaned so I'll move left 3mm and tack it in the seam where it is clean.
I finally finished the welding of the Engman kit. I didn't purty it up for these pic's. I still need to grind down a few welds, vacuum and prime the bare spots. It looks like Hell now but a little Wurth's and some paint will clean it up. I'm glad that I ran out of the .023 because I also bought some .030 and had much better results on the longs w/ the .030. Faster = less heat. Doors shut just as sweet as before. It's back on the ground. Into the Hell Hole and on to the firewall patch next. I need to clean up some p/o welds around the hinges and battery tray. I think they attempted arc welding. Looks like a mud dabbers nest. I guess I had better start thinking cooling while I'm in the cut n patch mode.
and
fantastic pics
do you plan to seam seal the entire perimeter and perferations?
Thx Jim, and yes I have some Wurth's seam sealer that will go on before I paint it.
Just got off the phone after discussing metal shrinkage with Ceasar (phatt911) and realized that this might be of some use to those considering a stiffner kit. As shown in an earlier pic, I measured the door gap at 3 equidistant locations on both doors prior to any welding on the long portions. I did NOT brace the door but did this instead. After leveling (and that is a trick) the car I would weld 3 spots (front, middle and rear to keep the weld spots spread out) on one side and then move to the other side and repeat. Never welding any area unless the metal was cool enough to place my dinkus upon. If additional time was needed I would do some grinding instead. After 6 or 8 welds on each side I would check the door gaps again. I welded all of the vertical spots (or sides) before doing the tops. The shrinkage that I experienced was .37mm after welding the sides. After welding the top portions the shrinkage increased to 1mm nominally. Or .63mm. Amazing! Half the area and half as many holes as the sides, yet twice the shrinkage. I had suspected this might be the case and had therefor left the top on during construction just in case. I think that bracing the door is the more prudent action but I like to test the water for myself from time to time and these are my results. Disclaimer: Your results will probably vary.
Here are my before and after dimensions. Red is after, units are in inches. The lower parts of the door gap didn't change much, so I omitted those.
Andys
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Similar results. Within .01" (.027mm) +/- of each other.
This should make the Dawn Patrols more interesting, now we're all going to have "stiffy" envy
Top notch details on the Engman install. Thanks a lot for posting.
So I started with the firewall patch/repair today. Here is the psg side before cutting.
and this was the drv side
some beginning cuts removing just the rust areas and then enlarging the cuts in preparation for final trimming.
lfjuysblfc
*subscribed*
in the same boat. i'll take all the knowledge i can get! (never touched a welder before.. got one for christmas. this'll be my first "small" project with it)
So while I wait for the "correct" size of steel to patch the firewall I thought I would clean up the engine compartment and see if I could find anymore rust. There is a bunch of the old mat stuck to it..........
And this looks a little suspicious. Rivets and a rough finish on the panel.
Then there is the matter of this booger by the PO.
So I drill out the rivets and look what I find. Has anyone seen these before. Obviously stamped steel so mfg'd by someone.
Once they're out this is all that was left of the tray. The pedestal was in good shape but I doubt I will relo a batt here.
Couple of pic's while getting cleaned. These holes need to be welded up
And a small patch here
One booger mostly ground down
%90 clean. A little more here and there then patch n prime. The side wall behind the batt cleaned up pretty good, too. A little pitted so it will be treated to a phospho shower.
The rest has cleaned up quite well.
So I need to fill some holes where the batt tray was riveted to the panel. If you look closely you can see the copper spoon thru the holes.
and now they're ground down and gone
a shot of primer to ward off the rust gods
Here is another spot that needs to be filled. Oops, I need to re-size these pic's and continue in the next post.
future
OK so here we go again. This is the area behind the drivers behind. Immediately to the right of this pic is the pull tube attach for the engine lid release. More on that later.
Another look at it from below, looking up. See the crack of light? No you can't because it's the last pic in this post. Don't know how I did that but could'nt correct it. lol
The backup spoon in place..........
Another look at it from the cabin side this time. Flash really puts a tinge to the color. Anyway you can clearly see the copper in the pic.
In this pic you can see where the crack was filled and ground down (on the left side). See the "V" area to the right that has rusted away. Imagine that area going another 1" down and that is how far the rust traveled on the back side. This area is close to that pull tube which gets a lot of work so I want to reinforce this area.
In order to do this I need to make a pattern.....
And a piece of .045".
The pattern is taped in place and traced onto the steel piece.
A quick cut out. This piece will be trimmed and edges polished with 3M wheel before it is welded in place.
Initial fitting.........
See the saw blade? It's laying on what is left of the old flange. It does 2 things. It gives an accurated location for a bend reference and #2, with a little movement it will scribe your piece for you.
With the piece scribed (I marked the scribes w/felt tip to show in the pic's) we are ready to mark the bend line. I thought we just did? Well close. Our mark is where we want the bottom of our flange to end up, right? To get there accurately we have to take a couple of things into account. The thickness of our metal and the bend radius. In this case the metal is .047" and the bend radius is .0675". Add those 2 numbers together, subtract them from your reference line and mark your bend line.
Years ago I did this and you might also. These cheap Chinese vices are good for something. It's quite easy to radius "one" jaw with a file, quickly. It can be done with a long file in <5 min's and won't effect future operations. Notice the jaw on the left is radius-ed. This next part isn't important unless you want it to fit so pay attention. Notice the feeler gage. The base of it is aligned with the scribe mark on the new bend line. You cannot see it but it is at the top of the fat lower ink line which is for illustration. The point is that the bend line "must" be aligned with the top of the jaw(or bottom of feeler gage).
I'm using a piece of hardwood but it could be a piece of square tube as well. But I slowly hammer it down being careful to not let the wood piece rise as it is tapped. BTW, anything longer than this would require my brake but his is < 6" so no biggie.
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Here we see it taking shape..
Now it is almost flat or at a 90' angle but that's as far as it is going here because of "springback" so I remove it now. Yes, I see the edge needs trimming.
Here is the piece out of the vice, Just needs some weld holes drilled into it.
And fitted into place
And welded in place
Looking good Kent but who is this jester for? or were you showing the metal who's boss
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Hah, good one Andy! Just trying to hold it for the pic. I finally received the 20 ga metal today. First time they shipped 17 ga, oops. Anyway they were great about it. Bobco metals in LA. They are on the net and ship. Remember this? The psg side
and the drvrs side
Here is a shot of the psg side pattern being traced
with the flash off you can see what I see, easy enough to trace out
this is the first rough cut of the drvr side firewall patch piece
The piece placed against the firewall to check overall fit and mark for trim
and a compound curve
this is one of my CSOB tools I made out of water pump pliers and an old lawn mower blade years ago. with the piece firmly clamped a piece of .050" (6160) aluminum which is radiused, shown in the next pic, is driven into the steel right next to the fixture holding it. This is what created the raised portion that was necessary to meet the existing material
starting to take shape
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and the pass side, not much to it
a little grinding and a little primer then it's on to the radiator
Well, with the rust repair (I think) behind me it's time to move on to the new water cooling system. I've ordered twin fan set up from EBay (thx for the tip BigKat) that I will use to begin some initial mock ups. For $45 incl shpg I can't go too wrong. If the size works I'll order a radiator to match. After a lot of reading I've decided to go the rubber hose route. Originally I believed that I wanted to run copper behind the valance thru the gussets but I thought I should avoid the plating process . While waiting for something to cool or dry I gave this a try with pleasing results. I know where I'm running my hoses now.
I also will be ducting thru the wheels but noticed a dent/crease on the R side. I know that area will be hacked but I needed to know if this was under stress before I began removing any material. The floor pan beneath the spare is beat to shit from bottoming out but I wasn't sure if it was a result of impact so hence my concern for the dent. It's hard to see in these pic's but the area is outlined in blue tape.
And here is my body tool. A 12lb sledge hammer with a piece of foam insulation duct taped on the end to soften the blow.
And just then my neighbor who has a dentless repair business walked in and said "What are you doing?" I said, "waiting for you". He told me that I probably would have stretched it and ended up with a bow going the other way. Talk about falling in a bucket of and coming out smelling like a rose. Took him all of 2 min's. This is Jeremy
I asked Blackie if she was happy with her makeover. I think she approves.
It's been too long so I'll post what I have. I've held back because the first fan assm has a bad bearing on one of the units and I ordered the wrong replacement Jesus H. Anyway the radiator is held up in the snow storm so I went with "what I got" for now. I placed to fan unit for a quick birds eye view. Looks doable. Thanks for the tip BigCat. I went with your radiator suggestion too but it's not arrived.
My plan ( I'm playing like I know what I'm doing ) is to seal or box off the area immediately between the headlights to serve as a plenum of sorts. A quick temp install of the fans show they'll clear the sides enough.
In order to do this the "box" must be reasonably sealed and here are a few lightning holes on these ribs that need to be sealed with the cardboard templates attached.
A few more but with the templates for the side pieces that will double as seals and attach points, I think
A few blanks Wurther'd into place
Another view
Then the brutalization
Then back to work. Here are the pieces laid out, first trim, fit in place and awaiting final bends and attach points. But that will have to wait until the radiator arrives.
I'm going with a very good heater hose but not anything exorbitant. My heater hoses will not see the light of day so I see no need (at this time) to use green stripe or other big $$$ hoses. I was able to fish a piece thru the long w/o binding or kinking.
The trick is revealed. First fish the heater hose thru this vacuum/pool hose then fish the combination thru while rotating. The external hose has added benefits. It keeps the heater hose from crimping and adds some degree of wear protection to it, also. On final install I will trim the vac hose to conceal it. The metal opening will get a rubber grommet to center the heater hose where it passes thru on both ends. Will help to keep other critters out as well.
I'm glad this part is behind me. I had that thing in and out 50 times. Anywho, this is what I came up with. Let me clarify I; Bigcat suggested the radiator and fan set up. I just put em together. It's an Intrepid fan/s unit and Sirocco radiator. The fan set up is defective and was used as a mock up while a new one is shipped. The 2 are < $150 combined with shipping.
Here is the radiator/fan in it's removable frame.
A look at the radiator to frame attach point. There are two per side. and yes those are cheese head screws.
A side view of the same shot. That is a faucet washer compressed between the rad post and the frame.
The square 1" legs of the frame will sit over these posts
And the smaller round legs will sit atop these
The square receiver end gets a rubber cushion
With this slightly massage washer to protect the rubber from wearing against the post.
Then the unit is set and held in place by these hitch pins. For future access I will be able to remove all the radiator, shroud, etc. < 10 min's.
And in place
Man you are really moving fast! Great work!
I'm still re-sealing my 3.3 and doing all the maintenance stuff but hope to be done pretty soon.
Hey thanks, Chris. How's your's coming along? I was busy as Hell last week, didn't get done so I ended up on page 3. Got to hit it again yesterday so I did a final fit then welded in the side pieces that should mostly seal the gaps between the radiator and sides. There will be strips of felt or Armorflex between the metal and plastic radiator, eventually.
This piece will need to be massaged against the wall and then all seams and gaps get sealed with Wurth's at metal to metal junctions.
Then the bottom piece which was done with aluminum for obvious reasons.
The top/cover piece slides beneath the rain channel. This piece will be pop riveted in place to facilitate easy removal. Plate nuts, rivenuts or any other kind of nut would not work as the piece slides against the bottom of the channel and anything placed there would obstruct the travel of the cover piece. I'll use blind rivets which will not allow water thru like an ordinary pop rivet would. They're only pennies each and drill out in < 5 seconds each.
I was determined to keep the hood OG (sans Hood pins) so this is how I went about it. These screws will be replaced with black allen head cap screws.
Work has been keeping me busy so this is all that I've done.
Time to get the suspension upgraded. I've covered most of this in other threads but I thought I'd at least hit the highlights here so I can relive it from the old age home one day. 1st some 914 porn courtesy of PMB.
I began with the L front. I had done ball joints/tie rods, brakes, etc. previously so shocks were all that were necessary. The old shock was a blown out KYB which accounted for a noise I heard occasionally. When I dropped the new Bilstein it went 90% in and stopped. The old shock was narrow but this new one is fat and binding. Pulled it out and looked inside and found this bit of rust.
Ran a 2" wire fitting brush thru it several times. I even ran a rotary file over the areas that had rust, in case the metal had raised but it still would not fit.
I discovered that area where it bound was the spot where the brake tab is welded on. It probably took a hit there and PO replaced with these skinny shits as a go around. Anyway, my buddy Ethan had these laying around so I cleaned up the L one and I was back in business.
Bought this little tool to aid in refurbishing the trailing arms.
Pressing out the old bearing from the inside.
And here it is from the other side exiting the arm.
New poly bushings going in
Final assembly of the trailing arm
A few installed (less brakes) pics. Rear brake caliper rebuild is next.
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I would not recommend running your radiator lines through the heater ducts int he long. It's great coming from the engine bay. Not so great inside where it goes up & over by the gas tank. Just adds another high spot to your lines. Makes it damn near impossible to get all the air out of the line.
I had considered opening the long inside near the front just before the heater duct goes up. Then adding a small boxed in area at the passenger feet keeping the hose flat & going through right above the steering rack. Just thinking though.
I had my lines originally run through the heater ducts. Never got it to cool properly until I ran the lines under the car. I don't love the lines there but it has literally never been a problem with them down there. You progress is looking great
Hey Jamie, I thought of you last week when my Triton engine blew the spark plug out of #3. I hope that I don't have to run the lines beneath the car but I would if necessary. BTW, I'm going beneath the fuel tank. This might be SOT but I read about these high spots causing a problem because of the air that gets trapped and wondered if this might be a solution in some cases. For 50+ years the Heating and AC trades have used a Hoffman #89 Air Vent to correct this. Most boiler systems and all chill water systems employee these valves. Installed on the high point of any system it will vent out any air in the system, always and automatically. (I might be off one digit on the Hoffman #. It might be a #88. Senility ) Sent some more $$$$ to Eric Shea's retirement fund yesterday.
Kent,
Maybe ping member 914GT.. he ran his lines for his Chevy conversion under the car but used iron pipe, so there was no chance of it ripping open. They were ran up the indentations on the floor panel.
That was an excellent build! I'm bouncing between that idea and putting the hoses in the longs...Hurry up and find an engine Kent!
PS - My clutch stuff is coming Thursday.
Here's an idea for the under car hoses.
Bob
Love it Bob. Really cool alternative.
This is a car from Canada that is posted on a picture site. Its very nice. It has power steering and brakes.
The pictures are about 10 yrs old.
Bob
Chris, I've done everything but chant. Maybe I'll go see Miss Rudolf to get this mojo off my ass. And once I find an engine or donor car the flood gates will open and there will be 10 good deals that I could have waited on. I just keep finding some thing else to do while I wait.
Bob, I had heard of that but if I went beneath the car I would run rubber hose. I would rather face a problem with repairing the hose than with welding that up in BFE (which is where it always happens ). + it's got to weight 45 lb's. I wanted to ask if you had any clearance problems between the radiator hose and tie rod. Or, I think that's the route you showed in a pic.
914GT attached the pipes in a pretty unique way...his thread seems to have vanished though. I'll try to find the pics. Seemed very sturdy.
Kent, the sources I would scour if you want an SVX are:
Craigslist
http://www.subaru-svx.net
http://www.svxworldforums.com
And e-bay and the local classifieds. Get a whole car if you can so you don't have to wonder if you have all the stuff you need, plus you can drive it to make sure it runs well. Most seem to be listed for a lot more than what someone would sell it for RIGHT NOW WITH CASH. If you find one let me know, I can tell you what parts to keep. Not every part is worth $ like a teener.
I haven't posted here for a few days and thought that I had better get busy. If I'm doing the suspension I may as well do the brakes. I had previously done the fronts and now is the time for the rears. Check out Old Crusty. Not the Cap't., the caliper.....
So after dis assembly I'm left with this mess.....
one dirty Ebrake return spring......
one clean spring, BTW, I cleaned this spring in < 2 min's (and many other brake parts) with a $5 3/4" copper fitting brush which I sawed the wooden handle off of and then chucked it into my bench top drill press.
the brake lines were held with rubber jaws in the vise while I cleaned them with some sand cloth.
5 min's later
some Shea stuff
a little dab of self etching primer after parts are cleaned
a little paint. the red is a VHT caliper paint whilst the silver is.......well it's silver
some shiny parts
and one dress rehearsal before final assembly
and in place
EDIT: If an Admin drops in would you pls remove the last two pics that I somehow added as an attachment and cannot remove. TIA, kent
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Look what landed in my garage yesterday. Couldn't believe it happened so fast. Let me back up. 22 March I joined CoParts with the 30 day free trial membership. The Copart site lets people like you and me buy cars through an agent (ING in my case). There is a fee for this (300-400) and you must put up $400 min deposit. If you want to place a bid of more than $4000 then you would need to pony up some more. They have a "buy it now" feature which I used on 19 April. I know I paid a bit more rather than bidding on it but I only had 3 days left on my membership and would have had to pony up for an annual membership had I not purchased by the 22nd so I rationalized this as a wash. . Once they received the wire transfer I was allowed to have the car picked up. So 1030 hr's Monday I put in a request for transport bids which come quickly. I received quotes from $1250 (guaranteed delivery within 2 days) to $350. I called the 350 quote and held his feet in the fire until he said that it would be picked up this week. I gave them $100 over the phone and was told to give $250 cash to the driver upon arrival. OK. 45 min's later I receive a call from the driver wanting the lot number. He was there and headed my way. 26 hours and $350 after my first call to the transport company it was in my driveway. Kudos to Brad at Lightning Auto Carriers (Boca Raton, FL) for being a man of his word.
Shit, this is a nice car and I'm trying not to get attached to it. Especially since it's my favorite color; green! Everything works except the drivers side mirror. The check engine light is on so I started it and let it idle for about 40 min's to check for overheating and/or fluid leaks. No problems. So far. All the fluids are topped off and "clean". Even the oil and air filter are clean. Good sign that the PO took care of her. Great tires but they are 16". She idles smoothly and shifts well so the tranny will bring some $$. HF has the OBDII scanner for $49 this week so I think I will see why that "check engine" lite is on before the transplant. I won't know what to believe once it's transplanted and I'm up to my neck in error codes. So w/o further adieu meet Greenie:
Hoping to add this wheel and steering column, too. And I believe those gages should graft in as well.
Nice wheels
with lots of thread
But this, more than any other reason, is why I wanted this car.
Topless
I know Chris will outrun me with his 3.3 but it's what I wanted. Unfortunately, I cannot begin stripping her until after 23 May because I have tons of family coming for my daughters graduation. She's getting her masters and the truth be told; that means the world to me.
awesome, glad you found what you wanted. That's the same motor, and car I just finished tearing apart for my conversion. A 10mm socket, and a Phillips screwdriver will take most of the interior apart, the computer is under the passenger side carpet.
It will be nicer being able to take your time stripping the donor, I had to do mine all in one day, not so fun.
Great find, have fun tearing it apart.
Jeff
NIIICE! Great work Kent! That's a very strong motor and it's a lot smaller than the 3.3 and newer. I would not worry at all about the CEL as long as it runs OK. Could be something as simple as a wire with the coating worn off but it's probably a sensor or solenoid that you may or may not need. With the availability of used parts and the fact that many are universal across the Subie line there's not much you can't fix cheaply. Post the codes when you get them.
Take your time stripping it. It's exhausting (Jeff, have you recovered ?) . Going through the wiring harness now. Worst part yet for sure.
Family trumps car stuff any day. That's why mine is going pretty slow. Maybe I can catch up with you on the progress
Chris, I'd have to agree with you on the wiring harness being a PITA. This is the starting point for me. After my daughter's graduation, family and entourage left 5/22. Miss them but it was time to begin the all out assault on the Suby. I was pussy footing around the first week or so, then out came the sawzall. I never would have been able remove the dash w/o one. Just like any predator I began at the rear and worked my way forward. I try to gather as much info on my own as possible before posting on the Suby boards. Those guy's will flame you in a second. Makes me appreciate each one of you guy's here. So, I began with exposing and removing the wiring from everything that is not conditional to the engine running. i.e I pull a plug and start the car. If it doesn't start I reconnect just that plug and move on to the next while identifying each wire as I go.
This is the harness that passes along the lower R side. Upper R side is Moon and Sun Roof wiring which I won't be using. This harness catches the rear running lights, rear washer & WW's, fuel pump/sender, misc evap vac/press sensors, and rear door motors/switches/locks.
Here it passes alongside the rear psg seat and on to the rear. The access ports for the fuel sender and fuel pump are shown here. The harness that feeds this wraps around the back seat and then enters on the rear L side???? Seems the long way around but.........
Some carnage shots. After all this I am to the point of pulling the engine. Did anyone notice the gage cluster is removed. Cars still starts and runs. Blew my mind. FWIW, the yellow harness' are the air bag/restraint system. Also, plastic squirt and roof drain lines are overhead L side along with most audio lines. Good idea! Separate power and water as well as RF interference.
Attached image(s)
You guys who re-purpose the wiring harness and all that have a LOT more smarts and courage than I do. I used to look down on guys who threw tools when they were frustrated, but if I had that in my garage I think I'd have to re-think all that, because I'm pretty sure tools would be thrown.
You're doing great Kent! I failed to mark many of the interior wires which is really biting me in the arse right now. Label every flipping wire man. It's worth it in the end. If you end up cutting them later that's OK. Still worth the investment. Otherwise you lose your "bearings" on what part of the wiring harness is what...if it's all labeled you can confidently trim it down bit by bit til you end up with only what you need.
I have an eg33 that will be going into my westfalia and there is a company called http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29894 that has wiring harness modification directions. I know this is for westfalias but it should work for what your doing too.
From the website-
"This kit enables a person with some wiring ability and lots of time to take a Subaru "bulkhead" wiring harness, remove a large number of connectors and wires, splice and add some wiring and end up with just what is necessary to run the engine in another vehicle. These wiring kits are unique to each Subaru year and model. Please note that this kit is a guide for harness modification and not a step by step manual. The expected time commitment to convert a harness is 20-40 hours for the first timer."
Jon
Got a friend that is selling a 99k 2003 EZ30D with the wiring harness and computer for $1000. I told him that was a hell of a deal. I would not pull the harness for that price.
I think the best thing to do would just use the connectors. Make your own from scratch.
Bob
Cool!
This is the best part of the trip.
Program the ECU? I didn't know I had to do that either. I never came across that in my research. I sure don't need that extra expense.
If you bought an aftermarket ECU from a company like Outfront it will have a good map already installed. They'll ask you about your engine, any performance modifications, and put in one that will get you up and running well enough that in most cases you won't even need to change anything. Then you can fine tune and pick up some additional power with an hour of dyno time. That's what I did, and had them make the engine harness too, no big deal. If it's a Megasquirt or some other ECU not from Outfront you can usually get a base map from the vendor or someone else for free, then either do the fine tuning yourself (an EXCELLENT learning experience and well worth the aggravation) or pay for an hour or two of dyno time to have it tuned for you. The OEM ECU will have the Subaru map installed, so no issue there.
It's a trade really, the work of modifying an OEM ECU and harness against the expense of buying an aftermarket ECU, harness and dyno time. With an aftermarket ECU you'll have probably better tunability and a leaner car, because you can't incorporate all the features that can come with the OEM equipment. But of course with the OEM you get a tested and proven system that's long-term robust, where a Subaru mechanic or dealership won't be lost if you need help somewhere. As long as your work modifying the OEM harness was done well, anyway.
Some very good points, DB. I had already formulated my plan before I found out about this option or that Mega Squirt has the 3.0 mapped out, now. Leave it to me to find the most difficult way to do something.
Between a very busy work schedule and the NBA Finals, I finally got this sucker pulled. There has been a lot of work going on but nothing to post that would reflect that.
Thanks to Ethan and his Dad, Paul for the loan of the cherry picker. Next up is re- sealing this engine where it has a few small oil leaks, then on to the actual fitment. The leaks seem to be on the lower corners of the heads. Those corner bolts were loose, also. The timing chain cover appears to have a small leak, too.
I used My "Andy Lens" for this shot.
Congrats on all the hard work! Will be watching this build closely!!
Well I finally got the last wiring harness out. If and when I get this sorted out (thought I'd give myself some breathing room in case this is over my head ) I expect the harness should be about the same size as the teeners. Notice the rear view mirror in the pic. It has an auto dimming feature which should be the Cats Ass in a teener. It was a Royal PITA to remove it w/o cutting it. Hope it pays off. When taking this pic today I was once again questioning my sanity. Is this project bigger than me? What was I thinking? Then I tell myself to compartmentalize things and take a deep breath. Anyway, the cannibalization of the donor is over and it's time to see what fits.
Attached image(s)
Dear God.
Kent, I know that feeling but you are doing great. You have no idea how much time you saved by labeling the harness so well. Another tip is DO NOT un-bundle the harness and unravel all the electrical tape at once. Just dissect it one plug at a time. Pick the wires you don't need and cut them out, pull them through the harness, done. Mine is a knotted mess now. The good news is I don't plan to use most of the body harness after all so most will be thrown away. It was pretty weathered and probably worse for wear than the 914 one. Yours looks pretty fresh!
Piece of cake.
Learn how to open the connectors before you start cutting wires.
They are all different but kind of the same.
Is that rear view mirror controlled by the integrated module?
The integrated module was a mystery box for me. I think it controls the dimmer on the dash. I finally deleted it. Looks like you have everything you need, hope you get the mirror working
In the end, if you need some extra Bg, Ry, Wr,… wire, let me know I may have some extra.
Thanks guys, good info. And I hope that I pulled off the turboencabulator that controls the mirror, too. I'll bet those wires are in the 35lb arena. I'll probably get $50 just for the scrap copper. I need to get those harness' attached to my "work station", spread out and disected. I'll need to build a frame for the engine but need to buy a tranny so I can mount the starter and on and on and on. It will be a long road. I need to hear it run and check out the electrical before I start stripping the wiring from the 914. Some days I wish I knew what I was doing.
What I thought was an intelligent way of organizing things:
He does it regularly, of course, so it's kind of a production tool, but it still made sense to me as a way of keeping things sorted.
That's pretty much what I have planned except vertical. I don't have enough room otherwise. I plan to use the garage door
Needed something to do but I have the engine cleaned up and awaiting some seals. Then Aircraft Spruce sold me the wrong size 4130 tube so I can't start making motor mounts. (Notice how I blamed ACS. That felt good. Kinda relieves one of that nagging feeling brought on by accountability.) Herschel came by and picked up the Subaru skeleton today so that's done. Then I remembered the shock kit that Elyut sold me. Smoking deal, thx.
Left rear
right rear
left front
right front
I've always had a clunk as the rear lid was raised and lowered but basically ignored it. After I removed the old torsion bars and rollers I was able to see this. And before you say anything those are not my welds. Mine aren't nearly that good. I knew this area needed to be cleaned up but hadn't expected this. What is supposed to be there? A bearing? A bolt? A nut? I'll find out when I pull it apart I guess.
The right side is gut sans the welds again. These welds look like someone tried to stick weld them on. Surely not factory. I have this side to reference if I don't get an answer.
So Saturday I'll head back to ACS for the correct size 4130 tube to begin the motor mounts. This will be totally out of my league but Ian won't have any for a few month's (if ever) and I ain't getting any younger. That being said, what are the target dimensions for the engine height wise if I'm going with the suby 5mt tranny. TIA
The 4130 tube arrived so it was time to get Blackie up and start with the mount. Besides I need the room to weld in the new trunk hinge when it arrives. I bought a 4x4 and ran a dado cut down it to accept the flange on the bottom of the longs. Flame on.
No, I am not making the cradle from wood. Just trying to visualize.
I had planned to heat bend the tube but proved to be a PIA. Too tricky to keep below 1500F and I don't have any means to heat treat so it was off to HF. With my coupon I walked out with this for $79. Out of the dark ages now.
The first pieces. Next is to locate some bushing stock or some 5/16 weld tabs (if they make such a thing).
PS, Blackie is getting a new name. Just discovered that name is already in use. His new name is Frank.
Not sure about the 3.0 but the stock 3.3 manifolds were way too long. I got headers from Bob that sit very close to the engine underneath. Perfect fit, but I might have to cut one of the braces on my Ian mount for that reason. Might want to make sure you don't weld any bracing in that area.
Put some jack stands under that car brotha! Just for backup!
Hey Chris , I thought about that so I will pick up the collector from Outfront and fit it to the engine before fabbing that part. I also need to check the cradle for clearance of the 1/2 shafts as well as ground clearance of the exhaust. The jack stands get in the way with what I am doing just now. It is very stable as it sits now. I had a crazy idea last nite. I think I will look at modifying the cradle to accept casters that would drop in/out. It would be nice to slap on the casters, lower the cradle onto the floor and roll in/out. How's your project coming along?
I received the trunk hinge from Restoration Design so I took a break from the engine cradle to attack this.
I had noticed the mud dauber welds earlier and then found that the hinge had rusted thru also. After grinding down the old welds and removing the old hinge it looked like this
But a close up reveals a crappy previous repair as well as brazing...........
I'll need to get this area cleaned up and I'll beef up this area before welding in the replacement piece.
Check out the Key Chain I received from Restoration Design. Coooooooooool.
Your "jack stands" scare me.
I ground out all the brazing from a previous repair then filled holes and ground them down. This is the last of the welded holes.
Ready for weld thru primer.
Reinforcement piece 18ga.
Reinforcement piece welded in
Primed with weld thru. Ready for the hinge piece to be welded to it now.
Here's the new one. Thanks Restoration Design.
Primed and ready to have the nut from the back side welded in
Welded in place. It's ugly but substantial. It's a bitch to get that tip in there.
And everything welded/primed and ready for the lid to be mounted, shocks slipped on make any adjustments necessary. The motion of the trunk lid is now smooth as a baby's .
With that out of the way it's time to get back to the motor mount. This thing is going to have it's way with me but eventually (aka more $$) I'll get it. It's a start stop scenario so bear with me.
I took some 1/4"x 4" sq plates and used the Subaru piece as a guide. After I made the slots in each piece I realized that it wasn't necessary. A solitary hole would have been fine but now I have a little more wiggle room.
A quick test fit
One is the mirror image of the other so using 2 of the 4 bolt holes the plates are bolted together and the 1st piece is the template for the other.
The plates in place
I need the engine level to get these next measurements.
Right & left motor mounts are at 32 degrees.
Well I'm at the stopping point again . I need the exhaust flanges before I can go any further with the cradle so I stuck some pieces up just for shits n grins.
Yippie Picked up a tranny from an 03 WRX 2.0T, 74K miles., pressure plate, throw out bearing, some 1/2 shafts he threw in (away). This will help answer my cradle questions. Bottom line is that the center line off the 1/2 shafts is roughly at the bottom of the heads. Porcharu is sending me some majic flanges in a few weeks, too. Only one pair left!!!
So back to the motor mount. I used some .25" 4" prefab plates ( $1.99ea) as the base plates and drilled them to match the factory mounts. For the stand offs I used some Proto Fab tabs ($3.99ea x 4) radius 1.5" to match the tube. All I had to do was shorten them a bit. I had already tacked the shorter tabs in place before I started with the pics. . They were out of the short rectangular tab so I used the ones with slanted sides which is covered a few pics down. Here the plates are back on the mounts with both short and long tabs tacked in place. The tube is slipped back in place to check flush and square from time to time.
The right bank
Left bank
Another angle of the Left bank
Ditto on the right bank
Front view
A quick double check of the angle
LJYYCM(%VF
I wanted to add a piece to tie in the stand offs so I cut some off this 3/16" piece
But........because I had used the tabs with the angled sides I needed to tweek the end to match. With the piece firmly clamped in the vise a cheater bar clamped to it and...........
These two pic's show that angle beater than I can say it.
The pieces seem to fit well enough
And after a few minutes of welding in the vise
One more quick check and it still level. The cross bar will not get welded in place yet. It is my variable if I've missed something. At least that is what I am telling myself. Next thing is to position the long side rails and weld the bolt collars in so I can hang them off the car. Then the cross member will be cut/radiused to length (and possibly bent to offset any height issues and/or exhaust issues) and welded in place. Stay tuned as I stumble and bumble my way thru this with an emphasis on embarrassing myself.
some more
Nice job on the mount.
Bob
Nicely done. Do you plan to bolt the trans to the cradle or mount it independently ?
Thx, Bob. I was very careful to not take any pic's with the "really bad" weld joints.
David, I'll have to figure that out. My original plan was to use the factory mount on the bottom rear of the tranny but...........that part of the tranny is removed because it isn't needed. That being said, who knows. DB Coopers cradle design might be the way to go but I haven't finalized that yet. Once that part is worked out some gussets and additional bracing/re-inforcement will be added. It's pretty much a skeleton at this point.
Looks really good Kent! I like the way you incorporated the front mount attachment points. For the trans you can just fab up a couple of hangers similar to the coldwater.com setup.
Got my engine out...I'll try to update the thread soon.
Thx Chris. As you can see in the following pic's, I did the same on the tranny pick up points except that I welded those pieces to the cradle. I understand why Ian did his that way but I felt that if I were to need to drop the tranny that I would just drop the entire assm or just remove the tranny from it's factory mount (4 bolts).
Before going any further with the cradle I replaced this little pest.
Then on to the tranny to switch it from AWD to FWD. Thx for the link Chris. After draining the lube it is stood on end and the rear cover bolts are removed.
A few taps with a rubber mallet to separate it
To reveal this
Now it's just a matter of removing a few pieces
Group photo of the pieces that are removed.
Here the locking nut is being removed. Notice the pipe wrench's affixed to the output shafts. Impact makes short work of this.
Next I need to make a cover plate for the rear of the tranny. I'll use the old cover as a template but I need to remove this gear first so I remove the 4 allen head screws holding it first.
Now I can scribe the outline.
Then a quick ride on the bandsaw.
A little shaping on my "washing machine motor turned 12" sander".
A after 10 min's of polishing the piece of junk yard aluminium, viola!
Attached image(s)
Now, back to the cradle. One piece that ties the tranny support onto the cradle.
The other side (right)
And now it's tied in. I used the factory tranny mount after realizing that this section "was not" removed as I believed it would be earlier.
Found my first "gotcha". The clutch fork is contacting the trunk in this pic. It appears that I can trim this piece down. I'll need to drill another hole for the return spring after trimming this.
Hanging from the front mounts.
A view from the lid
And a shot from the rear. The bottle neck jack is there until I shave the clutch fork down enough to connect the rear attach points on the cradle.
Awesome!
Now post that center diff on NASIOC! I got $250 for mine no haggling.
Shopping for a clutch and came across this. It appears Exedy is not the way to go.
http://www.rexnet.com.au/forum/index.php?/topic/78962-wrx-clutch-exedy-rattle-solved-p18/page__st__150
I would look into an act clutch and pressure plate, they make awesome clutches
It looks like the engine is rubber mounted and the tranny is not.... is that correct?
that will be trouble, both need to be mounted solid or isolated mounts, not mix and match.
The Trans is on a mount. Its the black thing underneath the rear of the trans
I think Troy's point is the fact that one end of the cradle might have a soft mount and one end might be directly bolted to the chassis. Keep in mind we also have engine mounts in the middle attached to the engine.
Kent what are you doing for cradle mounts? Front, back, or both? I'm actually worried about the opposite. I have 911 mounts at the front and rear as well as the stock mounts on the engine. Might be too soft. If so I can remove the front cradle mounts I guess.
Everything looks great and very familiar!
A little bird dropped me a question about this time in my build regarding the http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=94994&st=80 clearance. If this part of the cradle is not the lowest point then, disregard my nosiness.
Feel free to ask about any details that were not listed in any of the Suby builds here, especially Strawman! Geoff is very helpful!
Cheers!
Nate
Kent, on the clutches I think the issue was definitely related to 4WD HARD DRIVING and also some cheap kits that were probably not supposed to be used with a Subie. EXEDY makes clutches for other cars and they might just need 4 springs.
Definitely appreciate all the help from everyone. Every time I need an answer from certain Subaru sites I am reminded of how genuinely helpful this community is. I would not be able to do my swap without you guys.
Nate, your trans mounts are thicker at the top than mine, which would solve my clearance problem. Thanks for the example. I will shim them for now but will probably weld some more steel on the top of the plate to lower the cradle a bit (winter project).
I installed the new clutch
and TO bearing. Must admit that "pull clutch thing" threw me a curve ball at first.
But before I slapped the drive train back into the car for another fit I did something I'd wanted to do since I began bouncing this cradle design around in my head. First I retired this contraption. They will be re-purposed in a welding station.
And did this. $24 worth of casters, scrap piece of DOM & 2" angle. It's a dream to move around the shop and no worries about tipping over, either.
But I saved the best part for last. Watch how fast and easy the install back into the car goes. After rolling the assm under the car (with the wheels on the car) I line up front left mount and place the floor jack under the cradle
Raise it 2" or until the wheel falls out
Then the bolt is slid back thru with a large washer to mate against the factory bracket and spread the load. BTW, both the bolt and washers are re-purposed from the old rear mounts. The nut with a smaller diameter fat washer are started from above but not tightened. One down
Repeat on the right side. Two down
Back to the tail and just like the sides it's jacked up 2" but after the wheel falls out the receiver is removed from the tranny and the rear mounts are fastened to the old rear receivers as shown in an earlier post here. After the rears mounts are tightened I go back and finish tightening the fronts.
And it's a good thing that I went with gas struts for the lids because this brace that contained the 2 torsion rods for the old truck lift ended up dead center of the TB throat. I'll grind 'em down later but that spot might get a trim anyway.
Plenty of clearance up front
This is the Carrot in Front of the "yours truly" Donkey. Just seeing it sitting there should keep me motivated. I believe the cradle is finished short of paint and a few weld tabs for the shifter or exhaust system.
Cool
There's no front cross member under the engine? The mounts being aft of the engine's centerline are adequate?
See now you're just showing off...slow down Kent! I almost caught up!
Looks great and it will be nice when you have to drop the engine. So easy.
I love that mount
Kent,
I love the casters idea
When I get back to working on my car, I was going to look into a support attached from the tranny to the firewall. Maybe you can pave the way.
Nice engine cradle, the wheel setup is brilliant
Definitely have to copy that design when I get ready to build mine.
You guys are way ahead of me....I'm still trying to get my shop done so I can get started.
Nice job Kent, keep the details coming.
Jeff
You're pretty good with that sheet metal fab, Kent
When I mentioned an extra motor mount, I was thinking more along the lines of a front engine mount utilizing sort of rubber dampener to the firewall, rather than at the tranny
It just seems to me that a front mount will allow for a bit more aggressive driving
Hi Kent,
As I was reworking my cradle or at this point I could just call it a X-bar, I spent a lot of time thinking about the load distribution.
The lower Suby mounts are just about the CG of my WRX/901 combo. So all the static load is on the lower mounts. Under power the motor wants to pivot about the drive shafts. That takes load off of the lower mounts and more downward force on the 901 ears. Downshift and you get the opposite, down on the motor and up on the transaxle mounts. The 901 ears may have very little static load but under hard driving may take a beating. Braking may also push the motor forward and down about the lower mounts. With all that said, if an upper transaxle mount was horizontal it should better control loads under the torque of the motor. Am I over thinking it? Missing something? The way Subaru hung the motor or at least they way we 914 guys are doing it, just seems strange. Anyway, with the upper mount, I would be able to pull the transaxle without touching the motor.
Hey Mike and Mark, I was at Hershel's (nineonefoursix) yesterday so we popped the hood and scratched our heads as we tried to figure it out. It won't help w/ torsional loads (at engine centerline) and not much vertical load (hanging) either. The connector between the tranny and firewall is like our bumper "dog bone" but elongated and will twist with little effort. It is angled down and aims at the front bumper. Makes me wonder if it is a brace for 4 wheeling when you are at an extreme downhill attitude. ?? The main reason I haven't (notice I didn't say didn't) run a brace from the firewall to engine is that I am not sure where one would connect to the front area of the engine. I haven't seen any suitable attach points on the engine itself. Not what I would consider load bearing points anyway. Next time I have it out I will check closely. Maybe a boss in that area that could be tapped?? I also considered connecting the cross brace with the firewall to cut down on for/aft movement but the tranny attach point is solid and should keep the engine combo in check when braking hard. In other words; I have no idea what I'm doing and time will tell.
In the first iteration of my car we used the 901 transmission, and my son broke one of the transmission mounting ears drag racing. Power shift, boom. After it was fixed I removed the engine cover and you could see the engine twist under load. For the second iteration with the Subaru transmission we used a pretty substantial urethane mount at the rear of the transmission that seems to have effectively eliminated torsional twist and any other movement. No problems so far and the poor car has been severely thrashed by a whole bunch of different people. Well, maybe not "thrashed" exactly, better to say "tested".
By the way, the other thing we did with the second iteration was change the intercooler location from the top of the engine compartment to a water-air at the front of the car. The engine cover was off so we could experiment with air flow, to see if we could make intercooler work there. I never saw how, so we changed it from the engine cover to the front of the car, where Porsche located their oil coolers. I sincerely doubt you could make a radiator located there cool the car, no matter what engine. I'm curious, but doubtful enough myself that I'd prefer someone else did the experimentation. So I could just watch.
Hey DB. I've read your thread a-z several times. I may know it better than you. I've stolen some of your idea's and as soon as I get my exhaust started I can begin stealing your shift set up, too. Emulation being the sincerest form of flattery Hopefully I won't twist the Suby Trans off it's mount. I liked your trans mount but didn't want to source that urethane mount. That is probably a 'stock" item for a fabricator but not your average shade tree guy so I stayed with factory rubber mount. I hope it's strong enough. I won't being driving mine as hard as you. If it ever actually becomes drivable I want to "bum" someones GoPro and watch what goes on in the engine compartment. OT: I saw a film of a Lycoming under load and I wished I hadn't. I'm with you on cooling up front in the undisturbed air. I've read too many threads where others have failed. I think Chris even gave up on cooling his N/A engine back there.
Kent,
A quick search for that top mount got me this quote:
"The Subaru Pitch Control Mount is found under the factory top-mount intercooler (installation is simple) between the fire wall and the front end of the transmission. The pitch mount is designed to produce crisper gear shifts by preventing the front end of the transmission from pitching up or down, forward and back."
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/images/P/TS-SU-011-2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/torque-solution-02-subaru-wrx-sti-billet-aluminum_pitch-stop-tranny-mount-ts-su-011.html&usg=__0aWTOxmBZTZOGhXSI7F0SwO53LE=&h=375&w=500&sz=23&hl=en&start=3&zoom=1&tbnid=ZPBZ5MBmHaTh1M:&tbnh=98&tbnw=130&ei=iTAdUv3MJ8T4yAH5_oDoDg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwrx%2Btop%2Btransmission%2Bmount%26um%3D1%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:*%26hl%3Den%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&sa=X&ved=0CDIQrQMwAg
Me Three!
How's it going Kent? Still waiting on trans parts?
Yes, but that's not a real hold up. The last few days it's been the Wx. Too damned hot! The exhaust is the hiccup that's keeping me off the shifter build. I need to transition from oval to round tube within a limited space. It should begin a cool down later this week then I'm back into the electrical. I'm teetering between going full Suby electrical vs. a splice in, now. If in reality, I can shave several month's build time by using the 914's wiring where possible, I think I should. That and all my existing wiring is really primo. At this stage in life I shouldn't buy green bananas much less get into some lengthy project that might not be completed because of some unforeseen future medical issue. How's things on your end??
Speaking of unforeseen medical issues I'll still get you the shifter photos, I've just wrenched my back and can't get to the car. So a little longer. Or maybe better pills.
Hey DB, glad you posted. I forgot to mention; go ahead and post them here. I'm a little ways out on this and I know Chris and some others are awaiting some direction re: this. Take care of that back. BTDT.
with taking care of your back and with wanting pics of your shifter!
Thx Bob, I did buy the flanges on your suggestion. I took them to a muffler fab shop and but it stopped there. I'll use your pic's and show them to the muffler guy. What size should I run? 1 1/2"?? Just came in from the mental gauntlet called the harness.
After a few temper tantrums, lots of cussing and bit of whining I think I've got this whittled down to a manageable size. A few more wires to trace out, test fit, trim, etc. It's one of those 95% complete and 95% to go, things.
The first trimming
This was the first pile culled
Got tired of scrubbing the garage floor with my knees so I went vertical. Here is the final few pieces hung and ready to plunder.
A closer look
and a close of the other side
Here it is completely scalped a few hours later.
A closer look w/ all components, I think
And the bone yard. Might be a few bucks scrape here.
I seriously applaud your the amount of effort and labor you are putting into this Kent, It's gonna be spectacular when you're done. That sure is a hell of a lot of wiring though.. If it doesn't make you go insane, it sure will leave your mind nice and sharp. People pay good money for puzzles and "brain training" exercises. You've got them beat by a bunch.
Part of me is really glad I went this route... so much simpleness.
Nice work Kent! Don't get rid of that extra wire yet. You'll need to extend several of yours for things like the radiator fans, etc.
Hey thanks Ethan, that means a lot coming from an over achiever like you. I think your conversion was a feat considering you did it a few weeks before school resumed while working.
DB, you read my mind. All 3 min's worth.
Thanks Chris, You were probably grinning from ear to ear while I fussed with the harness, having been there. Anyway, I want to give credit where credit is due but first I need to back up a few weeks. After staring at 40+ lb's of wiring for a few weeks I decided to just jump in and began cutting. Thank goodness my Subaru factory manual arrived just days later or I would have had a real mess on my hands . After perusing the wiring diagram I realized that I had cut some wires that were needed and from what I could tell I had my work cut out for me. Since I had already caved in about using all the Suby harness' I decided to save myself some more time and ordered the smallcar directions for the VW Van conversion. This was a GOOD decision. First, my manual was missing a few updates that I would have missed. But more importantly was the support that I've received from the tech dept. Mel is the person in tech (and I'll bet the owner, too) that I deal with. He is a Prince to work with, seems always available and knows what the Hell he is talking about. He's been into Suby's forever and his enthusiasm is testimony to his love for his craft. Just wanted to pass this on to you guys getting ready to convert. Unless you are a Mike, Tom, Geoff or a EE I would suggest spending $175 with smallcar.com. The support is phenomenal.
So here is a pic of the almost complete harness tidied up. The looms are not taped in place because some lengths or wires for that matter , will change after it is fitted in it's new home.
Look closely at the first 2 pic's. I needed to add to this line and rolled off some wire, cut to length and noticed that although the sheaths were the same the gauges were different. Notice how much larger the sheath is on the one that matches the gauge.
And the semi-finished product. I'm glad I did this and I'm happy to be done with it.
This area will get covered with loom but not until the last.
looks good!
Do your self a favor and do not do a final wrap of the harness until all the bugs are worked out and the car runs great.
I've been having some intermittent issues and has to strip and chase every single wire. All were connected correctly but I found a loose connection in the factory temp sensor plug.
Do yourself a favor check all the grounds and battery connections at the plugs!!!
This will save you a great amount of time. Not trouble shooting battery and ground
problems when you try to start the engine.
Mike and you have both said basically the same thing and coming from 2 of our elec guru's, it looks like the ohm meter needs a workout. Thanks for the tips. I'm not shy and I'm thick skinned so keep 'em coming.
Don't be afraid to pull on each wire at each connection. If you find a bad one, it is much easier to fix while it's out of the car.
Ask me how I know...
Good point. I shouldn't blindly accept the work of another. An EE showed me what pulling on one means. I was surprised by the amount of force he used but that's what's necessary. BTW, where can a guy buy a decent ratcheting crimper for less than an arm and leg? I remember that style crimper seemed to get it tight & right the first time, every time. And thanks for the electrical help from you Ace's. Not my strong point and just knowing that "those in the know" are watching is comforting to say the least. Before I moved out here I used to hang with 3-4 EE's and never had to concern myself with much electrical. Thx for picking up where my old buddies left off.
The crimper I use was made by Molex. I cost $125, 15 years ago.
mouser electronics can help you find one.
Here are some options from Grainger:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/search.shtml?searchQuery=Terminal&withinSearch.x=0&withinSearch.y=0&op=search&Ntt=Terminal&sst=subset&N=4293734508
Note that there are different tools for insulated and bare terminals.
Thanks, I ordered a Greenlee tonight. $56.00 w/ tx/shpg. Not bad. Everything I've done on the harness thus far was soldered so I ask; do you guy's use di-electric grease on crimp joints?
I'm back after it after a 5 week hiatus. I thought that f*&$#ing bug was going to kill me and my whining damn near killed my wife. Let's see, where did I leave off? The wiring . I have most of the new wiring done and installed though not tested or properly installed in the looms. I was glad that I saved the Suby wiring grommets as they came in handy. I'll post some pic's of this later. I pulled the drive train to replace some hoses and other odds n ends before reinstalling for one of the last times, I hope!
While out I thought I'd try removing the power steering pump which isn't needed.
First attempt was with a 47" belt which was too loose. I used this pic with the PS pump still installed to show how much the geometry changes as related to the tensioner. When the belt went around the large pulley of the pump the tensioner was effective but as you see in the final pics it is less effective. I ended up using a 46.5" belt which was Hell to install. Very tight to slip on even with the tensioner relaxed. I think it is tight enough but time will tell. I may have to re-install the pump just for the use of that pully.
This is the 47" belt. A little too loose.
The 46.5" belt installed
I could use a little help here. Any Suby guys here that can identify these fuel hoses? I can't seem to locate that info in the manuals. What are #1,2 & 3? Is #4 a filter. Are any of these not used? I assume that gas enters the canister #4 to the fuel rail via #1. #2 is the return? #3 fuel vapor????
Welcome back Kent! Glad you're well again.
The big cylinder thingy to the left labeled #4 is your fuel filter. Replace it when you do your next parts order. They are cheap. The fuel flow is - out of the tank and into the fuel filter first, so that would mean that #1 is most likely your "line in". Since #2 is the exact same hose type that is probably your "line out" return line back to the tank exactly like the FI teener setup. Check the manual again for #3. Probably a vapor thing but just make sure it's not pressurized...most likely goes to a canister or back through the manifold or something. But make suuuure. Be careful and also make sure your hose clamps are very tight....we're going to 60 psi now! Yeeehaaaaa!
Thanks Chris & Geoff, Wasn't sure and damned if I can find that in print, yet..... Saturday I rolled the drivetrain back into position to mark where the truck gets cut and to begin the shifter fabrication. I think I'm going to just say "stuff" from now on. It's easier to spell. I'm using the MR2 shifter. I'm not sure how it was mounted in the Toyo but it won't set flush on any flat surface so it needed to be raised about 1.5 - 2". In keeping with my CSOB ways all the metal was from pile o' .
The 1-2, 3-4, 5-R gates are controlled by the rotation of the shaft, An 1/8" flat lever was drilled & welded onto a piece of 5/8" tube, .095 IIRC. My shifter has appx 30mm travel or 15mm 1/2 travel. Borrowing "heavily" from DB Cooper's build I began to search for the sweet spot in the lever. I want to have about 13-14mm between the gates which is slightly less than the maximum travel of the shifter. I may end up adding some limiters o the shifter itself, later. This little gizmo allowed me to measure the travel and locate the attach point of the cable.
Edit : Opps, hit the wrong button. Will add the rest of this on the next page
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Round 2.
These guy's were of no help
This was the starting point for mounting the shifter. 2ea.- 5.5" pieces of 1/8 x 2" angle. These were drilled to match the existing tapped holes for the old shifter. A basic "T" configuration. KISS. The back 2 bolts are symbolic. One 13mm German/one 12mm Nippon; same thread. The blue tape has center line marks of the old shifter. I set mine back a few inch's to accommodate me.
A 9.5" x 5.5" x 1/8" plate was cut out to allow for shifter recess then placed on the angle and tacked into place. I''ll weld it up later.
A quick test fit to be sure the console fits. I'll make another piece of burled aluminum to cover this area as it was before.
Mounted the shifter. Look close you will see the felt tip measurements on the side of the shifter. As mentioned earlier, the piece on the left side moves for and aft as the stick is moved left and right. I know. It's freeking magic but it does. This movement is 15mm & 15mm. The eyelet on the shift rod is the one that controls movement between 1&2 or 3&4 or 5&R. Or the in-out action of the rod on the transmission. The travel here is 60mm or twice what's needed at the tranny so I will most likely lower the eyelet appx 13mm.
Now it's point "A" to point "B" measurement time. Stole this idea from Bob. Looks like 6.5' and 7.5'.
While I'm waiting for the cables to come in I jumped back to the tank to make this gasket for the Suby fuel pump. The tank isn't so flat at one end of the cut out so I cut this cork gasket from a 3/8" sheet. Now I need to decide whether to use rivenuts or plate nuts for the bolts.
Nice work Kent! Looks like the cable shifter is a lot more fine tuning than I imagined...hoping Ian will get one cooking soon. Getting organized for another blast of work on mine. Been really cold out here.
Hey BTW not sure if this will help at all but the cableshift.com website has instructions for adjusting their cable shift setups. Their Subie setup is different than the way we plan to do it but it might help you anyway:
http://www.cableshift.com/Subaru/Subaru_Instructions.pdf
There are several other cable shift setups on there too.
The cables arrived and I couldn't wait to hook 'em up. Yes, I think I could have shortened them by 6" or so but I took the safe route. The first thing was to get the MR2 shifter to accept the 1/4" cables. As you can see in the first pic, this peg is 10mm in diameter; too large for the 1/4" hiem joint. And the other side looks like it was set up for some type of clevis joint. I thought the clevis might intro some unneeded slop so I welded a 1/4" shoulder bolt thru this opening as well.
So I ground it off flush and welded a 1/4" shoulder bolt in it's place.
Once I began to move the shifter thru it's pattern I found a clearance issue so I had to grind down an overblown factory weld.
Then the head of this bolt needed to be ground down a tad. Now everything moves about freely.
The cables attached in the cabin......It was necessary to remove the plastic bushing on the firewall where the shift rod had passed thru. Odd that the bushing was a Royal PITA to install yet popped out quite easily. Once removed it was possible to fit the cables thru that opening after removing the nuts and washers. I'll get pic's from the rear in the next post. I need to find the engine mount bolts that I put somewhere when I was sick.
So while I look for the bolts for the motor mount I moved onto finish the fuel pump install. But before I can install the pump I need to level out the tanks surface. The tank offsets just a tad next to the flanged area where the tank halves join together. This is a 1.25" x 15" piece of square stock that is clamped here. You can see the hump if you look closely.
With a bit of hammering against the stock piece it flattened out well.
Now the pilot holes are enlarged to accept the rivenuts.
Then a final clean before the Rivenuts & JB Weld.
Let the JB Weld set up overnight then attached the pump housing. It fit!
Before you weld up the shifter mounting base, you might want to consider raising it. I had to mock up a system to raise mine a few inches and move it back so that I didn't have to lean over to reach it. I'd suggest mounting the driver seat and making sure he ergonomics are correct before finalizing everything, since the first-gen Toyota MR2 shifter is short compared to the stock 914 shifter. I still need to weld up a final mount system.
Be sure you make vroom-vroom noises while checking it all out...
Good point, Geoff. I did set the shifter back a few inches and centered it within the console but I'd better put the seat in, as you've suggested, for the real world scenario. Thx!
I was able to finish up with the shifter fab today so I thought I'd throw out a few dimensions here 'n there for others. You will need one 15" piece of 2x2 angle 1/8" thick. Cut one piece 6", one piece 5", one piece 1 7/8", one piece 1 5/8". Pieces will not fit flush against one another because of the filet or curvature unless you grind off about 1/8" where the pieces lap together. There are two 12mm holes drilled to attach this to the transmission. They are drilled 40mm apart c/c and staggered 2mm as shown. The 6" piece gets a 7/8"x1 1/4" section removed for clearance of a trans bolt. The 1 5/8" piece is placed in a vice and squeezed to open 15 degrees then reduced to 1" wide on it's other side. This is necessary to allow for the 20 degree angle while keeping the bulkhead in line and centered. I haven't cut the levered piece to it's final length because I want to play with some different throws but I pretty sure it will stay where it is. It shifts like a brand new car and I can't wait to drive this new set up. It still needs to be tidied up, painted, etc. Anyway I'm going to throw a bunch of pics at you. It's pretty self explanatory but ask if you have any ???
Nice Kent! What is the HP of that 6? I'm working on an idea for a mid-engine shop truck and was thinking a Sub 6 would be the answer. I would need enough hp to pull a trailer. (my trailer with a 914 on it)
Industrious bugger, ain't ya?
Looks nice. Neat 'wheelie bar' too
I'm happy you were able to get it worked out, since I still can't get down on the ground. Well, I could get down but probably not back up. At the end of the day it's pretty simple, isn't it? It makes all the difference in the world in how the car drives.
I need to take some photos of the way my shifter's mounted, it's a little different than your setup. Well done.
Whoa....Kent...that's above and beyond.... Thanks man.
Even I could do that using your instructions.
Hoping to have some time over the holidays to get serious about the project again.
Hey were both cables a little long? Actually hoping so because I want to use the Honda shifter and it might be a little different.
Nice work!!!!!!
Sorry Chris, I missed your response earlier. Yes, they are 6" too long but no big deal.
I got back to the gas tank today and finished it. It was fun but I'm glad it's over. Maybe I should have left it with the delivery system it had used previously but this Subaru pump is up to date, easily available, cheap and #1 safer! Lots of prep time measuring. The old adage "measure twice cut once" was never truer. I got azzhole lucky and everything fit. I saw this setup in a pic somewhere, liked it and copied it. It is Bob's (BIGKAT) idea to use the Impreza pump and relocating OEM sender. I didn't have the measurements when I began but I do now. If you go the same route hit me up I'll share them.
As mentioned in another thread I welded the ends closed on the tank nipples.
The last mod to this tank will be to relocate the fuel sender. I need the new location to clear the hold down strap and the new fuel pump assembly while staying in line with the "channel" or deepest part. The tank baffle is within an inch of the sender so watch it! I used the old seal to mark for the cut out and bolt hole location.
Here the holes are prep'd for JB Weld on the rivenuts.
After the epoxy has set it is test fit with the new cork gasket.
This is a fender washer that I cut to retain the screen pick up which I had to rotate 180 degrees to fit inside the "bucket" section of the tank. This bucket is where the old tank outlet was. Once the screen was rotated the part which had held it in place is now sticking out with nothing to hold it down. Hence this horseshoe piece is riveted in place and holds down that unsupported part is now captured. You can see it beneath the washer. It's a white plastic piece.
Clean tank, reassemble, strap down, connect fuel sender and temp wire nut pump.
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Something new. I wired the fan system and learned a great deal in the process. It's covered in this thread. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=226470 If your going twin fan there is an excellent schematic shown there and it would behoove you to print it. I ran 14ga wire and placed it in the some loom that I pulled from the donor. The only thing left is to pull the tank so I can run the harness beneath the tank then up to the relay bank. The green & black wires now running over the tank will be under it and trimmed to final length.
Got a grommet in place and ran this 8ga thru
Up thru the tunnel
and out thru another grommet
to
to
to my relay block that I lifted from the donor car. It has 2 30 amp fuses that are used on 3 of these relays. The others will need their own fuses. The relay that sits off to the side is the 5 pole (DTSP?) relay. It all mounts to the reservoir bracket after the speed clip is removed and a 6061 sleeve/bolt is used in place.
The blue wires on the right are the hi & lo speed switch wires, and remainder are wired into existing ign system. The Bk and Gr wires on the left side are the 14 ga wires to the fans.
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Great work! You might DRIVE that thing soon! What's next? Hydraulic clutch?
Hey Chris, This is what still needs to be done, AFAIK. I have the 1/2 shafts to convert; test ECU wiring; make a intake breather; clutch conversion. I usually choose the most daunting task so it's not there to haunt me. Given that, I'll probably do the clutch next Have any tips or info for me re: the clutch? I'm all ears. I've read PCR's post on converting. Which route are you headed?
Hey Doug, Let me know if this answers your question. See post #175. There are 2 pieces that have an angle. First is the 1" wide piece of the angle that the cable (running parallel with the trans) passes thru. Before it is welded on it is placed in a vice and compressed or splayed 15 degrees more for a total of 105 degrees. This angle places the cable in line with the shift rod angle. This same piece is welded in place with a 20 degree offset to place the cable end as close as possible to the shift rod. The other piece is the one with two holes drilled in it where the bracket attaches to the tranny. There is a 2mm difference between the center of those two holes which sets the 3rd angle.
Of course I haven't started the clutch but I do have the parts...
Now for the shocker...I COPIED MIKE BELLIS AND BIGKAT.
My plan is to use a Wilwood master cylinder push style (3/4 but we'll talk about that later) with Aeroquip -3AN braided hose with a threaded pressure fitting at the MC end and the required 10mm banjo fitting at the slave cylinder end (using the stock slave cylinder). Have to fab up something at the pedal cluster to compress the master when the clutch is pushed.
In most cases they say match your slave and master cylinders but you really don't have to because the clutch throw will be different. I think Bob mentioned he wished he had a 5/8 at one point and if he has the stock slave it's an 11/16 or 3/4. Might not make much of a difference....I have the part numbers for the fittings and stuff if you need 'em.
Which way are you going on the half shafts? Subie inners and re-splining the axles?
No problem sir....
Here's what I picked up:
The Wilwood 3/4 bore M/C with remote reservoir.
Looks like this:
Bought it from this e-bay seller...still there and seems like a good deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilwood-Remote-Master-Cylinder-Reservoir-3-4-Bore-Kit-Combination-Aluminum-/190984990289?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c7797ae51&vxp=mtr
Then I pm'ed BIGKAT and Mike Bellis because I didn't understand how to connect the lines to the MC and Slave. BIGKAT reminded me that this isn't very complicated so I shouldn't over-think it and gave me several recommendations. Mike B. recommended using -3AN braided stainless PTFE hose. He also said NOT TO BUY THE CHEAP HOSE so I bought this:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aer-fcc0310/overview/
Aeroquip is good stuff. Bought 10 feet because Mike pointed out that unless I left some slack I would have to disconnect, drain, reconnect and re-bleed the clutch every time I dropped the engine. And with a conversion we're learning you have to do that a lot at the beginning.
On the MC end you need this fitting:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aer-fbm1100/overview/
I also thought you needed another "adapter" fitting so I bought several others but this screws right into the fitting that comes with the MC.
For the Subie slave you need a 10MM Banjo fitting I bought this one:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aer-fbm3091/overview/
One thing you should know is that it is thicker than the stock Subie fitting, which means you may have to take some material off of it. I have both stock and this one and will post pics so you see what I mean. Might be a non-issue but if so it shouldn't be hard to shave a little off of the loop if need be.
Think that's all I have but I'll check the box later today. I'll also post the pedal setup I was looking at copying...have that link marked somewhere...this is where you come in and show me how to do that. It's REALLLLY cold here so plenty of time to watch you work!
I admire your modesty Mike. You probably don't realize how helpful you are. The questions I asked you were very elementary based on your experience but you responded with a couple of paragraphs of clear, concise information. I only bugged you because there wasn't anything on the site at the time that explained the actual lines and fittings (use the "search" first everybody!) Hope I can help you out someday .
Hey Kent, here's the clutch setup I was looking at copying...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=75785&hl=
Looks like you flip the fork around the other way and attach it to the MC pin, then cut a hole in the floor (yikes) so it sits similar to the brake MC. LOOKS pretty straight forward but...we'll see. That bracket would be fairly easy to make I would think. Is this the setup you were looking at?
OK last one...Here's that banjo fitting...measured them and the thickness difference is only 1.5MM so it may not be a big deal.
This is the stock fitting compared to the banjo fitting available at Summitracing. Bought the stock setup before I knew what I was doing. You COULD buy the stock fitting (has about 15 inches of braided hose and a threaded end) and then just do a screw-on connector at the end of it. To me that's just another point of failure so just doing the pressure fitting. Plus the stock setup is about $30...with either fitting you need a couple of copper washers for top and bottom as well.
Height:
Another angle:
Wow, your a bloody plethora of info Christopher. I ordered the Wilton cylinder this AM. Before I order from Summit, I thought I would ask how the fitting is joined to the hose. Are mandrels req'd for joining? Yea, I had that write up too but wasn't sure about which mstr cyl to use. I'll note the measurements when I make it and we can exchange notes. I hear you about that cold weather. My shop heater is due in tomorrow. Just in the nick of time. It's been in the 40's & 50's here until this weekend . And Mike, there's no shame in stealing great ideas. At least I hope not. After all, emulation is the most sincere form of flattery.
Gas Tank Question: How are you getting ALL the metal shavings out of the tank? That seems like a scary place to have loose metal floating around. (Or will the filter grab it all?)
Just a question on how you're getting fluid to the clutch master:
I'm adding a Wilwood master cylinder to the stock 914 cluster, and thinking about how I'm going to get the fluid there. Since there are two lines out of the brake reservoir, could I use one for the clutch? (With a T if the other IS being used for a return.)
Just trying to think this through. The Wilwood that I bought has a integrated reservoir, so I was going to add an external.
Hmmm...my initial response wasn't quite right so I overwrote it....ours has a remote reservoir....so you just find an attachment point in the trunk very similar to your brake fluid reservoir. Super easy. I wouldn't co-mingle your brake fluid with your clutch fluid...if you lose your clutch pressure your brakes could fail... Plus the Cap'n would have a flippin' heart attack. We don't want that. I'd see if you can add a remote reservoir to the one you have. There has to be some sort of conversion kit available....
This looks like one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/M813-REMOTE-BRAKE-MASTER-CYLINDER-RESERVOIR-KIT-M35A2-M809-5-TON-DEUCE-/111203089689?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19e4387d19&vxp=mtr
Not saying that's "the one" for you but just an example. Appears to be for large military vehicles....but you get the idea...
Oh it's not a big deal to add one. I think I already bought the kit. Just thinking out loud.
[quote name='CptTripps' date='Dec 16 2013, 12:51 PM' post='1971290']
Gas Tank Question: How are you getting ALL the metal shavings out of the tank? That seems like a scary place to have loose metal floating around. (Or will the filter grab it all?)
Before the 3 openings were closed I hit it with a brush, vacuumed and then stuck an air hose/blow gun in one opening my arm in another and blasted it with compressed air for a few minutes.
I've been putting this off as I do with all things that confuse me. It felt like waiting for school to let out so the class bully could whip my ass. But just like the proverbial ass whupping, "it 'twern't that bad." Thx to PRS914-6 for previously posting what he had done with the hydraulic set up. It was invaluable. I'm making 2 of these. One for Chris and one for me. Why? Chris is a good guy and has saved me me countless hours thru his perusing Suby articles and............ if it turns to Chris will know it before me because his project is ahead of mine. Devious, yes? Enough Pontificating! Here's how it's done. I used (as always) some scrap 3/16" plate steel and cut it into a few small sections as seen in this pic.
Then just keep them stacked as the holes are drilled out. This is faster (until one realizes that the prototype is wrong ) and insures correct duplication.
Some quick test fitting before I go much further...........
and to locate a spot to hang the reservoir. Real estate beneath the front hood is becoming scarce since I began this conversion. But the hose supplied by Wilwood was the "exact" length necessary. Crazy, huh?
While I'm in here I think I see a simple solution to the dreaded "brake flex" that I read about. I took this $3.18 weld tab (in SoCal. probably .35 everywhere else) and trimmed appx 1/8" of the tips so that it would set flush against the steering bar....
a quick polish to prevent cracking
Then enlarge the existing holes to 8mm (5/16") to match the hole in the weld tab. I'll enlarge both holes although I only need one. Future use.
looking good
The original mounting plate is now trimmed to %80 of it's final shape
I needed to enlarge this plastic bushing to 8mm. Don't try this with a regular 8mm bit. Step drill it with a graduated bit or a suitably fluted bit for plastic. Otherwise, you'll destroy this bushing.
A few mocked up shots. The Heim joint shown will be replaced with a clevis fitting. Otherwise it is offset too much for my taste.
I'm happy with the fit for now but I'm not so sure that I won't add something to dampen the sound transfer at some point.
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As mentioned earlier, the hose supplied was just the right length. I used the tab afixed to the tank to mount the reservoir. This took a few minutes as there is not a mm to spare. This manilla paper is almost too thick to squeeze in between.
Here is your mount, Chris. After the proto is final I will trim it and mail it off to you.
Some more with it in place. This is pretty much it except for the clevis joint which will be installed in place of the Heim joint; the hose still needs to be slid into place and connected and of course it will need to be tested. If anyone is interested I'll post the dimensions next time.
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Wow THANK YOU Kent!!! That's awesome. Hope I can return the favor sometime. I do have a small stash of stuff so lemme know if you've been looking for anything specific. Really glad the parts list helped. Your setup looks fantastic!
And YES PLEASE on the dimensions, whenever you get a chance. Great idea to do the brace BTW. Looks really clean.
Nice.
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I'm having a problem with my Wilwood reservoir. It is leaking where the 2 halves clamp together. I haven't pulled it yet to see if it's cracked.
I followed the instructions and warmed it up before fitting. I'm going to look for a one piece unit...
That's awesome. One question though...
What are the differences between a clevis fitting and a healm joint?
Nice job Kent.
I was doing the same thing last week for a friends 914. I used a Honda civic master cylinder. These can be gotten at any auto parts store new for less than $25.
On my Subaru conversion I used a wilwood master like yours but I used the 2 mounts on the side of the cylinder and made a mount for them and welded that to the front suspension cross member.
I used the honda master cylinder too. Can't beat the price.
Here are the dimensions for those interested. All dimensions are "mm" except for the 2, 1 1/2" dia. holes. Plate is 3/16" mild steel.
***NOTE*** The dotted bend line should read 3 Degrees NOT 30 Degrees
Hey Chris, this one's got your name on it. PM your address.
This one's mine. You can paint yours any color you want.
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I'd pay for one.
...just sayin'
Great thread. Thanks!
Top notch man...thanks again. Might just clear coat it to remember the kind gesture. Nice measurements too. Sounds like you could make a few more if you feel like it (but you might not).
Hey you're almost out of hard stuff to do! Almost time to fill that thing with water.
Just thinking out loud: I wonder if it'd make sense to use a different Master Cylinder with vertical bolts for the brakes. Since the horizontal bolts is a lot of the reason for the flex down there. If we're building replacement plates and welding them in anyways...
10-4. I completely understand.
I may attempt myself then. If you're OK with it being posted here (even though you already did) I'll make up a PDF that is 1:1 that someone could print and use as a template.
There are a few dimensions I'm missing, but I think I have it overall. Would you be kind enough to print this out and see if it matches the real piece you have?
I don't have dimensions for:
- Small Hole Diameters
- Distancees for A, B, C, D and E
This should be 210mm from side to side when you print it out.
Attached image(s)
I've had a change of heart. My previous comments did not take Cap'n Crusty's niece into consideration. I have 2 blanks left and will sell them drilled out w/ bolts, nuts and standoff brace for $55, shipping included. The clevis is appx $10 with shipping on ebay. For an additional $45 + shipping, I will #1,set it up on your pedal assm, #2,remove the spring and replace it with a spacer. So all you do is drill 2 holes in the floorboard. Payments shall be made to the Cap'n paypal acct and he can tell me when he is paid.
I'll be happy to get you those dimensions when I come up for air. May be a few days. I still need to complete a most generous project of Tim's (our resident gage lighting specialist) that is going to one of our members widow. Can't wait to take some pic's and show off another of Tim's talents here.
I'm in! PM Sent...
Well that's really nice of you. I know mine's not part of this deal but I'm in for $100 to help the lovely Sarah. Planned to donate anyway but now I have to get off my butt and do it TODAY.
One left.
Shifting gears and moving onto the exhaust I wonder if I should address the drive shafts before I paint myself into a corner. Opinions from those that have gone before me?
Remember I haven't DRIVEN mine but the way it is set up is:
Inner CV = FEMALE Subie (2002-2004) which is fine for you because your trans already has stub axles so it's set up for female CVs
Axle = Ians or re-splined 914 axle on one side to accept said Subie CV
Outer = the stock 914 CV....or you could upgrade to 944 if you pop a stock CV or two.
The other option is the "magic flange", which is fine too. Not sure about availability. The Subie CV is very strong so that's why I went with it.
I did a poor job of documenting this part of the build but here is a terrible pic of one of mine:
The Subie female CV is on the left, then the custom axle, then the 914 CV. I read on NASIOC NEVER to use the aftermarket Subie CV's. Always buy a used stock OEM CV even though they are about the same price as a new or rebuilt non OEM one. I got my axle pair for $50 and they were totally fine.
Also when you do the Subie CV you don't need to lock the axle in with the lock washer...you let it float. Weird but apparently it's fine.
You may be right on that Kent...sorry I had not picked up on it before. I bought Ian's setup. Bob would know for sure and I do recall something about him mentioning bus axles...didn't know the reason but that may be what it was.
Stock 914 axles are fine. I've had 3 sets done and just found some one else to do them local.
Geez. How easy is that? Quite honestly my head was swimming with all I've read. Thanks guys
Stock 914 axles are fine. I've had 3 sets done and just found some one else to do them local.
One quick tip for ya...
If you already have female Subie CV's you just have to take them off the Subie axles. The way you do that is undo the larger end of the CV boot and peel it back a bit. The joint will be very loose then and you will be tempted to slide the axle off the female inner CV end. BUT WAIT....there is a retaining ring that you have to remove first that is in the end of the CV bell. Here's a pic:
Just feel around at the lip of the open end, you'll find it. It's in there loosely, you can take it out without any tools. If you just slide the bell up without taking that out it will catch at the end. A guy I know very well just yanked at it and bent the hell out of the retaining ring before he figured out it was there. Once the two pieces are separated you will see a smaller retaining clip that holds that triple-headed bearing to the axle, just pry that sucker off and you're good.
And prepare for a HUGE GREASY MESS!!! I'm sure you've done CV's before.
Back to the pedal assm. I found some adjustment of the clutch travel is necessary. The clutch master cylinder has a max of 1 1/8" travel and I was going past that. The fix is simple. This only takes a few min's. Chris and Doug, yours should be the same.
Loosen the jam nut then screw the pedal arm into it's receiver as far as it will go. Now check your travel. It should be 1" now. If not, adjust accordingly. Then tighten the jam nut, tightly. Now add a nut to the bottom (as shown in pic) with locktite. You could spot weld it but you may want to remove it one day.This will add some area to the end which will be stop. The floor board has an indentation that will accept this "foot" perfectly. It's hard to see in the pic's but it's there.
Disregard this conglomeration on the end of the pedal shaft. I discovered later that it was not needed, only one 14mm x 1.5 nut.
Up postion
Down and seated
This pic shows the clevis connection (you should have about 8mm of threads protruding from the clevis. Note the washer inside the clevis. This was done to fill the void and to throw the rod a bit to the side for clearance. I trimmed the throttle piece (and IIRC so did pcar) which gives me a clean 8mm separation between clutch and throttle linkages. Notice the 19mm spacer in place of the return spring.
And some trimming of the throttle linkage
It looks like you matched the master cylinder size to the stock Subaru clutch? With the Wilwood are you getting enough travel to fully disengage the clutch at the tranny? I think that the stock slave cylinder has a .75" diameter so the ratio comes out to be something like .833 and (if I've done the math correctly) that would result in a maximum of 1.1" of travel to the clutch fork. I don't know what the lever ratio is for the clutch fork so I don't know what that amounts to in terms of travel for the throw-out bearing. I'm just curious if you knew how much travel is required to full disengage the clutch? 1" seems like it should be plenty....?
p.s. I'm about to purchase a clutch master for my project and don't have a clutch to play with to get the measurements so I was hoping you might have them
I guess I'm looking for the distance that the slave cylinder needs to travel in order to disengage the clutch. On mine I don't have a clutch or pressure plate yet so I can't make any measurements except to note that the clutch fork has easily 2" of travel (about 1 inch in either direction).
Sounds like you will have a one to one rato on your system which will give you almost 1.5". I imagine that will be plenty. I'm just paranoid about getting the wrong size without doing the math.
The 7/8" hose arrived today and the 3/4" will be here Friday. I had resigned myself to running the hose beneath the car but the more I thought about it the more I convinced myself I can do this as originally planned; thru the longs. I used this old 2" wet vac hose for a couple of things. First was to thread the pull line thru the long so I ran the rope thru the hose and this plug with a knot in the end.
Started in the cabin and by gently pushing and twisting the vac hose it passes easily thru the long.
Then I tied one end of the rope in the cabin and pulled the vac hose out thru the engine compartment leaving only the line inside the long. After I drilled a small hole in the end of the hose I threaded the pull line thru the hose.
Using the curve in the hose I threaded it in engine side while pulling on the line until this.
Then I threaded a 12" piece of the 2" vac hose back over the heater hose and thru the "90" to prevent the hose from kinking. The fit is so close that it enables me to make tighter turns.
This is the larger and hotter of the 2 hoses so I'm running it in the pass long but I'm hoping that the way it's run will aid in not heating the long too much. I cut a piece of this 3" wet vac hose using the male end which fits very tightly inside the 90. I passed the other end thru the old hole into the area below the WWW reservoir. Inside this I added a piece of 2" so it is double walled. The greater pressure in the front compartment will pass somewhat thru the long and hopefully exhaust some heat. Here the 3" is slid over the heater hose and into the 90.
A shot of the tight fit I mentioned
A look from the other side.
And the piece of 2" before it is placed inside the 3" to make it double walled.
And with it threaded in. There will be another tight turn here and I want it for support as well.
Now with the original grommet back in place. A good seal will be necessary if I want to exhaust some of that heat.
And with the reservoir back in place
Real estate in this area is getting scarce.
Alriiiiight!!! Now it's getting serious!
In continuation of the "bromance" you started I'm sending you some water wetter. Supposed to reduce temps a bit. I know Bob and others have confirmed it's pretty easy to cool a Subie but when you go through the longs you might get a little bump up.
I was thinking of going through the longs as well. The idea I was going to try involved fire retardant "Great Stuff" foam injected into the longs after the hose was installed. I'm back/forth on it still.
There's also the idea of wrapping the tube with the stuff you use for headers and tailpipes. I bought a bunch of that to use at one time. Maybe it'll get put to good use here?
Is there anyone that can tell me how hot the longs get without adding anything to help with the heat?
Yeah Doug the foam might be a bad idea...hate to see you get water trapped in that pretty car. If you fish the hoses through the heater tubes I'd think the heat transfer would be minimal but could be wrong...it's not touching the long directly for the most part right
BTW I'll search the stash this weekend for door handles, thanx for the LED mirror turn signals! Bromance #2....
I was more thinking about foaming the inside of the heater tube, once the radiator tube is installed. No real chance of water doing damage to a rubber tube, inside of another tube. I wouldn't want to fill up the long, unless I was 100% certain that I wasn't going to have any way for water to get in there. Most modern car frames are filled with foam without issue. (Although they weren't build with shitty seam welds in the 1970s.)
I'm at least a month away from needing to care about this, so I'll 'wait and see' what I can come up with between now and then.
I had mine run through the longs originally on my v8. It is damn near impossible to get all the air out of the system. The whole burping process is kind of a bitch. Much worse when you add an extra peak to the setup. If you are going to do it that way. I would do something to add a valve at the top by your gas tank on both sides. Not sure that will even get it all but it will sure help. You are also making your water pump work that much harder. Everyone hates them running under the car for some reason. I won't do it another way now. Although I have considered cutting the top off the center tunnel. Adding a good inch of height to the side. Then insulating & running them through the car. Also making the top of the tunnel a removable deal
As nice as you think it will be using the heater run in the longs. I can guarantee it will work better under your car. On my v8 I couldn't get it to cool consitently until I moved them under the car. Easy straight shot for running your hose & easier for your water pump to move all that water. Your already asking your water pump to push more water than it is designed for . With a Suby it may work just fine though. It isn't as much work to cool them as an old school v8. Can't wait to see how it comes out
I don't think the problem is that we are pumping "more" water than the pumps are designed for. The volume in the system does increase, but the gpm stays the same. Since it's an enclosed system there is no static head to speak of, so the pump won't notice the additional volume...sort of... We are in effect increasing the pumping head by adding more tubing length. Looking at some generic hose pressure drop chart you could be adding as much as 50 psi more head on the pump (assuming 10 feet of additional length, 3/4" hose, and 60 gpm)! More head = less flow at a given RPM = less ability to cool the motor. Interestingly, if you are running 1" hose for the same length and gpm the pressure drop is only 12 psi. Moral of the story here is to size your hose a bit bigger than stock (in my opinion).
I agree with Jamie that the way those hoses are currently routed will make bleeding the system a pain. I'm also wondering if that Gates hose can make that tight 90 degree bend at the front of the long without collapsing (pinching). I'm running the McMaster Carr variant hose and I know it would be pinching really bad with that tight of a radius. A pinch in the hose would mean certain cooling problems (massive flow reduction and likely flashing of the coolant inside the hose). I would double check that before committing - maybe the Gates hose can take tighter bends?
A lot of good input and thus far things I have already considered. No substitute for experience, though! Jamie, I'm hoping that all goes well with the long install but I won't know until it's running. The only issue I expect might come into play is distance and the number of turns added. OIOW, increased drag. Head pressure will not be an issue with the closed system. I've anticipated the air trap's and will install vents @ the high points on both sides of the cabin if necessary.
Skeates, I should not have to worry about the line kinking. That is the purpose of using the 2" vac hose. It keeps the hose round when making tight turns.
Most of what I've read said I'm headed in the wrong direction but I'm going to try it anyway (I'm 1/2 English and 1/2 Dutch = pedigree hard head) . If I'm wrong it's easy enough to route it beneath the car. But if it works then it is a much cleaner install and aesthetically pleasing to the eyes.
So, to continue down this path I have completed the "run" from engine to radiator on the left side. This left side will be run a bit different than the right side because of the radiator in/outs locations. The left side will have 1 high spot which is in the front next to the gas tank. The right side which is the top hose (to both rad and engine) will have 2 high spots. One in the engine bay and one in the front compartment. Here are a few pic's of the left side's route.
As you can see in these next 3 pic's, the hose lines up perfectly with the inlet after exiting the long. No up or down travel, yet.
And just like the right side it is double sleeved and goes thru the old duct hole.
Once inside the front compartment it turns and goes out the fender. Another tight turn but the vac hose keeps it from crimping. (FYI; a 90 degree elbow is = 12' lineal piping. ) Notice the metal sleeve. I put that there so the fender wouldn't eat a hole in the hose and it gives it some support. From inside......
And from the wheel well
Then it hugs the wheel well behind the shock (where there is no chance of contact with the tire or rim)
It hugs the wall until it passes thru the fender. There will be another sleeve placed here as it was above.
from the inside
Even though the car is "jacked up" it is difficult to see once installed. It will still need to clamped and secured into place. I suspect only a midget or someone in a go kart would see it.
Onward thru the Fog! "Oat Willie"
Kent,
I used 1.25" ID hose, in and out. I recall referencing the Subaru engineered output ID and reluctantly reduced it down. I am not saying 3/4" will not work but it seems small.
I have thought about rerouting my lines behind the rocker panel. I have room over the jack point. It would need putting a bulge in the rocker panel to get around the boxed in area at the lower door jam. Then, I think, I would have to go under the car from there.
With 3/4" hose, I think this route would be much easier for you. You may be able to do it with out a rocker mod and up the top of the inner fender well.
sheath that rubber hose where ever you can. it can wear surprisingly fast when rubbing against metal/etc.
Will do, Jimbo. I didn't have much time today and managed to waste most of what I had. I did however reach a "firing solution" as to the right side's route. It would have been easier to run it in the wheel well but this should make burping it easier. I laid this piece across what I thought was the lowest area and closed the hood. Much to my surprise the hood closed.
I wondered if the hose had just flattened down and allowed the hood to close so I laid this putty about and took a few measurements here and there. And sure enough... see the flat spots in the putty and the corresponding witness mark on the hood.
This seemed to be the best location to cut because it was between the tank and shock tower.
a patch piece
primed and ready to be welded in
Kent I'll need the end of the subaru axle and the star race for the Subaru CV joint.
If your using the 914 stock axles there is no need to send them. I have plenty here.
I was surprized at how easy it was to cut my subaru axle. About 30 seconds with a 4" cut off wheel.
Rather than all the 'up/down/up/down' would it be better to go through and under the fuel tank, then across to the longs? I'm planning this out right now too. Was thinking of welding up a tube to the frame so in not worried about a soft/hot hose in the cabin.
Wow your radiator is so stealth I don't even see it You'll have to tell me your secret
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This is how the 7/8" return line ties into the 1.25". A 3/4" coupling is inserted into the 7/8"
Then the 7/8" hose is inserted in to the 1.25" and clamped in place.
Jumping back a bit I finally finished the clutch sans fluid. A quick check for fit..........
I remembered reading that SS sheathed hoses often fail because road grime gets inside and wears thru the Teflon liner. I should have used heat shrink but I used electrical tape. Either one should make a big difference in this area, for sure.
Found this on ebay for $9. It has an 1 1/8" throat which is exactly the same size as the o.d. of 1" copper tube.
This is the manifold that will connect the 2ea. - 1.25" outlets from the suby engine. (It has one inlet and 2 outlets). I came out of the top of the tee with the fill riser (as seen below) but after thinking about it that tee will be replaced with a long radius 90 then the tee will be re-installed. I think it should greatly improve the flow over a sharp turn that would occur in the tee. I'll post it when I change it. So just know this will change a tad.
Now you can see what I'm after. This fill cap should be the highest point in the car and for sure, in the engine compartment. It is attached to 2 1.25" horizontal hoses which combined are about 18" in length. This will be anchored later or it would fall down. However, I will make some anchor that is easily removable in case that I need to pull up on it for venting/burping purposes.
For the most part the work is all but finished in the front trunk area. There may be some additional cutting/venting once it's running. There are a few wires to connect with the Suby wires once I fall back into the wiring phase again. I think it was Skeates who mentioned he was tired of playing Concentration with himself when describing the wiring. Very well put. Overall I'm happy with the way this area has turned out. I forgot to mention that I have about a 3"x 2' x 16" area beneath the radiator that can store tools, etc. And there should be room for a collapsible spare to boot. (would that be a pun in England?)
Then I moved on to the floor pans. I had plenty more bed liner so I did this area in it also. Besides, it's some tough shit and this area can stand a little extra protection.
Ross, this is the controller that you need. It was a convenient time for me to snap this shot for you. Everyone else is saying, "What the Hell did he put that in there for?"
Oops, forgot this shot of the cold inlet tie in at the engine.
Guess what's next on my list?
Kent,
Are there any markings on the box or is it just plain?
Also, I thought I had read that using copper in the coolant system with an aluminum black could cause sacrificial corrosion of the engine. Have you heard anything about that? It would be awful nice to be able to use a copper tee for my 1.25" hose. I have been having a devil of a time finding an aluminum one.
-Ross
Outstanding progress. One quick question though:
Which bed liner did you end up using? That's on my list, and I don't want to use what I used last time.
I'm re-thinking what size pipe to run under the car too...was going with 1 1/4 as well but if that isn't necessary I'll go smaller. Much easier to bend the smaller it is (insert easy joke response here....).
Great progress Kent! BTW guys can you coat the inside of that copper with anything that would keep it from reacting/breaking down into the water? Or slow it down enough to make it less of an issue?
what bed liner did you use? I used some duplicolor stuff from the FLAPS and it was garbage it scratched pretty quick
For my joints, I bout some aluminum extenders off amazon, but the tee required for the EZ30 is what is killing me (one cold return @1.5" but TWO outlets @ 1.25"!)
''Radiator new was <$60 so it wouldn't hair lip me if it tanked.''
Radiator? What about the motor?
Thx Bob, you gave me these guys name. This is just a temp thing for me to tinker with.
Mike, if I read that article right it gave a voltage value for CI and Alum engines where they began to disintegrate. If I stay well below that or near 0 then what happens? You need a source of energy. I think if this went south the radiator would go 1st, 2nd and 3rd before an engine would. .030" walls vs 1/4"+. Interesting thing about electrolysis effecting head gaskets, huh?
Well, the copper ftg's can be re-used when/if I chunk them. I think Porsche knew that about tranny current and put the tranny ground strap bolt just for Suby conversions. It started off as a way of fitting everything together. But now.............I want to actually check the current. In fact, I think this should be done regardless of your radiator cooling system. Have you done yours, yet. I wish you were closer. We could check it out. You need two people or an octopus to do the check. BTW, add movement and heat to the energy source list. This stuff is fascinating to me and others with a sub IQ. I'm easily amused.
I keep digging through my PC looking for a different document that I'm not finding. I remember a different one that was very good. I never did a final check for current.
We have this problem at work on CNC machines with the coolant systems. Everything is SS and aluminum separated by epoxy paint, fiberglass shims, aircraft tank seal... nothing seems to work for very long. Once the aluminum starts, it goes fast.
The aluminum boat guys have the same problem in salt water. They must have a sacrificial zink plate, Galvanic anode. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_anode
It makes me wonder about that that OG Suby conversion with complete copper system? Eric Thresher was it? I would like to see a follow up on that car.
Man I obviously don't understand the science behind the problem here...just won't use copper then.
Yeah that car was for sale a while back...he sure did use some copper:
http://www.etischer.com/914xt.html
Double
Ah...yeah that sounds bad....
Well I guess we won't. Email bounced back to me. Onward thru the Fog. I picked up a used front sway bar. Sandblasted it, some new bushings, some paint and it gets another life. Looking down on the right side with the tank out you will see the raised flat area that needs to be trimmed. I found the appx center on the round flat aea where the mount is located then made a cut 45mm long (22.5mm either side of center) and 13mm away from the edge as shown. Clear as mud, huh?
Then a few holes on each end.
Then with a large punch I beat this piece down and flush with the wall.
Then back inside the wheel well I measured over from the brake line brace to locate center. Don't confuse this 45mm mark with the one inside. They overlap but are staggered.
Then down 13mm from the arch to locate the top of the "inside" brace. The plate that goes inside the wheel well is not the same shape. The bolt pattern is the same. And the infamous "too big" pic on Pelican was for the interior brace so thought I'd mention that. This is why I used that piece to mark the holes later.
Again, referring to Pelican's article I located and drilled the front upper bolt first.
Drilled a small hole from this side
Finished this small hole up to 8mm
Then back inside the well to install this piece and locate/drill the remaining holes.
With the 3 bolts installed and in place I can see the center mark and mark and center punch where the 1" hole goes.
With the center pilot hole drilled out the hole punch is put to use. A shot from both sides.
Here are some shots showing how the radiator hose just clears all this in the left wheel well. Btw, all this comes back out for some quick paint and I ordered the wrong size bushings so I'm awaiting those.
It occurred to me that this may be the last time this tank is out so I thought I would put some gas in it to see what leaks before hand.
EDIT: Forgot to ask this. When I weld the inner brace to the well do I spot or seam weld it? TIA, Kent
Awesome progress Kent.
I was going to weld up the two bottom lined on my stock tank too, since I'll be using the Subaru feeder/pump. I may cut a bigger hole in the bottom first so I can make sure the feeder is all the way at the bottom.
Something to remember: Only put a LITTLE fuel in at first. After you get your gauges set up, you'll need to know how many gallons you have left when the "feed me" light goes on. I always start with 1-gal, and then add it in 1/2-gal increments until the wife/kid inside the car says "It's off!" That gives me an idea of how long I have.
Kent, are you using the H6 pump or an impreza version? My EZ30 pump seems like the pickup is too short to be used in our tanks.
-Ross
Ross, It's from an Impreza. Save the H-6 pump. I think the motors are interchangeable. I had to rotate the pick up tube 180 degrees but that is covered in the thread. IIRC. If not, LMK. I'll get it for you.
Hope this helps, Ross. R-122 is the blk 10 pin in the lower left corner. It has a grey sheath as seen. Kent
Here is a close up of the controller and R-122 plug
I've been busy as a one armed Cranberry merchant for the past few weeks so I haven't accomplished much with the car. But I did get to tinker in the garage yesterday. Once again, I have shamelessly appropriated one of Bigkat83's ideas. I moved the battery to the drivers side. And for 2 reasons. One, to replace it with OEM parts was too pricey for my beer budget and two, the Suby battery cable would reach this side, barely. Although I believe the fiberglass battery tray that I put in the '76 is better in every way, I promised myself I would stick with metal on this car. I found these pic's of my mold for it taken 5 yr's ago yesterday. What a coincidence! The drinking straw is where the drain went (to the ground).
This time I took some 18ga scrape and made the base and angle pieces. Not much to say other than I used the OEM relay board mount which in itself was not strong enough so bracing was welded in beneath it. Primer, paint and Plastidip to follow.
And I put a front sway bar in the week before but you already saw that here http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=232123&hl= I did weld the inner plates but didn't get an after pic. BTW, that's Hell welding in there. It would be a snap if on a rotisserie.
Wow, I was so busy the last 10 days I goofed off for some R&R this weekend. I decided this was easy enough so I did this little 1 hr project and now feel better about the some protection for the clutch MC. The shield had been trimmed to allow the MC to fit.
And with this 90 elbow and and line even more trimming was necessary
I had an old Mapp Cylinder I saved just for this. So a quick pass thru the chop saw.
Then a pass with the welder
Next time I pull this I'll trim off about 3" at the rear, place some Wurth's at the seams and paint it. Look at the right side of the pic and you will see a slit that was cut. That was ball peened to allow for the hose and will be closed up when pulled again.
That's pretty awesome. I'm going to steal that idea from you.
...now to go find a dead torch bottle.
So... what was easier/harder? Building this or an airplane? Nice work.
Didn't get to work on mine today but I did put another boot in Cancer's ass. I finally got this 19mm style finished for Stephan (aka 914forme) who made a "very generous" donation to the "Fund" for the Cap'n Krusty's niece.
I removed about 3lb's of rust so I primed and sealed your brake base plate to seal it until you paint. The clutch plate was just primed as it is new steel. Hence, the different shades. I went with the 1/8" increase you measured so it should fit the 19mm master cylinder. I need to pick up the correct length bolt for the brace then I can ship it to you. PM me for shipping info. FWIW, I'm very close to powering up the electrical on the BlackBird. I should probably warn the Fire Dep't. ahead of time.
Thank you Thank you Thank you. This was such a win win you have done a great thing here.
OK Stephan, your baby is finished w/ new 8mm bolts. I threw in a cover you can weld to your pan. I threw a smaller spring inside the package. Throw away the one that is presently on there.
Now, back to work on my car. I didn't get to work on it the previous weekend or evenings these past few weeks but I did get some time in Saturday. Actually I did squeeze this 1 hr project in before Saturday. I wanted to keep this cover so I cut two slits, raised it up about 10mm then cut two small triangle pieces and them in. Damn that's some thin metal. Is there a rust filter I'm missing. All my work looks rusty in pic's.
Continuing my trek thru Hell I started on the wiring that "I think" I will need in this area. The old relay board is long gone and all that remains is the 14 wire harness which you can see in the Chinese Pony Clamp. Of those 14 I am using 4 wires.
The Y will still go the starter solenoid, the B (switched +12v) will be my trigger for the relay controlling the new "switched ign" requirements, #12 R & #14 R are fused thru Tom's fuse block and will serve two requirements at the Suby ECU. Those 2 fuses will reduce to 15A.
I added this 4ga from the bat cable to the new "power dist area". BTW, most of this is temp and will be tidied up later.
There are 2 terminal blocks in the pic. One is switched power the other is + BAT.
Some scavenged relays. One for now and one for later.
I know of two things that will change in these pic's later. The fused terminal block isn't mounted and Tom's 4 fuse block will be changed to a 6 fused unit. The 8ga & 10ga wires I ran to the front as well as the switched and BAT terminals will be fused thru the unarrived fuse terminal block. This will make since once I install that fused dist block.
Thanks Mark. I finally received that part so it might make sense now. The #4 wire feeds fused dist box. That box feeds 2 new lines thru the tunnel and the BAT terminal. There are two relays side by side. The relay on the left gets it's power from the BAT terminal, as well as a few other items. It in turn powers the +12v switched terminal. The 4 fuse box is hanging loose for now and 2 fuses changed to 15a. Next I need to wire the Y to the new starter circuit. The relay on the right will control the starter solenoid and take the load off that 41 yr old switch. I added another ground terminal next to the relays. That is 2 plus the factory ground on the left side! Can't have enough grounds. The rest I covered in the last post. After that I'm pretty much finished in the engine compartment and will need to connect 7 wires to the gages. I'll be on my knees asking questions at that point for sure.
Oh, wow that is outstanding! Here I was out huffing my Mapp Cylinder tonight, just trying to get it down to use for this. 4
Thanks again, great work, and it was my pleasure to help anyway I can.
Don't know why I didn't post this earlier. I received these a few weeks back. The L side fits fine but the right side is appx 1-2mm too long. I need to drop the engine once more so I will see if I can get it to fit once the engine is dropped a few inches. I think that my cradle might be out of square or the car for that matter. I should have measured both sides instead of assuming they are equal lengths. No matter, I'll sell them if not and cut another pair. My tranny lines up almost straight across so any trans that is offset by an inch or 2 should be OK to use these if I can't use them.
So this is the side that fits right?
As the car sets in the picture(axle level) how much movement do you have on the axle? Pushing into the transaxle cv joint.
Bob
I finally connected the bat tonite. Started by adding one fuse at a time until power was restored to cabin. When I hit "start" I just got a loud click which can be many things. New clutch binding, crappy starter, bad ground(s) or other bad connection? The solenoid which I added in the start circuit (to aid the switch) might not be sized correctly and God only knows what else. Before I go further I'll jump the starter solenoid so I know which path to follow
What the FUCH am I dancing for then. Because nothing popped; no majic smoke. I'm not saying there aren't problems ahead. I haven't energized the ECU nor connected the cursory gage wires so maybe I'm not out of the woods, yet. It's just a matter of plugging 2 fuses in zap it but I wanted to quit for the nite and enjoy the moment.
Stay on it man.
You're close!!!
Hey way to go Kent! No smoke is good! That happened to me and the problem was I didn't have it wired up to the starter relay quite right so it wasn't engaging the starter. You'll figure it out.
I got all my hoses, just waiting for reducers and a few other things and I should be ready to plumb mine up. Think I better install the clutch first though. Hey do you have the part # for "L" shaped fitting you used on the end of the clutch master cylinder?
Good going! Now once yours starts properly I'll need you to make a detailed schematic of your harness . Kidding about that, but seriously, great progress!
I jumped the starter solenoid tonite and nothing. I was going to drop the starter for bench testing and I thought maybe I should confirm a good ground. I ran a jumper cable from the -BAT to the bolt head on the starter and whadaya know. Spins the engine like crazy. I ran another ground and will add a few more to the engine block. Then turned the ign key over and I listened to that 6 wanting some gas. Got an instant shit eating grin on my face. Speaking of gas my next item will be to reform Robert's (Rotary914) SS fuel lines to suite my needs. I was lucky enough to see him at G&R and asked him about bending his lines while in place. They're almost new so I'll make em work for me. After the gas is hooked up I might have see if it will start. The further I get without a major screw up the more I worry I'm due a doozy.
I want to keep center console with it's gage cluster so I thought I'd make a run at installing a Suby gage in the center gage cluster. My donor is a clock.
I read where Toolguy uses a hose clamp around the bezel before prying it off to keep it from stretching and getting beaten to . My hose clamp was kind of beefy and I didn't trust it would conform so I took this short piece of 2.5" copper and cut a slit in it. The diameter was 1mm too small to slip over the bezel.
Then I placed the gage so the bezel was flush with the edge of the copper sleeve and tightened a hose clamp around the copper to lightly compress the bezel.
Here it is from the south end.
Then work a small flat blade screw driver around about 80% of the circle and remove the bezel and glass.
Next remove the 3 screws from the back, clip the solder joint off and the clock will fall out.
Clamp the gage to the can and mark for first cut with a scroll
A quick test fit
These are the pins that are attached to the circuit board which this gage was originally attached to. I pulled them out of the circuit board with pliers then put them in the vise and hit them with heat and a blast of compressed air to blow out the solder joint. It leaves a neat little pattern where the solder blows.
The 3 posts soldered with leads in and ready to place in the can
I haven't closed the bezel as I need to locate a glass cover w/o the hole in the center. And the silicone holding the gage in place isn't dry but other than that I think this one is done.
Attached image(s)
Nice Job on the gauges Kent, also the pedal cluster made it, and it looks great, thanks again.
My Subaru 914 gauges from NHW Speedo.
These might be the last 3 wires that need to be connected. One is an addition; the Check Engine Light, one is Temp which is waiting for the center console for final connection and the other is for the Tach which I haven't converted yet. There are a few wire nuts and crimp connectors that will be corrected but the end is in sight.
Finally got up the courage to cut the front bumper and fairing.. We'll see how this works before I clean it up. It obviously needs to be blacked out before it's screened.
Are those dollies the little half-size HF dollies?
Now you've done it! Time to gas it up.
Yeah don't feel bad I was planning to drive mine to Garold's annual event in August last year. Riiiiight! I'll be lucky to make this one but it's looking pretty good.
[quote name='Chris H.' post='2034364' date='May 7 2014, 05:21 AM']
Now you've done it! Time to gas it up.
[/quote]
I'm sneaking up on it. I think back a year ago when I thought it might run by Oct. I was smart enough to keep that one to myself. I know now, that I should never have stopped working on the electrical and should have stayed with it start to finish. The start/stop method requires that I re-familiarize myself each time I re-start and at my age that is not smart. Shit I can't even remember what I had for breakfast!
[/quote]
I was going to you and Doug to drive to the G&R
Looking good.
Doug and I would have been happy to drive our new conversions there had we been able. If'n the good Lord's willing and the creeks don't rise I'm pretty sure there will be 3 more conversions hitting the road this summer.
The Suby Temp gage that I just transplanted received an upgrade. I had recessed the gage a bit too far, it felt rubbery and was just a hair out of square. As you can seen an 1 1/2" ABS (or PVC) coupling fits like it was made for it. It needs to be trimmed to 28.5mm in length and siliconed on both ends. The ridge or stop inside the coupling will interfer with the gage if it is placed towards the top. IOW, the stop is dead center inside the coupling until I cut some off one end. Now, the gage sits flush, it's base is sturdy and it sets the depth so the needle clears the lens.
I'm getting close!
Really only about a month later than I wanted. I can be ok with that.
Your build is looking great man. Stay with it!
While waiting on some tach cans I thought it might be a good idea to run some fuel lines. My original plan was to run the fuel to the left side along the firewall. However, that side ended up being quite busy so I left the SS lines in place. I decided to run the gas line across the engine (just like the 914) but I didn't want to worry about the rubber lines shooting fuel about the compartment. So I bought these 5/16" anodized lines in 51" & 60" lengths. $15 for both.
Then a few simple tools and 45 min's later
Test fit the first piece. You can't see it but they will run one spaced above the other along a 1" path above the TB opening. No room to wiggle.
They're flipped 180 from how they'll attach. That will happen after I drop the engine again. Then I can do some spring cleaning and tidying up.
That looks really nice! Let's hear her fire up!
-Rob
Thx Rob, but it's no where near your level of expertise.
I found that I needed to change the gage layout a bit if I'm to use the Suby tack and Suby speedo. But I can't use the existing panel and need to make another one. The new panel will have 2 large cans and 1 small can vs. the old layout of 2 small and one large. I think there is just enough room but I won't know until I get the cans next week. But there's stuff I can do now. I need a model so time to pull the gages and remove the panel. Luckily I never removed the markers I put on last year so that was time saved.
A piece of some aluminum plate cut to appx size with a pilot hole for alignment to the OG panel.
My tool box top has a nice big radius lip so I covered the edge with some blue painters tape and pulled the plate across it several times to get a gradual curve like the OG.
A quick layout check
Checking the bottom for flatness after the lower flange(s) were bent. I couldn't have one continuous lip because of the curvature of the face.
Another quick test fit. Still on track.
Now to countersink the holes
I need to buy another flycutter so I can cut those holes. The centers are punched so it will just be a matter of cutting the holes. But before I can do that I need to laminate the back with 5/8" poly carbonate. Once that is drilled out it should create the shoulders for the gages just as the stamped OG panel has. More when the cans arrive.
EDIT: These holes are marked incorrectly. They are each 5mm too large. So 115mm & 100mm.
The 2 salvage tach's came today. Thx Garold, once again. Remove 4 screws on the backside and everything falls out after the bezel is removed.
These little post do double duty. They support the gage and also function as light tubes for the blinkers and HiBeam light.
Here is the Suby gage that was cut from the panel cluster. It still needs to be trimmed.
Use the line that is the radius line of the gage face. It's where dull black goes to grey or clear.
Then drill a hole (be damned sure to use a bit for plastic) as shown for the stock HiBeam indicator lite.
This is strictly a Shits n Grin mock up to see is it works. A piece of alum with a couple of holes and some electrical tape to blend in.
Temp taped to the back. Final vers will be glued in place w/ arrows.
The HiBeam hole (in yellow) from the back of gage.
Put a little power to it to see what it would look like. It also need a blue lens for the HiBeam tube. The turn signals are now on the bottom and HiBeam on top. Otherwise it's pretty damned stock looking.
Next up is the Suby Speedo Transfer.
WOW.
Kent, your making this look far too easy.
Why wasn't this done before.
Maybe, I saw all that circuit board and looked the other way. Didn't think of digging that deep.
I still have my AT Suby cluster and converted and aborted 914 gauges.
I should make mine like you are doing and pass them on. Good work
Im not sure why people fear gauges so, but as normal thx for showing us another way of doing this.
BTW, you can pickup a sample of plastic light lens films, the sheets are great to change or update colors for things like High Beams and warning lights. Literally any color you want under the rainbow is yours. All in light translucent glory.
Now lets get this thing fired up
Yeah this is awesome. I liked the SVX gauge faces and thought about cutting them down but decided not to. The panel is way too big but now you got me thinking...
Well Mike, if it weren't easy and cheap I wouldn't do it. Thx Stephen and Chris. . Well this post on the Speedo install will be short because almost all of the work is the same covered in the Tach post! One difference is the speedo is also installed in a large "tach can". As you can see it is the same size as the Suby tach and needs to be trimmed to fit and the window won't have turn signals.
Then I peeled the laminate face off of the old Suby panel face and robbed some needed labels.
Thought I'd throw in this side by side of OG Tach and Suby Tach.
And the finished products
Dude.... Seriously way to dig into that pod and make it your beyotch.
You are doing some really great work any CSOB will appreciate your ingenuity. I really like how your car is coming along.
Thx guys but its really just that simple. You'll see if you do it.
Great work and you make it look too easy! Now you've got me thinking about my Subie guages....
You might want to try for lighting if you don't go LED,,,since your gauges are open.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=91867&hl=el+wire
-Rob
The needles on the Subie gauges also MIGHT light up. Not sure how that works...
I wish I lived closer to Doug...can't swing anything now but we'll see how the summer goes. For sure someone needs to roll out there and help him finish that car. Or BS and tell big fish stories and drink bottled beverages while SITTING in the unfinished car. Man stuff.
I think Doug should toss together a meet up and a few of use might be able to run up, or over depending on our locations. Not many can run down, Lake Erie kinda makes that a little hard. He needs a few good hands on that car to get it done.
I am booked solid though most of the summer.
Thanks Stephen and Kent.
MY reality right now is that I'm moving out of the house with the garage, and may not have access to come here all that often. I'm looking for a "garage space" on Craigslist to move everything to that's closer to where I'll be living for the next few months.
This was a curve ball for sure.
Doug, you have no excuse for not moving to SoCal now.
And Chris, your a genius! I guess I should slow down a little more. As you can see there are a few dark spots but miles better than stock using stock bulbs. I suspect the dark spots are areas where the post interfere and I may just leave it as is. Anyway, thanks for stopping in and pulling my head out of my ass, Chris!
An Andyesque style but you get the idea.
Well that pretty much does it. I'm keeping subie gauges for sure now.
I really dig this gauge mod.
Whaaaa? Hey you're DOING stuff...I'm just watching. Very easy to do from the arm chair. Hope I didn't come off wrong 'cause I really have no idea how those things are wired. ALMOST took my pod apart last year but it looked so weird inside compared to the old school gauges I decided not to. If the needles light up that will look awesome. The CEL light is a bonus too. If you can't get good light uniformity when you get them all done go for LED in the background and light up the needles with regular lights. I have an SVX and an Impreza gauge pod if you break anything but it looks like you're good. To this point I was planning to go all VDO but I'm calling a major time out now.
BTW I will be ready to ship that Honda OR Yamaha filler neck this weekend. Gonna start the plumbing and it really looks like the Yamaha will win but who knows.... You need any 7/8 hose for the connection down to the tee or do you still have plenty?
Beat it to death?? Whatever dude! It's info and pics like this that let us drool over the work and gives us all kinds of ideas! And gets us going on to the next project, brings smiles to faces, gives hope to the hopeless... oh well, it's just idol worshipping at this point...
Wow. Those look stock like they belong there. Game changer. Looks like I might need some busted tachs!
Hey Kent I've been thinking about your cooling system. This is just a suggestion, but if you teed that 7/8 return line directly into the larger lines at the engine so they're at the same height, would this be your high point?
You COULD put the filler neck there if you wanted to whenever you decide to take the copper stuff out. I'm sure you could find a spot for a reservoir or move your washer bottle. Just an idea. Not saying it's a good one. I can't tell if that's actually the highest point or not.
You read my mind. That is indeed a high spot and the one on the left side is almost as high. I had planned on placing that filler neck a few inches behind that. With a vent tee installed on the left side 3/4" hose. And with the filler neck in the engine compartment, I'll have 3 spots from which to vent/fill.
Well I better get to work then! Finally have part of a day tomorrow. Those gauges are KILLER man. I'm gonna pull mine out and look at them tonight.
Did a great job on the gauges. You must be running a center console or some other location.
I missed something though, is that stock Subaru gauge lighting? I am 1/4 awake and blind with out my glasses. Time for me to get wrenching, I am still on the tear down part of my project.
Goals today:
Finish indexing wheel on rotisserie.
Finish cutting up my front tub section, got the sheet metal I needed.
Pull the SVX engine and parts
Man I need to get off your post and get to work!!!!!!!
Kent keep up the great CSOB work, I love it.
Thanks for all the praise Guy's but I just fell in a bucket of and came out smelling like a Rose. And Stephen, no stock 914 lighting. You use two 914 Tach cans and re-use the stock lighting. All of it + 1 ck eng lite.
I said I would post the results of my 2nd attempt to support the gages if successful. First time I laminated 3 layers of poly carbonate (safety glass) successfully duplicating the curvature of the panel however when cutting the large diameter holes the fly cutter created enough heat to warp the small span areas. A few hours trashed there. Take a look at the next pic to see if you can guess where this is headed.
Think you know. I thought about glass to build up the back or even cardboard soaked in resin. But I settled on the $4 method. A can of this stuff. It is semi flexible which served me well as it is easy to manipulate for fitting and doesn't break off when bent. Yet it is sandable.
So I squirted out a nice layer around everything and let it dry.
These are the gages being taped firmly against panel prior to rotating for urethane foam.
Here it is after curing and first trim. That was done with a hack saw blade held flush with the gage backs. In this pic the first gage has been pushed out and you can see the remnants of tape, wax paper, and even some oozing of foam from the thick area. If you push with your thumbs while reaching around to the front lip with your fingers you can wiggle the gage a few times and it will release from the mold.
A few more as it is trimmed.
You've already seen what the gages look like installed so I won't bore you with that but if you don't want to go thru all of that you can take the rubber ring's that are tossed and install them from the rear with the lip firmly against the rear of the panel; then tighten the clamp. . Downside is you would have to install the panel/gages as a modular unit but damnnnnnnnnnnnn it's so easu to install that way.
I checked out the SVX gauge cluster and realized it was cracked at the base so I took it apart to see what the guts looked like. The problem with the tach and speedo is they aren't round. You could put some warning lights from the strip on the bottom to round it off.
FYI...prior to about 2005ish the backgrounds for the gauges themselves on most models are tinted green. If you don't like that you'd have to put some sort of backing on it.
There are no wires at all since the power is run on the back side of the cluster and connected with the screws that secure the gauges
The warning light system is surprisingly simple...just a regular light underneath the corresponding warning symbol. Easy to recreate.
This is the Impreza pod I have... If you like this style go for the WRX one instead with the larger tach in the center instead of the larger speedo. 2006 model (white background)
Maybe we should start a gauge thread...
What is the diameter of the SVX gage. And yes you could fill in the flat area. What are the diameters on the Impreza gages. Shoot me a close up of the back of those SVX gages. I want to see where the screws go. Are you talking about posts that slip inside the back of the gage when you say screws. Maybe 4 post per gage? If so you have to pull them from the circuit board with a pair of pliers or side cutters. I don't know if we need to start another thread on gages. It's Suby stuff and there is just a few of us. You can put it in your thread or Dougs thread or even Stephans tread. We could just add our Suby gage info to one if Pat Garvey's threads since he is feeling better.
Chris, I did the same thing you did, pulled my extra AT WRX cluster apart.
I wanted to see if the Suby cluster could be cut down, to just the face and circuit board, if it would fit within the 914 form.
It is tight but I see possibilities.
Kent, you had some dark areas on your gauge faces. Are you utilizing the clear polycarbonate prism looking part that channels the back light to the gauge numbers?
That may give you uniform light even if you have to drill holes in it.
Here is a photo of the post.
Attached image(s)
Wow weird. On the SVX pod there are no such posts. When you unscrew the gauges this is what you see:
Just plastic. The "wiring" is a flat copper piece that runs on the back of the pod. I guess the screws actually complete the connection because I can't see anything else connected to them.
The SVX gauges are pretty big, about 4.5". The Impreza middle gauge circle (either speedo or tach, whichever you get) is about 100MM, just shy of 4". The smaller ones are about 3.6", 91mm-ish. The plastic silver surround is an overlay so you can take that out and cut the circular piece out without having to use that silver part.
And the loser of the filler neck bake off and therefore on the way to Kent's house is.......
The Honda filler!!! I really like the compact size of this one. It was close but the thing that makes this perfect for you and not me is that the "down tube" is angled. It's like it was made for the front trunk. I needed one to go straight down. By the way I was wrong on the inlet sizes, looks like they are 1" on both types but I was able to very easily stretch the 7/8 on to both fillers by setting the end in fairly hot (out of the tap) water for a few minutes. No problem at all, slid right on.
BTW I wish I lived closer. Would have come over and pressed my $@#*ing roll pin out of the pedal cluster. Used a punch and the damn thing snapped off in there. Now I can't seem to find a drill bit that will actually drill the punch since it's such a hard metal. Pain in my arse. I remember installing that thing and thinking it was pretty hard to get in there, but hey I figured it was the last time I'd have to do that!
You won't believe what a perfect angle that is for my install. Perfect and thanks again, Chris. Be sure your punch is not a nail set. Those are pointed and will flare out the roll pin and cause it to grip even tighter. You can use a 6mm bolt for a drive pin/punch in a squeeze on that size roll pin. Be sure that the piece is on something heavy and solid when you strike it.
Yeah that's exactly what I did. Grabbed the wrong punch and the tip snapped off inside the center of the pin too so now it's really going well. BEEEYOTCH! I'll leave it for a day and try the bolt trick after I attempt to tap the punch piece out of the center.
You should get that filler in 3 days or so. Then it'll be about time to start that thing! BTW I think the cap pressure rating is 1.1 (16 lbs I think) which is higher than most stock subaru cap ratings of .9. Makes it even more perfect since you are running two fillers. Just make sure you use a .9 cap (13 lbs) on the rear one and that way if it ever overheats the pressure will release on the rear one first. Not saying the front one won't pop too but logically it would have to be VERY hot to get the secondary one to open when the system was already open and blowing steam.
That's not gonna happen anyway because it will be super cool all the time and never overheat.
No rush brother. I got plenty to do. Decided I need to pull my headers and get them jet-hot ceramic coated. They are practically touching the engine mounts. Gonna melt them for sure if I don't.
Well as the title says, I may have Shit in my Mess Kit but if I did I had fun and they will make nice ornaments. The Wtr Temp gage is good however tonite I began to search the Suby manual so I would know which wire went where from the Tach and Speedo. They 4 wires from each gage are COS+, COS-, SIN+ and SIN-. This part of the manual isn't clear but I think those wires go to a processor. ???? I'm stumped. Any ideas or suggestions??
Well the tach should connect to the ECU, or at least that's the way the SVX's works. Only one wire though. The speedo connects to the sensor on the trans but there are not 4 wires there either. Seems like that "circuit board" you pulled the pins out of was something you might need to use still. You can probably still use the gauges, just have to take a look at what that board does and maybe leave the gauges connected to it and solder a couple of wires for the speed sensor and tach wire. Also follow the wiring from that board back to the ECU and see if there is anything else in between. If not you can have the SVX gauges. I definitely won't use those.
On my conversion I used the stock 914 gauges, for the tach I added a adapter to convert the 5 volt pulse to a HV pulse to drive the tack. The speedometer uses the
stock 914 transmission drive cable. If you are using a stock gas tank you use the
stock gas gauge sender to drive the gas gauge, In my case I added a circuit to
drive the ecu (for emission testing) an to drive the stock gas gauge with a low
fuel indicator.
Yes, I've read (somewhere) about your tach conversion and will have to dig that up. And yes, I am using the stock fuel sender and gage, also. I'm running the Suby trans so I may end up with some magnetic pick up system (hall effect?).
Where's my slide rule?
I think you are looking at the wrong sender for the speedo, it works off the VSS
sending unit mounted to the trans and is a 5 volt pulse. It is normally has three wires.
Think I'm starting to migrate back towards the original direction of Speedhut gauges. I want something a little newer looking and those are so easy to set up. I'm not as good with small electrical stuff as you all are.
Kent I have the same Impreza gauge pod (manual trans so no PRND321 on it) and a tach adapt to change the tach to 6 cylinder readout. The speedo should connect to the vss on your trans. Probably would let them go for less than I paid (which is not much) if you decide you want to go that way.
Don't feel obligated, just telling you so you don't go buy 'em somewhere else for more. I think I got the gauge for ~$40 and the tach adapt for $65.
Check out the Speedhut stuff. The tach is totally programmable for most any engine and the speedo is gps. By the time you spend money on the senders you're half way there. A 4.5 inch tach and a 4" speedo revolution series is what I'm looking at. Brand new gauges, plug and play. The tach instructions are on the site too and show how to set it up on a bunch of different engine configurations. I'll go quad gauge too I think.
SpeedHuts are very shallow install depths. I like them, they also do a nice quad quad gauge if your looking for one of them. To be honest By the time you get done doing all the work, it is way cheaper to go this route. I just did them because I like to and it keeps me off the streets at night! But at some point in time if it is keeping you off the streets, it has a larger cost damage than the benefit of being a CSOB.
Right because you end up buying 6 different kinds of gauges to try with the CSOB method. Hence my collection of VDO and Denso swag.
I have drawers full, and $$$$ in these things. Evn for me I can make almost any gauge combination I want. I keep going back to speed hut and building a set of gauges.
I like them, they come with the sending units, GPS speedo, tachs that can do almost any signal, and customizable with graphics, etc....
For me the biggest issues with gauges is getting the faces to come out correctly. The lines, the fonts, the overall look and feel. Its about quality.
I love building things, but as I get older I have started to realize I will pay for some else's experience. I love being a CSOB, but look at things I have done recently and being CSOB, has not been paying off.
My rotisserie for example. Doug had one for $450, does everything mine does. Oh sure, I could hook up a motor to it ,and rotate it all day long with almost zero friction. I should use it for my next whole hog project! But in the end to get it where and the way I wanted it, I have spent way more than the $450. But I will say it was all kinds of fun.
I was going to build my flares, looking at the Metal Surgeon Threads I realized, I did not have the skills, to shape metal that well. But I really like the idea of a mostly body filler free car. So I hired a guy to make me a few flares. I don't expect him to be able to configure Cisco, HP, Aruba, PaloAlto networks and Firewalls. I don't expect him to know the details on how VMWare, or Hyper-V work. And I sure as heck would not have him do custom IP sub netting or IPV6 work. But build me parts, he is one of the best out there.
I will be welding in the flares, and spending a lot of time with a hammer and dolly, and easy grind wire. But it is a balancing act.
I could have built my cradle, I have the skills to do that, in the end, I would have purchased more in tools to do the project. Ian made it easy. Same thing with the shifter, I haven't even opened the box yet. I am sure it will be great looking time, much nicer than I could do!
Now, I did my own sway bars. They roll in roller bearings have no binding and no rotational friction. I built all these mounts and sourced my parts, used NASCAR bits, and bearings and retainers from TSC. Less than $100 I have a better system than I could buy. CSOB was worth it!
You win some you loose some. Some times you do it just because the mountain was there.
Now lets get back to building this car and getting it on the road. I need to live vicariously through you, Chris, and Doug! My conversion is at least a year out! Okay two, my boss says I'm to optimistic.
Your right, Stephen. I have no problem with getting back on the horse. And I'm certainly no stranger to failure. My craziness comes from wanting to try it myself which is an open invitation to failure. About 20 yr's ago I built an airplane. After that I pretty much got over having to do things 2,3 and 4 times (or more). Some journeys are longer and some are more difficult. It's the journey missed that I fear.
I love my speedhut guages! I highly recommend them with suby conversions. Look good & they come setup to work. A little info from you & they are ready out of the box. Of course setting them up was even easier for me
Look at SPEK gauges, the best out there. Kind of costly
Bob
Hey 15% off sale at speedhut this weekend!!!! Woooot! That settles it. BTW Kent I got your paypal. Will send that tach adapt out to you tomorrow.
I personally like the eurostile font but that style really matches the later Porsche gauge font. Hold the tach up to the screen and see what works best.
Great tip on that sale, Chris. Ordered my GPS Speedo tonite!
Pretty cool. Which one fits the standard 914 hole, the 4.5"? http://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4.5-GPS-02T/1/GPS-Speedometer-Gauge-140mph-%28w--turn-signal-and-high-beam%29
That depends. The small gage is 100mm and the large gage is 115mm. Your hole size may be slightly larger if you use the OEM rubber ring. No wrenching for me this weekend. I wrenched my back a bit so I'll give it a rest this weekend.
Yeah I was just measuring that myself....looks like 4" is the diameter of the smaller gauges (speedo, combo). I had heard 3 3/8 before. Hey Kent, just FYI in case you ordered 3 3/8!
Bummer about your back! Take it easy!
Nope, 4.5". Check post #347. I ended up with 2 large and one small opening after my gage follies. Heck of a deal, thank you. $260 shipped.
Oh right, duh...you stayed with the modified opening.
Just measured the inside of the speedo's rubber ring. 4" looks to be right diameter for a stock 914 dash panel
Font Style: Century
I missed that Mark but I did read the 4.25" gage size before ordering. With my panel I'm good.
I ordered a 4"-er for the 'BB'.
When I get it, I think I'm gonna black out the extra 'ticks' so it will look more like a stock VDO speedo. Also went with the 'Century' font ...
Will look like this when modified:
Mark speedhut MIGHT take those tick marks out or print a face without them for you for cheap. They do a lot of custom stuff. I know Chris (my928s4) added a redline on his tach.
Finally bought mine!
4" quad
4.5" tach
4" speedo
Eurostile font, blue night lighting.
$602 with shipping. Can't beat that since the quad gauge comes with temp and pressure senders, speedo is GPS, tach can be set up with any engine you might use going forward. The GPS converter I needed for the 911 speedo I was going to use was like $15 less than the gauge.
Thanks for the suggestion, Chris. I just sent them an e-mail and attached the pic
I'll let y'all know what they say
(I also blacked out the Speedhut made in USA lettering)
Well, I'm 10 days from a gage but I decided to keep moving. What started off as a quick modification to the fuel filter location led to, testing which meant adding gas which led to this. No fried wires, yet.
I give up, here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg9OiDWLab4&feature=youtu.be
Sounds great! Awesome!!!! FYI the magic smoke usually happens pretty quickly so you should be fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg9OiDWLab4
Ah there we go...a 9 kept sneaking on to the end of the embed code.
I claim first ride along! Sounds GREAT Kent!
congrats! what a great feeling when you hear it bark to life.
Cool! Sounds great! Any codes? Time to clear out the driveway and go for a ride.
Bad-ass man! That's fantastic news and a great video. Sounds awesome.
I should only be a few days behind you. (At least I hope I am!)
Thx guys, I'm still pinching myself to see if this is real. Many things known and unknown have yet to be addressed. Codes? Don't know yet. I haven't mounted that light yet. I still have to check out the cooling which could be a Royal PITA. But everything else seems small now. Just a matter of wringing it out. I will make this statement, however. When it fired up, both smoothly & immediately, I was reminded as to why I made the change. Improved engine management systems. Hopefully she gets to taste some asphalt next week.
Chit: I just noticed your "Welcome" banner Mike; totally cool!
Are you re-flashing the stock ECU with updated software? There are a lot of options for that.
Just a follow-up, Speedhut charged me $10 for the 'custom artwork' face
OUTRAGEOUS!!!!! I can get three cups of coffee downtown for that!
Yeah $10 is cheap man. I was just kidding about the price. Prying a brand new gauge apart would suck. Did they agree to take the Speedhut part off too?
Kent I think Doug is saying he would have the car shipped out on a car hauler. Certainly could get man-handled along the way if you chose the wrong company. I'd pay extra for the cushy, enclosed carrier with that car.
Last nite I was finishing up the wiring and tidying up in the cabin so I decided to give it the once over. Found some extraneous wiring and removed it along with some 12 ga speaker wire . But the jewel was this black ball of electrical tape. When I unraveled it I found my "missing" ground lug from the left front fender. It had been commissioned to jumper duty. There were 4 red + wires w/ female spades attached by some PO.
Chris, I received the "American Made" Tach Adp yesterday and promptly installed it this PM. Works great and I get to keep my OEM tach. As I should; I have a few laying around, now. It does make the movement very smooth as you mentioned. Just had to remove the jumper to power the old tach. Wouldn't spool up w/o it but they cover that in the instructions. Once the new Speedo arrives the panel gets closed up.
I seem to remember someone had cautioned me that these are prone to leaking. The washer is hard as a rock and is supposed to seal against the plastic. I tightened to what I felt was tight enough but it leaked. I'm glad that I used this bedliner material now!
So I pulled out the adhesives box and "Dirko'd" it's little ass in place. We'll see if it holds tonight.
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Wow! I should nominate myself for the Slacker's Thread. I found my thread on the bottom of page 3. I've been tying up loose ends here and there before I yank the drivetrain again. Now, I think I know of "everything" that needs attention once the engine is out. So that's pretty much my excuse for these past weeks.
Remember this Rat's Nest?
I ran out of electrical tape but I completed a big portion of the clean up. Next I will need to strap it all up.
I also was able to get both axles installed.
I received my new toy Thursday and promptly installed it. Found out the damned thing wouldn't work w/o electricity or the GPS antennae connected.
Now it's time to pull the engine and clean up that Rat's Nest in the engine compartment.
Hey Mark No matter what you order it will appear counterfeit at a glance.
Yesterday I bumped the starter while it was in gear. I almost shit myself but that is another story. Placed it in neutral, started it and it ran rough as Hell so I shut it off while I thought about it. I had just wrapped looming around most of the comp wiring and was afraid I had something up. Today I started it and revved it a bit and it smoothed mostly but still is a bit off and running very rich. I'll see what code is flagged or better yet which codes are not flagged. Any ideas??
After that experience I decided I had better use the neutral switch on the tranny. It and the reverse switch are dead. That's alright. It's time to pull the drivetrain so I'll get a closer look when it's out. It might be a result of removing the center differential. Forgot to add that I ran a dedicated 16ga wire from the bat to that lying assed Volt meter.
Thx, I'll check that. I need to learn about those and there is no time like the present. I haven't fabbed an air box yet and the TB is open to the trunk. There is 2 pole harness that attached to the old air box. Is this "most likely" a N/O ground switch that can be jumped. I don't have the OEM sender anymore. TIA.
Also are you running it with no exhaust still? Might (or might not) be something to do with that. I don't recall if those O2 sensors affect the way it runs or if it just pops the CEL.
Well I dropped the drivetrain in preparation for cleaning up the Hell Hole wiring and some hose replacement. I'm writing it up step by step so I will have a reference one day when I've forgotten damn near everything I've done. This adds to the time it takes but what is really slowing me down is my neighbors kid who's decided to take an interest in my cars transformation. Not that I believe it's unusual for a 14yo kid to show interest in old cars. That is unless that kid's name is Brigitte.
I place a lot of value on positive mentoring but with a girl? I'm walking on egg shells here. Some of it must be showing too because yesterday after a brief injury and a futile search for the proper response she told me it was alright if I cussed and that she hears it at home. If her interests hold true and this continues I shall have to have a little talk with her about "proper" attire when working on automobiles. I'm sure those of you in my age group can attest to the difficulties of staying "on track" and not getting distracted. More especially if your assistant seems to bend over at every opportunity revealing her tight fitting short shorts or the fruits of the low cut blouses she choose to wear. It's a good thing for both of us that this wasn't happening 20 yr's ago. In all seriousness, she comes from a large family of over achievers and I think she was "left behind" so to speak. So we will see how long her interest stay the course. I suspect at her age she shall soon find a young suitor and lose interest in old cars. Until then, we continue. Yesterday was an intro to VOM's and continuity testing.
I had a few hours yesterday so I began to tidy up this electrical Rat's Nest that had been staring at me for the past few weeks.
My helper went AWOL which sped the process up greatly. I ran out of electrical tape so pardon the exposed wires, sloppiness and floppiness. Another 2o min's and it should be wrapped up. NPI
Strapped up my cables
and strapped the steel fuel lines with Adell clamps. The $11 I spent on these lines saved me $65 on 30R9 hose which needs to be replaced in time also.
Nice clean-up on the wiring
More info on this please!
I'm looking for how in the world I'm going to work the burp tank and fill lines.
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OK...........I'll go take a few shots. I wasn't going to post it until I finalized the "plumbing" because the use of materials shall change drastically. BRB
I think you can see why I wasn't going to post this.
This is another shot of the drivers side. Note the antennae hole and that the pipe is beginning to go back downhill as it passes thru the fenderwell. This is the high spot on the L side. Also, this tee and angle stop will be replaced with a .75" Alum coupling tapped w/ a 1/4" ball valve w/ a screw driver slot rather than a handle. I put the drivers side vent here because I did not want ANY water leaking onto the fuse block below and inside.
The R side is different and should be able to vent out thru the fill cap but I may have to loosen the pipe clamp that holds the hose down in order to raise the pipe 2" or 3" when venting. On my EZ30, the outlet hoses have enough flex that I can lift them if necessary.(That is the Tee you referenced )There's a pic of that here a few pages back. I don't know how yours exits the engine so I can't help there.
The high spot on the R side is where the hose goes over bulkhead. That spot is about 2" higher than the fill cap.
One of the things on my punch list. My brakes lines are bled & fitted up but I'm missing something. I tried to explain this to Erc @ the G&R Event w/o results but then again a pic is worth a 1000 words. Hopefully this will be clear. During the conversion I replaced all the brake items. The PO had used some small SS flex lines which I replaced. They were of a different size and IIRC they had a small union which received the curved washer/clamp. With this set up the upper piece will flop in the hole because it isn't secured. What did I do wrong here? What do I need to order and where do I get them? It should secure like the other end in the last pic, right?
The last pic is how it ought to be! Coming along!
I think you have that hose in slightly wrong on the top connection my brother. Need to move it so you can clip that piece into the little ring like the lower one.
The hex bolt needs to be on the other side of the bracket like the lower one is. Make sense?
Well it will pull down enough that the nut is below the bracket but if I slip that clip over it it will just pull down further. In other words I could pull it down another 6" but it would bend the tube above it. Is it possible the hole in that bracket was drilled out by the PO and is too large. What is supposed to keep it from pulling thru? Heeeeeelp.
That doesn't look right.
I'd put a hose clamp in the bottom part and then use one of those C clips to keep it locked in place. Or, just the hose clamp.
I have SS lines without the flanges in front on mine and that's how I ended up having to do it too.
I think I'll ping Erc. It's all his stuff so I'm sure it is standard and correct.
Could you have the front and rear lines messed up?
Shit if I know but I don't think so. Everything up front fits fine. Right now I'm prepping for the embarrassment that will come once Erc or someone shines the "dumb ass light" on me. On a brighter note, I received my fuel hose from Chris today. I'm in SoCal & Chris is on the opposite corner of the good old USA. I ordered Monday nite and received the order this morning. That's fast!
You need the different style clamp for that hose. It is the U-shaped spring clamp that fits over the end of the hard-line not in the groove on the softline. I'm currently in Monterey at parade so I can't readily find a picture for you but there are pictures of that style of clamp here on the site. When I see you shaped it's confusing because you naturally think of the clip that you use it in the picture above. This one is a spring style clamp again, it mounts on the hard-line side and has two legs that press against that body tab.
Thx Erc, I'll get with you next week to clarify. I'll buy those pieces from you if you have them.
Found this at the local flaps Sat. One side is aboot (I'm practicing my Canadian) 1" longer than the other but it fits well. $9 but what the Hell.
Tell your new 'apprentice' that in the interest of safety she needs to wear garage 'appropriate' clothing. That would be a pair of coveralls.....
Damn, busier than a one armed cranberry merchant these past few weeks so little to show other than I re-visited the firewall area. I'm beginning think I'm obsessed with this area. The engine compartment had a lot of primer from earlier repairs but I didn't want to shoot paint at this stage so I used that spray dip. Many positives. It easily removes if I want to shoot paint later; no over spray and you can spray right to the edge; insulating qualities between metal and my electrical jungle; some sound deadening. I received the SS metric hardware so I when I re-installed the wiring on the firewall I used all SS. As you can see in one pic the screw heads are inside and set in a puddle of JB Weld. This gives me the clearance on the inside and "studs" in the engine compartment.
Bare with me. I've reached that point of going back to "complete" items that an organized individual would have already completed. Some of these shots you've seen before. To quote Oat Willie, "Onward thru the Fog!". A free bowl of Chile if you know who he was.
Put some SS hardware to good use here
Applied lables indicating all my ground points for the next poor schmuck.
Needed to modify my "K n N" filter to accept the air temp sensor.
When you've reached the torque value but need another little bit to align the cotter pin, this is it! Smooth as butter and requires no strength. It's also fast as Hell to remove them this way. If your close and need break yours loose, come on by. I've got pipe wrenches up to 60".
Meet the "new" Hell Hole. If your doing one of these hydraulic conversions you know what I'm talking about. It's a bitch fitting that clevis, spacer and cotter pin. And if you've done it more than once you feel my pain. I'm good with the outcome, though. The large fender washer between the floorboard and return spring, compresses the rubber washer against the floorboard for an air tight seal. Didn't plan that, just fell in my lap. The bolt access hole above it still needs a snap in cover.
I hope that I didn't jump the gun and throw this Dynamat in too early. I'm going to try it w/o any on the firewall, first. If it's noisy I'll add some but I don't have an air cooled engine w/ carbs so I should be alright.
Short of paint and removing the white plastic cups for a "return air", the rear trunk is a "wrap". The one harness laying in the right rear corner is for the 3rd or rear 02 sensor. This may get 86'd. From what I'm reading this does not effect the tune and is basically there as "reporting device" used when it is smogged; which it won't be! Also, I 86'd the 2 covers I made for the starter and clutch slave and replaced them with one large black metal box which I made . As it turned out the clearances weren't large enough (in my mind) with the 2 individual covers. This will give me a service access for future repairs, too! As it sits, the roof will still fit in the trunk!
Next up.......... a foolish attempt to design and construct an exhaust system. It will be aluminized steel rather than SS. Many reasons for now and I may go SS later when I learn to weld SS.
My Lord do I envy the cleanliness of your harnesses! Mine is still hanging together by alligator clips!
Looking good Kent! I was just about to ask you how the hell to use that spring you sent me... Great idea! I'll put that in today. I was getting a little "snapping" sound from the grommet moving in and out of the hole but that washer will stop that from happening. Can't wait to take the thing apart again . The front of the center tunnel is sharp ain't it? And you can't use gloves or you'll keep dropping the clevis pin right? Oh well, it'll be great when it's all done.
HUGE updates coming on my end...although my wiring looks a lot more like Ross's than yours. I'll try to update it by tomorrow.
Kent,
You clean up well.
Love the use of the rubber boots at the fire wall.
Where are you with your axles?
I have my axles and get ready to send them out to http://www.dutchmanaxles.com/services
I will send them a CV ID spline for final fitment and have Sawtooth's drawing for referance. I think it was Sawtooth that used 18"overall, so I added that to my printout of his drawing.
I recall you had a problem with length. Did you go with 18" and one was too long, one too short?
After axles, that's it, trany swap weekend.
Edit: I checked the axles that I have and I will have a hard time cutting 16 3/8" down to 18" long
Edit #2 The best I can tell this 30 spline count can most likely be found on the 02-early 04 WRX (STI only).
They may be on some older (hard to find) heavy load applications like an 04 legacy TT. They also seemed to be far more common on JDM models.
Edit #3 After getting my axles back from resplining and removing 30 mm. I found, I was sold something other than 914 axles. 16 3/8 should have been a clue. I was thinking 18" was a typo.
I sent the axles that came out of the car to Dutchman. Removing 30 mm looked good to me. That came out to about 19 1/8".
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Damn Mike, I missed this entirely. Now I understand your text msg. Sorry man, but you have the info, now. My axles are on and fit. The difference is in the CV's. Two different brands and while yes, the final E-E measurements are the same the cupped end that goes adjacent to the tranny hub varies. So, I connect the R side 1st then the L side. They should have everything on file @ Dutchman. Look back in this thread and you will see where I marked the take off on a piece of blue tape on the axle. You can remove another mm to be safe. Talk to Travis @ Dutchman
My exhaust system is ordered and parts should arrive this week. 4 different warehouses are shipping to me so it may take a few days. In the meantime I decided to install the inserts for the heated seats. I made an offer to an ebay vendor a few weeks back and received a 20% discount. That was even better so I ordered a set for $40 shipped. I won't go thru a step by step of seat covering removal as it is already documented in the Classic thread forum. I will say it is easy and takes about 3 hr's. When complete, each seat has 2 connectors beneath which connect to a harness. That harness has a relay, fuse and Hi/Lo switch. I'll complete the install when the console is back in place.
I drew a quick reference line around the materials border before pulling the staples.
Remove the cover slowly so you don't tear the foam
Lay the mat in place and tape it with supplied tape then stick the plug end out the back.
The back piece is identicle to the seat except that it has two adhesives strips to help hold it in place.
Hopefully the exhaust will be finished in 2 weeks. I took the car off "NonOp" status 2 weeks ago so I'll be able to test drive it when that day comes.
Moving right along, I think the brake question is answered so I can quit worrying over that . After pm's with Eric I have old style hoses on my '73. Added to the punch list. Remember my fiasco with the gages? They have found a home. Ross (Rnellums) has a circuit board so I sent them to him. Or so I thought. Tonite I found the Speedometer in my 914 cabinet. I have no idea what I sent him. Ross, if you read this I sent you a pm. On a brighter note, parts are arriving.
The 7' section of tube arrived this afternoon and the above parts arrived yesterday. I'm still awaiting the 2.5" 90's. The order is being shipped from 4 warehouse locations, GA, OH, NV and I forget the 4th one. When the remainder arrive I'll post up the pic's of my exhaust system. And try to show you how this round 2.5" pipe
Gets shaped to fit the oval Suby header flange.
I have a feeling that this is going to be way more official than my jury roped setup! Keep it up!
How is the exhaust coming?
Yours is inventive and might be the way to go. Who knows what will work
I started to layout the exhaust system and immediately found the mufflers were too long. In fact I needed to rethink the situation in order to fit any mufflers in there. I found some 14" long mufflers that I'll use but for now I did what I could.
The EZ30D has an oval exhaust outlet on the header and then transitions to round. Bob (bigkat83) had told me how this is done so this is it. I used a 2.5" 90 for this transition piece. Because of my limited space front to rear I needed to have that 90 turn at a 45 degree angle, outwards from the engine rather than straight back. So I drew this circle with marks every 45 degrees then placed the vertical part over it and traced those marks onto the tube.
Then placed that piece in the vise and began compressing it slowly. Using those marks you can index the 90 on a 45 degree angle before squeezing. Every so often I hit the ends with the ball end of the hammer to help elongate the tube and rounding the end.
After a few minutes it looked like this
Then I beveled and polished the bottom edge of the flange
Then tap the flange over the tube slowly working it down with the hammer.
Until it looked like this
Without the flange
A test fit up
Horizontal piece of 2.5" 90 is cut to length and reduced to 2" w/ a 45 degree turn
Beginning to line up
Some different views. Oddly enough I should not need any tube. Just these fittings and a muffler. I tacked up the first few pieces but left the last 2 45 degree bends until the muffler is fitted. I think I should gas weld it so the welds aren't as brittle. FWIW, it's 16ga Aluminized Steel, not SS. And the tube at the end will be replaced with a muffler. The section of tube is handy for lining up your fittings, though.
Why reduce the exhaust? The turbo will be happier with a bigger exhaust.
I'm crazy and ran a full 4" exhaust...
That looks awesome. and it looks like you will have plenty of ground clearance!
I received the missing reducer and 02 bungs so I was able to finish the exhaust system today. I welded in the bungs, screwed in the 02 sensors and began assm.
My mufflers and hangers
And with the bumper installed. I'll add some tips later but this is it for the exhaust now.
Nice work! Howzzit sound with the shorty glasspacks on there?
Those pipes look amazing! How did you get them placed so well?
We need audio
Looks great! Nice work! I bet you're tired of welding now, but at least it's done. Let's hear it!
I'll post an audio later this week when I start it. My 63 YO was too tired to put gas in it when I finished yesterday. The combination of heat and humidity put me in my place. My punch list is down to 24 items. Mostly, small items conjured up to satisfy my OCD. I'm sure that count will change after I drive it.
To answer your question Ross; time and luck. I spent several hours with this because "it shows". Once I was satisfied with the left bank I duplicated the measurements for the right bank.
It's amazing to me that the 3 of us (Ross, Chris and yours truely) started about the same time and finish about the same time. I would say the 4 of us but one of us took the "Divorce Detour". The 3 Subateer's.
And here is what it sounds like. My comp skills are lacking so I'll just post the links. A real throttle cable should arrive next week then it's drive time and start shaking out the bugs. I'm not finished but getting closer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y34k42Ck_20&feature=youtu.be
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zruK06mQbIA&feature=youtu.be
Sounds great! Are the fans in front really that ratty sounding or is it just the audio quality? Sounds like they're on their last legs!
Well, one week short of 19 months and it finally hit the road again. It was just a quick trip with a jury rigged accelerator cable. Funny thing, I started it and the sky literally opened up. No complaints, we're in a drought! So 1 hour later I took it around the hood for a quickie! I'm not getting much pedal travel so I don't know what WFO feels like but sweeeeeeeeeeeet sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet, I've got a six . I know what Ross meant by 1st gear happens quick. I need to be pay attention to power management in the coming weeks and not let this thing get too far ahead of me. Not used to the power yet but I'm pretty sure I'll be addicted in another day or two. The P/W ratio is so absurd you can take off in 2nd or 3rd. I was going up a hill in the hood 20mpn in 4th; no problem. GPS speedo is kick ass. Next several weeks will be chasing gremlins and de-bugging but as it is, I'm happier than a 2 petered Billy Goat.
That's amazing. So you filled the radiator? How are the temps? I spent all day in the garage...still there in fact. Wiring.
Congrats on finishing the conversion. Can't wait to see it.
It sounds great.
Awesome news man!I'm still looking at gauges in the passenger foot well
WOW!!! beautiful exhaust note. i looking forward to the 'on the roll' video @ 6k. your neighbors will be giving you the squinty eyed look real soon. great work!!!! the 1.7 badging is perfect. as you leave the young guys that want to challenge you in the dust they'll be all . ha. again , GREAT WORK!!!
Kent.... here is how I did my mufflers. At cruise this is as quiet as my wifes Camry.
When I'm at a stoplight I have to look at the tach to make sure its still running.
From the rear
Under
I'm super excited for you. Very glad one of "us" is on the road.
I hope to be the next, but I'm OK to be the last as well. ;-)
If you received a Master Cylinder plate from me I have important update information. First, the 3/4" Wilwood will work but it is very hard to push. Also, Chris and I had "sealing" problems with their reservoirs. I had to pull my tank to clean beneath it after mine leaked. Anyway at Chris' suggestion, and I'm pretty sure he stole it from BIGCAT83 , we tried a 5/8" Honda MC. It requires some quick modifications to the plate which I'll post here with detailed instructions, in the next week. If any of you feel uncomfortable with DIY then send it to me and I'll do it for you.
Another very positive experience with one of our vendors, Terry Cable. The first accelerator cable sent was bass akwards of what I ordered. When I called they said no problem and 4 days later, here it is. They are a very personable, customer oriented business. It arrived today and I put that puppy on tonite so that I could try the new clutch setup. That and to finally "put my foot into it"! The clutch motion requires no effort and is smoother than greased owl shit. It shifted so nicely I took it for a quick spin on a country road behind us. I now have 6 whole miles on it; 4 tonite. A big positive is that I'm not experiencing any cooling problems at all , yet . I need to install a burp tank as I lose about 4oz's after it shuts down but I just top off before starting it. That short run tonite made every hour of the project worth it. Even the wiring. Damn that is some fun. You want to kinda aim that thing before you goose it. I'm not complete by any means but I think I'm out of the forest. Time to install the interior and buy those OEM side mirrors that I'd promised myself if it ran. I wonder if RRC would be pushing it.
Great update! You really worked hard on that clutch thing. Definitely stole the idea...many people (including BIGKAT/Bob) mentioned the Honda MC, some even IN MY BUILD THREAD. Don't know why I didn't read it more closely. BTW it's worth mentioning that the OEM for Honda is Nissin. That's the best one, but there are also many aftermarket ones that are half that price. The one I read NOT to buy on a couple of Civic sites is the Omni brand. Shorter throw, harder to push, leaks after a few years.
Congrats Kent!
Nothing better than turning the key after a long build, car sounds awesome, it's got to be a blast finally driving it.
You guys have done so much fabrication to simplify the suby conversion future projects will get easier as time goes, still considering it for the black car.....but lately I keep thinking LS1, we'll see. Nice work, bring it to RRC...love to see it.
Great job,
Jeff
Again....Congrats man. I'm super happy for you.
I think I'm going to need to bring in reinforcements to get me across the finish line with mine. I've come too far, and I'm sick of looking at a 3/4 done project.
[quote name='76-914' date='Aug 14 2014, 08:14 PM' post='2074062']
If you received a Master Cylinder plate from me I have important update information. First, the 3/4" Wilwood will work but it is very hard to push. Also, Chris and I had "sealing" problems with their reservoirs. I had to pull my tank to clean beneath it after mine leaked. Anyway at Chris' suggestion, and I'm pretty sure he stole it from BIGCAT83 , we tried a 5/8" Honda MC. It requires some quick modifications to the plate which I'll post here with detailed instructions.
Is this reservoir leaking an isolated case, or are there others that are experiencing the same problem, along with hard pushing of it?
[quote name='partwerks' date='Aug 15 2014, 08:25 PM' post='2074380']
[quote name='76-914' date='Aug 14 2014, 08:14 PM' post='2074062']
If you received a Master Cylinder plate from me I have important update information. First, the 3/4" Wilwood will work but it is very hard to push. Also, Chris and I had "sealing" problems with their reservoirs. I had to pull my tank to clean beneath it after mine leaked. Anyway at Chris' suggestion, and I'm pretty sure he stole it from BIGCAT83 , we tried a 5/8" Honda MC. It requires some quick modifications to the plate which I'll post here with detailed instructions.
Is this reservoir leaking an isolated case, or are there others that are experiencing the same problem, along with hard pushing of it?
[/quote]
Yep, I'm sure others will chime in at some point. After I thought about it I realized it's just common sense. If both ends are = in diameter then it is the same thing as you sitting behind the trans pushing the clutch fork in with your leg. No mechanical advantage. Remember the old 3 sp English bikes that came with a tire pump clipped to the cross bar and how skinny it was. Those tires took a lot of pressure and the fat pumps we used for our Western Flyers wouldn't do it. Chris said the Honda MC on ebay was only $29 used. I have one and it works great. Another plus is you won't have to cut the belly pan to accept it like the Wilwood required. I'll doc it all here is a few days. I'm waiting on some more parts to do Chris' so I'll shoot pic's then.
[quote name='76-914' date='Aug 15 2014, 08:31 PM' post='2074391']
[quote name='partwerks' date='Aug 15 2014, 08:25 PM' post='2074380']
[quote name='76-914' date='Aug 14 2014, 08:14 PM' post='2074062']
If you received a Master Cylinder plate from me I have important update information. First, the 3/4" Wilwood will work but it is very hard to push. Also, Chris and I had "sealing" problems with their reservoirs. I had to pull my tank to clean beneath it after mine leaked. Anyway at Chris' suggestion, and I'm pretty sure he stole it from BIGCAT83 , we tried a 5/8" Honda MC. It requires some quick modifications to the plate which I'll post here with detailed instructions.
Is this reservoir leaking an isolated case, or are there others that are experiencing the same problem, along with hard pushing of it?
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Yep, I'm sure others will chime in at some point. After I thought about it I realized it's just common sense. If both ends are = in diameter then it is the same thing as you sitting behind the trans pushing the clutch fork in with your leg. No mechanical advantage. Remember the old 3 sp English bikes that came with a tire pump clipped to the cross bar and how skinny it was. Those tires took a lot of pressure and the fat pumps we used for our Western Flyers wouldn't do it. Chris said the Honda MC on ebay was only $29 used. I have one and it works great. Another plus is you won't have to cut the belly pan to accept it like the Wilwood required. I'll doc it all here is a few days. I'm waiting on some more parts to do Chris' so I'll shoot pic's then.
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Do you have a link handy with the picture of the MC you are referring to?
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Do you have a link handy with the picture of the MC you are referring to?
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I had posted it on page 11 of this thread.
[quote name='BIGKAT_83' date='Aug 16 2014, 01:14 AM' post='2074414']
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Do you have a link handy with the picture of the MC you are referring to?
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I had posted it on page 11 of this thread.
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Hard to see in the pic, being painted black, but is this even remotely close?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Brake-Master-Cylinder-Coupe-Sedan-Acura-Integra-89-88-87-86-Accord-Car-Auto-/350741343828?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AHonda&hash=item51a9d02e54&vxp=mtr
What year of Honda?
No, not even close.....Thats a brake master cylinder for power brakes.
The clutch master cylinder I posted is the aluminum one on the left.
There is a shop in Kansas City doing a LS2/Boxster transaxle conversion now. This guy does first class work. I would suggest that you take your car to him.
If your interested I can PM you his contact info.
I'm in manufacturing. You'll have to check with Chris in supply. I honestly don't know but we'll get that info to you soon. Here is a shot of one installed but I'm getting ahead of myself.
[quote name='76-914' date='Aug 15 2014, 09:31 PM' post='2074391']
[quote name='partwerks' date='Aug 15 2014, 08:25 PM' post='2074380']
[quote name='76-914' date='Aug 14 2014, 08:14 PM' post='2074062']
If you received a Master Cylinder plate from me I have important update information. First, the 3/4" Wilwood will work but it is very hard to push. Also, Chris and I had "sealing" problems with their reservoirs. I had to pull my tank to clean beneath it after mine leaked. Anyway at Chris' suggestion, and I'm pretty sure he stole it from BIGCAT83 , we tried a 5/8" Honda MC. It requires some quick modifications to the plate which I'll post here with detailed instructions.
Is this reservoir leaking an isolated case, or are there others that are experiencing the same problem, along with hard pushing of it?
[/quote]
Yep, I'm sure others will chime in at some point. After I thought about it I realized it's just common sense. If both ends are = in diameter then it is the same thing as you sitting behind the trans pushing the clutch fork in with your leg. No mechanical advantage. Remember the old 3 sp English bikes that came with a tire pump clipped to the cross bar and how skinny it was. Those tires took a lot of pressure and the fat pumps we used for our Western Flyers wouldn't do it. Chris said the Honda MC on ebay was only $29 used. I have one and it works great. Another plus is you won't have to cut the belly pan to accept it like the Wilwood required. I'll doc it all here is a few days. I'm waiting on some more parts to do Chris' so I'll shoot pic's then.
[/quote]
If the Honda MC is 5/8, I get the feeling, I will not be happy with the .700 bore Tilton that I have. Like everything else, I started liking the Honda MC more and more after I payed good money for the Tiltion.
Planning on having my Nieces's hubby do the work, since he was the top tech at the chevy garage, till Delmar was too cheap to give him a raise, and opened up his own shop then. Reasonable labor, and some freebies......
I was just trying to do some of the leg work for him, and make some of the stuff that I can. Almost done with the water logs. Can do this MC bracket, but not sure on the motor mount, w/o any measurements. Can't tell just by looking at a picture.
It looks like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/96-00-HONDA-CIVIC-DEL-SOL-JDM-NISSIN-JAPAN-CLUTCH-MASTER-CYLINDER-46920-SR3-A01-/260992548728?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc45e3f78&vxp=mtr
1993ish to 2000 Civic. The OEM is Nissin/Adler (NOT Nissan!), but you can get a bunch of aftermarket ones for ~$25 or so, or a used one for about $25. Just avoid the Omni aftermarket brand.
There are a few other bits you need. I'll post the full list once I get mine installed.
At Rockauto, I can get a Dorman, MC, and Slave for about $29.00. I noticed the Master is 5/8" bore, and the slave is 3/4" bore. Is that typically how it should be?
How do I know if this slave will bolt up to a Boxster trans, or are they all pretty much the same?
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=969127&cc=3299353
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=966261&cc=3299353
I'm running a 5/8" master on my Boxster tranny. The slave for the Boxster and the VW Passat (1997-2001) is the same. The Passat unit is a fraction of the price. The Passat unit will fit both Boxster/Cayman 5 & 6 speed trannies up to 2008 for sure. Not sure about newer.
Oh crud that's right Mike, how could I forget you have a Boxster trans? So Mike is running a 5/8 master, same as the Honda, and a stock VW/Audi/Porsche slave.
Mike Birdwell - The Subie clutch master is 5/8 in the cases that I saw in my limited research of 200-2006 transmissions. For a while we were getting direction that the master and slave cylinders had to match but they do not for Subaru. The 11/16 was probably out there because Kent's and my slave cylinders are 11/16. Turns out that has no bearing. Seems like 5/8 is the ticket to smooth, easy to push as long as you have the "throw"to fully engage the clutch.
[/quote]
Longer bolts to go through the plate that positions the two cylinders together?
There are two bolts that are spot welded to the pedal assm that the brake MC bolts to. R&R those two w/ bolts 8-10mm longer. Hint: Use an old MC to reposition the new bolts.
Kent, If I can get my axles / CVs worked out and tranies swapped we could hook up and do some suby swapping.
[/quote]
I was hoping we could at least get our own National Holiday after that ordeal.
Will the clutch slave cylinder (Dorman) from Rockauto work, or is the bolt pattern the wrong way to work on the Boxster trans? Ooops, probably not.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=966261&cc=3299353
I guess the plan is to get a Honda Civic CMC, and VW CSC, since the VW CSC is alreay being used, it should have enough throw?
To make the large hole for the new resident, the CMC, are they using a hole saw from the cab side or underneath the car to cut it out?
Once I get the correct measurements for the plate, then I can go forward on that part.
If a person gets the Honda CMC, where do they acquire the reservoir from, or can that be gotten at a local auto parts store?
The "throw" is related to the MC. The smaller the MC the longer the throw to move the same volume of fluid, so the issue is whether or not the 914 stock clutch pedal has enough travel to push the 5/8 master far enough to fully engage the clutch. Sounds like others who know more than me about your setup are using 5/8 MC so theoretically you should be good.
You really have to use a VW/Audi/Porsche (same part it sounds like) on your trans. Using aftermarket or adapting one would be a huge pain.
You can use an aftermarket reservoir. I will get the stock hose dimension today. I bought a used Honda one on e-bay. $18.
Hi Kent I got all my coolant stuff corrected per Bob's instructions. Turning the key soon! No worries, still have brakes, shifter, etc to do.
Given those years, a bit of overlap, it is the 2nd, or most expensive style one that I need for the trans, correct?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Clutch-Slave-Cylinder-VW-Volkswagen-Golf-Jetta-Passat-99-98-97-96-95-94-1999-/370617339583?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AVolkswagen|Model%3APassat&hash=item564a83cebf&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Clutch-Slave-Cylinder-Audi-A4-2004-2003-2002-2001-2000-99-98-97-Quattro-1999-/230953987896?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AVolkswagen|Model%3APassat&hash=item35c5ee2f38&vxp=mtr
This one?
I threw in the rear carpet and liner after trimming to fit around some items. It will look much better with new carpet but that will come later. I will need all new rubber seals, carpet, paint, tires n wheels to get up to speed but this is good for now.
The best part was this; the top fits in it's OG location.
Might as well start posting some pic's on modifying the plate. Keep the bolts/nuts you used to mount the Wilwood MC to the plate. They are the same length/diameter. I cut 2 small tabs and beveled the edges before welding. You will need to grind it flat afterwards so the bevel is structural. Clamps them in place then move around with your spot welds, remove the clamps and weld. Then grind it smooth as shown.
**** More when the MC arrives.......
This is a good time to point out what I believe is a poor design with the Wilwood reservoir. The inner piece which holds the "single o-ring" isn't strong enough to withstand the forces placed upon it by the clamp. As it gives the piece takes on a tapered shape pushing the reservoir up and away from the base. Notice the 6mm gap? As it pushes up, the o-ring ends up below the hose clamp as you can see in the 2nd pic below.
Attached image(s)
I think I recognize that plate! Dang that looks nice.
Yeah totally agree on the reservoir o-ring. It's the same on the MC itself. And if you use a pressure bleeder you won't like what happens AT ALL.
Trunk is looking good Kent! I think I will use your half-canister to cover my starter and clutch MC holes in the trunk. Bunch of seal sealer and paint and it'll be barely noticeable.
This is a good time to point out what I believe is a poor design with the Wilwood reservoir. The inner piece which holds the "single o-ring" isn't strong enough to withstand the forces placed upon it by the clamp. As it gives the piece takes on a tapered shape pushing the reservoir up and away from the base. Notice the 6mm gap? As it pushes up, the o-ring ends up below the hose clamp as you can see in the 2nd pic below.
I don't know if it would be a good idea or not, but could a person use some of that purple gunk that plumbers put on pvc to glue it together, to seal it??
I've worked with six of the Wilwood reservoirs and have had no problems at all. You may be a little too tight with the clamp.
My reservoir leaked ALL the fluid out before I caught it. I was very relieved when I discovered it was just the clamp. I haven't filled it back up yet because I didn't think of a good fix.
I certainly might have under-tightened mine and then overtightened it. Still don't like that kind but I get why they make it that way.
It's a little more complicated than that. Makes it a lot easier if you just have the dimensions of the bracket.
Hey Kent, check today's stack of mail...or your front door/bushes/etc. Tracking says it was delivered today USPS.
I got Chris' new MC today so I'll pick up where I left off. Mine had screw in studs but this one has pressed in studs. Otherwise no difference. This is what I used; a MC, the modified plate, a clevis, an 8x1.25x16mm coupling nut (aka rod socket in SAE).
A pic of the MC with press in studs in place
There is a step on the backside that makes for an uneven surface to press against. You can see step where the washer is held.
When viewed from the end, the step is a semi circle so I cut this 5/16" washer in half
Set it beneath the impact socket that the stud will pass thru
Place the MC on the plate and match drill 5/16" / 8mm holes.
While you still have the bit chucked up drill the threads out of the clevis. It will guide itself but keep a good gripe on it with pliers or vice grips.
Make sure the clevis will slide freely down the threaded shaft.
Bevel the ends of the clevis and nut
Take one of the studs you just pressed out, thread it thru the nut and let it pass into the clevis so as to align the 2 pieces then clamp in place and weld. Get the stud out after the first tack so you don't weld it in place. That would suck. Grind off excess neatly so the clip will slide back over the clevis.
Should end up like this
I think this is the measurement that you needed.
Great work Kent! Thanks for fixing that up for me!
Closer to 3 3/8". Just center the hole with the clutch pedal arm. I ordered a new MC and found I didn't need one. Well I have a spare now and don't need to bleed it down again.
This is a very interesting mod. That looks like it'd be a LOT easier to attach to the resivoir. It'd be great to get an updated pattern for that plate after you're done.
I'm sure someone makes a clevis joint that'll work without welding. Right?
Oh man I hope this works out. Just talking to Bob on the phone for 15 minutes keeps me going for a month! BTW the car he is working on with d914 has the same engine...that thing sounds like it's gonna quite a handful (in a good way).
Did you use a hole saw for the hole in the firewall?
A hole punch? That would take FOREVER . I know, I know....not a paper hole punch.
So I think I owe the group some measurements, part numbers, etc.
First, if you're gonna do the Honda MC you have to COMMIT. The MC housing is longer at the front so you have to cut a hole so the whole housing (not just the pin) comes through the floor. Not a huge deal unless you might change to another type of MC at some point...hole might be a little big in that case and you'd have to plug it.
It wasn't that hard to cut the hole since I already had a smaller one.
So the stock OEM Honda master is made by Nissin. You want the years 1992ish to 2000. Anything newer is obviously different because it has a weird triangular piece at the end of it. You DON'T want that kind. Sometimes marketed as "Adler", they are about $45-$55 shipped new, or $25-$30 used. There are a TON of aftermarket ones as well. The only aftermarket MC I've heard negative things about has been Omni.
The stock reservoir to MC hose is an 8mm hose (this is the actual one from Kent's, which is only 6 inches long because his is out of a Del Sol). You can probably use 914 fuel hose or brake hose if you have some.
You can either get a used Honda MC reservoir or buy a generic one. I got mine for $18 on e-bay. If you go generic just make sure the outlet is at least 7mm but not too large for the 8mm hose to stretch onto.
For the hydraulic line connection you need a very specific 10x1 fitting. One end is tapered, the other is not. Here's the one Kent and I bought:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360524159370?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
The longest clevis I've found is 48mm. Here it is:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#2448k48/=tgdzmb
Still not long enough, Kent added a piece to it to extend it as described previously. He can tell you what he used, but it's probably an 8mm nut of some kind. Bob also mentioned changing the rod end to a longer one, which is a great idea as well.
Beyond that you need what you need for any hydraulic conversion. We bought 15 feet of Aeroquip -3an hose, a 10x1 Banjo fitting at the slave cylinder end, and this fitting on the other end:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FBM1120
Kent, did I miss anything?
Excellent. Thanks for adding that, Chris. You didn't miss a thing. Wish I could say that. That was an experience, huh? It was worth it though. God I love that smooooooooooth hydraulic clutch. And unlike cables they give a little notice when failing.
The Heim joint shown will be replaced with a clevis fitting. Otherwise it is offset too much for my taste.
If that dog leg is eliminated, then how is that other system hooked up then to the CMC?
Could a person remove the dog leg part, and make one that is a straight piece instead of the offset?
Would the timing of it need to be the same position as the dog leg one?
I've got around 250 miles on Kugel now and thought I'd share some of my teething problems up to this point. Somewhere around test drive #5, I had settled down enough to realize that it was hot in the cabin. Not only that but my gas tank had become a heat sink as well. The first thing was to seal the gap where the "old heat tube" passed thru the bulkhead. This required a couple of crescent shaped pieces of foam.
Test drive #6 revealed no noticeable improvement. I forgot to seal off the air box so I made a couple of foam plugs.
Test drive #7 showed a big improvement but found the "full" gas tank was still hot to the touch after a run. I had one of Mark's cowl seals on my shopping list because mine was toast but I thought I would try something different instead. After all, should I expect a new seal to perform way outside the envelope for which it was developed. The OG seal had 5ea / 45mm for an area of 1590mm)openings (if any) opening into the front trunk. And I had added 4 38mm holes or 1134sq mm. So this was my solution. I took apiece of 1/2" walled pipe insulation and placed it over the existing old damaged seal. As you can see in the pic's it comes with a slit in it so it slides right over the old one. The first nite it was a tight fit and raised the hood very slightly. By the 3rd day the insulation had compressed into place and the hood now sits as it should. Noticed the compressed area on the insulation?
This was the final fix and I'm happy with how cool the cabin is since these changes. But I still had a nagging overheating problem. I had been warned not to run thru the longs by a few members so I'm hoping it isn't the additional length of hose that is the problem. I choose a 14 mile round trip to begin testing. OAT range from 88F to 95F. 7F is a small difference. The next 3 test runs consisted of attaching a small lip to the bottom of the fender opening to act as a scoop; enlarging the opening in the fiberglass fairing 1/2" across the bottom; removing one access plug in the floor and running with the front hood partially open or cracked. None of these attempts helped. I was able to find the temps would always begin their ascent at 9 miles nom. With the IR I found I had a 5F drop across the radiator. Hold'er Newt. That ain't right. With fans on high, low or off didn't matter. Unless the cover for the radiator was removed. And then the fans cooled it quickly. So now I can assume the radiator is sized correctly, thermostat good, hose runs good, fans good, etc. How could this be. I assumed because others had success with the OEM oil cooler openings (along with 4 more punched out) that this should work for me as well. But I was comparing apples to oranges. My radiator, fans, and venting were different as well. I didn't think it would make any difference but I decided to cut out the area that had the punched holes before I called Bob to explain what a dumb ass I am. The overall cut out was only 3.25" x 18" or the same as the area cut out on the bumper and fairing. Here is a pic of the removed piece.
Not much larger but after "now" Test drive #15 I had my first result. I completed the test run and temps were in the middle. Checked a few items and went back out. After 6 miles the temps began to rise but leveled off towards the high end of the scale. It was 82F that run. The coolest so far but still not much difference in ambient temps. Then I spotted it. What an idiot! All I can say is that I missed this one and have no excuses.
I had not considered the gap between the fender/fairing and the body. The gap along the bottom is appx 1/2", you can see the pie shaped openings on the sides and the one along the top edge was 1.5"-2". After a quick duct taping we went on
Test drive #16. Holy , that was it. Duh! That incoming compressed air had been shooting thru the gaps. The gaps were probably low pressure areas and diverted most of that incoming air right out the fender. I have been running w/o fans for 2 days without any temps above the 1/2 way mark. Tonite I removed the tape and filled the gaps with foam. The gap was so large along the top that I stuffed an untrimmed piece of pipe insulation in there to seal it. I have a few cosmetic items and other things to do but other than that, I think this might be the final chapter. I hope some of this build thread will help others with there conversion somewhere.
Attached image(s)
I think this will be a nice functional addition to my cooling system. Chris told me (Bob told Chris and so it goes)about these 914-6 louvered floor pans. My floor pan was beat to shit so I welcomed this opportunity to have a nice flat surface and increase my venting with the addition of the louvers. The panel is $68 from Patrick Motorsports. Needs paint and the bottom side needs a trim in 2 spots and then welded. That's just cosmetic but I need to jack it up pretty high so I'm in no hurry.
I dig the louvers. Nice touch & glad to hear you figured the cooling. Always seem to be some trial & error. Glad you were able to make it work in the longs. While it definitely would not have worked with my v8. I don't doubt I could cool my 2.5 suby conversion hearing yours is working. Mine doesn't get hot with the smallest of openings for inlets. Hope to see yours soon bud. Nice work
That is exactly what Scotty and I were discussing as one of the options for my trunk if we were to add a front oil cooler.
Nice work Kent! You already said it but yes, 100% Bob's idea. I haven't done mine yet because I'm routing all my air out the bottom so I need more louvers punched. Finally found a place around here who can do it about 90 miles away, just have to get there. Just gonna get another row of 4 X 4.
Check out Hammond Mfg. PN PVLL19012BK2
Louvered instrument rack panel - packed with louvers, about $40. If the size works this might be a less expensive alternative that a custom louvered panel.
Just be sure it's .050 / 18ga.
It cleaned up nicely.
Bandjoey had mentioned Duplicolor's carpet paint so I tried some. I'll need another can to complete the job. I did the rear trunk and floor pieces with one can.
Side by Side difference
Before the one on the right was sprayed.
Not really my idea on the louvers. It was d914's but he put them on the hood.Wished I had a picture of D914 car with the hood louvers but I'm out of the country now and not at home.
I have planned to use them in the floor if needed on my LS3 car.
Bob
I did, and I have a reverse view, very open, and should cause a draw of air flow out
Great thread for the Subie guys! I’ve been following Kent’s build for several months now and your louvered front trunk floor has raised some questions for me and my Subaru conversion. First I’m not even close to buying my motor and tranny for my car at this point; I want to sort out the suspension and other components before I dive into the actual conversion. My question is my 914 had A/C and I wanted to use the opening in the floor to allow the air to flow out through that opening. I was thinking to screen it and then shroud the radiator so the air flowed down and out the opening. My concern is that I’d be putting too much air under the car and affecting the down force. I plan on using this car as driver with an occasional autocross if I feel the need. Sounds like most of you have been around the block with these conversions and wanted your opinions.
Sorry Kent I’m not trying to hijack your tread, I just know a lot of Subie guys are reading it.
Thanks,
Brent
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Talk with Ross (Rnellums here), he did exactly that and I think it is working great for him. There have been discussions re: this style install and it's effect upon high speed handling but I believe most of this information is either hear say or conjecture as there aren't enough similar conversions that use this method to draw any concrete conclusions. Personally, I cannot speak to this as my top speed (on 10 yr old tires) has only been 105mph, thus far. Once it has new tires I should be able to comment with some reservations. FWIW, I believe one could retain 60% of their front trunk space by using this fan install method coupled with some 5" sub-floor design that would also serve as the ducting to floor vented fan. Did you start a thread for us to follow, yet?
Kent,
Did you remove the clutch return spring from the peddle assembly?
I am pre-installing everything now, it seems like the clutch peddle would need a very light spring the other way, if anything?
Removed. Not necessary! Overkill run a muck.
You can either add a spacer or just unclip it like I did (after pounding the sh*(t out of my roll pin). I'm just going to cut the hooks off when I take mine apart again to paint it.
I Haven't noticed the front end getting light from venting through the floor, but I'll let you know after my track day this weekend (i should be hitting 115 mph easily). I have noticed that I seem to run out of gear though with stock profile tires. At 105-110 I seem to be getting pretty close to the redline in 5th. I've got my prototype front ducting setup now and essentially have a full front trunk worth of space (spare in trunk).
I noticed my Subie is out of revs around 118 or so- sounds like you have the same trans as mine. And yes, pictures please! Seeing your setup gave me lots of ideas and now you've run out of room?!
I'm surprised you're all done so soon. I've been told my car goes... um... quite a lot faster than that, and I know was still pulling very hard at 109 in the quarter.
THe stock EZ30D is at 6500 RMP. It is still pulling hard headed towards redline. The transmission is out of a 2001 2.5 RS (final drive is 4.11) which I believe has the tallest gears. I could always go to a larger profile tire. I'll update some pics of my front trunk in my thread tonight.
I'm glad this came up. I will need some new tires to replace these 10 yr old's. I'd like taller tires to improve the usefulness of 1st gear. What tall tires sound good. I'm running 4 bolt wheels so I might be limited. Suggestions?
See if you can get some 205/65x15s ... you may need to roll the rear fender lips though
Before I flared my car, my current front tires (225 x 50 x 16) were in the back.
It took a lot of rolling but I really did like the look. They were 5 lug but you can fit quit a bit in the back before you have to flare.
With the original 4 lug wheel and tires, I remember a lot of tire spin. With the 6 and no turbo, how does it feel now?
My understanding was that you were planning on stock offset wheels and retaining the narrow body characteristics. That's why I said 205/65-15s. I apologize if I'm preaching to the choir, but here goes:
The first # (205) is the tread width (the higher the #, the wider the tire is). In this case, a 205 is a nominal 8" width.
The second # (65) is the aspect ratio, or 'profile' (the higher the # the taller the tire is).
The stock OEM 914 tires were 165SR15, which were actually 165/80-15 (6.5" wide and 25.4" diameter). 205/65-15s are only slightly taller (25.5" diameter) than the stock tires but 1.5" wider (8").
205/65-15s are roughly 3% taller than the 205/60s you're currently running, so they're pretty close to stock height.
You can get away with wider tires (maybe 215) if you have a lower profile, but you may have rubbing issues, especially during hard cornering at speed. Also, the lower the aspect ratio, the higher RPM you're running at highway speeds.
Here's the tire size calculator I've been using for years: (http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tirecalc.php?tires=165-80r15-205-65r15) ... There's also one on 914 World as well, but I haven't been able to get it to work for me ... (http://www.914world.com/specs/tirecalc.php)
205/65 would be pretty fat and wide, I might be worried about rubbing (that's the weirdest thing I have typed in a while). 195/65 is very close to the original (tall) stock. Every brand is different though so check a few out unmounted before you get them installed.
Speaking of louvers
Check out what I got done today:
oooohhh
aaaaahhh
other noises
Found the NICEST guy who punched some more louvers in my PM panel. He owns a one-man hot rod shop about 50 miles outside of the Chicago area (but 100 miles from me). Was doing some beautiful cars. All 1920's to 1940's stuff. His metal skills were amazing. Of course I left my phone in the car so no pics there . Went from 16 to 40 total in a ~ 12.5 inch x 18 inch area. I also like the fact that the more concentrated ones are towards the back where most of the air will be exiting.
He said he would be willing to do more panels so maybe I'll do a group thing if there's a demand. Could probably do it for not much more than a Patrick panel but with about 3X the louvers.
OK Kent, I have 40, 4" x .25" louvers, what's my total exit flow area now? Am I at 2:1 if I cut the front out like yours but maybe not the upper bumper part? Just cut the holes into one big hole?
Edit: Duh, it's 40 square inches...I'll measure the inlet...probably NOT 2:1 but if I shroud it hopefully we'll be OK.
That panel gives you ~40sq inches. If your cut out is like mine (3.5" x 18") your inlet will equal 63". I've read but not confirmed that our target area for the outlet should = 1.7 x the inlet area.
63 x 1.7 = ~107 sq inches.
-40 sq inches
67 sq inches
So, if that 1.7 factor is correct you'll need another 67 sq inches. That being said, there are at least 5 unknowns that come to mind. First, is 1.7 factor an arbitrary number reached by someone? Was that figure for a LS1, 350 CI block, a 4 cyl Suby, a Ford 6 cylinder and so on? Where was that person's inlet and outlets located? What effect does hose size or routing have on this formula? Secondly is the location/placement of the outlets/louvers. IOW, are we placing the louvers in the lowest pressure area? The style of bumper that we use will greatly effect this location as well. I would think the louvers are most effective close behind the bumper where they ride in an relatively undisturbed slipstream. I suspect the air becomes quite scattered the further back one goes, which I'm sure has it's effect upon how efficient these louvers will be.
FWIW my total outlet area = 61 sq inches. So by following that formula I am 46 sq inches short or appx 43% undersized. As you know (Chris and I compare notes on a very regular basis), I'm very close, if not "at" the correct amount.
Alas, we may all be on our own until we standardize these installations and I don't see that happening unless people are willing to duplicate someones "correct" build.
I wish one of our AE's here was water cooled and could put the slide rule to this. A wind tunnel or raised flat bed truck + a 914 + some streamers and smoke pens would give the visual reference that my dumb ass would need.
Well I'm not sure if this will be enough but I'm planning to start by just cutting the holes up front into one big hole, so that's 2x18". Gives me 36 square in, 40 square out. If that proves to be inadequate I can cut out a section of the inner part of the bumper reinforcements. Definitely can get to 2:1 that way. I ordered the Renegade valance that looks like it scoops air in pretty well and then plan to make a ducting system like Ross's to push it back out. I think it will work fine.
I like it! Looks like that shape will give you a nice low pressure area beneath the louvers, also.
Yeah I called in last week to order it and the VERY nice person on the phone said "Hi this is Melba! How can I help you????" I thought...Melba...how do I know that name....hmmmm...don't know anyone who lives in Vegas....after a while I realized it was Toast from the BBS! Too funny.
Toast is good people. Well, my Speedo died yesterday but no biggie. It's new. I had done a quick patchwork at the gage area that needed to be corrected. I wired in a 12v power outlet but it's not installed on the gage face plate yet. The CEL is also back there and waiting to be installed. Obviously I need to make another piece of the burled aluminum for the base plate. It will glue on the piece of plywood with a new shift boot. Use your imagination! Outside of the Burled Aluminum trim, it came out remarkably stock in appearance which is exactly what I had wanted.
Gone are the A/F gage, oil pressure gage, fuel pressure gage. One vacancy will be filled with the seat heater switches another with a courtesy lite and the 3rd hole with the 12v power receptacle. All of my ancient carpet was rejuvenated for $13 worth of Dupli Color Vinyl, Fabric and Carpet spray paint. Doesn't leave the carpet feeling stiff either. It does require vacuuming just like regular carpet though. Anybody notice the missing radio? Not me. I can listen to that 6 all day long. The stereo is last on my list.
My fans are now working off the ecu but I'll be damned if I know why. Let me go back to the beginning. I've always been mindful of over heating the engine so I let the engine get to 3/4 (on the factory gage) of the way HOT (normal is 1/2) and I would check each of the 3 wires coming from the ECU for continuity. They provide the ground to the relay that controls that fan. I never got continuity on any wire or any combination of those 3 wires. Last week after some testing I forgot to remove the jumper that ran from the low speed wire to the 3 wires twisted together. (Previously I had jumped the low speed wire to ground when needed. Which was when I saw temps climb past 1/2 way on the gage.) Anyway I came home and thought I heard the fans spooling down when I shut it off. Turned the key back on and nothing. OK, I was hearing things. Next nite same thing so I made a note to check the fans before shutting it down the next day. Sure enough the next day I pull into the garage and with the engine running I feel air sucking in the inlet. Pop the hood and the fans are running. And within 30 seconds they shut down and gage was below 1/2.
For the life of me I cannot explain this sequence. Possibly the ECU looks at that connection before needing it and writes it off if it's not there. And why would it not connect after temps went passed 1/2 And to confuse matters further, guess when the fans come on? At the 1/2 mark! Way cooler than I expected. I never thought to check for signals at that temp. As long as they work and the engine is happy, I'm good. In the coming weeks I plan to delete 1 wire at a time from the bunch of 3 to determine what does what. I suspect 1 wire will be common to the other 2 and those 2 will be hi & lo. Well see. 700+ miles and counting.
I finally did some work on Kugel today. I've been having so much fun that I put this off until now. I hadn't wired my backup lights into the conversion yet so today (ahem, after a spirited run earlier )I found the last relay removed from the donor car and used it with the tranny switch on the ground side of the relay. The Subaru switch is the same plunger style switch as the 901.
Here is the relay (blue)mounted and wired up
Key on and I have reverse lights again. This winter I need to wire up my neutral switch, too.
I reinstalled the rain tray and guess what; it fits!
It's been a few months since my last post. The car now has about 2700 miles and most of that has been uneventful, which is a good thing. Items have been a rear brake line that leaked because I forgot to tighten it. That took 7 months to show up. The right headlamp power plug became disconnected because I ran the lead incorrectly and it would pull off when the lamp rotated. The horn took on a life of it's own till I discovered the warped rubber puck under the horn button. And one chaffed radiator hose that I carelessly installed.
This weekend at Rt66 the temp went up on me at 2700 ASL and I had to pull over for a few minutes then continued on with out incident. I caught it early and the engine didn't get heat soaked. I had been hammering it! OAT was increasing in Palm Springs. I had the RPM's in the 4-5K range and was pumping water too quickly thru my single pass radiator. Climbed another 3500' that day w/o incident but I kept the power setting at a sane level.
What I learned from this is that I'm "Border Line" on my cooling. I need a 2 or 3 core radiator. I plan on adding A/C and want to be able to drive in the summer, thru Vegas with A/C blasting. So, I will document that here once I install another radiator.
Mike Wills was nice enough to bring a windshield to Rt66 from AZ, Thx again Mike. So yesterday afternoon I removed my old sandblasted windshield. I was afraid of running into rust issues with < than a month before WCR15 but decided to just go for it and was pleasantly surprised. A surface rust area the size of a dime on the lower right corner and a slightly larger area on the left lower corner but it too is just surface rust. I Ice Picked the Hell out of it. All of the holes for the plastic rivets are true and no rust on any of them. I need to get a roll of Butyl Tape, a seal for the dash to windshield, clean and prime the channel then slap it in.
Check out the dirt. No wonder they hold moisture in this area.
The old seal removed. The shit was so hard a cat couldn't scratch it!
L&R lower corners. This is a bad as it gets.
These 2 pic's show the general condition of the channel. I'm a lucky man.
I won't bore anyone with the install. That ones been done already.
Finally! Two weeks in the garage but the new windshield is water tested and installed. I need new wiper blades to complete. New tires will be in this week so they will get mounted on the new Fuch's. Follow up with good cleaning and she'll be ready for WCR15.
Lugs nuts all prettied up
Nice! I bet it's like you don't even have a windshield in. Clear as a bell. I like the way yours is evolving. You're using it and just making little changes here and there. 2700 miles...of
Your so right, Chris. I drove facing into the sun yesterday and it was as clear as a bell. I finally got around to getting some tires mounted on the Fuch's I bought from Larmo. I went with 195/65's, which are larger than the 165/80's I had on there. Meet Mr. Inertia. I can feel it when accelarating or coasting. Also the break is MUCH more pronounced than previously. When it broke loose with the small tires you could feel it coming on early. More tire, more grip. As you can see in the pic's, there is very little difference in diameter's.
And when I replaced the windshield I also replaced the vinyl and pad. I used Mark's product (914rubber.com) and was impressed. The foam is different in structure but I love the substantial "feel" it lends to the installation plus it is easy to install. Just lay it out, weigh it down then trace out the cut lines by pressing down on the foam against the raised steel edges. In the pic's you can see where I pressed down to reveal the cut lines then followed up with the felt tip. I cut the vinyl using the old piece as a template then stuffed the edges in with a slim flat piece of metal. (It's really a chip chaser but worked great. It's the one with the green handle) Now I need the new dash that Mark is making along with a carpet kit and the interior will be finished. When I say finished, I mean that in the Mike Bellis sense!
Next I added a bit more Dynamat to the interior firewall and on the gas tank bulkhead.
Attached image(s)
And then to TOP everything off (punn intended) I added these little topper from Mikey
Looking good bud! Can't wait for the new Dashes from 914 rubber. Long time in coming those .
Me too, Jamie. But we've waited this long; what's a few month's? Mark took on a huge project that has "someone else" pulling his hair out I'll bet Mark will get it right before he starts taking money. Harumfff! And speaking of waiting. I've treated Kugel as if he were my Red Headed step child for far too long. That being said; something I've lusted over too many times. Proper mirrors. Only one question, though. Do I need to by a Rolex and leather jacket to "rub elbows" with this Real Mirror crowd?
And if one add CP mirrors I assume this is the next step. A real antennae.
A couple of door switch seals.
As long as I'm inside the door I need to start insulating and sealing things up. I'll start with the door. No room for insulation but a vapor barrier helps some.
But I believe this will be most beneficial; .5" insulation. I didn't place any on the firewall as it would interfere with installing the back pad.
Since I went to the trouble of pulling all of this old shit out I guess I should install some new carpet. I don't believe it appears the same colour in any of these pic's. The fit was excellent. Attaching the grommets to the posts were like stretching a gnat's ass over a rain barrel but they hold the carpet in place quite well.
more
And why this concern for insulation? Well it has something to do with this thing. More on this, soon.
Nice work.
CCCCOOL
Anyone who owned a VW in the mid-late '70's might get the hidden message .
My 2nd condenser arrived this afternoon 3 days early. I ordered the 1st one too small out of ignorance. It might have been large enough but it would have chocked down the air flow to the radiator tremendously. This one is about 1.5" more narrow than my radiator. So here are some pics of my 1st test fit of the condenser.
The compressor is ready to plumb in once I locate this 22mm suction fitting. The male one in the pic is 15mm. The suction port on the pump is 22mm. Now I need to order hose, fittings, evaporator and dryer.
I was finally able to locate that large AC fitting, so it was time to order hose and fittings. This was 3 evenings of perusing the internet and this is what I learned. These are the type tube used; steel, aluminum, SS, barrier hose, reduced barrier hose, Aeroquip, BurgaSeal aka BurgaClip. I was attracted to BurgaSeal because of the No-tools needed but those in the know said "Forget about it"! You could go broke using Aeroquip, I can't weld SS or Al so that left me with barrier hose. The reduced barrier hose is more $$ and allows tighter turns than plain barrier hose. I've since found the plain barrier hose turns quite enough for my needs. With that choice made I am left with 2 types of fittings to choose from; Barbed or BeadLock. Again, those in the know have suggested Beadlock as it is the Industry standard. This was a good choice (that happens when you take the pro's suggestions ) as it turns out because of the big selection of fittings. I don't know from Apple Butter about AC & fumbled about trying to create an order for fittings. I finally decided to order the hose first then "discover" what fittings I will need.
This is the #10,#8 & # 6 Hose I will need.
This is where I want to run them.
There are two factory holes in the gussets. The upper one needs to be enlarged for the hose.
And as you go forward the long flares out with the clam shell so it gets drilled.
The other side of the clamshell drilled and with a hose now passing thru it.
Then down and back under the car following the curvature of the seam. I'm holding it the way it will stay once anchored. After that it turns into the wheel well and I'll show that after the fittings arrive.
Loosely in place you can see the Suction line hanging beneath the front of the door and the 2 lines curving around the rear and up into the engine compartment.
Across the engine
And then tie into these 2 lines. More in the next few days as fittings arrive.
Watching! What are you doing to connect the old fittings to the new lines?
What exact condenser did you go with?
And where did you order the barrier hose from? Do tell
What does this guy think he is...a plumber or something?
Kent what are you going to control the setup with? The stock Subaru controls? Can't remember. Looking good .
I was just considering running the lines through the long on the passenger side. Good to see that coming together Kent! I need to get mine going. Was hoping to have it done for Red Rocks. Doubtful with it off for paint now. I'll get it back less than a week before I leave. So I will probably just finish my center console & deal with the a/c over the winter
Then I could do some cutting and welding to make it fit. Another evaporator that caught my eye is a cheap $60 Chinese unit http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Under-Dash-AC-Air-Conditioner-Add-On-Unit-12V-8-5A-3-Speed-UN-0888C-/351494122081?hash=item51d6aeaa61&vxp=mtr that has 4ea. - 2.25" openings. 2 for the OEM dash vents and 2 for the defrost. No way to isolate them so it would always blow thru all 4 but that is not a problem unless you like foggy windscreens.
I just bought that one to try, does not fit. Should require more cutting than the GenII unit would.
If I gave up on the idea of keeping the tock gas tank and when for a fuel cell, then I might not have all these issues. I would have other to deal with, but not this one.
Under dash certainly solves the problem, but then it clutters up the 914 cabin. I have started to think, even though I don't like them a center console could give me the space I need for all the modern getting soft niceties. Don't get me wrong, I like driving with out sweet rings and a wet back. I like not getting swamp ass after a long trip, and I really like after on those cool fall mornings not having to drive a 914 in a parka on my way to an event.
I would love for an under cowl unit to be made and maybe I should just get back to body work, but part of that for me is sanitary line running and getting the provision done before I put a finish coat of paint on the car. Heck it would be nice to keep it in epoxy primer as much as I change my car. Rat rod here I come. At least it would be one color!
Forgot to say thanks for the bracket, made it here safely.
And here is the mockup GenII Micro unit in a 914, as Kent said, minor issue with fitment. In reality until I have one in my hands, I don't know how close it is, but I am thinking you could move the fan, over some and duct it back into the unit. Might get by with very little cutting at that point and still run the stock gas tank.
I decided to buy one of these for a couple of reasons. I knew I would make umpteen trips if I went to some company and that would get old quick. It came in a nice case with #6,8,10 & 12 dies. Reduced barrier dies are available and not included with this kit. This is their entry level model and if I did this for a living I would spring for their Hydraulic hand pump kit. That sucker can fit anywhere.
I needed to make something so I could use this as a portable device as well. So I mounted it on a piece of 2" tube to give me some leverage when tightening.
This is the best reason to purchase one of these tools. This is a trick the Pros use. By twisting the hose you can get it to conform to bends w/ very little manipulation. The other end is a bulkhead fitting and crimped 90 degrees off so that when it is twisted to penetrate the front trunk it twists the hose. This twist makes the hose follow the seam that the hose is clamped to. It would be a Bitch to take the hose to someone and hope they got it correct. And I would need huge holes to pull the hose thru if fittings were installed beforehand.
The #8 bulkhead fitting from the wheel well side.
And from the trunk side.
Oh wow another tool to buy, unless you want to recoup some of your investment, I, have an addiction, feed the addict!!!
http://www.mastercool.com/product-category/automotive-products/hose-crimping-tools/ Oh they have brake line and AN flaring tools also.
Awesome! Looks fantastic!
Let me know if you want to sell it when your done!
I may just have to come visit to have you do the lines for mine
cont'd.
And I need 2 more bulkhead fittings to get these 2 open hoses into the cabin and tied into the evaporator. More after I receive some more fittings.
I will take you up on that!
Great looking build! I thinking going to run my lines through the heater hose tunnel. My car was a dealer AC car so I have the provisions on the pass side but I think I would rather do it this way, save from running them near the wheels.
What condenser did you go with?
Forgot to answer Andrew's question. It's the OG compressor, came with the donor car, an LL Bean.
Look what was waiting on me when I got home today. Man am I impressed. Talk about "under promise, over deliver"! I can't recall the last time I received a product so complete and professionally made. BTW, Made in the San Antonio, TX. Even the ABS cover is made in in house. All relays, solenoids, hose, hangers are included. I can't detect China on it anywhere. And, if you need support, have a question or whatever you talk to one of their in house techs for free. A+ product, A+ service.
Now I'm starting to get a picture of what is in store for me. Bob (BIGKAT83) tried to warn me. . 1st order is to pull the old fresh air/heater box as it will not be needed. Anybody need one? Then out come the seats, carpet and console, again. Re-configure the glove box to pick up another 2" of passenger leg room and the console to accept the evap unit, remove the dash (IIRC 4th in Mikey's line ), tie defrost and panel vents into the new evaporator, run vacuum lines/reservoir and everything else I'm forgetting. If I'm finished in 3 weeks I will be happy.
I did not realize these require vac, I thought it used electric for the servos
I looked at the link you provided and at the bottom it looked like they advertised it as a Vintage Air unit- same controls, same price at $345. That's the one or is it a different manufacturer? Looks pretty slick! If you keep the heater valve closed, you shouldn't have any hot water running through your system so unless I'm figuring wrong, you should be able to tap into your hot side radiator plumbing without unnecessary hot water heating up your cabin. You'd eliminate a lot of extra tubing and work if you could, but then you knew that... just trying to help because I'm looking at a similar setup and your work is an inspiration- nice to be able to pick anothers' brain via the Interweb!
Did you ever think about using hard lines? You would need a tig welder, but it would be a cleaner looking job. You would lose that ugly big rubber hose,and have nice steel lines.
Lots of A.C. shops can weld the ends on,if you do not own a tig welder.
I'll buy you a beer if you keep a list of the different fittings and hose sizes, ect. It would be nice to have a paper "kit" saved so just an order or two would have everything ready to start assembly. My shop has the tools but your example would save many hours and dollars. thanks
Where do you get your supplies from?
Can not find his account. Can you link to a product?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311324606669?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
This is "one" of his items but it has the link to his store.
Prices look pretty good! I have been looking at coldhose.com and your guys pricing is nicely cheaper!
Well, today was a full day. With the heater box out that dark recessed area was now an eye sore. I wiped down an area to the left
Then it got good to me so I scrubbed and waxed the old paint
With that out of the way I moved on to finish the piping portion. As it turned out I was short one 90 and 2' of #10 hose. I'll just post some pic's as they speak for themselves.
Before these last 2 hoses could be located and punched out the evap unit needed to be located and hung in place and only then can you locate those final firewall or bulkhead fittings. Since it was shipped in a urethane clam shell w/ a flat side I used the bottom piece as a support then just shimmed beneath that until I was close enough to begin positioning it.
And here it is in place. What'da think?
I almost shit in my shoes when I first began searching for a way to attach the evaporator. I was sure it was Fab time and I didn't want to cut my Cherry lower dash so I pulled out an old cracked one to fiddle with when I saw it. NO cutting or drilling that would ruin a good dash piece. Two of the screws that hold that piece in place lined up with the units support brackets. I just needed to R&R the OEM screws w/ ones 35mm in length and place some steel stand offs beneath the bracket so it could not be tightened against the vinyl.
This is the hole on the far right psg side
And this one is 2 holes down to the drivers side. The 2 brackets supplied are not symmetrical and I'm quite sure I have them inverted from their intended orientation but who gives a The bracket on the drivers side needed to have a hole drilled 1" off center from the supplied hole but other than that it fits and I'm 6 hr's ahead of the game.
Some piping from the rear
I always wondered why my control cable wouldn't slide all the way over
No wonder these pieces didn't want to separate. From inside the Drivers side.
and the psg side
gate pressure bowed this one over time
The Electric Kool Aid Assed Test. My big ass fits comfortably. My wife has a ton of leg room but she is only 5'. The red post (between my feet)will be removed when I attach the rear supports.
Wow, 2 weeks since I posted. I usually can't keep my mouth shut that long. I've been moving at a snails pace but it picked up this weekend after I received more materials. One of the things I went back on was to add support to the AC and water lines. Most of the sleeved areas aren't visible.
The heater section is pretty straight forward. The Subaru engine has a separate heater loop that I am using so I won't be tying into the in/out radiator lines. FYI, it allows for a faster warm up in the cabin and a few other engine items as well. I had the 5/8" water lines looped together previously but now that I need that circuit I'm using this GM vacuum actuated 4 port bypass valve. Only one moving part.
I added this Dorman Vacuum Reservoir that fits in the support arm's groove perfectly.
Then there was the matter of getting the water lines down the tunnel. And there is also a couple of vacuum lines threaded thru that jungle. I changed religion 3 different times during this course of the install but finally found the trick. Both lines run from heater to bypass valve w/o any splices. In this pic you see where the lines pop back out of the tunnel. When all is working and in it's final spot I will cut channels in the urethane foot rest so that surface remains flat and the carpet lays evenly.
I had to clearance the access cover at the front of the tunnel to allow passage of the hoses.
A peek at the lines as the pass beneath the rear access cover.
Exiting out the firewall. These still need metal sleeves where they pass thru.
This is one of the best aspects of this under dash unit that I'm using. It has a separate defrost circuit that I'm going to use. But I needed to use a little Out House Engineering. A little aluminum crudely shaped with a 2" flange riveted in place. Then this piece is pop riveted to the OEM supply elbow which is cannibalized from the OEM air box. So, when I select AC or Heat it will blow from the vents of the under dash unit. And when I select defrost the air will divert to these little units and flow out the defrost vent and/or the OEM fresh air vent. The OEM vents can always be closed to boost the defrost or opened to defrost the door glass.
The heater lines connected. Wait till you see how the speaker cover even goes back into place, slightly trimmed. It's going to be tight!
After I cleaned the elbows that the aluminum adapters connect with I decided to take a look at the other side. the inside. Before
And after
Great work!! Really impressed with some of the fab you did. Like your solution for the defrosters, I was considering cutting them back to the first hole and just using that hole for my setup. I was thinking of using ABS plastic for the cap and plastic welding it then finishing it up with silicone and paint like you did.
Kent not sure you answered this but I think Andrew asked also.
Where did you get your condenser at?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Thx Andy but not AC grade work. Then again I don't have to find a landing spot to fix screw ups. Your skills are showing thru as well. And to all the other guys going this route, I'll have some AC/Heat items to sell cheaply after I'm finished!
Stephan, here is that link http://www.ebay.com/itm/351173823661?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I thought I posted this last nite but it ain't here today sooooooooooo otra vez.
I made this rail cap ( .025 2024 T-3)
To seal this gap on top
Attaching
Well that was fun. Just spent an hour loading and lost it all. God Damnned Explorer. And fucking Firefox likes to stop receiving text input about every 20 seconds so I'm typing away while the cursor just sits there. FUCK< FUCK< FUCK. These next post will be truncated and not more than 5 fucking minutes each. So now I'll get back to how I ran duct to the OEM dash vents from the new AC/Heat system that the God Damned fucking internet has tried to fuck up for me.
The original openings will be used to run the duct from the new unit.
The template used for the base plate and base plate gasket.
Test fit of the base plates before drilling 2" holes in them
Welded up. Joints were sealed with Wurth's before paint
A quick test fit
Primed
Cut a couple of gaskets
Quick couple of coats
Painted piece fitted in place
Cleaned up the old rain tray and repurposed it.
Looks like a great solution. "Cleaned up the old rain tray and repurposed it." For
Right side fitted up and installed in place
A pic before the tank goes back in
Driver's side ducting from below
This is where the duct's connect on the unit. Very close to the metal but it clears.
You ever have a good idea that really wasn't? I decided to fit the hose to this elbow prior to re-connecting the elbow to the dash panel. I wasted an hour trying to start the upper left nut. The next day I removed the vent which gave me a bit more room to start the nut. Took a few minutes to reconnect the duct to the elbow but much easier this way. The drivers side is a snap.
Center shot all buttoned up. One of these pic's somewhere shows the ugly blue wires cleaned up.
Right side
The renewed rain tray
Left side
The ugly blue wires concealed in 1/4" loom
Hopefully the front trunk area is now complete.
And only 8 items left on my checklist.
Fantastic progress! Love the fab work. Great creativity as usual!
Oh so I get it, just your rain water collector system.
Heat and.A/C in a 914-6. Perfect.
What an excellent build...
That is some amazing work.
John
All the hoses are tied in and it got a little crowded. The red circles are ends of the same hose that loops up/down to make connection. Same with the blue except it loops down/up. Look at the 3rd circle in the shadow and you see it. The urethane foot rest will be channeled to bed the hoses flush, I hope.
After the AC is working I need to wrap some more of that sticky black rubber around the exposed metal of the pressure (small) line.
And the two heater lines on top of the AC ports.
Freon later this week. I test the heater and defrosters tomorrow. Kent
I was able to button it up this week; several times. Sorting out gremlins and making things fit. The defroster actually blows. I thought it was pretty good then noticed it was on low. Yeah, it works. I did manage to a few hours away chasing what I presumed was a vacuum leak only to discover that I needed to turn the blower on before it would energize the vacuum solenoid to the heater valve. I found that I have the lines to the heater crossed at the by pass valve but it will just have to stay that way until after the G&R meet manana.
Here's a pic of the footrest after a little grooving for the hose. Since I completed the freon connections at the condenser I was able to finally run the condensate drain. Previously I wasn't sure what would end up where and yadi, yadi. It exits almost in the corner. Off 'bout 1".
Here is why. I wanted to place it exactly in the corner but found the jack point piece would be compromised. To miss drilling thru the meat of that piece meant moving appx 1.5" further away from the corner or................drilling the hole dead center of the cone. The piece will push up when the jack point is used too.
Trimmed the speaker pod to fit. It wasn't primo before and it damn sure ain't now but it tidies the area up once in place.
I punched a hole in my new carpet (thx Mikey) for the condensate drain. Sacrifices were inevitable.
Just a few pics of the inside after everything was back together. This coming week I should be able to charge and freeze. I hope, I hope, I hope. So many things to go wrong. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel getting brighter.
The left panel ended up getting a trim where the new duct crosses over.
Attached image(s)
I hit a little hitch with my AC so I decided to jump into installing my new dash. It took a bit of "self persuasion" before I could begin to remove everything I had installed in the previous week but "asi es la vida". I used the thread in the Lapuwali Forum and found it quite useful, however I believe that the removal of the glove box and the related "dreaded door spring" wasn't necessary and will confirm once the new dash top is installed tomorrow. The only nut that was difficult was the one on the far right side facing the front. It can be removed with a 13mm crows foot or heat up and bend a cheap HF wrench to fit. I'll shoot a pic of this for the re-installation.
Out with the old
As I was fidgeting with the installation one of the plastic studs pop out. Got me to cussing a bit but in hind site I'm glad it happened. It was easy enough to thread the stud back into the metal threaded piece inside the dash. I decided to check how well the plastic nut would thread on incase I had boogered the threads. I couldn't get ANY of the plastic studs to accept the OEM plastic nuts. OK. I then tried a 13mm metal nut. Same thing. Since I have the patience of a charging Rhinoceros I decided to try this instead. I used a piece of threaded rod I had setting around and cut 9- 7/8" long pieces then set them 5/16" deep into a bit of silicone to lock. Don't set them any deeper than 5/16". This leaves 9/16" exposed. Same as the OEM. Don't throw away the old plastic studs. You might need one like I did. On mine, the far left stud would not thread in. I found the metal threaded piece was "hammered" . I felt the metal tab might dislodge if I tried to tap it so I simply re-installed (read jammed) one plastic stud. Granted it was and is cross threaded into the dash but I don't see removing it in the near future. BTW, don't forget to run the plastic stud thru an 8mm die several times to resize to accept the plastic OEM nut.
I want to point out that the quality of this piece is very good and I expected some "teething issues" as mine is one of the first produced. Hope this helps some of you guys.
Attached image(s)
Nice work! Dang your old dash was CRACKED!
Let me see if I've got this right - the new dash came with new studs? ... just the wrong size/pitch?
Yeah Chris, It looked like hammered dog but thanks to Mark W. it will look a lot nicer now. The one in my white car is perfect; go figure.
Mark, they are pieces cut from an 8mm plastic thd rod, I believe. I say that because the length of each varies slightly. Most likely some Chinese product that got out of spec somewhere in production. I checked to see if they were 5/16" but they aren't. I did however use 5/16" because it "locked" into the shallow threaded receptacle a little tighter than 8mm did. ps, one can also use 5/16" brass closet bolts cut to length if you go 5/16". Brass is easier to cut!
... or just get some cheeeeep Chinese M8 nuts
Hardly noteworthy but glad it is holding. As I mentioned earlier; I don't know from Apple Butter about AC but I'm learning. I could pull it down but it would leak down almost immediately. I put some dye down the hose before tapping into the Freon can and there it was staring me in the face. The O-ring on the OEM fitting (circled in red) at the compressor was hard as a rock. Missed that . The other leak was on the "New" crimp fitting (circled in red as well). Do you see the error? I didn't either until now. Look at the ferrule. Notice the indentations from the crimp aren't as pronounced as the fitting to the right of it? Yep, I crimped a #8 fitting with #10 dies.
I tried to match the thread pitch with the OEM. We will now include matched nuts with these.
I had a feeling that waiting to ship would have some benefits
FWIW, Marks Dash Top appears to be an improvement over OEM as it is much more substantial. When each are held side by side, the OEM dash feels like a cheap imitation.
In other news: I finally got off my Ass and completed the VSS circuit. W/O that signal the ECU would completely cut out until I let off the throttle and pushed down on it again. It only happened if my throttle position remained steady for extended periods of time. It first raised it's ugly head on the trip to WCR2015. I almost myself but soon realized how to manage it. It was never a problem in town as the peddle get moved a lot. Tom at the EZ30 board enlightened me so I tried it. In the process I discovered that I had connected the VSS signal wire to the ECU but failed to energize it. IOW's, I didn't connect the 12v or ground wire. I started it as I was rolling down the drive and the idle shot up. I stopped and said waited a few seconds and drove down the street in 2nd while it idled high. By the 3rd stop sign the computer accepted the new signal but something else cleared up which was a welcome bonus. Don't know why but the popping/backfire, which I had always attributed to an open and very short exhaust, went away. Sounds Bad Ass during down shifts now. I don't know if it cured the cut out on the hi way yet so I'll cross my fingers until I get it on the open road again. If that was it I see no reason not to install Cruise Control. Don't anybody tell Pat Garvey.
Damn, all this criticism of Marks product yet I forget to post some pic's of it installed. Those of you sitting on the fence should move on this. Anyway, here it is installed. Onward thru the Fog!
Kent,
Just as a double check, that VSS signal is coming from the 3 pole sender on the passengers side of the transmission right? I want to make sure I've got it hooked up properly!
-Ross
Yep. GB to A1 and the other 2 are +/-. I couldn't find my wires listed, which are G, W & Br so I measured the dia of both and deduced the larger was +. Lucked out and got it right. Yours might be Gb=VS, Y=+ switched & B= -. How many miles you got on her, now Ross?
Can't say for sure since I switched back to a stock-looking speedo(using the subie speed sensor) 3000 miles in, but probably close to 6k now. Only 22mpg on the last tank though, too many redline pulls for good fuel economy ! II got to drive rays conversion today, and I have to say, that hydraulic clutch is silky smooth. I'm going to be switching over this winter for sure.
Yep. You heard it here first. And just in time for Winter. Our coolest day in month's. Appropriate. All joking aside, I couldn't believe it when I saw the gages come to life and the compressor kick in w/o being jumped. I'm happier than a two petered Billy Goat. I'm sure I will have teething pains to address but this entire process has been a mind bender for my little brain. I knew "0" about AC a few month's back and thx to the internet I now have AC/Heat/Defrost/heated seats. I may need to "open up" the front a bit or change radiators or increase fender ducting or...........who knows. I had the console in and out 6 times since I thought I was finished. No matter. At this point the hard work is behind me and only a few mods in front of me. I suspect a few of those will come as next summers heat begins. Can't wait for Mark's roll bar trim to complete my interior.
So working HEAT and AC? Dang. Might have to change the model number on that car. How's it working?
Sir, you are my hero!
Well done my friend . I have dreams of finishing mine. Right now I am wishing my heating unit didn't get taken apart. As a donor that we didn't use anyway. Would much rather have that in my car right now . Still sweet to see yours up & running. Will make the long drives in heat so much nicer
I couldn't get a reply from any of our resident electrical specialist (in the "Electrical Question" thread) so I moved on without 'em. I may have stumped them This is my situation. I wired my radiators to have a 2 speed function. Ground one of the 2 neg wires and it runs on low speed. If you ground both then it runs on high speed. On the other side is the ECU which normally controls the fan speeds. It also does this thru neg switching. There are 3 wires coming out of the ECU that "supposedly" control the fans. I was a little cautious in the beginning and twisted all 3 together hoping it worked. Well it has but now I want to see if I can determine which of these 3 switching wires does what and when? Make sense so far? I made a temp panel & mounted 3 LED lites in it and placed it so that I can see it in the rear view mirror when driving. My challenge was to isolate each lite from the circuit or all 3 would illuminate at the same time no matter which wire was active. IOW, they will all share a common (+) so if they also share a (-), which they do via the ground connection to the fans, they will all lite up. I placed a small switching diode on each of the 3 wires between the ECU & the junction of the 3 wires. Then I tapped into each wire with a (-) lead going to it's corresponding lite. Hopefully, I'll find that one is low, one is high and the 3rd is . Possibly on the AC circuit and controlled by AC pressures or just the activation of the AC compressor??? Who knows. My only concern in all of this is there can be issues when diodes are run in parallel. I'm hoping that I don't get any "bounce back" since I'm on the neg side. I won't know until I drive it a short little while. I did fuse the 12v+ connection to the LED's just in case.
My new lift inspired me to replace my noisy and unacceptably low exhaust system. By using SS my product line triples and allows me to reconfigure the existing system thereby shortening it and allowing the use of a normal muffler.
Here you can see it runs beneath the engine cradle giving it just 3" ground clearance!
An entire side with the whopping 10" Glass Pack. At the time, there wasn't room for anything else.
This is the piece that should allow me to change things around and shorten it up. A 2" 2r 180' or U Bend.
The 2" is too small so I will have to add a piece to fill the oval flange.
This piece will need to have one end expanded at the muffler shop manana.
I ended up with 1/2" clearance between the engine cradle and the drop arm when fully extended.
Here's the end that will need cut, expanded and welded to complete the sharp turn 90'.
If this works I'll order the pieces for the other side and the mufflers and flanges. Oh, almost forgot to say thanks to Mike (Mueller) for the SS wire. I owe you one.
WCR convinced me that I did not have enough space when traveling with my wife. I bought the luggage rack from Steve a few months back. I still need to fab the proper brackets which are on the underside. Picked the lid up a couple of weeks ago from Ian, IIRC. The lid was from the 914 used in the "Wheeler Dealer" episode. Not that I give a Rat's Arse about that. The CF Wrap from Amazon for <$18. It's only use will be when we travel and I couldn't see dropping a bunch of $$ on this project or drilling holes in my existing lid.
Like it! Did you get the exhaust finished?
Yeah it's been a mild winter. Been busy but hopefully soon. Getting some new tools for Christmas. Will be dropping the engine soon and fixing the leak at the oil pump. Also want to flip the manifold if I can. I found a stock intake on e-bay (finally!).
The muffler arrived yesterday and I was able to test fit it. The 4"x9" oval shape works. That's the good news. The bad is that I probably won't use this muffler. It's about as straight thru as the existing Glasspacks. No problem. The shape was my main concern. My concerns were threefold. 1st was quite, then clearance and finally use the existing cutouts on the rear fairing.
If you think the U fitting weld joint isn't square your right. It was necessary to center up with the "channel" the muffler will sit in.
These flanges will move in front of the stub axles for added clearance but they actually clear as they sit. I just don't see any sense in crowding the axles if I don't need to.
The strap on the left side of the muffler will be R&R'd during assembly. Managed to hit the old cutout's in the rear fairing.
That 1/4" wood spacer between the muffler and rear sway bar is there until I spot weld the muffler up.
You can see the ground clearance difference between the old system on the left and the new system on the right. Now that I know it will fit, it is ime to order the parts for the left side.
I went through all this too. The relatively large single exit limits your mandrel bend angle. I like how you ran the piepes under the axle. Did you run 2" all the way back?
I had mine internally and externally ceramic coated and it really seemed to help. The pipes hardly seem hot while running and cost <100$ for my entire system.
I think the powder coater used Cerakote, I got the satin black coating as the aluminum engine has enough bling by itself!
I found this after a New Years Day run in the mountains. It also me at WCR and I thought the clamps would stop the rubbing but evidently not.
Time to stop this and bring everything inside. I did this on the other side originally. But I got cute with the drivers side and it didn't work so on to
Trim piece and a quick test fit.
Welded in and painted
And Presto. I should have done this earlier but some times I convince myself that something is too much of a PITA and prolong the misery.
I forgot the member that originally posted on Dallas Coley's work but I sure want to thank him. "That" member, not to be confused with "That guy", recently posted he had Dallas refinish his license plate so I thought "What the Heck" and called Dallas. He said that he could indeed refinish license plate frames so I sent him this one....
And $70 later (total incl shpg) I receive this, Dallas does good work and for those looking, I'd suggest you give Dallas a try. BTW, he has very good communication skills.
It took about 5 min's to realize I hated my new mufflers. They were almost the opposite of the 4"x10" Glass Packs I had been running. The Glass Packs were loud as Hell when under load but had a sweet note at cruise. The 3 chambered MagnaFlows were quieter under load but louder at cruise + they produced a terrible drone. So just for shits and grins I stuck the glass packs inline on the exhaust stub outs. I should have taken a pic. Looked like a Hill Billy mod. But guess what? It now produced exactly the sound I was looking for but how to do this? Bob (BIGKAT) had tried to tell me this a year ago but I didn't think there was room. Once again I was wrong as you can see in these 2 pic's. Just needed to use a couple of 90's, shorten my cable shift mount 1.5" and those glass packs fit right in.
I had to weld in some stub outs after the 2 glass packs were stuck together.
I added anther couple of flange sets so I could remove the new addition to service shifter attach points and cables.
Added a little insulation for heat barrier.
This is what I ended up with and the Dreaded Drone is gone. I'm running without a fairing for now but will probably add one later.
I totally dig on the new exhaust. I'm a sucker for the center exit. Summit has a fully welded muffler that I run on everything. Its cheap, sounds good under power, and real quiet in cruse conditions.
They probably cost me a little power over a chambered muffler but I don't really care.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/summit-racing-fully-welded-turbo-mufflers
Steve
I wonder what that setup would sound like on a stockish t-4 running heat exchangers. Low cost alternative to the systems currently out there. Looks cool. Looking forward to the YouTube sound bite if you post one.
Thank you for the info Kent , new setup looks good. So crap, Looks like I'll be running a rear Valance also. Mufflers hand down to far, time to dig mine up, and get to work, just when I thought that area was all done.
I am glad you found a solution to your issue, and where willing to share it once again.
Any chance of a vid with sound? It looks very, very promising!
Menno
Thanks guys. I don't have a GoPro so I stuck my camera on the dash. Sound quality isn't great but it covers most driving styles and you'll get an idea. The top is off so there is wind noise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh-ClYj9LQ8&feature=youtu.be
Sounds good to me
Nailed it. WAY quieter than before.
wow... sounds great!!
You should have someone record a drive by @ around 5k rpm. No valance needed. You're a clever fellow. A bit of an extension on the outlets, just short of 'banging your shins', would look good too.
Just read through the entire thread. Awesome info. Thanks for documenting everything.
Hope to see the car someday. I'm actually just south of you. I'm in SD, but my 914 is in Fallbrook.
Great job on your car
Well thanks but you can ditch what I said about radiators and go this route if you do a conversion. The Sirocco radiator was fine unless you wanted to race uphill in 95F weather, add an AC or tax it in any way. IOW, it was minimal. Given others recent change over to the Celica GT version, I hopped aboard. It is a dual core unit that fits quite well in the space allotted. Price was $167 shipped to my front door. I'm a little skeptical of the fans that came with it but we shall see.
The first step was to build a frame to hold the new radiator and condenser. I won't bore you with the dimensions.
You can see the rubber shocks in place that the radiator sits upon. These were pulled off the donor car 2 years ago, removed from the OEM bracket and added to this steel frame.
Next the frame is welded at the bottom to the trunk floor. At this stage the frame is semi-ridged as it is attached only at the bottom. The top will be supported by a re-enforced lid. Note the foam tape in place to serve as a seal.
Now the radiator is fitted onto the frame and sits upon the lower rubber shocks. The upper rubber shocks have been added at this point as well. Again, these were removed from the donor car and the OEM bracket was cut to fit and painted.
The condenser is test fitted and the C shaped stand-offs are added to the top. These will have plate nuts for the lid to screw into and hold the radiator firmly in place and more importantly, to hold the radiator tightly against the seal on the frame.
The 3/4" square tube is added, next to the stand-offs, that will have a rubber seal strip and complete the seal from lid to radiator. (It's also shown 2 pic's back.)
And as it looks once buttoned up. I'm going to run this set up a few weeks w/o the condenser then re-install it to see how temps will vary. More later.
Looks great!!
What size hoses did you go with?
Yeah no rush at all. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't holding you up. I say try it how it is. Probably be fine.
I'll be working on mine this weekend for sure. Hope to get that engine out.
I was able to squeeze in a quick run this evening after reconnecting the hoses and topping off the coolant. The new radiator added about 1 qt to the cooling system capacity. I let it idle about 10 min. and the Subie factory gage was approaching the mid point i.e. operating temp, when I pulled out of the garage. I drove around the hood for 10 min's (<40mpn & 55F) and the needle never moved nor did the fans kick on. Ran it up to 55mph and the fans kick on. Drop to 40 and they go off, and so on.
This is the 1st noticeable improvement. I will pull the fan's fuse before the next run to see what happens to the temps at 55mph+. Either the sensor cut in / cut out is not compatible with this system, in which case I'll go to an after market sensor, or it's time to order some 1 1/4". When the OLD radiator was installed it took several minutes for the fans to shut down after they came on. As stated above, they only came on above 55mph tonite. They also would kick in on the hi way quite often with the old radiator in place. I may find that this isn't an "and/or" scenario but an and/and scenario. More later.
Sounds like great progress.
I am going 1-3/4" on cold side 1-1/2" on hot side. There is enough room on the EG to go full 2", but 1-3/4" seems like it should function just fine.
Can't wait to see your results. Might make me change my mind.
Just noticed your question Andrew. 7/8 & 3/4".
Today I drove with the fans fuses pulled. I drove around the "hood" for 10-15 mins w/normal stop n go. OAT was 75F and speeds were < 45mph. Engine temp stayed centered. I then hit the Wine Country back roads for another 30 mins. OAT 75F, speeds < 62mph, engine temps still centered. AHAAH I thought those fans were running too much and now I know they were.
All this thought about changing my cooling system began when I installed a light to tell me when the fans were running. I noticed they came on (and off) when on the hi way. The temps were always centered but damn it, those fans shouldn't have been on. I also noticed that if I stopped then started the engine the fans did not come back on, although they had been running 10 seconds before???
So the cut in/cut out factory set points do not appear to be the best set up for my system. Looks like an adjustable fan controller is in my future. I should be able to dial it in quickly as I know what the temp gage should read.
Next test hop I plan to run some realistic hi way speeds 70-80mph with a bit of higher RPM driving to test for 2 things. Both were mentioned in an article that George posted in Chris' thread. One is cavitation the other is high pump head pressure. More later.
I ditched my ECU fan controls. Never ran right for some reason. Installed the Derale 16759. It has an AC override circuit. Very easy to wire up to a switch if you want to run it continuously too. It's about 99% less complicated and only requires one relay which is included. The initial factory setting is WAY low on the Derale BTW. Kicked on at like 170 or something. Easy to adjust though.
You can also look at the http://derale.com//products/electric-fans/fan-controllers/pwm/pwm-fan-controller-push-in-probe-detail
It is a bit more, 65 Amp capacity, and A/C override. Big difference is it controls fan speed so the fans are only turning at a high speed when the need to be. This reduces noise and amperage loads.
Derail makes some nice stuff.
Im going to be running the Davies Craig water pump and LCD control panel, it circulates both the water pump and fans perfectlg for speed and timing to maintain the desired temperature.
I got both for ~320 shipped from australia. Theres a link to the ebay auction/seller in my thread, ill get it in a bit.
For the few that are following this Boredom Bowl, I will continue to post these uninspiring updates on my cooling system. I'll try to keep these brief until it's complete.
Hit the hi way yesterday for about 40 min's. This hi way has about 6 stop lights along the route and I kept it at 70mph+. Why this test? In reading one of the articles that Stephen posted it spoke of a head pressure build up on the pump. I had noticed this phenomenon early on but wasn't sure what was behind it. Heat or pressure? I used this MC filler neck in the front trunk and noticed a discharge after some hard runs so I poked a hole in the top of this water bottle to catch the overflow.
It was only then that I noticed how much it discharged. No problem. I'd just pour it back in the expansion/recovery tank in the engine bay every once in a while. So now that I know why this happens I want to see if there is has been a change since the radiator swap. I didn't see any discharge w/ this radiator but I didn't "horse it" either. I'm betting 4000rpm+ and I will see it return unless this radiator flows more freely. 70mph is only 2800rpm.
So all this and what did I learn? Just that the discharge is not constant. I may have the chance to "horse it" this afternoon to see if high rpm is related to that discharge. Seems logical that pressure would increase with rpm. If that's the case, and I suspect it is, I will change hose size. More later.
We may all end up going this route but I had a pleasant surprise after yesterdays drive. I horsed it around on some back road twisties yesterday and did not have any discharge into the water bottle reservoir. Maybe a little in my pants as a Mountain Lion crossed the road in front of me but none in the water bottle. Previously high RPM's preceded (not ready to say caused) this discharge. Absolutely no reason for this unless the newer radiator has < flow restriction than the old one. Maybe the 3/4" return IS ample. Regardless, it's time to throw the condenser back into the mix and see what happens next.
No apparent changes to the indicated temp since throwing the condenser back on so I installed the Derale fan controller. The factory ECU was not shutting the fans down once they activated so I'm hoping this unit will produce favorable results.
It's quiet compact:
Compared to my old Rat's Nest.
Just needed to make this Tee for the sender and I was good to go. Look out Rt 66!
Looking good, got to love progress!!!! I think you will be happy with that controller they work very well.
Nice work Kent. So simple. The stock system thinks too much doesn't it ? Dang computers . I like how you can easily wire it to run all the time if you want with a switch. Nice for the first few days of the conversion too. Next time !
Thx guys and just as you you predicted Chris, the factory setting was way too low.
Yeah it's easy to adjust. Mine was set at 165...and the controller is designed to turn off after the system cools down 10 degrees. So...highly unlikely the fans are strong enough to cool the system down to 155. They would stay on until the car was shut off. What are you gonna set it at? 185? 190? Just eyeball your gauge for the middle? I remember the SVX gauge stayed EXACTLY between C and H.
I've only adjusted it once so far, Chris. I just turned the screw until the fans shut down since the gage was centered at that moment. I'm not going to do any serious adjusting until it warms up a bit and the AC is in full swing. I can check temps with an IR thermometer at the copper tee later and dial it in. Yesterday, I discovered that an AC line was contacting the R side tie rod when the wheel was turned completely to the right so I rerouted those lines.
Alright, hose update. Got my 1.25 installed and all is well so far.
Kent here are some pics and info for your install:
Tips:
- The 1.25 is a STRETCH to get onto the radiator inlet/outlet but hot water and dish soap and they will fit. Might have the same experience on the engine end but be patient.
- The larger hose is not as bendy so keep that in mind when making turns, etc. Leave extra and then trim off a little at a time if you have a 90 degree turn.
- I had to X my lines because my hot line on the engine is on the passenger side and the inlet on the rad is on the drivers side. Do that in the front trunk if you have to, not underneath.
Up front:
When you look underneath the car you will see that there very few places that the hoses fit through the steering rack. Basically if you locate the center of the steering rack (there is a bolt or something there), the hoses BARELY fit on either side. A lot of people just cut one hole that is oval/oblong shaped which makes sense. One will pass VERY close to the clutch setup, touching it most likely. That is the only route that allows you to easily line the hoses up in the recesses in the middle of the car.
Examples for you:
See how tight the fit is there? There was an extra hole in the clutch plate so I zip tied the hose to it.
This shows both hoses from the other angle. You can see how they fit into the recesses (ALMOST exactly).
The other alternative is to come out the sides of the front trunk but the steering gear is there and there could be interference. Maybe not I just didn't like the idea myself.
To attach the hoses underneath I used these:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/1-1-2-in-Rigid-2-Hole-Conduit-Straps-2-Pack-26125/100124729
Even though they might seem too small, the recessed area makes it work.
To attach them I used the same bolts as before for the outer bolts (floor side) since they are lower profile. You can see them in the pic. For the inner ones in the tunnel I used 10/24 size with this HF threaded rivet nut tool
http://www.harborfreight.com/45-piece-threaded-insert-riveter-kit-1210.html
For 10/24 you need slightly larger than a 1/4" drill bit. Then hog it out a bit more and the insert fits in. Even though they are aluminum they seem plenty strong. When drilling in the tunnel the closer to the middle the better. Stay away from the seam between the two and it's highly unlikely you'll hit anything.
The system seems easier to fill and it has taken nearly 3 gallons so far. Temps are super cool but I haven't run it that long yet since I want to make sure it's full.
How's it going with the engine install? You get ant time this weekend? PM me with questions or call me.
Update again!
I was able to start the car and let it idle for about 10 minutes. It wouldn't even get to 150 degrees with the 1.25 hoses. I know the gauge is dead on accurate since the sender is on the engine itself now. I'm running with no thermostat BTW, but more on that in my thread. You don't need to run that way. It does heat up more evenly.
KENT YOU'RE GONNA LIKE THIS UPGRADE!!!!
Not trying to be a post whore. Just needed to add this link re: the engine swap. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=286795&hl=
I wanted to keep the std spec Serpentine belt from the beginning so that I would not need to remember what size belt to buy in the future. My first attempt was to block off the in/out ports on the pump. To do this I needed to disassemble the pump in order to remove the vanes. This worked fine for 7K miles but then the bearing gave out. I believe that w/o the vanes in place too much lateral load is placed upon the bearing from the belts tension. I had another pump and installed it but knew I needed to find another solution or go thru this again. This is my solution for the 3.0. I don't know if the set up is the same for the 2.5's but maybe. Material cost = ~ $60.
Remove the PS bracket then the PS pump from the bracket.
Cut 2, 1/8" pieces of steel to fit the front and rear of the bracket. Note that the front piece should be radiused to clear the wheel. Hole locations are transferred from the bracket to the plate via hole centering punches. The bolt hole for the wheel itself is simple to locate. It is lined up vertically with the bottom bolt hole and 1/2 way between the 2 top bolt holes.The piece on the right with the piece of tube tacked on is the front piece.
A view from the backside.
Some pics of the front and rear pieces bolted in place. ***Note*** the bottom hole has an aluminum boss on the bracket the protrudes about an 1/8" out that needs to be filed down or the front plate will not fit flush!
Add the necessary amount of washers to clearance the wheel from the bracket.
Finally install the wheel.
A few different pics showing the assembly in place and the clearance between the bracket and wheel. It's close but that is what is necessary to keep the wheel lined up with the belt.
I've got about a 1,000 miles on the power steering bypass so I'm hoping it's good. I just pulled out my modified fuel tank and replaced it with an unmolested one. Thank you Chris H. You can see it cleaned up pretty good Chris. I'm now running a Walbro pump which I hope is a bit more robust than those Impreza pumps.
Then I decided to polish the Fuchs after 2 years. I hadn't noticed the gradual degradation until I hit one with some Mother's. Yea, the nuts look like Hell. I suppose I should get those into the plater this summer.
Wow that did clean up nicely. A radiator shop did that for you? Looks great. So you're up and running with the Walbro? Simple is better with that IMO.
I have done them both ways, and I prefer a Walbro in the tank, keeps it nice and cool, and well, makes it a bit more quite. But then, It is nice hearing the fuel pump running. When I raced I had a simple dash switch for it. Also allowed you to cycle all the heat soaked fuel out of the lines for that 100HP boast you get from cool fuel.
It might really be a 0.001 HP improvement.
Yes I want to know what the Rad Shop used, as I have two tanks to get cleaned up, and sealed.
[quote name='76-914' date='May 29 2017, 11:56 AM' post='2490750']
[/quote] I'll ask him what they used if you'd like, Stephan. The reason I went with the external pump was to see if the old pump was heating the gas. My gas tank was getting hot as Hell so I wanted to see if the pump or the radiator was heating the gas. The 914 tank is not exposed to the cooling air rushing beneath it like a regular tank. My thought was: if the tank can't shed the heat from the pump how will it cool the pump and not continually heat the gas? I'm probably wrong as usual but I'll figure it out eventually. One thing I've learned over the years; When faced with inexperience tenacity is your best friend.
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Some cars actually use a fuel cooler to help dissipate heat. I would not want to run the fuel line down the side of the car, but one way to dissipate the heat would be do the same thing, and just run a coil in front of your rad. Fuel heat can become an issue, as we all know from Vapor lock.
I would start placing a temp probe all over the place before I went to the problem of a new pump. I have a feeling your picking up heat soak off your cooling system. Dissimilar temperature items like to merge to a constant stable temperature. Only way to know is to test. I ran a rotary fuel pump mounted to my 911 cross bar about the gravel tray for years with out issue, it was just loud.
Well good to know you and others have experienced this Stephen. I'll report back after the WCR event. If it is still an issue I'll duct the radiator to the wheel wells. I've been tossing around the idea of a canvas duct!
As promised, the results from the WCR trip. I was wrong again. After I eliminated every other possibility things finally make sense. First I want to say why I was adamant that the radiator exhaust wasn't the culprit. I had over 5000 miles on the car before the gas tank began to have this heat soak issue. But in thinking back, I changed radiators March 2015 which is when all this began. I never had this problem with the single core but once I went dual core........whamo! While you wrap your head around that I'll go on to mention that I'm not the first to experience a hot gas tank. I talked with Tony aka Cracker @ WCR at length about this. That's about 5 minutes for a drunk. Anyway he shared some of his past experiences and several of his ideas on this. Before ducting the radiator shroud I decided to take his easiest suggestion; enlarge the openings in the wheel well. Well wait just a damned second..........doesn't this tie right back in with where I left you......why this began with the radiator change out 15 month's ago. These are my thoughts and I'd like to hear yours on this. To quote Cap't Ron, "Now stay with me...." I believe the Celica racing dual core lets more air pass than the old single core Scirocco would did. This excess hot air now looks for other ways out. One of these is past the bulkhead seal, around the tank walls and out the opening below the steering column. Yes, I have the cover in place but it's certainly not air tight. Below are the pics showing the taped border area where I cut to enlarge the opening in the wheel wells. I'll drive it until I can determine if it is cured. If not then the radiator hoses get rerouted beneath the car and a plenum shall be made. More on this later. I'm coming up on 10,000 mile and believe this albeit the most recent problem, is the last of my Gremlins.
Now you jinxed the whole deal.
This is what concerns me if the tank is getting hot. The hoses are very close to it on both sides. Can't hurt to wrap those with some insulated wrap or sleeves.
I'm thinking your right Stephen but hoping your wrong. I'm prepared to duct it but thought I'd try opening up the wheel wells a bit first. BTW, I think Chris was saying that 20% is the rule but if I was going to increase the opening by a factor of 2 I'd be just fine. How's your project coming along? Kent
I've put this off for long enough. I tried driving "the proverbial" square plug in a round hole long enough. I should have done this long ago but chose to eliminate the other possibilities first. My mistake.
Before I go on I want to pass on a condensed version of my thinking and failures leading up to this. If you didn't already know, my gas tank has been getting hot and manifesting itself into at least two other problems. There may be others that haven't reared their ugly heads yet. When the tank reached "X" temp i.e. hot to the touch I could feel the metal dash and it would be hot. This in turn made it damned uncomfortable to ride in any ambient temp greater than 40F. Within minutes of feeling the hot air emanate from the dash the fuel pressure would drop from 42psi to less than 10psi at which point it would stall. After letting the tank cool down I would repeat the process.
What confused me was that I had nearly 5000 miles on the Odo before this problem surfaced. Hmmm. What could have happened that might have caused this? I remembered changing the fuel pump after it conked out and immediately surmised that the new pump was heating the tank. Why didn't the old one do this? I don't know and failed to ask myself this all important question. My solution; change out the heavily modified 914 gas tank and replace it with a stock tank and larger Walbro pump to meet the 3 liter'e appetite. I completed that change about 1 week before WCR2017. I've learned not to put much faith into my diagnostic abilities so I towed the 914 to WCR. Good call because my efforts were in vein. Just ask Wes. We sat in the heat on the side of the road for 2 hours whilst it cooled. Thank God I wasn't carrying that day or I'd have taken that SOB out back and shot it. Back on track. What changed that caused my gas tank to heat? Then I remembered and as posted here earlier, I had changed from a single core Scirocco radiator to the favored Celica dual core racing type when this "heated gas tank" conundrum began. Btw, that is a Hell of a good radiator. In error I believed the newer radiator was more free flowing and allowed more heat to saturate the tank but that thinking was flawed. The same amount of heated water at "X" temp was passing thru the new radiator as the old. I now believe (or should I say, "This time I think it is.....) it was a simple matter of inlet area > outlet area. When I drilled out the front wheel wells I made the exhaust area 40% larger than the opening for the radiator. Right before I changed out the radiator I increased the inlet opening hoping for some relief from over heating. For some reason this evaded the limits of my memory until this weekend.
No loss. I'm ducting this thing and putting it to bed once and for all. In order to duct the radiator I will have to make a couple of PITA changes. The first change I've been anticipating. Change out the radiator lines that presently run thru the longs in favor of the bit larger 1 3/8" hose fitted beneath the car. The second will be rerouting or replacement of the AC lines in the frunk. These 2 things will clean up the frunk allowing the duct. I had bounced around a few ideas on materials and ultimately settled on Aluminum for all the usual reasons. I still had a few sheets of 2024 laying around so I decided to start throwing some metal at it. I have some E Glass on hand but I believe it will ultimately be faster to Fab it than Dab it.
This is where I'm presently at. My target outlet area is 180" sq.;90" sq per side. This is a pic of my template.
Left side roughly outlined with some tape. The wire looms are very close to the lower left corner but should work.
Right side. Same thing except I've got the AC hoses to deal with here. Notice the AC bulkhead fittings at the lower right corner? outlet frame is beginning to take form here as well.
And a few more with the side attach pieces mounted to the radiator outlets. This design will have two plenums. One for each side. More pic's to come once things cool down here. 105F yesterday; 103F today!
Attached image(s)
Why divide the center? Just wondering are your fans staged? I think your making this a bit to complicated.
But then that is the pot calling the kettle black.
Baby steps. It happens every time I design and build simultaneously.
Paper template for bottom tray piece being fitted:
The bottom piece now cut, positioned and clecoed in place.
The piece in front of the radiator hose connection is an access cover and will be held in place with SS screws rather than rivets. The top piece which will be removable for service and access is next. It will surely by a Royal PITA as there are multiple angles that need to meet.
That made it more clear keep up the work
This is pretty cool. I purchased the aluminum to do something like this a while ago. Looks like I will be riding your coat tails yet again. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting Kent!
I like it! I think the divide is important so the flow goes the right way and doesnt disrupt. I think this will help a lot!!!
Personally I would have used expanding foam to make a template, shape it to fix and fiberglass it. But your way works
I hated that it needed to be designed this way but as sure as God made little Green Apples had I not done it ...........well you know.
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What? That it wouldn't have rained in Indianapolis in the summertime??
Also you can make the base foundation from chickenwire or some other extremely maluable substrate. I might do that on mine, either foam the wire and smooth or lay the first layer with cloth.
More baby steps and it's slowly coming together. This is the biggest part I could put together and still be able to remove it. The remainder will be pop riveted or screwed together.
This is the piece I made to square up that weird angle on the flange at the wheel well. Also a few shots of it's template.
With the small gusset in place the top piece can be a flat sheet.
Because of the off center outlet on the Celica radiator I had some side stepping to do. I used 2 Goodyear #60083 1.25" extended 90's and shortened one to make it a plain 90, attached the two and dodged a bullet.
Made this copper coupling piece so I could have the line exposed once the plenum is in place.
The left fan is re-fitted for what I hope is a very long time. A 3/4 x .125 piece of angle is riveted to the back wall so the top piece has several attach points.
Then the top piece is cut and attached to check fit. The clecoes will remain in place during initial testing. I had planned on installing plate nuts with countersunk SS screws but now I'm leaning towards pop rivets. I can drill those out faster than I can remove those soft SS screws. I need to install and connect the new coolant lines before I build the right side plenum.
Pieces are all cut and mated. Just need to remount the fan and a general clean up before reassembling. I'll silicone inside where skin surfaces are joined to make it air tight. However, I can't go further until some A/C and radiator hose fittings arrive. Should be this week. Here are a few pics in the rough to give you a general idea of the shape. I'll post the final product and some measurements if anyone wants them.
You're NOT putting a Japanese engine in a German car, are you?
nice duct work BUT i thought the consensus was that suby did not require much air flow.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=196107&hl=opening
jim
Looks great Kent!
Well done Kent! So the real question is. Did it fix the heat issue with your tank?
Thx Ray. AC fittings finally arrived and so I was able to button everything up . Here are a few pics of the finished product. Jamie. I won't know for a week or so.
I've driven the car about 5 times since completing the new duct work. Usually for about an hour at a time with temps ranging 87-92F. The gas tank has remained cool to the touch after all test drives, so far. After this evenings drive I touched the metal ducts and the right side was hotter than the left. I wonder if that Celica dual core radiator passes the water thru one side before the other? I also installed a new fan controller today so it may be that the right fan was the only fan activated. I'll install some small LEDs to show when the fans are running. I can't hear them and I don't want them running when on the hi way. My old Derale controller ate it so I replaced it with this Dakota unit. I've always been pleased their attention to quality and am thus far happy with this purchase. They require a dry cool climate so I located it next to the fuse panel. It's programable too; whether you have 1 or 2 fans; 1 speed, 2 speed or variable speed fans as well. Can use your engines temp sender and gage or get the info from your ECU with the $40 adapter. One advantage of this methods is the controller knows your speed and will shut down the fans on the hi way when connected to the ECU. I went the simple route with a single sender. I may have some in/out parameters to dial in but so far so good. The real test comes tomorrow. I will be on the 15 S 80 mph in 92F+ and I'll be running the AC. Hopefully I'll make Cruising Grand. I've had to abort enroute to the last 2 events.
This is the 12v spade connector that supplied the old controller.
Remnants of the old relay. Notice the residue on the male spades? It's melted circuit board.
The new controller mounted
Very nice,
Looking at it, I see an A/C terminal. This traditional is used to run a fan to pull air through the A/C condenser even if your coolant is not up to temp. Not sure if you need to hook it up or not. Here in humid Ohio, yeah I would hook it up.
Best of luck on the trip and let us know how it goes.
Well, the trip was a smashing success. When I left Temecula it was 90 something degrees. I ran 80mph (that is the minimum speed limit in SoCal) with the AC blasting and the fans never even came on. Temp stayed centered, which it always has, but the big news is the gas tank was cool to the touch. The return trip was the same speed but temps were down about 6-8F and I didn't use the AC. Same result. Cool gasoline. Now the fuel pressure hasn't dropped below 49psi since the fuel is no longer piping hot. My cabin is now much cooler too. I think I can finally put this major PITA to bed. That was an 18 month long puzzle. Unless there is a Gremlin hiding somewhere this car is basically finished sans a paint job. Everything now runs together harmoniously.
Elliot once asked me whether it was more difficult to build this car than it was to build an airplane. Now that it is finally "ironed out" I can say that it was positively more difficult to build this car than the airplane. There will be the usual maintenance items but nothing worth posting in this build thread. If I discover anything that doesn't work I'll mention it here. Other than editing some of my boo boos out of this thread I'll ask Andy to move this thread and call it a wrap. Thanks to everyone that contributed to this build.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Move the thread? Car is done? None of this is making sense to me! Maybe I drive a completely different type of project then you? Done? Is that possible? I thought without consistent tinkering a 914 will progress to its natural state of rest on jackstands? Say it isn't so!
Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. It has all kinds of useful info for the Subie swap project car my step son and I will be building.
Great thread Kent!
So I read through it and noticed you went from the 3/4 and 7/8 rubber lines to the metal 1.25” lines, but couldn’t find exactly in the thread you made the change.
What was your experience with the smaller lines?
What was the issue with the smaller lines that motivated you to change to the larger ones, and did the larger ones fix the issue?
Thanks man
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=21994 At times, ignorance reigns supreme. Here is the condensed version. When I went to a larger radiator I thought it a good idea to enlarge the front opening. In doing so I increased the incoming air volume/pressure to the point that it began heating the gas in the gas tank. Ignorance helped me overlook my mistake and told me the radiator was getting too hot although the temp gage never moved off dead center. Ignorance took my hand and convinced me that the fuel pump was cooking the gas so out came the tank and another was installed with an external pump. Didn't help a bit. Again, ignorance convinced me to changed out the lines to a larger size but the gas tank was still getting hot and causing vapor lock. It was too hot to touch sometimes! Finally I ducted the radiator exhaust out the wheel wells and Viola, success.
There was absolutely no temperature or performance differences noted between the small hoses vs the larger hose. I'd also like to mention that contrary to what I'd heard, running the hoses thru the longs did not transfer any heat into the cabin or sidewalls.
What I learned: 1) Don't violate the 20% rule e.g. the exit area should be 20% larger than the intake area. 2) Duct the radiator if you can. Then the cabin will remain as cool as it did before the H20 conversion. I have a V-8 conversion that allows hot air to enter the cabin, albeit minor. I've ridden in other conversions that also allow unwanted heat in the cabin. I will say that if the top is removed it isn't as noticeable.
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