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Posted by: siverson Aug 3 2013, 09:04 AM

Hi all,

This thread:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=117048&st=80

has prompted me to share a project I've been thinking about for a while and now am just getting started on. I thought I'd share with you guys as we're typically like minded car guys...

I'm making plans to build a single-seat, mid-engine, street-legal sports car.

- Less than 1,600 pounds

- 600 horsepower Chevy LS7 engine (dry sump)

- Porsche G96 transmission

- Street legal, but should be a pretty amazingly track car as well.

- Several donor parts from a C6 corvette (e.g. suspension uprights)

- Can accommodate drivers up to 6'8" and size 15 shoes (impossible with other lightweight street cars (e.g. Ariel Atom, Caterham)). (I'm 6'6".)

- 105" wheel base. This is about the same as a C6 Corvette, and much larger than other lightweight cars.

- Fiberglass body styled after a "modern 1960s F1/F2 car" (e.g. Porsche 718, Brabham B19).

- Single seat, super simple. no frills. Very simple dash, no doors, no wipers, no a/c, no heat. But safer and more comfortable than a motorcycle.

The Ariel Atom, SuperLite Nemesis, Palotav DP2, Light Car Company Rocket all share some characteristics of what I have planned, but none are quite right and hit the mark for me.

What do you think? Any ideas or suggestions on what to change? Like it? Hate it?

And below are just some conceptual drawings I've put together. Nothing is "engineered" in these concept drawings.

-Steve

Posted by: Bob L. Aug 3 2013, 09:19 AM

Love it... can't wait to see actual construction.

Posted by: mepstein Aug 3 2013, 09:41 AM

OMG! Love it. can you figure out a way to base it on an early car to make it easier to register on the street.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Aug 3 2013, 09:58 AM

Nice! I think it has to be under 1500 lbs to go fenderless in CA. You may also have to reconfigure the headlights to meet DOT specs. Had I the money, I'd be all over one of those! BTW, there used to be a street legal F5000 (or some such) car in the Malibu area ...............

The Cap'n

Posted by: 7TPorsh Aug 3 2013, 12:13 PM

Conceptual drawing?....i thought it was real...excellent!

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 3 2013, 03:36 PM

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Aug 3 2013, 03:46 PM

You can do Atom fenders or 7 fenders easy. They are mounted to the suspension so you can't rub with them, and they hug right to the wheel.

Zach

Posted by: KELTY360 Aug 3 2013, 03:59 PM

I agree with the Cap'n (always a good idea) about headlight config. Seems to me the Chrysler Prowler had to spread the headlight mounts to comply.

Beautiful design....go for it!

Posted by: David J Aug 3 2013, 06:17 PM

While I know it never rains in San Diego (I grew up in Laguna Beach), won't CA inspection require windshield wipers to be street legal?

Posted by: scotty b Aug 3 2013, 06:20 PM

WOW

I've always wanted to build a classic open wheeled car. That is a VERY well done " retro " look

Posted by: Dr Evil Aug 3 2013, 06:57 PM

Do it. Let us know how you legalize it. I want

Scotty and I are going to make a belly-tank racer sometime in the future

Posted by: balljoint Aug 3 2013, 07:11 PM

Awesome project!

Posted by: r_towle Aug 3 2013, 08:46 PM

first quote
second quote.

Posted by: siverson Aug 3 2013, 09:38 PM

Thanks for the feedback. So any criticism or ideas? Things are much easier to change on the computer...

Here is what it would look like with narrow tires if I went a 4-cyl (Subaru or Ecotec). But I always seem to keep coming back to the big V8.

-Steve

Posted by: siverson Aug 3 2013, 09:39 PM

The original is approx 235 front, 305 rear tires, the narrow one is 205 front, 225 rear.

And yes, I actually did work on my 914 today. I'll get it done before I start on yet another gigantic project...

-Steve

Posted by: r_towle Aug 3 2013, 09:41 PM

Do something to widen the headlight location.
Put fenders on it.

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 4 2013, 06:25 PM

Are you going to title it as one of the 250/year "kit" cars? Or title it as one of the 1k/year "replica's"? If so are you going to claim is a lotus 7 base?



Thats quite a bit of power for that weight. Do you think you'll ever get it to hook up? On street tires I dont see you hookin up till 100mph... One advantage of going with a modern turbocharged engine with ~500hp is you can dial the HP from 250 to 500hp and make it gear specific. For example 250 in first, 350 in second, 450 in third and 500 on up. You have a chance at making 250 hook up in a tall first gear with 1600lbs. Especially with the lag of a really large turbo (You still wont feel more than a second of lag if its sized properly).

Unless you can manage AWD (you cant..) I dont see 600hp and (more importantly) 600+lbs of torque being transmitted to the ground. Ask around your area for a 500+hp FWD car and get a ride. This is the type of thing you'll be facing (Except the FWD wont kill you...)

My understanding for street legal is:

Windshield and wipers
All lights
Emergency brake
Fenders on the front/rear or mudflaps (You can probably title it with fenders and remove them, I never see any old 32's being ticketed...)

Posted by: Katmanken Aug 4 2013, 08:45 PM

Think you are quite a bit high on your weight. Drove a friends Merlyn Formula Ford a couple of times in the 70's and it was a whopping 960 lbs fully fueled. Of course the fuel bladder was the seat. In may ways, your open wheeled tube design is similar.

A couple of things to think about a tube bodied car. Getting in and out of something like that is not quick. You stand in the cockpit on the tubes, place your hands on the upper chassis tubes and begin walking your feet down into the chassis while stepping on the diagonal cross tubes. Make sure that you don't put any weight on the soft floor skin. Once you are in, it reminded me a lot of being jammed into a tennis shoe and tightening the laces. You are in a very confined space up to your chest, and can barely move. Getting out involves lots of snakelike wriggling and climbing back up the tubes of the chassis.

The Merlyn vented the radiator air down the chassis and out of the cockpit. In the summer, it was way worse than miserable. Cooled the car just fine, fried the driver. Did I mention that car used the tube chassis to run radiator fluid from the engine to the radiator and back again? You could get a really good burn if you weren't careful.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: siverson Aug 14 2013, 09:37 AM

Now with fenders, mirrors, and additional headlights that meet the minimum headlight height requirements.

It looks like I might also need a wiper, as ridiculous as that sounds...

I wonder if headlights mounted on fenders (unsprung) would actually even work. Too bouncy?

-Steve

Posted by: AE354803 Aug 14 2013, 09:45 AM

It might be easier to go 3 wheel design, although the drive-train could prove trickier if you stick with an automobile engine and transmission, you will qualify for the HOV lanes and the safety aspects should be easier to meet. If you throw a readily available motorcycle powertrain in there it should keep weight down and make parts/engine replacement dirt cheap.

I like the idea though, should be a fun project no matter what way you go.

You can find full safety requirements in the CA vehicle code (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/veh_code.pdf) See Division 12 Article 7 for motorcycle (you don't have to wear a helmet if it's fully enclosed and weighs more than 900 lbs and wider than 4 ft.

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 14 2013, 10:35 AM

Fenders look nice! The lights there might be perfect. Give you the minimum height requirement for headlights which I believe is 22"

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc24400.htm

Posted by: JamesM Aug 14 2013, 10:52 AM

<1,600 pounds, 600 horsepower, and zero downforce?

You're a mad man Wongburger!

Also, would it be possible to make it more phallic shaped?

Posted by: FourBlades Aug 14 2013, 08:24 PM

Cool concept, I like it.

I have thought having a can am car for the street would be fun.

Like a 917/30 or McLaren m8 but with 2 seats.

John

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 15 2013, 06:56 AM

Why fabre glas body? Why not aluminum? I could bang that out in aluminum. You could paint part of the body and polish the rest of it.

You could always do a vintage headlight station like the hot rod guys use only make it wing shaped and use a modern shape for the light.

I never liked the fenders on any of the 7's. They look like such an afterthought.

Posted by: effutuo101 Aug 15 2013, 08:19 AM

go with this motor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YAFMZyBPI4
I think that a V8 would be cool.

Posted by: siverson Aug 15 2013, 09:29 AM

> minimum height requirement for headlights which I believe is 22

Right. And 24" in some states.

> a vintage headlight station like the hot rod guys use

I'm not sure what you mean by that... ?

> I never liked the fenders on any of the 7's

I agree, but it is going to be needed to make it street legal.

-Steve

Posted by: monkeyboy Aug 15 2013, 09:43 AM

I'd call around to the hot rod shops and see if you can find the regulations. You may be a little low on the windshield too.

Mid engine should have enough weight to put the power down. As much as I like the V8, how much less weight is a turbo Suby?

Posted by: 69telecaster Aug 16 2013, 07:02 AM

Nice-looking, and recalling that it's 105" wheelbase, I'm intrigued. I would want to see the chassis/structural design before judging your choice of engine.