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Posted by: ky914 Sep 1 2013, 07:20 AM

New member but long time lurker. I have been given a 1973 914 with a 1.7 engine. Unfortunately, it is too far gone due to rust. I know the engine and trans were good when it was last driven over 5 years ago. It has been converted to dual Weber 40's. It hasn't been driven more than 50 miles in the last 20+ years.

For the last 3 years I have been looking for a chassis that is local, cheap, and rust free. I knew this was impossible. However, it looks like I just found what I was looking for. I am buying an abandoned project and getting the 74 chassis. The floor pans have already been replaced. Hell hole looks ok from the pics. Long's are said to be solid with some pitting. My fingers are crossed it is as good as it looks. Regardless, the price was right. I will be picking it up next Sunday and will post pics when they are available.

I know a ground up restoration is huge, expensive and potentially cause for divorce. Can some of the experienced people on here give me a broad overview of the reasonable steps to transfer everything from my parts car to the new chassis?

I assume I need to get the all of the body panels prepped and ready so I can paint before putting on all of the other parts. After it is painted and glass is reinstalled, I assume I will need to deal with getting the suspension and brakes in shape. After that, engine and transmission, etc...

Let me know what you think the proper broad steps are that need to be done. I am assuming the car doesn't need additional work to repair rust damage. What are the big items I have to buy? Do you think I need a complete rubber kit?

What things are necessary to buy?
What things should be bought and why?

Thanks,

Michael

Posted by: bulitt Sep 1 2013, 07:58 AM

Early 73 or Late?
Harnesses in both cars?
Sway bars?
You are in luck as the doors and glass are direct transfers (73 was a change over yr, hopefully window lifts are scissor style on both cars).
Make sure you are very gentle with the rubber seals as they are expensive to replace.
The targa roof and latches should transfer over.
Fuel tanks, expansion tanks should transfer over (not sure on the expansion/EPA stuff), wipers should be same. Determine if you have intermittants= different wiring.
Steering columns same, linkage orientation should be the same, not sure. You can put the entire rack,linkage,column, and wheel on from one car to the other.
Sideshifters in both.
Figure out which electrics you are going to use as the harnesses/connections are different from yr to yr. So probably be easier to use all the 73 stuff with the 73 harness, or all the 74 stuff with the 74 harness but some stuff will mix. DONT cut anything on the harnesses. They can be removed with patience. When you pull wires off a component (gauge as an example) wrap them all together with some electrical tape so you have a bundle for that component. Get a marker and write wire colors on each connection, or tag each connection, or make a drawing, document which wire goes where on each component- trust me, please, this will save you big headaches. Did I mention - DONT cut anything on the harnesses!
Get yourself an enlarged electrical schematic off Ebay or Amazon.
Be gentle removing the windshield they crack easily.
Put every nut and bolt in a baggie and label it.
Park the tubs next to each other and transfer the parts one component at a time, easier than removing everything for re-install at a later date. Easier than trying to remember how each part goes on.
Test components before re-installing. Put twelve volts to the fresh air blower motor so you know its good prior to reinstalling.
Threads on every subject in this site. Learning to use the search engine will help you immensely.

More from others in the know.

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 1 2013, 08:14 AM

you are bound to end up with some messed up hard brake lines.

you should probably replace fuel lines from nylon to stainless.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=110158

rubber brake lines should probably be replaced.
"http://www.pmbperformance.com/914brake.html

oem steering doughnut is probably wasted.
http://www.tangerineracing.com/otherproducts.htm

suspension bits probably are not excellent, but you can do a bit at a time.
all new suspension and rebuild brake parts will run about $2500
if you cant resto entire car - at least resto brakes and suspension - as best you can

do you have a front sway bar - may want one.

Posted by: Spoke Sep 1 2013, 08:40 AM

Nothing to add except

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Sep 1 2013, 08:51 AM

Lennies914 and I did this on his car swapping from a 74 yellow to a chassis 75 black!

It took about 6 months to prep, paint, refirbish suspension & brakes, glass, dash and swap out all of the parts from the wrecked car! We did it all in his garage including the paint!

The car won COM Aug, Sept 2012!

There was alot of time put into it over the 6 months but it was worth every minute that we spent preping the new chassis and refurbishing the parts before starting the assembly! Don't put something off on the chassis thinking "I will get to that later"! Just get it done up front and take your time!

Here is a photo of Lennies914's car!

Posted by: ky914 Sep 1 2013, 11:09 AM

Here is what I am picking up:

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 1 2013, 01:59 PM

QUOTE(ky914 @ Sep 1 2013, 10:09 AM)

Posted by: ky914 Sep 1 2013, 02:44 PM

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 1 2013, 03:35 PM

QUOTE(ky914 @ Sep 1 2013, 01:44 PM)

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 2 2013, 04:37 PM

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Sep 1 2013, 04:35 PM)

QUOTE(ky914 @ Sep 1 2013, 01:44 PM)

Seller stated that the Long's haven't been touched at this point and are good

I've never seen a car where the complete floor pan had to be replaced but the longs were solid.



As for making sure the car is straight, this might be of help:

http://www.914world.com/specs/bodydims.php

Posted by: ky914 Sep 9 2013, 06:11 AM

I picked up the car this weekend. After some measurements, it appears to be square. There are many little areas/jobs to be welded, but nothing that is horrible from a structural perspective. Some swiss cheese issues with the longs and some cosmetic updates needed, but I feel it is well worth it for the $250 price.

Posted by: Java2570 Sep 9 2013, 06:48 AM

For $250 you got a great deal! Keep posting photos of the swap....

Posted by: ky914 Sep 9 2013, 06:51 PM

We will see if it was a good buy or not over time. Here is a link to 100 pics of the car I just took. Plenty of little swiss cheese holes.

Album Link:

http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/kyporschenewbie/library/74_914

Posted by: ky914 Sep 12 2013, 11:07 AM

I would like some comments on the condition of my tub. I picked a few of the pics from the album. Hopefully it will be representative. What I am wondering is:

Opinions on the condition of the Longs: Average / Below Average / Must be fixed ASAP. I am not going for a concours restoration, but I don't want to put a lot of work into something that will be worthless in 5 years either.

Here is a pic of the worst part of the longs:



Hell Hole has had some repair already. What attention do I need to do here before I start a swap from my parts car?



Some bad spots on the door sills:



Some more questionable metal:




Is this tub in need of a ton more work? What are your suggestions? Any advice from the experts on this board would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Michael

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 12 2013, 11:27 AM

aside from the home made rear trunk pan - the hell hole might be an issue.

clearly some of the rust you are showing is non structural.

this is the thread I like to scare everyone with : )

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=16748


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Sep 12 2013, 12:56 PM

Just go buy a mig welder and an angle grinder tomorrow.
If you don't know how to weld yet, you will before you start swapping stuff on to the car.

First things first. BRACE YOUR DOORS! You are going to need to cut into your longs a little to clear the rust that Jim has pointed out. If you don't brace your doors, you will twist that new chassis. Lots of threads on door braces. Not bracing the doors is one of the biggest mistakes that noobs make when restoring these cars.

Good luck, we will help you along the way.
Zach

Posted by: ky914 Sep 12 2013, 01:17 PM

If I start cutting out everything that looks a little like swiss cheese, I will likely be replacing a huge percentage of the metal. I see rust evidence a little at the top of the windshield, in the trays under the headlights, in the fresh air vents behind the doors, etc... etc... etc... There has to be a point where it is ok to grind out the rust with a wire wheel, hit with metal ready or ospho to keep more rust from coming back and move on without cutting out chunks of metal.

I think you only learn where that line is from experience. Seems like the answer I am getting from the experienced people on this forum is you should always cut out the rust and put in new metal. If that is the case, my tub may be too far gone already and I am better off to resume looking for a better candidate.

Posted by: boogie_man Sep 12 2013, 01:24 PM

Do not like that rear floor pan at all but the good thing is you have access to all the bad areas. Go restoration design's web site to map out what you need like the battery tray kit and rear truck floor pan some of the smaller rust issues can be patched. If you change the rear trunk floor pan, you can also repair that rear body
panel to get it straight. You also get the jack mounts for the rockers where i've seen
people completly replace then or section just the lower half. As these guys said, brace and secure that car to keep it square and straight. Take your time and it will
reward you with a nice long lasting ride.


Scott

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Sep 12 2013, 01:37 PM

welcome to the madness

Posted by: ky914 Dec 8 2013, 04:03 PM

I found some time over Thanksgiving to visit my donor car and take a lot of pictures. I put an album on photobucket. If anyone is bored I would appreciate any feedback or comments. The album has 162 pics.

http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/kyporschenewbie/library/73_914

Posted by: mepstein Dec 8 2013, 04:19 PM

You also need to check out the passenger side rear suspension console. A known weak spot on these cars. They rust from the inside out so go hot and heavy with a big metal pick or screwdriver and flush out any weak spot. Failure of this piece will cause the rear wheel to lean in and fall off. Also check out the pedal reinforcement under the pedal cluster.

Posted by: PanelBilly Dec 8 2013, 04:25 PM

I'd mount the doors and see if the body lines up before bracing. Don't rely on anything being right.

Posted by: scotty b Dec 8 2013, 04:53 PM

You've got a lot of metal work ahead of you in either of those cars. Your initial car has the normal spots, but also has several abnormal spots for rust. The " donor " car is obviously quite compromised as it is folding at the door jambs.

Keep Andy's statement in mind as you progress

I've never seen a car where the complete floor pan had to be replaced but the longs were solid.

Posted by: Spoke Dec 8 2013, 07:02 PM

I don't have a good feeling about the donor car. There is a lot of rust seemingly everywhere. Even the engine shelf is missing the lip to hold on the sealing gaskets.

Plus the repair to the hell hole and battery tray does not look like it was done correctly.

The Swiss cheese look on the longs is a hint that the longs are gone. By the time you wire wheel these areas the amount of rust will become evident.

My 914 was a rust bucket but it is in much better shape than that donor.

My recommendation would be to pass on this one. $250 may seem like a good price but the amount of time, work, and $$ you will put into it will dwarf the initial purchase price.

Keep looking for a better car.

Posted by: FourBlades Dec 8 2013, 08:34 PM

QUOTE(PanelBilly @ Dec 8 2013, 03:25 PM)

Posted by: walterolin Dec 8 2013, 10:11 PM

Don't know if this is still for sale:

http://lexington.craigslist.org/cto/4206710356.html

Posted by: ky914 Dec 9 2013, 08:12 AM

Ok. I have heard enough concerns at this point. I plan to get the grinder out and look for rust on the suspension console, hell hole, the longs will be replaced if I use this chassis.

I will make sure all the body parts fit before doing too much more. I only have one door and it has a crease that needs to be addressed before it is mounted.

I will keep my eyes out for a better candidate if one is available. I think I can get most of my money back from some of the parts off this one if it comes to that. But I haven't given up on this one yet.

I appreciate the words of caution.

Posted by: ky914 Jan 11 2018, 09:31 AM

I can't listen to any of the experts. I am determined to make this project work. Next week I am going to disassemble the donor car. I have searched and cannot find any threads that cover a complete chassis swap. I need to take my donor car down to the wiring harness as I plan on reusing the wiring harness. From those experienced on this thread, what is the order for disassembly? Here is what I am thinking:

remove interior
remove trunk / engine lids
remove bumpers
remove doors
remove fluids
remove engine / trans
remove items from front trunk near windshield (gas tank and air handling etc...)
remove wiring harness
remove rubber seals and glass
remove remaining bits and pieces

I would like a decent order to enable me to be efficient. I have a week dedicated and a helper that is an avid air cooled VW enthusiast. Do you think this is enough time?

Thanks for your opinions.

Posted by: ky914 Jan 15 2018, 08:09 PM

As a way to document my process, I started removing parts today with another person. I was able to complete the following on our first day.

1. Seats,
2. Center Console
3. Backpad and firewall
4. Carpet
5. Exhaust
6. Bumpers (front and back)
7. Windshield Chrome Trim
8. Rear trunk targa clip holders
9. Speaker mounts
10. Tail Lights
11. Seat Belts
12. Rear Trunk Rubber Trim
13. Rocker Covers
14. Aluminum sill covers
15. Trunk Lids
16. Headlights
17. Side Markers and front blinkers.

So far about 8 hours work for 2 people. Nothing has been too challenging so far except removing the seat belts. The longs were so rusted out that the metal was fused with the bolt and was just ripping apart the long where the bolt was anchored. Ended up cutting out the bolt from the long where the metal wouldn't just pull out. Trying to figure out how to revove the headlight assembly was a bit of a puzzle also, but not difficult.

Posted by: ky914 Jan 17 2018, 06:58 AM

Day 2 and The following was done.

1. Headlight motors
2. Fog Lights
3. Horns
4. Pull light wiring harness in front trunk
5. Loosen tension on rear trunk torsion bars
6. Windshield
7. Targa trim and sail panel mouldings
8. Rear glass
9. Gas tank
10. Air handling motor and defrost vents / tubing
11. Trunk lid

We worked about 5.5 hours yesterday. Still not any real issues or major slow downs. It took awhile to figure out the headlight relays just pushed out. My fog lights were hard wired into the wiring harness with no connector that I could see, so I had to cut the wiring harness which surprised me and I didn't want to do it, but had to keeo moving forward.

Got out the windshield without breaking it. Unfortunately, the main targa top seal wasn't so lucky.

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 17 2018, 09:20 AM

Did you ever do any of the metal remediation on the new tub? has there been degradation over the past 5 years?
At least hit the soft spots with a wire wheel to see how far they go?

Everything is fixable!

Zach

Posted by: bbrock Jan 17 2018, 10:33 AM

QUOTE(Vacca Rabite @ Jan 17 2018, 08:20 AM)

Posted by: marksteinhilber Jan 17 2018, 02:32 PM

QUOTE(jimkelly @ Sep 12 2013, 09:27 AM)

Posted by: Jamie Jan 17 2018, 08:38 PM

QUOTE(ky914 @ Jan 17 2018, 04:58 AM)

Posted by: ky914 Jan 20 2018, 09:22 AM

Day 3 was spent primarily removing the dash and windshield motors as well as starting to pull the wiring harness.

Day 4 was spent primarily removing the Engine.

Day 5 was spent removing the wiring harness and rubber grommets, half axles and brake calipers. We also pulled the shift rod, clutch cable, heater control lines and accelerator cable from the center console.

The complete job was about 40 hours work for 2 people. We had very few problems that caused a significant delay like stuck bolts or missing a necessary tool.

At this point, I have a naked shell that I need to figure out what to do with. The body panels are all excellent. The rear firewall, floorpans, and Longs are shot and the hell hole is awful. But other that that it is really good. Not sure what I am going to do with the shell, but it needs to be cut up and scrapped. Open to advice on this.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 20 2018, 09:37 AM

This


Attached image(s)

Posted by: ky914 Jan 20 2018, 09:41 AM

I like that idea. Wish I had more wall space.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 20 2018, 09:42 AM

"If I start cutting out everything that looks a little like swiss cheese, I will likely be replacing a huge percentage of the metal. I see rust evidence a little at the top of the windshield, in the trays under the headlights, in the fresh air vents behind the doors, etc... etc... etc... There has to be a point where it is ok to grind out the rust with a wire wheel, hit with metal ready or ospho to keep more rust from coming back and move on without cutting out chunks of metal.

I think you only learn where that line is from experience. Seems like the answer I am getting from the experienced people on this forum is you should always cut out the rust and put in new metal. If that is the case, my tub may be too far gone already and I am better off to resume looking for a better candidate."

Did you ever fix the rust issues?

Posted by: ky914 Jan 20 2018, 09:45 AM

By the way, an appliance dolly is the perfect tool to mount your engine and transmission on to move it around.

Been awhile since I tried to post photos. Can you still link to photobucket?

Posted by: ky914 Jan 20 2018, 10:19 AM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Jan 20 2018, 10:42 AM)

Posted by: ky914 Jan 20 2018, 10:44 AM

Here is the engine and trans on a furniture dolly.



The car mostly stripped.



Here is the birthing of the engine from the donor.

Posted by: ky914 Jan 20 2018, 10:54 AM

Some more pictures just for fun.