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Posted by: treborzerimar Jun 29 2013, 11:25 PM

If I was to remove a pair of pop-up lights and swap in a fiberglass hood that does not have the headlight cut-outs...... could you install lights in the fog light cut out ion the bumper with lights that would work well as headlights???

Street use.... although I almost never drive at night. I know this is done for race applications where the pop-up delete saves weight, etc. Just not sure it's a good idea for the street.

.... wondering because of a few opportunities that have presented themselves.

Cheers!

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jun 29 2013, 11:27 PM

Not legally by DOT minimum height regulations.

The Cap'n

Posted by: kg6dxn Jun 30 2013, 12:12 AM

In CA, the center of the headlight must be 22" off the ground. With that said, I drove for 1 year using only the driving lights after an accident damaged the right side pop up. It all depends on the police in your area.

On my current project, I have Nissan 240sx lights modified to fit in the pop up space. I'm not a fan of the look or drag created by the pop up lights.

Posted by: dlkawashima Jun 30 2013, 01:17 AM

Another option is headlights in the turn signal buckets, although I'm not sure how effective they are.

Check out the neo914-6 build:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=37568
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=35304

Posted by: treborzerimar Jun 30 2013, 09:34 AM

Thanks all.... I really like the look of the pop-up delete hood...... HHmmm.....

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jun 30 2013, 12:33 PM

I like the pop-up headlights. I always thought they were a unique part of the car. Not many new cars have them. The pop-up head lights are only exposed to the elements when they are being used.

Posted by: larryM Jun 30 2013, 12:37 PM

YES- check this car for an idea- an ORIGINAL euro 914-6 GT now registered in CAlifornia

http://www.greenporsche.com/

fwiw - it would be a very slow day on the backroads that you'd ever get pulled over for a headlite height check

p.s. the driving lights in my GT front "bumper" are 5-14/ Hella 100-90W - also as installed in Germany

.

Posted by: Rand Jun 30 2013, 06:40 PM

I guess if you drive with the lights on all the time (not a bad idea). But typical daytime driving with the lights down has less drag than yours.

I always wanted to delete the popups on my first car. I wanted to do a turn signal bucket idea like Felix started. (Did he ever finish that car???)

Then later I came to appreciate the popups as a unique feature to the car and I would not rob that from a 914 again, no more than I would convert a Mercedes Gullwing to side-opening doors.

Posted by: mr914 Jun 30 2013, 08:37 PM

Saw this one last year at a Hot Rod magazine car show in CA last year

Brand of the lights was "Catz eyes" I think



Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Grelber Jul 5 2013, 12:33 PM

Is there a source for the hoods without the headlight cutouts?

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jul 6 2013, 12:39 AM

Try here. https://www.gt-racing.com/products-page/914-parts/page/2/

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jul 6 2013, 12:40 AM

Or here. http://www.qrsfiberglass.com/

Posted by: Pursang Jul 6 2013, 01:05 AM

+1. I like the look of the car as built. There are some nice customs out there but I still think the original looks the best. I put OEM driving lights in place of the fog lamps. They were an unusual opportunity years ago when Pelican ran across a shipping container with many different parts. I use them at dusk but still pop up the headlights if driving at night.

Posted by: Dasnowman Aug 8 2013, 11:17 PM

I have been thinking about this mod, I like the pop up head lights but on most part want to shave some weight. Car will mainly be an autocross/ track car but neevr know when I might do a hot summer night cruise.






http://s156.photobucket.com/user/dasnowman1/media/Porsche%20914/null_zpsdf94fdda.jpg.html

http://s156.photobucket.com/user/dasnowman1/media/Porsche%20914/null_zps6f1b9db2.jpg.html

http://s156.photobucket.com/user/dasnowman1/media/Porsche%20914/null_zps59c95361.jpg.html

http://s156.photobucket.com/user/dasnowman1/media/Porsche%20914/null_zpsdf94fdda.jpg.html

Posted by: Jetsetsurfshop Nov 26 2013, 10:22 AM

So... How much do the headlight buckets weight?

Posted by: MoveQik Nov 26 2013, 10:42 AM

If drag is a primary concern, wouldn't this mod create more drag than a smooth headlight cover? Ok, at night with the lights up that isn't the case but how often are you racing at night? Just curious.

Posted by: 2mAn Nov 26 2013, 01:33 PM

has anyone considered doing something smaller like the rectangular lights on the slantnose Porsche? Thats the idea Ive had taking up space in my brain

Posted by: Eddie914 Nov 26 2013, 02:54 PM

Sure! See my avatar.

My teener has been street driven like this for many years.

Posted by: euro911 Nov 26 2013, 03:32 PM

I'm not a real fan of the pop-ups either. I envisioned lights in the turn signal buckets way back in the '70's, but there weren't really any options back then. Now days, there are a several options with halogen projectors and LEDs.

It's just too bad that the mod requires the headlight buckets to be removed for the front deck lid to fit properly ... otherwise just reinstalling the OEM lid and the headlight assemblies would take it back to original pretty easily.

I would do this mod to my '75, but our '71 will stay pretty much bone stock.

Posted by: Mike Bellis Nov 26 2013, 07:21 PM

Always!

Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 26 2013, 08:56 PM

Question, and slight hijack that may matter to the OP:

Would people be interested in a simple kit that would allow you to adjust how far your lights pop up? This would allow for smaller lights and a lower profile. I could likely design and build such to be completely adjustable to fit any sizes up to full size. I would try to make it go up and down without having to go the full opening of the original. This could perhaps be accomplished with some modifications to the assembly itself. I would be happy to work on this and offer it up to the community if there were a want.

Posted by: Mike Bellis Nov 26 2013, 09:40 PM

I think it would be cool. I think it is just a matter of geometry. Then figuring out how to mount a lamp.

Please proceed...

Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 26 2013, 10:00 PM

Geometry would have to be specific, and I could manufacture new parts for each application. I figure electronic controls would be easier and universal....maybe

Posted by: euro911 Nov 26 2013, 10:25 PM

That would be a cool project, Mike.

Posted by: doorknobcollector Nov 26 2013, 10:38 PM

Dr Evil, is what you are proposing a "sleepy eye" modification like the 240 and 300 Z crowd seem to like?



I am not saying I am interested, but I would be interested just to see what it looks like... I think it would skirt the line between modern and ricer-boy pretty closely.

Posted by: dfelz Nov 26 2013, 10:39 PM

I have been thinking about an idea that would be similar to what your thinking. I would want the stock look when no headlights are needed, then have the lights pop up just slightly and look similar to what mikes lights look like, except with a top. It would be a fixed height though not an adjustable, i figure that usles for me, and it would simplify the mechanism.

Mike, I saw you said the housing was a modified 240 housing, but what about the lights? one of those looks like a halo...donnt think the stock 240s had those

Posted by: dfelz Nov 26 2013, 10:40 PM

yes!! thats what i was talking about, when i hit the reply button your post wasnt there yet, but that is the exact look i wanted. good pictures

Posted by: doorknobcollector Nov 26 2013, 10:55 PM

yes!! thats what i was talking about, when i hit the reply button your post wasnt there yet, but that is the exact look i wanted. good pictures
[/quote]

Happy to help--I am the only P-car guy here, and a few of my friends like to mess with the Nissans, so that is what "popped" to mind. I think the switch to a square projector beam light would require a lot of fab work to make look good, but has some promise if somebody put in the time...

Posted by: Mike Bellis Nov 26 2013, 11:08 PM

It's an aftermarket 240sx housing. They come with flood lamps. I cut and modified one of the lenses to house a projector lens. This is for the low beam so I don;t blind people on the road. I also modified both high and low to hold an HID lamp. This makes them super bright. The low beam is a 4700 Kelvin lamp and the high is a 5000 Kelvin. The 4700 is a white/yellow color like a halogen lamp. The 5000 is a bright white. When you get to 6000 Kelvin the light turns blue. Higher Kelvin turns purple.

4700 has the most reflective power except a true yellow. 3500 Kelvin is actually the brightest color and most reflective power but makes everything a shade of yellow. This is why many street lamps are yellow. The 6000 and higher look bright if you stare at them but actually have less reflection of objects on the road, making them more dangerous.

Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 27 2013, 06:46 AM

Yup, precisely. I have seen a 914 kit where the lights pop up only enough, but when you turn the lights off the actuators fully cycle so it opens way wide before closing. This seems silly.

The easiest way for the DIY person would be to change the geometry on the actuator. This is what Mike B was referring to. I am considering an electronic option that opens to a level determined by the adjustment of a knob, and then closes without going through the whole sequence (goes in reverse, instead). This gives me something to mess with in my free time....gonna be a while.

Posted by: badmiata Nov 27 2013, 09:20 AM

I can't seem to find it, but I can remember seeing a really nice setup for the Miata. It had dual lights in each popup. It looked OEM with just smaller lights.

Posted by: doorknobcollector Nov 27 2013, 10:49 PM

Yup, precisely. I have seen a 914 kit where the lights pop up only enough, but when you turn the lights off the actuators fully cycle so it opens way wide before closing. This seems silly.

The easiest way for the DIY person would be to change the geometry on the actuator. This is what Mike B was referring to. I am considering an electronic option that opens to a level determined by the adjustment of a knob, and then closes without going through the whole sequence (goes in reverse, instead). This gives me something to mess with in my free time....gonna be a while.
[/quote]

That could be pretty cool, if it looks professional. In my experience the 240 guys sometimes "overmodify"--to some (not all) in that crowd, I think having a long mod list is better than having very refined, useful, or well executed modifications. It would cut down drag for the Friday night cruise to Sonic, and I bet with a couple square projector beams or an LED setup, it could look pretty menacing... Let me know if you ever get around to it. I think it would look even better on a 944, however--no rounded edge on the front of the cover to design around, and only one motor/linkage to modify.

Posted by: euro911 Nov 27 2013, 11:26 PM

Another option I though of, but never pursued, was to find the correct size rectangular sealed beam lamps, form a metal (or mold a fiberglass) housing that fits inside the OEM bucket.

It would have a flat section on the bottom running forward towards the bumper top, then cover the whole assembly with 1/8" clear lexan. The exposed parts of the bucket would be hidden by painting those areas on the back side of the lexan ... either black, or color matched to the body.

Picture something similar to the '82~'92 Camaro's headlights

Posted by: dlkawashima Nov 28 2013, 01:08 PM

Read about this guy's efforts on the 924 board:
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=36088&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Check out what Deutsch Nine has for the 944:
http://www.deutschnine.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=porsche-transaxle&Product_Code=D9-944II951S2-DGTS&Category_Code=porsche-transaxle-944-turbo-s2-aero-dynamics

Posted by: dlkawashima Nov 28 2013, 01:26 PM

I have nothing to add .... I just like this picture!

Posted by: dfelz Nov 28 2013, 02:19 PM

Thanks for the link and pictures. I really like the red one!! Maybe i will go that route instead of the sleepy eye. I'm sure it would be more popular in the 914 crowd anyway... less ricer and still sleek and sexy. It wouldnt be tooo hard to manufacture as well. I have 3D printing access and can print the housing molds to use as-is or molds for FG or CF housings. This will be a fun project.

Posted by: euro911 Nov 28 2013, 03:25 PM

Not a fan of the dual round eyes myself, but the 944 guy's kit is more to what I had envisioned

Interested in tackling something like these, David?

Posted by: dfelz Nov 28 2013, 04:01 PM

The way I foresee the project, yes. I could make two housings, one to hold a single square light, and one to hold two circular lights, both of which would use the same clear cover.

Anyone have a vacuum forming machine (would be used to make the clear cover)? I was planning on making one myself, but if anyone already has one it would save some time.

Posted by: mikesmith Nov 28 2013, 04:14 PM

But given the design of the lights, it's what's easy (you just cut/remove some of the trace on the rotary switch that powers the lights as they go up...).




The other half of the challenge is finding the right light assembly to mount in your new, sleepy lights...

Posted by: boxstr Nov 28 2013, 11:02 PM

This shows it with the lights on.
Craig at CAMP



Attached image(s)

Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 29 2013, 10:08 PM

Nope. If you cut the rotary part of the switch if will either open or close, but the circuit will not complete. The geometry is the easiest way, but takes trial and error with most people. Thus, my question about a circuit that can be installed and give you whatever you want.

Maybe, once I get access to a headlight set in a car I can do some measurements and post them for different heights or post up a spread sheet. That seems the best way to go and would help the most.

Posted by: mikesmith Nov 30 2013, 02:56 AM

If you open up the gap in the "hot to open" ring, you can make it stop earlier. But I agree, this isn't really useful (plus you can get the lights 'stuck' more open than you want them if you flip them off then on again quickly.



I'm not sure that it makes sense to have a knob to adjust things - if you're going to mess with your lights there's a single target height that's 'right' once you're done messing with them.

From a hacking perspective, I think you could get away with a couple of Heim joints and some threaded rod replacing the pushrod, and a modified crank that lets you move the pivot closer to the driveshaft.



There are a couple of issues in the above; there's not much room to move the pivot closer to the driveshaft with the existing crank design, and the gearbox mount bolt clearance is kinda tight, but I suspect someone with fabrication skill wouldn't find that much of a challenge...

Posted by: euro911 Nov 30 2013, 07:22 AM

I think you've got it

It would take some experimentation, but shortening the actuating arm looks like it would do the trick.

Posted by: r_towle Nov 30 2013, 08:56 AM

Not looking at the moment, so please don't yell at me.

Lengthening or repositioning the other end of the long actuator arm would also do the same thing, and might be easier to fabricate?

Meaning that wherever the long arm is connected to the headlight assembly, move that pivot point farther away from the headlight bucket pivot point .....
Not sure if there is room, again, I am not looking at it, but I suspect it may be a lot easier than making that little piece bolted onto the motor....
A bar with a slot to start so you can fine tune the adjustment length, then once you get it right, make another bar with a hole.

Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 30 2013, 10:37 AM

The reason for an adjustment knob on the electical one is because you will not have the same height requirement as someone else. Thus, you will need to adjust to your height and someone else to theirs. The unit would bypass/trick the stock parts so that it would open to your set height (by the knob) and then when you close them it would go in revers. If it can not be made plug-and-play then it will be no better than making specific arms for different setups.

Posted by: mikesmith Nov 30 2013, 01:52 PM

This is why I was talking about finding "the" light assembly, since you'd want a single fixed angle change for a given light setup, and unless you changed your light setup (or built a cantilever to keep the lights always level...) you wouldn't care about adjustability.


With that said, making the motor do what you're describing won't be hard. It's externally grounded and should easily run backwards. Position sensing (i.e. what is the knob setting compared against?) will be more difficult; you could conceivably replace the existing switch rotor with one with a resistive coating, but unless you can find a stock part that's easily modified to drop in it's going to be expensive getting a custom built.

If you were willing to have a fixed number of discrete steps, you could build a simpler rotor replacement emulating a two-wire rotary encoder. There are a bunch of unknowns here (how fat is the contact patch when the fingers wear? how much lash or overrun should you assume?) but you could probably do this with a regular single-sided PCB and have them made inexpensively. Then it's just a pair of relays and a small compute device to read the encoder, knob and control signals.

Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 30 2013, 02:03 PM

Your words make sense for whatever design you have in your head. You don't know what I am doing/planning. The problems and parameters do not apply to what I would design.

Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 30 2013, 02:33 PM

Did not read last part. Smart phone and ADHD. Stepper with optocoupler is what I would use. Easy.