Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

914World.com _ 914World Garage _ '73 Resto & Suby 6 Conversion

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 9 2013, 10:21 PM

What's it been? A year since I got Blackie running. I finally get it tuned to a daily driver status and should have been happy as a Lark then but what do I do? I sold the engine (w/90 hour's on the Hobbs) on the last Dawn Patrol GMR run. So I pulled the engine and began preparing Blackie for her transformation.
Attached Image

Before I go any further check out my Jack Stands. Min height 19.5", 12 ton and should hold up to a 6.7 quake or direct nuclear attack.
Attached Image

And out she comes.
Attached Image

Attached Image

One thing you have to love about these cars is that you can remove an interior in 15 minutes. 30 min's if you have a console. This was one shot before the interior is gutted.
Attached Image
and an hour later I'm scraping tar floorboards.
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 9 2013, 10:22 PM

So after a couple of hours this is what I found beneath the tar. biggrin.gif A little surface rust that should brush off with a cup brush. I did not skin the tunnel as it is above any suspect areas and I have looked inside the tunnel before with a camera. The two floorboards together yielded 9.8 lb's of tar.
Attached ImageAttached ImageAttached Image[attachmentid=359
666]Attached ImageAttached Image


Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 9 2013, 10:33 PM

So the pans look great but look what I found. I had heard that these engine/firewall blankets were nothing but a water trap and now I'm a believer. I guess I should be happy that this is as bad as it gets. Just a little more sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif . BTW, is the firewall 16 or 18ga? Here are 2 pic's of the R side:
Attached ImageAttached Image

And the R side:
Attached ImageAttached Image



It's going to be colder than a well diggers ass in January the next few days so I may lay off the car a few days but after it's cleaned, primed it's time for the Engman Kit.

Posted by: '73-914kid Jan 9 2013, 11:40 PM

Only 90 hours on the engine..? I think I have somewhere around 230 hours on my engine since you gave me that hobbs meter, and I've had the meter installed for half as long as the motor was in your car.. wacko.gif


Good to see you making progress on this though Kent. I want a ride once it's finished smile.gif

Posted by: mrbubblehead Jan 9 2013, 11:57 PM

Whats your plan Kent?

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 10 2013, 10:13 AM

Plan? I knew I forgot something, laugh.gif The plan, quite simply put, is more power.
A 6 cyl, most likely a 3.3 Suby as SVX's are plentiful and cheap or 3.0 with a Suby 5-6 speed trans, A/C and a suspension upgrade in a narrow bodied sleeper. I'm not ruling out a 3.2 w/ Motronic but I doubt one of those is going to land on my plate. Keep in mind that I have CSOB eating habits. The other part of my plan is to educate myself and to have fun while I'm doing it. I look at my '73 as a blank slate awaiting my decision. But no matter which route I go I need to install this Engman kit and some of RacerChris' reinforcement parts.

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 12 2013, 09:17 PM

Before the fitting can happen I need to locate the weld areas so they can be cleaned and prepped. A black felt tip works but a white one would have been better with a black paint job. shades.gif

Attached Image

I needed to remove a bit of the polyurethane foot material now or put the fire out later.

Attached Image

With all the weld areas marked it is just a matter of hitting it with a steel cup brush.

Attached Image

Just about then Ceasar (phatt911)pulls up with Dave (silverinsocal) and his brother-in-law to help me with my conversion. You see, I needed to sell my 4 cylinder as I now have no use for it. Beside it was time. I had 90.2 hr's on it since rebuild. lol-2.gif av-943.gif No worries. I enjoy the build more than the ride. And with all this new work I should be one happy guy for the next year or so. smile.gif So adios engine y vaya con Dios, Ceasar.

Attached Image
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 12 2013, 09:18 PM

So, weld areas are sanded, cleaned and hit with some Weld thru Primer.
Attached ImageAttached ImageAttached Image

Now the pieces can begin to be fitted. All seam sealer needs to be removed before they fit correctly. And in my case just a tad bit of trimming of the piece(s).
Attached ImageAttached ImageAttached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 12 2013, 09:38 PM

There are places that need to be bent or formed and it looks like I will need to do a few spot welds before I begin manipulating the pieces for final fit. The parts are pre cut to allow easy bending and forming. You can see the slots in the pieces that allow this.
Attached ImageAttached ImageAttached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 12 2013, 09:45 PM

Nice work and pictures. Keep 'em coming please.

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 14 2013, 07:44 AM

Awesome. I need to do an Engman kit myself. You'll be ahead of me in a week!

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 14 2013, 09:31 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Jan 14 2013, 05:44 AM) *

Awesome. I need to do an Engman kit myself. You'll be ahead of me in a week!

I think not. Your way ahead of me. Hey Chris, IYDM, how much did your 3.3 and related goodies cost? Are you going MR 2 or Mitsu for your shifter?

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 14 2013, 11:29 AM

Sure no prob. I have learned that no matter how cheap you think it will be ...it will always fall into line with most other options.

The car was $600. It was mechanically great but cosmetically not so good. I was able to drive it home which was a plus. Most important thing is to listen and observe the engine...when you start it, it should idle about 1500 or so, then settle to a very even idle of 800ish. Watch the temp and look under it for leaks. You should be able to tell if it's strong or not. Expect to change the seals unless you get lucky like BIGKAT and find one that is practically new. These leak oil just like 911 engines after a while.

At this point the stuff has totaled:

Car - $600
WRX Trans and flywheel - $800
coldwaterconversions stuff (everything but the hard engine mounts) $1375
Custom exhaust and related goodies, plus another mount - $350
Engine seals, timing belt, spark plugs, etc ~$400ish
1990-1992 Honda Accord shifter - $40 shipped

Still need radiator hoses, cable shift linkage, cables, some CV joints, a clutch disc, slave cylinder, etc. Probably another $800 or so.

Keep in mind that you can part out the SVX and recoup some costs. All of the small stuff can be sold (switches, controls, mirrors, interior stuff, lenses). The differentials, axles/cv's and most importantly a good trans are worth $. Also the leather interiors are very desirable. SVXWorld.com is a good place to sell stuff. Just wait til I am done biggrin.gif (Kidding, it doesn't matter there are several part-outs on there now). A metal scrapper paid $150 for the shell. I'll sell my current TIV engine, side shift trans, linkage, etc. (hey side shift conversion people!)and should be looking pretty good. I will also do a 5 lug conversion. Already bought the wheels. Got a great line on the rest as well... I figure the net will be $6k ish...so let's call it $12k. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

The cool thing about the SVX is it's very powerful in stock form so you can use most of the stock components as well as the niceties like air cond, real heater, etc. You can also use the fuel pump which makes it convenient. And they are pretty cheap. They are extremely similar to 914's. Manufactured roughly the same number of years, quirky but cool, a little too expensive when new, all years are identical shells with small cosmetic revisions each year. They are in the same place 914's were in the late '90's...lots of part-outs, not a lot of love, small following of fanatics... weird....


Posted by: 76-914 Jan 14 2013, 12:32 PM

Thx Chris. Great info. I didn't know about the Honda shifter so I'll be watching your thread. Bigcat is a wealth of info for sure. I'll end up PM'ing him to death before this is over. lol-2.gif

Edit: ordered the 5" firewall section from Restoration Design. I'm glad they are an active member here because that "shipping quoted after the sale" would have scared the crap out of me, otherwise.

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 14 2013, 01:33 PM

Yeah even if mine takes too long and costs too much it's been worth it to get to know so many talented people.

Good luck with the firewall replacement. At least you found it before it did any damage to the floors.

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jan 14 2013, 06:38 PM

You actually trust those jack stands?? screwy.gif

Posted by: Dasnowman Jan 14 2013, 10:06 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jan 12 2013, 07:38 PM) *

There are places that need to be bent or formed and it looks like I will need to do a few spot welds before I begin manipulating the pieces for final fit. The parts are pre cut to allow easy bending and forming. You can see the slots in the pieces that allow this.
Attached ImageAttached ImageAttached Image

Attached Image



How are you going to weld it to prevent unibody warping and the gaps getting mis-aligned?

I was thinking of just doing the spot and stitch welding. ar15.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 19 2013, 09:25 PM

Now that this Artic cold spell has passed I was able to get a few hours in towards installing the stiffies. I think that sounds current, don't you? I mean no one says vegetables anymore. It's always veggies. So why should they be called stiffners. I suppose one would have to be careful and reference each as a "right or left' stiffie while never using the generic term "a long stiffie". I decided before I began welding I should prep the floors for paint. I pulled the pedal assm and it was junky looking but not as bad as it looks here. It will clean up nicely should it be needed.
Attached Image

The pedal area had a little surface rust but it's a bitch to grind in that area so I phosfo'd it after a light brushing and then shot some primer/sealer on it.
Attached ImageAttached ImageAttached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 19 2013, 09:26 PM

A few shots of the rear stiffie after most of the welds on the face but before the top piece is bent over and welded.
Attached Image
Attached Image

And after the top tab is bent and welded in a few more spots. That's as far as I'm going today but there will be a few more welds/grinding then on to the "right long stiffie".

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Jan 19 2013, 09:35 PM

OK this is the first time I have seen this thread and I have to say it........don't climb under the car on those jack stands!! blink.gif

This is a must read! http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=70117&st=0

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 20 2013, 11:40 AM

QUOTE(Jeffs9146 @ Jan 19 2013, 07:35 PM) *

OK this is the first time I have seen this thread and I have to say it........don't climb under the car on those jack stands!! blink.gif

This is a must read! http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=70117&st=0

Yea, I read that. Did you read this? http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=139114&hl= Besides these jacks stands, fully collapsed, are 19.5" which would allow for me and a most of my tools. biggrin.gif Thanks for looking out for me though. beerchug.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 20 2013, 10:05 PM

I got around to welding on the r&l long stiffners before I ran out of wire. First thing was to get it supported on the killer jack stands. These were perfect because I wasn't under the car and they are low enough that I can get my ancient ass in & out when welding.
Attached Image

Next was to level it. I used the bubble and the electronic app. Both work great.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

I then marked 3 spots on each door and measured the gaps before I began welding onto the longs.

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 20 2013, 10:06 PM

When I was banging around bracing the panels with 2 x's I knocked the big urethane floorboard piece loose. I was going to work around it if possible just to preserve that OG floor so this is a plus.
Attached Image

A little more scraping with the razor. mineral spirits to remove the old glue and remaining tar and this too will be clean in 20 min's.
Attached Image

Talk about Engman Quality. Look at the fit between the rear and left piece.

Attached Image

Same view but tacked up

Attached Image

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 20 2013, 10:10 PM


Nice work man! piratenanner.gif

John

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 20 2013, 10:23 PM

Here is another view of the same corner but with the top of the corner piece now formed to meet the rounded corner.

Attached Image

A close up of that "formed" piece. Me thinks beat to death is more appropriate.

Attached Image

And this is where I'm at until I get by the welding shop and restock my .023.

Attached Image

That bottom right hole that is blown wasn't cleaned headbang.gif so I'll move left 3mm and tack it in the seam where it is clean.
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 22 2013, 09:01 PM

I finally finished the welding of the Engman kit. I didn't purty it up for these pic's. I still need to grind down a few welds, vacuum and prime the bare spots. It looks like Hell now but a little Wurth's and some paint will clean it up. I'm glad that I ran out of the .023 because I also bought some .030 and had much better results on the longs w/ the .030. Faster = less heat. Doors shut just as sweet as before. It's back on the ground. Into the Hell Hole and on to the firewall patch next. I need to clean up some p/o welds around the hinges and battery tray. I think they attempted arc welding. Looks like a mud dabbers nest. lol-2.gif I guess I had better start thinking cooling while I'm in the cut n patch mode. idea.gif

Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 24 2013, 10:13 PM

and
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image

Posted by: jimkelly Jan 25 2013, 03:52 AM

fantastic pics aktion035.gif

do you plan to seam seal the entire perimeter and perferations? popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 25 2013, 01:24 PM

Thx Jim, and yes I have some Wurth's seam sealer that will go on before I paint it.

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 25 2013, 01:51 PM

Just got off the phone after discussing metal shrinkage with Ceasar (phatt911) and realized that this might be of some use to those considering a stiffner kit. As shown in an earlier pic, I measured the door gap at 3 equidistant locations on both doors prior to any welding on the long portions. I did NOT brace the door but did this instead. After leveling (and that is a trick) the car I would weld 3 spots (front, middle and rear to keep the weld spots spread out) on one side and then move to the other side and repeat. Never welding any area unless the metal was cool enough to place my dinkus upon. If additional time was needed I would do some grinding instead. After 6 or 8 welds on each side I would check the door gaps again. I welded all of the vertical spots (or sides) before doing the tops. The shrinkage that I experienced was .37mm after welding the sides. After welding the top portions the shrinkage increased to 1mm nominally. Or .63mm. Amazing! Half the area and half as many holes as the sides, yet twice the shrinkage. I had suspected this might be the case and had therefor left the top on during construction just in case. I think that bracing the door is the more prudent action but I like to test the water for myself from time to time and these are my results. Disclaimer: Your results will probably vary. smoke.gif

Posted by: andys Jan 25 2013, 02:04 PM

Here are my before and after dimensions. Red is after, units are in inches. The lower parts of the door gap didn't change much, so I omitted those.

Andys




Attached image(s)
Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 25 2013, 05:40 PM

Similar results. Within .01" (.027mm) +/- of each other. beerchug.gif

Posted by: eric9144 Jan 25 2013, 06:01 PM

popcorn[1].gif This should make the Dawn Patrols more interesting, now we're all going to have "stiffy" envy blink.gif av-943.gif

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 26 2013, 07:28 AM

Top notch details on the Engman install. Thanks a lot for posting.

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 26 2013, 07:01 PM

So I started with the firewall patch/repair today. Here is the psg side before cutting.

Attached Image

and this was the drv side

Attached Image

some beginning cuts removing just the rust areas and then enlarging the cuts in preparation for final trimming.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image


Posted by: 76-914 Jan 26 2013, 07:01 PM

lfjuysblfc

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: stateofidleness Jan 27 2013, 12:33 AM

*subscribed*

in the same boat. i'll take all the knowledge i can get! (never touched a welder before.. got one for christmas. this'll be my first "small" project with it)

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 1 2013, 06:10 PM

So while I wait for the "correct" size of steel to patch the firewall I thought I would clean up the engine compartment and see if I could find anymore rust. There is a bunch of the old mat stuck to it..........

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

And this looks a little suspicious. Rivets and a rough finish on the panel.

Attached Image

Then there is the matter of this booger by the PO.

Attached Image

So I drill out the rivets and look what I find. Has anyone seen these before. Obviously stamped steel so mfg'd by someone.

Attached Image

Once they're out this is all that was left of the tray. The pedestal was in good shape but I doubt I will relo a batt here.

Attached Image

Couple of pic's while getting cleaned. These holes need to be welded up

Attached Image

And a small patch here

Attached Image

Attached Image

One booger mostly ground down

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 1 2013, 06:10 PM

%90 clean. A little more here and there then patch n prime. The side wall behind the batt cleaned up pretty good, too. A little pitted so it will be treated to a phospho shower.

Attached Image

The rest has cleaned up quite well.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 3 2013, 06:15 PM

So I need to fill some holes where the batt tray was riveted to the panel. If you look closely you can see the copper spoon thru the holes.

Attached Image

and now they're ground down and gone

Attached Image

a shot of primer to ward off the rust gods

Attached Image

Here is another spot that needs to be filled. Oops, chair.gif I need to re-size these pic's and continue in the next post.

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 3 2013, 06:15 PM

future

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 3 2013, 07:50 PM

OK so here we go again. This is the area behind the drivers behind. Immediately to the right of this pic is the pull tube attach for the engine lid release. More on that later.

Attached Image

Another look at it from below, looking up. See the crack of light? No you can't because it's the last pic in this post. Don't know how I did that but could'nt correct it. lol

The backup spoon in place..........

Attached Image

Another look at it from the cabin side this time. Flash really puts a tinge to the color. Anyway you can clearly see the copper in the pic.

Attached Image

In this pic you can see where the crack was filled and ground down (on the left side). See the "V" area to the right that has rusted away. Imagine that area going another 1" down and that is how far the rust traveled on the back side. This area is close to that pull tube which gets a lot of work so I want to reinforce this area.

Attached Image

In order to do this I need to make a pattern.....

Attached Image

And a piece of .045".

Attached Image

The pattern is taped in place and traced onto the steel piece.

Attached Image

Attached Image

A quick cut out. This piece will be trimmed and edges polished with 3M wheel before it is welded in place.

Attached Image

Initial fitting.........

Attached Image

See the saw blade? It's laying on what is left of the old flange. It does 2 things. It gives an accurated location for a bend reference and #2, with a little movement it will scribe your piece for you.

Attached Image

With the piece scribed (I marked the scribes w/felt tip to show in the pic's) we are ready to mark the bend line. I thought we just did? slap.gif Well close. Our mark is where we want the bottom of our flange to end up, right? To get there accurately we have to take a couple of things into account. The thickness of our metal and the bend radius. In this case the metal is .047" and the bend radius is .0675". Add those 2 numbers together, subtract them from your reference line and mark your bend line.

Attached Image

Years ago I did this and you might also. These cheap Chinese vices are good for something. It's quite easy to radius "one" jaw with a file, quickly. It can be done with a long file in <5 min's and won't effect future operations. Notice the jaw on the left is radius-ed. This next part isn't important unless you want it to fit so pay attention. Notice the feeler gage. The base of it is aligned with the scribe mark on the new bend line. You cannot see it but it is at the top of the fat lower ink line which is for illustration. The point is that the bend line "must" be aligned with the top of the jaw(or bottom of feeler gage).

Attached Image

I'm using a piece of hardwood but it could be a piece of square tube as well. But I slowly hammer it down being careful to not let the wood piece rise as it is tapped. BTW, anything longer than this would require my brake but his is < 6" so no biggie.

Attached Image


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 3 2013, 08:18 PM

Here we see it taking shape..

Attached Image

Now it is almost flat or at a 90' angle but that's as far as it is going here because of "springback" so I remove it now. Yes, I see the edge needs trimming.

Attached Image

Here is the piece out of the vice, Just needs some weld holes drilled into it.

Attached Image

And fitted into place

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

And welded in place

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: Socalandy Feb 3 2013, 08:46 PM

Looking good Kent but who is this jester for? or were you showing the metal who's boss


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 6 2013, 11:37 PM

Hah, good one Andy! Just trying to hold it for the pic. I finally received the 20 ga metal today. First time they shipped 17 ga, oops. Anyway they were great about it. Bobco metals in LA. They are on the net and ship. Remember this? The psg side

Attached Image

and the drvrs side

Attached Image

Here is a shot of the psg side pattern being traced

Attached Image

with the flash off you can see what I see, easy enough to trace out

Attached Image

this is the first rough cut of the drvr side firewall patch piece

Attached Image

The piece placed against the firewall to check overall fit and mark for trim

Attached Image

Attached Image

and a compound curve

Attached Image

Attached Image

this is one of my CSOB tools I made out of water pump pliers and an old lawn mower blade years ago. with the piece firmly clamped a piece of .050" (6160) aluminum which is radiused, shown in the next pic, is driven into the steel right next to the fixture holding it. This is what created the raised portion that was necessary to meet the existing material

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

starting to take shape

Attached Image



Attached Image


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 6 2013, 11:37 PM

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

and the pass side, not much to it

Attached Image

a little grinding and a little primer then it's on to the radiator

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 7 2013, 04:59 PM

Well, with the rust repair (I think) behind me it's time to move on to the new water cooling system. I've ordered twin fan set up from EBay (thx for the tip BigKat) that I will use to begin some initial mock ups. For $45 incl shpg I can't go too wrong. If the size works I'll order a radiator to match. After a lot of reading I've decided to go the rubber hose route. Originally I believed that I wanted to run copper behind the valance thru the gussets but I thought I should avoid the plating process dry.gif . While waiting for something to cool or dry I gave this a try with pleasing results. I know where I'm running my hoses now. piratenanner.gif


Attached Image

Attached Image

I also will be ducting thru the wheels but noticed a dent/crease on the R side. I know that area will be hacked but I needed to know if this was under stress before I began removing any material. The floor pan beneath the spare is beat to shit from bottoming out but I wasn't sure if it was a result of impact so hence my concern for the dent. It's hard to see in these pic's but the area is outlined in blue tape.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

And here is my body tool. A 12lb sledge hammer with a piece of foam insulation duct taped on the end to soften the blow.

Attached Image

And just then my neighbor who has a dentless repair business walked in and said "What are you doing?" I said, "waiting for you". He told me that I probably would have stretched it and ended up with a bow going the other way. Talk about falling in a bucket of stromberg.gif and coming out smelling like a rose. bootyshake.gif Took him all of 2 min's. This is Jeremy pray.gif

Attached Image

I asked Blackie if she was happy with her makeover. I think she approves. biggrin.gif

Attached Image





Posted by: 76-914 Feb 24 2013, 07:58 PM

It's been too long so I'll post what I have. I've held back because the first fan assm has a bad bearing on one of the units and I ordered the wrong replacement headbang.gif Jesus H. Anyway the radiator is held up in the snow storm so I went with "what I got" for now. I placed to fan unit for a quick birds eye view. Looks doable. Thanks for the tip BigCat. I went with your radiator suggestion too but it's not arrived.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

My plan ( I'm playing like I know what I'm doing happy11.gif ) is to seal or box off the area immediately between the headlights to serve as a plenum of sorts. A quick temp install of the fans show they'll clear the sides enough.

Attached Image

In order to do this the "box" must be reasonably sealed and here are a few lightning holes on these ribs that need to be sealed with the cardboard templates attached.

Attached Image

Attached Image

A few more but with the templates for the side pieces that will double as seals and attach points, I think smoke.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 24 2013, 08:18 PM

A few blanks Wurther'd into place

Attached Image

Attached Image

Another view

Attached Image

Then the brutalization

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Then back to work. Here are the pieces laid out, first trim, fit in place and awaiting final bends and attach points. But that will have to wait until the radiator arrives.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image




Posted by: 76-914 Feb 24 2013, 08:30 PM

I'm going with a very good heater hose but not anything exorbitant. My heater hoses will not see the light of day so I see no need (at this time) to use green stripe or other big $$$ hoses. I was able to fish a piece thru the long w/o binding or kinking.

Attached Image

The trick is revealed. First fish the heater hose thru this vacuum/pool hose then fish the combination thru while rotating. The external hose has added benefits. It keeps the heater hose from crimping and adds some degree of wear protection to it, also. On final install I will trim the vac hose to conceal it. The metal opening will get a rubber grommet to center the heater hose where it passes thru on both ends. Will help to keep other critters out as well. happy11.gif

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 3 2013, 07:36 PM

I'm glad this part is behind me. I had that thing in and out 50 times. Anywho, this is what I came up with. Let me clarify I; Bigcat suggested the radiator and fan set up. I just put em together. It's an Intrepid fan/s unit and Sirocco radiator. The fan set up is defective and was used as a mock up while a new one is shipped. The 2 are < $150 combined with shipping.

Here is the radiator/fan in it's removable frame.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

A look at the radiator to frame attach point. There are two per side. and yes those are cheese head screws.

Attached Image

A side view of the same shot. That is a faucet washer compressed between the rad post and the frame.

Attached Image

The square 1" legs of the frame will sit over these posts

Attached Image

And the smaller round legs will sit atop these

Attached Image

The square receiver end gets a rubber cushion

Attached Image

With this slightly massage washer to protect the rubber from wearing against the post.

Attached Image

Then the unit is set and held in place by these hitch pins. For future access I will be able to remove all the radiator, shroud, etc. < 10 min's. biggrin.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

And in place

Attached Image

Attached Image




Posted by: Chris H. Mar 4 2013, 10:36 PM

Man you are really moving fast! Great work! smilie_pokal.gif

I'm still re-sealing my 3.3 and doing all the maintenance stuff but hope to be done pretty soon.

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 9 2013, 11:05 AM

Hey thanks, Chris. How's your's coming along? I was busy as Hell last week, didn't get stromberg.gif done so I ended up on page 3. lol-2.gif Got to hit it again yesterday so I did a final fit then welded in the side pieces that should mostly seal the gaps between the radiator and sides. There will be strips of felt or Armorflex between the metal and plastic radiator, eventually.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

This piece will need to be massaged against the wall and then all seams and gaps get sealed with Wurth's at metal to metal junctions.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Then the bottom piece which was done with aluminum for obvious reasons.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image




Posted by: 76-914 Mar 9 2013, 11:06 AM

The top/cover piece slides beneath the rain channel. This piece will be pop riveted in place to facilitate easy removal. Plate nuts, rivenuts or any other kind of nut would not work as the piece slides against the bottom of the channel and anything placed there would obstruct the travel of the cover piece. I'll use blind rivets which will not allow water thru like an ordinary pop rivet would. They're only pennies each and drill out in < 5 seconds each.

Attached Image

Attached Image

I was determined to keep the hood OG (sans Hood pins) so this is how I went about it. These screws will be replaced with black allen head cap screws.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 16 2013, 07:29 PM

Work has been keeping me busy so this is all that I've done. headbang.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 8 2013, 09:23 PM

Time to get the suspension upgraded. I've covered most of this in other threads but I thought I'd at least hit the highlights here so I can relive it from the old age home one day. 1st some 914 porn courtesy of PMB.

Attached Image

Attached Image

I began with the L front. I had done ball joints/tie rods, brakes, etc. previously so shocks were all that were necessary. The old shock was a blown out KYB which accounted for a noise I heard occasionally. When I dropped the new Bilstein it went 90% in and stopped. The old shock was narrow but this new one is fat and binding. Pulled it out and looked inside and found this bit of rust.

Attached Image

Ran a 2" wire fitting brush thru it several times. I even ran a rotary file over the areas that had rust, in case the metal had raised but it still would not fit. stromberg.gif

Attached Image

I discovered that area where it bound was the spot where the brake tab is welded on. It probably took a hit there and PO replaced with these skinny shits as a go around. Anyway, my buddy Ethan had these laying around so I cleaned up the L one and I was back in business.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Bought this little tool to aid in refurbishing the trailing arms.

Attached Image

Pressing out the old bearing from the inside.

Attached Image

And here it is from the other side exiting the arm.

Attached Image

New poly bushings going in

Attached Image

Final assembly of the trailing arm

Attached Image

A few installed (less brakes) pics. Rear brake caliper rebuild is next.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image


Attached image(s)
Attached Image Attached Image

Posted by: JRust Apr 8 2013, 10:18 PM

I would not recommend running your radiator lines through the heater ducts int he long. It's great coming from the engine bay. Not so great inside where it goes up & over by the gas tank. Just adds another high spot to your lines. Makes it damn near impossible to get all the air out of the line.

I had considered opening the long inside near the front just before the heater duct goes up. Then adding a small boxed in area at the passenger feet keeping the hose flat & going through right above the steering rack. Just thinking though.

I had my lines originally run through the heater ducts. Never got it to cool properly until I ran the lines under the car. I don't love the lines there but it has literally never been a problem with them down there. You progress is looking great

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 9 2013, 08:48 AM

Hey Jamie, poke.gif I thought of you last week when my Triton engine blew the spark plug out of #3. lol-2.gif hissyfit.gif I hope that I don't have to run the lines beneath the car but I would if necessary. BTW, I'm going beneath the fuel tank. This might be SOT but I read about these high spots causing a problem because of the air that gets trapped and wondered if this might be a solution in some cases. For 50+ years the Heating and AC trades have used a Hoffman #89 Air Vent to correct this. Most boiler systems and all chill water systems employee these valves. Installed on the high point of any system it will vent out any air in the system, always and automatically. (I might be off one digit on the Hoffman #. It might be a #88. Senility sad.gif ) Sent some more $$$$ to Eric Shea's retirement fund yesterday. smash.gif

Posted by: AZ914 Apr 9 2013, 09:40 AM

Kent,
Maybe ping member 914GT.. he ran his lines for his Chevy conversion under the car but used iron pipe, so there was no chance of it ripping open. They were ran up the indentations on the floor panel.

Posted by: Chris H. Apr 9 2013, 09:59 AM

That was an excellent build! I'm bouncing between that idea and putting the hoses in the longs...Hurry up and find an engine Kent! biggrin.gif popcorn[1].gif popcorn[1].gif popcorn[1].gif

PS - My clutch stuff is coming Thursday. aktion035.gif


Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Apr 9 2013, 10:20 AM

Here's an idea for the under car hoses.

Attached Image



Bob

Posted by: Chris H. Apr 9 2013, 02:52 PM

Love it Bob. Really cool alternative.

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Apr 9 2013, 04:01 PM

This is a car from Canada that is posted on a picture site. Its very nice. It has power steering and brakes.
The pictures are about 10 yrs old.


Bob

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 9 2013, 10:04 PM

Chris, I've done everything but chant. Maybe I'll go see Miss Rudolf to get this mojo off my ass. And once I find an engine or donor car the flood gates will open and there will be 10 good deals that I could have waited on. headbang.gif I just keep finding some thing else to do while I wait.
Bob, I had heard of that but if I went beneath the car I would run rubber hose. I would rather face a problem with repairing the hose than with welding that up in BFE (which is where it always happens biggrin.gif ). + it's got to weight 45 lb's. I wanted to ask if you had any clearance problems between the radiator hose and tie rod. Or, I think that's the route you showed in a pic. confused24.gif

Posted by: Chris H. Apr 10 2013, 06:27 AM

914GT attached the pipes in a pretty unique way...his thread seems to have vanished though. I'll try to find the pics. Seemed very sturdy.

Kent, the sources I would scour if you want an SVX are:

Craigslist
http://www.subaru-svx.net
http://www.svxworldforums.com

And e-bay and the local classifieds. Get a whole car if you can so you don't have to wonder if you have all the stuff you need, plus you can drive it to make sure it runs well. Most seem to be listed for a lot more than what someone would sell it for RIGHT NOW WITH CASH. If you find one let me know, I can tell you what parts to keep. Not every part is worth $ like a teener.

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 24 2013, 09:34 PM

I haven't posted here for a few days and thought that I had better get busy. If I'm doing the suspension I may as well do the brakes. I had previously done the fronts and now is the time for the rears. Check out Old Crusty. Not the Cap't., the caliper.....

Attached Image

So after dis assembly I'm left with this mess.....

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

one dirty Ebrake return spring......

Attached Image

one clean spring, BTW, I cleaned this spring in < 2 min's (and many other brake parts) with a $5 3/4" copper fitting brush which I sawed the wooden handle off of and then chucked it into my bench top drill press.

Attached Image

the brake lines were held with rubber jaws in the vise while I cleaned them with some sand cloth.

Attached Image

5 min's later

Attached Image

some Shea stuff

Attached Image

Attached Image

a little dab of self etching primer after parts are cleaned

Attached Image

a little paint. the red is a VHT caliper paint whilst the silver is.......well it's silver

Attached Image

some shiny parts

Attached Image

and one dress rehearsal before final assembly

Attached Image

and in place

Attached Image

EDIT: If an Admin drops in would you pls remove the last two pics that I somehow added as an attachment and cannot remove. TIA, kent


Attached image(s)
Attached Image Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 25 2013, 05:38 PM

Look what landed in my garage yesterday. Couldn't believe it happened so fast. Let me back up. 22 March I joined CoParts with the 30 day free trial membership. The Copart site lets people like you and me buy cars through an agent (ING in my case). There is a fee for this (300-400) and you must put up $400 min deposit. If you want to place a bid of more than $4000 then you would need to pony up some more. They have a "buy it now" feature which I used on 19 April. I know I paid a bit more rather than bidding on it but I only had 3 days left on my membership and would have had to pony up for an annual membership had I not purchased by the 22nd so I rationalized this as a wash. biggrin.gif. Once they received the wire transfer I was allowed to have the car picked up. So 1030 hr's Monday I put in a request for transport bids which come quickly. I received quotes from $1250 (guaranteed delivery within 2 days) to $350. I called the 350 quote and held his feet in the fire until he said that it would be picked up this week. I gave them $100 over the phone and was told to give $250 cash to the driver upon arrival. OK. 45 min's later I receive a call from the driver wanting the lot number. He was there and headed my way. 26 hours and $350 after my first call to the transport company it was in my driveway. Kudos to Brad at Lightning Auto Carriers (Boca Raton, FL) for being a man of his word.
Shit, this is a nice car and I'm trying not to get attached to it. Especially since it's my favorite color; green! Everything works except the drivers side mirror. The check engine light is on so I started it and let it idle for about 40 min's to check for overheating and/or fluid leaks. No problems. biggrin.gif So far. dry.gif All the fluids are topped off and "clean". Even the oil and air filter are clean. Good sign that the PO took care of her. Great tires but they are 16". She idles smoothly and shifts well so the tranny will bring some $$. HF has the OBDII scanner for $49 this week so I think I will see why that "check engine" lite is on before the transplant. I won't know what to believe once it's transplanted and I'm up to my neck in error codes. sad.gif So w/o further adieu meet Greenie:

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Hoping to add this wheel and steering column, too. And I believe those gages should graft in as well.

Attached Image

Nice wheelsAttached Image

with lots of thread

Attached Image

But this, more than any other reason, is why I wanted this car.

Attached Image

Topless

Attached Image

I know Chris will outrun me with his 3.3 but it's what I wanted. Unfortunately, I cannot begin stripping her until after 23 May because I have tons of family coming for my daughters graduation. She's getting her masters and the truth be told; that means the world to me. smile.gif

Posted by: jsconst Apr 25 2013, 06:13 PM

piratenanner.gif awesome, glad you found what you wanted. That's the same motor, and car I just finished tearing apart for my conversion. A 10mm socket, and a Phillips screwdriver will take most of the interior apart, the computer is under the passenger side carpet.
It will be nicer being able to take your time stripping the donor, I had to do mine all in one day, not so fun.
Great find, have fun tearing it apart. smash.gif beer3.gif

Jeff

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 26 2013, 07:40 AM

QUOTE(jsconst @ Apr 25 2013, 05:13 PM) *

piratenanner.gif awesome, glad you found what you wanted. That's the same motor, and car I just finished tearing apart for my conversion. A 10mm socket, and a Phillips screwdriver will take most of the interior apart, the computer is under the passenger side carpet.
It will be nicer being able to take your time stripping the donor, I had to do mine all in one day, not so fun.
Great find, have fun tearing it apart. smash.gif beer3.gif

Jeff

Thx, JC. I read your thread and 1 day is rushing it. At least for my old, dumb bootyshake.gif Any other tips to share or pitfalls that you discovered?

Posted by: jsconst Apr 26 2013, 08:09 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Apr 26 2013, 06:40 AM) *

QUOTE(jsconst @ Apr 25 2013, 05:13 PM) *

piratenanner.gif awesome, glad you found what you wanted. That's the same motor, and car I just finished tearing apart for my conversion. A 10mm socket, and a Phillips screwdriver will take most of the interior apart, the computer is under the passenger side carpet.
It will be nicer being able to take your time stripping the donor, I had to do mine all in one day, not so fun.
Great find, have fun tearing it apart. smash.gif beer3.gif

Jeff

Thx, JC. I read your thread and 1 day is rushing it. At least for my old, dumb bootyshake.gif Any other tips to share or pitfalls that you discovered?


It would be helpful to have another person to help strip the interior after the engine is out, going back and forth will wear you out, lots of bolts and screws, most will come out without too much trouble. The AC/heater box was a real pain, can't get it out without taking it apart, or breaking it in half with a hammer. I saved a few dash trim pieces just in case, things I wasn't saving I didn't worry about breaking to get it done faster.
Steering column comes out with three bolts, I'd take it out as soon as you can for better access. I think the main thing is take your time since you can, buy a book on the car, you won't find one that covers the 6cyl engine, but the rest is the same. It will help identify parts so you can label everything on the wire harness as you take it apart, easier now than later. Subaru doesn't sell a manual, they sell sections, starting at around $30 per section, so I just bought the chiltons manual for now.
They had already pulled the engine on mine, so can't help there.

Good luck

Jeff

Posted by: Chris H. Apr 26 2013, 08:23 AM

cheer.gif piratenanner.gif popcorn[1].gif smilie_pokal.gif smilie_pokal.gif smilie_pokal.gif smilie_pokal.gif smilie_pokal.gif

NIIICE! Great work Kent! That's a very strong motor and it's a lot smaller than the 3.3 and newer. I would not worry at all about the CEL as long as it runs OK. Could be something as simple as a wire with the coating worn off but it's probably a sensor or solenoid that you may or may not need. With the availability of used parts and the fact that many are universal across the Subie line there's not much you can't fix cheaply. Post the codes when you get them.

Take your time stripping it. It's exhausting (Jeff, have you recovered biggrin.gif ?) . Going through the wiring harness now. Worst part yet for sure.

Family trumps car stuff any day. That's why mine is going pretty slow. Maybe I can catch up with you on the progress happy11.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 3 2013, 03:09 PM

Chris, I'd have to agree with you on the wiring harness being a PITA. This is the starting point for me. After my daughter's graduation, family and entourage left 5/22. Miss them but it was time to begin the all out assault on the Suby. I was pussy footing around the first week or so, then out came the sawzall. I never would have been able remove the dash w/o one. Just like any predator I began at the rear and worked my way forward. I try to gather as much info on my own as possible before posting on the Suby boards. Those guy's will flame you in a second. Makes me appreciate each one of you guy's here. So, I began with exposing and removing the wiring from everything that is not conditional to the engine running. i.e I pull a plug and start the car. If it doesn't start I reconnect just that plug and move on to the next while identifying each wire as I go.
This is the harness that passes along the lower R side. Upper R side is Moon and Sun Roof wiring which I won't be using. This harness catches the rear running lights, rear washer & WW's, fuel pump/sender, misc evap vac/press sensors, and rear door motors/switches/locks.

Attached Image

Here it passes alongside the rear psg seat and on to the rear. The access ports for the fuel sender and fuel pump are shown here. The harness that feeds this wraps around the back seat and then enters on the rear L side???? Seems the long way around but.........

Attached Image

Some carnage shots. After all this I am to the point of pulling the engine. Did anyone notice the gage cluster is removed. Cars still starts and runs. Blew my mind. FWIW, the yellow harness' are the air bag/restraint system. Also, plastic squirt and roof drain lines are overhead L side along with most audio lines. Good idea! Separate power and water as well as RF interference.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image






Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: DBCooper Jun 3 2013, 04:00 PM

You guys who re-purpose the wiring harness and all that have a LOT more smarts and courage than I do. I used to look down on guys who threw tools when they were frustrated, but if I had that in my garage I think I'd have to re-think all that, because I'm pretty sure tools would be thrown.



Posted by: Chris H. Jun 3 2013, 04:16 PM

You're doing great Kent! I failed to mark many of the interior wires which is really biting me in the arse right now. Label every flipping wire man. It's worth it in the end. If you end up cutting them later that's OK. Still worth the investment. Otherwise you lose your "bearings" on what part of the wiring harness is what...if it's all labeled you can confidently trim it down bit by bit til you end up with only what you need.

Posted by: Jon H. Jun 3 2013, 05:13 PM

I have an eg33 that will be going into my westfalia and there is a company called http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29894 that has wiring harness modification directions. I know this is for westfalias but it should work for what your doing too.

From the website-
"This kit enables a person with some wiring ability and lots of time to take a Subaru "bulkhead" wiring harness, remove a large number of connectors and wires, splice and add some wiring and end up with just what is necessary to run the engine in another vehicle. These wiring kits are unique to each Subaru year and model. Please note that this kit is a guide for harness modification and not a step by step manual. The expected time commitment to convert a harness is 20-40 hours for the first timer."

Jon

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Jun 3 2013, 05:34 PM

Got a friend that is selling a 99k 2003 EZ30D with the wiring harness and computer for $1000. I told him that was a hell of a deal. I would not pull the harness for that price.
I think the best thing to do would just use the connectors. Make your own from scratch.

Bob flag.gif

Posted by: ruby914 Jun 3 2013, 08:07 PM

Cool!
This is the best part of the trip. piratenanner.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 3 2013, 08:59 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Jun 3 2013, 03:16 PM) *

You're doing great Kent! I failed to mark many of the interior wires which is really biting me in the arse right now. Label every flipping wire man. It's worth it in the end. If you end up cutting them later that's OK. Still worth the investment. Otherwise you lose your "bearings" on what part of the wiring harness is what...if it's all labeled you can confidently trim it down bit by bit til you end up with only what you need.

You read my mind Chris. And this car had incandescent bulbs originally so shouldn't be any weird surprises. I'm using the Suby rear view which has an auto dimming feature for the headlights in the mirror syndrome. biggrin.gif I am using the suby sun visors which can swivel to the side. If the side mirrors weren't so big I'd use those. Going in for the bun warmers too. My wife's one request. dry.gif

QUOTE(Jon H. @ Jun 3 2013, 04:13 PM) *

I have an eg33 that will be going into my westfalia and there is a company called http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29894 that has wiring harness modification directions. I know this is for westfalias but it should work for what your doing too.

From the website-
"This kit enables a person with some wiring ability and lots of time to take a Subaru "bulkhead" wiring harness, remove a large number of connectors and wires, splice and add some wiring and end up with just what is necessary to run the engine in another vehicle. These wiring kits are unique to each Subaru year and model. Please note that this kit is a guide for harness modification and not a step by step manual. The expected time commitment to convert a harness is 20-40 hours for the first timer."

Jon

Yea. I considered that route but I've read too many threads where people like me stumble and fall on their face when trying to program the ECU, which you didn't mention. Add $1500 for the ECU. The wiring should be tedious but doable.

QUOTE(BIGKAT_83 @ Jun 3 2013, 04:34 PM) *

Got a friend that is selling a 99k 2003 EZ30D with the wiring harness and computer for $1000. I told him that was a hell of a deal. I would not pull the harness for that price.
I think the best thing to do would just use the connectors. Make your own from scratch.

Bob flag.gif

Thx for that info that you sent, Bob. BTW, what is the proper sequence for removing the bolys from that 58 bolt cover? wacko.gif If I lived close to you I would attempt that but I don't know shit from apple butter when it comes to any FI other than DJet. I'd just end up having someone hold my hand through the whole process. mad.gif I may end up going that route but I hope this works. I'd feel better knowing that some 40 yr old wire is being replaced with something newer, too.

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 3 2013, 09:18 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Jun 3 2013, 03:16 PM) *

You're doing great Kent! I failed to mark many of the interior wires which is really biting me in the arse right now. Label every flipping wire man. It's worth it in the end. If you end up cutting them later that's OK. Still worth the investment. Otherwise you lose your "bearings" on what part of the wiring harness is what...if it's all labeled you can confidently trim it down bit by bit til you end up with only what you need.

You read my mind Chris. And this car had incandescent bulbs originally so shouldn't be any weird surprises. I'm using the Suby rear view which has an auto dimming feature for the headlights in the mirror syndrome. biggrin.gif I am using the suby sun visors which can swivel to the side. If the side mirrors weren't so big I'd use those. Going in for the bun warmers too. My wife's one request. dry.gif

QUOTE(Jon H. @ Jun 3 2013, 04:13 PM) *

I have an eg33 that will be going into my westfalia and there is a company called http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29894 that has wiring harness modification directions. I know this is for westfalias but it should work for what your doing too.

From the website-
"This kit enables a person with some wiring ability and lots of time to take a Subaru "bulkhead" wiring harness, remove a large number of connectors and wires, splice and add some wiring and end up with just what is necessary to run the engine in another vehicle. These wiring kits are unique to each Subaru year and model. Please note that this kit is a guide for harness modification and not a step by step manual. The expected time commitment to convert a harness is 20-40 hours for the first timer."

Jon

Yea. I considered that route but I've read too many threads where people like me stumble and fall on their face when trying to program the ECU, which you didn't mention. Add $1500 for the ECU. The wiring should be tedious but doable.

QUOTE(BIGKAT_83 @ Jun 3 2013, 04:34 PM) *

Got a friend that is selling a 99k 2003 EZ30D with the wiring harness and computer for $1000. I told him that was a hell of a deal. I would not pull the harness for that price.
I think the best thing to do would just use the connectors. Make your own from scratch.

Bob flag.gif

Thx for that info that you sent, Bob. BTW, what is the proper sequence for removing the bolys from that 58 bolt cover? wacko.gif If I lived close to you I would attempt that but I don't know shit from apple butter when it comes to any FI other than DJet. I'd just end up having someone hold my hand through the whole process. mad.gif I may end up going that route but I hope this works. I'd feel better knowing that some 40 yr old wire is being replaced with something newer, too.

Posted by: Jon H. Jun 4 2013, 04:41 AM

Program the ECU? I didn't know I had to do that either. I never came across that in my research. I sure don't need that extra expense.

Posted by: DBCooper Jun 4 2013, 06:54 AM

If you bought an aftermarket ECU from a company like Outfront it will have a good map already installed. They'll ask you about your engine, any performance modifications, and put in one that will get you up and running well enough that in most cases you won't even need to change anything. Then you can fine tune and pick up some additional power with an hour of dyno time. That's what I did, and had them make the engine harness too, no big deal. If it's a Megasquirt or some other ECU not from Outfront you can usually get a base map from the vendor or someone else for free, then either do the fine tuning yourself (an EXCELLENT learning experience and well worth the aggravation) or pay for an hour or two of dyno time to have it tuned for you. The OEM ECU will have the Subaru map installed, so no issue there.

It's a trade really, the work of modifying an OEM ECU and harness against the expense of buying an aftermarket ECU, harness and dyno time. With an aftermarket ECU you'll have probably better tunability and a leaner car, because you can't incorporate all the features that can come with the OEM equipment. But of course with the OEM you get a tested and proven system that's long-term robust, where a Subaru mechanic or dealership won't be lost if you need help somewhere. As long as your work modifying the OEM harness was done well, anyway.

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 15 2013, 08:57 AM

Some very good points, DB. I had already formulated my plan before I found out about this option or that Mega Squirt has the 3.0 mapped out, now. Leave it to me to find the most difficult way to do something. biggrin.gif
Between a very busy work schedule and the NBA Finals, I finally got this sucker pulled. There has been a lot of work going on but nothing to post that would reflect that. sad.gif
Thanks to Ethan and his Dad, Paul for the loan of the cherry picker. Next up is re- sealing this engine where it has a few small oil leaks, then on to the actual fitment. The leaks seem to be on the lower corners of the heads. Those corner bolts were loose, also. WTF.gif The timing chain cover appears to have a small leak, too.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

I used My "Andy Lens" for this shot. dry.gif
Attached Image

Posted by: Tilly74 Jun 15 2013, 09:47 AM

Congrats on all the hard work! Will be watching this build closely!! popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 17 2013, 08:48 AM

Well I finally got the last wiring harness out. If and when I get this sorted out (thought I'd give myself some breathing room in case this is over my head dry.gif ) I expect the harness should be about the same size as the teeners. Notice the rear view mirror in the pic. It has an auto dimming feature which should be the Cats Ass in a teener. It was a Royal PITA to remove it w/o cutting it. Hope it pays off. sad.gif When taking this pic today I was once again questioning my sanity. Is this project bigger than me? What was I thinking? Then I tell myself to compartmentalize things and take a deep breath. dry.gif Anyway, the cannibalization of the donor is over and it's time to see what fits.




Attached image(s)
Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image

Posted by: bulitt Jun 17 2013, 09:07 AM

Dear God.

Posted by: Chris H. Jun 17 2013, 09:18 AM

Kent, I know that feeling but you are doing great. You have no idea how much time you saved by labeling the harness so well. Another tip is DO NOT un-bundle the harness and unravel all the electrical tape at once. Just dissect it one plug at a time. Pick the wires you don't need and cut them out, pull them through the harness, done. Mine is a knotted mess now. The good news is I don't plan to use most of the body harness after all so most will be thrown away. It was pretty weathered and probably worse for wear than the 914 one. Yours looks pretty fresh!

Posted by: ruby914 Jun 17 2013, 07:56 PM

Piece of cake. biggrin.gif
Learn how to open the connectors before you start cutting wires.
They are all different but kind of the same.
Is that rear view mirror controlled by the integrated module?
The integrated module was a mystery box for me. I think it controls the dimmer on the dash. I finally deleted it. Looks like you have everything you need, hope you get the mirror working beerchug.gif
In the end, if you need some extra Bg, Ry, Wr,… wire, let me know I may have some extra.

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 17 2013, 09:35 PM

Thanks guys, good info. And I hope that I pulled off the turboencabulator that controls the mirror, too. biggrin.gif I'll bet those wires are in the 35lb arena. I'll probably get $50 just for the scrap copper. biggrin.gif I need to get those harness' attached to my "work station", spread out and disected. I'll need to build a frame for the engine but need to buy a tranny so I can mount the starter and on and on and on. It will be a long road. I need to hear it run and check out the electrical before I start stripping the wiring from the 914. Some days I wish I knew what I was doing. bootyshake.gif

Posted by: DBCooper Jun 18 2013, 05:48 AM

What I thought was an intelligent way of organizing things:

IPB Image

He does it regularly, of course, so it's kind of a production tool, but it still made sense to me as a way of keeping things sorted.






Posted by: 76-914 Jun 18 2013, 09:00 PM

That's pretty much what I have planned except vertical. I don't have enough room otherwise. I plan to use the garage door huh.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 27 2013, 07:03 PM

Needed something to do but I have the engine cleaned up and awaiting some seals. Then Aircraft Spruce sold me the wrong size 4130 tube so I can't start making motor mounts. (Notice how I blamed ACS. That felt good. Kinda relieves one of that nagging feeling brought on by accountability.) Herschel came by and picked up the Subaru skeleton today so that's done. Then I remembered the shock kit that Elyut sold me. Smoking deal, thx.
Left rear

Attached Image

Attached Image

right rear

Attached Image

left front

Attached Image

right front

Attached Image

I've always had a clunk as the rear lid was raised and lowered but basically ignored it. After I removed the old torsion bars and rollers I was able to see this. And before you say anything those are not my welds. Mine aren't nearly that good. I knew this area needed to be cleaned up but hadn't expected this. What is supposed to be there? A bearing? A bolt? A nut? I'll find out when I pull it apart I guess.

Attached Image

The right side is gut sans the welds again. These welds look like someone tried to stick weld them on. Surely not factory. I have this side to reference if I don't get an answer.

Attached Image

So Saturday I'll head back to ACS for the correct size 4130 tube to begin the motor mounts. This will be totally out of my league but Ian won't have any for a few month's (if ever) and I ain't getting any younger. dry.gif That being said, what are the target dimensions for the engine height wise if I'm going with the suby 5mt tranny. TIA

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 10 2013, 07:53 AM

The 4130 tube arrived so it was time to get Blackie up and start with the mount. Besides I need the room to weld in the new trunk hinge when it arrives. I bought a 4x4 and ran a dado cut down it to accept the flange on the bottom of the longs. Flame on.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

No, I am not making the cradle from wood. chair.gif Just trying to visualize.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

I had planned to heat bend the tube but proved to be a PIA. Too tricky to keep below 1500F and I don't have any means to heat treat so it was off to HF. With my coupon I walked out with this for $79. Out of the dark ages now.

Attached Image

Attached Image

The first pieces. Next is to locate some bushing stock or some 5/16 weld tabs (if they make such a thing).

Attached Image

PS, Blackie is getting a new name. Just discovered that name is already in use. His new name is Frank.

Posted by: Chris H. Jul 10 2013, 01:28 PM

Not sure about the 3.0 but the stock 3.3 manifolds were way too long. I got headers from Bob that sit very close to the engine underneath. Perfect fit, but I might have to cut one of the braces on my Ian mount for that reason. Might want to make sure you don't weld any bracing in that area.

Put some jack stands under that car brotha! poke.gif Just for backup!

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 11 2013, 09:58 AM

Hey Chris bye1.gif , I thought about that so I will pick up the collector from Outfront and fit it to the engine before fabbing that part. I also need to check the cradle for clearance of the 1/2 shafts as well as ground clearance of the exhaust. The jack stands get in the way with what I am doing just now. It is very stable as it sits now. I had a crazy idea last nite. I think I will look at modifying the cradle to accept casters that would drop in/out. It would be nice to slap on the casters, lower the cradle onto the floor and roll in/out. How's your project coming along?

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 11 2013, 10:22 AM

I received the trunk hinge from Restoration Design first.gif so I took a break from the engine cradle to attack this.

Attached Image

I had noticed the mud dauber welds earlier and then found that the hinge had rusted thru also. After grinding down the old welds and removing the old hinge it looked like this

Attached Image

But a close up reveals a crappy previous repair as well as brazing...........

Attached Image

Attached Image

I'll need to get this area cleaned up and I'll beef up this area before welding in the replacement piece.

Check out the Key Chain I received from Restoration Design. Coooooooooool.

Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. Jul 11 2013, 05:25 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jul 11 2013, 10:58 AM) *

Hey Chris bye1.gif , I thought about that so I will pick up the collector from Outfront and fit it to the engine before fabbing that part. I also need to check the cradle for clearance of the 1/2 shafts as well as ground clearance of the exhaust. The jack stands get in the way with what I am doing just now. It is very stable as it sits now. I had a crazy idea last nite. I think I will look at modifying the cradle to accept casters that would drop in/out. It would be nice to slap on the casters, lower the cradle onto the floor and roll in/out. How's your project coming along?


Bob did a nice job on the exhaust I bought from him. Check out his blog. It also has pics of his mount.

Great idea on the casters. That way you won't dread dropping the engine. Seems like it would be easy to do. My gut is telling me there is NO WAY I did everything right so far, so I expect to drop the engine and trans at least a couple of times. On my project I've been working on the 5 lug conversion. Should be done this weekend. Then I have to decide if I drop the engine and trans and start the install or keep it as is and take it to Garold's before the swap. Great work! Keep it up! smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 11 2013, 07:44 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Jul 11 2013, 04:25 PM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jul 11 2013, 10:58 AM) *

Hey Chris bye1.gif , I thought about that so I will pick up the collector from Outfront and fit it to the engine before fabbing that part. I also need to check the cradle for clearance of the 1/2 shafts as well as ground clearance of the exhaust. The jack stands get in the way with what I am doing just now. It is very stable as it sits now. I had a crazy idea last nite. I think I will look at modifying the cradle to accept casters that would drop in/out. It would be nice to slap on the casters, lower the cradle onto the floor and roll in/out. How's your project coming along?


Bob did a nice job on the exhaust I bought from him. Check out his blog. It also has pics of his mount.

Great idea on the casters. That way you won't dread dropping the engine. Seems like it would be easy to do. My gut is telling me there is NO WAY I did everything right so far, so I expect to drop the engine and trans at least a couple of times. On my project I've been working on the 5 lug conversion. Should be done this weekend. Then I have to decide if I drop the engine and trans and start the install or keep it as is and take it to Garold's before the swap. Great work! Keep it up! smilie_pokal.gif

I think I finally discovered Bob's build at NARP. I was reading the ScoobyDo forum and saw that Blue car and realized BK was Bob. Damn he does nice work. He also said something about changing that exhaust setup so I've been popcorn[1].gif . We need to send a reporter to document his next build. lol-2.gif

Posted by: mepstein Jul 11 2013, 08:18 PM

Your "jack stands" scare me.

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 13 2013, 06:43 PM

I ground out all the brazing from a previous repair then filled holes and ground them down. This is the last of the welded holes.

Attached Image

Ready for weld thru primer.

Attached Image

Reinforcement piece 18ga.

Attached Image

Reinforcement piece welded in

Attached Image

Primed with weld thru. Ready for the hinge piece to be welded to it now.

Attached Image

Here's the new one. Thanks Restoration Design.

Attached Image

Primed and ready to have the nut from the back side welded in

Attached Image

Welded in place. It's ugly but substantial. It's a bitch to get that tip in there. huh.gif

Attached Image

And everything welded/primed and ready for the lid to be mounted, shocks slipped on make any adjustments necessary. The motion of the trunk lid is now smooth as a baby's bootyshake.gif .

Attached Image

With that out of the way it's time to get back to the motor mount. dry.gif This thing is going to have it's way with me but eventually (aka more $$) I'll get it. It's a start stop scenario so bear with me.
I took some 1/4"x 4" sq plates and used the Subaru piece as a guide. After I made the slots in each piece I realized that it wasn't necessary. A solitary hole would have been fine but now I have a little more wiggle room.

Attached Image

A quick test fit

Attached Image

Attached Image

One is the mirror image of the other so using 2 of the 4 bolt holes the plates are bolted together and the 1st piece is the template for the other.

Attached Image

Attached Image

The plates in place

Attached Image

Attached Image

I need the engine level to get these next measurements.

Attached Image

Right & left motor mounts are at 32 degrees.

Attached Image

Attached Image


Well I'm at the stopping point again headbang.gif . I need the exhaust flanges before I can go any further with the cradle so I stuck some pieces up just for shits n grins. hissyfit.gif


Attached Image

Attached Image


Posted by: 76-914 Jul 20 2013, 09:38 PM

Yippie piratenanner.gif Picked up a tranny from an 03 WRX 2.0T, 74K miles., pressure plate, throw out bearing, some 1/2 shafts he threw in (away). biggrin.gif This will help answer my cradle questions. Bottom line is that the center line off the 1/2 shafts is roughly at the bottom of the heads. Porcharu is sending me some majic flanges in a few weeks, too. biggrin.gif Only one pair left!!!

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 25 2013, 06:32 PM

So back to the motor mount. I used some .25" 4" prefab plates ( $1.99ea) as the base plates and drilled them to match the factory mounts. For the stand offs I used some Proto Fab tabs ($3.99ea x 4) radius 1.5" to match the tube. All I had to do was shorten them a bit. I had already tacked the shorter tabs in place before I started with the pics. dry.gif . They were out of the short rectangular tab so I used the ones with slanted sides which is covered a few pics down. Here the plates are back on the mounts with both short and long tabs tacked in place. The tube is slipped back in place to check flush and square from time to time.

The right bank

Attached Image

Left bank

Attached Image

Another angle of the Left bank

Attached Image

Ditto on the right bank

Attached Image

Front view

Attached Image

A quick double check of the angle

Attached Image

LJYYCM(%VF

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

I wanted to add a piece to tie in the stand offs so I cut some off this 3/16" piece

Attached Image

Attached Image

But........because I had used the tabs with the angled sides I needed to tweek the end to match. With the piece firmly clamped in the vise a cheater bar clamped to it and...........

Attached Image

Attached Image

These two pic's show that angle beater than I can say it.

Attached Image

Attached Image

The pieces seem to fit well enough

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

And after a few minutes of welding in the vise

Attached Image

Attached Image

One more quick check and it still level. The cross bar will not get welded in place yet. It is my variable if I've missed something. At least that is what I am telling myself. sheeplove.gif Next thing is to position the long side rails and weld the bolt collars in so I can hang them off the car. Then the cross member will be cut/radiused to length (and possibly bent to offset any height issues and/or exhaust issues) and welded in place. Stay tuned as I stumble and bumble my way thru this with an emphasis on embarrassing myself. bootyshake.gif smash.gif headbang.gif welder.gif idea.gif sawzall-smiley.gif

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 28 2013, 08:43 PM

some more

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Jul 28 2013, 08:46 PM

Nice job on the mount.

Bob

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 28 2013, 08:47 PM

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: David J Jul 29 2013, 07:00 AM

Nicely done. Do you plan to bolt the trans to the cradle or mount it independently ?

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 29 2013, 09:20 AM

Thx, Bob. I was very careful to not take any pic's with the "really bad" weld joints. lol-2.gif

David, I'll have to figure that out. My original plan was to use the factory mount on the bottom rear of the tranny but...........that part of the tranny is removed because it isn't needed. headbang.gif That being said, who knows. DB Coopers cradle design might be the way to go but I haven't finalized that yet. Once that part is worked out some gussets and additional bracing/re-inforcement will be added. It's pretty much a skeleton at this point.

Posted by: Chris H. Jul 29 2013, 10:03 AM

Looks really good Kent! I like the way you incorporated the front mount attachment points. For the trans you can just fab up a couple of hangers similar to the coldwater.com setup.

Got my engine out...I'll try to update the thread soon.

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 3 2013, 08:21 AM

Thx Chris. As you can see in the following pic's, I did the same on the tranny pick up points except that I welded those pieces to the cradle. I understand why Ian did his that way but I felt that if I were to need to drop the tranny that I would just drop the entire assm or just remove the tranny from it's factory mount (4 bolts).

Before going any further with the cradle I replaced this little pest.

Attached Image

Then on to the tranny to switch it from AWD to FWD. Thx for the link Chris. After draining the lube it is stood on end and the rear cover bolts are removed.

Attached Image

A few taps with a rubber mallet to separate it

Attached Image

To reveal this

Attached Image

Attached Image

Now it's just a matter of removing a few pieces

Attached Image

Attached Image

Group photo of the pieces that are removed.

Attached Image

Here the locking nut is being removed. Notice the pipe wrench's affixed to the output shafts. Impact makes short work of this.

Attached Image

Next I need to make a cover plate for the rear of the tranny. I'll use the old cover as a template but I need to remove this gear first so I remove the 4 allen head screws holding it first.

Attached Image

Now I can scribe the outline.

Attached Image

Then a quick ride on the bandsaw.

Attached Image

A little shaping on my "washing machine motor turned 12" sander". lol-2.gif

Attached Image

A after 10 min's of polishing the piece of junk yard aluminium, viola!

Attached Image


Attached image(s)
Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 3 2013, 08:39 AM

Now, back to the cradle. One piece that ties the tranny support onto the cradle.

Attached Image

The other side (right)

Attached Image

And now it's tied in. I used the factory tranny mount after realizing that this section "was not" removed as I believed it would be earlier. chair.gif

Attached Image

Found my first "gotcha". The clutch fork is contacting the trunk in this pic. It appears that I can trim this piece down. I'll need to drill another hole for the return spring after trimming this.

Attached Image

Hanging from the front mounts.

Attached Image

A view from the lid

Attached Image

And a shot from the rear. The bottle neck jack is there until I shave the clutch fork down enough to connect the rear attach points on the cradle.

Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 3 2013, 08:44 AM

Awesome!

Now post that center diff on NASIOC! I got $250 for mine no haggling.

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 5 2013, 09:26 AM

Shopping for a clutch and came across this. It appears Exedy is not the way to go.
http://www.rexnet.com.au/forum/index.php?/topic/78962-wrx-clutch-exedy-rattle-solved-p18/page__st__150


Posted by: Runman07 Aug 5 2013, 11:32 PM

I would look into an act clutch and pressure plate, they make awesome clutches

Posted by: messix Aug 6 2013, 12:38 AM

It looks like the engine is rubber mounted and the tranny is not.... is that correct?

that will be trouble, both need to be mounted solid or isolated mounts, not mix and match.

Posted by: Runman07 Aug 6 2013, 07:00 AM

The Trans is on a mount. Its the black thing underneath the rear of the trans

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 6 2013, 11:12 AM

I think Troy's point is the fact that one end of the cradle might have a soft mount and one end might be directly bolted to the chassis. Keep in mind we also have engine mounts in the middle attached to the engine.

Kent what are you doing for cradle mounts? Front, back, or both? I'm actually worried about the opposite. I have 911 mounts at the front and rear as well as the stock mounts on the engine. Might be too soft. If so I can remove the front cradle mounts I guess.

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 6 2013, 04:31 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Aug 6 2013, 10:12 AM) *

I think Troy's point is the fact that one end of the cradle might have a soft mount and one end might be directly bolted to the chassis. Keep in mind we also have engine mounts in the middle attached to the engine.

Kent what are you doing for cradle mounts? Front, back, or both? I'm actually worried about the opposite. I have 911 mounts at the front and rear as well as the stock mounts on the engine. Might be too soft. If so I can remove the front cradle mounts I guess.

I'm running front and rear factory rubber mounts in their original position i.e. the bottom of the engine and tranny. I don't know why your cradle has those front extensions unless Ian discovered a weakness in that design or maybe it's a material difference. They certainly won't hurt anything. I used 4130 1.5" .095"wall which I felt was substantial. My motor mount receivers are different from his also so he may have transferred some of that load to those front mounts. Time will tell. Maybe mine will fall off someday. lol-2.gif Chris, does your clutch disc have 4 lg springs only or 4 lg spg's with small spgs inside the lg ones for a total of 8?

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 6 2013, 07:25 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 6 2013, 05:31 PM) *

Chris, does your clutch disc have 4 lg springs only or 4 lg spg's with small spgs inside the lg ones for a total of 8?


I'm sure your mount is fine. Ian designed his mount so it could be used with any Subie engine...maybe that's why it's different. Fits great I must say.

I don't know on the clutch...already installed it about 3 months ago. It's a different kit than yours with a thicker pressure plate. I'm not gonna worry about it though...if it rattles I'll buy one from Subaru I guess. Seems like the worst that could happen is the disk gets chewed up. If I happen to separate the engine and trans anytime soon I'll check for you.

Edit:

This is the kit I bought. If you look REALLY close you can see 2 sets of springs for a total of 8...whew! Good news there. Gripforce on e-bay seems like a good outfit.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXEDY-CLUTCH-KIT-2006-2013-SUBARU-IMPREZA-WRX-SAAB-9-2X-AERO-2-5L-TURBO-EJ255-/161078332471?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2581044c37

Posted by: Zaney Aug 7 2013, 08:39 AM

Everything looks great and very familiar!

A little bird dropped me a question about this time in my build regarding the http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=94994&st=80 clearance. If this part of the cradle is not the lowest point then, disregard my nosiness.

Feel free to ask about any details that were not listed in any of the Suby builds here, especially Strawman! Geoff is very helpful!

Cheers!

Nate beer.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 7 2013, 10:15 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Aug 6 2013, 06:25 PM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 6 2013, 05:31 PM) *

Chris, does your clutch disc have 4 lg springs only or 4 lg spg's with small spgs inside the lg ones for a total of 8?


I'm sure your mount is fine. Ian designed his mount so it could be used with any Subie engine...maybe that's why it's different. Fits great I must say.

I don't know on the clutch...already installed it about 3 months ago. It's a different kit than yours with a thicker pressure plate. I'm not gonna worry about it though...if it rattles I'll buy one from Subaru I guess. Seems like the worst that could happen is the disk gets chewed up. If I happen to separate the engine and trans anytime soon I'll check for you.

Edit:

This is the kit I bought. If you look REALLY close you can see 2 sets of springs for a total of 8...whew! Good news there. Gripforce on e-bay seems like a good outfit.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXEDY-CLUTCH-KIT-2006-2013-SUBARU-IMPREZA-WRX-SAAB-9-2X-AERO-2-5L-TURBO-EJ255-/161078332471?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2581044c37

I finally quit obsessing over it and took your advice. Ordered a KB03 this AM. I'll let you know when it gets here. BTW, all those chatter posts are on AWD systems. idea.gif

QUOTE(Zaney @ Aug 7 2013, 07:39 AM) *

Everything looks great and very familiar!

A little bird dropped me a question about this time in my build regarding the http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=94994&st=80 clearance. If this part of the cradle is not the lowest point then, disregard my nosiness.

Feel free to ask about any details that were not listed in any of the Suby builds here, especially Strawman! Geoff is very helpful!

Cheers!

Nate beer.gif

Nate, I think I can speak for Chris (and others) as well when I say thanks to you, Geoff, Bob and et al for looking over our projects. We need all the help we can get. lol-2.gif I'm confused though. Were you pointing out that my cradle needs to attached to the firewall also or that I run the risk of tearing my trans mount off? As things sit presently, my oil pan is about 1.5" lower than the cradle. I may have to attach a skid plate to the cradle to rectify but that will be addressed later.

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 7 2013, 04:40 PM

Kent, on the clutches I think the issue was definitely related to 4WD HARD DRIVING and also some cheap kits that were probably not supposed to be used with a Subie. EXEDY makes clutches for other cars and they might just need 4 springs.

Definitely appreciate all the help from everyone. Every time I need an answer from certain Subaru sites I am reminded of how genuinely helpful this community is. I would not be able to do my swap without you guys.

Nate, your trans mounts are thicker at the top than mine, which would solve my clearance problem. Thanks for the example. I will shim them for now but will probably weld some more steel on the top of the plate to lower the cradle a bit (winter project).

Posted by: Zaney Aug 7 2013, 10:38 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 7 2013, 09:15 AM) *

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Aug 6 2013, 06:25 PM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 6 2013, 05:31 PM) *

Chris, does your clutch disc have 4 lg springs only or 4 lg spg's with small spgs inside the lg ones for a total of 8?


I'm sure your mount is fine. Ian designed his mount so it could be used with any Subie engine...maybe that's why it's different. Fits great I must say.

I don't know on the clutch...already installed it about 3 months ago. It's a different kit than yours with a thicker pressure plate. I'm not gonna worry about it though...if it rattles I'll buy one from Subaru I guess. Seems like the worst that could happen is the disk gets chewed up. If I happen to separate the engine and trans anytime soon I'll check for you.

Edit:

This is the kit I bought. If you look REALLY close you can see 2 sets of springs for a total of 8...whew! Good news there. Gripforce on e-bay seems like a good outfit.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXEDY-CLUTCH-KIT-2006-2013-SUBARU-IMPREZA-WRX-SAAB-9-2X-AERO-2-5L-TURBO-EJ255-/161078332471?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2581044c37

I finally quit obsessing over it and took your advice. Ordered a KB03 this AM. I'll let you know when it gets here. BTW, all those chatter posts are on AWD systems. idea.gif

QUOTE(Zaney @ Aug 7 2013, 07:39 AM) *

Everything looks great and very familiar!

A little bird dropped me a question about this time in my build regarding the http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=94994&st=80 clearance. If this part of the cradle is not the lowest point then, disregard my nosiness.

Feel free to ask about any details that were not listed in any of the Suby builds here, especially Strawman! Geoff is very helpful!

Cheers!

Nate beer.gif

Nate, I think I can speak for Chris (and others) as well when I say thanks to you, Geoff, Bob and et al for looking over our projects. We need all the help we can get. lol-2.gif I'm confused though. Were you pointing out that my cradle needs to attached to the firewall also or that I run the risk of tearing my trans mount off? As things sit presently, my oil pan is about 1.5" lower than the cradle. I may have to attach a skid plate to the cradle to rectify but that will be addressed later.


If the cradle would take the scrape rather than tail mount then no worries. The way mine was situated the Suby mount would take the brunt of a blow. So, that is why I used the 911 mounts at the stock positions with the trans stubs mounts to the case itself.

Hope it clarifies my nosiness smile.gif

Looks great!
NAte

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 12 2013, 10:42 PM

I installed the new clutch

Attached Image

and TO bearing. Must admit that "pull clutch thing" threw me a curve ball at first.

Attached Image

But before I slapped the drive train back into the car for another fit I did something I'd wanted to do since I began bouncing this cradle design around in my head. First I retired this contraption. They will be re-purposed in a welding station.

Attached Image

And did this. $24 worth of casters, scrap piece of DOM & 2" angle. It's a dream to move around the shop and no worries about tipping over, either.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

But I saved the best part for last. Watch how fast and easy the install back into the car goes. After rolling the assm under the car (with the wheels on the car) I line up front left mount and place the floor jack under the cradle

Attached Image

Raise it 2" or until the wheel falls out

Attached Image

Attached Image


Then the bolt is slid back thru with a large washer to mate against the factory bracket and spread the load. BTW, both the bolt and washers are re-purposed from the old rear mounts. The nut with a smaller diameter fat washer are started from above but not tightened. One down

Attached Image

Repeat on the right side. Two down

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Back to the tail and just like the sides it's jacked up 2" but after the wheel falls out the receiver is removed from the tranny and the rear mounts are fastened to the old rear receivers as shown in an earlier post here. After the rears mounts are tightened I go back and finish tightening the fronts.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image


And it's a good thing that I went with gas struts for the lids because this brace that contained the 2 torsion rods for the old truck lift ended up dead center of the TB throat. I'll grind 'em down later but that spot might get a trim anyway. sawzall-smiley.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Plenty of clearance up front

Attached Image

This is the Carrot in Front of the "yours truly" Donkey. Just seeing it sitting there should keep me motivated. I believe the cradle is finished short of paint and a few weld tabs for the shifter or exhaust system.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: euro911 Aug 12 2013, 11:02 PM

Cool smile.gif

There's no front cross member under the engine? The mounts being aft of the engine's centerline are adequate? confused24.gif

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 13 2013, 07:10 AM

See now you're just showing off...slow down Kent! I almost caught up! poke.gif

Looks great and it will be nice when you have to drop the engine. So easy.


Posted by: 76-914 Aug 13 2013, 07:18 AM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Aug 12 2013, 10:02 PM) *

Cool smile.gif

There's no front cross member under the engine? The mounts being aft of the engine's centerline are adequate? confused24.gif

Adequate? Adequate! There's no adequate in 914's. happy11.gif Actually your correct. No front cross member. When I pull the tranny I need to brace the front of the engine because it is totally front heavy w/o it. In it's factory configuration there is a support attached from top center of the tranny to the firewall.

Posted by: AfricanHijinx Aug 14 2013, 01:43 PM

I love that mount

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 14 2013, 04:41 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Aug 13 2013, 06:10 AM) *

See now you're just showing off...slow down Kent! I almost caught up! poke.gif

Looks great and it will be nice when you have to drop the engine. So easy.

Oh I think you are ahead of me Chris. Anything that's gone quickly is a result of others previous endeavors, including you. Less research time=more build time. The roll around cradle makes it so fast and easy that I don't hesitate to R&R as needed. I think I have about $150.00 +/- $10 in materials including the wheels. Now if you add in the bender, tube notcher and bi metal hole saws your looking at about $350 to make one. There is no doubt that it is easier to buy one but none were available and this helped offset the cost of my welding equipment. Any of you locals are welcome to make the 2 bends necessary on my bender, should the bug bite you.

QUOTE(AfricanHijinx @ Aug 14 2013, 12:43 PM) *

I love that mount

Thanks. One of my ideas actually worked. dry.gif

Posted by: ruby914 Aug 14 2013, 05:13 PM

Kent,
I love the casters idea beerchug.gif
When I get back to working on my car, I was going to look into a support attached from the tranny to the firewall. Maybe you can pave the way. smile.gif

Posted by: jimkelly Aug 14 2013, 05:36 PM

wub.gif

Posted by: jsconst Aug 14 2013, 08:35 PM

Nice engine cradle, the wheel setup is brilliant first.gif

Definitely have to copy that design when I get ready to build mine.
You guys are way ahead of me....I'm still trying to get my shop done so I can get started.

Nice job Kent, keep the details coming. beerchug.gif

Jeff

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 26 2013, 01:43 PM

QUOTE(ruby914 @ Aug 14 2013, 04:13 PM) *

Kent,
I love the casters idea beerchug.gif
When I get back to working on my car, I was going to look into a support attached from the tranny to the firewall. Maybe you can pave the way. smile.gif

Sorry I'm late getting back with you guy's. Hey Mike bye1.gif , you do realize that you are one of the MAIN reasons I got into this. Not sure whether to ar15.gif you or grouphug.gif you, yet. shades.gif Just kidding. I did take a quick look at that and the first ? that came to mind is why? It is only about 2" aft of the engine mounts so it isn't to add support when the tranny is out?? Given the bolt thru it was horizontal I doubt it was for torsional control?? Was it there to spread the weight load? If it were attached to the trunk wall what reinforcements would be needed?? Your thoughts?

QUOTE(jsconst @ Aug 14 2013, 07:35 PM) *

Nice engine cradle, the wheel setup is brilliant first.gif

Definitely have to copy that design when I get ready to build mine.
You guys are way ahead of me....I'm still trying to get my shop done so I can get started.

Nice job Kent, keep the details coming. beerchug.gif

Jeff

Hey thx Jeff. You might want to go .125" wall if you go DOM. BTW, that was one 10' piece of tube. I cut it a little close as I had 2.5" left over when finished! Next time I won't cut it as close as it took too much effort (you know, that double and triple checking your measurements stromberg.gif wacko.gif ). I could have used a little more cushion when constructing it. mad.gif

So I better post something up so I don't have to call myself out on "The Slackers Thread". I really don't have stromberg.gif to show as I have been trudging thru this maelstrom known as a wiring harness. headbang.gif There aren't enough joint's in the world to take the edge of this job. So I sheeplove.gif with it until I begin to feel my sanity slipping away then move onto something trivial. Or should I say something less demanding? Simple suits me well. dry.gif

So as a diversion I'm falling back to something else. This is one of those items. The slave (is that politically correct?) cylinder needed another 5/8" clearance so....
sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

A flat panel would have made things a bit easier. This cover will need to be removeable to inspect/service the banjo fitting.

Attached Image

Attached Image

And as it turns out the starter needs a bit of room also. Even after I asked Bob which one would clear I still end up with a clearance issue. The good thing is if it takes a stromberg.gif I won't have to worry about another one fitting if it happens in BFE. And before I get flamed for the elongated access remember that the engine/tranny combo is up and then slid forward, so it is necessary.

Attached Image

Rather than pontificate I'll just run some pic's past ya and you can use yer imagination or ask a question if ya have 'em.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

This littl POS consumed 4 hr's of my day, after all was said and done. I couldn't be any slower if I tried. I had to go over it twice to fill any pin holes as I didn't want this piece rusting out soon.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

After all that I ended up with this gap which I corrected with a tab welded in place. I'll show that in the next few days. It's primed, in place and already covered up as the trunk is converted back to the cat motel. Yea the little bastards sleep in the trunk but they do their business outside and whilst me neighbors have rodents we have none. confused24.gif

So after a few more stints in the wiring asylum I soon found another item that required my attention (just don't make me go back to wireworld. BTW, I stole this idea from Bob (bigkat). I had laid out what I thought to be the correct location for the pump assembly then a little voice said better double check that so I went thru the threads and noticed that Bob had his centered a bit more than mine. I had fixated upon installing it upon a flat surface and almost ruined a good tank. After looking at Bob's install it occurred to me that the criteria was where the pick up is located! DUH chair.gif This is why you will see one drawing imposed upon another. The piece of wood held in place by the cleco side clamps is there to position the compass upon. By looking straight down the filler neck w/ a plumb bob I established the location of the reservoirs rim. By sticking a tape inside the reservoir I determined the diameter. Rather than bisecting a segment in the circle to locate center I just split the compass and worked off the edge of the circle. Once I felt OK about my location it was just a matter of figuring the offset in the pump itself and flipping the pickup sock 180'. I'll need to build a step onto the base of the cover to accommodate the offset on the tanks surface but that's another day.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

and the $$$ shot

Attached Image

Posted by: euro911 Aug 26 2013, 02:33 PM

You're pretty good with that sheet metal fab, Kent thumb3d.gif


When I mentioned an extra motor mount, I was thinking more along the lines of a front engine mount utilizing sort of rubber dampener to the firewall, rather than at the tranny idea.gif

It just seems to me that a front mount will allow for a bit more aggressive driving confused24.gif

Posted by: ruby914 Aug 26 2013, 08:03 PM

Hi Kent,
As I was reworking my cradle or at this point I could just call it a X-bar, I spent a lot of time thinking about the load distribution.
The lower Suby mounts are just about the CG of my WRX/901 combo. So all the static load is on the lower mounts. Under power the motor wants to pivot about the drive shafts. That takes load off of the lower mounts and more downward force on the 901 ears. Downshift and you get the opposite, down on the motor and up on the transaxle mounts. The 901 ears may have very little static load but under hard driving may take a beating. Braking may also push the motor forward and down about the lower mounts. With all that said, if an upper transaxle mount was horizontal it should better control loads under the torque of the motor. Am I over thinking it? Missing something? confused24.gif The way Subaru hung the motor or at least they way we 914 guys are doing it, just seems strange. Anyway, with the upper mount, I would be able to pull the transaxle without touching the motor. smile.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 27 2013, 09:29 AM

Hey Mike and Mark, I was at Hershel's (nineonefoursix) yesterday so we popped the hood and scratched our heads as we tried to figure it out. It won't help w/ torsional loads (at engine centerline) and not much vertical load (hanging) either. The connector between the tranny and firewall is like our bumper "dog bone" but elongated and will twist with little effort. It is angled down and aims at the front bumper. Makes me wonder if it is a brace for 4 wheeling when you are at an extreme downhill attitude. ?? The main reason I haven't (notice I didn't say didn't) run a brace from the firewall to engine is that I am not sure where one would connect to the front area of the engine. I haven't seen any suitable attach points on the engine itself. Not what I would consider load bearing points anyway. Next time I have it out I will check closely. Maybe a boss in that area that could be tapped?? I also considered connecting the cross brace with the firewall to cut down on for/aft movement but the tranny attach point is solid and should keep the engine combo in check when braking hard. In other words; I have no idea what I'm doing and time will tell. huh.gif

Posted by: DBCooper Aug 27 2013, 10:11 AM

In the first iteration of my car we used the 901 transmission, and my son broke one of the transmission mounting ears drag racing. Power shift, boom. After it was fixed I removed the engine cover and you could see the engine twist under load. For the second iteration with the Subaru transmission we used a pretty substantial urethane mount at the rear of the transmission that seems to have effectively eliminated torsional twist and any other movement. No problems so far and the poor car has been severely thrashed by a whole bunch of different people. Well, maybe not "thrashed" exactly, better to say "tested".

By the way, the other thing we did with the second iteration was change the intercooler location from the top of the engine compartment to a water-air at the front of the car. The engine cover was off so we could experiment with air flow, to see if we could make intercooler work there. I never saw how, so we changed it from the engine cover to the front of the car, where Porsche located their oil coolers. I sincerely doubt you could make a radiator located there cool the car, no matter what engine. I'm curious, but doubtful enough myself that I'd prefer someone else did the experimentation. So I could just watch.


Posted by: 76-914 Aug 27 2013, 02:27 PM

Hey DB. I've read your thread a-z several times. I may know it better than you. laugh.gif I've stolen some of your idea's and as soon as I get my exhaust started I can begin stealing your shift set up, too. biggrin.gif Emulation being the sincerest form of flattery pray.gif Hopefully I won't twist the Suby Trans off it's mount. I liked your trans mount but didn't want to source that urethane mount. That is probably a 'stock" item for a fabricator but not your average shade tree guy so I stayed with factory rubber mount. I hope it's strong enough. I won't being driving mine as hard as you. If it ever actually becomes drivable I want to "bum" someones GoPro and watch what goes on in the engine compartment. OT: I saw a film of a Lycoming under load and I wished I hadn't. blink.gif I'm with you on cooling up front in the undisturbed air. I've read too many threads where others have failed. I think Chris even gave up on cooling his N/A engine back there.

Posted by: ruby914 Aug 27 2013, 05:12 PM

Kent,

A quick search for that top mount got me this quote:
"The Subaru Pitch Control Mount is found under the factory top-mount intercooler (installation is simple) between the fire wall and the front end of the transmission. The pitch mount is designed to produce crisper gear shifts by preventing the front end of the transmission from pitching up or down, forward and back."


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/images/P/TS-SU-011-2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/torque-solution-02-subaru-wrx-sti-billet-aluminum_pitch-stop-tranny-mount-ts-su-011.html&usg=__0aWTOxmBZTZOGhXSI7F0SwO53LE=&h=375&w=500&sz=23&hl=en&start=3&zoom=1&tbnid=ZPBZ5MBmHaTh1M:&tbnh=98&tbnw=130&ei=iTAdUv3MJ8T4yAH5_oDoDg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwrx%2Btop%2Btransmission%2Bmount%26um%3D1%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:*%26hl%3Den%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&sa=X&ved=0CDIQrQMwAg

Posted by: DBCooper Aug 28 2013, 06:06 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 27 2013, 01:27 PM) *

Hey DB. I've read your thread a-z several times. I may know it better than you. laugh.gif I've stolen some of your idea's and as soon as I get my exhaust started I can begin stealing your shift set up, too. biggrin.gif Emulation being the sincerest form of flattery pray.gif Hopefully I won't twist the Suby Trans off it's mount. I liked your trans mount but didn't want to source that urethane mount. That is probably a 'stock" item for a fabricator but not your average shade tree guy so I stayed with factory rubber mount. I hope it's strong enough. I won't being driving mine as hard as you. If it ever actually becomes drivable I want to "bum" someones GoPro and watch what goes on in the engine compartment. OT: I saw a film of a Lycoming under load and I wished I hadn't. blink.gif I'm with you on cooling up front in the undisturbed air. I've read too many threads where others have failed. I think Chris even gave up on cooling his N/A engine back there.


Why thanks. You're right, those urethane mounts were in a box of miscellaneous stuff under the bench and I don't know where they came from originally. Sorry.

I swear that cable shifter is the best thing ever invented by man. If you want me to take clearer photos with a ruler held up for scale let me know. To repeat what I told Ian, when you make your shifter you really need to do it with the idea of duplicating it later for others. And not just for Subaru transmissions, if you modified the transmission end to fit tail and side shifters I'm pretty sure you'd have something every 914 owner would want. Especially those poor tail shifter folk.



Posted by: Chris H. Aug 28 2013, 06:42 AM

QUOTE
If you want me to take clearer photos with a ruler held up for scale let me know.


Since it's early and all, I''ll go ahead and answer for Kent....YES PLEASE! Pics with a ruler would be awesome! Need to get my cables ordered so it would be great to understand how to measure for them...

Posted by: OllieG Aug 28 2013, 07:05 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Aug 28 2013, 01:42 PM) *

QUOTE
If you want me to take clearer photos with a ruler held up for scale let me know.


Since it's early and all, I''ll go ahead and answer for Kent....YES PLEASE! Pics with a ruler would be awesome! Need to get my cables ordered so it would be great to understand how to measure for them...



Hi,

I've been following this great thread for a while in preparation of my Suby conversion, lurking in the sidelines so to speak, as I'm still just in the very early stages of body prep.. But I've seen your shifter vid DB and that thing is a work of art!..would love to know the specs so I can, well, copy it basically!! So I second Chris's enthusiasm..

Cheers, Ollie.

Posted by: David J Aug 28 2013, 01:10 PM

Me Three!

Posted by: Chris H. Sep 5 2013, 05:27 AM

icon_bump.gif How's it going Kent? Still waiting on trans parts?

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 5 2013, 09:29 AM

Yes, but that's not a real hold up. The last few days it's been the Wx. Too damned hot! The exhaust is the hiccup that's keeping me off the shifter build. I need to transition from oval to round tube within a limited space. It should begin a cool down later this week then I'm back into the electrical. I'm teetering between going full Suby electrical vs. a splice in, now. If in reality, I can shave several month's build time by using the 914's wiring where possible, I think I should. That and all my existing wiring is really primo. At this stage in life I shouldn't buy green bananas much less get into some lengthy project that might not be completed because of some unforeseen future medical issue. confused24.gif How's things on your end??

Posted by: DBCooper Sep 5 2013, 09:38 AM

Speaking of unforeseen medical issues I'll still get you the shifter photos, I've just wrenched my back and can't get to the car. So a little longer. Or maybe better pills.



Posted by: 76-914 Sep 5 2013, 11:51 AM

Hey DB, glad you posted. I forgot to mention; go ahead and post them here. I'm a little ways out on this and I know Chris and some others are awaiting some direction re: this. Take care of that back. BTDT.

Posted by: CptTripps Sep 5 2013, 11:55 AM

agree.gif with taking care of your back and agree.gif with wanting pics of your shifter!

Posted by: Chris H. Sep 5 2013, 12:24 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Sep 5 2013, 10:29 AM) *

Yes, but that's not a real hold up. The last few days it's been the Wx. Too damned hot! The exhaust is the hiccup that's keeping me off the shifter build. I need to transition from oval to round tube within a limited space. It should begin a cool down later this week then I'm back into the electrical. I'm teetering between going full Suby electrical vs. a splice in, now. If in reality, I can shave several month's build time by using the 914's wiring where possible, I think I should. That and all my existing wiring is really primo. At this stage in life I shouldn't buy green bananas much less get into some lengthy project that might not be completed because of some unforeseen future medical issue. confused24.gif How's things on your end??


I'm waiting for another intake to come in...should be here next week. Engine is too far forward to use the stock one, plus I don't like it because it's a massive piece of plastic. It was a pain to find a substitute because very few cars have a split dual "snorkel" intake. Mitsubishi 3000GTVR4 if anyone else has the problem.

I decided to splice into the 914 harness. If your 914 wiring is in good shape it will save you a lot of time and energy. With the SVX you just separate the engine and body harnesses and splice into the 914 harness at the former relay board connection (you don't need the board any more, just splice into the 14 pin harness. At Jeff Bowlsby's site you can see how simple the wiring is:

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zTN_Elect_14-pinConnector.jpg

You use the Subie fuel pump relay and ignition relay. I can send you some links when you get closer.

Sorry to hear about the back DB! We'll wait for you. There are enough great pics of your setup out there already for me to start looking for mounting brackets.

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Sep 5 2013, 12:57 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Sep 5 2013, 11:29 AM) *

The exhaust is the hiccup that's keeping me off the shifter build. I need to transition from oval to round tube within a limited space.


Outfront has the exhaust flanges in stock. The rest is pretty easy. I'll send a link on how I did mine as soon as I get home.
Heres some pictures from the RS25 site.
Attached Image
Attached Image

Bob

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 5 2013, 10:50 PM

Thx Bob, I did buy the flanges on your suggestion. I took them to a muffler fab shop and but it stopped there. I'll use your pic's and show them to the muffler guy. What size should I run? 1 1/2"?? Just came in from the mental gauntlet called the harness. blink.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 13 2013, 08:50 PM

After a few temper tantrums, lots of cussing and bit of whining I think I've got this whittled down to a manageable size. A few more wires to trace out, test fit, trim, etc. It's one of those 95% complete and 95% to go, things.

The first trimming

Attached Image

Attached Image

This was the first pile culled

Attached Image

Got tired of scrubbing the garage floor with my knees so I went vertical. Here is the final few pieces hung and ready to plunder.

Attached Image

A closer look

Attached Image

and a close of the other side

Attached Image

Here it is completely scalped a few hours later. happy11.gif

Attached Image


A closer look w/ all components, I think

Attached Image

And the bone yard. Might be a few bucks scrape here.

Attached Image

Posted by: '73-914kid Sep 13 2013, 11:54 PM

I seriously applaud your the amount of effort and labor you are putting into this Kent, It's gonna be spectacular when you're done. That sure is a hell of a lot of wiring though.. If it doesn't make you go insane, it sure will leave your mind nice and sharp. People pay good money for puzzles and "brain training" exercises. You've got them beat by a bunch. happy11.gif

Part of me is really glad I went this route... so much simpleness. biggrin.gif
IPB Image

Posted by: DBCooper Sep 14 2013, 10:31 AM

QUOTE('73-914kid @ Sep 13 2013, 10:54 PM) *

Part of me is really glad I went this route... so much simpleness. biggrin.gif
IPB Image


Almost everything involves trade-offs, giving up something to get something else. For example if you jet for near sea level, where you live, your poor car will be hacking climbing up over 6000 feet. assuming of course that those carbs are still well synced and the jets all clean. He's putting more work into it now, but will never have any of those issues, and as a bonus will have a car that starts easier, has more power, and gets better mileage the whole time.

Don't get me wrong, I still love carburetors myself, can't beat the look and that sound, but as I get older I find there are a lot of little things competing for my attention. I appreciate that fuel injection, once set up, just works, and works well, no muss, no fuss. But yes, it's true, I AM lazy.

Posted by: Chris H. Sep 14 2013, 12:53 PM

Nice work Kent! Don't get rid of that extra wire yet. You'll need to extend several of yours for things like the radiator fans, etc.

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 17 2013, 09:13 PM

Hey thanks Ethan, that means a lot coming from an over achiever like you. I think your conversion was a feat considering you did it a few weeks before school resumed while working. smilie_pokal.gif

DB, you read my mind. All 3 min's worth. av-943.gif

Thanks Chris, You were probably grinning from ear to ear while I fussed with the harness, having been there. Anyway, I want to give credit where credit is due but first I need to back up a few weeks. After staring at 40+ lb's of wiring for a few weeks I decided to just jump in and began cutting. Thank goodness my Subaru factory manual arrived just days later or I would have had a real mess on my hands headbang.gif . After perusing the wiring diagram I realized that I had cut some wires that were needed and from what I could tell I had my work cut out for me. Since I had already caved in about using all the Suby harness' I decided to save myself some more time and ordered the smallcar directions for the VW Van conversion. This was a GOOD decision. First, my manual was missing a few updates that I would have missed. But more importantly was the support that I've received from the tech dept. Mel is the person in tech (and I'll bet the owner, too) that I deal with. He is a Prince to work with, seems always available and knows what the Hell he is talking about. He's been into Suby's forever and his enthusiasm is testimony to his love for his craft. Just wanted to pass this on to you guys getting ready to convert. Unless you are a Mike, Tom, Geoff or a EE I would suggest spending $175 with smallcar.com. The support is phenomenal. smilie_pokal.gif
So here is a pic of the almost complete harness tidied up. The looms are not taped in place because some lengths or wires for that matter av-943.gif , will change after it is fitted in it's new home.

Look closely at the first 2 pic's. I needed to add to this line and rolled off some wire, cut to length and noticed that although the sheaths were the same the gauges were different. huh.gif Notice how much larger the sheath is on the one that matches the gauge. WTF.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

And the semi-finished product. I'm glad I did this and I'm happy to be done with it.

Attached Image

This area will get covered with loom but not until the last.
Attached Image

Posted by: kg6dxn Sep 18 2013, 08:02 AM

looks good! smilie_pokal.gif

Do your self a favor and do not do a final wrap of the harness until all the bugs are worked out and the car runs great.

I've been having some intermittent issues and has to strip and chase every single wire. All were connected correctly but I found a loose connection in the factory temp sensor plug.

Posted by: 904svo Sep 18 2013, 09:12 AM

Do yourself a favor check all the grounds and battery connections at the plugs!!!
This will save you a great amount of time. Not trouble shooting battery and ground
problems when you try to start the engine.

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 18 2013, 09:47 AM

Mike and you have both said basically the same thing and coming from 2 of our elec guru's, it looks like the ohm meter needs a workout. Thanks for the tips. I'm not shy and I'm thick skinned so keep 'em coming. beerchug.gif

Posted by: kg6dxn Sep 18 2013, 12:01 PM

Don't be afraid to pull on each wire at each connection. If you find a bad one, it is much easier to fix while it's out of the car.

Ask me how I know... dry.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 18 2013, 12:24 PM

Good point. I shouldn't blindly accept the work of another. An EE showed me what pulling on one means. I was surprised by the amount of force he used but that's what's necessary. BTW, where can a guy buy a decent ratcheting crimper for less than an arm and leg? I remember that style crimper seemed to get it tight & right the first time, every time. And thanks for the electrical help from you Ace's. Not my strong point and just knowing that "those in the know" are watching is comforting to say the least. Before I moved out here I used to hang with 3-4 EE's and never had to concern myself with much electrical. Thx for picking up where my old buddies left off.

Posted by: kg6dxn Sep 18 2013, 02:03 PM

The crimper I use was made by Molex. I cost $125, 15 years ago.

mouser electronics can help you find one.

Posted by: Dtjaden Sep 18 2013, 02:42 PM

Here are some options from Grainger:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/search.shtml?searchQuery=Terminal&withinSearch.x=0&withinSearch.y=0&op=search&Ntt=Terminal&sst=subset&N=4293734508

Note that there are different tools for insulated and bare terminals.

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 18 2013, 08:21 PM

Thanks, I ordered a Greenlee tonight. $56.00 w/ tx/shpg. Not bad. biggrin.gif Everything I've done on the harness thus far was soldered so I ask; do you guy's use di-electric grease on crimp joints?

Posted by: 904svo Sep 18 2013, 08:56 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Sep 18 2013, 06:21 PM) *

Thanks, I ordered a Greenlee tonight. $56.00 w/ tx/shpg. Not bad. biggrin.gif Everything I've done on the harness thus far was soldered so I ask; do you guy's use di-electric grease on crimp joints?


Not required if in a dry environment.

Posted by: 76-914 Nov 8 2013, 10:12 AM

I'm back after it after a 5 week hiatus. I thought that f*&$#ing bug was going to kill me and my whining damn near killed my wife. laugh.gif Let's see, where did I leave off? The wiring barf.gif . I have most of the new wiring done and installed though not tested or properly installed in the looms. I was glad that I saved the Suby wiring grommets as they came in handy. I'll post some pic's of this later. I pulled the drive train to replace some hoses and other odds n ends before reinstalling for one of the last times, I hope!

While out I thought I'd try removing the power steering pump which isn't needed.

Attached Image

Attached Image

First attempt was with a 47" belt which was too loose. I used this pic with the PS pump still installed to show how much the geometry changes as related to the tensioner. When the belt went around the large pulley of the pump the tensioner was effective but as you see in the final pics it is less effective. I ended up using a 46.5" belt which was Hell to install. Very tight to slip on even with the tensioner relaxed. I think it is tight enough but time will tell. I may have to re-install the pump just for the use of that pully.

This is the 47" belt. A little too loose.

Attached Image

The 46.5" belt installed

Attached Image

I could use a little help here. Any Suby guys here that can identify these fuel hoses? I can't seem to locate that info in the manuals. slap.gif What are #1,2 & 3? Is #4 a filter. Are any of these not used? I assume that gas enters the canister #4 to the fuel rail via #1. #2 is the return? #3 fuel vapor????

Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. Nov 8 2013, 12:45 PM

Welcome back Kent! Glad you're well again.

The big cylinder thingy to the left labeled #4 is your fuel filter. Replace it when you do your next parts order. They are cheap. The fuel flow is - out of the tank and into the fuel filter first, so that would mean that #1 is most likely your "line in". Since #2 is the exact same hose type that is probably your "line out" return line back to the tank exactly like the FI teener setup. Check the manual again for #3. Probably a vapor thing but just make sure it's not pressurized...most likely goes to a canister or back through the manifold or something. But make suuuure. Be careful and also make sure your hose clamps are very tight....we're going to 60 psi now! Yeeehaaaaa!

Posted by: strawman Nov 10 2013, 10:27 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Nov 8 2013, 08:12 AM) *


I could use a little help here. Any Suby guys here that can identify these fuel hoses? I can't seem to locate that info in the manuals. slap.gif What are #1,2 & 3? Is #4 a filter. Are any of these not used? I assume that gas enters the canister #4 to the fuel rail via #1. #2 is the return? #3 fuel vapor????

Attached Image


This topic made we wince... my turbo Suby Teener project was stalled for a couple of weeks until I figured out that I mixed up the inlet and return hoses. Once I figured it out, my car purred!

I agree with Chris H. that #1 is the inlet, #2 is the outlet, and #3 is a vapor breather line. Well, at least that is what mine looks like (see the pic below) -- the inlet is the one on the left and the outlet is the one on the right, underneath the air-to-water intercooler. What originally tricked me was that I assumed the inlet pipe should feed the fuel pressure regulator; in actuality, the pipe coming out of the fuel pressure regulator feeds back to the fuel tank. Hope this makes sense.

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Nov 11 2013, 06:28 PM

Thanks Chris & Geoff, Wasn't sure and damned if I can find that in print, yet..... blink.gif Saturday I rolled the drivetrain back into position to mark where the truck gets cut and to begin the shifter fabrication. I think I'm going to just say "stuff" from now on. It's easier to spell. I'm using the MR2 shifter. I'm not sure how it was mounted in the Toyo but it won't set flush on any flat surface so it needed to be raised about 1.5 - 2". In keeping with my CSOB ways all the metal was from pile o' stromberg.gif .

The 1-2, 3-4, 5-R gates are controlled by the rotation of the shaft, An 1/8" flat lever was drilled & welded onto a piece of 5/8" tube, .095 IIRC. My shifter has appx 30mm travel or 15mm 1/2 travel. Borrowing "heavily" from DB Cooper's build I began to search for the sweet spot in the lever. I want to have about 13-14mm between the gates which is slightly less than the maximum travel of the shifter. I may end up adding some limiters o the shifter itself, later. confused24.gif This little gizmo allowed me to measure the travel and locate the attach point of the cable.

Edit : Opps, hit the wrong button. Will add the rest of this on the next page


Attached image(s)
Attached Image Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Nov 11 2013, 07:18 PM

Round 2. dry.gif

Attached Image

These guy's were of no help

Attached Image

This was the starting point for mounting the shifter. 2ea.- 5.5" pieces of 1/8 x 2" angle. These were drilled to match the existing tapped holes for the old shifter. A basic "T" configuration. KISS. The back 2 bolts are symbolic. One 13mm German/one 12mm Nippon; same thread. beer.gif The blue tape has center line marks of the old shifter. I set mine back a few inch's to accommodate me.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

A 9.5" x 5.5" x 1/8" plate was cut out to allow for shifter recess then placed on the angle and tacked into place. I''ll weld it up later.

Attached Image

Attached Image

A quick test fit to be sure the console fits. I'll make another piece of burled aluminum to cover this area as it was before.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Mounted the shifter. Look close you will see the felt tip measurements on the side of the shifter. As mentioned earlier, the piece on the left side moves for and aft as the stick is moved left and right. I know. It's freeking magic but it does. blink.gif This movement is 15mm & 15mm. The eyelet on the shift rod is the one that controls movement between 1&2 or 3&4 or 5&R. Or the in-out action of the rod on the transmission. The travel here is 60mm or twice what's needed at the tranny so I will most likely lower the eyelet appx 13mm.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Now it's point "A" to point "B" measurement time. Stole this idea from Bob. Looks like 6.5' and 7.5'.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Nov 14 2013, 07:54 PM

While I'm waiting for the cables to come in I jumped back to the tank to make this gasket for the Suby fuel pump. The tank isn't so flat at one end of the cut out so I cut this cork gasket from a 3/8" sheet. Now I need to decide whether to use rivenuts or plate nuts for the bolts. idea.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image


Posted by: Chris H. Nov 14 2013, 09:38 PM

Nice work Kent! Looks like the cable shifter is a lot more fine tuning than I imagined...hoping Ian will get one cooking soon. Getting organized for another blast of work on mine. Been really cold out here.

Posted by: Chris H. Nov 15 2013, 07:23 AM

Hey BTW not sure if this will help at all but the cableshift.com website has instructions for adjusting their cable shift setups. Their Subie setup is different than the way we plan to do it but it might help you anyway:

http://www.cableshift.com/Subaru/Subaru_Instructions.pdf

There are several other cable shift setups on there too.

Posted by: 76-914 Nov 21 2013, 02:26 PM

The cables arrived and I couldn't wait to hook 'em up. Yes, I think I could have shortened them by 6" or so but I took the safe route. The first thing was to get the MR2 shifter to accept the 1/4" cables. As you can see in the first pic, this peg is 10mm in diameter; too large for the 1/4" hiem joint. And the other side looks like it was set up for some type of clevis joint. I thought the clevis might intro some unneeded slop so I welded a 1/4" shoulder bolt thru this opening as well.

Attached Image

So I ground it off flush and welded a 1/4" shoulder bolt in it's place.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Once I began to move the shifter thru it's pattern I found a clearance issue so I had to grind down an overblown factory weld.

Attached Image

Then the head of this bolt needed to be ground down a tad. Now everything moves about freely.

Attached Image

The cables attached in the cabin......It was necessary to remove the plastic bushing on the firewall where the shift rod had passed thru. Odd that the bushing was a Royal PITA to install yet popped out quite easily. WTF.gif Once removed it was possible to fit the cables thru that opening after removing the nuts and washers. I'll get pic's from the rear in the next post. I need to find the engine mount bolts that I put somewhere when I was sick. headbang.gif

Attached Image

So while I look for the bolts for the motor mount I moved onto finish the fuel pump install. But before I can install the pump I need to level out the tanks surface. The tank offsets just a tad next to the flanged area where the tank halves join together. This is a 1.25" x 15" piece of square stock that is clamped here. You can see the hump if you look closely.

Attached Image

With a bit of hammering against the stock piece it flattened out well.

Attached Image

Now the pilot holes are enlarged to accept the rivenuts.Attached Image

Attached Image

Then a final clean before the Rivenuts & JB Weld.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Let the JB Weld set up overnight then attached the pump housing. It fit! piratenanner.gif

Attached Image






Posted by: strawman Nov 22 2013, 05:39 PM

Before you weld up the shifter mounting base, you might want to consider raising it. I had to mock up a system to raise mine a few inches and move it back so that I didn't have to lean over to reach it. I'd suggest mounting the driver seat and making sure he ergonomics are correct before finalizing everything, since the first-gen Toyota MR2 shifter is short compared to the stock 914 shifter. I still need to weld up a final mount system.

Be sure you make vroom-vroom noises while checking it all out...

Posted by: 76-914 Nov 23 2013, 08:57 AM

Good point, Geoff. I did set the shifter back a few inches and centered it within the console but I'd better put the seat in, as you've suggested, for the real world scenario. Thx!

Posted by: 76-914 Nov 23 2013, 09:48 PM

I was able to finish up with the shifter fab today so I thought I'd throw out a few dimensions here 'n there for others. You will need one 15" piece of 2x2 angle 1/8" thick. Cut one piece 6", one piece 5", one piece 1 7/8", one piece 1 5/8". Pieces will not fit flush against one another because of the filet or curvature unless you grind off about 1/8" where the pieces lap together. There are two 12mm holes drilled to attach this to the transmission. They are drilled 40mm apart c/c and staggered 2mm as shown. The 6" piece gets a 7/8"x1 1/4" section removed for clearance of a trans bolt. The 1 5/8" piece is placed in a vice and squeezed to open 15 degrees then reduced to 1" wide on it's other side. This is necessary to allow for the 20 degree angle while keeping the bulkhead in line and centered. I haven't cut the levered piece to it's final length because I want to play with some different throws but I pretty sure it will stay where it is. It shifts like a brand new car and I can't wait to drive this new set up. It still needs to be tidied up, painted, etc. Anyway I'm going to throw a bunch of pics at you. It's pretty self explanatory but ask if you have any ???

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: rick 918-S Nov 23 2013, 10:30 PM

Nice Kent! What is the HP of that 6? I'm working on an idea for a mid-engine shop truck and was thinking a Sub 6 would be the answer. I would need enough hp to pull a trailer. (my trailer with a 914 on it)


Posted by: euro911 Nov 23 2013, 10:58 PM

Industrious bugger, ain't ya?

Looks nice. Neat 'wheelie bar' too laugh.gif

Attached Image

Posted by: DBCooper Nov 23 2013, 11:11 PM

I'm happy you were able to get it worked out, since I still can't get down on the ground. Well, I could get down but probably not back up. At the end of the day it's pretty simple, isn't it? It makes all the difference in the world in how the car drives.

I need to take some photos of the way my shifter's mounted, it's a little different than your setup. Well done.



Posted by: Chris H. Nov 24 2013, 12:43 PM

Whoa....Kent...that's above and beyond.... pray.gif Thanks man.

Even I could do that using your instructions.

Hoping to have some time over the holidays to get serious about the project again.

Hey were both cables a little long? Actually hoping so because I want to use the Honda shifter and it might be a little different.

Nice work!!!!!! first.gif


Posted by: 76-914 Nov 24 2013, 12:52 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Nov 23 2013, 08:30 PM) *

Nice Kent! What is the HP of that 6? I'm working on an idea for a mid-engine shop truck and was thinking a Sub 6 would be the answer. I would need enough hp to pull a trailer. (my trailer with a 914 on it)

IIRC, 230hp Rick. The 3.3's are cheaper, longer, heavier and have a few more horses. If you go 2004 or newer you'll be "fly by wire", +30 hp, ACAV. Gets complicated.

QUOTE(euro911 @ Nov 23 2013, 08:58 PM) *

Industrious bugger, ain't ya?

Looks nice. Neat 'wheelie bar' too laugh.gif
You know, not really. This was the easiest mod I've done to this car, yet! As pristine as my '76's shifter is....it is a turd compared to this cable set up. aktion035.gif
Attached Image



QUOTE(DBCooper @ Nov 23 2013, 09:11 PM) *

I'm happy you were able to get it worked out, since I still can't get down on the ground. Well, I could get down but probably not back up. At the end of the day it's pretty simple, isn't it? It makes all the difference in the world in how the car drives.

I need to take some photos of the way my shifters mounted, it's a little different than your setup. Well done.

Well thank you DB. Emulation being the sincerest form of flattery. biggrin.gif Or more bluntly; I copied from your build. happy11.gif I didn't have that curved piece and was too lazy to make one. I tried to closely align the cable with travel path of the push rod in the tranny to lessen the cable force. Other than that I stole from your post. Hey DB, do you have back up lights? I noticed that you have the back up and neutral senders looped together. And yes, it is pretty simple in the end. I couldn't wait to rant here about how well it shifted, How precise and crisp it feels. Then I remembered you had already said what I felt. thumb3d.gif You did not exaggerate.

Posted by: 76-914 Dec 1 2013, 09:49 PM

Sorry Chris, I missed your response earlier. Yes, they are 6" too long but no big deal.

I got back to the gas tank today and finished it. It was fun but I'm glad it's over. Maybe I should have left it with the delivery system it had used previously but this Subaru pump is up to date, easily available, cheap and #1 safer! Lots of prep time measuring. The old adage "measure twice cut once" was never truer. I got azzhole lucky and everything fit. I saw this setup in a pic somewhere, liked it and copied it. It is Bob's (BIGKAT) idea to use the Impreza pump and relocating OEM sender. I didn't have the measurements when I began but I do now. If you go the same route hit me up I'll share them.

As mentioned in another thread I welded the ends closed on the tank nipples.

Attached Image

The last mod to this tank will be to relocate the fuel sender. I need the new location to clear the hold down strap and the new fuel pump assembly while staying in line with the "channel" or deepest part. The tank baffle is within an inch of the sender so watch it! I used the old seal to mark for the cut out and bolt hole location.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Here the holes are prep'd for JB Weld on the rivenuts.

Attached Image

After the epoxy has set it is test fit with the new cork gasket.

Attached Image

Attached Image

This is a fender washer that I cut to retain the screen pick up which I had to rotate 180 degrees to fit inside the "bucket" section of the tank. This bucket is where the old tank outlet was. Once the screen was rotated the part which had held it in place is now sticking out with nothing to hold it down. Hence this horseshoe piece is riveted in place and holds down that unsupported part is now captured. You can see it beneath the washer. It's a white plastic piece.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Clean tank, reassemble, strap down, connect fuel sender and temp wire nut pump.

Attached Image

Attached Image



Attached image(s)
Attached Image Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Dec 12 2013, 11:06 PM

Something new. I wired the fan system and learned a great deal in the process. It's covered in this thread. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=226470 If your going twin fan there is an excellent schematic shown there and it would behoove you to print it. I ran 14ga wire and placed it in the some loom that I pulled from the donor. The only thing left is to pull the tank so I can run the harness beneath the tank then up to the relay bank. The green & black wires now running over the tank will be under it and trimmed to final length.

Got a grommet in place and ran this 8ga thru

Attached Image

Up thru the tunnel

Attached Image

and out thru another grommet

Attached Image

to

Attached Image

to

Attached Image

to my relay block that I lifted from the donor car. It has 2 30 amp fuses that are used on 3 of these relays. The others will need their own fuses. The relay that sits off to the side is the 5 pole (DTSP?) relay. It all mounts to the reservoir bracket after the speed clip is removed and a 6061 sleeve/bolt is used in place.

Attached Image

The blue wires on the right are the hi & lo speed switch wires, and remainder are wired into existing ign system. The Bk and Gr wires on the left side are the 14 ga wires to the fans.

Attached Image


Attached image(s)
Attached Image Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. Dec 13 2013, 07:25 AM

Great work! You might DRIVE that thing soon! What's next? Hydraulic clutch?

Posted by: CptTripps Dec 13 2013, 10:29 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Nov 23 2013, 10:48 PM) *

I was able to finish up with the shifter fab today so I thought I'd throw out a few dimensions here 'n there for others....


Awesome post man. Thanks! If Ian isn't able to get something going, I'll be building one just like this for myself. How about a few angles on the part that connects to the shift rod?

Posted by: 76-914 Dec 13 2013, 12:06 PM

Hey Chris, This is what still needs to be done, AFAIK. I have the 1/2 shafts to convert; test ECU wiring; make a intake breather; clutch conversion. I usually choose the most daunting task so it's not there to haunt me. Given that, I'll probably do the clutch next biggrin.gif Have any tips or info for me re: the clutch? I'm all ears. I've read PCR's post on converting. Which route are you headed?

Hey Doug, Let me know if this answers your question. See post #175. There are 2 pieces that have an angle. First is the 1" wide piece of the angle that the cable (running parallel with the trans) passes thru. Before it is welded on it is placed in a vice and compressed or splayed 15 degrees more for a total of 105 degrees. This angle places the cable in line with the shift rod angle. This same piece is welded in place with a 20 degree offset to place the cable end as close as possible to the shift rod. The other piece is the one with two holes drilled in it where the bracket attaches to the tranny. There is a 2mm difference between the center of those two holes which sets the 3rd angle.

Posted by: Chris H. Dec 13 2013, 01:18 PM

Of course I haven't started the clutch but I do have the parts...

Now for the shocker...I COPIED MIKE BELLIS AND BIGKAT.

My plan is to use a Wilwood master cylinder push style (3/4 but we'll talk about that later) with Aeroquip -3AN braided hose with a threaded pressure fitting at the MC end and the required 10mm banjo fitting at the slave cylinder end (using the stock slave cylinder). Have to fab up something at the pedal cluster to compress the master when the clutch is pushed.

In most cases they say match your slave and master cylinders but you really don't have to because the clutch throw will be different. I think Bob mentioned he wished he had a 5/8 at one point and if he has the stock slave it's an 11/16 or 3/4. Might not make much of a difference....I have the part numbers for the fittings and stuff if you need 'em.

Which way are you going on the half shafts? Subie inners and re-splining the axles?

Posted by: 76-914 Dec 14 2013, 10:15 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Dec 13 2013, 11:18 AM) *

Of course I haven't started the clutch but I do have the parts...

Now for the shocker...I COPIED MIKE BELLIS AND BIGKAT.

My plan is to use a Wilwood master cylinder push style (3/4 but we'll talk about that later) with Aeroquip -3AN braided hose with a threaded pressure fitting at the MC end and the required 10mm banjo fitting at the slave cylinder end (using the stock slave cylinder). Have to fab up something at the pedal cluster to compress the master when the clutch is pushed.

In most cases they say match your slave and master cylinders but you really don't have to because the clutch throw will be different. I think Bob mentioned he wished he had a 5/8 at one point and if he has the stock slave it's an 11/16 or 3/4. Might not make much of a difference....I have the part numbers for the fittings and stuff if you need 'em.

Which way are you going on the half shafts? Subie inners and re-splining the axles?

Sure, I'll take part numbers, links and anything else that you have. Yes, I do plan on keeping the suby inners with re-splined bus axles, 944's outers, I think. I just pulled the pedal assm out last nite and began scratching my head. blink.gif I'm using the same factory slave set up as you.

Posted by: Chris H. Dec 15 2013, 11:35 AM

No problem sir....

Here's what I picked up:

The Wilwood 3/4 bore M/C with remote reservoir.

Looks like this:

Attached Image

Bought it from this e-bay seller...still there and seems like a good deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilwood-Remote-Master-Cylinder-Reservoir-3-4-Bore-Kit-Combination-Aluminum-/190984990289?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c7797ae51&vxp=mtr

Then I pm'ed BIGKAT and Mike Bellis because I didn't understand how to connect the lines to the MC and Slave. BIGKAT reminded me that this isn't very complicated so I shouldn't over-think it and gave me several recommendations. Mike B. recommended using -3AN braided stainless PTFE hose. He also said NOT TO BUY THE CHEAP HOSE so I bought this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aer-fcc0310/overview/

Aeroquip is good stuff. Bought 10 feet because Mike pointed out that unless I left some slack I would have to disconnect, drain, reconnect and re-bleed the clutch every time I dropped the engine. And with a conversion we're learning you have to do that a lot at the beginning.

On the MC end you need this fitting:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aer-fbm1100/overview/

I also thought you needed another "adapter" fitting so I bought several others but this screws right into the fitting that comes with the MC.

For the Subie slave you need a 10MM Banjo fitting I bought this one:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aer-fbm3091/overview/

One thing you should know is that it is thicker than the stock Subie fitting, which means you may have to take some material off of it. I have both stock and this one and will post pics so you see what I mean. Might be a non-issue but if so it shouldn't be hard to shave a little off of the loop if need be.

Think that's all I have but I'll check the box later today. I'll also post the pedal setup I was looking at copying...have that link marked somewhere...this is where you come in and show me how to do that. biggrin.gif It's REALLLLY cold here so plenty of time to watch you work!

Posted by: Mike Bellis Dec 15 2013, 12:03 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Dec 13 2013, 11:18 AM) *

Now for the shocker...I COPIED MIKE BELLIS AND BIGKAT.

I don't recommend copying anything I do. It might get you in trouble, or worse. What the hell do I know? blink.gif screwy.gif


Actually, glad I could help. I'm always watching these threads for ideas to steal. cheer.gif

Posted by: Chris H. Dec 15 2013, 12:24 PM

I admire your modesty Mike. You probably don't realize how helpful you are. The questions I asked you were very elementary based on your experience but you responded with a couple of paragraphs of clear, concise information. I only bugged you because there wasn't anything on the site at the time that explained the actual lines and fittings (use the "search" first everybody!) Hope I can help you out someday beerchug.gif .

Hey Kent, here's the clutch setup I was looking at copying...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=75785&hl=

Looks like you flip the fork around the other way and attach it to the MC pin, then cut a hole in the floor (yikes) so it sits similar to the brake MC. LOOKS pretty straight forward but...we'll see. That bracket would be fairly easy to make I would think. Is this the setup you were looking at?

Posted by: Chris H. Dec 15 2013, 01:01 PM

OK last one...Here's that banjo fitting...measured them and the thickness difference is only 1.5MM so it may not be a big deal.

This is the stock fitting compared to the banjo fitting available at Summitracing. Bought the stock setup before I knew what I was doing. You COULD buy the stock fitting (has about 15 inches of braided hose and a threaded end) and then just do a screw-on connector at the end of it. To me that's just another point of failure so just doing the pressure fitting. Plus the stock setup is about $30...with either fitting you need a couple of copper washers for top and bottom as well.

Attached Image

Height:


Attached Image

Another angle:

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Dec 16 2013, 12:48 PM

Wow, your a bloody plethora of info Christopher. I ordered the Wilton cylinder this AM. Before I order from Summit, I thought I would ask how the fitting is joined to the hose. Are mandrels req'd for joining? Yea, I had that write up too but wasn't sure about which mstr cyl to use. I'll note the measurements when I make it and we can exchange notes. I hear you about that cold weather. My shop heater is due in tomorrow. Just in the nick of time. It's been in the 40's & 50's here until this weekend happy11.gif . And Mike, there's no shame in stealing great ideas. At least I hope not. lol-2.gif After all, emulation is the most sincere form of flattery.

Posted by: Chris H. Dec 16 2013, 01:06 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Dec 16 2013, 12:48 PM) *

Before I order from Summit, I thought I would ask how the fitting is joined to the hose. Are mandrels req'd for joining?


This is really why I bugged Mike originally. I didn't get how they were joined. It's a pressure fitting apparently...looks fairly easy to assemble. Don't think you need much more than a vice and a wrench and some sort of lubricant. I bought the lube they sell and it comes in a huge bottle...waaaay more than you could ever possibly need. Ever. Happy to send you some if you want just PM me your address.

Check this video....




Yeah I'm really good at collecting info. Now I just need to DO SOMETHING WITH IT.

Posted by: CptTripps Dec 16 2013, 02:51 PM

Gas Tank Question: How are you getting ALL the metal shavings out of the tank? That seems like a scary place to have loose metal floating around. (Or will the filter grab it all?)


Just a question on how you're getting fluid to the clutch master:

I'm adding a Wilwood master cylinder to the stock 914 cluster, and thinking about how I'm going to get the fluid there. Since there are two lines out of the brake reservoir, could I use one for the clutch? (With a T if the other IS being used for a return.)

Just trying to think this through. The Wilwood that I bought has a integrated reservoir, so I was going to add an external.

Posted by: Chris H. Dec 16 2013, 02:58 PM

Hmmm...my initial response wasn't quite right so I overwrote it....ours has a remote reservoir....so you just find an attachment point in the trunk very similar to your brake fluid reservoir. Super easy. I wouldn't co-mingle your brake fluid with your clutch fluid...if you lose your clutch pressure your brakes could fail... Plus the Cap'n would have a flippin' heart attack. We don't want that. I'd see if you can add a remote reservoir to the one you have. There has to be some sort of conversion kit available....

This looks like one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/M813-REMOTE-BRAKE-MASTER-CYLINDER-RESERVOIR-KIT-M35A2-M809-5-TON-DEUCE-/111203089689?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19e4387d19&vxp=mtr

Not saying that's "the one" for you but just an example. Appears to be for large military vehicles....but you get the idea... biggrin.gif

Posted by: CptTripps Dec 16 2013, 03:47 PM

Oh it's not a big deal to add one. I think I already bought the kit. Just thinking out loud.

Posted by: 76-914 Dec 16 2013, 08:47 PM

[quote name='CptTripps' date='Dec 16 2013, 12:51 PM' post='1971290']
Gas Tank Question: How are you getting ALL the metal shavings out of the tank? That seems like a scary place to have loose metal floating around. (Or will the filter grab it all?)

Before the 3 openings were closed I hit it with a brush, vacuumed and then stuck an air hose/blow gun in one opening my arm in another and blasted it with compressed air for a few minutes.


Posted by: Mike Bellis Dec 16 2013, 11:20 PM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Dec 16 2013, 12:51 PM) *

Since there are two lines out of the brake reservoir, could I use one for the clutch? (With a T if the other IS being used for a return.)

NO! NO! NO!

Don't mess with the brake reservoir. If you want to go this route, use a reservoir from a car designed to share with the clutch. Very hard to find. Some Japanese cars did this. The tap for the clutch fluid is near the top of the reservoir. So if it fails you still have brake fluid. If you use a T on the factory reservoir and it fails, you loose your brakes!!! I spent the day at Pick & Pull and could not find one I liked.

I used the Wilwood reservoir since my brakes work very well. Why FUCH with it?

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 4 2014, 11:46 AM

I've been putting this off as I do with all things that confuse me. biggrin.gif It felt like waiting for school to let out so the class bully could whip my ass. dry.gif But just like the proverbial ass whupping, "it 'twern't that bad." Thx to PRS914-6 for previously posting what he had done with the hydraulic set up. It was invaluable. I'm making 2 of these. One for Chris and one for me. Why? Chris is a good guy and has saved me me countless hours thru his perusing Suby articles and............ if it turns to stromberg.gif Chris will know it before me because his project is ahead of mine. Devious, yes? biggrin.gif Enough Pontificating! Here's how it's done. I used (as always) some scrap 3/16" plate steel and cut it into a few small sections as seen in this pic.

Attached Image

Then just keep them stacked as the holes are drilled out. This is faster (until one realizes that the prototype is wrong happy11.gif ) and insures correct duplication.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Some quick test fitting before I go much further...........

Attached Image

Attached Image

and to locate a spot to hang the reservoir. Real estate beneath the front hood is becoming scarce since I began this conversion. But the hose supplied by Wilwood was the "exact" length necessary. Crazy, huh?

Attached Image

While I'm in here I think I see a simple solution to the dreaded "brake flex" that I read about. I took this $3.18 weld tab (in SoCal. probably .35 everywhere else) and trimmed appx 1/8" of the tips so that it would set flush against the steering bar....

Attached Image

a quick polish to prevent cracking

Attached Image

Then enlarge the existing holes to 8mm (5/16") to match the hole in the weld tab. I'll enlarge both holes although I only need one. Future use. idea.gif

Attached Image

looking good

Attached Image

The original mounting plate is now trimmed to %80 of it's final shape

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

I needed to enlarge this plastic bushing to 8mm. Don't try this with a regular 8mm bit. Step drill it with a graduated bit or a suitably fluted bit for plastic. Otherwise, you'll destroy this bushing.

Attached Image

A few mocked up shots. The Heim joint shown will be replaced with a clevis fitting. Otherwise it is offset too much for my taste.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

I'm happy with the fit for now but I'm not so sure that I won't add something to dampen the sound transfer at some point.

Attached Image

Attached Image


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 4 2014, 12:01 PM

As mentioned earlier, the hose supplied was just the right length. I used the tab afixed to the tank to mount the reservoir. This took a few minutes as there is not a mm to spare. This manilla paper is almost too thick to squeeze in between.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Here is your mount, Chris. After the proto is final I will trim it and mail it off to you.

Attached Image

Some more with it in place. This is pretty much it except for the clevis joint which will be installed in place of the Heim joint; the hose still needs to be slid into place and connected and of course it will need to be tested. If anyone is interested I'll post the dimensions next time.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image


Attached image(s)
Attached Image Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 4 2014, 01:52 PM

Wow THANK YOU Kent!!! That's awesome. Hope I can return the favor sometime. I do have a small stash of stuff so lemme know if you've been looking for anything specific. Really glad the parts list helped. Your setup looks fantastic!

And YES PLEASE on the dimensions, whenever you get a chance. Great idea to do the brace BTW. Looks really clean.

Posted by: ruby914 Jan 4 2014, 10:49 PM

Nice.


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jan 4 2014, 11:04 PM

I'm having a problem with my Wilwood reservoir. It is leaking where the 2 halves clamp together. I haven't pulled it yet to see if it's cracked. sad.gif

I followed the instructions and warmed it up before fitting. I'm going to look for a one piece unit... dry.gif

Posted by: CptTripps Jan 4 2014, 11:56 PM

That's awesome. One question though...

What are the differences between a clevis fitting and a healm joint?

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 5 2014, 11:10 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Jan 4 2014, 11:52 AM) *

Wow THANK YOU Kent!!! That's awesome. Hope I can return the favor sometime. I do have a small stash of stuff so lemme know if you've been looking for anything specific. Really glad the parts list helped. Your setup looks fantastic!

And YES PLEASE on the dimensions, whenever you get a chance. Great idea to do the brace BTW. Looks really clean.

Thank you! Dimensions will be posted later this week once my head clears out. Caught a GD cold on the flight back headbang.gif

QUOTE(ruby914 @ Jan 4 2014, 08:49 PM) *

Nice.

Thanks Mike. I try to follow the CSOB route and if that doesn't work I go the KISS route. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Jan 4 2014, 09:56 PM) *

That's awesome. One question though...

What are the differences between a clevis fitting and a healm joint?

About 3/8 of an inch, Doug. The Heim joint will bolt to either side but I located the clutch MC for a clevis which is centered on the arm and not to one side or the other. The clevis would work had I located the MC for it originally. I forgot to mention that the 12mm bolt head (you see in the last 2 pics) which is centered in the hole to the right side of the screen has purpose. It's necessary to remove the clutch MC from the pedal assembly, if you want to leave the pedal cluster and brake MC in place when servicing. The lower bolt is accessible from beneath the car.

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Jan 6 2014, 07:04 AM

Nice job Kent. smilie_pokal.gif smilie_pokal.gif

I was doing the same thing last week for a friends 914. I used a Honda civic master cylinder. These can be gotten at any auto parts store new for less than $25.
Attached Image
On my Subaru conversion I used a wilwood master like yours but I used the 2 mounts on the side of the cylinder and made a mount for them and welded that to the front suspension cross member.

Posted by: nsyr Jan 7 2014, 06:31 PM

I used the honda master cylinder too. Can't beat the price.

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 11 2014, 04:59 PM

Here are the dimensions for those interested. All dimensions are "mm" except for the 2, 1 1/2" dia. holes. Plate is 3/16" mild steel.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

***NOTE*** The dotted bend line should read 3 Degrees NOT 30 Degrees

Attached Image

Hey Chris, this one's got your name on it. PM your address.

Attached Image

This one's mine. You can paint yours any color you want.

Attached Image





Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: CptTripps Jan 11 2014, 07:14 PM

I'd pay for one.

...just sayin'

Great thread. Thanks!

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 11 2014, 08:53 PM

Top notch man...thanks again. Might just clear coat it to remember the kind gesture. beerchug.gif Nice measurements too. Sounds like you could make a few more if you feel like it (but you might not).

Hey you're almost out of hard stuff to do! Almost time to fill that thing with water.

Posted by: CptTripps Jan 12 2014, 07:51 AM

Just thinking out loud: I wonder if it'd make sense to use a different Master Cylinder with vertical bolts for the brakes. Since the horizontal bolts is a lot of the reason for the flex down there. If we're building replacement plates and welding them in anyways...

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 12 2014, 09:53 AM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Jan 12 2014, 05:51 AM) *

Just thinking out loud: I wonder if it'd make sense to use a different Master Cylinder with vertical bolts for the brakes. Since the horizontal bolts is a lot of the reason for the flex down there. If we're building replacement plates and welding them in anyways...

Hey thanks Chris. Pay back for the time you saved me. piratenanner.gif
Doug, check post #202. Mike has a pic in his reply that shows the brace. It could be located on the left or right side of clutch MC but I chose the left side which puts it in between the brake & clutch MC's, This should be more than enough reinforcement. I wouldn't think of welding the plate to the floor unless I had TIG. Too much difference in mass.
I don't mind helping a friend out but making and selling these things is a horse of a different color. I might consider handing over (though it is now public domain lol-2.gif )the thing to Erc (PMB) or someone else that is insured out the Kazoo against such liabilities. It's like the difference between sharing a joint with a friend and selling pounds to strangers. lol-2.gif av-943.gif laugh.gif
If 10/more people wanted one of these I would do a step by step video. All you need is a 1.5" hole saw and some misc. bits, a vise and drill. A smart phone "Level App" is handy for setting the 3 degrees incidence but that can actually be done by hand once mounted.
If the MC was 1/2" shorter it could be made w/o the twist. Material costs < $10. beerchug.gif

Posted by: CptTripps Jan 15 2014, 12:00 PM

10-4. I completely understand.

I may attempt myself then. If you're OK with it being posted here (even though you already did) I'll make up a PDF that is 1:1 that someone could print and use as a template.

Posted by: CptTripps Jan 15 2014, 12:31 PM

There are a few dimensions I'm missing, but I think I have it overall. Would you be kind enough to print this out and see if it matches the real piece you have?

I don't have dimensions for:

- Small Hole Diameters
- Distancees for A, B, C, D and E

This should be 210mm from side to side when you print it out.


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 15 2014, 04:28 PM

I've had a change of heart. My previous comments did not take Cap'n Crusty's niece into consideration. I have 2 blanks left and will sell them drilled out w/ bolts, nuts and standoff brace for $55, shipping included. The clevis is appx $10 with shipping on ebay. For an additional $45 + shipping, I will #1,set it up on your pedal assm, #2,remove the spring and replace it with a spacer. So all you do is drill 2 holes in the floorboard. Payments shall be made to the Cap'n paypal acct and he can tell me when he is paid.

I'll be happy to get you those dimensions when I come up for air. May be a few days. I still need to complete a most generous project of Tim's (our resident gage lighting specialist) that is going to one of our members widow. Can't wait to take some pic's and show off another of Tim's talents here.

Posted by: CptTripps Jan 15 2014, 07:52 PM

I'm in! PM Sent...

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 15 2014, 07:58 PM

Well that's really nice of you. I know mine's not part of this deal but I'm in for $100 to help the lovely Sarah. Planned to donate anyway but now I have to get off my butt and do it TODAY. beerchug.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 16 2014, 10:01 AM

One left.

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 16 2014, 02:03 PM

Shifting gears and moving onto the exhaust barf.gif I wonder if I should address the drive shafts before I paint myself into a corner. Opinions from those that have gone before me? idea.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 16 2014, 02:34 PM

Remember I haven't DRIVEN mine but the way it is set up is:

Inner CV = FEMALE Subie (2002-2004) which is fine for you because your trans already has stub axles so it's set up for female CVs
Axle = Ians or re-splined 914 axle on one side to accept said Subie CV
Outer = the stock 914 CV....or you could upgrade to 944 if you pop a stock CV or two.

The other option is the "magic flange", which is fine too. Not sure about availability. The Subie CV is very strong so that's why I went with it.

I did a poor job of documenting this part of the build but here is a terrible pic of one of mine:

Attached Image

The Subie female CV is on the left, then the custom axle, then the 914 CV. I read on NASIOC NEVER to use the aftermarket Subie CV's. Always buy a used stock OEM CV even though they are about the same price as a new or rebuilt non OEM one. I got my axle pair for $50 and they were totally fine.

Also when you do the Subie CV you don't need to lock the axle in with the lock washer...you let it float. Weird but apparently it's fine.

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 16 2014, 02:51 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Jan 16 2014, 12:34 PM) *

Remember I haven't DRIVEN mine but the way it is set up is:

Inner CV = FEMALE Subie (2002-2004) which is fine for you because your trans already has stub axles so it's set up for female CVs
Axle = Ians or re-splined 914 axle on one side to accept said Subie CV
Outer = the stock 914 CV....or you could upgrade to 944 if you pop a stock CV or two.

The other option is the "magic flange", which is fine too. Not sure about availability. The Subie CV is very strong so that's why I went with it.

I did a poor job of documenting this part of the build but here is a terrible pic of one of mine:

Attached Image

The Subie female CV is on the left, then the custom axle, then the 914 CV. I read on NASIOC NEVER to use the aftermarket Subie CV's. Always buy a used stock OEM CV even though they are about the same price as a new or rebuilt non OEM one. I got my axle pair for $50 and they were totally fine.

Also when you do the Subie CV you don't need to lock the axle in with the lock washer...you let it float. Weird but apparently it's fine.

Chris, I was under the impression the stock 914 shaft was too small to re-spline and that it req'd using a bus or 944 axle. Just want to clarify this before I get some 914 shafts. I have the stock Suby 1/2 shafts/CV's and had planned on re-using the Suby CV's. TIA

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 16 2014, 03:04 PM

You may be right on that Kent...sorry I had not picked up on it before. I bought Ian's setup. Bob would know for sure and I do recall something about him mentioning bus axles...didn't know the reason but that may be what it was.

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Jan 16 2014, 05:14 PM

Stock 914 axles are fine. I've had 3 sets done and just found some one else to do them local.

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 16 2014, 06:15 PM

Geez. How easy is that? Quite honestly my head was swimming with all I've read. Thanks guys pray.gif

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Jan 16 2014, 06:26 PM

Stock 914 axles are fine. I've had 3 sets done and just found some one else to do them local.

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 17 2014, 07:38 AM

One quick tip for ya...

If you already have female Subie CV's you just have to take them off the Subie axles. The way you do that is undo the larger end of the CV boot and peel it back a bit. The joint will be very loose then and you will be tempted to slide the axle off the female inner CV end. BUT WAIT....there is a retaining ring that you have to remove first that is in the end of the CV bell. Here's a pic:

Attached Image

Just feel around at the lip of the open end, you'll find it. It's in there loosely, you can take it out without any tools. If you just slide the bell up without taking that out it will catch at the end. A guy I know very well just yanked at it and bent the hell out of the retaining ring before he figured out it was there. Once the two pieces are separated you will see a smaller retaining clip that holds that triple-headed bearing to the axle, just pry that sucker off and you're good.

And prepare for a HUGE GREASY MESS!!! I'm sure you've done CV's before.

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 17 2014, 09:09 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Jan 17 2014, 05:38 AM) *

One quick tip for ya...

If you already have female Subie CV's you just have to take them off the Subie axles. The way you do that is undo the larger end of the CV boot and peel it back a bit. The joint will be very loose then and you will be tempted to slide the axle off the female inner CV end. BUT WAIT....there is a retaining ring that you have to remove first that is in the end of the CV bell. Here's a pic:

Attached Image

Just feel around at the lip of the open end, you'll find it. It's in there loosely, you can take it out without any tools. If you just slide the bell up without taking that out it will catch at the end. A guy I know very well just yanked at it and bent the hell out of the retaining ring before he figured out it was there. Once the two pieces are separated you will see a smaller retaining clip that holds that triple-headed bearing to the axle, just pry that sucker off and you're good.

And prepare for a HUGE GREASY MESS!!! I'm sure you've done CV's before.

WOW! Perfect and great timing. Thx Chris. That saved me headaches and time. To quote Jeff Daniel's from the movie Dumb and Dumber, "You have totally redeemed yourself". Not that you needed redeeming. lol-2.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 20 2014, 01:23 PM

Back to the pedal assm. I found some adjustment of the clutch travel is necessary. The clutch master cylinder has a max of 1 1/8" travel and I was going past that. The fix is simple. This only takes a few min's. Chris and Doug, yours should be the same.
Loosen the jam nut then screw the pedal arm into it's receiver as far as it will go. Now check your travel. It should be 1" now. If not, adjust accordingly. Then tighten the jam nut, tightly. Now add a nut to the bottom (as shown in pic) with locktite. You could spot weld it but you may want to remove it one day.This will add some area to the end which will be stop. The floor board has an indentation that will accept this "foot" perfectly. It's hard to see in the pic's but it's there.

Attached Image

Disregard this conglomeration on the end of the pedal shaft. I discovered later that it was not needed, only one 14mm x 1.5 nut.

Attached Image

Up postion

Attached Image

Down and seated

Attached Image

This pic shows the clevis connection (you should have about 8mm of threads protruding from the clevis. Note the washer inside the clevis. This was done to fill the void and to throw the rod a bit to the side for clearance. I trimmed the throttle piece (and IIRC so did pcar) which gives me a clean 8mm separation between clutch and throttle linkages. Notice the 19mm spacer in place of the return spring.

Attached Image

And some trimming of the throttle linkage

Attached Image

Posted by: skeates Jan 20 2014, 04:57 PM

It looks like you matched the master cylinder size to the stock Subaru clutch? With the Wilwood are you getting enough travel to fully disengage the clutch at the tranny? I think that the stock slave cylinder has a .75" diameter so the ratio comes out to be something like .833 and (if I've done the math correctly) that would result in a maximum of 1.1" of travel to the clutch fork. I don't know what the lever ratio is for the clutch fork so I don't know what that amounts to in terms of travel for the throw-out bearing. I'm just curious if you knew how much travel is required to full disengage the clutch? 1" seems like it should be plenty....?

p.s. I'm about to purchase a clutch master for my project and don't have a clutch to play with to get the measurements so I was hoping you might have them shades.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 20 2014, 07:41 PM

QUOTE(skeates @ Jan 20 2014, 02:57 PM) *

It looks like you matched the master cylinder size to the stock Subaru clutch? With the Wilwood are you getting enough travel to fully disengage the clutch at the tranny? I think that the stock slave cylinder has a .75" diameter so the ratio comes out to be something like .833 and (if I've done the math correctly) that would result in a maximum of 1.1" of travel to the clutch fork. I don't know what the lever ratio is for the clutch fork so I don't know what that amounts to in terms of travel for the throw-out bearing. I'm just curious if you knew how much travel is required to full disengage the clutch? 1" seems like it should be plenty....?

p.s. I'm about to purchase a clutch master for my project and don't have a clutch to play with to get the measurements so I was hoping you might have them shades.gif

The Wilwood master is 3/4" also. Everything is theory, now. ChrisH should have his connected in another week or so and maybe he can video the actual combination at work. What measurements do you need. I'm a notorious procrastinator and might take several days.

Posted by: skeates Jan 20 2014, 09:37 PM

I guess I'm looking for the distance that the slave cylinder needs to travel in order to disengage the clutch. On mine I don't have a clutch or pressure plate yet so I can't make any measurements except to note that the clutch fork has easily 2" of travel (about 1 inch in either direction).

Sounds like you will have a one to one rato on your system which will give you almost 1.5". I imagine that will be plenty. I'm just paranoid about getting the wrong size without doing the math.

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 6 2014, 11:39 PM

The 7/8" hose arrived today and the 3/4" will be here Friday. I had resigned myself to running the hose beneath the car but the more I thought about it the more I convinced myself I can do this as originally planned; thru the longs. I used this old 2" wet vac hose for a couple of things. First was to thread the pull line thru the long so I ran the rope thru the hose and this plug with a knot in the end.

Attached Image

Attached Image


Started in the cabin and by gently pushing and twisting the vac hose it passes easily thru the long.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Then I tied one end of the rope in the cabin and pulled the vac hose out thru the engine compartment leaving only the line inside the long. After I drilled a small hole in the end of the hose I threaded the pull line thru the hose.

Attached Image

Using the curve in the hose I threaded it in engine side while pulling on the line until this.

Attached Image


Then I threaded a 12" piece of the 2" vac hose back over the heater hose and thru the "90" to prevent the hose from kinking. The fit is so close that it enables me to make tighter turns.

Attached Image

This is the larger and hotter of the 2 hoses so I'm running it in the pass long but I'm hoping that the way it's run will aid in not heating the long too much. I cut a piece of this 3" wet vac hose using the male end which fits very tightly inside the 90. I passed the other end thru the old hole into the area below the WWW reservoir. Inside this I added a piece of 2" so it is double walled. The greater pressure in the front compartment will pass somewhat thru the long and hopefully exhaust some heat. Here the 3" is slid over the heater hose and into the 90.

Attached Image

A shot of the tight fit I mentioned

Attached Image

A look from the other side.

Attached Image

And the piece of 2" before it is placed inside the 3" to make it double walled.

Attached Image

And with it threaded in. There will be another tight turn here and I want it for support as well.

Attached Image

Now with the original grommet back in place. A good seal will be necessary if I want to exhaust some of that heat.

Attached Image

And with the reservoir back in place

Attached Image

Real estate in this area is getting scarce. dry.gif

Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. Feb 7 2014, 07:21 AM

beerchug.gif Alriiiiight!!! Now it's getting serious!

In continuation of the "bromance" you started I'm sending you some water wetter. Supposed to reduce temps a bit. I know Bob and others have confirmed it's pretty easy to cool a Subie but when you go through the longs you might get a little bump up.




Posted by: CptTripps Feb 7 2014, 07:56 AM

I was thinking of going through the longs as well. The idea I was going to try involved fire retardant "Great Stuff" foam injected into the longs after the hose was installed. I'm back/forth on it still.

There's also the idea of wrapping the tube with the stuff you use for headers and tailpipes. I bought a bunch of that to use at one time. Maybe it'll get put to good use here?

Is there anyone that can tell me how hot the longs get without adding anything to help with the heat?

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 7 2014, 09:57 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Feb 7 2014, 05:21 AM) *

beerchug.gif Alriiiiight!!! Now it's getting serious!

In continuation of the "bromance" you started I'm sending you some water wetter. Supposed to reduce temps a bit. I know Bob and others have confirmed it's pretty easy to cool a Subie but when you go through the longs you might get a little bump up.

Thx Chris. That's super nice of you. I'm finished with the hydraulic clutch set up sans another AN3 90. Once that's in I'll finish up that portion of the post. Thanks for your help with the MC selection.

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Feb 7 2014, 05:56 AM) *

I was thinking of going through the longs as well. The idea I was going to try involved fire retardant "Great Stuff" foam injected into the longs after the hose was installed. I'm back/forth on it still.

There's also the idea of wrapping the tube with the stuff you use for headers and tailpipes. I bought a bunch of that to use at one time. Maybe it'll get put to good use here?


Hey Doug, you might trap moisture using foam fillers and I don't think wrapping it will help with sliding it thru the long. I really don't expect any heat issues but I'm putting it on my wife's side. She's always complaining about the cold. happy11.gif

Posted by: Chris H. Feb 7 2014, 10:23 AM

Yeah Doug the foam might be a bad idea...hate to see you get water trapped in that pretty car. If you fish the hoses through the heater tubes I'd think the heat transfer would be minimal but could be wrong...it's not touching the long directly for the most part right confused24.gif

BTW I'll search the stash this weekend for door handles, thanx for the LED mirror turn signals! Bromance #2.... w00t.gif

Posted by: CptTripps Feb 7 2014, 11:15 AM

I was more thinking about foaming the inside of the heater tube, once the radiator tube is installed. No real chance of water doing damage to a rubber tube, inside of another tube. I wouldn't want to fill up the long, unless I was 100% certain that I wasn't going to have any way for water to get in there. Most modern car frames are filled with foam without issue. (Although they weren't build with shitty seam welds in the 1970s.)

I'm at least a month away from needing to care about this, so I'll 'wait and see' what I can come up with between now and then.

Posted by: JRust Feb 7 2014, 01:06 PM

I had mine run through the longs originally on my v8. It is damn near impossible to get all the air out of the system. The whole burping process is kind of a bitch. Much worse when you add an extra peak to the setup. If you are going to do it that way. I would do something to add a valve at the top by your gas tank on both sides. Not sure that will even get it all but it will sure help. You are also making your water pump work that much harder. Everyone hates them running under the car for some reason. I won't do it another way now. Although I have considered cutting the top off the center tunnel. Adding a good inch of height to the side. Then insulating & running them through the car. Also making the top of the tunnel a removable deal idea.gif

As nice as you think it will be using the heater run in the longs. I can guarantee it will work better under your car. On my v8 I couldn't get it to cool consitently until I moved them under the car. Easy straight shot for running your hose & easier for your water pump to move all that water. Your already asking your water pump to push more water than it is designed for blink.gif . With a Suby it may work just fine though. It isn't as much work to cool them as an old school v8. Can't wait to see how it comes out biggrin.gif

Posted by: skeates Feb 7 2014, 07:37 PM

I don't think the problem is that we are pumping "more" water than the pumps are designed for. The volume in the system does increase, but the gpm stays the same. Since it's an enclosed system there is no static head to speak of, so the pump won't notice the additional volume...sort of... We are in effect increasing the pumping head by adding more tubing length. Looking at some generic hose pressure drop chart you could be adding as much as 50 psi more head on the pump (assuming 10 feet of additional length, 3/4" hose, and 60 gpm)! More head = less flow at a given RPM = less ability to cool the motor. Interestingly, if you are running 1" hose for the same length and gpm the pressure drop is only 12 psi. Moral of the story here is to size your hose a bit bigger than stock (in my opinion).

I agree with Jamie that the way those hoses are currently routed will make bleeding the system a pain. I'm also wondering if that Gates hose can make that tight 90 degree bend at the front of the long without collapsing (pinching). I'm running the McMaster Carr variant hose and I know it would be pinching really bad with that tight of a radius. A pinch in the hose would mean certain cooling problems (massive flow reduction and likely flashing of the coolant inside the hose). I would double check that before committing - maybe the Gates hose can take tighter bends?

Posted by: skeates Feb 7 2014, 07:45 PM

QUOTE(skeates @ Jan 20 2014, 07:37 PM) *

I guess I'm looking for the distance that the slave cylinder needs to travel in order to disengage the clutch. On mine I don't have a clutch or pressure plate yet so I can't make any measurements except to note that the clutch fork has easily 2" of travel (about 1 inch in either direction).

Sounds like you will have a one to one rato on your system which will give you almost 1.5". I imagine that will be plenty. I'm just paranoid about getting the wrong size without doing the math.



I don't know if it is useful at all, but I ended up answering my own question using my dad's Subaru outback. I had him push in the clutch while I measured the travel at the clutch fork and it only needed .5". Sheesh, that' nothing! So, it seems that any of the Wilwood clutch masters would work on the length of travel. It's really just a matter of picking how much mechanical advantage you want (smaller master = more mechanical advantage).

Posted by: mgp4591 Feb 7 2014, 09:14 PM

QUOTE(skeates @ Feb 7 2014, 06:37 PM) *

I don't think the problem is that we are pumping "more" water than the pumps are designed for. The volume in the system does increase, but the gpm stays the same. Since it's an enclosed system there is no static head to speak of, so the pump won't notice the additional volume...sort of... We are in effect increasing the pumping head by adding more tubing length. Looking at some generic hose pressure drop chart you could be adding as much as 50 psi more head on the pump (assuming 10 feet of additional length, 3/4" hose, and 60 gpm)! More head = less flow at a given RPM = less ability to cool the motor. Interestingly, if you are running 1" hose for the same length and gpm the pressure drop is only 12 psi. Moral of the story here is to size your hose a bit bigger than stock (in my opinion).

I agree with Jamie that the way those hoses are currently routed will make bleeding the system a pain. I'm also wondering if that Gates hose can make that tight 90 degree bend at the front of the long without collapsing (pinching). I'm running the McMaster Carr variant hose and I know it would be pinching really bad with that tight of a radius. A pinch in the hose would mean certain cooling problems (massive flow reduction and likely flashing of the coolant inside the hose). I would double check that before committing - maybe the Gates hose can take tighter bends?

I was thinking the same about the increased pumping pressure and wondered if an auxiliary pump could be beneficial at around the halfway point, say the radiator outlet, effectively working to draw the fluid through the radiator and push it back to the engine helping the stock water pump do it's job. An additional bleed port would help at the radiator inlet also being the high point with a bleed tube fished thru the bodywork beneath. Jus' thinkin'... idea.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 9 2014, 11:15 AM

A lot of good input and thus far things I have already considered. No substitute for experience, though! Jamie, I'm hoping that all goes well with the long install but I won't know until it's running. The only issue I expect might come into play is distance and the number of turns added. OIOW, increased drag. Head pressure will not be an issue with the closed system. I've anticipated the air trap's and will install vents @ the high points on both sides of the cabin if necessary.
Skeates, I should not have to worry about the line kinking. That is the purpose of using the 2" vac hose. It keeps the hose round when making tight turns.
Most of what I've read said I'm headed in the wrong direction but I'm going to try it anyway (I'm 1/2 English and 1/2 Dutch = pedigree hard head) . If I'm wrong it's easy enough to route it beneath the car. But if it works then it is a much cleaner install and aesthetically pleasing to the eyes.
So, to continue down this path I have completed the "run" from engine to radiator on the left side. This left side will be run a bit different than the right side because of the radiator in/outs locations. The left side will have 1 high spot which is in the front next to the gas tank. The right side which is the top hose (to both rad and engine) will have 2 high spots. One in the engine bay and one in the front compartment. Here are a few pic's of the left side's route.

As you can see in these next 3 pic's, the hose lines up perfectly with the inlet after exiting the long. No up or down travel, yet.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

And just like the right side it is double sleeved and goes thru the old duct hole.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Once inside the front compartment it turns and goes out the fender. Another tight turn but the vac hose keeps it from crimping. (FYI; a 90 degree elbow is = 12' lineal piping. blink.gif ) Notice the metal sleeve. I put that there so the fender wouldn't eat a hole in the hose and it gives it some support. From inside......

Attached Image

And from the wheel well

Attached Image

Then it hugs the wheel well behind the shock (where there is no chance of contact with the tire or rim)

Attached Image

It hugs the wall until it passes thru the fender. There will be another sleeve placed here as it was above.

Attached Image

from the inside

Attached Image

Even though the car is "jacked up" it is difficult to see once installed. It will still need to clamped and secured into place. I suspect only a midget or someone in a go kart would see it.

Attached Image

Onward thru the Fog! "Oat Willie"

Posted by: ruby914 Feb 9 2014, 12:19 PM

Kent,
I used 1.25" ID hose, in and out. I recall referencing the Subaru engineered output ID and reluctantly reduced it down. I am not saying 3/4" will not work but it seems small.
I have thought about rerouting my lines behind the rocker panel. I have room over the jack point. It would need putting a bulge in the rocker panel to get around the boxed in area at the lower door jam. Then, I think, I would have to go under the car from there.
With 3/4" hose, I think this route would be much easier for you. You may be able to do it with out a rocker mod and up the top of the inner fender well.

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 9 2014, 01:45 PM

QUOTE(ruby914 @ Feb 9 2014, 10:19 AM) *

Kent,
I used 1.25" ID hose, in and out. I recall referencing the Subaru engineered output ID and reluctantly reduced it down. I am not saying 3/4" will not work but it seems small.
I have thought about rerouting my lines behind the rocker panel. I have room over the jack point. It would need putting a bulge in the rocker panel to get around the boxed in area at the lower door jam. Then, I think, I would have to go under the car from there.
With 3/4" hose, I think this route would be much easier for you. You may be able to do it with out a rocker mod and up the top of the inner fender well.

Hey Mike, I was just looking at some old pic's of you in the "what da ya look like" forum. I'll have to post some of my "Redneck Hippie" pic's. av-943.gif Anywho, I'm emulating BigKat's cooling system, somewhat. I do know that he is running 7/8 & 3/4 with good results. It will be interesting to see my results. If it runs too hot the way I've routed the lines vs a str8 shot beneath the car I would think those sizes were marginal. I'm sure many gremlins await me but at least I won't have to find a place to land when they do; just pull over. smile.gif I will go over the fender well on the right side but that is to reduce snaking it up 'n down . It comes off the top of the engine, goes down then thru the long, then up as shown in previous pic. I need to get my hood back on to check clearance as far as going over the wheel well. That one is 7/8 ID so we'll see. dry.gif May have some sawzall-smiley.gif & welder.gif to do.

Posted by: jimkelly Feb 9 2014, 05:42 PM

sheath that rubber hose where ever you can. it can wear surprisingly fast when rubbing against metal/etc.

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 9 2014, 10:33 PM

Will do, Jimbo. I didn't have much time today and managed to waste most of what I had. I did however reach a "firing solution" as to the right side's route. It would have been easier to run it in the wheel well but this should make burping it easier. I laid this piece across what I thought was the lowest area and closed the hood. Much to my surprise the hood closed.

Attached ImageAttached Image

I wondered if the hose had just flattened down and allowed the hood to close so I laid this putty about and took a few measurements here and there. And sure enough... see the flat spots in the putty and the corresponding witness mark on the hood.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

This seemed to be the best location to cut because it was between the tank and shock tower.

Attached Image

a patch piece

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

primed and ready to be welded in

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Feb 10 2014, 08:26 PM

Kent I'll need the end of the subaru axle and the star race for the Subaru CV joint.
If your using the 914 stock axles there is no need to send them. I have plenty here.
I was surprized at how easy it was to cut my subaru axle. About 30 seconds with a 4" cut off wheel.
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 10 2014, 11:05 PM

QUOTE(BIGKAT_83 @ Feb 10 2014, 06:26 PM) *

Kent I'll need the end of the subaru axle and the star race for the Subaru CV joint.
If your using the 914 stock axles there is no need to send them. I have plenty here.
I was surprized at how easy it was to cut my subaru axle. About 30 seconds with a 4" cut off wheel.
Attached Image

Thx Bob, PM sent. I cut mine on a 12" chop saw and your right, it goes quick.

Posted by: CptTripps Feb 11 2014, 05:13 AM

Rather than all the 'up/down/up/down' would it be better to go through and under the fuel tank, then across to the longs? I'm planning this out right now too. Was thinking of welding up a tube to the frame so in not worried about a soft/hot hose in the cabin.

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 11 2014, 09:34 AM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Feb 11 2014, 03:13 AM) *

Rather than all the 'up/down/up/down' would it be better to go through and under the fuel tank, then across to the longs? I'm planning this out right now too. Was thinking of welding up a tube to the frame so in not worried about a soft/hot hose in the cabin.

If this doesn't work then I will go beneath the tank and run exposed below. Not sure what you mean by thru the tank but pretty sure you didn't mean you would weld a tube thru it. lol-2.gif I was going to weld some tube as conduit thru the wheel well but I stopped myself. happy11.gif Don't worry about the hot hose. poke.gif In fact, in your climate I'm surprised that you aren't taking advantage of this heat source and installing radiant heating in your teener. lol-2.gif I did put some time and effort into running them down the tunnel, which by the way is doable if you've converted to cable shift & hydraulic clutch. It would have involved opening some areas to remove some weld tabs and enlarging an opening in the bulkhead.
Here are some quick shots of the patch piece welded in. I need to weld up the back part next time I pull the gas tank and clean up the lower front weld. That should be very soon as I expect the front sway bar to be here within days. (Thx Garold)

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

This will get me flamed and yes I have a galvanic chart but I have them on hand and the copper fittings can be changed out for aluminium or brass ones later. I soldered "copper rings" onto it to prevent slipping. This fitting will serve as one of the air vent fittings.

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 16 2014, 05:43 PM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Feb 11 2014, 03:13 AM) *

Rather than all the 'up/down/up/down' would it be better to go through and under the fuel tank, then across to the longs? I'm planning this out right now too. Was thinking of welding up a tube to the frame so in not worried about a soft/hot hose in the cabin.

After re-reading your post Doug I don't think you should worry. Those "soft hot hoes in the cabin" pose no threat unless your wife were to intervene. shades.gif

Back to work............. take a look at this fender. 41 yr old paint.

Attached Image

!0 min's on each fender with a foam polishing disc (left over HF Lens Polishing Kit) some 3M compound

Attached Image

Attached Image

I dug out the sand blaster and hit the front sway bar pieces (thx Garold S) and hit these 2 pieces while I was at it. Primed and painted. Ready for install.

Attached Image

And as long as I was getting paint on myself I applied the Bed Liner to the front radiator area. I wanted something more than paint in this area and it was free.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

It was necessary to trim the pan a tad. I may or may not make a clam shell cover. The 4 body bolts keep it very steady but.................

Attached Image

Posted by: JRust Feb 16 2014, 08:48 PM

Wow your radiator is so stealth I don't even see it evilgrin.gif You'll have to tell me your secret blink.gif
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
..
.
.
.
.
.
lol-2.gif lol-2.gif lol-2.gif










Posted by: 76-914 Feb 16 2014, 11:07 PM

oops




Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 26 2014, 07:27 PM

This is how the 7/8" return line ties into the 1.25". A 3/4" coupling is inserted into the 7/8"

Attached Image

Attached Image

Then the 7/8" hose is inserted in to the 1.25" and clamped in place.

Attached Image

Jumping back a bit I finally finished the clutch sans fluid. A quick check for fit..........

Attached Image

I remembered reading that SS sheathed hoses often fail because road grime gets inside and wears thru the Teflon liner. I should have used heat shrink but I used electrical tape. Either one should make a big difference in this area, for sure.

Attached Image

Found this on ebay for $9. It has an 1 1/8" throat which is exactly the same size as the o.d. of 1" copper tube.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

This is the manifold that will connect the 2ea. - 1.25" outlets from the suby engine. (It has one inlet and 2 outlets). I came out of the top of the tee with the fill riser (as seen below) but after thinking about it that tee will be replaced with a long radius 90 then the tee will be re-installed. I think it should greatly improve the flow over a sharp turn that would occur in the tee. I'll post it when I change it. So just know this will change a tad.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Now you can see what I'm after. This fill cap should be the highest point in the car and for sure, in the engine compartment. It is attached to 2 1.25" horizontal hoses which combined are about 18" in length. This will be anchored later or it would fall down. However, I will make some anchor that is easily removable in case that I need to pull up on it for venting/burping purposes.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

For the most part the work is all but finished in the front trunk area. There may be some additional cutting/venting once it's running. There are a few wires to connect with the Suby wires once I fall back into the wiring phase again. barf.gif I think it was Skeates who mentioned he was tired of playing Concentration with himself when describing the wiring. av-943.gif lol-2.gif laugh.gif Very well put. Overall I'm happy with the way this area has turned out. I forgot to mention that I have about a 3"x 2' x 16" area beneath the radiator that can store tools, etc. And there should be room for a collapsible spare to boot. (would that be a pun in England?)

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 26 2014, 07:44 PM

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Then I moved on to the floor pans. I had plenty more bed liner so I did this area in it also. Besides, it's some tough shit and this area can stand a little extra protection.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Ross, this is the controller that you need. It was a convenient time for me to snap this shot for you. Everyone else is saying, "What the Hell did he put that in there for?" lol-2.gif

Attached Image

Oops, forgot this shot of the cold inlet tie in at the engine.

Attached Image

Guess what's next on my list?

Attached Image

Posted by: rnellums Feb 26 2014, 10:15 PM

Kent,

Are there any markings on the box or is it just plain?

Also, I thought I had read that using copper in the coolant system with an aluminum black could cause sacrificial corrosion of the engine. Have you heard anything about that? It would be awful nice to be able to use a copper tee for my 1.25" hose. I have been having a devil of a time finding an aluminum one.

-Ross

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 26 2014, 10:52 PM

QUOTE(rnellums @ Feb 26 2014, 08:15 PM) *

Kent,

Are there any markings on the box or is it just plain?

Also, I thought I had read that using copper in the coolant system with an aluminum black could cause sacrificial corrosion of the engine. Have you heard anything about that? It would be awful nice to be able to use a copper tee for my 1.25" hose. I have been having a devil of a time finding an aluminum one.

-Ross

Jags that Run doesn't have one? Yea, I read some thing too but couldn't find it. IIRC, the more noble the more sacrificial. And then mass must play some role. This is just messing around as I plan to look at it a year later. This entire project is experimental to some degree and I expect some failure. Cheap failures I hope. I would expect that the copper would die first. If I have it backwards I should find aluminum deposits on the copper. I think I should ground one of the copper fittings to the body and compare it with the others a year later. idea.gif I remember looking at the chart and thinking that they were not that far apart except for voltage values. Maybe this is what I'm missing. Also, Bro Chris sent me a bottle of water wetter. It tastes like shit so I'm going to put it in my engine instead. It claims to reduce this effect. If you find that article shoot me the link.
I'll get the markings and pm you manana.

Posted by: CptTripps Feb 27 2014, 03:42 AM

Outstanding progress. One quick question though:

Which bed liner did you end up using? That's on my list, and I don't want to use what I used last time.

Posted by: skeates Feb 27 2014, 10:45 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Feb 26 2014, 05:27 PM) *

I think it was Skeates who mentioned he was tired of playing Concentration with himself when describing the wiring. av-943.gif lol-2.gif laugh.gif Very well put.


Twas not I who coined that one, but I'll take the credit. happy11.gif

Looks like you are making some good progress. I'm particularly interested in seeing how your cooling solution works out as it is much easier to run those smaller diameter hoses. I also went with the 1.25" hose to keep things close to the stock sizes, but it sounds like there may be a significant amount of wiggle room there. Keep up this momentum and you'll be driving before you know it!

Posted by: Chris H. Feb 27 2014, 11:24 AM

idea.gif I'm re-thinking what size pipe to run under the car too...was going with 1 1/4 as well but if that isn't necessary I'll go smaller. Much easier to bend the smaller it is (insert easy joke response here....).

Great progress Kent! BTW guys can you coat the inside of that copper with anything that would keep it from reacting/breaking down into the water? Or slow it down enough to make it less of an issue?


Posted by: AfricanHijinx Feb 27 2014, 12:03 PM

what bed liner did you use? I used some duplicolor stuff from the FLAPS and it was garbage it scratched pretty quick

Posted by: ruby914 Feb 27 2014, 12:35 PM

QUOTE(skeates @ Feb 27 2014, 08:45 AM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Feb 26 2014, 05:27 PM) *

I think it was Skeates who mentioned he was tired of playing Concentration with himself when describing the wiring. av-943.gif lol-2.gif laugh.gif Very well put.


Twas not I who coined that one, but I'll take the credit. happy11.gif

Looks like you are making some good progress. I'm particularly interested in seeing how your cooling solution works out as it is much easier to run those smaller diameter hoses. I also went with the 1.25" hose to keep things close to the stock sizes, but it sounds like there may be a significant amount of wiggle room there. Keep up this momentum and you'll be driving before you know it!


I think that was Scott Amenson on his MIA 2014 come back.


I still have $200 worth of copper that I pulled out of my car. Going to make a wind chime. aktion035.gif
I had mine all suspended by rubber. Thought I could get around it. I think it was Porsharu that sent me this PDF? May have saved my butt.
I didn't want all my work rotting from within.


Attached File(s)
Attached File  electrolysis.pdf ( 57.49k ) Number of downloads: 116

Posted by: rnellums Feb 27 2014, 05:11 PM

For my joints, I bout some aluminum extenders off amazon, but the tee required for the EZ30 is what is killing me (one cold return @1.5" but TWO outlets @ 1.25"!)

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 27 2014, 07:43 PM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Feb 27 2014, 01:42 AM) *

Outstanding progress. One quick question though:

Which bed liner did you end up using? That's on my list, and I don't want to use what I used last time.

Monstaliner. I think it came from JEGS. I traded my "flucks" core welder to my buddy for 2 gallons of this stuff. JEGS gave it to him because they shipped the wrong colour. Win Win. I think this stuff needs to go on thick if you want durability. I did this in the front trunk area for obvious reasons. The pans were just a couple of coats. It will be covered and didn't need to be tough.

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Feb 27 2014, 09:24 AM) *

idea.gif I'm re-thinking what size pipe to run under the car too...was going with 1 1/4 as well but if that isn't necessary I'll go smaller. Much easier to bend the smaller it is (insert easy joke response here....).


Chris and other concerned souls: this comes from the horse's, or in this case the KAT's, mouth. Bob (BIGKAT83) was kind enough to share his set up. He is running SS braided lines w/ AN fittings but other than the material choice, the sizes are the same. As I said somewhere back; I don't expect the hose size will be a problem. And if there is a cooling problem I will suspect my choice of routing and additional turns that I added. Bob also twinned the 1.25 into a 3/4 line. This setup has served his 3.3 and 3.0 engines. Just be sure both 1.25 hoses are identical in every respect. IOW, the T should be in the middle and if one side goes 8" turns 90 degrees then 5" the other side should be the same. Helps to balance the flow.
Great progress Kent! BTW guys can you coat the inside of that copper with anything that would keep it from reacting/breaking down into the water? Or slow it down enough to make it less of an issue?

QUOTE(AfricanHijinx @ Feb 27 2014, 10:03 AM) *

what bed liner did you use? I used some duplicolor stuff from the FLAPS and it was garbage it scratched pretty quick

Hijinx, see above. Capt tripps had the same ??? beerchug.gif

QUOTE(ruby914 @ Feb 27 2014, 10:35 AM) *

QUOTE(skeates @ Feb 27 2014, 08:45 AM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Feb 26 2014, 05:27 PM) *

I think it was Skeates who mentioned he was tired of playing Concentration with himself when describing the wiring. av-943.gif lol-2.gif laugh.gif Very well put.


Twas not I who coined that one, but I'll take the credit. happy11.gif

Looks like you are making some good progress. I'm particularly interested in seeing how your cooling solution works out as it is much easier to run those smaller diameter hoses. I also went with the 1.25" hose to keep things close to the stock sizes, but it sounds like there may be a significant amount of wiggle room there. Keep up this momentum and you'll be driving before you know it!


I think that was Scott Amenson on his MIA 2014 come back.


I still have $200 worth of copper that I pulled out of my car. Going to make a wind chime. aktion035.gif
I had mine all suspended by rubber. Thought I could get around it. I think it was Porsharu that sent me this PDF? May have saved my butt.
I didn't want all my work rotting from within.

That's not the article I was looking for. It's better. Thanks. I think with that info I can avoid loosing a radiator. Hell, it may all come out and go beneath the car like everyone else. idea.gif Radiator new was <$60 so it wouldn't hair lip me if it tanked. I love that the article tells how to test it with your VOM. Did you perform all those tests? Results?? It points out why grounds are so important. The OG Suby harness must have 20 random ground cables that attach to the body in different locations. Hmmmmmmmm.
Hey, hey> My fan switch arrived so I can plug that hole in the radiator. piratenanner.gif

Posted by: ruby914 Feb 27 2014, 08:45 PM

''Radiator new was <$60 so it wouldn't hair lip me if it tanked.''
Radiator? What about the motor?

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Feb 27 2014, 09:05 PM

QUOTE(rnellums @ Feb 27 2014, 06:11 PM) *

For my joints, I bout some aluminum extenders off amazon, but the tee required for the EZ30 is what is killing me (one cold return @1.5" but TWO outlets @ 1.25"!)


Here you go these guys will make you anything you need . http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Parts_TPI-TBI_Brass-Tees.html

Bob biggrin.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 27 2014, 10:21 PM

Thx Bob, you gave me these guys name. This is just a temp thing for me to tinker with.
Mike, if I read that article right it gave a voltage value for CI and Alum engines where they began to disintegrate. If I stay well below that or near 0 then what happens? You need a source of energy. I think if this went south the radiator would go 1st, 2nd and 3rd before an engine would. .030" walls vs 1/4"+. Interesting thing about electrolysis effecting head gaskets, huh?

Posted by: ruby914 Feb 28 2014, 02:45 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Feb 27 2014, 08:21 PM) *

Thx Bob, you gave me these guys name. This is just a temp thing for me to tinker with.
Mike, if I read that article right it gave a voltage value for CI and Alum engines where they began to disintegrate. If I stay well below that or near 0 then what happens? You need a source of energy. I think if this went south the radiator would go 1st, 2nd and 3rd before an engine would. .030" walls vs 1/4"+. Interesting thing about electrolysis effecting head gaskets, huh?


I felt the same way, after spending the $$$ for copper. I was told a current could come from almost anything that spins like a differential. I didn't / don't know. I thought of head gaskets and seals. Thought about opening the coolant cap and seeing silver froth floating. Then I thought of that warm feeling that goes up my body just before I think, "Oh jees, what have I done? I knew better! Why did I risk it? huh.gif headbang.gif" barf.gif headbang.gif
I don't like that feeling, so I took it off.

popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 28 2014, 10:17 AM

Well, the copper ftg's can be re-used when/if I chunk them. I think Porsche knew that about tranny current and put the tranny ground strap bolt just for Suby conversions. lol-2.gif It started off as a way of fitting everything together. But now.............I want to actually check the current. In fact, I think this should be done regardless of your radiator cooling system. Have you done yours, yet. I wish you were closer. We could check it out. You need two people or an octopus to do the check. BTW, add movement and heat to the energy source list. This stuff is fascinating to me and others with a sub IQ. lol-2.gif I'm easily amused.

Posted by: ruby914 Feb 28 2014, 11:56 AM

I keep digging through my PC looking for a different document that I'm not finding. I remember a different one that was very good. I never did a final check for current.
We have this problem at work on CNC machines with the coolant systems. Everything is SS and aluminum separated by epoxy paint, fiberglass shims, aircraft tank seal... nothing seems to work for very long. Once the aluminum starts, it goes fast.
The aluminum boat guys have the same problem in salt water. They must have a sacrificial zink plate, Galvanic anode. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_anode
It makes me wonder about that that OG Suby conversion with complete copper system? Eric Thresher was it? I would like to see a follow up on that car.

Posted by: Chris H. Feb 28 2014, 02:15 PM

Man I obviously don't understand the science behind the problem here...just won't use copper then.

Yeah that car was for sale a while back...he sure did use some copper:

http://www.etischer.com/914xt.html

Posted by: rnellums Feb 28 2014, 02:27 PM

QUOTE(BIGKAT_83 @ Feb 27 2014, 08:05 PM) *


Here you go these guys will make you anything you need . http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Parts_TPI-TBI_Brass-Tees.html

Bob biggrin.gif


This is EXACTLY what I was looking for. And they shipped fast. It's already on its way to my door!

-Ross

Posted by: rnellums Feb 28 2014, 02:27 PM

Double

Posted by: mgp4591 Feb 28 2014, 02:57 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Feb 28 2014, 01:15 PM) *

Man I obviously don't understand the science behind the problem here...just won't use copper then.

Yeah that car was for sale a while back...he sure did use some copper:

http://www.etischer.com/914xt.html

Dissimilar metals in a fluid medium results in a galvanic reaction that is the basis for lead/acid batteries. Somethings gotta give... popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: Chris H. Feb 28 2014, 03:54 PM

Ah...yeah that sounds bad....

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 28 2014, 06:09 PM

QUOTE(ruby914 @ Feb 28 2014, 09:56 AM) *

I keep digging through my PC looking for a different document that I'm not finding. I remember a different one that was very good. I never did a final check for current.
We have this problem at work on CNC machines with the coolant systems. Everything is SS and aluminum separated by epoxy paint, fiberglass shims, aircraft tank seal... nothing seems to work for very long. Once the aluminum starts, it goes fast.
The aluminum boat guys have the same problem in salt water. They must have a sacrificial zink plate, Galvanic anode. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_anode
It makes me wonder about that that OG Suby conversion with complete copper system? Eric Thresher was it? I would like to see a follow up on that car.


All ships have them by the brass props. All water heaters have one. In water heaters they are made from aluminum or magnesium depending upon your water type. I don't think our cars cooling system operates in an environment as severe as that in a commercial water heater and it's related appurtenances. In every area except voltage and I think I'll find that is the big influence. I have seen commercials systems with copper mixed directly with steel that took over 3 yr's to rot out. At 180 degrees/90psi no less, circulating 24 hrs a day. Lots of to learn on my part. dry.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 28 2014, 06:25 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Feb 28 2014, 12:15 PM) *

Man I obviously don't understand the science behind the problem here...just won't use copper then.

Yeah that car was for sale a while back...he sure did use some copper:

http://www.etischer.com/914xt.html

We'll find out. I just shot him an email. Thx for pulling that up, Chris. Now get out in that coooold garage and get back on it. happy11.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 2 2014, 05:30 PM

Well I guess we won't. Email bounced back to me. Onward thru the Fog. I picked up a used front sway bar. Sandblasted it, some new bushings, some paint and it gets another life. Looking down on the right side with the tank out you will see the raised flat area that needs to be trimmed. I found the appx center on the round flat aea where the mount is located then made a cut 45mm long (22.5mm either side of center) and 13mm away from the edge as shown. Clear as mud, huh?

Attached Image

Then a few holes on each end.

Attached Image

Then with a large punch I beat this piece down and flush with the wall.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Then back inside the wheel well I measured over from the brake line brace to locate center. Don't confuse this 45mm mark with the one inside. They overlap but are staggered.

Attached Image

Then down 13mm from the arch to locate the top of the "inside" brace. The plate that goes inside the wheel well is not the same shape. The bolt pattern is the same. And the infamous "too big" pic on Pelican was for the interior brace so thought I'd mention that. This is why I used that piece to mark the holes later.

Attached Image

Again, referring to Pelican's article I located and drilled the front upper bolt first.

Attached Image

Drilled a small hole from this side

Attached Image

Finished this small hole up to 8mm

Attached Image

Then back inside the well to install this piece and locate/drill the remaining holes.

Attached Image

With the 3 bolts installed and in place I can see the center mark and mark and center punch where the 1" hole goes.

Attached Image

With the center pilot hole drilled out the hole punch is put to use. A shot from both sides.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Here are some shots showing how the radiator hose just clears all this in the left wheel well. Btw, all this comes back out for some quick paint and I ordered the wrong size bushings so I'm awaiting those.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

It occurred to me that this may be the last time this tank is out av-943.gif lol-2.gif laugh.gif so I thought I would put some gas in it to see what leaks before hand.

Attached Image

EDIT: Forgot to ask this. When I weld the inner brace to the well do I spot or seam weld it? TIA, Kent

Posted by: CptTripps Mar 3 2014, 09:36 AM

Awesome progress Kent.

I was going to weld up the two bottom lined on my stock tank too, since I'll be using the Subaru feeder/pump. I may cut a bigger hole in the bottom first so I can make sure the feeder is all the way at the bottom.

Something to remember: Only put a LITTLE fuel in at first. After you get your gauges set up, you'll need to know how many gallons you have left when the "feed me" light goes on. I always start with 1-gal, and then add it in 1/2-gal increments until the wife/kid inside the car says "It's off!" That gives me an idea of how long I have.

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 3 2014, 10:14 AM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Mar 3 2014, 07:36 AM) *

Awesome progress Kent.

I was going to weld up the two bottom lined on my stock tank too, since I'll be using the Subaru feeder/pump. I may cut a bigger hole in the bottom first so I can make sure the feeder is all the way at the bottom.

Something to remember: Only put a LITTLE fuel in at first. After you get your gauges set up, you'll need to know how many gallons you have left when the "feed me" light goes on. I always start with 1-gal, and then add it in 1/2-gal increments until the wife/kid inside the car says "It's off!" That gives me an idea of how long I have.

Thx Doug or should I say, "Et tu, Brutus". I have this feeling yours will be on the road (and nicer) than mine. sad.gif BTW, beginning w/ post #131 and you will see that you can see the position of the Suby fuel pick up thru the "new" fuel sender location. That's a good tip on low fuel warning.

Posted by: rnellums Mar 3 2014, 10:28 AM

Kent, are you using the H6 pump or an impreza version? My EZ30 pump seems like the pickup is too short to be used in our tanks.

-Ross

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 3 2014, 11:09 AM

Ross, It's from an Impreza. Save the H-6 pump. I think the motors are interchangeable. I had to rotate the pick up tube 180 degrees but that is covered in the thread. IIRC. If not, LMK. I'll get it for you.

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 5 2014, 11:48 AM

Hope this helps, Ross. R-122 is the blk 10 pin in the lower left corner. It has a grey sheath as seen. Kent

Attached Image

Here is a close up of the controller and R-122 plug

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 18 2014, 07:38 PM

I've been busy as a one armed Cranberry merchant for the past few weeks so I haven't accomplished much with the car. But I did get to tinker in the garage yesterday. Once again, I have shamelessly appropriated one of Bigkat83's ideas. I moved the battery to the drivers side. And for 2 reasons. One, to replace it with OEM parts was too pricey for my beer budget and two, the Suby battery cable would reach this side, barely. piratenanner.gif Although I believe the fiberglass battery tray that I put in the '76 is better in every way, I promised myself I would stick with metal on this car. I found these pic's of my mold for it taken 5 yr's ago yesterday. What a coincidence! The drinking straw is where the drain went (to the ground).

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

This time I took some 18ga scrape and made the base and angle pieces. Not much to say other than I used the OEM relay board mount which in itself was not strong enough so bracing was welded in beneath it. Primer, paint and Plastidip to follow.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

And I put a front sway bar in the week before but you already saw that here http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=232123&hl= I did weld the inner plates but didn't get an after pic. BTW, that's Hell welding in there. It would be a snap if on a rotisserie.

Attached Image




Posted by: 76-914 Mar 23 2014, 07:56 PM

Wow, I was so busy the last 10 days I goofed off for some R&R this weekend. I decided this was easy enough so I did this little 1 hr project and now feel better about the some protection for the clutch MC. The shield had been trimmed to allow the MC to fit.

Attached Image

And with this 90 elbow and and line even more trimming was necessary

Attached Image

I had an old Mapp Cylinder I saved just for this. So a quick pass thru the chop saw.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Then a pass with the welder
Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Next time I pull this I'll trim off about 3" at the rear, place some Wurth's at the seams and paint it. Look at the right side of the pic and you will see a slit that was cut. That was ball peened to allow for the hose and will be closed up when pulled again.

Attached Image

Posted by: CptTripps Mar 23 2014, 08:49 PM

That's pretty awesome. I'm going to steal that idea from you.

...now to go find a dead torch bottle.

Posted by: ruby914 Mar 23 2014, 10:13 PM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Mar 23 2014, 06:49 PM) *

That's pretty awesome. I'm going to steal that idea from you.

...now to go find a dead torch bottle.


The dead one is the one that doesn't explode, when you cut it. smoke.gif

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Mar 23 2014, 11:19 PM

So... what was easier/harder? Building this or an airplane? biggrin.gif Nice work.

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 24 2014, 11:08 AM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Mar 23 2014, 07:49 PM) *

That's pretty awesome. I'm going to steal that idea from you.

...now to go find a dead torch bottle.

I just happen to have an extra. blink.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 24 2014, 11:09 AM

QUOTE(ruby914 @ Mar 23 2014, 09:13 PM) *

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Mar 23 2014, 06:49 PM) *

That's pretty awesome. I'm going to steal that idea from you.

...now to go find a dead torch bottle.


The dead one is the one that doesn't explode, when you cut it. smoke.gif

Good point. There is a "Schroeder "like" " valve on the end that you can depress to be sure it is empty.

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 24 2014, 11:21 AM

QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Mar 23 2014, 10:19 PM) *

So... what was easier/harder? Building this or an airplane? biggrin.gif Nice work.

I've been asking myself that same question these past few month's. dry.gif I'll have to think that one through a bit more. However, I can tell you this. There is no feeling like sitting at the end of the runway about to jam the throttle on a "unproven" plane that has never flown, powered by an "unproven" engine that has never taken one up and being flown by a pilot so nervous you couldn't have driven a 10 penny nail up my ass with a sledge hammer. poke.gif Done any spins in that V_Tail, yet? happy11.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 12 2014, 01:21 PM

Didn't get to work on mine today but I did put another boot in Cancer's ass. I finally got this 19mm style finished for Stephan (aka 914forme) who made a "very generous" donation to the "Fund" for the Cap'n Krusty's niece.
I removed about 3lb's of rust so I primed and sealed your brake base plate to seal it until you paint. The clutch plate was just primed as it is new steel. Hence, the different shades. I went with the 1/8" increase you measured so it should fit the 19mm master cylinder. I need to pick up the correct length bolt for the brace then I can ship it to you. PM me for shipping info. FWIW, I'm very close to powering up the electrical on the BlackBird. blink.gif I should probably warn the Fire Dep't. ahead of time. w00t.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image



Posted by: 914forme Apr 12 2014, 05:44 PM

piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif

Thank you Thank you Thank you. This was such a win win you have done a great thing here.

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 21 2014, 10:15 PM

OK Stephan, your baby is finished w/ new 8mm bolts. I threw in a cover you can weld to your pan. I threw a smaller spring inside the package. Throw away the one that is presently on there.

Attached Image

Now, back to work on my car. I didn't get to work on it the previous weekend or evenings these past few weeks but I did get some time in Saturday. Actually I did squeeze this 1 hr project in before Saturday. I wanted to keep this cover so I cut two slits, raised it up about 10mm then cut two small triangle pieces and welder.gif them in. Damn that's some thin metal. Is there a rust filter I'm missing. All my work looks rusty in pic's. WTF.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Continuing my trek thru Hell I started on the wiring that "I think" I will need in this area. The old relay board is long gone and all that remains is the 14 wire harness which you can see in the Chinese Pony Clamp. Of those 14 I am using 4 wires.

Attached Image

Attached Image

The Y will still go the starter solenoid, the B (switched +12v) will be my trigger for the relay controlling the new "switched ign" requirements, #12 R & #14 R are fused thru Tom's fuse block and will serve two requirements at the Suby ECU. Those 2 fuses will reduce to 15A.

I added this 4ga from the bat cable to the new "power dist area". BTW, most of this is temp and will be tidied up later.

Attached Image

There are 2 terminal blocks in the pic. One is switched power the other is + BAT.

Attached Image

Some scavenged relays. One for now and one for later.

Attached Image

I know of two things that will change in these pic's later. The fused terminal block isn't mounted and Tom's 4 fuse block will be changed to a 6 fused unit. The 8ga & 10ga wires I ran to the front as well as the switched and BAT terminals will be fused thru the unarrived fuse terminal block. This will make since once I install that fused dist block.


Posted by: euro911 Apr 21 2014, 11:51 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Mar 23 2014, 05:56 PM) *
... I had an old Mapp Cylinder I saved just for this. So a quick pass thru the chop saw.

Attached Image

Attached Image

...

I had to cut some holes and slots into a couple of propane cylinders for one of my idiotic projects. I was absolutely positive they had been previously evacuated laugh.gif

Attached Image


Nice work, Kent

thumb3d.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 22 2014, 07:45 PM

Thanks Mark. I finally received that part so it might make sense now. The #4 wire feeds fused dist box. That box feeds 2 new lines thru the tunnel and the BAT terminal. There are two relays side by side. The relay on the left gets it's power from the BAT terminal, as well as a few other items. It in turn powers the +12v switched terminal. The 4 fuse box is hanging loose for now and 2 fuses changed to 15a. Next I need to wire the Y to the new starter circuit. The relay on the right will control the starter solenoid and take the load off that 41 yr old switch. I added another ground terminal next to the relays. That is 2 plus the factory ground on the left side! Can't have enough grounds. The rest I covered in the last post. After that I'm pretty much finished in the engine compartment and will need to connect 7 wires to the gages. I'll be on my knees asking questions at that point for sure.


Attached Image

Posted by: 914forme Apr 22 2014, 08:09 PM

Oh, wow that is outstanding! Here I was out huffing my Mapp Cylinder tonight, just trying to get it down to use for this. laugh.gif4


Thanks again, great work, and it was my pleasure to help anyway I can.

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 24 2014, 11:06 AM

Don't know why I didn't post this earlier. I received these a few weeks back. The L side fits fine but the right side is appx 1-2mm too long. I need to drop the engine once more so I will see if I can get it to fit once the engine is dropped a few inches. I think that my cradle might be out of square or the car for that matter. I should have measured both sides instead of assuming they are equal lengths. headbang.gif No matter, I'll sell them if not and cut another pair. My tranny lines up almost straight across so any trans that is offset by an inch or 2 should be OK to use these if I can't use them.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: rnellums Apr 24 2014, 12:23 PM

So this is the side that fits right?

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Apr 24 2014, 01:05 PM

As the car sets in the picture(axle level) how much movement do you have on the axle? Pushing into the transaxle cv joint.

Bob

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 24 2014, 06:10 PM

QUOTE(rnellums @ Apr 24 2014, 11:23 AM) *

So this is the side that fits right?

bye1.gif Hey Ross, correctomundo. The 3/16" lip of the flange is all that prevents the other side from sliding in. I'll give this another look Saturday now that I got my head wrapped around this minor set back.

QUOTE(BIGKAT_83 @ Apr 24 2014, 12:05 PM) *

As the car sets in the picture(axle level) how much movement do you have on the axle? Pushing into the transaxle cv joint.

Bob

bye1.gif Hey Bob, how ya'll are? I took a quick measurement of 1.25", maybe a hair more. I didn't slide under the car for exact measurement but it is at least 1.25". Any trailing arm movement, up or down, should increase this distance because it is flat now. Is 1.25" enough, Bob?
Another thing I completely missed is the possibility that one or both trailing arms are out of spec. I read a few posts re: string alignment and thought I should check this out before I go too far.

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 28 2014, 10:17 PM

I finally connected the bat tonite. Started by adding one fuse at a time until power was restored to cabin. When I hit "start" I just got a loud click which can be many things. New clutch binding, crappy starter, bad ground(s) or other bad connection? The solenoid which I added in the start circuit (to aid the switch) might not be sized correctly and God only knows what else. Before I go further I'll jump the starter solenoid so I know which path to follow piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif
What the FUCH am I dancing for then. Because nothing popped; no majic smoke. I'm not saying there aren't problems ahead. I haven't energized the ECU nor connected the cursory gage wires so maybe I'm not out of the woods, yet. It's just a matter of plugging 2 fuses in zap it but I wanted to quit for the nite and enjoy the moment. beer3.gif

Posted by: CptTripps Apr 29 2014, 07:24 AM

Stay on it man.

You're close!!!

Posted by: Chris H. Apr 29 2014, 07:29 AM

Hey way to go Kent! No smoke is good! That happened to me and the problem was I didn't have it wired up to the starter relay quite right so it wasn't engaging the starter. You'll figure it out.

I got all my hoses, just waiting for reducers and a few other things and I should be ready to plumb mine up. Think I better install the clutch first though. Hey do you have the part # for "L" shaped fitting you used on the end of the clutch master cylinder?

Posted by: rnellums Apr 29 2014, 08:29 AM

Good going! Now once yours starts properly I'll need you to make a detailed schematic of your harness biggrin.gif . Kidding about that, but seriously, great progress!

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 29 2014, 08:32 AM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Apr 29 2014, 06:24 AM) *

Stay on it man.

You're close!!!

I see your in "Electrical Heaven" yourself. happy11.gif Misery loves company.

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Apr 29 2014, 06:29 AM) *

Hey way to go Kent! No smoke is good! That happened to me and the problem was I didn't have it wired up to the starter relay quite right so it wasn't engaging the starter. You'll figure it out.

I got all my hoses, just waiting for reducers and a few other things and I should be ready to plumb mine up. Think I better install the clutch first though. Hey do you have the part # for "L" shaped fitting you used on the end of the clutch master cylinder?

Chris, I looked thru my Ebay history and it wasn't there so I probably got it at JEG's. If you don't see it there pm me and I'll find it in my receipt's. I do have one of the fittings that goes from the slave directly to the AN3 flare nut on the SS line if either one of you want to bypass that banjo fitting. That first electrical test is like a first flight. Make or break it! w00t.gif

Posted by: 76-914 May 1 2014, 10:23 PM

I jumped the starter solenoid tonite and nothing. sad.gif I was going to drop the starter for bench testing and I thought maybe I should confirm a good ground. I ran a jumper cable from the -BAT to the bolt head on the starter and whadaya know. Spins the engine like crazy. slap.gif I ran another ground and will add a few more to the engine block. smash.gif Then turned the ign key over and I listened to that 6 wanting some gas. Got an instant shit eating grin on my face. Speaking of gas my next item will be to reform Robert's (Rotary914) SS fuel lines to suite my needs. I was lucky enough to see him at G&R and asked him about bending his lines while in place. They're almost new so I'll make em work for me. After the gas is hooked up I might have see if it will start. unsure.gif The further I get without a major screw up the more I worry I'm due a doozy. blink.gif

Posted by: 76-914 May 3 2014, 06:07 PM

I want to keep center console with it's gage cluster so I thought I'd make a run at installing a Suby gage in the center gage cluster. My donor is a clock.

Attached Image

I read where Toolguy uses a hose clamp around the bezel before prying it off to keep it from stretching and getting beaten to stromberg.gif . My hose clamp was kind of beefy and I didn't trust it would conform so I took this short piece of 2.5" copper and cut a slit in it. The diameter was 1mm too small to slip over the bezel.

Attached Image

Then I placed the gage so the bezel was flush with the edge of the copper sleeve and tightened a hose clamp around the copper to lightly compress the bezel.

Attached Image

Here it is from the south end.

Attached Image

Then work a small flat blade screw driver around about 80% of the circle and remove the bezel and glass.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Next remove the 3 screws from the back, clip the solder joint off and the clock will fall out.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Clamp the gage to the can and mark for first cut with a scroll

Attached Image

Attached Image

A quick test fit

Attached Image

These are the pins that are attached to the circuit board which this gage was originally attached to. I pulled them out of the circuit board with pliers then put them in the vise and hit them with heat and a blast of compressed air to blow out the solder joint. It leaves a neat little pattern where the solder blows.

Attached Image

The 3 posts soldered with leads in and ready to place in the can

Attached Image

I haven't closed the bezel as I need to locate a glass cover w/o the hole in the center. And the silicone holding the gage in place isn't dry but other than that I think this one is done.

Attached Image


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 914forme May 3 2014, 07:31 PM

Nice Job on the gauges Kent, also the pedal cluster made it, and it looks great, thanks again.

Posted by: Jonathan Livesay May 3 2014, 07:40 PM

IPB Image
My Subaru 914 gauges from NHW Speedo.

Posted by: 76-914 May 3 2014, 08:16 PM

QUOTE(914forme @ May 3 2014, 06:31 PM) *

Nice Job on the gauges Kent, also the pedal cluster made it, and it looks great, thanks again.

Thx Stephen, pm me for my phone number when you want you install it. I'll save you a hour or so.

Posted by: 76-914 May 6 2014, 10:02 PM

These might be the last 3 wires that need to be connected. One is an addition; the Check Engine Light, one is Temp which is waiting for the center console for final connection and the other is for the Tach which I haven't converted yet. There are a few wire nuts and crimp connectors that will be corrected but the end is in sight.

Attached Image

Finally got up the courage to cut the front bumper and fairing.. We'll see how this works before I clean it up. It obviously needs to be blacked out before it's screened.

Attached Image

Posted by: euro911 May 6 2014, 10:53 PM

Are those dollies the little half-size HF dollies?

Posted by: Chris H. May 7 2014, 06:21 AM

Now you've done it! Time to gas it up.

Posted by: 76-914 May 7 2014, 08:01 AM

QUOTE(euro911 @ May 6 2014, 09:53 PM) *

Are those dollies the little half-size HF dollies?

Yeppers. I had 2 small ones for dropping the drivetrain. Then I bought the large one. Since the large one has become my welding cart and these 2 small ones have been re-purposed, temporarily. BTW, they work great, are cheaper than their car dollies and can still be used to drop the drivetrain on the 4 banger.

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 7 2014, 05:21 AM) *

Now you've done it! Time to gas it up.

I'm sneaking up on it. lol-2.gif I think back a year ago when I thought it might run by Oct. slap.gif I was smart enough to keep that one to myself. biggrin.gif I know now, that I should never have stopped working on the electrical and should have stayed with it start to finish. The start/stop method requires that I re-familiarize myself each time I re-start and at my age that is not smart. Shit I can't even remember what I had for breakfast! blink.gif

Posted by: Chris H. May 7 2014, 08:44 AM

Yeah don't feel bad I was planning to drive mine to Garold's annual event in August last year. Riiiiight! I'll be lucky to make this one but it's looking pretty good.

Posted by: ruby914 May 7 2014, 10:19 AM

[quote name='Chris H.' post='2034364' date='May 7 2014, 05:21 AM']
Now you've done it! Time to gas it up.
[/quote]
I'm sneaking up on it. lol-2.gif I think back a year ago when I thought it might run by Oct. slap.gif I was smart enough to keep that one to myself. biggrin.gif I know now, that I should never have stopped working on the electrical and should have stayed with it start to finish. The start/stop method requires that I re-familiarize myself each time I re-start and at my age that is not smart. Shit I can't even remember what I had for breakfast! blink.gif
[/quote]

I was going to poke.gif you and Doug to drive to the G&R happy11.gif
Looking good.

Posted by: 76-914 May 7 2014, 01:30 PM

Doug and I would have been happy to drive our new conversions there had we been able. mad.gif If'n the good Lord's willing and the creeks don't rise I'm pretty sure there will be 3 more conversions hitting the road this summer. piratenanner.gif

Posted by: 76-914 May 7 2014, 07:24 PM

The Suby Temp gage that I just transplanted received an upgrade. I had recessed the gage a bit too far, it felt rubbery and was just a hair out of square. As you can seen an 1 1/2" ABS (or PVC) coupling fits like it was made for it. It needs to be trimmed to 28.5mm in length and siliconed on both ends. The ridge or stop inside the coupling will interfer with the gage if it is placed towards the top. IOW, the stop is dead center inside the coupling until I cut some off one end. Now, the gage sits flush, it's base is sturdy and it sets the depth so the needle clears the lens.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 May 7 2014, 07:30 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ May 7 2014, 03:30 PM) *

Doug and I would have been happy to drive our new conversions there had we been able. mad.gif If'n the good Lord's willing and the creeks don't rise I'm pretty sure there will be 3 more conversions hitting the road this summer. piratenanner.gif

Make that 5! Two more coming out of my garage. sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif

Bob

Posted by: CptTripps May 7 2014, 09:08 PM

I'm getting close!

Really only about a month later than I wanted. I can be ok with that.

Your build is looking great man. Stay with it!

Posted by: 76-914 May 8 2014, 10:40 AM

QUOTE(BIGKAT_83 @ May 7 2014, 06:30 PM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ May 7 2014, 03:30 PM) *

Doug and I would have been happy to drive our new conversions there had we been able. mad.gif If'n the good Lord's willing and the creeks don't rise I'm pretty sure there will be 3 more conversions hitting the road this summer. piratenanner.gif

Make that 5! Two more coming out of my garage. sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif


Bob, How about sharing some pic's and info on those? I'd love to tap into your knowledge bank some more. biggrin.gif


QUOTE(CptTripps @ May 7 2014, 08:08 PM) *

I'm getting close!

Really only about a month later than I wanted. I can be ok with that.

Your build is looking great man. Stay with it!

Don't be discouraged if it takes longer, Doug. That 90%/90% rule is a harsh reality when building. If this trend continues RRC, WCR will be joined by SCC. (Suby Conversion Classic) Nah, we might have to explain why more 40 yo air cooled cars made the trip w/o a breakdown than our Suby's av-943.gif lol-2.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: 76-914 May 8 2014, 09:24 PM

While waiting on some tach cans I thought it might be a good idea to run some fuel lines. My original plan was to run the fuel to the left side along the firewall. However, that side ended up being quite busy so I left the SS lines in place. I decided to run the gas line across the engine (just like the 914) but I didn't want to worry about the rubber lines shooting fuel about the compartment. So I bought these 5/16" anodized lines in 51" & 60" lengths. $15 for both.

Attached Image

Then a few simple tools and 45 min's later


Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Test fit the first piece. You can't see it but they will run one spaced above the other along a 1" path above the TB opening. No room to wiggle.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

They're flipped 180 from how they'll attach. That will happen after I drop the engine again. Then I can do some spring cleaning and tidying up.

Attached Image

Posted by: Rotary'14 May 10 2014, 11:38 AM

That looks really nice! Let's hear her fire up!

-Rob

Posted by: 76-914 May 10 2014, 05:27 PM

Thx Rob, but it's no where near your level of expertise.

I found that I needed to change the gage layout a bit if I'm to use the Suby tack and Suby speedo. But I can't use the existing panel and need to make another one. The new panel will have 2 large cans and 1 small can vs. the old layout of 2 small and one large. I think there is just enough room but I won't know until I get the cans next week. But there's stuff I can do now. I need a model so time to pull the gages and remove the panel. Luckily I never removed the markers I put on last year so that was time saved.

Attached Image

A piece of some aluminum plate cut to appx size with a pilot hole for alignment to the OG panel.

Attached Image

My tool box top has a nice big radius lip so I covered the edge with some blue painters tape and pulled the plate across it several times to get a gradual curve like the OG.

Attached Image

Attached Image

A quick layout check

Attached Image

Checking the bottom for flatness after the lower flange(s) were bent. I couldn't have one continuous lip because of the curvature of the face.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Another quick test fit. Still on track.

Attached Image

Now to countersink the holes

Attached Image

Attached Image

I need to buy another flycutter so I can cut those holes. The centers are punched so it will just be a matter of cutting the holes. But before I can do that I need to laminate the back with 5/8" poly carbonate. Once that is drilled out it should create the shoulders for the gages just as the stamped OG panel has. More when the cans arrive.
EDIT: These holes are marked incorrectly. They are each 5mm too large. So 115mm & 100mm.
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 May 12 2014, 09:54 PM

The 2 salvage tach's came today. Thx Garold, once again. Remove 4 screws on the backside and everything falls out after the bezel is removed.

Attached Image

These little post do double duty. They support the gage and also function as light tubes for the blinkers and HiBeam light.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Here is the Suby gage that was cut from the panel cluster. It still needs to be trimmed.

Attached Image

Use the line that is the radius line of the gage face. It's where dull black goes to grey or clear.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Then drill a hole (be damned sure to use a bit for plastic) as shown for the stock HiBeam indicator lite.

Attached Image

This is strictly a Shits n Grin mock up to see is it works. A piece of alum with a couple of holes and some electrical tape to blend in.

Attached Image

Temp taped to the back. Final vers will be glued in place w/ arrows.

Attached Image

The HiBeam hole (in yellow) from the back of gage.

Attached Image

Put a little power to it to see what it would look like. It also need a blue lens for the HiBeam tube. The turn signals are now on the bottom and HiBeam on top. Otherwise it's pretty damned stock looking.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Next up is the Suby Speedo Transfer.

Posted by: ruby914 May 12 2014, 10:12 PM

WOW.
Kent, your making this look far too easy.
Why wasn't this done before. confused24.gif
Maybe, I saw all that circuit board and looked the other way. Didn't think of digging that deep.
I still have my AT Suby cluster and converted and aborted 914 gauges.
I should make mine like you are doing and pass them on. Good work beerchug.gif
popcorn[1].gif popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: 914forme May 14 2014, 05:59 AM

Im not sure why people fear gauges so, but as normal thx for showing us another way of doing this.

BTW, you can pickup a sample of plastic light lens films, the sheets are great to change or update colors for things like High Beams and warning lights. Literally any color you want under the rainbow is yours. All in light translucent glory.

Now lets get this thing fired up driving.gif

Posted by: Chris H. May 14 2014, 06:27 AM

Yeah this is awesome. I liked the SVX gauge faces and thought about cutting them down but decided not to. The panel is way too big but now you got me thinking...

Posted by: 76-914 May 14 2014, 06:12 PM

Well Mike, if it weren't easy and cheap I wouldn't do it. biggrin.gif Thx Stephen and Chris. beerchug.gif . Well this post on the Speedo install will be short because almost all of the work is the same covered in the Tach post! One difference is the speedo is also installed in a large "tach can". As you can see it is the same size as the Suby tach and needs to be trimmed to fit and the window won't have turn signals.

Attached Image

Then I peeled the laminate face off of the old Suby panel face and robbed some needed labels.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Thought I'd throw in this side by side of OG Tach and Suby Tach.

Attached Image

And the finished products

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. May 14 2014, 07:34 PM

Dude.... pray.gif Seriously way to dig into that pod and make it your beyotch.

Posted by: Rotary'14 May 14 2014, 08:05 PM

agree.gif

You are doing some really great work any CSOB will appreciate your ingenuity. I really like how your car is coming along.

Posted by: 76-914 May 14 2014, 10:01 PM

Thx guys but its really just that simple. You'll see if you do it.

Posted by: mgp4591 May 15 2014, 02:25 AM

Great work and you make it look too easy! Now you've got me thinking about my Subie guages.... idea.gif

Posted by: 76-914 May 15 2014, 02:36 PM

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ May 15 2014, 01:25 AM) *

Great work and you make it look too easy! Now you've got me thinking about my Subie guages.... idea.gif

It truly is too easy. Do it! I did neglect to mention that you need to place a few small dabs of silicone to hold the gage face so it won't slide forwards. There are no screws holding it to the back of the can like OEM gages. And the last caveat I foresee is lighting. The OEM gages have openings along the side of the gage to allow light to enter from the rear. I will have to #1- open up some places on the Suby gages to allow for this; #2- install post lamps; #3- install AC style "red" exterior mt. panel lamps; #4- install led's; #5- ship them to Timothy for some of his magic lighting skills. Anyone of these methods should work but I just wanted to throw this out there as it is not the 100% changeover. Lighting (other than those you see working in the pic's) will need to be addressed. beerchug.gif

Posted by: Rotary'14 May 15 2014, 07:25 PM

You might want to try for lighting if you don't go LED,,,since your gauges are open.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=91867&hl=el+wire

-Rob


Posted by: 76-914 May 16 2014, 09:21 AM

QUOTE(Rotary'14 @ May 15 2014, 06:25 PM) *

You might want to try for lighting if you don't go LED,,,since your gauges are open.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=91867&hl=el+wire

-Rob

Perfect! Thx a million Rob. I'll try to locate that material this evening and order it up. If any of you guy's following this live near Doug in OH, give him a ring. He could use some help and friend's from the brotherhood.

Posted by: Chris H. May 16 2014, 09:45 AM

The needles on the Subie gauges also MIGHT light up. Not sure how that works...

I wish I lived closer to Doug...can't swing anything now but we'll see how the summer goes. For sure someone needs to roll out there and help him finish that car. Or BS and tell big fish stories and drink bottled beverages while SITTING in the unfinished car. Man stuff.

Posted by: 914forme May 16 2014, 12:32 PM

I think Doug should toss together a meet up and a few of use might be able to run up, or over depending on our locations. Not many can run down, Lake Erie kinda makes that a little hard. He needs a few good hands on that car to get it done.

I am booked solid though most of the summer.

Posted by: 76-914 May 16 2014, 07:25 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 16 2014, 08:45 AM) *

The needles on the Subie gauges also MIGHT light up. Not sure how that works...

I wish I lived closer to Doug...can't swing anything now but we'll see how the summer goes. For sure someone needs to roll out there and help him finish that car. Or BS and tell big fish stories and drink bottled beverages while SITTING in the unfinished car. Man stuff.

Well Chris, I feel kinda stupid now. It never occurred to me to place the OG lighting back in to verify that it would/would not work. headbang.gif Damnit! I'll get back with you.

Posted by: 76-914 May 16 2014, 07:31 PM

QUOTE(914forme @ May 16 2014, 11:32 AM) *

I think Doug should toss together a meet up and a few of use might be able to run up, or over depending on our locations. Not many can run down, Lake Erie kinda makes that a little hard. He needs a few good hands on that car to get it done.

I am booked solid though most of the summer.

That would be great but the truth is, Doug is a sharp guy and he can get that support right here. And the reality is it will take many month's should he go it alone. Either way he'll finish it but it would be faster if he got some help.

Posted by: CptTripps May 16 2014, 07:41 PM

Thanks Stephen and Kent.

MY reality right now is that I'm moving out of the house with the garage, and may not have access to come here all that often. I'm looking for a "garage space" on Craigslist to move everything to that's closer to where I'll be living for the next few months.

This was a curve ball for sure.

Posted by: 76-914 May 16 2014, 10:30 PM

poke.gif Doug, you have no excuse for not moving to SoCal now.
And Chris, your a genius! I guess I should slow down a little more. As you can see there are a few dark spots but miles better than stock using stock bulbs. piratenanner.gif I suspect the dark spots are areas where the post interfere and I may just leave it as is. Anyway, thanks for stopping in and pulling my head out of my ass, Chris! chair.gif

An Andyesque style but you get the idea.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: rnellums May 17 2014, 05:10 AM

Well that pretty much does it. I'm keeping subie gauges for sure now.

Posted by: Mike Bellis May 17 2014, 09:58 AM

I really dig this gauge mod. first.gif

Posted by: Chris H. May 17 2014, 10:19 AM

Whaaaa? Hey you're DOING stuff...I'm just watching. Very easy to do from the arm chair. Hope I didn't come off wrong 'cause I really have no idea how those things are wired. ALMOST took my pod apart last year but it looked so weird inside compared to the old school gauges I decided not to. If the needles light up that will look awesome. The CEL light is a bonus too. If you can't get good light uniformity when you get them all done go for LED in the background and light up the needles with regular lights. I have an SVX and an Impreza gauge pod if you break anything but it looks like you're good. To this point I was planning to go all VDO but I'm calling a major time out now.

BTW I will be ready to ship that Honda OR Yamaha filler neck this weekend. Gonna start the plumbing and it really looks like the Yamaha will win but who knows.... You need any 7/8 hose for the connection down to the tee or do you still have plenty?

Posted by: 76-914 May 17 2014, 06:42 PM

QUOTE(rnellums @ May 17 2014, 04:10 AM) *

Well that pretty much does it. I'm keeping subie gauges for sure now.

Do it. It's free. How much can go wrong at that price? biggrin.gif

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ May 17 2014, 08:58 AM) *

I really dig this gauge mod. first.gif

Thanks Mike, Hope you'll like all my dumb elec questions when I'm trying to start this thing. lol-2.gif

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 17 2014, 09:19 AM) *

Whaaaa? Hey you're DOING stuff...I'm just watching. Very easy to do from the arm chair. Hope I didn't come off wrong 'cause I really have no idea how those things are wired. ALMOST took my pod apart last year but it looked so weird inside compared to the old school gauges I decided not to. If the needles light up that will look awesome. The CEL light is a bonus too. If you can't get good light uniformity when you get them all done go for LED in the background and light up the needles with regular lights. I have an SVX and an Impreza gauge pod if you break anything but it looks like you're good. To this point I was planning to go all VDO but I'm calling a major time out now.

BTW I will be ready to ship that Honda OR Yamaha filler neck this weekend. Gonna start the plumbing and it really looks like the Yamaha will win but who knows.... You need any 7/8 hose for the connection down to the tee or do you still have plenty?

I was amazed I skipped the obvious and went for the difficult. Thx for pointing it out. I'm good on hose. I did as you did. Bought open boxes on Ebay. Much cheaper. Do You have a good source on fuel hose?

OK, I've beat this gage build to death to death but I wanted to show the gages installed in their new panel. Here is what is looked liked before.

Attached Image

Attached Image

I had wanted to spruce up this panel before but decided not to. I'm glad I had a reason to do this matching panel. smile.gif The only thing I haven't revealed is the way the gages are supported vs. the old rubber gasket in a sleeve stamped during production. My 1st attempt was a miserable failure. I may have it this go around but will hold off till I know that it works. It's so simple I hope it does work.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image


Posted by: mgp4591 May 17 2014, 06:52 PM

Beat it to death?? Whatever dude! It's info and pics like this that let us drool over the work and gives us all kinds of ideas! And gets us going on to the next project, brings smiles to faces, gives hope to the hopeless... oh well, it's just idol worshipping at this point... smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: Chris H. May 17 2014, 07:31 PM

Wow. Those look stock like they belong there. Game changer. Looks like I might need some busted tachs!

Hey Kent I've been thinking about your cooling system. This is just a suggestion, but if you teed that 7/8 return line directly into the larger lines at the engine so they're at the same height, would this be your high point?

Attached Image

You COULD put the filler neck there if you wanted to whenever you decide to take the copper stuff out. I'm sure you could find a spot for a reservoir or move your washer bottle. Just an idea. Not saying it's a good one. I can't tell if that's actually the highest point or not.

Posted by: 76-914 May 17 2014, 07:48 PM

You read my mind. That is indeed a high spot and the one on the left side is almost as high. I had planned on placing that filler neck a few inches behind that. With a vent tee installed on the left side 3/4" hose. And with the filler neck in the engine compartment, I'll have 3 spots from which to vent/fill. piratenanner.gif

Posted by: Chris H. May 17 2014, 07:54 PM

Well I better get to work then! Finally have part of a day tomorrow. Those gauges are KILLER man. I'm gonna pull mine out and look at them tonight.

Posted by: 914forme May 18 2014, 09:30 AM

Did a great job on the gauges. You must be running a center console or some other location.

I missed something though, is that stock Subaru gauge lighting? I am 1/4 awake and blind with out my glasses. Time for me to get wrenching, I am still on the tear down part of my project.

Goals today:
Finish indexing wheel on rotisserie.
Finish cutting up my front tub section, got the sheet metal I needed.
Pull the SVX engine and parts

Man I need to get off your post and get to work!!!!!!!

Kent keep up the great CSOB work, I love it. first.gif

Posted by: 76-914 May 18 2014, 05:15 PM

Thanks for all the praise Guy's but I just fell in a bucket of stromberg.gif and came out smelling like a Rose. biggrin.gif And Stephen, no stock 914 lighting. You use two 914 Tach cans and re-use the stock lighting. All of it + 1 ck eng lite.

I said I would post the results of my 2nd attempt to support the gages if successful. First time I laminated 3 layers of poly carbonate (safety glass) successfully duplicating the curvature of the panel however when cutting the large diameter holes the fly cutter created enough heat to warp the small span areas. A few hours trashed there. Take a look at the next pic to see if you can guess where this is headed.

Attached Image

Think you know. I thought about glass to build up the back or even cardboard soaked in resin. But I settled on the $4 method. A can of this stuff. It is semi flexible which served me well as it is easy to manipulate for fitting and doesn't break off when bent. Yet it is sandable.

Attached Image

So I squirted out a nice layer around everything and let it dry.

Attached Image

These are the gages being taped firmly against panel prior to rotating for urethane foam.

Attached Image

Here it is after curing and first trim. That was done with a hack saw blade held flush with the gage backs. In this pic the first gage has been pushed out and you can see the remnants of tape, wax paper, and even some oozing of foam from the thick area. If you push with your thumbs while reaching around to the front lip with your fingers you can wiggle the gage a few times and it will release from the mold.

Attached Image

A few more as it is trimmed.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

You've already seen what the gages look like installed so I won't bore you with that but if you don't want to go thru all of that you can take the rubber ring's that are tossed and install them from the rear with the lip firmly against the rear of the panel; then tighten the clamp. beerchug.gif . Downside is you would have to install the panel/gages as a modular unit but damnnnnnnnnnnnn it's so easu to install that way. biggrin.gif

Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. May 18 2014, 08:08 PM

I checked out the SVX gauge cluster and realized it was cracked at the base so I took it apart to see what the guts looked like. The problem with the tach and speedo is they aren't round. You could put some warning lights from the strip on the bottom to round it off.

FYI...prior to about 2005ish the backgrounds for the gauges themselves on most models are tinted green. If you don't like that you'd have to put some sort of backing on it.

Attached Image

There are no wires at all since the power is run on the back side of the cluster and connected with the screws that secure the gauges

Attached Image

Attached Image

The warning light system is surprisingly simple...just a regular light underneath the corresponding warning symbol. Easy to recreate.

Attached Image

This is the Impreza pod I have... If you like this style go for the WRX one instead with the larger tach in the center instead of the larger speedo. 2006 model (white background)

Attached Image

Maybe we should start a gauge thread... idea.gif

Posted by: 76-914 May 18 2014, 10:08 PM

What is the diameter of the SVX gage. And yes you could fill in the flat area. What are the diameters on the Impreza gages. Shoot me a close up of the back of those SVX gages. I want to see where the screws go. Are you talking about posts that slip inside the back of the gage when you say screws. Maybe 4 post per gage? If so you have to pull them from the circuit board with a pair of pliers or side cutters. I don't know if we need to start another thread on gages. It's Suby stuff and there is just a few of us. You can put it in your thread or Dougs thread or even Stephans tread. We could just add our Suby gage info to one if Pat Garvey's threads since he is feeling better. av-943.gif lol-2.gif

Posted by: ruby914 May 18 2014, 10:30 PM

Chris, I did the same thing you did, pulled my extra AT WRX cluster apart.
I wanted to see if the Suby cluster could be cut down, to just the face and circuit board, if it would fit within the 914 form.
It is tight but I see possibilities.

Kent, you had some dark areas on your gauge faces. Are you utilizing the clear polycarbonate prism looking part that channels the back light to the gauge numbers?
That may give you uniform light even if you have to drill holes in it.

Here is a photo of the post.


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. May 19 2014, 06:07 AM

Wow weird. On the SVX pod there are no such posts. When you unscrew the gauges this is what you see:

Attached Image

Just plastic. The "wiring" is a flat copper piece that runs on the back of the pod. I guess the screws actually complete the connection because I can't see anything else connected to them.

Attached Image

The SVX gauges are pretty big, about 4.5". The Impreza middle gauge circle (either speedo or tach, whichever you get) is about 100MM, just shy of 4". The smaller ones are about 3.6", 91mm-ish. The plastic silver surround is an overlay so you can take that out and cut the circular piece out without having to use that silver part.

Posted by: 76-914 May 19 2014, 08:08 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 19 2014, 05:07 AM) *

Wow weird. On the SVX pod there are no such posts. When you unscrew the gauges this is what you see:

Attached Image

Just plastic. The "wiring" is a flat copper piece that runs on the back of the pod. I guess the screws actually complete the connection because I can't see anything else connected to them.

Attached Image

The SVX gauges are pretty big, about 4.5". The Impreza middle gauge circle (either speedo or tach, whichever you get) is about 100MM, just shy of 4". The smaller ones are about 3.6", 91mm-ish. The plastic silver surround is an overlay so you can take that out and cut the circular piece out without having to use that silver part.

4.5" is about 114.3 mm which is fine for the large can and the Impreza middle gage is almost perfect. The smaller Impreza gages would need some buildup but easy to do. Those studs would be easy to attach power. If you go the Impreza route just pull those pins out of the circuit board and solder to wire leads. I'm not sure about the compatibility between the Impreza gages and the 6's though. poke.gif I'll be looking for some Suby posts from you and Ross, now.

Posted by: Chris H. May 19 2014, 03:59 PM

And the loser of the filler neck bake off and therefore on the way to Kent's house is.......

The Honda filler!!! I really like the compact size of this one. It was close but the thing that makes this perfect for you and not me is that the "down tube" is angled. It's like it was made for the front trunk. I needed one to go straight down. By the way I was wrong on the inlet sizes, looks like they are 1" on both types but I was able to very easily stretch the 7/8 on to both fillers by setting the end in fairly hot (out of the tap) water for a few minutes. No problem at all, slid right on.

Attached Image


BTW I wish I lived closer. Would have come over and pressed my $@#*ing roll pin out of the pedal cluster. Used a punch and the damn thing snapped off in there. Now I can't seem to find a drill bit that will actually drill the punch since it's such a hard metal. Pain in my arse. I remember installing that thing and thinking it was pretty hard to get in there, but hey I figured it was the last time I'd have to do that! headbang.gif

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 May 19 2014, 06:04 PM

You won't believe what a perfect angle that is for my install. Perfect and thanks again, Chris. Be sure your punch is not a nail set. Those are pointed and will flare out the roll pin and cause it to grip even tighter. You can use a 6mm bolt for a drive pin/punch in a squeeze on that size roll pin. Be sure that the piece is on something heavy and solid when you strike it.

Posted by: Chris H. May 19 2014, 06:35 PM

Yeah that's exactly what I did. Grabbed the wrong punch and the tip snapped off inside the center of the pin too so now it's really going well. BEEEYOTCH! I'll leave it for a day and try the bolt trick after I attempt to tap the punch piece out of the center.

You should get that filler in 3 days or so. Then it'll be about time to start that thing! BTW I think the cap pressure rating is 1.1 (16 lbs I think) which is higher than most stock subaru cap ratings of .9. Makes it even more perfect since you are running two fillers. Just make sure you use a .9 cap (13 lbs) on the rear one and that way if it ever overheats the pressure will release on the rear one first. Not saying the front one won't pop too but logically it would have to be VERY hot to get the secondary one to open when the system was already open and blowing steam.

That's not gonna happen anyway because it will be super cool all the time and never overheat.

Posted by: 76-914 May 20 2014, 07:48 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 19 2014, 05:35 PM) *

Yeah that's exactly what I did. Grabbed the wrong punch and the tip snapped off inside the center of the pin too so now it's really going well. BEEEYOTCH! I'll leave it for a day and try the bolt trick after I attempt to tap the punch piece out of the center.

You should get that filler in 3 days or so. Then it'll be about time to start that thing! BTW I think the cap pressure rating is 1.1 (16 lbs I think) which is higher than most stock subaru cap ratings of .9. Makes it even more perfect since you are running two fillers. Just make sure you use a .9 cap (13 lbs) on the rear one and that way if it ever overheats the pressure will release on the rear one first. Not saying the front one won't pop too but logically it would have to be VERY hot to get the secondary one to open when the system was already open and blowing steam.

That's not gonna happen anyway because it will be super cool all the time and never overheat.

A big thanks for that. That was along my line of thinking with the caps of different ratings. I'll mail that Mapp 1/2 cylinder off to you in a couple of days, too. Pretty busy w/ work this week.

Posted by: Chris H. May 20 2014, 10:11 AM

No rush brother. I got plenty to do. Decided I need to pull my headers and get them jet-hot ceramic coated. They are practically touching the engine mounts. Gonna melt them for sure if I don't.

Posted by: 76-914 May 20 2014, 08:41 PM

Well as the title says, I may have Shit in my Mess Kit but if I did I had fun and they will make nice ornaments. The Wtr Temp gage is good however tonite I began to search the Suby manual so I would know which wire went where from the Tach and Speedo. They 4 wires from each gage are COS+, COS-, SIN+ and SIN-. This part of the manual isn't clear but I think those wires go to a processor. ???? I'm stumped. Any ideas or suggestions??

Posted by: Chris H. May 20 2014, 09:13 PM

Well the tach should connect to the ECU, or at least that's the way the SVX's works. Only one wire though. The speedo connects to the sensor on the trans but there are not 4 wires there either. Seems like that "circuit board" you pulled the pins out of was something you might need to use still. You can probably still use the gauges, just have to take a look at what that board does and maybe leave the gauges connected to it and solder a couple of wires for the speed sensor and tach wire. Also follow the wiring from that board back to the ECU and see if there is anything else in between. If not you can have the SVX gauges. I definitely won't use those.

Posted by: 904svo May 21 2014, 06:50 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 20 2014, 07:13 PM) *

Well the tach should connect to the ECU, or at least that's the way the SVX's works. Only one wire though. The speedo connects to the sensor on the trans but there are not 4 wires there either. Seems like that "circuit board" you pulled the pins out of was something you might need to use still. You can probably still use the gauges, just have to take a look at what that board does and maybe leave the gauges connected to it and solder a couple of wires for the speed sensor and tach wire. Also follow the wiring from that board back to the ECU and see if there is anything else in between. If not you can have the SVX gauges. I definitely won't use those.


There is a micro processor in the instrument cluster which drives the tach,speedometer and low fuel light.

Posted by: 76-914 May 21 2014, 08:44 AM

QUOTE(904svo @ May 21 2014, 05:50 AM) *

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 20 2014, 07:13 PM) *

Well the tach should connect to the ECU, or at least that's the way the SVX's works. Only one wire though. The speedo connects to the sensor on the trans but there are not 4 wires there either. Seems like that "circuit board" you pulled the pins out of was something you might need to use still. You can probably still use the gauges, just have to take a look at what that board does and maybe leave the gauges connected to it and solder a couple of wires for the speed sensor and tach wire. Also follow the wiring from that board back to the ECU and see if there is anything else in between. If not you can have the SVX gauges. I definitely won't use those.


There is a micro processor in the instrument cluster which drives the tach,speedometer and low fuel light.

Yea, I thought so. I guess if you don't have an easy solution I'm screwed. sad.gif I did give a quick look at the circuit board but that is way above a plumbers pay scale. Those are incredibly small lines to follow; I don't think I could solder anything to the board successfully; and if I could I wouldn't know which ones to use or not use. I'm not sure if those SVX gages would work, Chris. I'll probably go with Dakota if this can't be resolved, easily.

Posted by: 904svo May 21 2014, 09:36 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ May 21 2014, 06:44 AM) *

QUOTE(904svo @ May 21 2014, 05:50 AM) *

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 20 2014, 07:13 PM) *

Well the tach should connect to the ECU, or at least that's the way the SVX's works. Only one wire though. The speedo connects to the sensor on the trans but there are not 4 wires there either. Seems like that "circuit board" you pulled the pins out of was something you might need to use still. You can probably still use the gauges, just have to take a look at what that board does and maybe leave the gauges connected to it and solder a couple of wires for the speed sensor and tach wire. Also follow the wiring from that board back to the ECU and see if there is anything else in between. If not you can have the SVX gauges. I definitely won't use those.


There is a micro processor in the instrument cluster which drives the tach,speedometer and low fuel light.

Yea, I thought so. I guess if you don't have an easy solution I'm screwed. sad.gif I did give a quick look at the circuit board but that is way above a plumbers pay scale. Those are incredibly small lines to follow; I don't think I could solder anything to the board successfully; and if I could I wouldn't know which ones to use or not use. I'm not sure if those SVX gages would work, Chris. I'll probably go with Dakota if this can't be resolved, easily.


You could extend the leads from the instrument panel to the gauges, and hid the
instrument panel under the dash.

Posted by: 904svo May 21 2014, 09:43 AM

On my conversion I used the stock 914 gauges, for the tach I added a adapter to convert the 5 volt pulse to a HV pulse to drive the tack. The speedometer uses the
stock 914 transmission drive cable. If you are using a stock gas tank you use the
stock gas gauge sender to drive the gas gauge, In my case I added a circuit to
drive the ecu (for emission testing) an to drive the stock gas gauge with a low
fuel indicator.

Posted by: 76-914 May 21 2014, 11:18 AM

Yes, I've read (somewhere) about your tach conversion and will have to dig that up. And yes, I am using the stock fuel sender and gage, also. I'm running the Suby trans so I may end up with some magnetic pick up system (hall effect?).

Posted by: euro911 May 21 2014, 11:18 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ May 20 2014, 06:41 PM) *
Well as the title says, I may have Shit in my Mess Kit but if I did I had fun and they will make nice ornaments. The Wtr Temp gage is good however tonite I began to search the Suby manual so I would know which wire went where from the Tach and Speedo. They 4 wires from each gage are COS+, COS-, SIN+ and SIN-. This part of the manual isn't clear but I think those wires go to a processor. ???? I'm stumped. Any ideas or suggestions??
COS, SIN? ... are you going off on a TANGENT? laugh.gif

Posted by: 76-914 May 21 2014, 11:19 AM

Where's my slide rule?

Posted by: 904svo May 21 2014, 12:30 PM

I think you are looking at the wrong sender for the speedo, it works off the VSS
sending unit mounted to the trans and is a 5 volt pulse. It is normally has three wires.

Posted by: ruby914 May 21 2014, 01:15 PM

QUOTE(904svo @ May 21 2014, 08:36 AM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ May 21 2014, 06:44 AM) *

QUOTE(904svo @ May 21 2014, 05:50 AM) *

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 20 2014, 07:13 PM) *

Well the tach should connect to the ECU, or at least that's the way the SVX's works. Only one wire though. The speedo connects to the sensor on the trans but there are not 4 wires there either. Seems like that "circuit board" you pulled the pins out of was something you might need to use still. You can probably still use the gauges, just have to take a look at what that board does and maybe leave the gauges connected to it and solder a couple of wires for the speed sensor and tach wire. Also follow the wiring from that board back to the ECU and see if there is anything else in between. If not you can have the SVX gauges. I definitely won't use those.


There is a micro processor in the instrument cluster which drives the tach,speedometer and low fuel light.

Yea, I thought so. I guess if you don't have an easy solution I'm screwed. sad.gif I did give a quick look at the circuit board but that is way above a plumbers pay scale. Those are incredibly small lines to follow; I don't think I could solder anything to the board successfully; and if I could I wouldn't know which ones to use or not use. I'm not sure if those SVX gages would work, Chris. I'll probably go with Dakota if this can't be resolved, easily.


You could extend the leads from the instrument panel to the gauges, and hid the
instrument panel under the dash.

That is the direction I was thinking about. Off set the circuit board, extend the lights and and gauges in a new bezel.


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 904svo May 21 2014, 02:34 PM

QUOTE(ruby914 @ May 21 2014, 11:15 AM) *

QUOTE(904svo @ May 21 2014, 08:36 AM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ May 21 2014, 06:44 AM) *

QUOTE(904svo @ May 21 2014, 05:50 AM) *

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 20 2014, 07:13 PM) *

Well the tach should connect to the ECU, or at least that's the way the SVX's works. Only one wire though. The speedo connects to the sensor on the trans but there are not 4 wires there either. Seems like that "circuit board" you pulled the pins out of was something you might need to use still. You can probably still use the gauges, just have to take a look at what that board does and maybe leave the gauges connected to it and solder a couple of wires for the speed sensor and tach wire. Also follow the wiring from that board back to the ECU and see if there is anything else in between. If not you can have the SVX gauges. I definitely won't use those.


There is a micro processor in the instrument cluster which drives the tach,speedometer and low fuel light.

Yea, I thought so. I guess if you don't have an easy solution I'm screwed. sad.gif I did give a quick look at the circuit board but that is way above a plumbers pay scale. Those are incredibly small lines to follow; I don't think I could solder anything to the board successfully; and if I could I wouldn't know which ones to use or not use. I'm not sure if those SVX gages would work, Chris. I'll probably go with Dakota if this can't be resolved, easily.


You could extend the leads from the instrument panel to the gauges, and hid the
instrument panel under the dash.

That is the direction I was thinking about. Off set the circuit board, extend the lights and and gauges in a new bezel.


The 914 sending unit should operate the Subaru fuel gauge if you wire it up to the
instrument cluster. They both use 0-90 ohm senders.

Posted by: Chris H. May 21 2014, 04:20 PM

Think I'm starting to migrate back towards the original direction of Speedhut gauges. I want something a little newer looking and those are so easy to set up. I'm not as good with small electrical stuff as you all are.

Kent I have the same Impreza gauge pod (manual trans so no PRND321 on it) and a tach adapt to change the tach to 6 cylinder readout. The speedo should connect to the vss on your trans. Probably would let them go for less than I paid (which is not much) if you decide you want to go that way.

Don't feel obligated, just telling you so you don't go buy 'em somewhere else for more. I think I got the gauge for ~$40 and the tach adapt for $65.

Posted by: 76-914 May 21 2014, 06:10 PM

QUOTE(904svo @ May 21 2014, 11:30 AM) *

I think you are looking at the wrong sender for the speedo, it works off the VSS
sending unit mounted to the trans and is a 5 volt pulse. It is normally has three wires.

This is what confuses me. I have a single lead from the ECU (smallcar harness) that is tagged for the tachto but the tach is the same set up as the speedo with 4 wires as shown below. Also a pic of the circ board they came from. Any idea which post are used and which are not?

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 21 2014, 03:20 PM) *

Think I'm starting to migrate back towards the original direction of Speedhut gauges. I want something a little newer looking and those are so easy to set up. I'm not as good with small electrical stuff as you all are.

Kent I have the same Impreza gauge pod (manual trans so no PRND321 on it) and a tach adapt to change the tach to 6 cylinder readout. The speedo should connect to the vss on your trans. Probably would let them go for less than I paid (which is not much) if you decide you want to go that way.

Don't feel obligated, just telling you so you don't go buy 'em somewhere else for more. I think I got the gauge for ~$40 and the tach adapt for $65.

Shit, me too, Chris. I don't have a problem with cutting my losses. I checked my circuit board and it is cracked in a few places so that door is closed. If it weren't I'd take SVO's advice and hide the board. All I need is a speedo and tach so I may go the Speedhut or Dakota route. I'll keep your adp in mind if I go that route.

Posted by: Chris H. May 21 2014, 06:39 PM

Check out the Speedhut stuff. The tach is totally programmable for most any engine and the speedo is gps. By the time you spend money on the senders you're half way there. A 4.5 inch tach and a 4" speedo revolution series is what I'm looking at. Brand new gauges, plug and play. The tach instructions are on the site too and show how to set it up on a bunch of different engine configurations. I'll go quad gauge too I think.

Posted by: 914forme May 21 2014, 07:57 PM

SpeedHuts are very shallow install depths. I like them, they also do a nice quad quad gauge if your looking for one of them. To be honest By the time you get done doing all the work, it is way cheaper to go this route. I just did them because I like to and it keeps me off the streets at night! But at some point in time if it is keeping you off the streets, it has a larger cost damage than the benefit of being a CSOB.

Posted by: Chris H. May 21 2014, 09:11 PM

Right because you end up buying 6 different kinds of gauges to try with the CSOB method. Hence my collection of VDO and Denso swag.

Posted by: 914forme May 23 2014, 05:43 AM

agree.gif I have drawers full, and $$$$ in these things. Evn for me I can make almost any gauge combination I want. happy11.gif I keep going back to speed hut and building a set of gauges.

I like them, they come with the sending units, GPS speedo, tachs that can do almost any signal, and customizable with graphics, etc....

For me the biggest issues with gauges is getting the faces to come out correctly. The lines, the fonts, the overall look and feel. Its about quality.

I love building things, but as I get older I have started to realize I will pay for some else's experience. I love being a CSOB, but look at things I have done recently and being CSOB, has not been paying off.

My rotisserie for example. Doug had one for $450, does everything mine does. Oh sure, I could hook up a motor to it ,and rotate it all day long with almost zero friction. idea.gif I should use it for my next whole hog project! But in the end to get it where and the way I wanted it, I have spent way more than the $450. But I will say it was all kinds of fun.

I was going to build my flares, looking at the Metal Surgeon Threads I realized, I did not have the skills, to shape metal that well. But I really like the idea of a mostly body filler free car. So I hired a guy to make me a few flares. I don't expect him to be able to configure Cisco, HP, Aruba, PaloAlto networks and Firewalls. I don't expect him to know the details on how VMWare, or Hyper-V work. And I sure as heck would not have him do custom IP sub netting or IPV6 work. But build me parts, he is one of the best out there. first.gif

I will be welding in the flares, and spending a lot of time with a hammer and dolly, and easy grind wire. But it is a balancing act.

I could have built my cradle, I have the skills to do that, in the end, I would have purchased more in tools to do the project. Ian made it easy. Same thing with the shifter, I haven't even opened the box yet. I am sure it will be great looking time, much nicer than I could do!

Now, I did my own sway bars. They roll in roller bearings have no binding and no rotational friction. I built all these mounts and sourced my parts, used NASCAR bits, and bearings and retainers from TSC. Less than $100 I have a better system than I could buy. CSOB was worth it!

You win some you loose some. Some times you do it just because the mountain was there.

Now lets get back to building this car and getting it on the road. driving.gif I need to live vicariously through you, Chris, and Doug! My conversion is at least a year out! Okay two, my boss says I'm to optimistic. poke.gif

Posted by: 76-914 May 23 2014, 08:34 AM

Your right, Stephen. I have no problem with getting back on the horse. And I'm certainly no stranger to failure. My craziness comes from wanting to try it myself which is an open invitation to failure. lol-2.gif About 20 yr's ago I built an airplane. After that I pretty much got over having to do things 2,3 and 4 times (or more). Some journeys are longer and some are more difficult. It's the journey missed that I fear. beerchug.gif

Posted by: 904svo May 23 2014, 09:44 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ May 21 2014, 04:10 PM) *

QUOTE(904svo @ May 21 2014, 11:30 AM) *

I think you are looking at the wrong sender for the speedo, it works off the VSS
sending unit mounted to the trans and is a 5 volt pulse. It is normally has three wires.

This is what confuses me. I have a single lead from the ECU (smallcar harness) that is tagged for the tachto but the tach is the same set up as the speedo with 4 wires as shown below. Also a pic of the circ board they came from. Any idea which post are used and which are not?

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 21 2014, 03:20 PM) *

Think I'm starting to migrate back towards the original direction of Speedhut gauges. I want something a little newer looking and those are so easy to set up. I'm not as good with small electrical stuff as you all are.

Kent I have the same Impreza gauge pod (manual trans so no PRND321 on it) and a tach adapt to change the tach to 6 cylinder readout. The speedo should connect to the vss on your trans. Probably would let them go for less than I paid (which is not much) if you decide you want to go that way.

Don't feel obligated, just telling you so you don't go buy 'em somewhere else for more. I think I got the gauge for ~$40 and the tach adapt for $65.

Shit, me too, Chris. I don't have a problem with cutting my losses. I checked my circuit board and it is cracked in a few places so that door is closed. If it weren't I'd take SVO's advice and hide the board. All I need is a speedo and tach so I may go the Speedhut or Dakota route. I'll keep your adp in mind if I go that route.


You must supply power and grounds to the instrument panel for it to work, the gas gauge gets its power from the cluster and must be wired to the 914 gas gauge W
lead and ground lead.

Posted by: JRust May 23 2014, 12:40 PM

I love my speedhut guages! I highly recommend them with suby conversions. Look good & they come setup to work. A little info from you & they are ready out of the box. Of course setting them up was even easier for me blink.gif

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 May 23 2014, 02:45 PM

Look at SPEK gauges, the best out there. Kind of costly

Bob

Posted by: 76-914 May 23 2014, 07:27 PM

QUOTE(BIGKAT_83 @ May 23 2014, 01:45 PM) *

Look at SPEK gauges, the best out there. Kind of costly

Bob

Hey Bob Robert, how ere ya? They look nice but they're too big. They're 5" and I'm maxed out on the 4.5" hole. On another note I thought I would tinker with the Suby gages. If I put 1.5v, 3v or 4.5v (I didn't want to exceed 5v) to COS+ & COS- the needle jumps to about 40mph indicated and stays there. And if I do the same to SIN+ & SIN- it does the same thing; 40mph indicated. However, if you hit a very quick tap of power to the gage the needle will jump to the other side where it wants to remain. That is until I energize S+ & S-. Now the SIN side pulls the needle back to 0. Negative influence that previously was positive. I think these 2 work in harmony with some dampening effect upon each other. Whatever, I don't think or know for that matter, if the sender from the Suby trans will work with the gage in it's present condition. So, I believe those Suby gages shall become lamps. smash.gif I'll re-use the 914 tach with an adapter (thx ChrisH) and order a Speedhut Speedometer. On that note, do you guys think the Swiss Font looks more stock or the Euro Font? To me the Swiss Font seems closer.

Posted by: Chris H. May 23 2014, 08:05 PM

Hey 15% off sale at speedhut this weekend!!!! Woooot! That settles it. BTW Kent I got your paypal. Will send that tach adapt out to you tomorrow.

I personally like the eurostile font but that style really matches the later Porsche gauge font. Hold the tach up to the screen and see what works best.

Posted by: 76-914 May 23 2014, 09:33 PM

Great tip on that sale, Chris. Ordered my GPS Speedo tonite!

Posted by: euro911 May 24 2014, 03:31 AM

Pretty cool. Which one fits the standard 914 hole, the 4.5"? http://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4.5-GPS-02T/1/GPS-Speedometer-Gauge-140mph-%28w--turn-signal-and-high-beam%29

Posted by: 76-914 May 24 2014, 07:46 AM

That depends. The small gage is 100mm and the large gage is 115mm. Your hole size may be slightly larger if you use the OEM rubber ring. No wrenching for me this weekend. I wrenched my back a bit so I'll give it a rest this weekend.

Posted by: Chris H. May 24 2014, 07:46 AM

Yeah I was just measuring that myself....looks like 4" is the diameter of the smaller gauges (speedo, combo). I had heard 3 3/8 before. Hey Kent, just FYI in case you ordered 3 3/8!

Bummer about your back! Take it easy!

Posted by: 76-914 May 24 2014, 07:52 AM

Nope, 4.5". Check post #347. I ended up with 2 large and one small opening after my gage follies. Heck of a deal, thank you. $260 shipped.

Posted by: Chris H. May 24 2014, 07:53 AM

Oh right, duh...you stayed with the modified opening.

Posted by: euro911 May 24 2014, 08:27 PM

Just measured the inside of the speedo's rubber ring. 4" looks to be right diameter for a stock 914 dash panel smile.gif

Font Style: Century

Attached Image

Attached Image


Posted by: 76-914 May 25 2014, 09:01 AM

I missed that Mark but I did read the 4.25" gage size before ordering. With my panel I'm good.

Posted by: euro911 May 25 2014, 03:25 PM

I ordered a 4"-er for the 'BB'.

When I get it, I think I'm gonna black out the extra 'ticks' so it will look more like a stock VDO speedo. Also went with the 'Century' font ...

Will look like this when modified:

Attached Image

aktion035.gif

Posted by: Chris H. May 26 2014, 08:36 PM

Mark speedhut MIGHT take those tick marks out or print a face without them for you for cheap. They do a lot of custom stuff. I know Chris (my928s4) added a redline on his tach.

Finally bought mine!

4" quad

Attached Image

4.5" tach

Attached Image

4" speedo

Attached Image

Eurostile font, blue night lighting.

$602 with shipping. Can't beat that since the quad gauge comes with temp and pressure senders, speedo is GPS, tach can be set up with any engine you might use going forward. The GPS converter I needed for the 911 speedo I was going to use was like $15 less than the gauge.

Posted by: euro911 May 26 2014, 09:07 PM

Thanks for the suggestion, Chris. I just sent them an e-mail and attached the pic smile.gif

I'll let y'all know what they say

(I also blacked out the Speedhut made in USA lettering) hide.gif

Posted by: 76-914 May 26 2014, 09:24 PM

Well, I'm 10 days from a gage but I decided to keep moving. What started off as a quick modification to the fuel filter location led to, testing which meant adding gas which led to this. piratenanner.gif No fried wires, yet. biggrin.gif
I give up, here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg9OiDWLab4&feature=youtu.be

Posted by: Chris H. May 26 2014, 09:32 PM

Sounds great! Awesome!!!! FYI the magic smoke usually happens pretty quickly so you should be fine.



Ah there we go...a 9 kept sneaking on to the end of the embed code.

Posted by: '73-914kid May 26 2014, 09:42 PM

I claim first ride along! Sounds GREAT Kent!

Posted by: Rotary'14 May 26 2014, 10:32 PM

congrats! what a great feeling when you hear it bark to life.

Posted by: ruby914 May 26 2014, 11:17 PM

Cool! smile.gif Sounds great! Any codes? Time to clear out the driveway and go for a ride. smile.gif beerchug.gifAttached Image

Posted by: CptTripps May 27 2014, 06:45 AM

Bad-ass man! That's fantastic news and a great video. Sounds awesome.

I should only be a few days behind you. (At least I hope I am!)

Posted by: 76-914 May 27 2014, 07:55 AM

Thx guys, I'm still pinching myself to see if this is real. Many things known and unknown have yet to be addressed. Codes? Don't know yet. I haven't mounted that light yet. I still have to check out the cooling which could be a Royal PITA. But everything else seems small now. Just a matter of wringing it out. I will make this statement, however. When it fired up, both smoothly & immediately, I was reminded as to why I made the change. Improved engine management systems. beerchug.gif Hopefully she gets to taste some asphalt next week. evilgrin.gif
Chit: I just noticed your "Welcome" banner Mike; totally cool!

Posted by: CptTripps May 27 2014, 08:16 AM

Are you re-flashing the stock ECU with updated software? There are a lot of options for that.

Posted by: 76-914 May 27 2014, 08:26 AM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ May 27 2014, 07:16 AM) *

Are you re-flashing the stock ECU with updated software? There are a lot of options for that.

I think I will but I know nothing about that subject other than the "few" articles I have found. I'll take any info you have on that subject, Doug. BTW, Chris and I are talking a RRC rendezvous this September for the "3 Subyteer's". You up for that?

Posted by: euro911 May 29 2014, 04:32 PM

Just a follow-up, Speedhut charged me $10 for the 'custom artwork' face smile.gif

Posted by: Chris H. May 29 2014, 04:58 PM

OUTRAGEOUS!!!!! I can get three cups of coffee downtown for that! biggrin.gif

Posted by: CptTripps May 29 2014, 05:56 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ May 27 2014, 10:26 AM) *

I think I will but I know nothing about that subject other than the "few" articles I have found. I'll take any info you have on that subject, Doug. BTW, Chris and I are talking a RRC rendezvous this September for the "3 Subyteer's". You up for that?


I'm in if I can make it work. Seriously...I'll have the car sent out, and then fly there and drive it back. That'd be a blast.

Posted by: 76-914 May 29 2014, 06:36 PM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ May 29 2014, 04:56 PM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ May 27 2014, 10:26 AM) *

I think I will but I know nothing about that subject other than the "few" articles I have found. I'll take any info you have on that subject, Doug. BTW, Chris and I are talking a RRC rendezvous this September for the "3 Subyteer's". You up for that?


I'm in if I can make it work. Seriously...I'll have the car sent out, and then fly there and drive it back. That'd be a blast.

Uh Doug, I've got a feeling you will not like some one else driving your car. More especially a Turbo powered Fucking Rocket that can and will get ahead of you. You like the plane theme so think of your car as the "Merlin" powered P-51. Killed many a green pilot on take off. Too much throttle input and they flipped over on take off. Those little wings couldn't handle the torque of that beast until it reached speed. If that boost kicks in at the wrong moment in a turn, you'll be busy. Kinda like landing at Big Bear when 3 of the 4 wind socks are going different directions. w00t.gif Besides, I think you'll enjoy driving it and become quite possessive of it. You'd better with your investment. shades.gif

Posted by: euro911 May 29 2014, 09:06 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 29 2014, 02:58 PM) *
OUTRAGEOUS!!!!! I can get three cups of coffee downtown for that! biggrin.gif
Well, at least this way, I won't have to worry about screwing up something and voiding the warranty by doing it myself shades.gif

Posted by: Chris H. May 29 2014, 09:21 PM

Yeah $10 is cheap man. I was just kidding about the price. Prying a brand new gauge apart would suck. Did they agree to take the Speedhut part off too?

Kent I think Doug is saying he would have the car shipped out on a car hauler. Certainly could get man-handled along the way if you chose the wrong company. I'd pay extra for the cushy, enclosed carrier with that car.

Posted by: 76-914 May 30 2014, 07:42 AM

Last nite I was finishing up the wiring and tidying up in the cabin so I decided to give it the once over. Found some extraneous wiring and removed it along with some 12 ga speaker wire WTF.gif . But the jewel was this black ball of electrical tape. When I unraveled it I found my "missing" ground lug from the left front fender. It had been commissioned to jumper duty. There were 4 red + wires w/ female spades attached by some PO. av-943.gif

Posted by: 76-914 May 31 2014, 07:38 PM

Chris, I received the "American Made" Tach Adp yesterday and promptly installed it this PM. Works great and I get to keep my OEM tach. As I should; I have a few laying around, now. headbang.gif It does make the movement very smooth as you mentioned. Just had to remove the jumper to power the old tach. Wouldn't spool up w/o it but they cover that in the instructions. Once the new Speedo arrives the panel gets closed up. piratenanner.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image


Posted by: 76-914 Jun 2 2014, 08:39 AM

I seem to remember someone had cautioned me that these are prone to leaking. The washer is hard as a rock and is supposed to seal against the plastic. I tightened to what I felt was tight enough but it leaked. I'm glad that I used this bedliner material now!

Attached Image

So I pulled out the adhesives box and "Dirko'd" it's little ass in place. We'll see if it holds tonight.

Attached Image

[attachmentid=453822]

[attachmentid=453823]

[attachmentid=453824]

Posted by: CptTripps Jun 2 2014, 11:43 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 29 2014, 11:21 PM) *

Kent I think Doug is saying he would have the car shipped out on a car hauler.


Mine landed in OH in the exact same position it left CA. Same cars on there too.

I think it was about $900 from Sacramento to Cleveland.

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 7 2014, 03:15 PM

Wow! I should nominate myself for the Slacker's Thread. I found my thread on the bottom of page 3. I've been tying up loose ends here and there before I yank the drivetrain again. Now, I think I know of "everything" that needs attention once the engine is out. So that's pretty much my excuse for these past weeks. biggrin.gif

Remember this Rat's Nest?

Attached Image

I ran out of electrical tape but I completed a big portion of the clean up. Next I will need to strap it all up.

Attached Image

I also was able to get both axles installed.

Attached Image

Attached Image

I received my new toy Thursday and promptly installed it. Found out the damned thing wouldn't work w/o electricity or the GPS antennae connected. headbang.gif

Attached Image

Now it's time to pull the engine and clean up that Rat's Nest in the engine compartment. smash.gif sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif


Posted by: euro911 Jun 7 2014, 05:09 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jun 7 2014, 01:15 PM) *
I received my new toy Thursday and promptly installed it. Found out the damned thing wouldn't work w/o electricity or the GPS antennae connected. headbang.gif

Attached Image
Well, duh. The car needs to be moving too slap.gif

laugh.gif

Speedhut removed the extra 'tick marks' on mine, but left their 'ad' at the bottom dry.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 8 2014, 05:17 PM

Hey Mark bye1.gif No matter what you order it will appear counterfeit at a glance. shades.gif
Yesterday I bumped the starter while it was in gear. I almost shit myself but that is another story. Placed it in neutral, started it and it ran rough as Hell so I shut it off while I thought about it. I had just wrapped looming around most of the comp wiring and was afraid I had sheeplove.gif something up. Today I started it and revved it a bit and it smoothed mostly but still is a bit off and running very rich. WTF.gif I'll see what code is flagged or better yet which codes are not flagged. dry.gif Any ideas??
After that experience I decided I had better use the neutral switch on the tranny. It and the reverse switch are dead. headbang.gif That's alright. It's time to pull the drivetrain so I'll get a closer look when it's out. It might be a result of removing the center differential. idea.gif Forgot to add that I ran a dedicated 16ga wire from the bat to that lying assed Volt meter.

Posted by: 904svo Jun 8 2014, 06:09 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jun 8 2014, 03:17 PM) *

Hey Mark bye1.gif No matter what you order it will appear counterfeit at a glance. shades.gif
Yesterday I bumped the starter while it was in gear. I almost shit myself but that is another story. Placed it in neutral, started it and it ran rough as Hell so I shut it off while I thought about it. I had just wrapped looming around most of the comp wiring and was afraid I had sheeplove.gif something up. Today I started it and revved it a bit and it smoothed mostly but still is a bit off and running very rich. WTF.gif I'll see what code is flagged or better yet which codes are not flagged. dry.gif Any ideas??
After that experience I decided I had better use the neutral switch on the tranny. It and the reverse switch are dead. headbang.gif That's alright. It's time to pull the drivetrain so I'll get a closer look when it's out. It might be a result of removing the center differential. idea.gif Forgot to add that I ran a dedicated 16ga wire from the bat to that lying assed Volt meter.


Make sure the MAF is installed correctly, thats what mine did when i installed it
backwards. It would start but run like shit!

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 8 2014, 06:29 PM

Thx, I'll check that. I need to learn about those and there is no time like the present. biggrin.gif I haven't fabbed an air box yet and the TB is open to the trunk. There is 2 pole harness that attached to the old air box. Is this "most likely" a N/O ground switch that can be jumped. I don't have the OEM sender anymore. TIA.

Posted by: Chris H. Jun 8 2014, 06:49 PM

Also are you running it with no exhaust still? Might (or might not) be something to do with that. I don't recall if those O2 sensors affect the way it runs or if it just pops the CEL.

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 9 2014, 07:24 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Jun 8 2014, 05:49 PM) *

Also are you running it with no exhaust still? Might (or might not) be something to do with that. I don't recall if those O2 sensors affect the way it runs or if it just pops the CEL.

Yes, I am. And they might effect it, but I don't know. I thought on it some more last nite and now I wonder if one of those engine harness plugs may have made contact with the body when it jumped. I know the engines want to jump up under load and there isn't a lot of clearance between those and the body. And I didn't fetch those codes yet, either.

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 11 2014, 01:46 PM

Well I dropped the drivetrain in preparation for cleaning up the Hell Hole wiring and some hose replacement. I'm writing it up step by step so I will have a reference one day when I've forgotten damn near everything I've done. mad.gif This adds to the time it takes but what is really slowing me down is my neighbors kid who's decided to take an interest in my cars transformation. Not that I believe it's unusual for a 14yo kid to show interest in old cars. That is unless that kid's name is Brigitte. new_shocked.gif
I place a lot of value on positive mentoring but with a girl? I'm walking on egg shells here. Some of it must be showing too because yesterday after a brief injury and a futile search for the proper response she told me it was alright if I cussed and that she hears it at home. happy11.gif If her interests hold true and this continues I shall have to have a little talk with her about "proper" attire when working on automobiles. I'm sure those of you in my age group can attest to the difficulties of staying "on track" and not getting distracted. More especially if your assistant seems to bend over at every opportunity revealing her tight fitting short shorts or the fruits of the low cut blouses she choose to wear. headbang.gif It's a good thing for both of us that this wasn't happening 20 yr's ago. dry.gif In all seriousness, she comes from a large family of over achievers and I think she was "left behind" so to speak. So we will see how long her interest stay the course. I suspect at her age she shall soon find a young suitor and lose interest in old cars. Until then, we continue. Yesterday was an intro to VOM's and continuity testing. blink.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 15 2014, 07:17 PM

I had a few hours yesterday so I began to tidy up this electrical Rat's Nest that had been staring at me for the past few weeks.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

My helper went AWOL which sped the process up greatly. lol-2.gif I ran out of electrical tape so pardon the exposed wires, sloppiness and floppiness. Another 2o min's and it should be wrapped up. NPI

Attached Image


Posted by: 76-914 Jun 15 2014, 07:23 PM

Attached Image

Attached Image

Strapped up my cables

Attached Image

and strapped the steel fuel lines with Adell clamps. The $11 I spent on these lines saved me $65 on 30R9 hose which needs to be replaced in time also. biggrin.gif

Attached Image

Posted by: euro911 Jun 15 2014, 08:48 PM

Nice clean-up on the wiring mueba.gif

Posted by: CptTripps Jun 16 2014, 03:42 PM

More info on this please!

I'm looking for how in the world I'm going to work the burp tank and fill lines.


Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 16 2014, 04:43 PM

av-943.gif lol-2.gif OK...........I'll go take a few shots. I wasn't going to post it until I finalized the "plumbing" because the use of materials shall change drastically. BRB

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 16 2014, 05:54 PM

I think you can see why I wasn't going to post this. av-943.gif

Attached Image

This is another shot of the drivers side. Note the antennae hole and that the pipe is beginning to go back downhill as it passes thru the fenderwell. This is the high spot on the L side. Also, this tee and angle stop will be replaced with a .75" Alum coupling tapped w/ a 1/4" ball valve w/ a screw driver slot rather than a handle. I put the drivers side vent here because I did not want ANY water leaking onto the fuse block below and inside.

Attached Image

The R side is different and should be able to vent out thru the fill cap but I may have to loosen the pipe clamp that holds the hose down in order to raise the pipe 2" or 3" when venting. On my EZ30, the outlet hoses have enough flex that I can lift them if necessary.(That is the Tee you referenced )There's a pic of that here a few pages back. I don't know how yours exits the engine so I can't help there.

Attached Image

The high spot on the R side is where the hose goes over bulkhead. That spot is about 2" higher than the fill cap.

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 18 2014, 08:53 AM

One of the things on my punch list. My brakes lines are bled & fitted up but I'm missing something. I tried to explain this to Erc @ the G&R Event w/o results but then again a pic is worth a 1000 words. Hopefully this will be clear. During the conversion I replaced all the brake items. The PO had used some small SS flex lines which I replaced. They were of a different size and IIRC they had a small union which received the curved washer/clamp. With this set up the upper piece will flop in the hole because it isn't secured. What did I do wrong here? What do I need to order and where do I get them? It should secure like the other end in the last pic, right?

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image


Posted by: rnellums Jun 18 2014, 09:00 AM

The last pic is how it ought to be! Coming along!

Posted by: Chris H. Jun 18 2014, 10:30 AM

I think you have that hose in slightly wrong on the top connection my brother. Need to move it so you can clip that piece into the little ring like the lower one.

Attached Image

The hex bolt needs to be on the other side of the bracket like the lower one is. Make sense?

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 18 2014, 05:26 PM

Well it will pull down enough that the nut is below the bracket but if I slip that clip over it it will just pull down further. In other words I could pull it down another 6" but it would bend the tube above it. Is it possible the hole in that bracket was drilled out by the PO and is too large. What is supposed to keep it from pulling thru? WTF.gif Heeeeeelp.

Posted by: CptTripps Jun 19 2014, 05:37 AM

That doesn't look right.

I'd put a hose clamp in the bottom part and then use one of those C clips to keep it locked in place. Or, just the hose clamp.

I have SS lines without the flanges in front on mine and that's how I ended up having to do it too.

Posted by: Chris H. Jun 19 2014, 07:06 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jun 18 2014, 06:26 PM) *

Well it will pull down enough that the nut is below the bracket but if I slip that clip over it it will just pull down further. In other words I could pull it down another 6" but it would bend the tube above it. Is it possible the hole in that bracket was drilled out by the PO and is too large. What is supposed to keep it from pulling thru? WTF.gif Heeeeeelp.


So that hex bolt will go through the hole? I think the hole is too big or that hose is slightly different than stock. Did the old one fit OK? You could try a very thin washer but that clip pretty much fits the indented space exactly... How about a little JB Weld to close the hole up a bit? It's be plenty strong for that and might be easier than welding it up.

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 19 2014, 08:41 AM

I think I'll ping Erc. It's all his stuff so I'm sure it is standard and correct.

Posted by: CptTripps Jun 19 2014, 11:19 AM

Could you have the front and rear lines messed up?

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 19 2014, 04:03 PM

Shit if I know but I don't think so. Everything up front fits fine. Right now I'm prepping for the embarrassment that will come once Erc or someone shines the "dumb ass light" on me. bootyshake.gif On a brighter note, I received my fuel hose from Chris today. I'm in SoCal & Chris is on the opposite corner of the good old USA. I ordered Monday nite and received the order this morning. That's fast!

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jun 20 2014, 07:10 AM

You need the different style clamp for that hose. It is the U-shaped spring clamp that fits over the end of the hard-line not in the groove on the softline. I'm currently in Monterey at parade so I can't readily find a picture for you but there are pictures of that style of clamp here on the site. When I see you shaped it's confusing because you naturally think of the clip that you use it in the picture above. This one is a spring style clamp again, it mounts on the hard-line side and has two legs that press against that body tab.

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 20 2014, 09:54 AM

Thx Erc, I'll get with you next week to clarify. I'll buy those pieces from you if you have them.

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 23 2014, 09:43 AM

Found this at the local flaps Sat. One side is aboot (I'm practicing my Canadian) 1" longer than the other but it fits well. $9 but what the Hell.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: rhodyguy Jun 23 2014, 09:57 AM

Tell your new 'apprentice' that in the interest of safety she needs to wear garage 'appropriate' clothing. That would be a pair of coveralls.....

Posted by: my928s4 Jun 23 2014, 10:17 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jun 23 2014, 07:43 AM) *

Found this at the local flaps Sat. One side is aboot (I'm practicing my Canadian) 1" longer than the other but it fits well. $9 but what the Hell.

Attached Image



Nice find on the hose!, it was on my todo list to come up with something more elegant than what I had so nice job! Looks to be a heater bypass hose from a 95 Civic.

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 23 2014, 03:28 PM

QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Jun 23 2014, 08:57 AM) *

Tell your new 'apprentice' that in the interest of safety she needs to wear garage 'appropriate' clothing. That would be a pair of coveralls.....

Yea, we already had "that little talk". Awkward but you can't be too careful today. In my book, her Dad should have been here during those times and he wasn't. I did use the "safety approach". She dropped out for several days but showed up again yesterday. dry.gif
As far as the hose goes, thank the kid waiting on me. Most wouldn't give you the time of day but he went in the back and emerged with this after 10 min's. FWIW, I read that the flow cannot be impeded and should always be full flow on this heater loop.

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 5 2014, 12:36 PM

Damn, busier than a one armed cranberry merchant these past few weeks so little to show other than I re-visited the firewall area. I'm beginning think I'm obsessed with this area. wacko.gif The engine compartment had a lot of primer from earlier repairs but I didn't want to shoot paint at this stage so I used that spray dip. Many positives. It easily removes if I want to shoot paint later; no over spray and you can spray right to the edge; insulating qualities between metal and my electrical jungle; some sound deadening. I received the SS metric hardware so I when I re-installed the wiring on the firewall I used all SS. As you can see in one pic the screw heads are inside and set in a puddle of JB Weld. This gives me the clearance on the inside and "studs" in the engine compartment.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 10 2014, 08:44 AM

Bare with me. I've reached that point of going back to "complete" items that an organized individual would have already completed. Some of these shots you've seen before. To quote Oat Willie, "Onward thru the Fog!". A free bowl of Chile if you know who he was. biggrin.gif
Put some SS hardware to good use here

Attached Image

Attached Image

Applied lables indicating all my ground points for the next poor schmuck.

Attached Image

Needed to modify my "K n N" filter to accept the air temp sensor.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

When you've reached the torque value but need another little bit to align the cotter pin, this is it! Smooth as butter and requires no strength. biggrin.gif It's also fast as Hell to remove them this way. If your close and need break yours loose, come on by. I've got pipe wrenches up to 60". evilgrin.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Meet the "new" Hell Hole. If your doing one of these hydraulic conversions you know what I'm talking about. It's a bitch fitting that clevis, spacer and cotter pin. And if you've done it more than once you feel my pain. dry.gif I'm good with the outcome, though. The large fender washer between the floorboard and return spring, compresses the rubber washer against the floorboard for an air tight seal. Didn't plan that, just fell in my lap. rolleyes.gif The bolt access hole above it still needs a snap in cover. dry.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

I hope that I didn't jump the gun and throw this Dynamat in too early. I'm going to try it w/o any on the firewall, first. If it's noisy I'll add some but I don't have an air cooled engine w/ carbs so I should be alright.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Short of paint and removing the white plastic cups for a "return air", the rear trunk is a "wrap". The one harness laying in the right rear corner is for the 3rd or rear 02 sensor. This may get 86'd. From what I'm reading this does not effect the tune and is basically there as "reporting device" used when it is smogged; which it won't be! Also, I 86'd the 2 covers I made for the starter and clutch slave and replaced them with one large black metal box which I made . As it turned out the clearances weren't large enough (in my mind) with the 2 individual covers. This will give me a service access for future repairs, too! As it sits, the roof will still fit in the trunk! piratenanner.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Next up.......... a foolish attempt to design and construct an exhaust system. It will be aluminized steel rather than SS. Many reasons for now and I may go SS later when I learn to weld SS. beerchug.gif




Posted by: rnellums Jul 10 2014, 09:03 AM

My Lord do I envy the cleanliness of your harnesses! Mine is still hanging together by alligator clips!

Posted by: Chris H. Jul 10 2014, 09:40 AM

Looking good Kent! I was just about to ask you how the hell to use that spring you sent me... biggrin.gif Great idea! I'll put that in today. I was getting a little "snapping" sound from the grommet moving in and out of the hole but that washer will stop that from happening. Can't wait to take the thing apart again headbang.gif . The front of the center tunnel is sharp ain't it? And you can't use gloves or you'll keep dropping the clevis pin right? Oh well, it'll be great when it's all done.

HUGE updates coming on my end...although my wiring looks a lot more like Ross's than yours. I'll try to update it by tomorrow.

Posted by: ruby914 Jul 10 2014, 12:35 PM

Kent,
You clean up well. smile.gif
Love the use of the rubber boots at the fire wall. beerchug.gif

Where are you with your axles?
I have my axles and get ready to send them out to http://www.dutchmanaxles.com/services
I will send them a CV ID spline for final fitment and have Sawtooth's drawing for referance. I think it was Sawtooth that used 18"overall, so I added that to my printout of his drawing.
I recall you had a problem with length. Did you go with 18" and one was too long, one too short?
After axles, that's it, trany swap weekend. aktion035.gif

Edit: I checked the axles that I have and I will have a hard time cutting 16 3/8" down to 18" long blink.gif

Edit #2 The best I can tell this 30 spline count can most likely be found on the 02-early 04 WRX (STI only).
They may be on some older (hard to find) heavy load applications like an 04 legacy TT. They also seemed to be far more common on JDM models.

Edit #3 After getting my axles back from resplining and removing 30 mm. I found, I was sold something other than 914 axles. mad.gif 16 3/8 should have been a clue. I was thinking 18" was a typo. headbang.gif
I sent the axles that came out of the car to Dutchman. Removing 30 mm looked good to me. That came out to about 19 1/8".



Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 13 2014, 08:51 PM

Damn Mike, I missed this entirely. Now I understand your text msg. chair.gif Sorry man, but you have the info, now. My axles are on and fit. The difference is in the CV's. Two different brands and while yes, the final E-E measurements are the same the cupped end that goes adjacent to the tranny hub varies. So, I connect the R side 1st then the L side. They should have everything on file @ Dutchman. Look back in this thread and you will see where I marked the take off on a piece of blue tape on the axle. You can remove another mm to be safe. Talk to Travis @ Dutchman
My exhaust system is ordered and parts should arrive this week. 4 different warehouses are shipping to me so it may take a few days. In the meantime I decided to install the inserts for the heated seats. I made an offer to an ebay vendor a few weeks back and received a 20% discount. That was even better so I ordered a set for $40 shipped. I won't go thru a step by step of seat covering removal as it is already documented in the Classic thread forum. I will say it is easy and takes about 3 hr's. When complete, each seat has 2 connectors beneath which connect to a harness. That harness has a relay, fuse and Hi/Lo switch. I'll complete the install when the console is back in place.

Attached Image

Attached Image

I drew a quick reference line around the materials border before pulling the staples.

Attached Image

Remove the cover slowly so you don't tear the foam

Attached Image

Lay the mat in place and tape it with supplied tape then stick the plug end out the back.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

The back piece is identicle to the seat except that it has two adhesives strips to help hold it in place.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Hopefully the exhaust will be finished in 2 weeks. I took the car off "NonOp" status 2 weeks ago so I'll be able to test drive it when that day comes. monkeydance.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 16 2014, 08:54 PM

Moving right along, I think the brake question is answered so I can quit worrying over that . After pm's with Eric I have old style hoses on my '73. Added to the punch list. Remember my fiasco with the gages? They have found a home. piratenanner.gif Ross (Rnellums) has a circuit board so I sent them to him. Or so I thought. Tonite I found the Speedometer in my 914 cabinet. I have no idea what I sent him. av-943.gif lol-2.gif laugh.gif Ross, if you read this I sent you a pm. chair.gif On a brighter note, parts are arriving.

Attached Image

The 7' section of tube arrived this afternoon and the above parts arrived yesterday. I'm still awaiting the 2.5" 90's. The order is being shipped from 4 warehouse locations, GA, OH, NV and I forget the 4th one. dry.gif When the remainder arrive I'll post up the pic's of my exhaust system. And try to show you how this round 2.5" pipe

Attached Image

Gets shaped to fit the oval Suby header flange.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: rnellums Jul 16 2014, 11:33 PM

I have a feeling that this is going to be way more official than my jury roped setup! Keep it up!

Posted by: rnellums Jul 19 2014, 08:31 PM

How is the exhaust coming?

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 19 2014, 10:07 PM

Yours is inventive and might be the way to go. Who knows what will work confused24.gif
I started to layout the exhaust system and immediately found the mufflers were too long. In fact I needed to rethink the situation in order to fit any mufflers in there. I found some 14" long mufflers that I'll use but for now I did what I could.
The EZ30D has an oval exhaust outlet on the header and then transitions to round. Bob (bigkat83) had told me how this is done so this is it. I used a 2.5" 90 for this transition piece. Because of my limited space front to rear I needed to have that 90 turn at a 45 degree angle, outwards from the engine rather than straight back. So I drew this circle with marks every 45 degrees then placed the vertical part over it and traced those marks onto the tube.

Attached Image

Then placed that piece in the vise and began compressing it slowly. Using those marks you can index the 90 on a 45 degree angle before squeezing. Every so often I hit the ends with the ball end of the hammer to help elongate the tube and rounding the end.

Attached Image

After a few minutes it looked like this

Attached Image

Then I beveled and polished the bottom edge of the flange

Attached Image

Then tap the flange over the tube slowly working it down with the hammer.

Attached Image

Until it looked like this

Attached Image

Without the flange

Attached Image

Attached Image

A test fit up

Attached Image

Horizontal piece of 2.5" 90 is cut to length and reduced to 2" w/ a 45 degree turn

Attached Image

Beginning to line up

Attached Image

Some different views. Oddly enough I should not need any tube. Just these fittings and a muffler. rolleyes.gif I tacked up the first few pieces but left the last 2 45 degree bends until the muffler is fitted. I think I should gas weld it so the welds aren't as brittle. welder.gif FWIW, it's 16ga Aluminized Steel, not SS. And the tube at the end will be replaced with a muffler. The section of tube is handy for lining up your fittings, though.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jul 19 2014, 10:15 PM

Why reduce the exhaust? The turbo will be happier with a bigger exhaust.

I'm crazy and ran a full 4" exhaust... happy11.gif

Posted by: rnellums Jul 19 2014, 11:54 PM

That looks awesome. and it looks like you will have plenty of ground clearance!

Posted by: mgp4591 Jul 20 2014, 05:10 AM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 19 2014, 10:15 PM) *

Why reduce the exhaust? The turbo will be happier with a bigger exhaust.

I'm crazy and ran a full 4" exhaust... happy11.gif

Has he got a turbo on the EZ30? confused24.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 20 2014, 08:19 AM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 19 2014, 09:15 PM) *

Why reduce the exhaust? The turbo will be happier with a bigger exhaust.

I'm crazy and ran a full 4" exhaust... happy11.gif

No turbo (yet) Mike. It would be easier to route the tube if it were Turbo'd. I have a lot of room in front of the engine. In it's factory configuration it ran a 2.5", "2 into 1" or single exhaust system. Outhouse engineering here but I'm hoping I get similar results doing it this way.

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 27 2014, 06:44 PM

I received the missing reducer and 02 bungs so I was able to finish the exhaust system today. I welded in the bungs, screwed in the 02 sensors and began assm.

Attached Image

My mufflers and hangers

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

And with the bumper installed. I'll add some tips later but this is it for the exhaust now.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: mgp4591 Jul 27 2014, 08:53 PM

Nice work! Howzzit sound with the shorty glasspacks on there? popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: rnellums Jul 27 2014, 08:54 PM

Those pipes look amazing! How did you get them placed so well?

Posted by: scotty b Jul 27 2014, 09:02 PM

poke.gif We need audio smile.gif

Posted by: Chris H. Jul 28 2014, 08:00 AM

Looks great! Nice work! I bet you're tired of welding now, but at least it's done. Let's hear it!

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 28 2014, 08:58 AM

I'll post an audio later this week when I start it. My 63 YO bootyshake.gif was too tired to put gas in it when I finished yesterday. The combination of heat and humidity put me in my place. mad.gif dry.gif My punch list is down to 24 items. Mostly, small items conjured up to satisfy my OCD. I'm sure that count will change after I drive it. shades.gif
To answer your question Ross; time and luck. I spent several hours with this because "it shows". Once I was satisfied with the left bank I duplicated the measurements for the right bank.
It's amazing to me that the 3 of us (Ross, Chris and yours truely) started about the same time and finish about the same time. blink.gif I would say the 4 of us but one of us took the "Divorce Detour". sad.gif The 3 Subateer's. biggrin.gif

Posted by: rnellums Jul 28 2014, 08:59 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jul 28 2014, 08:58 AM) *

It's amazing to me that the 3 of us (Ross, Chris and yours truely) started about the same time and finish about the same time. blink.gif I would say the 4 of us but one of us took the "Divorce Detour". sad.gif The 3 Subateer's. biggrin.gif


Mine's driveable, but i'm sure its going to take a lot more optimization as we go than yours or Chris'!

Posted by: eric9144 Jul 28 2014, 10:42 PM

popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 1 2014, 10:43 PM

And here is what it sounds like. My comp skills are lacking so I'll just post the links. A real throttle cable should arrive next week then it's drive time and start shaking out the bugs. I'm not finished but getting closer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y34k42Ck_20&feature=youtu.be

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zruK06mQbIA&feature=youtu.be

Posted by: mgp4591 Aug 1 2014, 10:57 PM

Sounds great! smilie_pokal.gif Are the fans in front really that ratty sounding or is it just the audio quality? Sounds like they're on their last legs!

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 2 2014, 08:50 AM

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Aug 1 2014, 09:57 PM) *

Sounds great! smilie_pokal.gif Are the fans in front really that ratty sounding or is it just the audio quality? Sounds like they're on their last legs!

LOL. No they aren't. They're new and quite. It's just echo audio in that part of the garage. I love that big assed alternator on that thing. It can handle any load. happy11.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 2 2014, 02:49 PM

Well, one week short of 19 months and it finally hit the road again. It was just a quick trip with a jury rigged accelerator cable. Funny thing, I started it and the sky literally opened up. No complaints, we're in a drought! So 1 hour later I took it around the hood for a quickie! I'm not getting much pedal travel so I don't know what WFO feels like but sweeeeeeeeeeeet sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet, I've got a six evilgrin.gif . I know what Ross meant by 1st gear happens quick. I need to be pay attention to power management in the coming weeks and not let this thing get too far ahead of me. Not used to the power yet but I'm pretty sure I'll be addicted in another day or two. biggrin.gif The P/W ratio is so absurd you can take off in 2nd or 3rd. I was going up a hill in the hood 20mpn in 4th; no problem. GPS speedo is kick ass. Next several weeks will be chasing gremlins and de-bugging but as it is, I'm happier than a 2 petered Billy Goat.

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 2 2014, 04:20 PM

That's amazing. So you filled the radiator? How are the temps? I spent all day in the garage...still there in fact. Wiring. dry.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 3 2014, 09:32 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Aug 2 2014, 03:20 PM) *

That's amazing. So you filled the radiator? How are the temps? I spent all day in the garage...still there in fact. Wiring. dry.gif

Oh yeah, filled the radiator but limited short runs until I get the temp gage working. It's circulating the water but I run the fans manually until I can "see" the temps. Once I see the temps I'll connect the ECU fan control wires. I got some input from pray.gif Bob (BIGKAT83) re: the burp tank/reservoir theory, location/placement and an air/water bleed tap on the engine itself. Don't know where I'd be w/o the Godfathers help. biggrin.gif I thought I'd felt some low cycle oscillation at 5mph which could have been old tires sitting in one spot for over a year or I may have to reinforce the the cross bar on my engine cradle. Chris and I are in league with this clutch development and may have another few weeks before we are satisfied with the final product. All I will say at this point is that it works but it is stiff. Very glad that I added the brace to these set ups at this point! More on this as it evolves. Without seats and only a pillow for support I look like an 11 year old driving around the hood. av-943.gif I think I shall install the drivers seat today and test out the "Bun Warmer" while it's installed. Also, I should get a shift knob w/ the correct shift pattern installed soon as I almost took out my garage wall once, already. I don't think testing will be far enough along to allow a trip to RRC this year. If it is ready by then it would be a last minute decision. I think I'll set my sites on the G&R Fall Event for this year instead! smile.gif

Posted by: 914-300Hemi Aug 3 2014, 10:22 AM

Congrats on finishing the conversion. Can't wait to see it.
It sounds great.

Posted by: rnellums Aug 3 2014, 12:37 PM

Awesome news man!I'm still looking at gauges in the passenger foot well dry.gif

Posted by: computers4kids Aug 3 2014, 07:58 PM

Dang...that is one quiet motor!



Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: rhodyguy Aug 4 2014, 07:36 AM

WOW!!! beautiful exhaust note. i looking forward to the 'on the roll' video @ 6k. your neighbors will be giving you the squinty eyed look real soon. great work!!!! the 1.7 badging is perfect. as you leave the young guys that want to challenge you in the dust they'll be all WTF.gif . ha. again , GREAT WORK!!!

Posted by: euro911 Aug 4 2014, 11:29 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 1 2014, 09:43 PM) *
And here is what it sounds like. My comp skills are lacking so I'll just post the links. A real throttle cable should arrive next week then it's drive time and start shaking out the bugs. I'm not finished but getting closer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y34k42Ck_20&feature=youtu.be

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zruK06mQbIA&feature=youtu.be
Nice Kent thumb3d.gif

I heard you grunt getting out of the car ... I can relate laugh.gif

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Aug 4 2014, 11:53 AM

Kent.... here is how I did my mufflers. At cruise this is as quiet as my wifes Camry.
When I'm at a stoplight I have to look at the tach to make sure its still running.
From the rear
Attached Image
Under
Attached Image

Posted by: CptTripps Aug 4 2014, 12:17 PM

I'm super excited for you. Very glad one of "us" is on the road.

I hope to be the next, but I'm OK to be the last as well. ;-)

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 4 2014, 10:17 PM

QUOTE(914-300Hemi @ Aug 3 2014, 09:22 AM) *

Congrats on finishing the conversion. Can't wait to see it.
It sounds great.

Thx Ravi, I've got to fine tune the clutch then it's Dawn Patrol time again. driving.gif

QUOTE(rnellums @ Aug 3 2014, 11:37 AM) *

Awesome news man!I'm still looking at gauges in the passenger foot well dry.gif

Quit putting yours down. Your an engineer and I'm sure you will end up shaming my project. beerchug.gif

QUOTE(computers4kids @ Aug 3 2014, 06:58 PM) *

Dang...that is one quiet motor!

Uh Thx, I guess. Those graph's are out of my reach. wacko.gif

QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Aug 4 2014, 06:36 AM) *

WOW!!! beautiful exhaust note. i looking forward to the 'on the roll' video @ 6k. your neighbors will be giving you the squinty eyed look real soon. great work!!!! the 1.7 badging is perfect. as you leave the young guys that want to challenge you in the dust they'll be all WTF.gif . ha. again , GREAT WORK!!!

Thx Kev, I'm used to that look. I got that when I built a plane in my garage. BTW, that 1.7 badge is a Lure. calvin.gif

QUOTE(euro911 @ Aug 4 2014, 10:29 AM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 1 2014, 09:43 PM) *
And here is what it sounds like. My comp skills are lacking so I'll just post the links. A real throttle cable should arrive next week then it's drive time and start shaking out the bugs. I'm not finished but getting closer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y34k42Ck_20&feature=youtu.be

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zruK06mQbIA&feature=youtu.be
Nice Kent thumb3d.gif

I heard you grunt getting out of the car ... I can relate laugh.gif

Uh, I'm pretty sure that was a fart, Mark.

QUOTE(BIGKAT_83 @ Aug 4 2014, 10:53 AM) *

Kent.... here is how I did my mufflers. At cruise this is as quiet as my wifes Camry.
When I'm at a stoplight I have to look at the tach to make sure its still running.
From the rear
Attached Image
Under
Attached Image

Thx Bob, I understand now

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Aug 4 2014, 11:17 AM) *

I'm super excited for you. Very glad one of "us" is on the road.

I hope to be the next, but I'm OK to be the last as well. ;-)

It's worth the wait, Doug. poke.gif When you get yours running you'll have to park down the street so as not to embarrass the rest of us. biggrin.gif

Posted by: eric9144 Aug 5 2014, 05:13 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 4 2014, 09:17 PM) *

I've got to fine tune the clutch then it's Dawn Patrol time again. driving.gif


beerchug.gif Good News!

I have some new roads to show you...PM me when you're up for a shakeout run piratenanner.gif

Posted by: partwerks Aug 13 2014, 09:13 PM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Jan 15 2014, 10:31 AM) *

There are a few dimensions I'm missing, but I think I have it overall. Would you be kind enough to print this out and see if it matches the real piece you have?

I don't have dimensions for:

- Small Hole Diameters
- Distancees for A, B, C, D and E

This should be 210mm from side to side when you print it out.


It appears that,
D=52
B=probably 60
A=57
C=50
E=67, but doesn't appear to add up, looks too close to the edge for that, if 91 MM is C to C, and 210 MM is the OAL?

Small diameter holes would probably be whatever the bolt sizes are that hold the MC.

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 14 2014, 08:44 AM

QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 13 2014, 08:13 PM) *

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Jan 15 2014, 10:31 AM) *

There are a few dimensions I'm missing, but I think I have it overall. Would you be kind enough to print this out and see if it matches the real piece you have?

I don't have dimensions for:

- Small Hole Diameters
- Distancees for A, B, C, D and E

This should be 210mm from side to side when you print it out.


It appears that,
D=52
B=probably 60
A=57
C=50
E=67, but doesn't appear to add up, looks too close to the edge for that, if 91 MM is C to C, and 210 MM is the OAL?

Small diameter holes would probably be whatever the bolt sizes are that hold the MC.

Undergoing modifications to this area and it's related appurtenances as we speak. Updates are coming and will be posted here in the next week or so. Chris and I are currently working on an improved version. BRB welder.gif headbang.gif smash.gif headbang.gif welder.gif idea.gif smash.gif smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 14 2014, 10:14 PM

If you received a Master Cylinder plate from me I have important update information. First, the 3/4" Wilwood will work but it is very hard to push. Also, Chris and I had "sealing" problems with their reservoirs. I had to pull my tank to clean beneath it after mine leaked. barf.gif Anyway at Chris' suggestion, and I'm pretty sure he stole it from BIGCAT83 dry.gif , we tried a 5/8" Honda MC. It requires some quick modifications to the plate which I'll post here with detailed instructions, in the next week. If any of you feel uncomfortable with DIY then send it to me and I'll do it for you.
Another very positive experience with one of our vendors, Terry Cable. The first accelerator cable sent was bass akwards of what I ordered. When I called they said no problem and 4 days later, here it is. They are a very personable, customer oriented business. It arrived today and I put that puppy on tonite so that I could try the new clutch setup. That and to finally "put my foot into it"! calvin.gif The clutch motion requires no effort and is smoother than greased owl shit. It shifted so nicely I took it for a quick spin driving.gif on a country road behind us. I now have 6 whole miles on it; 4 tonite. A big positive is that I'm not experiencing any cooling problems at all biggrin.gif , yet dry.gif . I need to install a burp tank as I lose about 4oz's after it shuts down but I just top off before starting it. That short run tonite made every sheeplove.gif hour of the project worth it. smilie_pokal.gif Even the wiring. blink.gif Damn that is some fun. You want to kinda aim that thing before you goose it. yikes.gif I'm not complete by any means but I think I'm out of the forest. dance.gif Time to install the interior and buy those OEM side mirrors that I'd promised myself if it ran. I wonder if RRC would be pushing it. lol-2.gif

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 15 2014, 06:45 AM

Great update! You really worked hard on that clutch thing. Definitely stole the idea...many people (including BIGKAT/Bob) mentioned the Honda MC, some even IN MY BUILD THREAD. Don't know why I didn't read it more closely. BTW it's worth mentioning that the OEM for Honda is Nissin. That's the best one, but there are also many aftermarket ones that are half that price. The one I read NOT to buy on a couple of Civic sites is the Omni brand. Shorter throw, harder to push, leaks after a few years.


Posted by: rnellums Aug 15 2014, 07:00 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 14 2014, 10:14 PM) *

That and to finally "put my foot into it"! calvin.gif The clutch motion requires no effort and is smoother than greased owl shit. It shifted so nicely I took it for a quick spin driving.gif on a country road behind us. I now have 6 whole miles on it; 4 tonite. A big positive is that I'm not experiencing any cooling problems at all biggrin.gif , yet dry.gif . I need to install a burp tank as I lose about 4oz's after it shuts down but I just top off before starting it. That short run tonite made every sheeplove.gif hour of the project worth it. smilie_pokal.gif Even the wiring. blink.gif Damn that is some fun. You want to kinda aim that thing before you goose it. yikes.gif I'm not complete by any means but I think I'm out of the forest. dance.gif Time to install the interior and buy those OEM side mirrors that I'd promised myself if it ran. I wonder if RRC would be pushing it. lol-2.gif

So pumped that yours is ready to go! Start putting some miles on it to build confidence and join me at RRC! I just crested 200 miles on mine this week and its still putting a smile on my face every time I drive!

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 15 2014, 08:52 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Aug 15 2014, 05:45 AM) *

Great update! You really worked hard on that clutch thing. Definitely stole the idea...many people (including BIGKAT/Bob) mentioned the Honda MC, some even IN MY BUILD THREAD. Don't know why I didn't read it more closely. BTW it's worth mentioning that the OEM for Honda is Nissin. That's the best one, but there are also many aftermarket ones that are half that price. The one I read NOT to buy on a couple of Civic sites is the Omni brand. Shorter throw, harder to push, leaks after a few years.

My hard work was due in fact to my own ignorance. dry.gif The final product is the result of many others before me. My specialty is stealing ideas and painting them a different colour. happy11.gif Thanks for your hours of researching parts availability and prices. beerchug.gif

QUOTE(rnellums @ Aug 15 2014, 06:00 AM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 14 2014, 10:14 PM) *

That and to finally "put my foot into it"! calvin.gif The clutch motion requires no effort and is smoother than greased owl shit. It shifted so nicely I took it for a quick spin driving.gif on a country road behind us. I now have 6 whole miles on it; 4 tonite. A big positive is that I'm not experiencing any cooling problems at all biggrin.gif , yet dry.gif . I need to install a burp tank as I lose about 4oz's after it shuts down but I just top off before starting it. That short run tonite made every sheeplove.gif hour of the project worth it. smilie_pokal.gif Even the wiring. blink.gif Damn that is some fun. You want to kinda aim that thing before you goose it. yikes.gif I'm not complete by any means but I think I'm out of the forest. dance.gif Time to install the interior and buy those OEM side mirrors that I'd promised myself if it ran. I wonder if RRC would be pushing it. lol-2.gif

So pumped that yours is ready to go! Start putting some miles on it to build confidence and join me at RRC! I just crested 200 miles on mine this week and its still putting a smile on my face every time I drive!

We'll see. I certainly have no problem camping but I have my daughters wedding in Oct so my window of opportunity is growing smaller every day.

Posted by: JStroud Aug 15 2014, 09:47 AM

Congrats Kent! beer.gif

Nothing better than turning the key after a long build, car sounds awesome, it's got to be a blast finally driving it. driving.gif

You guys have done so much fabrication to simplify the suby conversion future projects will get easier as time goes, still considering it for the black car.....but lately I keep thinking LS1, we'll see. Nice work, bring it to RRC...love to see it.

Great job,
Jeff

Posted by: CptTripps Aug 15 2014, 01:13 PM

Again....Congrats man. I'm super happy for you.

I think I'm going to need to bring in reinforcements to get me across the finish line with mine. I've come too far, and I'm sick of looking at a 3/4 done project.

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 15 2014, 03:58 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 15 2014, 09:52 AM) *


My specialty is stealing ideas and painting them a different colour. happy11.gif Thanks for your hours of researching parts availability and prices. beerchug.gif



The clutch thing you engineered. That was the hard part. I was the one who was "borrowing" ideas...wait...did you steal my idea stealing idea confused24.gif ? lol-2.gif LOL! I think that's the lesson we learned...if someone else got it to work well, DO THAT. "Cause they probably already tried the alternatives.

We'll all be driving soon!

Doug, focus on something that you can finish, even if it's small. You can do it!

Posted by: partwerks Aug 15 2014, 09:25 PM

[quote name='76-914' date='Aug 14 2014, 08:14 PM' post='2074062']
If you received a Master Cylinder plate from me I have important update information. First, the 3/4" Wilwood will work but it is very hard to push. Also, Chris and I had "sealing" problems with their reservoirs. I had to pull my tank to clean beneath it after mine leaked. barf.gif Anyway at Chris' suggestion, and I'm pretty sure he stole it from BIGCAT83 dry.gif , we tried a 5/8" Honda MC. It requires some quick modifications to the plate which I'll post here with detailed instructions.

Is this reservoir leaking an isolated case, or are there others that are experiencing the same problem, along with hard pushing of it?

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 15 2014, 10:31 PM

[quote name='partwerks' date='Aug 15 2014, 08:25 PM' post='2074380']
[quote name='76-914' date='Aug 14 2014, 08:14 PM' post='2074062']
If you received a Master Cylinder plate from me I have important update information. First, the 3/4" Wilwood will work but it is very hard to push. Also, Chris and I had "sealing" problems with their reservoirs. I had to pull my tank to clean beneath it after mine leaked. barf.gif Anyway at Chris' suggestion, and I'm pretty sure he stole it from BIGCAT83 dry.gif , we tried a 5/8" Honda MC. It requires some quick modifications to the plate which I'll post here with detailed instructions.

Is this reservoir leaking an isolated case, or are there others that are experiencing the same problem, along with hard pushing of it?
[/quote]
Yep, I'm sure others will chime in at some point. After I thought about it I realized it's just common sense. If both ends are = in diameter then it is the same thing as you sitting behind the trans pushing the clutch fork in with your leg. No mechanical advantage. Remember the old 3 sp English bikes that came with a tire pump clipped to the cross bar and how skinny it was. Those tires took a lot of pressure and the fat pumps we used for our Western Flyers wouldn't do it. Chris said the Honda MC on ebay was only $29 used. I have one and it works great. Another plus is you won't have to cut the belly pan to accept it like the Wilwood required. I'll doc it all here is a few days. I'm waiting on some more parts to do Chris' so I'll shoot pic's then.

Posted by: partwerks Aug 15 2014, 10:40 PM

[quote name='76-914' date='Aug 15 2014, 08:31 PM' post='2074391']
[quote name='partwerks' date='Aug 15 2014, 08:25 PM' post='2074380']
[quote name='76-914' date='Aug 14 2014, 08:14 PM' post='2074062']
If you received a Master Cylinder plate from me I have important update information. First, the 3/4" Wilwood will work but it is very hard to push. Also, Chris and I had "sealing" problems with their reservoirs. I had to pull my tank to clean beneath it after mine leaked. barf.gif Anyway at Chris' suggestion, and I'm pretty sure he stole it from BIGCAT83 dry.gif , we tried a 5/8" Honda MC. It requires some quick modifications to the plate which I'll post here with detailed instructions.

Is this reservoir leaking an isolated case, or are there others that are experiencing the same problem, along with hard pushing of it?
[/quote]
Yep, I'm sure others will chime in at some point. After I thought about it I realized it's just common sense. If both ends are = in diameter then it is the same thing as you sitting behind the trans pushing the clutch fork in with your leg. No mechanical advantage. Remember the old 3 sp English bikes that came with a tire pump clipped to the cross bar and how skinny it was. Those tires took a lot of pressure and the fat pumps we used for our Western Flyers wouldn't do it. Chris said the Honda MC on ebay was only $29 used. I have one and it works great. Another plus is you won't have to cut the belly pan to accept it like the Wilwood required. I'll doc it all here is a few days. I'm waiting on some more parts to do Chris' so I'll shoot pic's then.
[/quote]
Do you have a link handy with the picture of the MC you are referring to?

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Aug 16 2014, 03:14 AM

[/quote]
Do you have a link handy with the picture of the MC you are referring to?
[/quote]
I had posted it on page 11 of this thread.

Posted by: partwerks Aug 16 2014, 07:28 AM

[quote name='BIGKAT_83' date='Aug 16 2014, 01:14 AM' post='2074414']
[/quote]
Do you have a link handy with the picture of the MC you are referring to?
[/quote]
I had posted it on page 11 of this thread.
[/quote]
Hard to see in the pic, being painted black, but is this even remotely close?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Brake-Master-Cylinder-Coupe-Sedan-Acura-Integra-89-88-87-86-Accord-Car-Auto-/350741343828?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AHonda&hash=item51a9d02e54&vxp=mtr

What year of Honda?

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Aug 16 2014, 07:57 AM

No, not even close.....Thats a brake master cylinder for power brakes.
The clutch master cylinder I posted is the aluminum one on the left.
There is a shop in Kansas City doing a LS2/Boxster transaxle conversion now. This guy does first class work. I would suggest that you take your car to him.
smash.gif
If your interested I can PM you his contact info.

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 16 2014, 08:24 AM

I'm in manufacturing. You'll have to check with Chris in supply. lol-2.gif av-943.gif I honestly don't know but we'll get that info to you soon. Here is a shot of one installed but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Attached Image

Posted by: ruby914 Aug 16 2014, 08:28 AM

[quote name='76-914' date='Aug 15 2014, 09:31 PM' post='2074391']
[quote name='partwerks' date='Aug 15 2014, 08:25 PM' post='2074380']
[quote name='76-914' date='Aug 14 2014, 08:14 PM' post='2074062']
If you received a Master Cylinder plate from me I have important update information. First, the 3/4" Wilwood will work but it is very hard to push. Also, Chris and I had "sealing" problems with their reservoirs. I had to pull my tank to clean beneath it after mine leaked. barf.gif Anyway at Chris' suggestion, and I'm pretty sure he stole it from BIGCAT83 dry.gif , we tried a 5/8" Honda MC. It requires some quick modifications to the plate which I'll post here with detailed instructions.

Is this reservoir leaking an isolated case, or are there others that are experiencing the same problem, along with hard pushing of it?
[/quote]
Yep, I'm sure others will chime in at some point. After I thought about it I realized it's just common sense. If both ends are = in diameter then it is the same thing as you sitting behind the trans pushing the clutch fork in with your leg. No mechanical advantage. Remember the old 3 sp English bikes that came with a tire pump clipped to the cross bar and how skinny it was. Those tires took a lot of pressure and the fat pumps we used for our Western Flyers wouldn't do it. Chris said the Honda MC on ebay was only $29 used. I have one and it works great. Another plus is you won't have to cut the belly pan to accept it like the Wilwood required. I'll doc it all here is a few days. I'm waiting on some more parts to do Chris' so I'll shoot pic's then.
[/quote]
If the Honda MC is 5/8, I get the feeling, I will not be happy with the .700 bore Tilton that I have. Like everything else, I started liking the Honda MC more and more after I payed good money for the Tiltion.

Posted by: partwerks Aug 16 2014, 02:23 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 16 2014, 06:24 AM) *

I'm in manufacturing. You'll have to check with Chris in supply. lol-2.gif av-943.gif I honestly don't know but we'll get that info to you soon. Here is a shot of one installed but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Attached Image


I see that the corner needs to be trimmed for clearance to the upper left of the clutch MC.

I'm guessing that you are using the stock clutch pedal to operate the hydraulic clutch, and that it bolts on through the firewall? If so, I would think I would use between 1/8", and 3/16" material?

Posted by: partwerks Aug 16 2014, 02:43 PM

Planning on having my Nieces's hubby do the work, since he was the top tech at the chevy garage, till Delmar was too cheap to give him a raise, and opened up his own shop then. Reasonable labor, and some freebies......

I was just trying to do some of the leg work for him, and make some of the stuff that I can. Almost done with the water logs. Can do this MC bracket, but not sure on the motor mount, w/o any measurements. Can't tell just by looking at a picture.

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 16 2014, 02:56 PM

It looks like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/96-00-HONDA-CIVIC-DEL-SOL-JDM-NISSIN-JAPAN-CLUTCH-MASTER-CYLINDER-46920-SR3-A01-/260992548728?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc45e3f78&vxp=mtr

1993ish to 2000 Civic. The OEM is Nissin/Adler (NOT Nissan!), but you can get a bunch of aftermarket ones for ~$25 or so, or a used one for about $25. Just avoid the Omni aftermarket brand.

There are a few other bits you need. I'll post the full list once I get mine installed.

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 16 2014, 07:08 PM

QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 16 2014, 01:23 PM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 16 2014, 06:24 AM) *

I'm in manufacturing. You'll have to check with Chris in supply. lol-2.gif av-943.gif I honestly don't know but we'll get that info to you soon. Here is a shot of one installed but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Attached Image


I see that the corner needs to be trimmed for clearance to the upper left of the clutch MC.

I'm guessing that you are using the stock clutch pedal to operate the hydraulic clutch, and that it bolts on through the firewall? If so, I would think I would use between 1/8", and 3/16" material?

Yes on all. Replace the pedal bolts with longer ones also.

QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 16 2014, 01:43 PM) *

Planning on having my Nieces's hubby do the work, since he was the top tech at the chevy garage, till Delmar was too cheap to give him a raise, and opened up his own shop then. Reasonable labor, and some freebies......

I was just trying to do some of the leg work for him, and make some of the stuff that I can. Almost done with the water logs. Can do this MC bracket, but not sure on the motor mount, w/o any measurements. Can't tell just by looking at a picture.

Well actually you can. You need to go from the front motor mount bolt holes to the rear transmission support bolts. Your bends will be what you make them. I used 4130 Chromoly and bent mine as far as my cheap ass bender would allow, about 37'. It's somewhere in this thread.

Thx for posting that Chris.

Posted by: partwerks Aug 16 2014, 08:00 PM

At Rockauto, I can get a Dorman, MC, and Slave for about $29.00. I noticed the Master is 5/8" bore, and the slave is 3/4" bore. Is that typically how it should be?

How do I know if this slave will bolt up to a Boxster trans, or are they all pretty much the same?

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=969127&cc=3299353

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=966261&cc=3299353

Posted by: partwerks Aug 16 2014, 08:21 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 16 2014, 05:08 PM) *

QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 16 2014, 01:23 PM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 16 2014, 06:24 AM) *

I'm in manufacturing. You'll have to check with Chris in supply. lol-2.gif av-943.gif I honestly don't know but we'll get that info to you soon. Here is a shot of one installed but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Attached Image


I see that the corner needs to be trimmed for clearance to the upper left of the clutch MC.

I'm guessing that you are using the stock clutch pedal to operate the hydraulic clutch, and that it bolts on through the firewall? If so, I would think I would use between 1/8", and 3/16" material?

Yes on all. Replace the pedal bolts with longer ones also.

QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 16 2014, 01:43 PM) *

Planning on having my Nieces's hubby do the work, since he was the top tech at the chevy garage, till Delmar was too cheap to give him a raise, and opened up his own shop then. Reasonable labor, and some freebies......

I was just trying to do some of the leg work for him, and make some of the stuff that I can. Almost done with the water logs. Can do this MC bracket, but not sure on the motor mount, w/o any measurements. Can't tell just by looking at a picture.

Well actually you can. You need to go from the front motor mount bolt holes to the rear transmission support bolts. Your bends will be what you make them. I used 4130 Chromoly and bent mine as far as my cheap as bender would allow, about 37'. It's somewhere in this thread.

Thx for posting that Chris.


Longer bolts to go through the plate that positions the two cylinders together?

It appears that I may be able to utilize part/most, of the old Subie cradle in addition to the motor mount for the LS to help stiffen things up a bit. I do have the long kit installed in the cab.

On the old 3.6 conversion, I had the frame rails that plug welded in on the longs, and tied into the rear trailing arms.

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 16 2014, 09:57 PM

QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 16 2014, 09:00 PM) *

At Rockauto, I can get a Dorman, MC, and Slave for about $29.00. I noticed the Master is 5/8" bore, and the slave is 3/4" bore. Is that typically how it should be?

How do I know if this slave will bolt up to a Boxster trans, or are they all pretty much the same?

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=969127&cc=3299353

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=966261&cc=3299353


You'll need to use the slave cylinder from the Boxster trans. It looks totally different. We are using Subaru slave cylinders with the Honda master and it works fine (with Subie transes obviously). Not sure what the "throw" requirements are for the Boxster trans but I think Bob is installing a Boxster 6 speed in his LS1 car. Maybe he can tell you what MC he is using. That would be the only thing to be sure of before you commit to the Honda MC. Just need to be sure you can get clutch fully depressed.

Posted by: ruby914 Aug 16 2014, 10:15 PM

QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 16 2014, 07:00 PM) *

At Rockauto, I can get a Dorman, MC, and Slave for about $29.00. I noticed the Master is 5/8" bore, and the slave is 3/4" bore. Is that typically how it should be?

How do I know if this slave will bolt up to a Boxster trans, or are they all pretty much the same?

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=969127&cc=3299353

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=966261&cc=3299353


The suby slave I have, has a 13/16 (.812) stamped on it. I recall seeing something like 11/16 for the suby MC. Here it is: http://www.licmotorsports.com/sites/default/files/tilton%2056-372.pdf see: page 2
That is why I chose the .700 Tilton over the 3/4, I like easy.
Now, you guys have me thinking, it needs more than .050 and I will have a hard clutch?

Kent, If I can get my axles / CVs worked out and tranies swapped we could hook up and do some suby swapping.

Posted by: Mike Bellis Aug 16 2014, 10:27 PM

I'm running a 5/8" master on my Boxster tranny. The slave for the Boxster and the VW Passat (1997-2001) is the same. The Passat unit is a fraction of the price. The Passat unit will fit both Boxster/Cayman 5 & 6 speed trannies up to 2008 for sure. Not sure about newer.

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 17 2014, 08:00 AM

Oh crud that's right Mike, how could I forget you have a Boxster trans? So Mike is running a 5/8 master, same as the Honda, and a stock VW/Audi/Porsche slave.

Mike Birdwell - The Subie clutch master is 5/8 in the cases that I saw in my limited research of 200-2006 transmissions. For a while we were getting direction that the master and slave cylinders had to match but they do not for Subaru. The 11/16 was probably out there because Kent's and my slave cylinders are 11/16. Turns out that has no bearing. Seems like 5/8 is the ticket to smooth, easy to push as long as you have the "throw"to fully engage the clutch.


Posted by: 76-914 Aug 17 2014, 08:25 AM

[/quote]

Longer bolts to go through the plate that positions the two cylinders together?

There are two bolts that are spot welded to the pedal assm that the brake MC bolts to. R&R those two w/ bolts 8-10mm longer. Hint: Use an old MC to reposition the new bolts.


Kent, If I can get my axles / CVs worked out and tranies swapped we could hook up and do some suby swapping.
[/quote]
I was hoping we could at least get our own National Holiday after that ordeal. lol-2.gif

Posted by: partwerks Aug 17 2014, 08:46 AM

Will the clutch slave cylinder (Dorman) from Rockauto work, or is the bolt pattern the wrong way to work on the Boxster trans? Ooops, probably not.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=966261&cc=3299353

I guess the plan is to get a Honda Civic CMC, and VW CSC, since the VW CSC is alreay being used, it should have enough throw?

To make the large hole for the new resident, the CMC, are they using a hole saw from the cab side or underneath the car to cut it out?
Once I get the correct measurements for the plate, then I can go forward on that part.

If a person gets the Honda CMC, where do they acquire the reservoir from, or can that be gotten at a local auto parts store?

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 17 2014, 09:43 AM

The "throw" is related to the MC. The smaller the MC the longer the throw to move the same volume of fluid, so the issue is whether or not the 914 stock clutch pedal has enough travel to push the 5/8 master far enough to fully engage the clutch. Sounds like others who know more than me about your setup are using 5/8 MC so theoretically you should be good.

You really have to use a VW/Audi/Porsche (same part it sounds like) on your trans. Using aftermarket or adapting one would be a huge pain.

You can use an aftermarket reservoir. I will get the stock hose dimension today. I bought a used Honda one on e-bay. $18.

Hi Kent bye1.gif I got all my coolant stuff corrected per Bob's instructions. Turning the key soon! No worries, still have brakes, shifter, etc to do.

Posted by: partwerks Aug 17 2014, 09:52 AM

Given those years, a bit of overlap, it is the 2nd, or most expensive style one that I need for the trans, correct?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Clutch-Slave-Cylinder-VW-Volkswagen-Golf-Jetta-Passat-99-98-97-96-95-94-1999-/370617339583?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AVolkswagen|Model%3APassat&hash=item564a83cebf&vxp=mtr


http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Clutch-Slave-Cylinder-Audi-A4-2004-2003-2002-2001-2000-99-98-97-Quattro-1999-/230953987896?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AVolkswagen|Model%3APassat&hash=item35c5ee2f38&vxp=mtr

This one?

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 17 2014, 05:34 PM

I threw in the rear carpet and liner after trimming to fit around some items. It will look much better with new carpet but that will come later. I will need all new rubber seals, carpet, paint, tires n wheels to get up to speed but this is good for now.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

The best part was this; the top fits in it's OG location. piratenanner.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 17 2014, 09:35 PM

Might as well start posting some pic's on modifying the plate. Keep the bolts/nuts you used to mount the Wilwood MC to the plate. They are the same length/diameter. I cut 2 small tabs and beveled the edges before welding. You will need to grind it flat afterwards so the bevel is structural. Clamps them in place then move around with your spot welds, remove the clamps and weld. Then grind it smooth as shown.
**** More when the MC arrives.......

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

This is a good time to point out what I believe is a poor design with the Wilwood reservoir. The inner piece which holds the "single o-ring" isn't strong enough to withstand the forces placed upon it by the clamp. As it gives the piece takes on a tapered shape pushing the reservoir up and away from the base. Notice the 6mm gap? As it pushes up, the o-ring ends up below the hose clamp as you can see in the 2nd pic below.

Attached Image

Attached Image


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 17 2014, 09:50 PM

I think I recognize that plate! Dang that looks nice.

Yeah totally agree on the reservoir o-ring. It's the same on the MC itself. And if you use a pressure bleeder you won't like what happens AT ALL.

Trunk is looking good Kent! I think I will use your half-canister to cover my starter and clutch MC holes in the trunk. Bunch of seal sealer and paint and it'll be barely noticeable.

Posted by: partwerks Aug 19 2014, 05:18 AM



This is a good time to point out what I believe is a poor design with the Wilwood reservoir. The inner piece which holds the "single o-ring" isn't strong enough to withstand the forces placed upon it by the clamp. As it gives the piece takes on a tapered shape pushing the reservoir up and away from the base. Notice the 6mm gap? As it pushes up, the o-ring ends up below the hose clamp as you can see in the 2nd pic below.

I don't know if it would be a good idea or not, but could a person use some of that purple gunk that plumbers put on pvc to glue it together, to seal it??

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Aug 19 2014, 05:28 AM

I've worked with six of the Wilwood reservoirs and have had no problems at all. You may be a little too tight with the clamp. sunglasses.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 19 2014, 09:17 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Aug 17 2014, 08:50 PM) *

I think I recognize that plate! Dang that looks nice.

Yeah totally agree on the reservoir o-ring. It's the same on the MC itself. And if you use a pressure bleeder you won't like what happens AT ALL.

Trunk is looking good Kent! I think I will use your half-canister to cover my starter and clutch MC holes in the trunk. Bunch of seal sealer and paint and it'll be barely noticeable.

I found the 2nd cover I made ( the black square one) allows for easy future repairs that the smaller one(s) did not.

QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 19 2014, 04:18 AM) *

This is a good time to point out what I believe is a poor design with the Wilwood reservoir. The inner piece which holds the "single o-ring" isn't strong enough to withstand the forces placed upon it by the clamp. As it gives the piece takes on a tapered shape pushing the reservoir up and away from the base. Notice the 6mm gap? As it pushes up, the o-ring ends up below the hose clamp as you can see in the 2nd pic below.

I don't know if it would be a good idea or not, but could a person use some of that purple gunk that plumbers put on pvc to glue it together, to seal it??

No. That purple stuff is an acetone based primer intended for vinyl plastics and is not a glue. Dirko might possibly work but I'd need to read up on it, first.

QUOTE(BIGKAT_83 @ Aug 19 2014, 04:28 AM) *

I've worked with six of the Wilwood reservoirs and have had no problems at all. You may be a little too tight with the clamp. sunglasses.gif

The GA models are known to be of a better quality. happy11.gif Honestly Bob the unit leaked before the tightening began. True the reservoir rose as it was tightened but I could not find a "happy medium" where it would not leak. Not crazy about that single o-ring design either.

Posted by: CptTripps Aug 19 2014, 09:35 AM

My reservoir leaked ALL the fluid out before I caught it. I was very relieved when I discovered it was just the clamp. I haven't filled it back up yet because I didn't think of a good fix.

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 19 2014, 03:38 PM

I certainly might have under-tightened mine and then overtightened it. Still don't like that kind but I get why they make it that way.

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 19 2014, 05:43 PM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Aug 19 2014, 08:35 AM) *

My reservoir leaked ALL the fluid out before I caught it. I was very relieved when I discovered it was just the clamp. I haven't filled it back up yet because I didn't think of a good fix.

PM Chris. He'll get ya set up with the Honda part #'s and links. That freaking brake fluid is like a time bomb waiting to go off. Luckily the fluid from mine held on to the bottom of the hose until clear of the car. Well, one little spot beneath the tank which I caught in time. I wasn't too f*^$% happy about pulling the gas tank at 2100hr's when I noticed the leak. headbang.gif

Posted by: partwerks Aug 20 2014, 07:43 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 16 2014, 06:24 AM) *

I'm in manufacturing. You'll have to check with Chris in supply. lol-2.gif av-943.gif I honestly don't know but we'll get that info to you soon. Here is a shot of one installed but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Attached Image


Is center to center on the MC'S (1 1/2" holes) 91MM so when I hole saw out the other hole, I get it the correct distance over so it is in line with where it hooks up at? Also, vertical, where did you measure from to get it in the correct location?

91 Millimeters (mm)
=
3.58268 Inches (in)

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 20 2014, 07:49 PM

QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 20 2014, 06:43 PM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 16 2014, 06:24 AM) *

I'm in manufacturing. You'll have to check with Chris in supply. lol-2.gif av-943.gif I honestly don't know but we'll get that info to you soon. Here is a shot of one installed but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Attached Image


Is center to center on the MC'S (1 1/2" holes) 91MM so when I hole saw out the other hole, I get it the correct distance over so it is in line with where it hooks up at? Also, vertical, where did you measure from to get it in the correct location?

91 Millimeters (mm)
=
3.58268 Inches (in)

I'll measure that when the new MC arrives. Mine is installed so I can't get that for you right now. Chris said it was shipped a few days ago so maybe manana.

Posted by: partwerks Aug 20 2014, 07:59 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 20 2014, 05:49 PM) *

QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 20 2014, 06:43 PM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 16 2014, 06:24 AM) *

I'm in manufacturing. You'll have to check with Chris in supply. lol-2.gif av-943.gif I honestly don't know but we'll get that info to you soon. Here is a shot of one installed but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Attached Image


Is center to center on the MC'S (1 1/2" holes) 91MM so when I hole saw out the other hole, I get it the correct distance over so it is in line with where it hooks up at? Also, vertical, where did you measure from to get it in the correct location?

91 Millimeters (mm)
=
3.58268 Inches (in)

I'll measure that when the new MC arrives. Mine is installed so I can't get that for you right now. Chris said it was shipped a few days ago so maybe manana.



I wonder if a person could just measure on the pedal assembly where the two linkage parts are, from center to center on that?

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 20 2014, 08:13 PM

It's a little more complicated than that. Makes it a lot easier if you just have the dimensions of the bracket.

Hey Kent, check today's stack of mail...or your front door/bushes/etc. Tracking says it was delivered today USPS.

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 21 2014, 08:11 PM

I got Chris' new MC today so I'll pick up where I left off. Mine had screw in studs but this one has pressed in studs. Otherwise no difference. This is what I used; a MC, the modified plate, a clevis, an 8x1.25x16mm coupling nut (aka rod socket in SAE).

Attached Image

A pic of the MC with press in studs in place

Attached Image

There is a step on the backside that makes for an uneven surface to press against. You can see step where the washer is held.

Attached Image

When viewed from the end, the step is a semi circle so I cut this 5/16" washer in half

Attached Image

Set it beneath the impact socket that the stud will pass thru

Attached Image

Place the MC on the plate and match drill 5/16" / 8mm holes.

Attached Image

While you still have the bit chucked up drill the threads out of the clevis. It will guide itself but keep a good gripe on it with pliers or vice grips.

Attached Image

Make sure the clevis will slide freely down the threaded shaft.

Attached Image

Bevel the ends of the clevis and nut

Attached Image

Take one of the studs you just pressed out, thread it thru the nut and let it pass into the clevis so as to align the 2 pieces then clamp in place and weld. Get the stud out after the first tack so you don't weld it in place. That would suck. Grind off excess neatly so the clip will slide back over the clevis.

Attached Image

Should end up like this

Attached Image

I think this is the measurement that you needed.

Attached Image



Posted by: Chris H. Aug 21 2014, 08:56 PM

Great work Kent! Thanks for fixing that up for me!

Posted by: partwerks Aug 23 2014, 10:49 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jan 11 2014, 02:59 PM) *

Here are the dimensions for those interested. All dimensions are "mm" except for the 2, 1 1/2" dia. holes. Plate is 3/16" mild steel.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

***NOTE*** The dotted bend line should read 3 Degrees NOT 30 Degrees

Attached Image

Hey Chris, this one's got your name on it. PM your address.

Attached Image

This one's mine. You can paint yours any color you want.

Attached Image


91MM center to center, + 34 + 18 = 143
210-143 =67. As the picture is laying, on the RH side must be 67 to the center of the 1 1/2 hole, but seems out of whack for 78 mm to be in as far as it is marked, or is it just me?? According to the dimensions on the picture.

I cut my piece 8 1/4" X 3 9/16", but marking it from the left hand side seems to leave a lot running wild on the RH side.

Are the holes about 3 9/16" center to center?
I'm referring to the original pattern that the Wilwood, will use back on page 10.

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 24 2014, 09:55 PM

Closer to 3 3/8". Just center the hole with the clutch pedal arm. I ordered a new MC and found I didn't need one. Well I have a spare now and don't need to bleed it down again. biggrin.gif

Posted by: CptTripps Aug 25 2014, 02:11 PM

This is a very interesting mod. That looks like it'd be a LOT easier to attach to the resivoir. It'd be great to get an updated pattern for that plate after you're done.

I'm sure someone makes a clevis joint that'll work without welding. Right?

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Aug 25 2014, 02:56 PM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Aug 25 2014, 04:11 PM) *

This is a very interesting mod. That looks like it'd be a LOT easier to attach to the resivoir. It'd be great to get an updated pattern for that plate after you're done.

I'm sure someone makes a clevis joint that'll work without welding. Right?


On the ones I have made I just used a longer rod and a hiem joint with a button head allen bolt on the pedal end.
I may be in Cleveland this weekend. Maybe I can come by and check out your car?

Bob

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 25 2014, 04:19 PM

Oh man I hope this works out. Just talking to Bob on the phone for 15 minutes keeps me going for a month! BTW the car he is working on with d914 has the same engine...that thing sounds like it's gonna quite a handful (in a good way).

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 25 2014, 05:57 PM

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Aug 25 2014, 01:11 PM) *

This is a very interesting mod. That looks like it'd be a LOT easier to attach to the resivoir. It'd be great to get an updated pattern for that plate after you're done.

I'm sure someone makes a clevis joint that'll work without welding. Right?

That one is pretty long! I like Bob's idea.
QUOTE(BIGKAT_83 @ Aug 25 2014, 01:56 PM) *

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Aug 25 2014, 04:11 PM) *

This is a very interesting mod. That looks like it'd be a LOT easier to attach to the resivoir. It'd be great to get an updated pattern for that plate after you're done.

I'm sure someone makes a clevis joint that'll work without welding. Right?


On the ones I have made I just used a longer rod and a hiem joint with a button head allen bolt on the pedal end.
I may be in Cleveland this weekend. Maybe I can come by and check out your car?

Bob

Did you use a spare one or dress the end of a bolt, Bob?

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Aug 26 2014, 03:54 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 25 2014, 07:57 PM) *

QUOTE(CptTripps @ Aug 25 2014, 01:11 PM) *

This is a very interesting mod. That looks like it'd be a LOT easier to attach to the resivoir. It'd be great to get an updated pattern for that plate after you're done.



Did you use a spare one or dress the end of a bolt, Bob?

I used a 5/16 grade 8 bolt and turned the head just like the Honda one.

Posted by: partwerks Aug 26 2014, 06:13 AM

Did you use a hole saw for the hole in the firewall?

Posted by: CptTripps Aug 26 2014, 08:10 AM

QUOTE(BIGKAT_83 @ Aug 25 2014, 04:56 PM) *

I may be in Cleveland this weekend. Maybe I can come by and check out your car?


That would make my day if you could stop by. I PM'd you my info.

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 26 2014, 08:20 AM

QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 26 2014, 05:13 AM) *

Did you use a hole saw for the hole in the firewall?

You certainly could however I used a hole punch.

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 26 2014, 08:09 PM

A hole punch? That would take FOREVER av-943.gif . I know, I know....not a paper hole punch.

So I think I owe the group some measurements, part numbers, etc.

First, if you're gonna do the Honda MC you have to COMMIT. The MC housing is longer at the front so you have to cut a hole so the whole housing (not just the pin) comes through the floor. Not a huge deal unless you might change to another type of MC at some point...hole might be a little big in that case and you'd have to plug it.

Attached Image

Attached Image

It wasn't that hard to cut the hole since I already had a smaller one.

So the stock OEM Honda master is made by Nissin. You want the years 1992ish to 2000. Anything newer is obviously different because it has a weird triangular piece at the end of it. You DON'T want that kind. Sometimes marketed as "Adler", they are about $45-$55 shipped new, or $25-$30 used. There are a TON of aftermarket ones as well. The only aftermarket MC I've heard negative things about has been Omni.

The stock reservoir to MC hose is an 8mm hose (this is the actual one from Kent's, which is only 6 inches long because his is out of a Del Sol). You can probably use 914 fuel hose or brake hose if you have some.

Attached Image

Attached Image

You can either get a used Honda MC reservoir or buy a generic one. I got mine for $18 on e-bay. If you go generic just make sure the outlet is at least 7mm but not too large for the 8mm hose to stretch onto.

Attached Image

Attached Image

For the hydraulic line connection you need a very specific 10x1 fitting. One end is tapered, the other is not. Here's the one Kent and I bought:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360524159370?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

The longest clevis I've found is 48mm. Here it is:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#2448k48/=tgdzmb

Still not long enough, Kent added a piece to it to extend it as described previously. He can tell you what he used, but it's probably an 8mm nut of some kind. Bob also mentioned changing the rod end to a longer one, which is a great idea as well.

Beyond that you need what you need for any hydraulic conversion. We bought 15 feet of Aeroquip -3an hose, a 10x1 Banjo fitting at the slave cylinder end, and this fitting on the other end:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FBM1120

Kent, did I miss anything?

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 27 2014, 08:41 AM

Excellent. Thanks for adding that, Chris. You didn't miss a thing. Wish I could say that. dry.gif That was an experience, huh? It was worth it though. God I love that smooooooooooth hydraulic clutch. And unlike cables they give a little notice when failing.

Posted by: partwerks Aug 30 2014, 09:59 PM

The Heim joint shown will be replaced with a clevis fitting. Otherwise it is offset too much for my taste.



If that dog leg is eliminated, then how is that other system hooked up then to the CMC?
Could a person remove the dog leg part, and make one that is a straight piece instead of the offset?

Would the timing of it need to be the same position as the dog leg one?

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 3 2014, 06:49 PM

I've got around 250 miles on Kugel now and thought I'd share some of my teething problems up to this point. Somewhere around test drive #5, I had settled down enough to realize that it was sheeplove.gif hot in the cabin. Not only that but my gas tank had become a heat sink as well. The first thing was to seal the gap where the "old heat tube" passed thru the bulkhead. This required a couple of crescent shaped pieces of foam.

Attached Image

Test drive #6 revealed no noticeable improvement. I forgot to seal off the air box so I made a couple of foam plugs.

Attached Image

Test drive #7 showed a big improvement but found the "full" gas tank was still hot to the touch after a run. I had one of Mark's cowl seals on my shopping list because mine was toast but I thought I would try something different instead. After all, should I expect a new seal to perform way outside the envelope for which it was developed. The OG seal had 5ea / 45mm for an area of 1590mm)openings (if any) opening into the front trunk. And I had added 4 38mm holes or 1134sq mm. So this was my solution. I took apiece of 1/2" walled pipe insulation and placed it over the existing old damaged seal. As you can see in the pic's it comes with a slit in it so it slides right over the old one. The first nite it was a tight fit and raised the hood very slightly. By the 3rd day the insulation had compressed into place and the hood now sits as it should. Noticed the compressed area on the insulation?

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

This was the final fix and I'm happy with how cool the cabin is since these changes. But I still had a nagging overheating problem. I had been warned not to run thru the longs by a few members so I'm hoping it isn't the additional length of hose that is the problem. I choose a 14 mile round trip to begin testing. OAT range from 88F to 95F. 7F is a small difference. The next 3 test runs consisted of attaching a small lip to the bottom of the fender opening to act as a scoop; enlarging the opening in the fiberglass fairing 1/2" across the bottom; removing one access plug in the floor and running with the front hood partially open or cracked. None of these attempts helped. I was able to find the temps would always begin their ascent at 9 miles nom. With the IR I found I had a 5F drop across the radiator. Hold'er Newt. That ain't right. With fans on high, low or off didn't matter. Unless the cover for the radiator was removed. And then the fans cooled it quickly. So now I can assume the radiator is sized correctly, thermostat good, hose runs good, fans good, etc. How could this be. I assumed because others had success with the OEM oil cooler openings (along with 4 more punched out) that this should work for me as well. But I was comparing apples to oranges. My radiator, fans, and venting were different as well. idea.gif I didn't think it would make any difference but I decided to cut out the area that had the punched holes before I called Bob to explain what a dumb ass I am. The overall cut out was only 3.25" x 18" or the same as the area cut out on the bumper and fairing. Here is a pic of the removed piece.

Attached Image

Not much larger but after "now" Test drive #15 I had my first result. I completed the test run and temps were in the middle. Checked a few items and went back out. After 6 miles the temps began to rise but leveled off towards the high end of the scale. It was 82F that run. The coolest so far but still not much difference in ambient temps. idea.gif Then I spotted it. What an idiot! All I can say is that I missed this one and have no excuses.

Attached Image

Attached Image

I had not considered the gap between the fender/fairing and the body. The gap along the bottom is appx 1/2", you can see the pie shaped openings on the sides and the one along the top edge was 1.5"-2". After a quick duct taping we went on
Test drive #16. Holy stromberg.gif , that was it. Duh! That incoming compressed air had been shooting thru the gaps. The gaps were probably low pressure areas and diverted most of that incoming air right out the fender. I have been running w/o fans for 2 days without any temps above the 1/2 way mark. piratenanner.gif Tonite I removed the tape and filled the gaps with foam. The gap was so large along the top that I stuffed an untrimmed piece of pipe insulation in there to seal it. I have a few cosmetic items and other things to do but other than that, I think this might be the final chapter. I hope some of this build thread will help others with there conversion somewhere. beerchug.gif






Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 20 2014, 11:15 PM

I think this will be a nice functional addition to my cooling system. Chris told me (Bob told Chris and so it goes)about these 914-6 louvered floor pans. My floor pan was beat to shit so I welcomed this opportunity to have a nice flat surface and increase my venting with the addition of the louvers. The panel is $68 from Patrick Motorsports. Needs paint and the bottom side needs a trim in 2 spots and then welded. That's just cosmetic but I need to jack it up pretty high so I'm in no hurry. biggrin.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: JRust Sep 21 2014, 12:08 AM

I dig the louvers. Nice touch & glad to hear you figured the cooling. Always seem to be some trial & error. Glad you were able to make it work in the longs. While it definitely would not have worked with my v8. I don't doubt I could cool my 2.5 suby conversion hearing yours is working. Mine doesn't get hot with the smallest of openings for inlets. Hope to see yours soon bud. Nice work beerchug.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 21 2014, 08:58 AM

QUOTE(JRust @ Sep 20 2014, 11:08 PM) *

I dig the louvers. Nice touch & glad to hear you figured the cooling. Always seem to be some trial & error. Glad you were able to make it work in the longs. While it definitely would not have worked with my v8. I don't doubt I could cool my 2.5 suby conversion hearing yours is working. Mine doesn't get hot with the smallest of openings for inlets. Hope to see yours soon bud. Nice work beerchug.gif

bye1.gif Hey Jamie, thanks a lot. And you will see me in a year. At RRC 2015. Just missed RRC by a week or two this year. We will both be driving our Suby's next year. piratenanner.gif Word on the street is that there will be 3 to 5 Suby powered 914's at RRC next year! Can you guess the others? Any updates on yours?

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 21 2014, 09:31 AM

That is exactly what Scotty and I were discussing as one of the options for my trunk if we were to add a front oil cooler.

Posted by: Chris H. Sep 21 2014, 10:08 AM

Nice work Kent! You already said it but yes, 100% Bob's idea. I haven't done mine yet because I'm routing all my air out the bottom so I need more louvers punched. Finally found a place around here who can do it about 90 miles away, just have to get there. Just gonna get another row of 4 X 4.

Posted by: GS Guy Sep 21 2014, 01:01 PM

Check out Hammond Mfg. PN PVLL19012BK2
Louvered instrument rack panel - packed with louvers, about $40. If the size works this might be a less expensive alternative that a custom louvered panel.

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 21 2014, 03:40 PM

Just be sure it's .050 / 18ga.
It cleaned up nicely. biggrin.gif

Attached Image

Bandjoey had mentioned Duplicolor's carpet paint so I tried some. I'll need another can to complete the job. I did the rear trunk and floor pieces with one can.
Side by Side difference

Attached Image

Attached Image

Before the one on the right was sprayed.
Attached Image

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Sep 21 2014, 03:47 PM

Not really my idea on the louvers. It was d914's but he put them on the hood.Wished I had a picture of D914 car with the hood louvers but I'm out of the country now and not at home.
I have planned to use them in the floor if needed on my LS3 car.


Bob

Posted by: Chris H. Sep 21 2014, 04:32 PM

QUOTE(GS Guy @ Sep 21 2014, 02:01 PM) *

Check out Hammond Mfg. PN PVLL19012BK2
Louvered instrument rack panel - packed with louvers, about $40. If the size works this might be a less expensive alternative that a custom louvered panel.


I'm liking that! Has 30 louvers VERY close together...and you can buy another smaller panel if need be. Definitely something to consider. Thank you Geoff.

Specs:

Attached File  PVLL19012__2_.pdf ( 76.04k ) Number of downloads: 23


Here is a pic of Greg's car:

Attached Image

It looks like he used those hot rod panels. Looks cool.

Posted by: d914 Sep 21 2014, 06:07 PM

I did, and I have a reverse view, very open, and should cause a draw of air flow out

Posted by: d914 Sep 21 2014, 06:09 PM

Attached Image

Posted by: madmax914 Sep 22 2014, 09:21 AM

Great thread for the Subie guys! I’ve been following Kent’s build for several months now and your louvered front trunk floor has raised some questions for me and my Subaru conversion. First I’m not even close to buying my motor and tranny for my car at this point; I want to sort out the suspension and other components before I dive into the actual conversion. My question is my 914 had A/C and I wanted to use the opening in the floor to allow the air to flow out through that opening. I was thinking to screen it and then shroud the radiator so the air flowed down and out the opening. My concern is that I’d be putting too much air under the car and affecting the down force. I plan on using this car as driver with an occasional autocross if I feel the need. Sounds like most of you have been around the block with these conversions and wanted your opinions.
Sorry Kent I’m not trying to hijack your tread, I just know a lot of Subie guys are reading it.

Thanks,
Brent



Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 22 2014, 09:52 AM

Talk with Ross (Rnellums here), he did exactly that and I think it is working great for him. There have been discussions re: this style install and it's effect upon high speed handling but I believe most of this information is either hear say or conjecture as there aren't enough similar conversions that use this method to draw any concrete conclusions. Personally, I cannot speak to this as my top speed (on 10 yr old tires) has only been 105mph, thus far. Once it has new tires I should be able to comment with some reservations. biggrin.gif FWIW, I believe one could retain 60% of their front trunk space by using this fan install method coupled with some 5" sub-floor design that would also serve as the ducting to floor vented fan. Did you start a thread for us to follow, yet? drooley.gif

Posted by: ruby914 Sep 22 2014, 11:45 AM

Kent,
Did you remove the clutch return spring from the peddle assembly?
I am pre-installing everything now, it seems like the clutch peddle would need a very light spring the other way, if anything?

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 22 2014, 03:44 PM

Removed. Not necessary! Overkill run a muck. ar15.gif

Posted by: Chris H. Sep 22 2014, 03:56 PM

You can either add a spacer or just unclip it like I did (after pounding the sh*(t out of my roll pin). I'm just going to cut the hooks off when I take mine apart again to paint it.

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 22 2014, 06:02 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Sep 22 2014, 02:56 PM) *

You can either add a spacer or just unclip it like I did (after pounding the sh*(t out of my roll pin). I'm just going to cut the hooks off when I take mine apart again to paint it.

Chris, use the spacer or carry a spare spring in case that one breaks. If that clutch tube slides to either side the clevis fitting will bind and begin to wear.

Posted by: rnellums Sep 24 2014, 12:36 PM

I Haven't noticed the front end getting light from venting through the floor, but I'll let you know after my track day this weekend (i should be hitting 115 mph easily). I have noticed that I seem to run out of gear though with stock profile tires. At 105-110 I seem to be getting pretty close to the redline in 5th. I've got my prototype front ducting setup now and essentially have a full front trunk worth of space (spare in trunk).

Posted by: madmax914 Sep 24 2014, 01:01 PM

QUOTE(rnellums @ Sep 24 2014, 11:36 AM) *

I Haven't noticed the front end getting light from venting through the floor, but I'll let you know after my track day this weekend (i should be hitting 115 mph easily). I have noticed that I seem to run out of gear though with stock profile tires. At 105-110 I seem to be getting pretty close to the redline in 5th. I've got my prototype front ducting setup now and essentially have a full front trunk worth of space (spare in trunk).


I'll be eager to hear how it does for you this weekend. Do you have any pictures of your front trunk set-up?

Thanks,

Posted by: mgp4591 Sep 24 2014, 01:08 PM

I noticed my Subie is out of revs around 118 or so- sounds like you have the same trans as mine. And yes, pictures please! Seeing your setup gave me lots of ideas and now you've run out of room?! idea.gif

Posted by: DBCooper Sep 24 2014, 02:00 PM

I'm surprised you're all done so soon. I've been told my car goes... um... quite a lot faster than that, and I know was still pulling very hard at 109 in the quarter.



Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Sep 24 2014, 03:36 PM

QUOTE(rnellums @ Sep 24 2014, 02:36 PM) *

I Haven't noticed the front end getting light from venting through the floor, but I'll let you know after my track day this weekend (i should be hitting 115 mph easily). I have noticed that I seem to run out of gear though with stock profile tires. At 105-110 I seem to be getting pretty close to the redline in 5th. I've got my prototype front ducting setup now and essentially have a full front trunk worth of space (spare in trunk).

Using the stock ECU what is the rev limiter set at? I have my Megasquirt set for a soft limit at 7K.

Posted by: rnellums Sep 24 2014, 06:06 PM

THe stock EZ30D is at 6500 RMP. It is still pulling hard headed towards redline. The transmission is out of a 2001 2.5 RS (final drive is 4.11) which I believe has the tallest gears. I could always go to a larger profile tire. I'll update some pics of my front trunk in my thread tonight.

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 24 2014, 06:35 PM

I'm glad this came up. I will need some new tires to replace these 10 yr old's. I'd like taller tires to improve the usefulness of 1st gear. What tall tires sound good. I'm running 4 bolt wheels so I might be limited. Suggestions?

Posted by: ruby914 Sep 25 2014, 02:15 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Sep 24 2014, 05:35 PM) *

I'm glad this came up. I will need some new tires to replace these 10 yr old's. I'd like taller tires to improve the usefulness of 1st gear. What tall tires sound good. I'm running 4 bolt wheels so I might be limited. Suggestions?


4 bolt wheels, tall tires sound good happy11.gif
So, you thought you were all done? shades.gif lol-2.gif av-943.gif


Posted by: euro911 Sep 25 2014, 03:37 AM

See if you can get some 205/65x15s ... you may need to roll the rear fender lips though confused24.gif

Posted by: ruby914 Sep 25 2014, 10:04 AM

Before I flared my car, my current front tires (225 x 50 x 16) were in the back.
It took a lot of rolling but I really did like the look. They were 5 lug but you can fit quit a bit in the back before you have to flare.
With the original 4 lug wheel and tires, I remember a lot of tire spin. With the 6 and no turbo, how does it feel now?

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 25 2014, 12:26 PM

QUOTE(ruby914 @ Sep 25 2014, 01:15 AM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Sep 24 2014, 05:35 PM) *

I'm glad this came up. I will need some new tires to replace these 10 yr old's. I'd like taller tires to improve the usefulness of 1st gear. What tall tires sound good. I'm running 4 bolt wheels so I might be limited. Suggestions?


4 bolt wheels, tall tires sound good happy11.gif
So, you thought you were all done? shades.gif lol-2.gif av-943.gif

I always planned on keeping the 4 bolt wheel pattern. It's part of the "bait". happy11.gif

QUOTE(euro911 @ Sep 25 2014, 02:37 AM) *

See if you can get some 205/65x15s ... you may need to roll the rear fender lips though confused24.gif

I'm running 205/60/15's currently. Embarrassed to say but I never learned the new tire sizing thing. What exactly is the difference between the two, Mark?

QUOTE(ruby914 @ Sep 25 2014, 09:04 AM) *

Before I flared my car, my current front tires (225 x 50 x 16) were in the back.
It took a lot of rolling but I really did like the look. They were 5 lug but you can fit quit a bit in the back before you have to flare.
With the original 4 lug wheel and tires, I remember a lot of tire spin. With the 6 and no turbo, how does it feel now?

I don't have that info yet Mike. No tire spins until I can magnaflux my home made engine cradle. That will be another 30 hr's TT from now. But to answer your question, I'm pretty sure it will spin anything I can bolt to my current set up. happy11.gif

Posted by: euro911 Sep 25 2014, 02:36 PM

My understanding was that you were planning on stock offset wheels and retaining the narrow body characteristics. That's why I said 205/65-15s. I apologize if I'm preaching to the choir, but here goes:

The first # (205) is the tread width (the higher the #, the wider the tire is). In this case, a 205 is a nominal 8" width.

The second # (65) is the aspect ratio, or 'profile' (the higher the # the taller the tire is).


The stock OEM 914 tires were 165SR15, which were actually 165/80-15 (6.5" wide and 25.4" diameter). 205/65-15s are only slightly taller (25.5" diameter) than the stock tires but 1.5" wider (8").

205/65-15s are roughly 3% taller than the 205/60s you're currently running, so they're pretty close to stock height.

You can get away with wider tires (maybe 215) if you have a lower profile, but you may have rubbing issues, especially during hard cornering at speed. Also, the lower the aspect ratio, the higher RPM you're running at highway speeds.


Here's the tire size calculator I've been using for years: (http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tirecalc.php?tires=165-80r15-205-65r15) ... There's also one on 914 World as well, but I haven't been able to get it to work for me confused24.gif ... (http://www.914world.com/specs/tirecalc.php)

Posted by: Chris H. Sep 25 2014, 03:46 PM

205/65 would be pretty fat and wide, I might be worried about rubbing (that's the weirdest thing I have typed in a while). 195/65 is very close to the original (tall) stock. Every brand is different though so check a few out unmounted before you get them installed.

Speaking of louvers piratenanner.gif

Check out what I got done today:

oooohhh

Attached Image

aaaaahhh

Attached Image

other noises

Attached Image


Found the NICEST guy who punched some more louvers in my PM panel. He owns a one-man hot rod shop about 50 miles outside of the Chicago area (but 100 miles from me). Was doing some beautiful cars. All 1920's to 1940's stuff. His metal skills were amazing. Of course I left my phone in the car so no pics there headbang.gif . Went from 16 to 40 total in a ~ 12.5 inch x 18 inch area. I also like the fact that the more concentrated ones are towards the back where most of the air will be exiting.

He said he would be willing to do more panels so maybe I'll do a group thing if there's a demand. Could probably do it for not much more than a Patrick panel but with about 3X the louvers.

OK Kent, I have 40, 4" x .25" louvers, what's my total exit flow area now? Am I at 2:1 if I cut the front out like yours but maybe not the upper bumper part? Just cut the holes into one big hole?

Edit: Duh, it's 40 square inches...I'll measure the inlet...probably NOT 2:1 but if I shroud it hopefully we'll be OK.

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 25 2014, 05:03 PM

That panel gives you ~40sq inches. If your cut out is like mine (3.5" x 18") your inlet will equal 63". I've read but not confirmed that our target area for the outlet should = 1.7 x the inlet area.
63 x 1.7 = ~107 sq inches.
-40 sq inches
67 sq inches
So, if that 1.7 factor is correct you'll need another 67 sq inches. That being said, there are at least 5 unknowns that come to mind. First, is 1.7 factor an arbitrary number reached by someone? Was that figure for a LS1, 350 CI block, a 4 cyl Suby, a Ford 6 cylinder and so on? Where was that person's inlet and outlets located? What effect does hose size or routing have on this formula? Secondly is the location/placement of the outlets/louvers. IOW, are we placing the louvers in the lowest pressure area? The style of bumper that we use will greatly effect this location as well. I would think the louvers are most effective close behind the bumper where they ride in an relatively undisturbed slipstream. I suspect the air becomes quite scattered the further back one goes, which I'm sure has it's effect upon how efficient these louvers will be.
FWIW my total outlet area = 61 sq inches. So by following that formula I am 46 sq inches short or appx 43% undersized. As you know (Chris and I compare notes on a very regular basis), I'm very close, if not "at" the correct amount.
Alas, we may all be on our own until we standardize these installations and I don't see that happening unless people are willing to duplicate someones "correct" build.
I wish one of our AE's here was water cooled and could put the slide rule to this. A wind tunnel or raised flat bed truck + a 914 + some streamers and smoke pens would give the visual reference that my dumb ass would need. biggrin.gif


Posted by: Chris H. Sep 25 2014, 05:44 PM

Well I'm not sure if this will be enough but I'm planning to start by just cutting the holes up front into one big hole, so that's 2x18". Gives me 36 square in, 40 square out. If that proves to be inadequate I can cut out a section of the inner part of the bumper reinforcements. Definitely can get to 2:1 that way. I ordered the Renegade valance that looks like it scoops air in pretty well and then plan to make a ducting system like Ross's to push it back out. I think it will work fine.

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 25 2014, 06:03 PM

I like it! Looks like that shape will give you a nice low pressure area beneath the louvers, also. popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: Chris H. Sep 25 2014, 06:08 PM

Yeah I called in last week to order it and the VERY nice person on the phone said "Hi this is Melba! How can I help you????" I thought...Melba...how do I know that name....hmmmm...don't know anyone who lives in Vegas....after a while I realized it was Toast from the BBS! Too funny.

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 5 2014, 05:44 PM

Toast is good people. grouphug.gif Well, my Speedo died yesterday but no biggie. It's new. I had done a quick patchwork at the gage area that needed to be corrected. I wired in a 12v power outlet but it's not installed on the gage face plate yet. The CEL is also back there and waiting to be installed. Obviously I need to make another piece of the burled aluminum for the base plate. It will glue on the piece of plywood with a new shift boot. Use your imagination! Outside of the Burled Aluminum trim, it came out remarkably stock in appearance which is exactly what I had wanted. smash.gif
Gone are the A/F gage, oil pressure gage, fuel pressure gage. One vacancy will be filled with the seat heater switches another with a courtesy lite and the 3rd hole with the 12v power receptacle. All of my ancient carpet was rejuvenated for $13 worth of Dupli Color Vinyl, Fabric and Carpet spray paint. Doesn't leave the carpet feeling stiff either. smile.gif It does require vacuuming just like regular carpet though. headbang.gif Anybody notice the missing radio? Not me. I can listen to that 6 all day long. wub.gif The stereo is last on my list.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image




Posted by: 76-914 Oct 7 2014, 04:19 PM

My fans are now working off the ecu but I'll be damned if I know why. Let me go back to the beginning. I've always been mindful of over heating the engine so I let the engine get to 3/4 (on the factory gage) of the way HOT (normal is 1/2) and I would check each of the 3 wires coming from the ECU for continuity. They provide the ground to the relay that controls that fan. I never got continuity on any wire or any combination of those 3 wires. WTF.gif Last week after some testing I forgot to remove the jumper that ran from the low speed wire to the 3 wires twisted together. (Previously I had jumped the low speed wire to ground when needed. Which was when I saw temps climb past 1/2 way on the gage.) Anyway I came home and thought I heard the fans spooling down when I shut it off. WTF.gif Turned the key back on and nothing. OK, I was hearing things. Next nite same thing so I made a note to check the fans before shutting it down the next day. Sure enough the next day I pull into the garage and with the engine running I feel air sucking in the inlet. Pop the hood and the fans are running. And within 30 seconds they shut down and gage was below 1/2. WTF.gif
For the life of me I cannot explain this sequence. Possibly the ECU looks at that connection before needing it and writes it off if it's not there. And why would it not connect after temps went passed 1/2 confused24.gif And to confuse matters further, guess when the fans come on? At the 1/2 mark! Way cooler than I expected. I never thought to check for signals at that temp. As long as they work and the engine is happy, I'm good. In the coming weeks I plan to delete 1 wire at a time from the bunch of 3 to determine what does what. I suspect 1 wire will be common to the other 2 and those 2 will be hi & lo. Well see. dry.gif 700+ miles and counting. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Chris H. Oct 9 2014, 12:33 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Oct 7 2014, 05:19 PM) *

Sure enough the next day I pull into the garage and with the engine running I feel air sucking in the inlet. Pop the hood and the fans are running. And within 30 seconds they shut down and gage was below 1/2. WTF.gif



Sounds like your airflow is pretty good! beerchug.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Nov 16 2014, 05:52 PM

I finally did some work on Kugel today. I've been having so much fun that I put this off until now. I hadn't wired my backup lights into the conversion yet so today (ahem, after a spirited run earlier biggrin.gif )I found the last relay removed from the donor car and used it with the tranny switch on the ground side of the relay. The Subaru switch is the same plunger style switch as the 901.
Here is the relay (blue)mounted and wired up

Attached Image

Key on and I have reverse lights again. biggrin.gif This winter I need to wire up my neutral switch, too.

Attached Image

I reinstalled the rain tray and guess what; it fits! piratenanner.gif

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 30 2015, 10:00 PM

It's been a few months since my last post. The car now has about 2700 miles and most of that has been uneventful, which is a good thing. shades.gif Items have been a rear brake line that leaked because I forgot to tighten it. That took 7 months to show up. The right headlamp power plug became disconnected because I ran the lead incorrectly and it would pull off when the lamp rotated. The horn took on a life of it's own till I discovered the warped rubber puck under the horn button. And one chaffed radiator hose that I carelessly installed.
This weekend at Rt66 the temp went up on me at 2700 ASL and I had to pull over for a few minutes then continued on with out incident. I caught it early and the engine didn't get heat soaked. I had been hammering it! OAT was increasing in Palm Springs. I had the RPM's in the 4-5K range and was pumping water too quickly thru my single pass radiator. Climbed another 3500' that day w/o incident but I kept the power setting at a sane level.
What I learned from this is that I'm "Border Line" on my cooling. I need a 2 or 3 core radiator. I plan on adding A/C and want to be able to drive in the summer, thru Vegas with A/C blasting. So, I will document that here once I install another radiator.
Mike Wills was nice enough to bring a windshield to Rt66 from AZ, Thx again Mike. beerchug.gif So yesterday afternoon I removed my old sandblasted windshield. I was afraid of running into rust issues with < than a month before WCR15 but decided to just go for it and was pleasantly surprised. A surface rust area the size of a dime on the lower right corner and a slightly larger area on the left lower corner but it too is just surface rust. I Ice Picked the Hell out of it. All of the holes for the plastic rivets are true and no rust on any of them. biggrin.gif I need to get a roll of Butyl Tape, a seal for the dash to windshield, clean and prime the channel then slap it in.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Check out the dirt. No wonder they hold moisture in this area.

Attached Image

The old seal removed. The shit was so hard a cat couldn't scratch it!

Attached Image

L&R lower corners. This is a bad as it gets. piratenanner.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

These 2 pic's show the general condition of the channel. I'm a lucky man. drooley.gif
I won't bore anyone with the install. That ones been done already.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 12 2015, 10:09 PM

Finally! Two weeks in the garage but the new windshield is water tested and installed. I need new wiper blades to complete. New tires will be in this week so they will get mounted on the new Fuch's. Follow up with good cleaning and she'll be ready for WCR15. piratenanner.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Lugs nuts all prettied up

Attached Image


Posted by: Chris H. Apr 13 2015, 08:09 AM

Nice! I bet it's like you don't even have a windshield in. Clear as a bell. I like the way yours is evolving. You're using it and just making little changes here and there. 2700 miles...of aktion035.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 18 2015, 10:15 AM

Your so right, Chris. I drove facing into the sun yesterday and it was as clear as a bell. piratenanner.gif I finally got around to getting some tires mounted on the Fuch's I bought from Larmo. I went with 195/65's, which are larger than the 165/80's I had on there. Meet Mr. Inertia. I can feel it when accelarating or coasting. Also the break is MUCH more pronounced than previously. When it broke loose with the small tires you could feel it coming on early. More tire, more grip. As you can see in the pic's, there is very little difference in diameter's.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

And when I replaced the windshield I also replaced the vinyl and pad. I used Mark's product (914rubber.com) and was impressed. The foam is different in structure but I love the substantial "feel" it lends to the installation plus it is easy to install. Just lay it out, weigh it down then trace out the cut lines by pressing down on the foam against the raised steel edges. In the pic's you can see where I pressed down to reveal the cut lines then followed up with the felt tip. I cut the vinyl using the old piece as a template then stuffed the edges in with a slim flat piece of metal. (It's really a chip chaser but worked great. It's the one with the green handle) Now I need the new dash that Mark is making along with a carpet kit and the interior will be finished. When I say finished, I mean that in the Mike Bellis sense! av-943.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Next I added a bit more Dynamat to the interior firewall and on the gas tank bulkhead.

Attached Image


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 18 2015, 10:17 AM

Attached Image

And then to TOP everything off (punn intended) I added these little topper from Mikey

Attached Image

Posted by: JRust Apr 18 2015, 01:44 PM

Looking good bud! Can't wait for the new Dashes from 914 rubber. Long time in coming those smile.gif .

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 27 2015, 05:27 PM

Me too, Jamie. But we've waited this long; what's a few month's? Mark took on a huge project that has "someone else" pulling his hair out I'll bet Mark will get it right before he starts taking money. Harumfff! And speaking of waiting. I've treated Kugel as if he were my Red Headed step child for far too long. That being said; something I've lusted over drooley.gif wub.gif too many times. Proper mirrors. Only one question, though. Do I need to by a Rolex and leather jacket to "rub elbows" with this Real Mirror crowd? biggrin.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

And if one add CP mirrors I assume this is the next step. A real antennae.

Attached Image

A couple of door switch seals.

Attached Image

As long as I'm inside the door I need to start insulating and sealing things up. I'll start with the door. No room for insulation but a vapor barrier helps some.

Attached Image

But I believe this will be most beneficial; .5" insulation. I didn't place any on the firewall as it would interfere with installing the back pad.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Since I went to the trouble of pulling all of this old shit out I guess I should install some new carpet. I don't believe it appears the same colour in any of these pic's. confused24.gif The fit was excellent. Attaching the grommets to the posts were like stretching a gnat's ass over a rain barrel but they hold the carpet in place quite well.

Attached Image








Posted by: 76-914 Jul 27 2015, 05:31 PM

more

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

And why this concern for insulation? Well it has something to do with this thing. bootyshake.gif More on this, soon. beerchug.gif

Attached Image

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 27 2015, 05:38 PM

Nice work.

Posted by: Chris H. Jul 27 2015, 08:19 PM

CCCCOOL

Anyone who owned a VW in the mid-late '70's might get the hidden message biggrin.gif .


Posted by: euro911 Jul 28 2015, 12:34 AM

shades.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 6 2015, 11:05 PM

My 2nd condenser arrived this afternoon 3 days early. piratenanner.gif I ordered the 1st one too small out of ignorance. It might have been large enough but it would have chocked down the air flow to the radiator tremendously. This one is about 1.5" more narrow than my radiator. So here are some pics of my 1st test fit of the condenser.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

The compressor is ready to plumb in once I locate this 22mm suction fitting. The male one in the pic is 15mm. The suction port on the pump is 22mm. Now I need to order hose, fittings, evaporator and dryer.

Attached Image


Posted by: 914forme Aug 7 2015, 06:19 PM

popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 26 2015, 08:55 PM

I was finally able to locate that large AC fitting, so it was time to order hose and fittings. This was 3 evenings of perusing the internet and this is what I learned. These are the type tube used; steel, aluminum, SS, barrier hose, reduced barrier hose, Aeroquip, BurgaSeal aka BurgaClip. I was attracted to BurgaSeal because of the No-tools needed but those in the know said "Forget about it"! You could go broke using Aeroquip, I can't weld SS or Al so that left me with barrier hose. The reduced barrier hose is more $$ and allows tighter turns than plain barrier hose. I've since found the plain barrier hose turns quite enough for my needs. With that choice made I am left with 2 types of fittings to choose from; Barbed or BeadLock. Again, those in the know have suggested Beadlock as it is the Industry standard. This was a good choice (that happens when you take the pro's suggestions biggrin.gif ) as it turns out because of the big selection of fittings. I don't know stromberg.gif from Apple Butter about AC & fumbled about trying to create an order for fittings. I finally decided to order the hose first then "discover" what fittings I will need.

This is the #10,#8 & # 6 Hose I will need.

Attached Image

This is where I want to run them.

Attached Image

There are two factory holes in the gussets. The upper one needs to be enlarged for the hose.

Attached Image

And as you go forward the long flares out with the clam shell so it gets drilled.

Attached Image

The other side of the clamshell drilled and with a hose now passing thru it.

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 26 2015, 09:10 PM

Then down and back under the car following the curvature of the seam. I'm holding it the way it will stay once anchored. After that it turns into the wheel well and I'll show that after the fittings arrive.

Attached Image

Loosely in place you can see the Suction line hanging beneath the front of the door and the 2 lines curving around the rear and up into the engine compartment.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Across the engine

Attached Image

And then tie into these 2 lines. More in the next few days as fittings arrive.
Attached Image


Posted by: Andyrew Aug 26 2015, 10:56 PM

Watching! What are you doing to connect the old fittings to the new lines?

What exact condenser did you go with?

Posted by: 914forme Aug 27 2015, 07:17 AM

And where did you order the barrier hose from? Do tell popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 27 2015, 09:11 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 26 2015, 09:56 PM) *

Watching! What are you doing to connect the old fittings to the new lines?

What exact condenser did you go with?

Andrew, there are couplings for this. They are called line splicers and AFAIK are available in all sizes including reducing sizes. I'll be using a variant of these which incorporates the 134 test ports for the hi/lo sides. I'm using the OEM Suby compressor but if you will have to buy aftermarket I'd recommend Sanden compressors. Great aftermarket support. Or the OEM compressor that came on your engine.

QUOTE(914forme @ Aug 27 2015, 06:17 AM) *

And where did you order the barrier hose from? Do tell popcorn[1].gif

Stephan, on Ebay. IIRC, a seller named johnsjoy in Bedford, TX. He's a vet and combines orders to save on shipping. I'll post his info and the materials used a little later. BTW, your clutch plate shipped yesterday. You should have it Fri or Sat. beerchug.gif

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 27 2015, 09:47 AM

What does this guy think he is...a plumber or something? piratenanner.gif

Kent what are you going to control the setup with? The stock Subaru controls? Can't remember. Looking good thumb3d.gif .

Posted by: JRust Aug 27 2015, 01:08 PM

I was just considering running the lines through the long on the passenger side. Good to see that coming together Kent! I need to get mine going. Was hoping to have it done for Red Rocks. Doubtful with it off for paint now. I'll get it back less than a week before I leave. So I will probably just finish my center console & deal with the a/c over the winter dry.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 27 2015, 05:21 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Aug 27 2015, 08:47 AM) *

What does this guy think he is...a plumber or something? piratenanner.gif

Kent what are you going to control the setup with? The stock Subaru controls? Can't remember. Looking good thumb3d.gif .

The controls are mounted on the under dash unit I am using. I wanted to use Vintage Air's Gen2 Mini system but it is 1/2"nom too tall to fit beneath the cowling. If using that model I would have used their adapters to convert the OEM controls while in there. Very simple believe it or not. And I would have used that model if the car were completely apart. Then I could do some cutting and welding to make it fit. Another evaporator that caught my eye is a cheap $60 Chinese unit http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Under-Dash-AC-Air-Conditioner-Add-On-Unit-12V-8-5A-3-Speed-UN-0888C-/351494122081?hash=item51d6aeaa61&vxp=mtr that has 4ea. - 2.25" openings. 2 for the OEM dash vents and 2 for the defrost. No way to isolate them so it would always blow thru all 4 but that is not a problem unless you like foggy windscreens. lol-2.gif The challenge is that the unit is 12" deep which doesn't leave any wiggle room and you can't lay the unit on it's back to aim those outlets upwards. mad.gif I think it is doable but I'm concerned about the units longevity as well. idea.gif This is the unit I will use. Heating and cooling! piratenanner.gif http://www.ebay.com/itm/130609850519?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT I will need to trim a tad bit off of the console to fit. A bit more on the right side than left. But take a close look at the pic and you can see the 2 openings on top for the defrost. Those openings end up dead center beneath the defrost vents so that will be convenient. beerchug.gif Look for many screw ups along the way. You remember my fiasco with the gages. chair.gif

QUOTE(JRust @ Aug 27 2015, 12:08 PM) *

I was just considering running the lines through the long on the passenger side. Good to see that coming together Kent! I need to get mine going. Was hoping to have it done for Red Rocks. Doubtful with it off for paint now. I'll get it back less than a week before I leave. So I will probably just finish my center console & deal with the a/c over the winter dry.gif

Jamie, you can run behind the valance on either side or in the long. And the std barrier hose would fit w/o kinking. Just make sure it is the same side as the AC connections on your evaporator. I still need to run some water lines for the heater. I may run them up the tunnel or use the drivers side valance. They won't put off any heat unless I am using the heat. Then it becomes a moot point. GM has a nice 4 port heater valve. It's vacuum actuated so you need a vacuum solenoid as well. About $50 for the both of them.

Posted by: 914forme Aug 29 2015, 11:32 AM

Then I could do some cutting and welding to make it fit. Another evaporator that caught my eye is a cheap $60 Chinese unit http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Under-Dash-AC-Air-Conditioner-Add-On-Unit-12V-8-5A-3-Speed-UN-0888C-/351494122081?hash=item51d6aeaa61&vxp=mtr that has 4ea. - 2.25" openings. 2 for the OEM dash vents and 2 for the defrost. No way to isolate them so it would always blow thru all 4 but that is not a problem unless you like foggy windscreens.

I just bought that one to try, does not fit. Should require more cutting than the GenII unit would.

Attached Image

If I gave up on the idea of keeping the tock gas tank and when for a fuel cell, then I might not have all these issues. I would have other to deal with, but not this one.

Under dash certainly solves the problem, but then it clutters up the 914 cabin. I have started to think, even though I don't like them a center console could give me the space I need for all the modern getting soft niceties. beer.gif Don't get me wrong, I like driving with out sweet rings and a wet back. I like not getting swamp ass after a long trip, and I really like after on those cool fall mornings not having to drive a 914 in a parka on my way to an event.

I would love for an under cowl unit to be made and maybe I should just get back to body work, but part of that for me is sanitary line running and getting the provision done before I put a finish coat of paint on the car. Heck it would be nice to keep it in epoxy primer as much as I change my car. idea.gif Rat rod here I come. lol-2.gif At least it would be one color!

Posted by: 914forme Aug 29 2015, 11:33 AM

Forgot to say thanks for the bracket, made it here safely. beerchug.gif

Posted by: 914forme Aug 29 2015, 11:46 AM

And here is the mockup GenII Micro unit in a 914, as Kent said, minor issue with fitment. In reality until I have one in my hands, I don't know how close it is, but I am thinking you could move the fan, over some and duct it back into the unit. Might get by with very little cutting at that point and still run the stock gas tank.

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 29 2015, 07:42 PM

I decided to buy one of these for a couple of reasons. I knew I would make umpteen trips if I went to some company and that would get old quick. It came in a nice case with #6,8,10 & 12 dies. Reduced barrier dies are available and not included with this kit. This is their entry level model and if I did this for a living I would spring for their Hydraulic hand pump kit. That sucker can fit anywhere.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

I needed to make something so I could use this as a portable device as well. So I mounted it on a piece of 2" tube to give me some leverage when tightening.

Attached Image

Attached Image

This is the best reason to purchase one of these tools. This is a trick the Pros use. By twisting the hose you can get it to conform to bends w/ very little manipulation. The other end is a bulkhead fitting and crimped 90 degrees off so that when it is twisted to penetrate the front trunk it twists the hose. This twist makes the hose follow the seam that the hose is clamped to. It would be a Bitch to take the hose to someone and hope they got it correct. And I would need huge holes to pull the hose thru if fittings were installed beforehand.

Attached Image

The #8 bulkhead fitting from the wheel well side.

Attached Image

And from the trunk side.

Attached Image


Posted by: 76-914 Aug 29 2015, 07:44 PM

And a few more.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 914forme Aug 29 2015, 07:48 PM

Oh wow another tool to buy, unless you want to recoup some of your investment, I, have an addiction, poke.gif feed the addict!!! chowtime.gif

http://www.mastercool.com/product-category/automotive-products/hose-crimping-tools/ Oh they have brake line and AN flaring tools also. drooley.gif

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 30 2015, 08:08 AM

Awesome! Looks fantastic!

Let me know if you want to sell it when your done!

Posted by: JRust Aug 30 2015, 01:59 PM

I may just have to come visit to have you do the lines for mine evilgrin.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 30 2015, 05:02 PM

QUOTE(914forme @ Aug 29 2015, 06:48 PM) *

Oh wow another tool to buy, unless you want to recoup some of your investment, I, have an addiction, poke.gif feed the addict!!! chowtime.gif

http://www.mastercool.com/product-category/automotive-products/hose-crimping-tools/ Oh they have brake line and AN flaring tools also. drooley.gif

Tell me about it. Hi, my name is Kent and I'm a Tool Whore! lol-2.gif av-943.gif

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 30 2015, 07:08 AM) *

Awesome! Looks fantastic!

Let me know if you want to sell it when your done!

Thanks Andrew. I'm looking forward to watching your build. I'd rent it out to folks I know for $30 + shipping.

QUOTE(JRust @ Aug 30 2015, 12:59 PM) *

I may just have to come visit to have you do the lines for mine evilgrin.gif

Anytime my friend. Let me know when your ready.

And now; Back to work.

This morning I mounted the dryer. A hose clamp helps hold the dryer as well as 2 O-rings. You can see the grommet in the upper left corner that the hose passes thru. I need to keep this area air tight where possible.

Attached Image

Attached Image

I ran out of fittings so the hose just stops at the bulkhead fitting for now.

Attached Image

Another view after it passes thru the grommet. Getting a little crowded in this area.

Attached Image

I need to find someone to weld these aluminum fittings together. Rather than use 4 fittings to go from the Subaru OEM Reduced barrier fittings on the compressor I decided to Marry 1/2 their tube to 1/2 of a beadlock fitting. It will be much tidier in the end.

Attached Image

Once those are welded up I can cut these to final length and crimp these 2 fittings.

Attached Image

Still have the binary switch to wire in.

Attached Image

An O-Ring on both sides helps support the dryer

Attached Image

Now the hi and low lines are run together sans the Adel clamps. They should arrive next week.

Attached Image


Posted by: 76-914 Aug 30 2015, 05:03 PM

cont'd.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

And I need 2 more bulkhead fittings to get these 2 open hoses into the cabin and tied into the evaporator. More after I receive some more fittings. beerchug.gif

Attached Image


Posted by: Andyrew Aug 30 2015, 10:49 PM

I will take you up on that!

Great looking build! I thinking going to run my lines through the heater hose tunnel. My car was a dealer AC car so I have the provisions on the pass side but I think I would rather do it this way, save from running them near the wheels.

What condenser did you go with?

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 31 2015, 08:57 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 30 2015, 09:49 PM) *

I will take you up on that!

Great looking build! I thinking going to run my lines through the heater hose tunnel. My car was a dealer AC car so I have the provisions on the pass side but I think I would rather do it this way, save from running them near the wheels.

What condenser did you go with?

Just holler when your ready, Andy. I think that's a great area to run your lines thru the longs. That wasn't an option for me as I used the longs for radiator lines. I may try to "sneak" the water lines for the heater up thru the tunnel, though. If I use some SS braided hose I may have enough space but crap that stuff is $$$$. Why is shiny car stromberg.gif expensive? Inferior minds want to know. biggrin.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 2 2015, 07:14 PM

Forgot to answer Andrew's question. It's the OG compressor, came with the donor car, an LL Bean.

Look what was waiting on me when I got home today. piratenanner.gif cheer.gif Man am I impressed. Talk about "under promise, over deliver"! I can't recall the last time I received a product so complete and professionally made. BTW, Made in the San Antonio, TX. Even the ABS cover is made in in house. All relays, solenoids, hose, hangers are included. I can't detect China on it anywhere. And, if you need support, have a question or whatever you talk to one of their in house techs for free. A+ product, A+ service.

Now I'm starting to get a picture of what is in store for me. Bob (BIGKAT83) tried to warn me. dry.gif . 1st order is to pull the old fresh air/heater box as it will not be needed. Anybody need one? Then out come the seats, carpet and console, again. Re-configure the glove box to pick up another 2" of passenger leg room and the console to accept the evap unit, remove the dash (IIRC 4th in Mikey's line sunglasses.gif ), tie defrost and panel vents into the new evaporator, run vacuum lines/reservoir and everything else I'm forgetting. If I'm finished in 3 weeks I will be happy. beerchug.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: JRust Sep 2 2015, 07:21 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 31 2015, 07:57 AM) *

I may try to "sneak" the water lines for the heater up thru the tunnel, though.

Why? Just tap into your hot line to your radiator. Add a T fitting & you have your hot water for heat up front

Posted by: euro911 Sep 2 2015, 07:55 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Sep 2 2015, 06:14 PM) *
... 1st order is to pull the old fresh air/heater box as it will not be needed. Anybody need one?
That's a nice looking under-dash unit.

Does your 'old' fresh air box include the fan unit? ... and does the fan work on all 3 speeds? Mine only works on the medium setting dry.gif

If so, and nobody else NEEDS it, I'll throw my hat in the ring confused24.gif

Posted by: 914forme Sep 2 2015, 08:17 PM

I did not realize these require vac, I thought it used electric for the servos confused24.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 2 2015, 09:19 PM

QUOTE(JRust @ Sep 2 2015, 06:21 PM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 31 2015, 07:57 AM) *

I may try to "sneak" the water lines for the heater up thru the tunnel, though.

Why? Just tap into your hot line to your radiator. Add a T fitting & you have your hot water for heat up front

Good question, Jamie. I want to use the Subaru Heater loop as it was intended but primarily to gain extra volume and to keep hot water out of the pipes unless it's called for. In the next few weeks you'll see the GM 4 port bypass valve I'm using and it only has 1 moving part. It's vacuum actuated as well. I believe I would need 2 tees to tap into those lines; supply/return and the piping takes up valuable real estate. If I use #10 SS braided hose I will have room above the tunnel because of my armrest and console.

QUOTE(euro911 @ Sep 2 2015, 06:55 PM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Sep 2 2015, 06:14 PM) *
... 1st order is to pull the old fresh air/heater box as it will not be needed. Anybody need one?
That's a nice looking under-dash unit.

Does your 'old' fresh air box include the fan unit? ... and does the fan work on all 3 speeds? Mine only works on the medium setting dry.gif

If so, and nobody else NEEDS it, I'll throw my hat in the ring confused24.gif

TY. Probably not. If it does work on all three speeds I wouldn't know it. I can't even hear myself Fart, anymore.

QUOTE(914forme @ Sep 2 2015, 07:17 PM) *

I did not realize these require vac, I thought it used electric for the servos confused24.gif

Steve, the defrost gate/door is vacuum actuated and the heater control valve they ship is vacuum actuated. As I mentioned to Jamie, I am using another heater valve but I will use the vacuum solenoid they provided. I'm thinking I need to add a vacuum reservoir in the engine bay then run a 3mm vacuum line up the tunnel. beerchug.gif

Posted by: mgp4591 Sep 3 2015, 12:20 AM

I looked at the link you provided and at the bottom it looked like they advertised it as a Vintage Air unit- same controls, same price at $345. That's the one or is it a different manufacturer? Looks pretty slick! If you keep the heater valve closed, you shouldn't have any hot water running through your system so unless I'm figuring wrong, you should be able to tap into your hot side radiator plumbing without unnecessary hot water heating up your cabin. You'd eliminate a lot of extra tubing and work if you could, but then you knew that... just trying to help because I'm looking at a similar setup and your work is an inspiration- nice to be able to pick anothers' brain via the Interweb!

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 3 2015, 08:59 AM

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Sep 2 2015, 11:20 PM) *

I looked at the link you provided and at the bottom it looked like they advertised it as a Vintage Air unit- same controls, same price at $345. That's the one or is it a different manufacturer? Looks pretty slick! If you keep the heater valve closed, you shouldn't have any hot water running through your system so unless I'm figuring wrong, you should be able to tap into your hot side radiator plumbing without unnecessary hot water heating up your cabin. You'd eliminate a lot of extra tubing and work if you could, but then you knew that... just trying to help because I'm looking at a similar setup and your work is an inspiration- nice to be able to pick anothers' brain via the Interweb!

It is a Vintage Air unit. They will sell direct at the same list price but you pay shipping. Most of their retail reps sell at list but pay shipping. Maybe I'm confused here but you don't mention a return line either. It does flow THRU it and not TO it, correct? And FWIW, my supply and return lines run in the longs. I would need to T into each line behind the speaker pods then run the drivers side (return in my case) line behind/under the dash. Who knows how it will end up in the end. I guess this is all conjecture until I have a working system in play.

Posted by: crawler Sep 3 2015, 09:30 AM

Did you ever think about using hard lines? You would need a tig welder, but it would be a cleaner looking job. You would lose that ugly big rubber hose,and have nice steel lines.
Lots of A.C. shops can weld the ends on,if you do not own a tig welder.

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 3 2015, 02:45 PM

QUOTE(crawler @ Sep 3 2015, 08:30 AM) *

Did you ever think about using hard lines? You would need a tig welder, but it would be a cleaner looking job. You would lose that ugly big rubber hose,and have nice steel lines.
Lots of A.C. shops can weld the ends on,if you do not own a tig welder.

Another good point and yes, I did. I can't TIG and didn't trust a Silver Solder joint to hold up long term. And, I'm too lazy to make x trips to a AC shop. In the end I decided that running the rubber lines was the prudent action as the $$ saved allowed me to purchase a bead lock tool. Not to mention the elimination of 4 extra connection points if metal lines were used. I do agree that it would have looked sharp w/ metal lines running down the side but ultimately that area is covered by the valance. beerchug.gif

Posted by: mepstein Sep 3 2015, 03:16 PM

I'll buy you a beer if you keep a list of the different fittings and hose sizes, ect. It would be nice to have a paper "kit" saved so just an order or two would have everything ready to start assembly. My shop has the tools but your example would save many hours and dollars. thanks

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 3 2015, 09:12 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 3 2015, 02:16 PM) *

I'll buy you a beer if you keep a list of the different fittings and hose sizes, ect. It would be nice to have a paper "kit" saved so just an order or two would have everything ready to start assembly. My shop has the tools but your example would save many hours and dollars. thanks

Sure. I received the remainder of the fittings tonite. 1st, I need to correct a screw up. I installed the condenser upside down. A 5 min flip was no problem except I need to make another #6 short hose, so additional fittings were ordered. Also busted my old heater box removing it but salvaged 2 important parts that will allow the tie-in of the dash vents and defrost vents to new A/C & Heat. biggrin.gif

Posted by: mgp4591 Sep 3 2015, 09:30 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Sep 3 2015, 08:59 AM) *

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Sep 2 2015, 11:20 PM) *

I looked at the link you provided and at the bottom it looked like they advertised it as a Vintage Air unit- same controls, same price at $345. That's the one or is it a different manufacturer? Looks pretty slick! If you keep the heater valve closed, you shouldn't have any hot water running through your system so unless I'm figuring wrong, you should be able to tap into your hot side radiator plumbing without unnecessary hot water heating up your cabin. You'd eliminate a lot of extra tubing and work if you could, but then you knew that... just trying to help because I'm looking at a similar setup and your work is an inspiration- nice to be able to pick anothers' brain via the Interweb!

It is a Vintage Air unit. They will sell direct at the same list price but you pay shipping. Most of their retail reps sell at list but pay shipping. Maybe I'm confused here but you don't mention a return line either. It does flow THRU it and not TO it, correct? And FWIW, my supply and return lines run in the longs. I would need to T into each line behind the speaker pods then run the drivers side (return in my case) line behind/under the dash. Who knows how it will end up in the end. I guess this is all conjecture until I have a working system in play.

True, it does flow through it when the heater valve is open. So 1 tee on the hot side for incoming and another tee to the cool side for out of the core. At least it would keep it all up front rather than heating up your center console which I've heard from others can be, well, overheating in the cabin. Just putting ideas out there- loving your progress so far!

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 3 2015, 10:25 PM

Where do you get your supplies from?

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 4 2015, 08:47 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 3 2015, 09:25 PM) *

Where do you get your supplies from?

The evap unit was purchased from Summit. Vintage Air has a list of retailers on their website. I chose Summit because I already had an account with them and all of their retailers are the same price anyway. 95% of the Bead Lock fittings and all of the hose came from EBay seller Johnsjoysl. I may have that misspelled but I'll check later. The guys name is John Kusak. A great seller. Although EBay shows a separate shipping charge for each item, John will credit your CC account with the overcharge shipping that occurs on ebay. The Adel clamps were purchased on ebay as well.

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 4 2015, 09:02 AM

Can not find his account. Can you link to a product?

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 4 2015, 09:26 AM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/311324606669?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
This is "one" of his items but it has the link to his store. beerchug.gif

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 4 2015, 10:37 AM

Prices look pretty good! I have been looking at coldhose.com and your guys pricing is nicely cheaper!

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 5 2015, 08:50 PM

Well, today was a full day. With the heater box out that dark recessed area was now an eye sore. I wiped down an area to the left

Attached Image

Attached Image

Then it got good to me so I scrubbed and waxed the old paint

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

With that out of the way I moved on to finish the piping portion. As it turned out I was short one 90 and 2' of #10 hose. headbang.gif I'll just post some pic's as they speak for themselves.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Before these last 2 hoses could be located and punched out the evap unit needed to be located and hung in place and only then can you locate those final firewall or bulkhead fittings. Since it was shipped in a urethane clam shell w/ a flat side biggrin.gif I used the bottom piece as a support then just shimmed beneath that until I was close enough to begin positioning it.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image



Posted by: 76-914 Sep 5 2015, 09:31 PM

And here it is in place. What'da think?

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

I almost shit in my shoes when I first began searching for a way to attach the evaporator. I was sure it was Fab time and I didn't want to cut my Cherry lower dash so I pulled out an old cracked one to fiddle with when I saw it. NO sheeplove.gif cutting or drilling that would ruin a good dash piece. Two of the screws that hold that piece in place lined up with the units support brackets. I just needed to R&R the OEM screws w/ ones 35mm in length and place some steel stand offs beneath the bracket so it could not be tightened against the vinyl. piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif
This is the hole on the far right psg side

Attached Image

And this one is 2 holes down to the drivers side. The 2 brackets supplied are not symmetrical and I'm quite sure I have them inverted from their intended orientation but who gives a stromberg.gif The bracket on the drivers side needed to have a hole drilled 1" off center from the supplied hole but other than that it fits and I'm 6 hr's ahead of the game.

Attached Image

Some piping from the rear

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

I always wondered why my control cable wouldn't slide all the way over shades.gif
No wonder these pieces didn't want to separate. From inside the Drivers side.

Attached Image

and the psg side

gate pressure bowed this one over time

Attached Image

The Electric Kool Aid Assed Test. My big ass fits comfortably. My wife has a ton of leg room but she is only 5'. The red post (between my feet)will be removed when I attach the rear supports.

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 20 2015, 09:23 PM

Wow, 2 weeks since I posted. I usually can't keep my mouth shut that long. I've been moving at a snails pace but it picked up this weekend after I received more materials. One of the things I went back on was to add support to the AC and water lines. Most of the sleeved areas aren't visible.

Attached Image

Attached Image

The heater section is pretty straight forward. The Subaru engine has a separate heater loop that I am using so I won't be tying into the in/out radiator lines. FYI, it allows for a faster warm up in the cabin and a few other engine items as well. I had the 5/8" water lines looped together previously but now that I need that circuit I'm using this GM vacuum actuated 4 port bypass valve. Only one moving part. evilgrin.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

I added this Dorman Vacuum Reservoir that fits in the support arm's groove perfectly.

Attached Image

Then there was the matter of getting the water lines down the tunnel. And there is also a couple of vacuum lines threaded thru that jungle. I changed religion 3 different times during this course of the install but finally found the trick. Both lines run from heater to bypass valve w/o any splices. In this pic you see where the lines pop back out of the tunnel. When all is working and in it's final spot I will cut channels in the urethane foot rest so that surface remains flat and the carpet lays evenly.

Attached Image

I had to clearance the access cover at the front of the tunnel to allow passage of the hoses.

Attached Image

A peek at the lines as the pass beneath the rear access cover.

Attached Image

Exiting out the firewall. These still need metal sleeves where they pass thru.

Attached Image

This is one of the best aspects of this under dash unit that I'm using. It has a separate defrost circuit that I'm going to use. But I needed to use a little Out House Engineering. A little aluminum crudely shaped with a 2" flange riveted in place. Then this piece is pop riveted to the OEM supply elbow which is cannibalized from the OEM air box. So, when I select AC or Heat it will blow from the vents of the under dash unit. And when I select defrost the air will divert to these little units and flow out the defrost vent and/or the OEM fresh air vent. The OEM vents can always be closed to boost the defrost or opened to defrost the door glass. rolleyes.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

The heater lines connected. Wait till you see how the speaker cover even goes back into place, slightly trimmed. It's going to be tight!

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 21 2015, 08:44 AM

After I cleaned the elbows that the aluminum adapters connect with I decided to take a look at the other side. the inside. Before barf.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image


And after

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 21 2015, 02:01 PM

Great work!! Really impressed with some of the fab you did. Like your solution for the defrosters, I was considering cutting them back to the first hole and just using that hole for my setup. I was thinking of using ABS plastic for the cap and plastic welding it then finishing it up with silicone and paint like you did.

Posted by: 914forme Sep 22 2015, 05:28 PM

Kent not sure you answered this but I think Andrew asked also.

Where did you get your condenser at?




Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 22 2015, 06:26 PM

Thx Andy but not AC grade work. Then again I don't have to find a landing spot to fix screw ups. av-943.gif Your skills are showing thru as well. And to all the other guys going this route, I'll have some AC/Heat items to sell cheaply after I'm finished!
Stephan, here is that link http://www.ebay.com/itm/351173823661?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I thought I posted this last nite but it ain't here today sooooooooooo otra vez.

I made this rail cap ( .025 2024 T-3)

Attached Image

Attached Image

To seal this gap on top

Attached Image

Attaching

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 1 2015, 08:20 PM

Well that was fun. Just spent an hour loading and lost it all. God Damnned Explorer. And fucking Firefox likes to stop receiving text input about every 20 seconds so I'm typing away while the cursor just sits there. FUCK< FUCK< FUCK. These next post will be truncated and not more than 5 fucking minutes each. So now I'll get back to how I ran duct to the OEM dash vents from the new AC/Heat system that the God Damned fucking internet has tried to fuck up for me.

The original openings will be used to run the duct from the new unit.

Attached Image

The template used for the base plate and base plate gasket.

Attached Image

Test fit of the base plates before drilling 2" holes in them

Attached Image

Attached Image

Welded up. Joints were sealed with Wurth's before paint

Attached Image

A quick test fit

Attached Image

Attached Image


Posted by: 76-914 Oct 1 2015, 08:30 PM

Primed

Attached Image

Cut a couple of gaskets

Attached Image

Quick couple of coats

Attached Image

Painted piece fitted in place

Attached Image

Cleaned up the old rain tray and repurposed it.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 914forme Oct 1 2015, 08:37 PM

Looks like a great solution. "Cleaned up the old rain tray and repurposed it." For confused24.gif poke.gif popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 1 2015, 08:51 PM

Right side fitted up and installed in place

Attached Image

A pic before the tank goes back in

Attached Image

Driver's side ducting from below

Attached Image

This is where the duct's connect on the unit. Very close to the metal but it clears.

Attached Image

You ever have a good idea that really wasn't? I decided to fit the hose to this elbow prior to re-connecting the elbow to the dash panel. I wasted an hour trying to start the upper left nut. The next day I removed the vent which gave me a bit more room to start the nut. Took a few minutes to reconnect the duct to the elbow but much easier this way. The drivers side is a snap.

Attached Image

Center shot all buttoned up. One of these pic's somewhere shows the ugly blue wires cleaned up.

Attached Image

Right side

Attached Image

The renewed rain tray

Attached Image

Left side

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 1 2015, 08:56 PM

The ugly blue wires concealed in 1/4" loom

Attached Image

Hopefully the front trunk area is now complete.

Attached Image

And only 8 items left on my checklist. piratenanner.gif

Attached Image


Posted by: Andyrew Oct 1 2015, 09:06 PM

Fantastic progress! Love the fab work. Great creativity as usual!

Posted by: 914forme Oct 2 2015, 05:34 AM

Oh so I get it, just your rain water collector system.

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 2 2015, 09:40 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 1 2015, 08:06 PM) *

Fantastic progress! Love the fab work. Great creativity as usual!

Hey, Thx Andy. BTW, You've got a custom dash, right? If so, I have some defrost vents left over from this. If interested I'll post pic's and dimensions. Actually there is less fab work if re-using some of these items albeit, modified a tad. Besides, I really like the look of the 914 and will try to keep it looking like a 914. wub.gif

QUOTE(914forme @ Oct 2 2015, 04:34 AM) *

Oh so I get it, just your rain water collector system.

Yes and no, Stephan. That aluminum cover (.050") on the bottom is thick enough to accept a shutter. Another place to exhaust hot air from the radiator if I need the extra cooling capacity when the AC is running. If needed I'll cut one in. Since it was cannibalized it removes quite easily. 2 screws and it's out. beerchug.gif

Posted by: mepstein Oct 2 2015, 09:47 AM

Heat and.A/C in a 914-6. Perfect.

Posted by: FourBlades Oct 2 2015, 01:36 PM


What an excellent build... first.gif

That is some amazing work.

John

Posted by: 914forme Oct 2 2015, 01:50 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Oct 2 2015, 11:40 AM) *

Yes and no, Stephan. That aluminum cover (.050") on the bottom is thick enough to accept a shutter. Another place to exhaust hot air from the radiator if I need the extra cooling capacity when the AC is running. If needed I'll cut one in. Since it was cannibalized it removes quite easily. 2 screws and it's out. beerchug.gif


dry.gif hi pressure zone, might not work like you expect. But Kent at times I think you are crazier than I am, so i'll sit back and let you work ahead. popcorn[1].gif after all you and Chris are like my R&D department.

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 3 2015, 09:48 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Oct 2 2015, 08:47 AM) *

Heat and.A/C in a 914-6. Perfect.

My goal is a "Gentleman's 914" biggrin.gif

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Oct 2 2015, 12:36 PM) *

What an excellent build... first.gif

That is some amazing work.

John

Wow, thanks John. Means a lot coming from you. I followed your amazing build which was much more complicated than mine.

So moving along I started on the new console gage panel. I'm down to 2 gage's and an acc plug so the cut out for the AC won't affect me.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

And then these came in. Thanks Dustin and thanks Uncle Dave for the referral. 8 days turn around including shipping! Stellar service! Now I can tie in the evap. I didn't want to lose the nitrogen charge (as it was shipped) by taking the caps off unless I could connect everything to avoid moisture.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Almost forgot to install this relay headbang.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image


Posted by: 76-914 Oct 3 2015, 09:56 PM

All the hoses are tied in and it got a little crowded. The red circles are ends of the same hose that loops up/down to make connection. Same with the blue except it loops down/up. Look at the 3rd circle in the shadow and you see it. The urethane foot rest will be channeled to bed the hoses flush, I hope. biggrin.gif

Attached Image

After the AC is working I need to wrap some more of that sticky black rubber around the exposed metal of the pressure (small) line.

Attached Image

And the two heater lines on top of the AC ports.

Attached Image

Freon later this week. I test the heater and defrosters tomorrow. beerchug.gif Kent

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 10 2015, 05:47 PM

I was able to button it up this week; several times. mad.gif Sorting out gremlins and making things fit. smash.gif sawzall-smiley.gif The defroster actually blows. I thought it was pretty good then noticed it was on low. Yeah, it works. I did manage to sheeplove.gif a few hours away chasing what I presumed was a vacuum leak only to discover that I needed to turn the blower on before it would energize the vacuum solenoid to the heater valve. headbang.gif I found that I have the lines to the heater crossed at the by pass valve but it will just have to stay that way until after the G&R meet manana. evilgrin.gif

Here's a pic of the footrest after a little grooving for the hose. Since I completed the freon connections at the condenser I was able to finally run the condensate drain. Previously I wasn't sure what would end up where and yadi, yadi. It exits almost in the corner. Off 'bout 1".

Attached Image

Here is why. I wanted to place it exactly in the corner but found the jack point piece would be compromised. To miss drilling thru the meat of that piece meant moving appx 1.5" further away from the corner or................drilling the hole dead center of the cone. The piece will push up when the jack point is used too.

Attached Image

Trimmed the speaker pod to fit. It wasn't primo before and it damn sure ain't now but it tidies the area up once in place.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

I punched a hole in my new carpet (thx Mikey) for the condensate drain. sad.gif Sacrifices were inevitable.

Attached Image

Just a few pics of the inside after everything was back together. This coming week I should be able to charge and freeze. I hope, I hope, I hope. So many things to go wrong. wacko.gif I can see the light at the end of the tunnel getting brighter. beerchug.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

The left panel ended up getting a trim where the new duct crosses over.


Attached Image

Attached Image





Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 16 2015, 10:02 AM

I hit a little hitch with my AC so I decided to jump into installing my new dash. It took a bit of "self persuasion" before I could begin to remove everything I had installed in the previous week but "asi es la vida". I used the thread in the Lapuwali Forum and found it quite useful, however I believe that the removal of the glove box and the related "dreaded door spring" wasn't necessary and will confirm once the new dash top is installed tomorrow. The only nut that was difficult was the one on the far right side facing the front. It can be removed with a 13mm crows foot or heat up and bend a cheap HF wrench to fit. I'll shoot a pic of this for the re-installation.

Out with the old


Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

As I was fidgeting with the installation one of the plastic studs pop out. Got me to cussing a bit but in hind site I'm glad it happened. It was easy enough to thread the stud back into the metal threaded piece inside the dash. I decided to check how well the plastic nut would thread on incase I had boogered the threads. blink.gif I couldn't get ANY of the plastic studs to accept the OEM plastic nuts. confused24.gif OK. I then tried a 13mm metal nut. Same thing. WTF.gif Since I have the patience of a charging Rhinoceros I decided to try this instead. I used a piece of threaded rod I had setting around and cut 9- 7/8" long pieces then set them 5/16" deep into a bit of silicone to lock. Don't set them any deeper than 5/16". This leaves 9/16" exposed. Same as the OEM. Don't throw away the old plastic studs. You might need one like I did. On mine, the far left stud would not thread in. I found the metal threaded piece was "hammered" confused24.gif . I felt the metal tab might dislodge if I tried to tap it so I simply re-installed (read jammed) one plastic stud. Granted it was and is cross threaded into the dash but I don't see removing it in the near future. BTW, don't forget to run the plastic stud thru an 8mm die several times to resize to accept the plastic OEM nut.
I want to point out that the quality of this piece is very good and I expected some "teething issues" as mine is one of the first produced. Hope this helps some of you guys. beerchug.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image







Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. Oct 16 2015, 10:51 AM

Nice work! beerchug.gif Dang your old dash was CRACKED!

Posted by: euro911 Oct 16 2015, 11:40 AM

Let me see if I've got this right - the new dash came with new studs? ... just the wrong size/pitch? confused24.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 16 2015, 05:35 PM

Yeah Chris, It looked like hammered dog stromberg.gif but thanks to Mark W. it will look a lot nicer now. The one in my white car is perfect; go figure. confused24.gif

Mark, they are pieces cut from an 8mm plastic thd rod, I believe. I say that because the length of each varies slightly. Most likely some Chinese product that got out of spec somewhere in production. I checked to see if they were 5/16" but they aren't. I did however use 5/16" because it "locked" into the shallow threaded receptacle a little tighter than 8mm did. ps, one can also use 5/16" brass closet bolts cut to length if you go 5/16". Brass is easier to cut!

Posted by: euro911 Oct 16 2015, 06:06 PM

... or just get some cheeeeep Chinese M8 nuts confused24.gif

laugh.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 17 2015, 05:26 PM

Hardly noteworthy but glad it is holding. As I mentioned earlier; I don't know stromberg.gif from Apple Butter about AC but I'm learning. I could pull it down but it would leak down almost immediately. I put some dye down the hose before tapping into the Freon can and there it was staring me in the face. The O-ring on the OEM fitting (circled in red) at the compressor was hard as a rock. Missed that slap.gif . The other leak was on the "New" crimp fitting (circled in red as well). Do you see the error? I didn't either until now. Look at the ferrule. Notice the indentations from the crimp aren't as pronounced as the fitting to the right of it? Yep, I crimped a #8 fitting with #10 dies. headbang.gif

Attached Image

Posted by: Mikey914 Oct 17 2015, 07:56 PM

I tried to match the thread pitch with the OEM. We will now include matched nuts with these.

Posted by: euro911 Oct 17 2015, 09:31 PM

I had a feeling that waiting to ship would have some benefits happy11.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 18 2015, 04:24 PM

FWIW, Marks Dash Top appears to be an improvement over OEM as it is much more substantial. When each are held side by side, the OEM dash feels like a cheap imitation.

In other news: I finally got off my Ass and completed the VSS circuit. W/O that signal the ECU would completely cut out until I let off the throttle and pushed down on it again. It only happened if my throttle position remained steady for extended periods of time. It first raised it's ugly head on the trip to WCR2015. I almost stromberg.gif myself but soon realized how to manage it. It was never a problem in town as the peddle get moved a lot. Tom at the EZ30 board enlightened me so I tried it. In the process I discovered that I had connected the VSS signal wire to the ECU but failed to energize it. IOW's, I didn't connect the 12v or ground wire. I started it as I was rolling down the drive and the idle shot up. I stopped and said WTF.gif waited a few seconds and drove down the street in 2nd while it idled high. By the 3rd stop sign the computer accepted the new signal but something else cleared up which was a welcome bonus. Don't know why but the popping/backfire, which I had always attributed to an open and very short exhaust, went away. Sounds Bad Ass during down shifts now. I don't know if it cured the cut out on the hi way yet so I'll cross my fingers until I get it on the open road again. If that was it I see no reason not to install Cruise Control. evilgrin.gif Don't anybody tell Pat Garvey. stirthepot.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 18 2015, 05:05 PM

Damn, all this criticism of Marks product yet I forget to post some pic's of it installed. Those of you sitting on the fence should move on this. wub.gif Anyway, here it is installed. Onward thru the Fog!

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: rnellums Oct 18 2015, 05:06 PM

Kent,

Just as a double check, that VSS signal is coming from the 3 pole sender on the passengers side of the transmission right? I want to make sure I've got it hooked up properly!

-Ross

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 18 2015, 05:28 PM

Yep. GB to A1 and the other 2 are +/-. I couldn't find my wires listed, which are G, W & Br so I measured the dia of both and deduced the larger was +. Lucked out and got it right. Yours might be Gb=VS, Y=+ switched & B= -. How many miles you got on her, now Ross?

Posted by: rnellums Oct 18 2015, 05:51 PM

Can't say for sure since I switched back to a stock-looking speedo(using the subie speed sensor) 3000 miles in, but probably close to 6k now. Only 22mpg on the last tank though, too many redline pulls for good fuel economy smile.gif! II got to drive rays conversion today, and I have to say, that hydraulic clutch is silky smooth. I'm going to be switching over this winter for sure.

Posted by: euro911 Oct 18 2015, 06:19 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Oct 18 2015, 04:05 PM) *
Damn, all this criticism of Marks product yet I forget to post some pic's of it installed. Those of you sitting on the fence should move on this. wub.gif Anyway, here it is installed. Onward thru the Fog!
Not criticizing Mark's products, just mentioned that my dash might be delivered with the 'patch' when it gets shipped shades.gif

I've spent thousands for a lot of awesome products that Mark makes available to us aktion035.gif ... I'm trying to get him to expand into the early 911/912 arena too idea.gif

biggrin.gif

Posted by: Chris H. Oct 18 2015, 06:57 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Oct 18 2015, 05:24 PM) *

FWIW, Marks Dash Top appears to be an improvement over OEM as it is much more substantial. When each are held side by side, the OEM dash feels like a cheap imitation.

In other news: I finally got off my Ass and completed the VSS circuit. W/O that signal the ECU would completely cut out until I let off the throttle and pushed down on it again. It only happened if my throttle position remained steady for extended periods of time. It first raised it's ugly head on the trip to WCR2015. I almost stromberg.gif myself but soon realized how to manage it. It was never a problem in town as the peddle get moved a lot. Tom at the EZ30 board enlightened me so I tried it. In the process I discovered that I had connected the VSS signal wire to the ECU but failed to energize it. IOW's, I didn't connect the 12v or ground wire. I started it as I was rolling down the drive and the idle shot up. I stopped and said WTF.gif waited a few seconds and drove down the street in 2nd while it idled high. By the 3rd stop sign the computer accepted the new signal but something else cleared up which was a welcome bonus. Don't know why but the popping/backfire, which I had always attributed to an open and very short exhaust, went away. Sounds Bad Ass during down shifts now. I don't know if it cured the cut out on the hi way yet so I'll cross my fingers until I get it on the open road again. If that was it I see no reason not to install Cruise Control. evilgrin.gif Don't anybody tell Pat Garvey. stirthepot.gif


I knew it! Getting this done in the next few days. I have some popping on decel which I also thought was my exhaust. That plus the other VSS symptoms...wth am I waiting for confused24.gif ?

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 19 2015, 09:17 PM

Yep. You heard it here first. And just in time for Winter. Our coolest day in month's. Appropriate. dry.gif All joking aside, I couldn't believe it when I saw the gages come to life and the compressor kick in w/o being jumped. I'm happier than a two petered Billy Goat. I'm sure I will have teething pains to address but this entire process has been a mind bender for my little brain. I knew "0" about AC a few month's back and thx to the internet I now have AC/Heat/Defrost/heated seats. I may need to "open up" the front a bit or change radiators or increase fender ducting or...........who knows. I had the console in and out 6 times since I thought I was finished. mad.gif No matter. At this point the hard work is behind me and only a few mods in front of me. I suspect a few of those will come as next summers heat begins. Can't wait for Mark's roll bar trim to complete my interior. smile.gif

Posted by: Chris H. Oct 20 2015, 11:12 AM

So working HEAT and AC? Dang. Might have to change the model number on that car. How's it working?

Posted by: A&P Mech Oct 20 2015, 11:40 AM

Sir, you are my hero!

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 20 2015, 02:05 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Oct 20 2015, 10:12 AM) *

So working HEAT and AC? Dang. Might have to change the model number on that car. How's it working?

We'll see. av-943.gif Seriously, it's too early to say. Haven't driven around town with it yet. Also, I need a day at 90F + to dial it in. It was only 80F yesterday and my hi pressure side was at 190 which is just about right if you follow the std. formula of "ambient temp x 2 + 15% to 20%. IOW, don't want to Jinx myself by talking it up.

QUOTE(A&P Mech @ Oct 20 2015, 10:40 AM) *

Sir, you are my hero!

You need to be more selective in your choices. shades.gif You should do this. It can be done in a weekend for appx $1000 if your Andrew or 2 weekends for the average Joe. It's not that difficult if you have some direction. Mine took a long time because I had no idea of what, how and on n on. I ended up with plenty of legroom which surprised me. Onward thru the Fog. beerchug.gif

Posted by: JRust Oct 21 2015, 07:24 PM

Well done my friend pray.gif . I have dreams of finishing mine. Right now I am wishing my heating unit didn't get taken apart. As a donor that we didn't use anyway. Would much rather have that in my car right now sad.gif . Still sweet to see yours up & running. Will make the long drives in heat so much nicer

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 26 2015, 01:55 PM

I couldn't get a reply from any of our resident electrical specialist (in the "Electrical Question" thread) so I moved on without 'em. I may have stumped them idea.gif This is my situation. I wired my radiators to have a 2 speed function. Ground one of the 2 neg wires and it runs on low speed. If you ground both then it runs on high speed. On the other side is the ECU which normally controls the fan speeds. It also does this thru neg switching. There are 3 wires coming out of the ECU that "supposedly" control the fans. I was a little cautious in the beginning and twisted all 3 together hoping it worked. Well it has but now I want to see if I can determine which of these 3 switching wires does what and when? Make sense so far? I made a temp panel & mounted 3 LED lites in it and placed it so that I can see it in the rear view mirror when driving. My challenge was to isolate each lite from the circuit or all 3 would illuminate at the same time no matter which wire was active. IOW, they will all share a common (+) so if they also share a (-), which they do via the ground connection to the fans, they will all lite up. I placed a small switching diode on each of the 3 wires between the ECU & the junction of the 3 wires. Then I tapped into each wire with a (-) lead going to it's corresponding lite. Hopefully, I'll find that one is low, one is high and the 3rd is confused24.gif . Possibly on the AC circuit and controlled by AC pressures or just the activation of the AC compressor??? Who knows. My only concern in all of this is there can be issues when diodes are run in parallel. I'm hoping that I don't get any "bounce back" since I'm on the neg side. I won't know until I drive it a short little while. rolleyes.gif I did fuse the 12v+ connection to the LED's just in case.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Dec 18 2015, 10:21 PM

My new lift inspired me to replace my noisy and unacceptably low exhaust system. By using SS my product line triples and allows me to reconfigure the existing system thereby shortening it and allowing the use of a normal muffler. biggrin.gif

Here you can see it runs beneath the engine cradle giving it just 3" ground clearance! blink.gif

Attached Image

An entire side with the whopping 10" Glass Pack. At the time, there wasn't room for anything else.

Attached Image

This is the piece that should allow me to change things around and shorten it up. A 2" 2r 180' or U Bend.

Attached Image

The 2" is too small so I will have to add a piece to fill the oval flange.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

This piece will need to have one end expanded at the muffler shop manana.

Attached Image

I ended up with 1/2" clearance between the engine cradle and the drop arm when fully extended.

Attached Image

Here's the end that will need cut, expanded and welded to complete the sharp turn 90'.

Attached Image

If this works I'll order the pieces for the other side and the mufflers and flanges. Oh, almost forgot to say thanks to Mike (Mueller) for the SS wire. I owe you one. beerchug.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Dec 23 2015, 06:41 PM

WCR convinced me that I did not have enough space when traveling with my wife. I bought the luggage rack from Steve a few months back. I still need to fab the proper brackets which are on the underside. Picked the lid up a couple of weeks ago from Ian, IIRC. The lid was from the 914 used in the "Wheeler Dealer" episode. Not that I give a Rat's Arse about that. The CF Wrap from Amazon for <$18. It's only use will be when we travel and I couldn't see dropping a bunch of $$ on this project or drilling holes in my existing lid.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. Dec 23 2015, 10:07 PM

Like it! Did you get the exhaust finished?

Posted by: 76-914 Dec 24 2015, 10:49 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Dec 23 2015, 08:07 PM) *

Like it! Did you get the exhaust finished?

Waiting on the muffler. Once I have it in hand and if it works out I'll order the same stuff for the other side. I learned on the last system. If I order for both sides and I made a mistake then I've made it twice. sad.gif Plus, Summit has free shipping on orders over $99 so I'll keep the orders right above $99. First time around I ordered everything at once and ended up returning a few items and I ended up paying additional shipping charges because I didn't have enough for free shipping. Live and learn. Are you working on yours since Winter arrived??

Posted by: Chris H. Dec 24 2015, 11:23 AM

Yeah it's been a mild winter. Been busy but hopefully soon. Getting some new tools for Christmas. Will be dropping the engine soon and fixing the leak at the oil pump. Also want to flip the manifold if I can. I found a stock intake on e-bay (finally!).

Posted by: NeunEinVier Dec 24 2015, 01:48 PM

QUOTE(76%26%23045%3B914 @ Oct 16 2015, 05:35 PM) *

Mark, they are pieces cut from an 8mm plastic thd rod, I believe. I say that because the length of each varies slightly. Most likely some Chinese product that got out of spec somewhere in production. I checked to see if they were 5/16" but they aren't.


M8 threads come in 1.0mm and 1.25mm thread pitches, maybe they just happened to use the wrong pitch.

Posted by: 76-914 Dec 25 2015, 01:33 PM

The muffler arrived yesterday and I was able to test fit it. The 4"x9" oval shape works. That's the good news. The bad is that I probably won't use this muffler. It's about as straight thru as the existing Glasspacks. mad.gif No problem. The shape was my main concern. My concerns were threefold. 1st was quite, then clearance and finally use the existing cutouts on the rear fairing.
If you think the U fitting weld joint isn't square your right. It was necessary to center up with the "channel" the muffler will sit in.

Attached Image

Attached Image

These flanges will move in front of the stub axles for added clearance but they actually clear as they sit. I just don't see any sense in crowding the axles if I don't need to.

Attached Image

The strap on the left side of the muffler will be R&R'd during assembly. Managed to hit the old cutout's in the rear fairing. biggrin.gif

Attached Image

That 1/4" wood spacer between the muffler and rear sway bar is there until I spot weld the muffler up.

Attached Image

You can see the ground clearance difference between the old system on the left and the new system on the right. piratenanner.gif Now that I know it will fit, it is ime to order the parts for the left side.

Attached Image

Posted by: rnellums Dec 25 2015, 01:50 PM

I went through all this too. The relatively large single exit limits your mandrel bend angle. I like how you ran the piepes under the axle. Did you run 2" all the way back?

Posted by: 76-914 Dec 25 2015, 10:40 PM

QUOTE(rnellums @ Dec 25 2015, 11:50 AM) *

I went through all this too. The relatively large single exit limits your mandrel bend angle. I like how you ran the piepes under the axle. Did you run 2" all the way back?

Yeh Ross, it's 2" all the way. .5" clearance between axle and exhaust. I'll probably wrap the u joint and 90 to cut down on heat.

Posted by: rnellums Dec 26 2015, 04:40 AM

I had mine internally and externally ceramic coated and it really seemed to help. The pipes hardly seem hot while running and cost <100$ for my entire system.

Posted by: 76-914 Dec 26 2015, 08:50 AM

QUOTE(rnellums @ Dec 26 2015, 02:40 AM) *

I had mine internally and externally ceramic coated and it really seemed to help. The pipes hardly seem hot while running and cost <100$ for my entire system.

Was it Jet Hot Coating or do you have a link?

Posted by: rnellums Dec 29 2015, 10:40 AM

I think the powder coater used Cerakote, I got the satin black coating as the aluminum engine has enough bling by itself!


Posted by: 76-914 Jan 2 2016, 08:14 PM

I found this after a New Years Day run in the mountains. It also sheeplove.gif me at WCR and I thought the clamps would stop the rubbing but evidently not.

Attached Image

Time to stop this stromberg.gif and bring everything inside. I did this on the other side originally. But I got cute with the drivers side and it didn't work so on to sawzall-smiley.gif

Attached Image

Trim piece and a quick test fit. smash.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Welded in and painted

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

And Presto. I should have done this earlier but some times I convince myself that something is too much of a PITA and prolong the misery. shades.gif

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 4 2016, 05:25 PM

I forgot the member that originally posted on Dallas Coley's work but I sure want to thank him. "That" member, not to be confused with "That guy", recently posted he had Dallas refinish his license plate so I thought "What the Heck" and called Dallas. He said that he could indeed refinish license plate frames so I sent him this one....

Attached Image

And $70 later (total incl shpg) I receive this, Dallas does good work and for those looking, I'd suggest you give Dallas a try. BTW, he has very good communication skills.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 28 2016, 08:58 PM

It took about 5 min's to realize I hated my new mufflers. They were almost the opposite of the 4"x10" Glass Packs I had been running. The Glass Packs were loud as Hell when under load but had a sweet note at cruise. The 3 chambered MagnaFlows were quieter under load but louder at cruise + they produced a terrible drone. mad.gif So just for shits and grins I stuck the glass packs inline on the exhaust stub outs. I should have taken a pic. Looked like a Hill Billy mod. lol-2.gif But guess what? It now produced exactly the sound I was looking for but how to do this? idea.gif Bob (BIGKAT) had tried to tell me this a year ago but I didn't think there was room. Once again I was wrong as you can see in these 2 pic's. Just needed to use a couple of 90's, shorten my cable shift mount 1.5" and those glass packs fit right in.

Attached Image

Attached Image

I had to weld in some stub outs after the 2 glass packs were stuck together.

Attached Image

I added anther couple of flange sets so I could remove the new addition to service shifter attach points and cables.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Added a little insulation for heat barrier.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

This is what I ended up with and the Dreaded Drone is gone. piratenanner.gif I'm running without a fairing for now but will probably add one later. confused24.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: rightpedal Jan 29 2016, 08:12 AM

I totally dig on the new exhaust. I'm a sucker for the center exit. Summit has a fully welded muffler that I run on everything. Its cheap, sounds good under power, and real quiet in cruse conditions.
They probably cost me a little power over a chambered muffler but I don't really care.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/summit-racing-fully-welded-turbo-mufflers

Steve

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 29 2016, 08:31 AM

I wonder what that setup would sound like on a stockish t-4 running heat exchangers. Low cost alternative to the systems currently out there. Looks cool. Looking forward to the YouTube sound bite if you post one.

Posted by: 914forme Jan 30 2016, 09:01 AM

Thank you for the info Kent beer.gif , new setup looks good. So crap, Looks like I'll be running a rear Valance also. Mufflers hand down to far, time to dig mine up, and get to work, just when I thought that area was all done. headbang.gif

I am glad you found a solution to your issue, and where willing to share it once again.

Posted by: thieuster Jan 30 2016, 12:10 PM

Any chance of a vid with sound? It looks very, very promising!

Menno

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 30 2016, 04:53 PM

Thanks guys. I don't have a GoPro so I stuck my camera on the dash. Sound quality isn't great but it covers most driving styles and you'll get an idea. The top is off so there is wind noise. sad.gif https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh-ClYj9LQ8&feature=youtu.be

Posted by: euro911 Jan 30 2016, 06:12 PM

Sounds good to me smile.gif

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 30 2016, 09:19 PM

thumb3d.gif Nailed it. WAY quieter than before.

Posted by: jimkelly Jan 30 2016, 09:24 PM

wow... sounds great!!

Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 31 2016, 12:24 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jan 30 2016, 03:53 PM) *

Thanks guys. I don't have a GoPro so I stuck my camera on the dash. Sound quality isn't great but it covers most driving styles and you'll get an idea. The top is off so there is wind noise. sad.gif https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh-ClYj9LQ8&feature=youtu.be

From what I can hear it sounds good but you're right, the quality isn't the best. Could you take a shot from the back with you starting up and give us a throttle goose or two?Maybe even hold a higher rpm for a bit at the speed it used to drone on you?

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 31 2016, 08:33 AM

You should have someone record a drive by @ around 5k rpm. No valance needed. You're a clever fellow. A bit of an extension on the outlets, just short of 'banging your shins', would look good too.

Posted by: Mr.Nobody Mar 4 2016, 01:03 AM

Just read through the entire thread. Awesome info. Thanks for documenting everything.

Hope to see the car someday. I'm actually just south of you. I'm in SD, but my 914 is in Fallbrook.

Great job on your car beerchug.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 4 2016, 10:57 AM

Well thanks but you can ditch what I said about radiators and go this route if you do a conversion. The Sirocco radiator was fine unless you wanted to race uphill in 95F weather, add an AC or tax it in any way. IOW, it was minimal. Given others recent change over to the Celica GT version, I hopped aboard. It is a dual core unit that fits quite well in the space allotted. Price was $167 shipped to my front door. I'm a little skeptical of the fans that came with it but we shall see.
The first step was to build a frame to hold the new radiator and condenser. I won't bore you with the dimensions.

Attached Image

You can see the rubber shocks in place that the radiator sits upon. These were pulled off the donor car 2 years ago, removed from the OEM bracket and added to this steel frame.

Attached Image

Next the frame is welded at the bottom to the trunk floor. At this stage the frame is semi-ridged as it is attached only at the bottom. The top will be supported by a re-enforced lid. Note the foam tape in place to serve as a seal.

Attached Image

Now the radiator is fitted onto the frame and sits upon the lower rubber shocks. The upper rubber shocks have been added at this point as well. Again, these were removed from the donor car and the OEM bracket was cut to fit and painted.

Attached Image

The condenser is test fitted and the C shaped stand-offs are added to the top. These will have plate nuts for the lid to screw into and hold the radiator firmly in place and more importantly, to hold the radiator tightly against the seal on the frame.

Attached Image

Attached Image

The 3/4" square tube is added, next to the stand-offs, that will have a rubber seal strip and complete the seal from lid to radiator. (It's also shown 2 pic's back.)

Attached Image

And as it looks once buttoned up. I'm going to run this set up a few weeks w/o the condenser then re-install it to see how temps will vary. More later. beerchug.gif

Attached Image

Posted by: Andyrew Mar 4 2016, 01:11 PM

Looks great!!

What size hoses did you go with?

Posted by: Chris H. Mar 4 2016, 05:34 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Mar 4 2016, 01:11 PM) *

Looks great!!

What size hoses did you go with?


Guess I better order the 1.25 eh Kent biggrin.gif ? You ready for it? If you want to try the existing setup first that's totally cool.

Your radiator support it AWESOME man. Nice work. I have literally the exact same radiator setup. You'll love it.

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 4 2016, 05:50 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Mar 4 2016, 11:11 AM) *

Looks great!!

What size hoses did you go with?

Thx Andy. The hose size is still up in the air. I need to get this set up running, compare notes then I'll decide. It may not be necessary. Bob (BigKat83) is running the same size hoses albeit a different route and a larger radiator than my old radiator, w/o a hitch. However, I'm not sure if he spools it up and keeps it there. That is when I experience the temp rising. So, if what I believe to be a cavitation problem persists and/or the temps won't stay in range without "fan action" when rolling then I'll run 1 1/4" beneath the car.

EDIT: Just read your post Chris. I'll know in the next week to 10 days. Have 2 birthdays this week so I may not be ready this weekend. sad.gif Did you get to work on Blue this weekend? beerchug.gif

Posted by: Chris H. Mar 4 2016, 07:56 PM

Yeah no rush at all. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't holding you up. I say try it how it is. Probably be fine.

I'll be working on mine this weekend for sure. Hope to get that engine out.

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 6 2016, 09:46 PM

I was able to squeeze in a quick run this evening after reconnecting the hoses and topping off the coolant. The new radiator added about 1 qt to the cooling system capacity. I let it idle about 10 min. and the Subie factory gage was approaching the mid point i.e. operating temp, when I pulled out of the garage. I drove around the hood for 10 min's (<40mpn & 55F) and the needle never moved nor did the fans kick on. Ran it up to 55mph and the fans kick on. Drop to 40 and they go off, and so on.
This is the 1st noticeable improvement. I will pull the fan's fuse before the next run to see what happens to the temps at 55mph+. Either the sensor cut in / cut out is not compatible with this system, in which case I'll go to an after market sensor, or it's time to order some 1 1/4". When the OLD radiator was installed it took several minutes for the fans to shut down after they came on. As stated above, they only came on above 55mph tonite. They also would kick in on the hi way quite often with the old radiator in place. I may find that this isn't an "and/or" scenario but an and/and scenario. More later. beerchug.gif

Posted by: 914forme Mar 7 2016, 11:56 AM

Sounds like great progress.

I am going 1-3/4" on cold side 1-1/2" on hot side. There is enough room on the EG to go full 2", but 1-3/4" seems like it should function just fine.

Can't wait to see your results. popcorn[1].gif Might make me change my mind.


Posted by: 76-914 Mar 9 2016, 09:12 PM

Just noticed your question Andrew. 7/8 & 3/4".

Today I drove with the fans fuses pulled. I drove around the "hood" for 10-15 mins w/normal stop n go. OAT was 75F and speeds were < 45mph. Engine temp stayed centered. I then hit the Wine Country back roads for another 30 mins. OAT 75F, speeds < 62mph, engine temps still centered. AHAAH I thought those fans were running too much and now I know they were.
All this thought about changing my cooling system began when I installed a light to tell me when the fans were running. I noticed they came on (and off) when on the hi way. The temps were always centered but damn it, those fans shouldn't have been on. I also noticed that if I stopped then started the engine the fans did not come back on, although they had been running 10 seconds before???
So the cut in/cut out factory set points do not appear to be the best set up for my system. Looks like an adjustable fan controller is in my future. I should be able to dial it in quickly as I know what the temp gage should read.

Next test hop I plan to run some realistic hi way speeds 70-80mph with a bit of higher RPM driving to test for 2 things. Both were mentioned in an article that George posted in Chris' thread. One is cavitation the other is high pump head pressure. More later.

Posted by: Chris H. Mar 9 2016, 09:57 PM

I ditched my ECU fan controls. Never ran right for some reason. Installed the Derale 16759. It has an AC override circuit. Very easy to wire up to a switch if you want to run it continuously too. It's about 99% less complicated and only requires one relay which is included. The initial factory setting is WAY low on the Derale BTW. Kicked on at like 170 or something. Easy to adjust though.

Posted by: 914forme Mar 10 2016, 04:16 PM

You can also look at the http://derale.com//products/electric-fans/fan-controllers/pwm/pwm-fan-controller-push-in-probe-detail

It is a bit more, 65 Amp capacity, and A/C override. Big difference is it controls fan speed so the fans are only turning at a high speed when the need to be. This reduces noise and amperage loads.

Derail makes some nice stuff.

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 11 2016, 08:34 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Mar 9 2016, 07:57 PM) *

I ditched my ECU fan controls. Never ran right for some reason. Installed the Derale 16759. It has an AC override circuit. Very easy to wire up to a switch if you want to run it continuously too. It's about 99% less complicated and only requires one relay which is included. The initial factory setting is WAY low on the Derale BTW. Kicked on at like 170 or something. Easy to adjust though.

I was reading the negative reviews on this model and decided that I should go w/ an upper line model. Then I noticed the same complaints re: models that are 2-3 times as much. That's when it occurred to me that the problems with any of these units is most likely theINSTALLER. More especially, those that were received DOA. One guy said he had 2 dead ones in a row. Riiiiiiiiight. Notice he ordered another brand after that. One with pictures instead of words. lol-2.gif Think I'll try one of these! Did you get that engine out last weekend? beerchug.gif

QUOTE(914forme @ Mar 10 2016, 02:16 PM) *

You can also look at the http://derale.com//products/electric-fans/fan-controllers/pwm/pwm-fan-controller-push-in-probe-detail

It is a bit more, 65 Amp capacity, and A/C override. Big difference is it controls fan speed so the fans are only turning at a high speed when the need to be. This reduces noise and amperage loads.

Derail makes some nice stuff.

Yea Stephen, I would go with this but it is overkill for me. I did like the manual override feature, though. If your running dual fans and want an adjustable model the field quickly drops from over 50 units to just a couple of units. The variable speed feature is neat but I'm hoping my fans won't be required so much that I need a feature like that. The fans that came with this unit are only 80 watt ea. (80/12=6.66amps ea.).

Posted by: Andyrew Mar 11 2016, 09:53 AM

Im going to be running the Davies Craig water pump and LCD control panel, it circulates both the water pump and fans perfectlg for speed and timing to maintain the desired temperature.

I got both for ~320 shipped from australia. Theres a link to the ebay auction/seller in my thread, ill get it in a bit.

Posted by: rnellums Mar 11 2016, 10:23 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Mar 11 2016, 08:53 AM) *

Im going to be running the Davies Craig water pump and LCD control panel, it circulates both the water pump and fans perfectlg for speed and timing to maintain the desired temperature.

I got both for ~320 shipped from australia. Theres a link to the ebay auction/seller in my thread, ill get it in a bit.

This is very interesting!

Posted by: Chris H. Mar 11 2016, 10:30 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Mar 11 2016, 08:34 AM) *


I was reading the negative reviews on this model and decided that I should go w/ an upper line model. Then I noticed the same complaints re: models that are 2-3 times as much. That's when it occurred to me that the problems with any of these units is most likely theINSTALLER. More especially, those that were received DOA. One guy said he had 2 dead ones in a row. Riiiiiiiiight. Notice he ordered another brand after that. One with pictures instead of words. lol-2.gif Think I'll try one of these! Did you get that engine out last weekend? beerchug.gif



Yeah it's VERY easy to install. Given what you've accomplished with your harness this is a snoozer. Everything is very well labeled. I think I posted the instructions in my build thread. Guessing the guy who had 2 dead ones crossed the positive and negative wires ... which DOES release the magic smoke. Even I know that. Bob recommended this one BTW (shocker).

I have the engine ready to drop. Just gave it a few days for this green stuff to drip off (antifreeze). I have a couple of small dogs, so a few drops would be deadly for them. Will drop it later today and post some pics!


Posted by: 76-914 Mar 13 2016, 10:43 AM

For the few that are following this Boredom Bowl, I will continue to post these uninspiring updates on my cooling system. I'll try to keep these brief until it's complete.
Hit the hi way yesterday for about 40 min's. This hi way has about 6 stop lights along the route and I kept it at 70mph+. Why this test? In reading one of the articles that Stephen posted it spoke of a head pressure build up on the pump. I had noticed this phenomenon early on but wasn't sure what was behind it. Heat or pressure? I used this MC filler neck in the front trunk and noticed a discharge after some hard runs so I poked a hole in the top of this water bottle to catch the overflow.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

It was only then that I noticed how much it discharged. No problem. I'd just pour it back in the expansion/recovery tank in the engine bay every once in a while. So now that I know why this happens I want to see if there is has been a change since the radiator swap. I didn't see any discharge w/ this radiator but I didn't "horse it" either. I'm betting 4000rpm+ and I will see it return unless this radiator flows more freely. 70mph is only 2800rpm.
So all this stromberg.gif and what did I learn? Just that the discharge is not constant. I may have the chance to "horse it" this afternoon to see if high rpm is related to that discharge. Seems logical that pressure would increase with rpm. If that's the case, and I suspect it is, I will change hose size. More later. beerchug.gif

Posted by: 914forme Mar 16 2016, 09:52 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Mar 11 2016, 11:53 AM) *

Im going to be running the Davies Craig water pump and LCD control panel, it circulates both the water pump and fans perfectlg for speed and timing to maintain the desired temperature.

I got both for ~320 shipped from australia. Theres a link to the ebay auction/seller in my thread, ill get it in a bit.

headbang.gif

Nice, and it eliminates a lot of the items we are talking about in this cooling water pump cavitation.

Thermostat is gone, water pump is gone, and line sizes might be back down to a more reasonable size. Stock it uses 1-3/8" hose, accepts hoses from 1"-2"

I am thinking I am sold on this idea, Thank you Andrew for the tip.

Now to grind the impellers off a water pump.

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 16 2016, 12:41 PM

We may all end up going this route but I had a pleasant surprise after yesterdays drive. I horsed it around on some back road twisties yesterday and did not have any discharge into the water bottle reservoir. Maybe a little in my pants as a Mountain Lion crossed the road in front of me but none in the water bottle. blink.gif Previously high RPM's preceded (not ready to say caused) this discharge. Absolutely no reason for this unless the newer radiator has < flow restriction than the old one. Maybe the 3/4" return IS ample. Regardless, it's time to throw the condenser back into the mix and see what happens next. beerchug.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 26 2016, 08:19 AM

No apparent changes to the indicated temp since throwing the condenser back on so I installed the Derale fan controller. The factory ECU was not shutting the fans down once they activated so I'm hoping this unit will produce favorable results.
It's quiet compact:

Attached Image

Compared to my old Rat's Nest.

Attached Image

Just needed to make this Tee for the sender and I was good to go. Look out Rt 66!

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 914forme Mar 26 2016, 08:28 AM

Looking good, got to love progress!!!! I think you will be happy with that controller they work very well.

Posted by: Chris H. Mar 26 2016, 10:25 AM

Nice work Kent. So simple. The stock system thinks too much doesn't it biggrin.gif ? Dang computers screwy.gif . I like how you can easily wire it to run all the time if you want with a switch. Nice for the first few days of the conversion too. Next time !

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 27 2016, 07:00 AM

Thx guys and just as you you predicted Chris, the factory setting was way too low.

Posted by: Chris H. Mar 27 2016, 08:17 PM

biggrin.gif Yeah it's easy to adjust. Mine was set at 165...and the controller is designed to turn off after the system cools down 10 degrees. So...highly unlikely the fans are strong enough to cool the system down to 155. They would stay on until the car was shut off. What are you gonna set it at? 185? 190? Just eyeball your gauge for the middle? I remember the SVX gauge stayed EXACTLY between C and H.

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 28 2016, 09:27 AM

I've only adjusted it once so far, Chris. I just turned the screw until the fans shut down since the gage was centered at that moment. I'm not going to do any serious adjusting until it warms up a bit and the AC is in full swing. I can check temps with an IR thermometer at the copper tee later and dial it in. Yesterday, I discovered that an AC line was contacting the R side tie rod when the wheel was turned completely to the right so I rerouted those lines.

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 7 2016, 11:22 AM

Alright, hose update. Got my 1.25 installed and all is well so far.

Kent here are some pics and info for your install:

Tips:

- The 1.25 is a STRETCH to get onto the radiator inlet/outlet but hot water and dish soap and they will fit. Might have the same experience on the engine end but be patient.
- The larger hose is not as bendy so keep that in mind when making turns, etc. Leave extra and then trim off a little at a time if you have a 90 degree turn.
- I had to X my lines because my hot line on the engine is on the passenger side and the inlet on the rad is on the drivers side. Do that in the front trunk if you have to, not underneath.

Up front:

Attached Image

Attached Image

When you look underneath the car you will see that there very few places that the hoses fit through the steering rack. Basically if you locate the center of the steering rack (there is a bolt or something there), the hoses BARELY fit on either side. A lot of people just cut one hole that is oval/oblong shaped which makes sense. One will pass VERY close to the clutch setup, touching it most likely. That is the only route that allows you to easily line the hoses up in the recesses in the middle of the car.

Examples for you:

Attached Image

See how tight the fit is there? There was an extra hole in the clutch plate so I zip tied the hose to it.

This shows both hoses from the other angle. You can see how they fit into the recesses (ALMOST exactly).

Attached Image

The other alternative is to come out the sides of the front trunk but the steering gear is there and there could be interference. Maybe not I just didn't like the idea myself.

Attached Image

To attach the hoses underneath I used these:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/1-1-2-in-Rigid-2-Hole-Conduit-Straps-2-Pack-26125/100124729

Even though they might seem too small, the recessed area makes it work.

To attach them I used the same bolts as before for the outer bolts (floor side) since they are lower profile. You can see them in the pic. For the inner ones in the tunnel I used 10/24 size with this HF threaded rivet nut tool

http://www.harborfreight.com/45-piece-threaded-insert-riveter-kit-1210.html

For 10/24 you need slightly larger than a 1/4" drill bit. Then hog it out a bit more and the insert fits in. Even though they are aluminum they seem plenty strong. When drilling in the tunnel the closer to the middle the better. Stay away from the seam between the two and it's highly unlikely you'll hit anything.

The system seems easier to fill and it has taken nearly 3 gallons so far. Temps are super cool but I haven't run it that long yet since I want to make sure it's full.

How's it going with the engine install? You get ant time this weekend? PM me with questions or call me.






Posted by: Chris H. Aug 8 2016, 07:54 PM

poke.gif icon_bump.gif Update again!

I was able to start the car and let it idle for about 10 minutes. It wouldn't even get to 150 degrees with the 1.25 hoses. I know the gauge is dead on accurate since the sender is on the engine itself now. I'm running with no thermostat BTW, but more on that in my thread. You don't need to run that way. It does heat up more evenly.

KENT YOU'RE GONNA LIKE THIS UPGRADE!!!!

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 11 2016, 04:04 PM

Not trying to be a post whore. Just needed to add this link re: the engine swap. beerchug.gif http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=286795&hl=

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 19 2017, 03:00 PM

I wanted to keep the std spec Serpentine belt from the beginning so that I would not need to remember what size belt to buy in the future. My first attempt was to block off the in/out ports on the pump. To do this I needed to disassemble the pump in order to remove the vanes. This worked fine for 7K miles but then the bearing gave out. I believe that w/o the vanes in place too much lateral load is placed upon the bearing from the belts tension. I had another pump and installed it but knew I needed to find another solution or go thru this again. This is my solution for the 3.0. I don't know if the set up is the same for the 2.5's but maybe. Material cost = ~ $60.

Remove the PS bracket then the PS pump from the bracket.

Attached Image

Cut 2, 1/8" pieces of steel to fit the front and rear of the bracket. Note that the front piece should be radiused to clear the wheel. Hole locations are transferred from the bracket to the plate via hole centering punches. The bolt hole for the wheel itself is simple to locate. It is lined up vertically with the bottom bolt hole and 1/2 way between the 2 top bolt holes.The piece on the right with the piece of tube tacked on is the front piece.

Attached Image

A view from the backside.

Attached Image

Some pics of the front and rear pieces bolted in place. ***Note*** the bottom hole has an aluminum boss on the bracket the protrudes about an 1/8" out that needs to be filed down or the front plate will not fit flush!

Attached Image

Attached Image

Add the necessary amount of washers to clearance the wheel from the bracket.

Attached Image

Finally install the wheel.

Attached Image

A few different pics showing the assembly in place and the clearance between the bracket and wheel. It's close but that is what is necessary to keep the wheel lined up with the belt.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 May 27 2017, 01:04 PM

I've got about a 1,000 miles on the power steering bypass so I'm hoping it's good. I just pulled out my modified fuel tank and replaced it with an unmolested one. Thank you Chris H. You can see it cleaned up pretty good Chris. I'm now running a Walbro pump which I hope is a bit more robust than those Impreza pumps.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Then I decided to polish the Fuchs after 2 years. I hadn't noticed the gradual degradation until I hit one with some Mother's. blink.gif Yea, the nuts look like Hell. I suppose I should get those into the plater this summer.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. May 27 2017, 10:14 PM

Wow that did clean up nicely. A radiator shop did that for you? Looks great. So you're up and running with the Walbro? Simple is better with that IMO.

Posted by: 914forme May 28 2017, 08:26 PM

I have done them both ways, and I prefer a Walbro in the tank, keeps it nice and cool, and well, makes it a bit more quite. But then, It is nice hearing the fuel pump running. When I raced I had a simple dash switch for it. Also allowed you to cycle all the heat soaked fuel out of the lines for that 100HP boast you get from cool fuel. huh.gif

It might really be a 0.001 HP improvement.

Yes I want to know what the Rad Shop used, as I have two tanks to get cleaned up, and sealed.

Posted by: 76-914 May 29 2017, 09:56 AM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ May 27 2017, 09:14 PM) *

Wow that did clean up nicely. A radiator shop did that for you? Looks great. So you're up and running with the Walbro? Simple is better with that IMO.

This radiator shop mainly does large heat exchangers used in HVAC industry. I didn't unwrap that stinky tank to inspect but he confirmed your appraisal. He said it was in great shape with that one little spot so that's why it was treated. What impressed me was that he knew it was a 914 tank. He said the aftermarket Stereo Installers created lots of work for him in the 70's. av-943.gif I know this is my imagination working overtime but I swear I have more power now! Is that possible? My pressure is up by about 2psi at cruise and 6psi when floored. WTF.gif

QUOTE(914forme @ May 28 2017, 07:26 PM) *

I have done them both ways, and I prefer a Walbro in the tank, keeps it nice and cool, and well, makes it a bit more quite. But then, It is nice hearing the fuel pump running. When I raced I had a simple dash switch for it. Also allowed you to cycle all the heat soaked fuel out of the lines for that 100HP boast you get from cool fuel. huh.gif

It might really be a 0.001 HP improvement.

Yes I want to know what the Rad Shop used, as I have two tanks to get cleaned up, and sealed.
I'll ask him what they used if you'd like, Stephan. The reason I went with the external pump was to see if the old pump was heating the gas. My gas tank was getting hot as Hell so I wanted to see if the pump or the radiator was heating the gas. The 914 tank is not exposed to the cooling air rushing beneath it like a regular tank. My thought was: if the tank can't shed the heat from the pump how will it cool the pump and not continually heat the gas? I'm probably wrong as usual but I'll figure it out eventually. One thing I've learned over the years; When faced with inexperience tenacity is your best friend. beerchug.gif

Posted by: 914forme May 30 2017, 06:19 AM

[quote name='76-914' date='May 29 2017, 11:56 AM' post='2490750']
[/quote] I'll ask him what they used if you'd like, Stephan. The reason I went with the external pump was to see if the old pump was heating the gas. My gas tank was getting hot as Hell so I wanted to see if the pump or the radiator was heating the gas. The 914 tank is not exposed to the cooling air rushing beneath it like a regular tank. My thought was: if the tank can't shed the heat from the pump how will it cool the pump and not continually heat the gas? I'm probably wrong as usual but I'll figure it out eventually. One thing I've learned over the years; When faced with inexperience tenacity is your best friend. beerchug.gif
[/quote]

Some cars actually use a fuel cooler to help dissipate heat. I would not want to run the fuel line down the side of the car, but one way to dissipate the heat would be do the same thing, and just run a coil in front of your rad. Fuel heat can become an issue, as we all know from Vapor lock.

I would start placing a temp probe all over the place before I went to the problem of a new pump. I have a feeling your picking up heat soak off your cooling system. Dissimilar temperature items like to merge to a constant stable temperature. Only way to know is to test. I ran a rotary fuel pump mounted to my 911 cross bar about the gravel tray for years with out issue, it was just loud.

Posted by: 76-914 May 30 2017, 08:05 AM

Well good to know you and others have experienced this Stephen. I'll report back after the WCR event. If it is still an issue I'll duct the radiator to the wheel wells. I've been tossing around the idea of a canvas duct! idea.gif beerchug.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 11 2017, 09:21 PM

As promised, the results from the WCR trip. I was wrong again. After I eliminated every other possibility things finally make sense. First I want to say why I was adamant that the radiator exhaust wasn't the culprit. I had over 5000 miles on the car before the gas tank began to have this heat soak issue. But in thinking back, I changed radiators March 2015 which is when all this began. I never had this problem with the single core but once I went dual core........whamo! WTF.gif While you wrap your head around that I'll go on to mention that I'm not the first to experience a hot gas tank. I talked with Tony aka Cracker @ WCR at length about this. That's about 5 minutes for a drunk. av-943.gif Anyway he shared some of his past experiences and several of his ideas on this. Before ducting the radiator shroud I decided to take his easiest suggestion; enlarge the openings in the wheel well. Well wait just a damned second..........doesn't this tie right back in with where I left you......why this began with the radiator change out 15 month's ago. These are my thoughts and I'd like to hear yours on this. To quote Cap't Ron, "Now stay with me...." I believe the Celica racing dual core lets more air pass than the old single core Scirocco would did. This excess hot air now looks for other ways out. One of these is past the bulkhead seal, around the tank walls and out the opening below the steering column. Yes, I have the cover in place but it's certainly not air tight. Below are the pics showing the taped border area where I cut to enlarge the opening in the wheel wells. I'll drive it until I can determine if it is cured. If not then the radiator hoses get rerouted beneath the car and a plenum shall be made. More on this later. I'm coming up on 10,000 mile and believe this albeit the most recent problem, is the last of my Gremlins. beerchug.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: Chris H. Jun 12 2017, 09:50 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jun 11 2017, 10:21 PM) *

I'm coming up on 10,000 mile and believe this albeit the most recent problem, is the last of my Gremlins. beerchug.gif



Don't even SAY that out loud! biggrin.gif

Consider wrapping the hoses that are in the front trunk up high with something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEI-1-Aluminized-Hose-Sleeving-Hook-Loop-Sticky-Heat-Shroud-36-3ft-Long-/302166268408?hash=item465a8359f8:g:qYMAAOSw6n5Xt1Ge&vxp=mtr

Posted by: rhodyguy Jun 12 2017, 09:54 AM

Now you jinxed the whole deal. slap.gif

Posted by: Chris914n6 Jun 12 2017, 03:45 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jun 11 2017, 08:21 PM) *

Attached Image

That doesn't look like it's enough. Would be worth it to crunch numbers. The OUT needs to be 20% larger than the IN to account for heat expansion of the air.

An insulator between the hose and the tank might help. I don't think the heat transfer would be THAT much but it's possible.

Posted by: Andyrew Jun 12 2017, 05:02 PM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Jun 12 2017, 02:45 PM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jun 11 2017, 08:21 PM) *

Attached Image

That doesn't look like it's enough. Would be worth it to crunch numbers. The OUT needs to be 20% larger than the IN to account for heat expansion of the air.

An insulator between the hose and the tank might help. I don't think the heat transfer would be THAT much but it's possible.


I thought it was 50% larger?



I think you probably could use with a larger outlet for your radiator, but JUST ducting it will certainly increase your efficiency by a wide margin methinks.


Could be a fun foam or cardboard adventure depending on how you shroud it smile.gif

Posted by: Chris914n6 Jun 12 2017, 05:45 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jun 12 2017, 04:02 PM) *

I thought it was 50% larger?

Just 20%. A bunch of engineering went into my AC unit, some was actual heater core and radiator temps and air volume.

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 12 2017, 09:42 PM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Jun 12 2017, 02:45 PM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jun 11 2017, 08:21 PM) *

Attached Image

That doesn't look like it's enough. Would be worth it to crunch numbers. The OUT needs to be 20% larger than the IN to account for heat expansion of the air.

An insulator between the hose and the tank might help. I don't think the heat transfer would be THAT much but it's possible.

The in would be the air inlet, correct? That area is 18 x 5 or 90 sq in. The new cutout area will be 180 sq in. The coming 15 days will be hot so I'll see what happens with the larger openings. beerchug.gif

Posted by: mgp4591 Jun 12 2017, 09:45 PM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Jun 12 2017, 05:45 PM) *

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jun 12 2017, 04:02 PM) *

I thought it was 50% larger?

Just 20%. A bunch of engineering went into my AC unit, some was actual heater core and radiator temps and air volume.

I'd always heard that it's twice the outlet size per inlet size... idea.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 12 2017, 09:51 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jun 12 2017, 04:02 PM) *

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Jun 12 2017, 02:45 PM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jun 11 2017, 08:21 PM) *

Attached Image

That doesn't look like it's enough. Would be worth it to crunch numbers. The OUT needs to be 20% larger than the IN to account for heat expansion of the air.

An insulator between the hose and the tank might help. I don't think the heat transfer would be THAT much but it's possible.


I thought it was 50% larger?



I think you probably could use with a larger outlet for your radiator, but JUST ducting it will certainly increase your efficiency by a wide margin methinks.


Could be a fun foam or cardboard adventure depending on how you shroud it smile.gif

See that pink string, Andrew? That is the forward/top corner of the proposed duct. Doesn't give me a Hell of a lot of room to tie in the shroud but doable. I laid out some measurements in case I need to duct. I've a couple of cool ducting ideas, I mentioned canvas earlier, that I will bounce off you guys if it comes to that. This is going to get handled and put to bet this summer. beerchug.gif

Posted by: Chris914n6 Jun 12 2017, 10:18 PM

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Jun 12 2017, 08:45 PM) *

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Jun 12 2017, 05:45 PM) *

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jun 12 2017, 04:02 PM) *

I thought it was 50% larger?

Just 20%. A bunch of engineering went into my AC unit, some was actual heater core and radiator temps and air volume.

I'd always heard that it's twice the outlet size per inlet size... idea.gif

That guy was blowing smoke up your ass. The formula for thermal expansion is on the internet if you want to do the calculations. I think any further discussions of this should be in a separate thread.

The hot air would have to be blowing past the trunk seal to heat the gas tank as the tank doesn't actually touch the metal divider. Opening up the truck holes to 2x inlet air should alleviate that if it's the problem.

Posted by: Chris H. Jun 12 2017, 10:43 PM

This is what concerns me if the tank is getting hot. The hoses are very close to it on both sides. Can't hurt to wrap those with some insulated wrap or sleeves.


Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 13 2017, 09:18 AM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Jun 12 2017, 09:18 PM) *

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Jun 12 2017, 08:45 PM) *

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Jun 12 2017, 05:45 PM) *

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jun 12 2017, 04:02 PM) *

I thought it was 50% larger?

Just 20%. A bunch of engineering went into my AC unit, some was actual heater core and radiator temps and air volume.

I'd always heard that it's twice the outlet size per inlet size... idea.gif

That guy was blowing smoke up your ass. The formula for thermal expansion is on the internet if you want to do the calculations. I think any further discussions of this should be in a separate thread.

The hot air would have to be blowing past the trunk seal to heat the gas tank as the tank doesn't actually touch the metal divider. Opening up the truck holes to 2x inlet air should alleviate that if it's the problem.
Chris, feel free to download any info you feel pertinent to this problem. It it saves someone headaches, time and $$$, do it. agree.gif w/ the 20% rule as this is what I've read, as well. The hot air is blowing past the seal. Or what's left of it. I did trim it to allow the hoses to pass over the firewall. Even the unmolested seals let air pass by the ends of the seal. The hot air is then drawn down along the sides of the tank on its way out the steering column cover. My cover has half of a small butane tank welded in to cover my first attempt at a clutch master cylinder. I believe this exacerbates the problem. Kinda like blowing across the top of a Coke bottle causing a bit of negative pressure. Anyone have an extra cover for sale?? beerchug.gif

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Jun 12 2017, 09:43 PM) *

This is what concerns me if the tank is getting hot. The hoses are very close to it on both sides. Can't hurt to wrap those with some insulated wrap or sleeves.
I've touched both the hoses as well as the fuel pump when it quits and they aren't that hot. confused24.gif You might be right, though. Changing those out and ducting is next on the list if this doesn't do the trick. beerchug.gif


Attached Image

Posted by: 914forme Jun 13 2017, 10:29 PM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Jun 13 2017, 12:18 AM) *

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Jun 12 2017, 08:45 PM) *

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Jun 12 2017, 05:45 PM) *

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jun 12 2017, 04:02 PM) *

I thought it was 50% larger?

Just 20%. A bunch of engineering went into my AC unit, some was actual heater core and radiator temps and air volume.

I'd always heard that it's twice the outlet size per inlet size... idea.gif

That guy was blowing smoke up your ass. The formula for thermal expansion is on the internet if you want to do the calculations. I think any further discussions of this should be in a separate thread.

The hot air would have to be blowing past the trunk seal to heat the gas tank as the tank doesn't actually touch the metal divider. Opening up the truck holes to 2x inlet air should alleviate that if it's the problem.


confused24.gif if Kent only needs 20% that is an extra 36 sq inches based off his quoted inlet size of 180 sq inches.

So why are you suggesting he adds an additional 180 sq inches to his current 180 squar inches to create 360 squar inches of outlet. Which so happens to be a 100% increase. Or 2x the opening size from the ratio of inlet to outlet. And you said the person who recommended that was blowing smoke up Kent's ass. Then you went and blew the same smoke up his ass confused24.gif It might have been a different color but it all smells the same stromberg.gif

Kent your issue is not enough exit. Ducting will help as what you are doing right now is like trying to corral free range cats. It just can't be done. Much easier to domesticate the poor bastards then push them down a narrow shoot. So go out and add duct work, or add bigger holes. Or remove them little fans you got there, and add some duct work and a small snowmobile engine. Use it to drive a turbine fan, and make your car into a sucker car.

Then you have no problem getting them pesky cats rounded up. And everything else in your path will be sucked up and spit out in a million little pieces. Of course you could then take this turbines outlet air, and duct it into your intake, and well then you have your self a supper charger shades.gif

Now you have created a whole mther set of problems to figure out, but you solved your cooling issue, in a very golbergian fashion. av-943.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 14 2017, 08:11 AM

I'm thinking your right Stephen but hoping your wrong. I'm prepared to duct it but thought I'd try opening up the wheel wells a bit first. BTW, I think Chris was saying that 20% is the rule but if I was going to increase the opening by a factor of 2 I'd be just fine. How's your project coming along? Kent beerchug.gif

Posted by: mgp4591 Jun 14 2017, 10:18 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jun 14 2017, 08:11 AM) *

I'm thinking your right Stephen but hoping your wrong. I'm prepared to duct it but thought I'd try opening up the wheel wells a bit first. BTW, I think Chris was saying that 20% is the rule but if I was going to increase the opening by a factor of 2 I'd be just fine. How's your project coming along? Kent beerchug.gif

I think 20% additional is only 36 sq. inches... and I really wouldn't want Chris to blow smoke up my ass... blink.gif if I want it, I'll pay someone else to do it in Vegas... happy11.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 26 2017, 02:07 PM

I've put this off for long enough. I tried driving "the proverbial" square plug in a round hole long enough. I should have done this long ago but chose to eliminate the other possibilities first. My mistake. mad.gif
Before I go on I want to pass on a condensed version of my thinking and failures leading up to this. If you didn't already know, my gas tank has been getting hot and manifesting itself into at least two other problems. There may be others that haven't reared their ugly heads yet. When the tank reached "X" temp i.e. hot to the touch I could feel the metal dash and it would be hot. This in turn made it damned uncomfortable to ride in any ambient temp greater than 40F. Within minutes of feeling the hot air emanate from the dash the fuel pressure would drop from 42psi to less than 10psi at which point it would stall. After letting the tank cool down I would repeat the process. headbang.gif
What confused me was that I had nearly 5000 miles on the Odo before this problem surfaced. idea.gif Hmmm. What could have happened that might have caused this? I remembered changing the fuel pump after it conked out and immediately surmised that the new pump was heating the tank. Why didn't the old one do this? I don't know and failed to ask myself this all important question. screwy.gif My solution; change out the heavily modified 914 gas tank and replace it with a stock tank and larger Walbro pump to meet the 3 liter'e appetite. I completed that change about 1 week before WCR2017. I've learned not to put much faith into my diagnostic abilities so I towed the 914 to WCR. Good call because my efforts were in vein. Just ask Wes. We sat in the heat on the side of the road for 2 hours whilst it cooled. Thank God I wasn't carrying that day or I'd have taken that SOB out back and shot it.ar15.gif Back on track. What changed that caused my gas tank to heat? idea.gif Then I remembered and as posted here earlier, I had changed from a single core Scirocco radiator to the favored Celica dual core racing type when this "heated gas tank" conundrum began. Btw, that is a Hell of a good radiator. In error I believed the newer radiator was more free flowing and allowed more heat to saturate the tank but that thinking was flawed. The same amount of heated water at "X" temp was passing thru the new radiator as the old. I now believe (or should I say, "This time I think it is.....) it was a simple matter of inlet area > outlet area. When I drilled out the front wheel wells I made the exhaust area 40% larger than the opening for the radiator. Right before I changed out the radiator I increased the inlet opening hoping for some relief from over heating. For some reason this evaded the limits of my memory until this weekend. headbang.gif
No loss. I'm ducting this thing and putting it to bed once and for all. In order to duct the radiator I will have to make a couple of PITA changes. The first change I've been anticipating. Change out the radiator lines that presently run thru the longs in favor of the bit larger 1 3/8" hose fitted beneath the car. The second will be rerouting or replacement of the AC lines in the frunk. These 2 things will clean up the frunk allowing the duct. I had bounced around a few ideas on materials and ultimately settled on Aluminum for all the usual reasons. I still had a few sheets of 2024 laying around so I decided to start throwing some metal at it. I have some E Glass on hand but I believe it will ultimately be faster to Fab it than Dab it.
This is where I'm presently at. My target outlet area is 180" sq.;90" sq per side. This is a pic of my template.

Attached Image

Left side roughly outlined with some tape. The wire looms are very close to the lower left corner but should work.

Attached Image

Right side. Same thing except I've got the AC hoses to deal with here. Notice the AC bulkhead fittings at the lower right corner? outlet frame is beginning to take form here as well.

Attached Image

And a few more with the side attach pieces mounted to the radiator outlets. This design will have two plenums. One for each side. More pic's to come once things cool down here. 105F yesterday; 103F today! happy11.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image



Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: 914forme Jun 26 2017, 06:31 PM

Why divide the center? Just wondering are your fans staged? I think your making this a bit to complicated.

But then that is the pot calling the kettle black. av-943.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 29 2017, 08:46 AM

Baby steps. It happens every time I design and build simultaneously. headbang.gif
Paper template for bottom tray piece being fitted:

Attached Image

Attached Image

The bottom piece now cut, positioned and clecoed in place.

Attached Image

Attached Image

The piece in front of the radiator hose connection is an access cover and will be held in place with SS screws rather than rivets. The top piece which will be removable for service and access is next. It will surely by a Royal PITA as there are multiple angles that need to meet. sad.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: 914forme Jun 29 2017, 09:01 AM

That made it more clear keep up the work

Posted by: A&P Mech Jun 29 2017, 03:18 PM

popcorn[1].gif This is pretty cool. I purchased the aluminum to do something like this a while ago. Looks like I will be riding your coat tails yet again. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting Kent! popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: Andyrew Jun 29 2017, 04:08 PM

I like it! I think the divide is important so the flow goes the right way and doesnt disrupt. I think this will help a lot!!!

Personally I would have used expanding foam to make a template, shape it to fix and fiberglass it. But your way works smile.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 29 2017, 05:48 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jun 29 2017, 03:08 PM) *

I like it! I think the divide is important so the flow goes the right way and doesnt disrupt. I think this will help a lot!!!

Personally I would have used expanding foam to make a template, shape it to fix and fiberglass it. But your way works smile.gif

I was leaning towards glassing it Andrew. I even have a partial roll of some S glass. IIRC, it is good to 200C. What I couldn't wrap my head around was how I would apply resin to the bottom. confused24.gif On a high note, it passed the remove part of removable today. The test will be the install part of re-installation. I hated that it needed to be designed this way but as sure as God made little Green Apples had I not done it ...........well you know.

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 29 2017, 05:53 PM

QUOTE(A&P Mech @ Jun 29 2017, 02:18 PM) *

popcorn[1].gif This is pretty cool. I purchased the aluminum to do something like this a while ago. Looks like I will be riding your coat tails yet again. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting Kent! popcorn[1].gif

Well at least wait a few months. You know how many mistakes I've made during this build. Some of them take months to rear their ugly heads! lol-2.gif

Posted by: mgp4591 Jun 30 2017, 03:52 AM

I hated that it needed to be designed this way but as sure as God made little Green Apples had I not done it ...........well you know.
[/quote]
What? That it wouldn't have rained in Indianapolis in the summertime?? shades.gif

Posted by: Andyrew Jun 30 2017, 08:19 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jun 29 2017, 04:48 PM) *

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jun 29 2017, 03:08 PM) *

I like it! I think the divide is important so the flow goes the right way and doesnt disrupt. I think this will help a lot!!!

Personally I would have used expanding foam to make a template, shape it to fix and fiberglass it. But your way works smile.gif

I was leaning towards glassing it Andrew. I even have a partial roll of some S glass. IIRC, it is good to 200C. What I couldn't wrap my head around was how I would apply resin to the bottom. confused24.gif On a high note, it passed the remove part of removable today. The test will be the install part of re-installation. I hated that it needed to be designed this way but as sure as God made little Green Apples had I not done it ...........well you know.



You remove the foam mold, glass it, after wrapping it in foil, then break the foam out after the glass has set. Also technically speaking you dont need to do a bottom. Just the portion that forces air to the fender and run it to the floor.

Posted by: Andyrew Jun 30 2017, 08:23 AM

Also you can make the base foundation from chickenwire or some other extremely maluable substrate. I might do that on mine, either foam the wire and smooth or lay the first layer with cloth.

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 1 2017, 07:11 PM

More baby steps and it's slowly coming together. This is the biggest part I could put together and still be able to remove it. The remainder will be pop riveted or screwed together.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

This is the piece I made to square up that weird angle on the flange at the wheel well. Also a few shots of it's template.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

With the small gusset in place the top piece can be a flat sheet. piratenanner.gif

Attached Image

Because of the off center outlet on the Celica radiator I had some side stepping to do. I used 2 Goodyear #60083 1.25" extended 90's and shortened one to make it a plain 90, attached the two and dodged a bullet.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Made this copper coupling piece so I could have the line exposed once the plenum is in place.

Attached Image

The left fan is re-fitted for what I hope is a very long time. A 3/4 x .125 piece of angle is riveted to the back wall so the top piece has several attach points.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Then the top piece is cut and attached to check fit. The clecoes will remain in place during initial testing. I had planned on installing plate nuts with countersunk SS screws but now I'm leaning towards pop rivets. I can drill those out faster than I can remove those soft SS screws. happy11.gif I need to install and connect the new coolant lines before I build the right side plenum.

Attached Image

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 8 2017, 07:32 PM

Pieces are all cut and mated. Just need to remount the fan and a general clean up before reassembling. I'll silicone inside where skin surfaces are joined to make it air tight. However, I can't go further until some A/C and radiator hose fittings arrive. Should be this week. Here are a few pics in the rough to give you a general idea of the shape. I'll post the final product and some measurements if anyone wants them. beerchug.gif

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: Larmo63 Jul 8 2017, 07:49 PM

You're NOT putting a Japanese engine in a German car, are you?
bootyshake.gif

Posted by: jimkelly Jul 9 2017, 01:31 AM

nice duct work BUT i thought the consensus was that suby did not require much air flow.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=196107&hl=opening

jim

Posted by: A&P Mech Jul 9 2017, 06:48 AM

Looks great Kent! beerchug.gif

Posted by: JRust Jul 9 2017, 03:20 PM

Well done Kent! So the real question is. Did it fix the heat issue with your tank?

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 23 2017, 04:52 PM

Thx Ray. AC fittings finally arrived and so I was able to button everything up . Here are a few pics of the finished product. Jamie. I won't know for a week or so.

Attached Image

Attached Image