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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Paint fail. Well kinda.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 2 2013, 03:59 PM
After my first shot at painting, it seems I might have been moving the gun a little too fast? 
I don't think enough paint flowed on to the fenders. This was after 4 coats, waiting about 20 minutes between coats. The paint store advised me to mix the paint and hardener 3:1 which I did through use of a graduated cup. I'm learning about painting and now I guess I'll be learning about color sanding. 
If anyone has done some color sanding, I could use some advice. I'll also consult with the auto body shop that has been advising me as well. This has all been fun and interesting and I'm looking forward to doing more. These pics show my results pretty well. Lots more work to do. 
Attached image(s)
Posted by: MoveQik Apr 2 2013, 04:06 PM
Ell-yut, I think it looks great. What brand pf bedliner material did you use? 
See you Friday!
Posted by: brant Apr 2 2013, 04:16 PM
I've been there more than a few times.
I've even tried different guns but its a skill
with color sanding, I've noticed that there is a window for it.
after a few days the paint continues to harden and the color sanding gets harder too
I also found when I color sanded, that you are likely going to burn through some edges as you learn. so a respray is a possiblity.
A polishing machine really helps bring back the shine after color sanding too.
brant
Posted by: kid914 Apr 2 2013, 04:25 PM
Hmmm! 
almost looks SATIN BLACK!! 
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 2 2013, 04:27 PM
Ell-yut, I think it looks great. What brand pf bedliner material did you use?
See you Friday!
Thousands of vortex generators just might make it go faster.
Posted by: bulitt Apr 2 2013, 04:51 PM
Almost looks like it was too cold. Was this a single stage?
Posted by: ThePaintedMan Apr 2 2013, 05:45 PM
Elliot, your initial diagnosis sounds familiar to me. Scotty or one of the other paint Gods will chime in, but it does look as if you moved too fast at your final coat. The last coat on each panel should be the thickest and very glossy. Its tricky to do on vertical panels and you will eventually learn to read the paint (to tell whether it's thick enough or about to run!) This is also why excellent lighting is a must.
Regarding color sanding, you need to give the solvents in the paint some time to flash off. 95% will flash in a couple days, but some paints take up to a month, depending on heat and humidity. You may be able to color sand that, if your clear coats are thick enough. But you will most likely end up with orange peel and/or burn through. The "pits/valleys" in that clear look pretty deep to me.
Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 2 2013, 05:55 PM
What type of paint are you using? Brand and type. Single stage or base coat/clear coat.
It looks blushed like lacquer sprayed in a cold humid climate. Did you add any reducer? the viscosity could have been too thick. 3:1 sounds like single stage urethane but you need one part reducer in that equation to help get rid of the cellulose.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 2 2013, 07:08 PM
What type of paint are you using? Brand and type. Single stage or base coat/clear coat.
It looks blushed like lacquer sprayed in a cold humid climate. Did you add any reducer? the viscosity could have been too thick. 3:1 sounds like single stage urethane but you need one part reducer in that equation to help get rid of the cellulose.
I used a single stage urethane paint. It's a General Motors paint. The store that sold me the paint didn't say anything using a reducer with it. I used it for the primer and I could see the reason for reducer in the primer 'cause it was a bit thicker. I used a paint gun with a 1.8 nozzle for the primer and a seperate gun with a 1.3 for the paint. There were some sections that went on really smooth and I think it's because I slowed the movement of the gun way down and let much more paint flow on. The GM paint I used goes on very easily but I was just too afraid of the paint running. An absolute learning experience for me and I believe not unlike welding it is as much art as science. I'll try to color sand it and if I don't like how that is, I'll block sand it and shoot it again.
I'll certainly ask about using reducer to get rid of cellulose. I expect to be really good at this about the same time I become a reallly good welder. 
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 2 2013, 07:10 PM
Hmmm!
almost looks SATIN BLACK!! I considered that. For about a second.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 2 2013, 07:13 PM
Ell-yut, I think it looks great. What brand pf bedliner material did you use?
See you Friday!
I used the same stuff you used on the rocker panels.
See ya Friday. I'll have to bring the wine tasting bus. 
Posted by: euro911 Apr 2 2013, 07:25 PM
...
Posted by: r_towle Apr 2 2013, 07:27 PM
Get some sleep, sand it down again, mix it right and paint it again tomorrow.....
You have nothing better to do, so keep learning.
Your second career could be as a body shop.
R
Posted by: sixnotfour Apr 2 2013, 07:28 PM
Correction....Painter Failure
try and try again...
Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Apr 2 2013, 07:42 PM
Posted by: Racer Chris Apr 2 2013, 07:43 PM
Correction....Painter Failure
try and try again...
There's a narrow window between too wet and too dry.
The first coat sets the scene for the rest of the paint job.
Posted by: saigon71 Apr 2 2013, 07:44 PM
Wish I had some advice, but instead I am following this thread closely as I will be painting in the next few months. Plese keep it updated. Above all - good luck!
Posted by: 76-914 Apr 2 2013, 08:00 PM
Looks like it wasn't wet enough. How far away was the guns tip from the surface? Get a practice piece, some very good lights (daylight ain't good enough for our old eyes). Place the lights at an angle to the piece being sprayed so that you can see the reflection of the light bulb off of the paint your laying down. This helps with the speed control because you will see the light reflect off of the wet surface. If you want to sand it get some packs (as in 60 packs) of some 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000 wet/dry and a little soapy water and start buffing orrrrrrrrrrrr rough it up and shoot it again. Also, a viscosity gage is cheap. One other thing. Your paint store should give you some mixing tips for the paint your using when you tell them the expected temp for the shoot day. Just generally like 70, 80, 90 degrees. ps I think your about 30 yr's too late with the respirator.
Posted by: scotty b Apr 2 2013, 08:21 PM
Jesus jumped up cowshit man !! Were you about 2 feet away from the car as well ?
Seriously. give it a day or 2 to setup. Wet sand it with 600, it will only help to make it fltter and smoother.
Please post a pic of the paint can. GM paint doesn't tell us anything, I've never heard of a base clear that doesn't get reduced, and even on single stages that don't call for reducer, I still reduce it. It lays out slicker BUT is also easier to run. 1.3 tip is fine for base and or clear. I personally use a 1.4 for base and single stage, and a 1.3 for clear only, but either is well within the realm. You HAVE to watch the paint as you lay it down, watch how it flows, watch for any reacitons, and if something doesn't look right STOP right there. Yeah, it takes a lot of learning curve to be able to work with different paints, differing temps, consitions etc, but it isn't rocket science. think of your first coat as a rough draft for the fianl copy. Put it on dry ( med wet ) let it setup for a bit ( until it is nice and stringy to the touch ) then put the subsequent coats on heavier each time, giving more setup time inbetween. If I tell you any more, you'll run it 
FWIW, we all have our days. I have a 64 Falcon I shot last thursday I am having to wet sand buff the whole thing due to my filter setup f-ing me over in the middle of clearing. I ended up with 10 lbs of air pressure at the gun by the second coat and had to finish. SUPER reduced the last 2 coats, and slowed down to the point I would normally have had Niagra falls down the side of the car, just to get it on and layed out to a point I could work with it 
Posted by: scotty b Apr 2 2013, 08:24 PM
also you say 3:1 so I assume it is single stage ? With a 1.3 tip, I'd go with 3:1:1, or 3:1:.5 if you want to play it safe
Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 2 2013, 09:18 PM
also you say 3:1 so I assume it is single stage ? With a 1.3 tip, I'd go with 3:1:1, or 3:1:.5 if you want to play it safe
GM paint could mean a factory pack pre-mixed and sold as is. It is a less costly way to purchase paint. All it means is the paint is mixed at (for instance) the Du Pont plant to a specific formula that should be a blend-able match to a specific year, make and model GM.
If it is Du Pont single stage urethane the reduction is 3:1:1 You need reducer. It would have changed the whole finish. Not saying it would have been better but at least it would have flashed slower and developed a shine.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 2 2013, 09:40 PM
All good advice. I'll be taking a fender to the paint shop tomorrow and consult with my painting advisor. I'll try color sanding first and if that doesn't do it, I'll block sand it and re-shoot it with Scotty's recommendations. Thanks to everyone for the help and advice. I certainly need it.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 2 2013, 09:41 PM
also you say 3:1 so I assume it is single stage ? With a 1.3 tip, I'd go with 3:1:1, or 3:1:.5 if you want to play it safe
GM paint could mean a factory pack pre-mixed and sold as is. It is a less costly way to purchase paint. All it means is the paint is mixed at (for instance) the Du Pont plant to a specific formula that should be a blend-able match to a specific year, make and model GM.
If it is Du Pont single stage urethane the reduction is 3:1:1 You need reducer. It would have changed the whole finish. Not saying it would have been better but at least it would have flashed slower and developed a shine.Thanks Rick. I'll check the label on the can tomorrow and I can let you know exactly what brand it is.
Posted by: scotty b Apr 2 2013, 09:41 PM
also you say 3:1 so I assume it is single stage ? With a 1.3 tip, I'd go with 3:1:1, or 3:1:.5 if you want to play it safe
GM paint could mean a factory pack pre-mixed and sold as is. It is a less costly way to purchase paint. All it means is the paint is mixed at (for instance) the Du Pont plant to a specific formula that should be a blend-able match to a specific year, make and model GM.
If it is Du Pont single stage urethane the reduction is 3:1:1 You need reducer. It would have changed the whole finish. Not saying it would have been better but at least it would have flashed slower and developed a shine.Calling factory pack GM would make sense I guess. I've just never heard it referred to by any specific make. Spies just had it labeld as " blue black " and it might have coverd 3-4 different manufacturers codes
Posted by: bulitt Apr 3 2013, 04:31 AM
You did a great job shooting the primer... 
Posted by: sixnotfour Apr 3 2013, 05:05 AM
Ell-yut, I think it looks great. What brand pf bedliner material did you use?
See you Friday!
Thousands of vortex generators just might make it go faster.
I resemble that remark
http://www.prfprod.com/info.html
Posted by: ThePaintedMan Apr 3 2013, 05:36 AM
Ah, knew Scotty, Rick and Chris would get you going in the right direction. Sorry, I assumed it was a BC/CC and the clearcoat just wasn't laid on correctly. Now I see what those guys are saying. If you don't get the paint thinned out enough with the reducer, it kind of curdles and yes, you'd really have to slow down to lay it on thick enough to get it to gloss. Maybe Scotty or Rick and elaborate, but doesn't the ratio of reducer in there also control the affinity of the sprayed coat to stick to the previous? I know a trick with single stage is, if you have to go back and respray something just outside of the 24 hour window, you can lightly scuff the panel and add a little extra reducer to help the paint cling to/interact with the previous coat.
As Chris said, the first coat definitely impacts how the whole thing comes out. That's why it is laid on lightly with as little texture as possible. Those paint molecules are doing the initial bonding with the primer and setting up the matrix for the rest of their cousins to bond together when you lay down successive coats. Of course, there is a limit to how much lateral bonding those molecules can do with one another (which we learned here can greatly be impacted by chemistry, like reducer ratio) and how much vertical bonding they can do with the panel being sprayed. It's a delicate balance to get the paint to lay down thick and glossy or end up as a new decoration for your garage floor. 
I commend you for learning how to paint in the first place! It is intimidating, and you're going to make mistakes, but I LOVE to paint cars!
Posted by: SUNAB914 Apr 3 2013, 01:51 PM
Nice ass on the girl!
Posted by: Starlack Apr 3 2013, 02:13 PM
If the images I see a tip from me. The color with which it is i have painted the viscosity is too high ..
A good result can AREAS where the paint to give 10% solvent.
What in the U.S., the viscosity is measured?
In Germany we have the DIN system is thus a good viscosity of 25 to 28 seconds at about 20 ° C temperature ....
The gun should have a 1.4mm tip ... (Nozzle)
Posted by: euro911 Apr 3 2013, 05:13 PM
Posted by: relentless Apr 3 2013, 05:32 PM
I remember that krinkle finish paint!
Nice old Honda 750 in the driveway.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 3 2013, 07:49 PM
For Scotty B et al, here is the paint I used. I tried color sanding a bit today (started going through to the primer) but I think what I'll do is block sand it with 500 or 600 grit and re spray everything. The local body shop has offered to let me use his paint booth for one of the fenders. He will watch me and see if he can tell how I'm effing things up. I have a feeling that the gun wasn't adjusted correctly. I don't thinkl the trigger was adjusted to let enough paint come through and maybe it went on kinda DRY. I'll make adjustments and try it again. So far my learning curve looks kind of like this. /
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 3 2013, 07:54 PM
also you say 3:1 so I assume it is single stage ? With a 1.3 tip, I'd go with 3:1:1, or 3:1:.5 if you want to play it safe
GM paint could mean a factory pack pre-mixed and sold as is. It is a less costly way to purchase paint. All it means is the paint is mixed at (for instance) the Du Pont plant to a specific formula that should be a blend-able match to a specific year, make and model GM.
If it is Du Pont single stage urethane the reduction is 3:1:1 You need reducer. It would have changed the whole finish. Not saying it would have been better but at least it would have flashed slower and developed a shine.I talked to the paint store guy today and he suggested If I wanted to add reducer not to go more than 3:1:.5 That paint was mixed at the store. Both he and the body shop guy said it should not be needed with this stuff. I'll keep trying.
Posted by: Chris H. Apr 3 2013, 07:59 PM
Hey Elliot, do you have an old door or body panel laying around that you could practice on? It's kind of like welding...best way to learn is by messing up some scrap metal..
Posted by: scotty b Apr 3 2013, 08:00 PM
Used that stuff quite a bit. I go 3:1:1 but then again, I'm a rebel without a clue 
It's decent stuff, glosses up well, as long as you get it on the car I'd suggest at least 4 coats if it flows out well, more if not. It is thin, and any single stage gets thinner with age as it gets buffed. One of its major drawbacks
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 3 2013, 08:07 PM
Thanks Scotty. I'll try this again. Second time's the charm. Right?
Posted by: balljoint Apr 3 2013, 08:16 PM
I like the idea of more practice. What do your other cars look like Elliot?
Posted by: euro911 Apr 3 2013, 08:44 PM
I see the problem now ... it says 'For Professional Use Only' at the bottom of the can
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 3 2013, 10:18 PM
I got your check for the hood for your 912 smart guy. I leave for the RT66 tour in the morning. My first stop is the Aquarius Hotel in Laughlin Nevada. "BLACK JACK". "HIT ME!" what the hell, it ain't MY money. 
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 3 2013, 10:20 PM
I see the problem now ... it says 'For Professional Use Only' at the bottom of the can
OK. I'll make the top side of your hood red and the bottom green.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 3 2013, 10:26 PM
I like the idea of more practice. What do your other cars look like Elliot?
Good idea. I'll practice on my Wifes BMW station wagon. Then hire a divorce lawyer. Or maybe a bodyguard.
Posted by: euro911 Apr 3 2013, 10:56 PM
Note to self:
Be nice to Elliot and don't make smart-ass comments in his posts ...
... until AFTER the G&R
Posted by: Chris H. Apr 4 2013, 08:25 AM
For once I was being fairly serious...so when I try to be funny it's not funny...when I don't it's hilarious... 
curse you internet!!!!!!!!
Posted by: balljoint Apr 4 2013, 08:39 AM
For once I was being fairly serious...so when I try to be funny it's not funny...when I don't it's hilarious...
curse you internet!!!!!!!!Don't worry Chris, your suggestion was reasonable and valid. Elliot is the hilarious one.
As for when you try to be funny? Well...
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 4 2013, 04:48 PM
OK, so color sanding is out. Looks like block sanding and a re-shoot.
Posted by: bulitt Apr 4 2013, 05:05 PM
OK, so color sanding is out. Looks like block sanding and a re-shoot.
Ae you going to practice first this time?
Posted by: SUNAB914 Apr 4 2013, 05:14 PM
I knew I would get some prevert. haha
Nice asss end though.
Posted by: VegasRacer Apr 4 2013, 06:42 PM
Elliot, bring your painting stuff to Rt 66. 
You can practice on Wills car.
Posted by: MoveQik Apr 4 2013, 06:56 PM
Elliot, bring your painting stuff to Rt 66.
You can practice on Wills car.Might as well. It gets torn down starting Monday.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 4 2013, 10:27 PM
Elliot, bring your painting stuff to Rt 66.
You can practice on Wills car.Too late. I'm already here. Well, Laughlin so far. See you all tomorrow.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 4 2013, 10:29 PM
Elliot, bring your painting stuff to Rt 66.
You can practice on Wills car.Too late. I'm already here. Well, Laughlin so far. See you all tomorrow.
Posted by: bulitt Apr 26 2013, 05:41 PM
?????
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 26 2013, 09:55 PM
I finally took the fenders and hoods back the body shop that was helping me out. After I block sanded everything, they shot it with about the same results. I don't know what the problem is. Something about what I might have cleaned the surface with. They weren't too busy when I brought it to them last week. Now they are very busy so my project gets sent to the back burner. They drilled out all the Dzus fasteners, they were getting bunged up with paint. They block sanded everything again and primered it and will shoot it next week. I hope. At least now it's in the hands of the proffesionals.
Posted by: ThePaintedMan Apr 26 2013, 10:10 PM
I finally took the fenders and hoods back the body shop that was helping me out. After I block sanded everything, they shot it with about the same results. I don't know what the problem is. Something about what I might have cleaned the surface with. They weren't too busy when I brought it to them last week. Now they are very busy so my project gets sent to the back burner. They drilled out all the Dzus fasteners, they were getting bunged up with paint. They block sanded everything again and primered it and will shoot it next week. I hope.
At least now it's in the hands of the proffesionals.What did you clean it with?
Posted by: kg6dxn Apr 26 2013, 10:17 PM
Seriously...
Posted by: Sneezy Apr 27 2013, 01:09 PM
You save a lot of time and money if you practice on a scrap fender first. Also, did you add reducer?
Posted by: Sneezy Apr 27 2013, 01:10 PM
Note to self:
Be nice to Elliot and don't make smart-ass comments in his posts ...
... until AFTER the G&R
Why not? You seem pretty eager to jump on the asshole bandwagon.
Posted by: '73-914kid Apr 27 2013, 01:30 PM
Note to self:
Be nice to Elliot and don't make smart-ass comments in his posts ...
... until AFTER the G&R
Why not? You seem pretty eager to jump on the asshole bandwagon.
Youre new here, aren't you.....
Posted by: Rob-O Apr 27 2013, 01:41 PM
Instead of just throwing out ratios for paint to catalyst to reducer, what you should really be thinking about is running that paint through a viscosity cup. You time how long it takes for the paint to flow through the cup. If it takes to long the paint is too thick. If it takes too short a time to get through the cup the paint is too thin. Here in the US a popular cup is the Zahn 2. Spraying with a conventional gun, a time of 18-22 seconds should be about the right viscosity, but that depends on your gun settings too. Most conventional guns can be adjusted to give a good smooth finish with that viscosity.
Posted by: bulitt Apr 27 2013, 02:07 PM
Instead of just throwing out ratios for paint to catalyst to reducer, what you should really be thinking about is running that paint through a viscosity cup. You time how long it takes for the paint to flow through the cup. If it takes to long the paint is too thick. If it takes too short a time to get through the cup the paint is too thin. Here in the US a popular cup is the Zahn 2. Spraying with a conventional gun, a time of 18-22 seconds should be about the right viscosity, but that depends on your gun settings too. Most conventional guns can be adjusted to give a good smooth finish with that viscosity.
But if the supplier sells you the paint, the catalyst and reducer for the temperature range you will be shooting in, and hands you the computer printout of % of each to mix- then why do you have to check for viscosity? Mix and spray? Spray on a big carboard box and adjust your settings. Am I missing something here?
Posted by: Rob-O Apr 27 2013, 07:29 PM
Nope you're not missing anything. But who knows what equipment or viscosity they based those ratios on. There are really only about four factors that affect how the paint will lay out. The paint (type and viscosity), the equipment (gun settings, air pressures, cleanliness of air), the environment (ambient temperature) and the painter. A possible fifth is prep of the piece.
When the guys at the shop sprayed your part, did they use your gun or theirs? Did they use your gun settings or theirs? You can start eliminating factors from my list by knowing what they did and didn't do. For instance if their technique was much different from yours, but all other factors were the se and the paint came out looking bad, you could probably rule the painter part out. I'm making a big assumption that they had good technique and knew what they were doing. Anyhow, you get the idea.
I hope you get it worked out!!
Posted by: kg6dxn Apr 27 2013, 07:51 PM
Am I missing something here?
Humidity, relative atmospheric pressure, field conditions, Elliot, etc...
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 27 2013, 11:51 PM
Am I missing something here?
Humidity, relative atmospheric pressure, field conditions, Elliot, etc...
That last one pretty much nails it.
Posted by: ConeDodger Apr 28 2013, 07:30 AM
Am I missing something here?
Humidity, relative atmospheric pressure, field conditions, Elliot, etc...
That last one pretty much nails it.
In science they call it 'the rate limiting factor.' In this case - Elyut
Posted by: euro911 Apr 28 2013, 08:34 PM
Be nice to Elliot and don't make smart-ass comments in his posts ...
... until AFTER the G&R
NEWBS
And anonymous ones at that
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 28 2013, 09:56 PM
Be nice to Elliot and don't make smart-ass comments in his posts ...
... until AFTER the G&R
NEWBS
And anonymous ones at that
Just about everyone on this web site is anonymous. Everyone hides begind a screen name. One of my pet peaves of the internet and internet forums.
Posted by: 76-914 Apr 29 2013, 08:05 AM
I hate to say this but that kind of attitude is prevalent in most forums I have visited. This forum is an oasis in and of itself. And for the most part people here conduct themselves as fun loving aficionados wanting to keep their cars running while helping others do the same. I like that. It helps keep my blood pressure down. Being from the poor south, as smart assed remark is an invitation to see my wedding band; up close!
Anyway back to the paint job. Couldn't help but notice your comment about prep. How did you prep before prime and/or paint. Can't believe a paint shop would stumble here, though.
Posted by: Chris H. Apr 29 2013, 08:20 AM
I hate to say this but that kind of attitude is prevalent in most forums I have visited. This forum is an oasis in and of itself. And for the most part people here conduct themselves as fun loving aficionados wanting to keep their cars running while helping others do the same. I like that. It helps keep my blood pressure down. Being from the poor south, as smart assed remark is an invitation to see my wedding band; up close!
Try asking a newbie question on NASIOC...wow... very low tolerance over there.
Posted by: euro911 Apr 29 2013, 11:01 AM
A two month old newb with a total of 11 posts calling someone here an asshole is clearly not with the program. I would suggest learning the game and knowing the players before posting irrational assessments. Otherwise, you won't get invited to ride on any 'band wagons', and will end up riding a lone donkey down the trail.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.
Black cars suck ...
... all the heat from the sun.
Posted by: 7TPorsh Apr 29 2013, 11:13 AM
Paining black cars sucks but I managed to paint mine in my garage...first time ever.
Good articles at carcraft.com and watch Overhaulin videos when they spray the cars.
I found out that I was holding the gun too far from the surface and moving too slow.
First coat was dusted then second third coats were held closer and slower.
Then lots of color sanding USING A FLEXIBLE BLOCK...this is essential for a flat look...both before and after prime and paint. Your fingers will call the Arthritis gods.
If anyone saw my car at G&R please comment. I painted it with $100 of Sherman Williams paint and materials and a $30 gun off ebay. One stage
Be patient. It's easy to rush when you're in a respirator and overspray is everywhere.
Posted by: 7TPorsh Apr 29 2013, 11:20 AM
Dusty here but you can see it's possible.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 29 2013, 11:24 AM
Nope you're not missing anything. But who knows what equipment or viscosity they based those ratios on. There are really only about four factors that affect how the paint will lay out. The paint (type and viscosity), the equipment (gun settings, air pressures, cleanliness of air), the environment (ambient temperature) and the painter. A possible fifth is prep of the piece.
When the guys at the shop sprayed your part, did they use your gun or theirs? Did they use your gun settings or theirs? You can start eliminating factors from my list by knowing what they did and didn't do. For instance if their technique was much different from yours, but all other factors were the se and the paint came out looking bad, you could probably rule the painter part out. I'm making a big assumption that they had good technique and knew what they were doing. Anyhow, you get the idea.
I hope you get it worked out!!
Maybe I didn't explain this as clearly as I could have. The only thing the paint shop did was offer advice. They helped me with prep techniques, help set up my gun and steer me to a paint supply store. I prepped the fiberglass by scrubbing it with Dawn dish soap, hot water and a scrubbing pad to remove the releasing agent. I sanded with 500 grit and then painted 3 coats of primer. The final finish paint is where things went wrong. The first time I didn't have the trigger on the gun adjusted to open all the way and the paint went on very dry. After block sanding everything, I shot it again with the result of bad orange peal. What it boils down to is, I am an amateur painter who is learning very fast. The next time I paint something I am confident it will go much smoother. And I will definately try this again sometime. Thanks to everyone for all the advice and encouragement.
Cheers, Elliot
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 29 2013, 11:27 AM
I hate to say this but that kind of attitude is prevalent in most forums I have visited. This forum is an oasis in and of itself. And for the most part people here conduct themselves as fun loving aficionados wanting to keep their cars running while helping others do the same. I like that. It helps keep my blood pressure down. Being from the poor south, as smart assed remark is an invitation to see my wedding band; up close!
Anyway back to the paint job. Couldn't help but notice your comment about prep. How did you prep before prime and/or paint. Can't believe a paint shop would stumble here, though.
The paint shop didn't stumble. Apparently I did. Now they have a shot at it. I'm guessing they will have better results.
Posted by: 7TPorsh Apr 29 2013, 11:37 AM
Paint should go on to a smooth finish...I sanded with 1200 then shot with paint...then finish sanded to 3000 grit; then machine polished 2 stages.
I think if you prep again up to 1200 or 1500 and a block then shoot. You will be better off.
Posted by: MoveQik Apr 29 2013, 11:46 AM
Just about everyone on this web site is anonymous. Everyone hides begind a screen name. One of my pet peaves of the internet and internet forums.
This isn't totally true Ell-Yut. I make fun of you in person every chance I get.
Posted by: r_towle Apr 29 2013, 01:08 PM
did you say that the paint shop did it with the same results and now they are talking about what you prepped with?
I think its the paint that needs to be questioned, not the people and process.
rich
Posted by: JRust Apr 29 2013, 01:37 PM
I think you just need to have a steak Elliot 
That will fix everything 
Posted by: gothspeed Apr 29 2013, 01:56 PM
those rear flares look wider than 'stock' GT flares ........ did you widen them ?
EDIT: oops, just noticed they are fiberglass, still ... are they wider?
Posted by: Spoke Apr 29 2013, 03:12 PM
I had the same orange peel results when I painted my 914 after the accident. No matter what setting on the gun and paint:hardener:reducer ratios, I just couldn't get a smooth finish.
Later I found out that I had a reducer for 70F temps. I painted in the summer in the garage with doors closed. I estimated with 95F temps outside, it had to be around 100F+ in the garage.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Apr 29 2013, 05:11 PM
Just about everyone on this web site is anonymous. Everyone hides begind a screen name. One of my pet peaves of the internet and internet forums.
This isn't totally true Ell-Yut. I make fun of you in person every chance I get.
And you are??
Posted by: scotty b Apr 30 2013, 06:03 AM
Paint should go on to a smooth finish...I sanded with 1200 then shot with paint...then finish sanded to 3000 grit; then machine polished 2 stages.
I think if you prep again up to 1200 or 1500 and a block then shoot. You will be better off.
1200 is WAY too fine for a final sanding before the base goes on. 600 is ideal, 1000 max. Above that and the base coat has little to grip to. At 1200 you're risking the base peeling loose of the primer at some point in the future.
Posted by: bulitt Apr 30 2013, 06:10 AM
Paint should go on to a smooth finish...I sanded with 1200 then shot with paint...then finish sanded to 3000 grit; then machine polished 2 stages.
I think if you prep again up to 1200 or 1500 and a block then shoot. You will be better off.
1200 is WAY too fine for a final sanding before the base goes on. 600 is ideal, 1000 max. Above that and the base coat has little to grip to. At 1200 you're risking the base peeling loose of the primer at some point in the future.
Ok Scotty, we are learning here. Whats the proper grit before-
Primer on metal?
Primer on FG?
Base coat you said 600
Clear coat -shoot directly over base within manuf. time limit, or sand with ?grit?
Thanks!
Posted by: 7TPorsh Apr 30 2013, 11:36 AM
Paint should go on to a smooth finish...I sanded with 1200 then shot with paint...then finish sanded to 3000 grit; then machine polished 2 stages.
I think if you prep again up to 1200 or 1500 and a block then shoot. You will be better off.
1200 is WAY too fine for a final sanding before the base goes on. 600 is ideal, 1000 max. Above that and the base coat has little to grip to. At 1200 you're risking the base peeling loose of the primer at some point in the future.
Maybe a little smooth but I dusted the first light coat and let it dry for grip...looked rough at that point. then did the second coat and it went on smooth again. Still amazed how it came out for my first and only time painting anything bigger than a model.
3 coats and lots of sanding and polishing. 5 years and no peeling...a few chips here and there from my stupidity.
I am not professional and am happy with the results. Total spend was like $110 for paint and gun; compressor I had.
Posted by: 7TPorsh Apr 30 2013, 11:40 AM
Actually my first attempt was a roller job...DON'T DO THIS unless you like sanding and prepping everything twice. 
Posted by: Andyrew Apr 30 2013, 12:03 PM
Am I missing something here?
Humidity, relative atmospheric pressure, field conditions, Elliot, etc...
Then there is the unidentifiable issues... I went through this painting Peters car. I ended up faulting crappy paint and we just went with it. I still dont know what happend on that one. I still havent come across that issue again..
Posted by: euro911 May 14 2013, 01:31 AM
Well ... ![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
...
(I haven't been paying attention lately)
Posted by: Elliot Cannon May 14 2013, 09:57 AM
did you say that the paint shop did it with the same results and now they are talking about what you prepped with?
I think its the paint that needs to be questioned, not the people and process.
rich
As it turns out, the paint was bad after all.
The body shop used it on a scrap hood and it turned out really crappy. The painter said he could tell from the way it came out of the gun, that something was bad wrong. They bought more of the same paint, shot it with the same gun and it went on perfectly. The guys from the paint store looked at it, decided it was bad (they said it didn't even smell right)? and gave me more paint. Hopefully they will shoot it again this week. Kind of a bummer that my first attempt at this was hampered by some shitty paint.
Posted by: r_towle May 14 2013, 11:24 AM
sucks when its not your fault
Great you are learning...now you know what "good paint" should smell like....not that it will come in handy in the future.
rich
Posted by: ruby914 May 14 2013, 08:03 PM
sucks when its not your fault
Great you are learning...now you know what "good paint" should smell like....not that it will come in handy in the future.
rich
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Posted by: moparrob May 15 2013, 09:24 AM
"No way dude, that paint looked fine when I sold it to you..."
Posted by: 76-914 May 15 2013, 01:57 PM
Really, the Dude mixing your paint didn't catch that. Mix some brake fluid in with his car polish.
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