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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Poor Quality Lug Bolts
Posted by: McMark Jan 15 2013, 06:57 PM
This is what cheap lug bolts look like. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Spc-feBV1U
Posted by: Kirmizi Jan 15 2013, 07:05 PM
Holy Crap!
Out of curiosity, how old were they?
Looks like they've got some use on them.
Mike
Posted by: McMark Jan 15 2013, 07:16 PM
No idea. I'm pretty sure they were manufactured this way since all 16 are just like this.
Posted by: 914Sixer Jan 15 2013, 09:08 PM
The factory wheel bolts have the VW stamp on the end. I just got through cleaning 26 of them to go to the plater. I have no way of spinning them to check them though.
Posted by: echocanyons Jan 15 2013, 09:45 PM
These lugs were under four years old and have less than 30 thousand miles on them.
They were purchased on Ebay for about $60-80 if I recall correctly and were supposedly the correct seat for the Fuchs and were sold as hardened steel.
These would have more than likely would have failed on me in motion.
Thanks for the catching this Mark, you probably saved the car and possibly my hide.
Can you check it this as a primary seat issue or just junky production.
Posted by: ConeDodger Jan 15 2013, 09:50 PM
These lugs were under four years old and have less than 30 thousand miles on them.
They were purchased on Ebay for about $60-80 if I recall correctly and were supposedly the correct seat for the Fuchs and were sold as hardened steel.
These would have more than likely would have failed on me in motion.
Thanks for the catching this Mark, you probably saved the car and possibly my hide.
Can you check it this as a primary seat issue or just junky production.
eBay seller TheAndante?
Posted by: echocanyons Jan 15 2013, 10:20 PM
I had to check, I was pretty sure that based on the feedback on this board that I steered widely away from theadante.
It looks like I picked these up in 2008 from ISPWest VW AKA pimppride on ebay for $70.
It looks like he is still selling them too.
http://www.vwispwest.com/91436131501BK.html
Posted by: McMark Jan 15 2013, 11:29 PM
If you've got an email receipt, would you mind forwarding it to me? I'll contact them and at least let them know about the problem.
Posted by: echocanyons Jan 15 2013, 11:50 PM
If you've got an email receipt, would you mind forwarding it to me? I'll contact them and at least let them know about the problem.
Sure, on it's way now.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jan 16 2013, 12:31 AM
What can you guess caused them to bend like that? Mayb not torqued down properly and came loose?
Posted by: euro911 Jan 16 2013, 12:52 AM
Good catch Mark. What made you think to check 'em?
I guess I'd better check mine 
... (bought some 'previously owned' ones from a couple of World members)
Posted by: bulitt Jan 16 2013, 01:21 AM
Poor quality steel? or lower grade substituted for higher grade to save $$ (grade 5 instead of grade 8), or the hardening process was improper. Which I think is the point Mark is making?
Posted by: Bartlett 914 Jan 16 2013, 08:09 AM
The way they are chucked up make them really look bad. They may not be as bad as you think. Try chucking on the thread (without damaging the thread) and put an indicator on the radius surface. You will get some runout but I'll bet it will be less than you think. The accuracy of the flats you are chucking on in relation to the thread are not nearly so important. In your setup, they are the reference.
Posted by: Java2570 Jan 16 2013, 11:04 AM
ISP West was the place I bought Fuchs center caps from that didn't fit well, way too tight. I steered
clear of his bolts too and got genuine bolts used. 914 Rubber's fuchs center caps were perfect.
Not happy with Pimpride/ISPWest in my experience.....
Posted by: McMark Jan 16 2013, 11:07 AM
No it's horrible.
Runout at the seat, nearest the flats 0.35mm (0.014")
Runout at the contact patch worn silver by previous torquing was 0.55mm (0.022")
I'm doubtful this was installation or usage error. I can really only see this being a manufacturing defect (loose tolerances) because they are all the same.
When I was unbolting the wheels with an impact driver I noticed more rotational wobble than usual. If you were using a socket wrench you would never notice. Once I realized what was going on, you could easily see the problem when tigthening the lugs. You could see the gap between the bolt and the wheel would vary significantly while screwing it in. Every half turn the gap would go from small to big, then go back again.
Posted by: McMark Jan 16 2013, 11:21 AM
Posted by: ConeDodger Jan 16 2013, 11:31 AM
Mark, Looking at this new video, could they have been over-torqued causing a twist just at the head?
Posted by: Bartlett 914 Jan 16 2013, 11:35 AM
Seeing that last video shows that they are pretty bad. If they came that way or were bent later is unknown.
Posted by: ednosnaws Jan 16 2013, 03:06 PM
Wow....I'm looking to either replace the bolts which just don't look good (chrome is pitted) or switch to studs and lugs. This is obviously a concern to me. Any suggestions on where to get quality stuff? Or do I put it up on blocks and have them rechromed? 
Posted by: McMark Jan 16 2013, 07:05 PM
I just ordered a set of german OE lugs to try out. These are not Porsche lugs. The original 914 number is NLA, but supersedes to a new part number which is out of stock.
I'm pretty confident these will be of good quality, but will check them out regardless...
Posted by: euro911 Jan 16 2013, 07:21 PM
I'm more concerned with the safety issue, so I'm definitely going to check all of mine to see how straight they are, though
Posted by: r_towle Feb 7 2014, 10:09 AM
its interesting because from what I know, these would have been threaded on a lathe to begin life.
So, they must have been straight enough to do that process.
From there, not sure how they do the head, first or last....but it may happen during that operation which may require tons of force to form that head....
Rich
Posted by: Mikey914 Feb 7 2014, 12:00 PM
Mark, Looking at this new video, could they have been over-torqued causing a twist just at the head?
Only if these were not hardend and not the proper grade.
Posted by: Racer Chris Feb 7 2014, 02:11 PM
Chucking the hex end of a wheel bolt and seeing runout at the threaded end is no indication of poor concentricity of the ball seat to the threads.
More than likely the part was held from an extended shank on the threaded end while the machining was done and then the excess was cut off afterward.
That would ensure concentricity of the working portion of the bolt without having to machine the forged hex.
The way to accurately assess the quality of a lug bolt in a lathe is to tap a M14 thread about 20mm deep into a sleeve held in a collet, then bottom a bolt into the sleeve and measure runout with a dial indicator on the ball seat.
Posted by: Marty Yeoman Feb 7 2014, 06:07 PM
Chucking the hex end of a wheel bolt and seeing runout at the threaded end is no indication of poor concentricity of the ball seat to the threads.
More than likely the part was held from an extended shank on the threaded end while the machining was done and then the excess was cut off afterward.
That would ensure concentricity of the working portion of the bolt without having to machine the forged hex.
The way to accurately assess the quality of a lug bolt in a lathe is to tap a M14 thread about 20mm deep into a sleeve held in a collet, then bottom a bolt into the sleeve and measure runout with a dial indicator on the ball seat.
Posted by: McMark Feb 7 2014, 06:09 PM
If the ball seat was true to the threads you would see 'wobble' in the seat while spinning. Watch the video and see the seat is true to the hex. Plus I'm not sure what company would manufacture a thread and seat to a nice tight tolerance, then indifferently machine the hex. They either do all the machining right, or it's all suspect IMHO.
I don't dispute that holding the threads is far more accurate, but you can't honestly be suggesting that the bolt in the video may be GOOD!?
Posted by: SirAndy Feb 7 2014, 06:23 PM
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