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Posted by: McMark Jan 15 2013, 10:24 AM

I was flipping through an old Excellence from 1990 and came across this ad. Hard to believe that they sold zero kits. Anyone out there seen one?

The 'cheap' kit was $1495 in 1990, which when accounting for inflation would be $2500 today (according to The Internet®). Wonder what turbo it is....


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Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Jan 15 2013, 02:26 PM

Posted by: euro911 Jan 15 2013, 02:36 PM

Check with CB Performance. http://www.cbperformance.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=171

Posted by: DBCooper Jan 15 2013, 03:23 PM

Bernie Bergman... Fifteen-twenty years ago there was a story about a guy pulling into parking lot behind Bernie's shop, seeing him out back "clearancing" a stroker motor on an engine stand by revving it up to 4000, back to 2000, up to 4000. It evidently had a slight knock on startup, case not ground quite enough for the crank swing.

Oh, sorry, what was the question again?

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 15 2013, 03:28 PM

A guy on this site years ago was trying to get one running again.


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Posted by: Chris H. Jan 15 2013, 03:33 PM

You can't turbo a 914.

Posted by: Ferg Jan 15 2013, 03:41 PM

Took 4 posts, but Thank You

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 15 2013, 03:44 PM

Felt pretty good.

Posted by: rtalich Jan 15 2013, 05:47 PM

Says who?.........


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Posted by: Zimms Jan 15 2013, 05:58 PM

Any in car shots?

Posted by: MrLeeS Jan 15 2013, 06:05 PM

Funny, thats what I heard too. So i put 40k+ miles on this:

Posted by: rtalich Jan 15 2013, 06:05 PM

Not yet... Soon I hope :-)

Posted by: iamchappy Jan 15 2013, 06:53 PM

Yes you can.....


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Posted by: get off my lawn Jan 15 2013, 06:57 PM

I spoke to Bernie about 10 or 15 years ago.
he told me he lost money on every turbo kit he sold because of all the bench racers and tire kickers. he had to spend countless hours answering phone calls and talking to potential cuistomers who never bought anything. In the end he threw it all in a dumpster and said good riddance.

And ferg's right, you can't turbo a 914.




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Posted by: McMark Jan 15 2013, 07:20 PM

Just to prove Rob's big ass turbo motor does fit in a stock engine bay...


And since we're sharing turbo pics...

Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 15 2013, 07:26 PM

MSDS turbo kit;



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Posted by: last337 Jan 15 2013, 07:57 PM

Just out of curiosity, why do you say you can't turbo a 914?

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 15 2013, 08:43 PM

It's an old joke...don't remember how it started..probably an "expert"saying there was some mechanical or engineering limitation that prevented a type 4 from being turbocharged. Used to come up frequently. I never got to say it first until today!!!! (I'm slow)

There have been several REALLY nice Type 4 turbo cars BTW. The one that comes to mind is nein 14's.

Posted by: DBCooper Jan 15 2013, 08:49 PM

There are various stories, but I remember Jake Raby saying it on the ShopTalkForms T4 board more than ten years ago. There was a contingent of Europeans who were turboing their engines and using 103 and 106 barrels, getting huge horsepower, but needing to five and six stud the heads to keep them sealed. Jake thought that practice was unacceptable so answered turbo questions with "you can't turbo a T4." How it got to 914's I'm not sure but Jake has a pretty strong personality so it became kind of a joke on STF to repeat that to any newby who asked turbo questions. The guys who repeated it most often were those Europeans who'd turboed their cars. They thought it was hilarious.

Posted by: draganc Jan 15 2013, 10:55 PM

I think those turbo engines have been photoshop-ed.

:-)

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 16 2013, 10:59 AM

gotta love the 2 techs in jeff's post. sandals!!! muttonchops are, were, groovy.

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 16 2013, 06:54 PM

I wasn't the one who started it.. It was on the original "Club" site first then it was carried over the STF. We've built numerous Turbo T4 engines over the years and made over 400HP on pump gas, but those days are long gone.

Just figured I'd add that :-)

Posted by: tadink Jan 16 2013, 07:08 PM

So could you tell the 'car guys' by their black toe nails from dropping stuff on their toes all the time??? Seems an odd choice of footwear for that environment!!! LOL

Posted by: McMark Jan 16 2013, 07:08 PM

Wasn't it Jenny's brother who started it...?

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 16 2013, 08:18 PM

I think so, but that was a long damn time ago.. Too many arguments since then to remember the details.

Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 16 2013, 08:34 PM

Ha, they are southern CA.

Posted by: Dr Evil Jan 16 2013, 08:42 PM

Posted by: euro911 Jan 16 2013, 08:47 PM

I have to keep reminding my nephew to wear real shoes in the shop

Posted by: krk Jan 16 2013, 10:16 PM

This is my recollection as well. But there are occasionally errors digging in the memory bits.... ;-)

--krk.

Posted by: oldschool Jan 17 2013, 02:32 AM

Posted by: oldschool Jan 17 2013, 02:34 AM

Posted by: oldschool Jan 17 2013, 02:35 AM

Posted by: DBCooper Jan 17 2013, 07:23 AM

COOL PHOTOS!!! This is my younger son's high school car with a Sweep the Floor turbo he put together:



It was only together a few weeks and he was still tuning it when a policeman followed him, evidently trying to figure out what all had gone on in that engine compartment. The motor shot a three foot flame out the exhaust and scared the shit out of the cop, who gave him a fix-it ticket for a modified exhaust. He was a poor college student so a whole new exhaust was out the question and that was the last of the turbo motor.... until the car got the Subaru. But that's a whole different story...


.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 17 2013, 08:41 AM

Cap'n started it.

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 17 2013, 08:45 AM

Wait, we're not going to stop saying it are we?

Posted by: DBCooper Jan 17 2013, 01:42 PM

Jeez, blame everything on the Cap'n. Good thing he gives as good as he takes.

Posted by: Jonathan Livesay Jan 21 2013, 07:31 PM

Can too.

Posted by: nsr-jamie Jan 21 2013, 09:36 PM

Does anyone sell an actual complete bolt on kit for the 914? Turbos seem to be popular for air cooled cars in North America (with Beetles mostly) but it has not really caught on here in Japan....the old air cooled guys still prefer a big bore motor with 48mm webers.

Posted by: Rand Jan 21 2013, 10:07 PM

Anything that can get a rouse from Jake and Capn in the same thread is gold.

Jake can't turbo anything, and Capn cant fix shit. Lol. (If you don't know that's kidding, go back to Scotty's kindergarten class.)
Now if we could get them both on the same build, it would sell a million DVDs if there still was such a thing (monetize via Youtube? )

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 22 2013, 12:12 AM

It was a tech Q&A letter to "european car" magazine. The "knowledgeable" editor responded pretty much with "you can't turbo a 914". This was at a time that SammyG had already built and sold a turbo 914 (single draw-through carb setup), Jenny's brother Jeff was in the middle of building up a D-jet turbo 914, and Evill Ed was I think also working on his CIS turbo 914. Lots of discussion on the Rennlist forum about that.

Someone wrote back to the mag, mentioning the above setups, and the response was fairly mocking. The carb setup was too simple and stupid, the others weren't done yet, blah blah blah blah.

It became a running joke, every time anyone mentioned turbocharging a 914...

--DD

Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 22 2013, 12:19 AM

Technically none of the motors were tre 914's. They have type 2 motors (or at least doghouses) or Subies,
so you can't turbo a 914

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 22 2013, 07:58 PM

Type IV motors in 914s, not Type II.

--DD

Posted by: daniel_best1 Mar 24 2013, 11:25 AM

Im in london and own brand new never used only run on a bench 2276 blow thru bernie bergmann turbo with dell orto carbs,,I bought from someone who imported it from california to use in his speedster that he planned to build but he never got round to it cause of other problems,,I now have it to go into a custom state of the art buggy,maybe put it into a speedster later..there is an exact same engine in a green speedster on youtube.

Posted by: jimkelly Mar 24 2013, 12:24 PM

turbo


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Posted by: Maltese Falcon Mar 24 2013, 09:17 PM

Maltese Falcon on the left Blu Kyle on the right, in my first shop in
Mar Vista.
Many type four kits sold/installed in those early days .
You can't turbo a 914, (surely not phrased by Greg Brown/Les Bidrawn) but our kits sure did put Msds on the map!
The pressurized Bergman kits were ok as long as the carb throttle shafts were o-ringed.
Sandals are still cool in So Cal !
Marty

Posted by: get off my lawn Mar 26 2013, 04:00 PM

Nope. It was Dave Darling who first told me you can't turbo a type 4 because it would run too hot and drop valve seats. IIRC that was on the renegade site.


That was a really long time ago and it got turbo'd and never got that hot or dropped a valve seat.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 26 2013, 06:27 PM

--DD

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Mar 27 2013, 09:43 AM

The tech on the left would hook you up with one of these 911-Punisher kits , and the tech on the right would have it installed in a day. Or you could have one shipped as well. The beer can on the ignition coil was back from the day as well.
Marty

Posted by: FourBlades Mar 27 2013, 10:41 AM

Fun thread.

"You can't turbo a 914" falls into the same category as "That's not a real Porsche"

The real 914 people just laugh and keep on enjoying our cars.

John

Posted by: moggy Mar 28 2013, 08:42 AM

You also can't supercharge a 914

Posted by: Porscheman May 4 2016, 03:42 PM

Hi I'm new to 914 world ..I want to install a small supercharger on my 914 via fuel injection a small 5 to 7 psi boost ..I seen a turbo installed on a factory fuel injected motor on this page ..do I need to add a blow off valve? ..was going to install directly from super charger to my black rubber air intake hose .would like some feedback ..from anyone who supercharged or turbowed there cars .thanks .try not to laugh to hard ...but as I pass you ..going 120 .mph ..if it don't blow up ...that is .....

Posted by: r_towle May 4 2016, 03:44 PM

I'm sorry, you cannot supercharge a 914.

Posted by: Jonathan Livesay May 4 2016, 03:52 PM

Since this thread has been dormant for more than 3 years, you get credit for getting that off on just the second post. Nice.

Posted by: Porscheman May 4 2016, 04:01 PM

Also I seen the black 914 supercharged ..but he used a custom intake and blowthrough fuel injection with computer from an exspensive efi system ..that u can adjust via computer ..I'm sure he Has a built up motor too ...

Posted by: Porscheman May 4 2016, 04:26 PM

Why can't you supercharge a 914 ..they have turbos .and superchared 914.s or are you guys just messing with me ...as in the old qoute .....

Posted by: r_towle May 4 2016, 04:30 PM

It's an old and long standing joke...

The issue you will have is limited support for the setup, there might be less than 100 in the world that have done this.
And, the head to cylinder sealing is gonna leak, so you will need to keep the boost down and design a method to seal the head better when things get bad.

The 911 turbo, and others, have used basically a guitar string machined into the head and cylinder to assist in sealing them.

It's not a low cost road to go down, but there are many member here that have turbo setups that work.

Posted by: Porscheman May 4 2016, 04:33 PM

I'm building a 2.0 motor and going to install a turbo cam ..hydrolic lifters ..and the biggest pistons and cylinders ..I can find ...I also know the skat track 9500 cam is good for fuel injection motors ...

Posted by: Porscheman May 4 2016, 04:42 PM

Thanks for your input ..I was going to install a small Subaru ple 500 .supercharger made for small displacement engines ..as I want to run the stock fuel injection ..and set up
.rather going with a turbo ..and all the expensive efi blow though desings ..figure the supercharger is small and has a self contained oil set up ..and is cheap to build..and probsbly only pushes 4 to 6 psi anyways

Posted by: Porscheman May 4 2016, 04:46 PM

I also have to install a v belt pully and change out the ribbed stock pully ..to make it work ...

Posted by: Porscheman May 4 2016, 04:52 PM

I'll try adding 5 lbs extra when I install my new oil seals .on the stock head tourqe spec.s as I don't want to break the studs ..and hoping it runs good with the lower psi output ...that it offers may run great ..wish me luck ...

Posted by: poorsche914 May 4 2016, 07:25 PM

This 914 belongs to my neighbor. It is one of the original 914s built by RPM in Florida back in the... '80s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LThicZODfQU

Posted by: r_towle May 4 2016, 07:45 PM

Disney film magic..

Posted by: nein14 May 5 2016, 05:01 AM

Can't be done

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 5 2016, 07:11 AM

The "You can't turbo a 914" joke started back in the late 90s on the Rennlist 914 email forum. It was in response to Jenny's brother attempting to turbo a stock D-Jet engine.


For all of you who have not been around here as long as some of us, that response is a running joke. We all know you can, but all of us want to be the first to post it in any thread about turbocharging.

Posted by: Maltese Falcon May 5 2016, 09:32 PM

And you can't turbocharge a vintage Speedster...unless you're the dude on the left in the sandals

Posted by: Maltese Falcon May 5 2016, 09:38 PM

924 Porsche forced induction...can't turbo that one either. MSDS kit was available a couple years ahead of the factory 931.

Posted by: Mueller May 6 2016, 12:19 AM

I suggest you buy a book or two on the subject of supercharging.

Then I'd spend some time researching this supercharger....

http://superchargersunlimited.com/specs.html

Making the engine larger via biggest pistons and cylinders you can find (which makes you sound like a 12 year old and I doubt you really want to spend that kind of money) will require a bigger supercharger or this small supercharger to be overdriven so much so that it will just turn into a heat pump, something which is not good at all for the supercharger or the motor. You can only remove so much heat from the compressed charge.

Posted by: Dave_Darling May 6 2016, 10:48 PM

Longer ago than that, even. The "fine" folks at "european car" magazine told someone who write in that you cannot turbo a 914. Sammy G, and Jeff Shyu (Jenny's brother) and a couple more were actually doing it at the time, and ejm's and Evill Ed's were in the works.

It developed into a running joke from there.

--DD

Posted by: andrewb May 6 2016, 11:27 PM

You can't wheelie a shaft drive bike either.
It must be true - I read it on the interweb.

Posted by: McMark May 7 2016, 08:35 AM

Sounds very under-researched. Just get giant pistons, huge crank, massive cam, huge supercharger. Bigger is better, so what could go wrong?

Posted by: veekry9 May 7 2016, 09:12 AM

Bergmann
Some linkups to the impossible,as searching 'turbo' the result is too many refs to tie rods.

http://www.bergmannvw.net/
https://www.google.ca/search?q=type+1+vw+engine+aftermarket&espv=2&biw=1097&bih=550&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiYvO_Rj8jMAhWNsh4KHelFBVcQ_AUIBigB
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=276095&hl=
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=248774&hl=
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=276501&hl=
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=262635&hl=
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=276795&hl=
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=275449&hl=
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=275794
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=274385&hl=
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=202113
https://www.google.ca/search?q=porsche+936&biw=1097&bih=550&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjygeLTjsjMAhVLqB4KHYIIAAgQ_AUIBigB&dpr=1.75
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=porsche%20914%20type%201%20engine
http://www.brothersvwmachineshop.com/parts.htm
http://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/how-to-build-your-engine-for-a-turbocharger/
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2643446&page=4
/
There are likely a few more thds on the subject,across all time,I selected a few relevant.
/

That sparks an idea,hmm..and a question.
Other than Porsche and Bruce Crower,has anyone turboed a Flat-8?
/

Posted by: Chris H. May 9 2016, 08:39 AM

It always worked for this guy....

Posted by: veekry9 May 10 2016, 03:31 AM

Rainer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWK593V7ju0


ORRATECH Infofilm
Construction, commissioning and trial run of a 3.0L engine with Typ4 ORRATECH P300SF270 heads.

Bore / Stroke: 105mm x 86mm
Heads: ORRATECH P300SF270
Valves: EV52 AV42-Nimonik, titanium retainer plate, 125kg double springs,
Crankshaft: ORRATECH 86mm with small connecting rod journals, Chromo counterweighted forged,
Rods: H-shaft steel, 5.4 "long 50mm feet, 12mm bolt
Cam / follower: 86b1 "/ 54g mushroom tappet 19mm socket
Cooling: C2-fan, 75Ah-phase AC Lima
Exhaust: 48mm compartments A! or Phyton
Source: Weber 48IDF7OS, intake manifolds with premix ORRATECH
Ignition: 1-2-3 Ignition 16, HD-ignition

This Infofilm shows the basic structure of a 3.0L engine Typ4 and initial commissioning. In particular, the P300SF270 cylinder heads are shown here.
Data: flow value of the inlet 290cfm, 270cfm with 15mm stroke.
Inlet valve 52,3mm, exhaust 42mm Nimonik, 125kg double springs, titanium spring plate, double vent, flat rounded inlet trumpet, D-port outlet, etc.

It is a compilation of a 4-hour procedure, in which, inter alia, also the engine oil is changed and the valve clearance is checked.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuWMICweeQ99cXuKoLrMQmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw1FigYoozE#t=6.080083
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=turbo+charged+intercooled+porsche+914+type+4

I'm surprised to find he's using a Cincinnati with a Heidenhain CNC,a rare machine.
/

Posted by: veekry9 May 10 2016, 09:03 PM

http://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/na/en/catalogs-&-literature/catalog-pdfs/turbocharger/#mahleoriginalturbochargercatalogtc-10-14
/

Posted by: barefoot May 11 2016, 05:56 AM

More turbo installations:
Never say never