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Posted by: spare time toys Nov 13 2004, 08:58 PM

I guess I have gotten used to the fact that everyone I know works on thier cars. I have four friends at work who have Porsches they work on them the Vette guys work on thier cars, heck even the couple of Vipre guys fix thier own cars. Well tonight I took me girl over to a friends house and knew her dad had a Porsche. Cool I think another P car guy I will get to know. He comes to the door and I ask him about his Porsche and tell him I have a 71 914. He says his is a Porsha ( correcting my yanky pronunciation) C4s. I say cool and tell him I am heading out to Cal. in a couple of weeks to get a 928 for the engine and put it in the14. He has the deer in the headlights look and tells me " I take my car to the dealer when it needs anything" I look at my watch whoops gotta go

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 13 2004, 09:04 PM

sir, can a have some whine with this cheese ????

some people ...
Andy

Posted by: ! Nov 13 2004, 09:05 PM

Did he have a penis growing out his head?

Posted by: spare time toys Nov 13 2004, 09:17 PM

I sorta doubt he has one at all

Posted by: nsyr Nov 13 2004, 09:21 PM

:dhead:

Posted by: SpecialK Nov 13 2004, 10:34 PM

Posted by: Rhodes71/914 Nov 13 2004, 11:06 PM

How do you own a performance car and have no interest in what goes on under the hood.

Posted by: airsix Nov 14 2004, 02:23 AM

You should hear some of the conversations I have (suit and tie environment). You work on it yourself? Like what kind of things do you do to it? I try to brush it off but if the questions persist I try to quickly sumarize but inevitably I get the 'deer caught in headlights' reaction. You can momentarily stun many white collar professionals by saying things like "Wideband oxygen sensor", "hall-effect crank-possition sensor" or "polar moment of inertia".

-Ben M.

Posted by: lapuwali Nov 14 2004, 03:08 AM

"How many cars do you have?"

"How many HAVE you had?"

"You do your own BRAKE work?! Boy, I'd be worried about safety!" (gee, thanks)

etc.

Nearly all guys seem to consider it necessary for proper "guyness" to know something about cars, but most, esp. in the "professional" world just aren't really car guys. I've generally tried to avoid letting on that I'm one unless I detect the signs of the sickness in someone else, and even then you have to be wary.

The non-car-guy reaction to question one (three) is usually something like "where do you put them all?" or "why?". The car guy will assume at least one doesn't run (which is correct), and that one or more might be parts cars.

The non-car-guy reaction to number two (22) is almost always incredulity, where the car guy will either say "you must have an understanding wife" (accompanied by a wistful look), or will be able to beat that number.

The most annoying are those suits who not only have the snazzy performance car, but can actually DRIVE IT, yet they still don't know or care diddly about what's under the coachwork. There was a sales guy a few jobs ago who drove a 750i, and could really make that thing move. At a company outing at a kart track, he absolutely kicked my ass, yet had never spent any time in a kart, or on a racetrack, and wouldn't know a slip angle to save his life. Just a natural talent.

Of course, one also regularly meets the types in the corporate world who think you're a pansy for knowing nothing about American football, but who've never heard of Michael Schumacher, let alone Mika Hakinnen, Marcus Gronholm, Petter Solberg, Sebastien Bourdais, et al.

In my experience, anyway, the majority of 911 owners have no idea what's under the hood. At my first job, one of the finance guys had an early swb 911 (in 1984, so this seemed to be an indicator of a true car guy). When I was vaguely considering looking at a 911, he told me to never bleed the brakes. Apparently, this was the only act of maintenance he'd ever attempted to his car himself, and he f-ed up the job. This convinced him that 911 brakes couldn't be bled by anyone but P-car mechanics, and even then required one of the high priests of the profession. Guy was a card-carrying member of the SCCA, and went to the June Sprints religiously (to watch), but had never actually been on a racetrack himself, and had virtually no mechanical knowlege.

Meanwhile, nearly every 914 owner I've ever met has done significant work on their car personally.

Posted by: SpecialK Nov 14 2004, 03:28 AM

Significant being the keyword here.....Amen brother !!

I was born taking stuff apart (just ask my older brother....I don't think one of his toys survived me ). Eventually learned how to put stuff back together....and with a 914, or three, I'll never have to grow up!

Wining or whining gives me a headache, and cheese binds me up like a set of Brembos, so screw em!!

Posted by: Red-Beard Nov 14 2004, 07:27 AM

It's been a while since I've really heard any of the NARP stuff, especially with the Blond.

I went to the Thursday night meeting of the Local Porsche interests in houston. Turns out, these guys are the $Million making D-heads, that drive 996s and are looking to move to a 997, etc. They guy that brought me inroduces me and says I have 2, an SC and 914/6. And one of those assholes has the balls to say, "Well, at least you have one real Porsche." And he wasn't talking about the "old" 911. :finger2:

Posted by: ! Nov 14 2004, 09:11 AM

James, James, JAMES....when you moved to "W" Land you said you was gonna be the Texas Mikey....did you wear your BITE ME shirt? Did you immediately get in the guy's face and dare him to show (as IF he knew) where his (oil) dipstick is?????

C'mon boy.....stick up fer yer NARP....

Posted by: Tom Perso Nov 14 2004, 09:16 AM

I'm a government contractor computer weenie and work with other computer weenies (both goverment and contractors).

Not a single one of these people work on their cars, most lease their daily drivers and take 'em in for oil changes and tire rotations.

I was just complaining about how stupid our local VW dealer is with oil changes for our new 2004.5 Passat (1.8T). I talked about doing it's first oil change and it wasn't too bad.

"You change the oil yourself on your brand new car????" "Aren't you afraid you'd screw something up?"



I talk about building my own motor and they look at me funny.

Later,
Tom

Posted by: rhodyguy Nov 14 2004, 09:27 AM

imagine what he's telling his friends that own real porsches.

kevin

Posted by: Joe Sharp Old Nov 14 2004, 09:53 AM

Yestreday after the fun run, Linda (/L.) was complaining about her clutch adjustment. She didn't like the way her pro porsche macanack had it. So I told her to get out the jack and told her how to do it. After the 3rd try it was correct, and she went home with the clutch working right and a smile.
Joe

Posted by: /L. Nov 14 2004, 11:20 AM

Thanks to Joe Sharp, I have a better understanding of my little black beauty(72-914). Many hours of hanging with him while he put his engine back together gave me the chance to ask questions and being a third a hand has taught me alot. People (co-workers/friends) think I'm nuts. I have the NEED to know what the hell is going on with my car, I don't get taken at the mechanics shop when I do have to take my car in. I have alot of respect for the men that work on their own cars!
My Dad did and so I can share with my son. It's all good...
Linda

Posted by: xsboost90 Nov 14 2004, 11:20 AM

yeah its amazing how many people dont know basics of car ownership, let alone anything even close to complex. I work w/ a bunch of women mostly and i dont think any of them ever knew that not changing the oil for over 10k would mess the motor up, even the owner-a man- who has a $80k lexus two door thingy hasnt changed the oil yet-13k miles!!!!! Its amazing, and then i say i have two porsches and they look at me like im a millionare. Then talk about pulling the motor and stripping the suspension in casual conversation and theyre like WHAT!! are you junking it??? HOpeless.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: lapuwali Nov 14 2004, 12:13 PM

Ah yes, the Porsche owner = millionaire problem. And there's no point in telling them the total price for my two Porsches is $7000, because they either don't believe you, or they think it's just a rusting pile of parts. No point in trying to convince them that even with maintenance costs, you'll be spending a lot less money for a pair of interesting cars than they'll be spending just making the payments on their Camry.

Posted by: nebreitling Nov 14 2004, 01:25 PM

that's an interesting way of raising the car!


my gf's ferrari-driving-boss called my car a narp.

which is fine with me, because i can break it, fix it, and kick his ass at an AX on the same day.

Posted by: redshift Nov 14 2004, 01:27 PM

A C4 is NOT a performance car.




M

Posted by: J P Stein Nov 14 2004, 01:39 PM

Come on, guys. This is the lunatic fringe. Unlike the real world, gearheads are the norm here.

If I could afford it, I'd never turn another wrench.....cept maybe for old times sake

Posted by: redshift Nov 14 2004, 01:44 PM

I never really liked wrenching, but screwing has always been a favorite.



M

Posted by: nebreitling Nov 14 2004, 01:49 PM

LMFAO!!

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 14 2004, 07:07 PM

I don't know...I like to get my nuts torqued once and a while.

I also like putting my bolt into a fine thread hole as well....

Posted by: SpecialK Nov 14 2004, 08:00 PM

Hope you've got enough "grip" length for adequate "thread protrusion"......

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 14 2004, 08:03 PM

any of you hardcore MAC users out there remember that game ???

Andy

Posted by: drew365 Nov 14 2004, 08:26 PM

I remember the song. Can't think of the group right now. Red Rider?

Posted by: ppickerell Nov 14 2004, 08:42 PM

You know, not knowing shit about what is under the hood is not an automatic indication of a penis for a probiscus. Brad pointed out to me today that what I thought was a oil cooler under the engine lid of my 911sc was really the remnants of air con. Good thing I am not insecure!

Posted by: airsix Nov 14 2004, 09:56 PM

Soft Sell (cell?). One hit wonder.

-Ben M.

Posted by: nebreitling Nov 14 2004, 09:56 PM

what hell does that mean?

Posted by: ! Nov 14 2004, 10:08 PM

Red RYDER,,,,
Lunatic Fringe Tom Cochrane & Ken Greer
==============

Intro - synth plays Bm until [00:39] then Bm / Bm / Bm / Bm / A / / Bm

[00:58]

D Bm
Lunatic Fringe - I know you're out there
D Bm
You're in hiding and you hold your meetings
A Bm
I can hear you coming, know what you're after,
A Bm
We're wise to you this time, we won't let you kill the laughter

Bm / Bm / Bm / Bm
Whoa-oh, whoa-oh, whoa-oh


[01:41]

D D Bm
Lunatic Fringe - in the twilight's last gleaming
D Bm
This is open season but you won't get too far
A Bm
'Cause ya gotta blame someone for your own confusion
A Bm
We're all on guard this time against your final solution

[02:18] Riff

Bm G A Bm D A Bm G A Bm D A
Whoa-oh, whoa-oh, whoa-oh


[02:29] Solo over A Bm A Bm D Bm A Bm

Bm / Bm / Bm /
Whoa-oh, whoa-oh, whoa-oh

[03:10]

A Bm
Lunatic Fringe - you're not gonna win this time
A Bm
We can hear the footsteps out along the walkway
D Bm
Lunatic Fringe - We all know you're out there
A Bm riff
Can you feel the resistance, can you feel the rage?

Posted by: ppickerell Nov 14 2004, 10:46 PM

Dick head

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 14 2004, 11:14 PM

Hey- Hey

Good ol' Canadian boys!

Posted by: Eric_Shea Nov 14 2004, 11:23 PM

Ironic. The persecuted always persecute the most.

So everyone is supposed to be a wrench head?

Posted by: nebreitling Nov 14 2004, 11:26 PM

YES! EVERYONE

Buwahahahahaha

Posted by: MattR Nov 14 2004, 11:29 PM

I understand if some people dont have the time, resources, or know how to wrench on their own cars, but its something you should be ashamed of and not publically admit. If you have to go to jiffy lube to change oil, you should NOT be driving a porsche. Oh well, I give my toyota friends a hard time for not replacing their struts and basic maintenece. I feel like if you save on labor, its just more money you can put into better parts.

Posted by: Brett W Nov 14 2004, 11:29 PM

I don't understand what non-car people do on the weekends. Life must really suck not to be able to get out and work in the shop. I have to be building something. Fabrication or deconstruction is a way of life.

I have talked to non-car people (the great un-washed) and don't get it. It ain't that scary to open the hood.

Some new cars don't specify an oil change interval until 10-15k miles. The Boxster had something like a 10k mile oil and filter change. With Synthetics and such an engine can go much longer.

Posted by: anthony Nov 14 2004, 11:46 PM

I do my own wrenching as a means to and end but I'd rather be driving my Porsches rather than taking them apart.



If someone is smart enough NOT to take a Porsche to Jiffy Lube they are OK in my book.

Posted by: grantsfo Nov 15 2004, 12:52 AM

I bring my Boxster to the dealer for everything since it is under warranty and I dont have a garage to work on the car. Also saves me a trip when they find warranty work. I think many 996/997 drivers take same approach. I do basics on my current 914, but frankly I would rather pay a good 914 mechnic to work on my car. I use to do all the work on my past 914's, but I find I just get frustrated with lack of garage and tools where I live now.

I think a variety of people enjoy Porsches (Porsha and Porsch). Some are mechanically clueless, but they still enjoy their cars. I dont think you have to know how to wrench on a car to be part of the "in club".

Posted by: RON S. Nov 15 2004, 06:08 AM

Yea those whine & cheesers really reak in my book.
Check book mechanics are all they really are.
They buy their way into a hobby and then show up at car shows and other events wearing their pitiful kaki shorts and polo shirts acting as if they are really into what's going on around'em.You usually see'm wearing a brand new ballcap,It's there to keep the B.S.their full of from spewing outa their head and exposing them for what they are.They wouldn't know a wrench from a hammer even if ya hit'em with it.Never work on nothing,always paying someone to do everything for them.
They almost always are condescending to the rest of us
That actually have done a ground up resto.
These are almost always the guys that you see at a Barrett-Jackson auction sellin some car advertised as having 50K worth of work done to it and taking home a check for 25k.
No real love for a marque,just spending money trying to be cool,but knowing theier not when they get home and look in the mirror.
R

Posted by: Brad Smith Nov 15 2004, 09:07 AM

OMG! Am I f'ing up my Jaguar? I only change the oil every 10,000 miles. (That's the factory schedule.)

Oh... and I take to to the dealer, since it's factory paid.

Does that make me a "wine and cheeser?"

Let's see... past projects: '68 Mustang, I rebuilt the engine, did the body work and paint, and reupholstered the interior (with kit parts- I didn't sew them.) '88 Mazda RX-7 convertible. Changed out the entire drivetrain to Turbo II components. Aftermarket radiator that I fabricated mounts for, electric fan, 3" custom exhaust that I laid out but had a shop weld up, modified the "6 port" arrangement.

I guess not. But I still take my car to the dealer for the (free) oil changes and other items.

Posted by: Brad Smith Nov 15 2004, 09:24 AM

Nope... that was "faded love" or something like that. "Lunatic Fringe" was Red Rider.

Posted by: aircooledboy Nov 15 2004, 09:58 AM

Actually, penis for a proboscis would be a dick nose, or a dick mouth (think about the possibilities on that one for a minute )

YES!!!!!!!! A RED LETTER DAY!! Only 17 years after I graduated with a minor in biology and I finally used something I learned.

Those who don't enjoy turning a wrench just can't understand those of us who do, and they never will. When I come into the office on a monday with my knuckles all busted up, or a trace of grease under my finger nails that I couldn't scrub out, the boss's reaction is always the same: "painters should paint, mechanics should fix cars, and lawyers should practice law". I've tried explaining it to him a few times over the years, but I finally realized if you have never felt the satisfaction that comes from making a broken car run, the idea that a person might not just have the ability, but truely enjoy wrenching on a car is inconceivable. ("You keep a using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" )

Posted by: ppickerell Nov 15 2004, 10:59 AM

I'm just shy of 50 years old and have owned many sports cars since my firs MGA at 17 years old. I wrenched on most of them (although I must admit I was a hack) until I hit my 30's when business and other hobbies took all of my attention. My business is successfull and now I have time again to play with cars. But at this stage in life, I just can't get it up for crawling under a car every weekend. I just want to drive! I can wrench vicariously through my son if I want. Checkbook mechanic, hell yes! I earned the right, and if you don't like it :finger2:

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 15 2004, 11:28 AM

Tainted Love and the group is Soft Cell

Ahhh...my punk/new wave days....
In the early eighties I could have passed as Andy's brother.

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 15 2004, 11:37 AM

Don't knock non-wrenchheads...some of us would be out of biz without them.

Everyone should have basic knowledge though....My wife knows more about cars than both her brothers. One is a total duffus, he can barely check his own oil.

But then she is the only one in her whole family that isn't a total :dhead:

(did I say that????.....)

Posted by: spare time toys Nov 15 2004, 11:51 AM

Its not so much he does not work on his car. Its the fact he looks down at me because I do. To me that is a true wine and cheeser. If you work hard and can afford to take it to the dealer for repairs great Im happy for you. I could also but choose not to I enjoy working on it. It is what I do to relax. Some play golf like my brother in law that game agrevates me to no end . I dont look down at him for spending time and money hitting a little ball then trying to find it so he can hit it again.

Posted by: lapuwali Nov 15 2004, 12:05 PM

Hear, hear.

There's a big difference between can't and won't. I have no problem with people who'd rather take their car to someone to have them do the work. To have NO idea what goes on there strikes me as baffling, however. If you can do it, but simply choose not to, that's one thing. To be incapable of doing it, and more to the point, to ridicule those who DO, is what I have a problem with.

I suppose the worst case are those people who've managed to blacken the Porsche brand in the eyes of most. Rich assholes who buy the things to lord it over the unwashed masses, rather than drive an interesting car. The unwashed masses, as a result, tend to assume that if you own one, you're a rich asshole, or a rich asshole wannabe.

Posted by: aircooledboy Nov 15 2004, 12:21 PM

That is the ironic part. Those clowns think they are better than the rest of us just because they can afford to hire somebody to help them wash the parts of their masses that they can't reach because of too many trips to the sunday brunch buffet at the country club.

I work on my own car, and I wash my own mass, and do a decent job of both, if I do say so myself.






Can ya tell I'm not real motivated to do any actual income generating work today.

Posted by: aircooledboy Nov 15 2004, 02:29 PM

Ooops, you said masses.
My bad. Nevermind.

Posted by: jkeyzer Nov 15 2004, 03:59 PM

I am seriously jealous of anyone who can own a 914 and not know how to fix cars. Because if that person were me I think I would have sold mine a looooong time ago, ther e is always something to fix.

Posted by: lapuwali Nov 15 2004, 05:03 PM

ANY 30 year old car, not just a 914. They all need about the same amount of fixing. I certainly can't afford to pay someone else to do everything to my car(s)...

Over lunch today, some (non-car) guy was complaining about his 10 year old Ford and how a mechanic was wanting to hit him up for $300 to repair the rear brakes + $700 to replace the timing belt. The car has 90K miles on it, so he's decided it's time to retire the car and move on to something else. It's obviously worn-out. Now, if he'd learn to do these two relatively basic things himeself, it would be about $200 in parts plus a weekend of cursing and swearing to get a car he'd probably use for another 5 years, versus $1000 in repairs OR donate the car to charity and spend $20K on something new.

Posted by: anthony Nov 15 2004, 06:07 PM

Your lunch friend obviously doesn't understand car payments and depreciation costs! $1000 is what, 2 or 3 car payments? If he buys a new car for $25K out the door, it's only going to be worth $15K 4 years later. That's $2500/year in depreciation plus the cost of financing. $1000 to keep his 90K mile car running for another 2 years is cheap.

I pick and choose my battles. So far I've been able to do everything on my 914. On my daily driver VW Jetta I've done everything except the 90K mile service and the timing belt. I didn't want to mess with cam timing and just wanted to know the car would be good for another 90K.

On the 911 I just bought I had the mechanic do a full service because he gave me a killer deal (free 2.5 hour PPI if I did the service). It wasn't because I couldn't learn how to adjust valves, timing, and change fluids on the 911 but it's nice to know that for $600 I got my 911 properly tuned, checked out, and all the fluids replaced. I don't need to do anything to it for 2 years now except change the oil and get to know the car. It's a nice feeling. And during the service he also found a leaky fuel accumulator. That could have easily been an engine fire so I'm glad I had a pro check it out this time.

Posted by: jim912928 Nov 15 2004, 06:47 PM

hmmm...guess we all have our biases! I'm a car nut and wrench on my own 928, 911 and 914. And yes I could afford to have them all worked on if that is what I chose to do. But I have a love for the engineering of the Porsches and the reward for self-accomplishment of fixing something for it's intended use. I also do my own home renovations with the same sense of accomplishment.

Some people enjoy their cars for other reasons (not just being able to wrench it or describe it's intricasies from top to bottom). I'd dare say some people just like to drive them, some people just like to look at them and yes some people like them for the statement they make to others. But, in just a different dimension..they are enjoying their cars like we do.

Does that make it wrong? No, just different. And different is what makes life fun and interesting!

Just think, if we were all the same and everybody wrenched themselves..there would be no market for paid mechanics!

So, do I have a problem with...let's say another porsche owner that doesn't understand what is under the hood? Nope, becausethey love their car for other reasons..different but yet the same. And for those occasions where I run into that...I get to give alittle knowledge to someone who maybe didn't have the opportunity growing up to see the mechanical side of life!

The rarely philosophic jim (jim912928).

p.s. way cool the other day a new 911 was driving towards me (I'm in my 914) and he waved and blinked his/her lights first!