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Posted by: nein14-6 Dec 13 2004, 06:28 AM

My friend and I starting in on his 914-6 racecar project this weekend. We may be getting in over our heads, we’ll see after it comes back from the sandblaster.


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Posted by: nein14-6 Dec 13 2004, 06:29 AM

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Posted by: groot Dec 13 2004, 07:38 AM

Ouch, that's a lot of rust. Makes me feel like I started with a pretty solid tub....

Should be interesting to see after it gets back from blasting. Keep posting pics...

Posted by: Jeroen Dec 13 2004, 08:31 AM

I just wish this crap didn't look so familiar
Good luck and keep us posted

Posted by: Brett W Dec 13 2004, 09:30 AM

Some of that looks familiar. Mine isn't as bad, but it is similar in some places. Be really careful about checking the longs and other areas. You don't want the cage holding the rust together,

Good luck.

Posted by: Root_Werks Dec 13 2004, 09:37 AM

Save it! Fix it! I just made a deal to get my wife a 914 now. Getting delivered tonight. It also will require a ton of work. But hey, these cars are worth saving.

Posted by: Thorshammer Dec 13 2004, 11:09 AM

I am so glad you are doing an EP car. There is strength in numbers. Use them. Any questions feel free to contact me. Anyone going to VIR march 18-19?


Erik Madsen 914-6 EP SCCA
508-947-1079

Posted by: groot Dec 13 2004, 11:20 AM

It is great there will be several more 914s in EP!!!

I think I'll have to get one of Jake's stickers though: "NOTASIX"

Posted by: Brett W Dec 13 2004, 11:56 AM

The problem with more 914s in EP is that everyone will begin to see how much potential the cars have. Then SCCA will decide to resurrect the old "we hate Porsche" crap. Maybe we need to call them VWs and we'll get better rules advantages. Mazda and Nissan really don't want to see some old German cars whipping the hell out of their new cars.

Posted by: Zeke Dec 13 2004, 12:14 PM

Looks like a lot of surface rust, the kind that appears on cars near the beach or in wet country where there is no salt. Salt rusted cars and battery acid rusted cars can look much better on the surface and be worse to fix.

I hope it's the former. I had one somewhere in the middle of those two examples and it took a long time to strip and repair everthing. About 3 months of afternoons and weekends. I didn't sandblast that car, although maybe I should have.

Anyway, it turned out real clean, just ask MikeZ.

Posted by: nein14-6 Dec 13 2004, 12:15 PM

Well, lets get a couple of them up high in the national rankings before we start talking smack. Steve Limbert finished mid-pack this year at the run-offs so I have good expectations for the 914s in EP

Posted by: groot Dec 13 2004, 12:55 PM

I'm with you Rob. I can't honestly say if the 914 is outclassed or not. We'll have to plug away at it for a few years and see where we are then.

I may be ignorant or just stupid, but I don't think the SCCA hates Porsches, it's just that more attention has been spent on Mazdas recently in EP. Let's face it, rotaries have the best power/$ ratio in production.... not to mention reliability. And there are so many Miata race cars out there, they have to be given a place to be competitive.

Posted by: r_towle Dec 15 2004, 04:24 PM

Could someone please explain the differences between FP and EP to me.

I have a roofless race car, just want to understand what the fine point differences are for me to go to EP.

I would need to replace some sheetmetal per Chris, there where some holes drilled that need to be replaced, but otherwise it would just be a matter of which engine.....

What are the differences? can a 2.0 liter be built and be competetive??

I am concerned with building a motor that will grenade to be able to place well in EP...

Help me out here please, I dont want engine tricks, just want to get a grip on what other people think will work with a four cylinder motor.

Rich

Posted by: nein14-6 Dec 15 2004, 05:17 PM

I can't help you with the HP numbers too much but the many difference is the fact that FP uses a 1.7l engine and heads while EP allows the use of 2.0l 4 cylinder and 2.0l 6 cylinder cars. I know that the 6 cylinders will make an estimated 180hp in race trim and need to weight 1,950lbs with driver. The gentlemen with the 4 cylinders will need to chime in with their numbers as I can’t rightfully speak for them. The 914s in FP are pretty fairly placed as Les Handly has numerous wins every year running nationals in the northeast.

Posted by: ! Dec 15 2004, 05:54 PM

Hmmmm, I hought EP allowed use of up to 1.8....

I've seen hp numbers on the 1.8 in excess of 180....big bucks in the motors. SCCA is not for the little guy with limited budget anymore.

Posted by: Thorshammer Dec 15 2004, 08:31 PM

FP 1.8 2020
EP 2.0 4 cyl 1920?
EP 2.0 6 cyl 1950

As far as HP levels go. Jake will get what you need. and What you need is 185 in FP, 205 in EP (6cyl) and 195 in EP.
Although some of my fellow racers don't believe what the current cars that win nationals have for HP. You can bet on these numbers as being very close. But I will say this, Foley does not have the strongest engine in his car now, and has finished respectably at the runoffs, and at his home track (lime Rock) has run very well. So it is not always the HP but the drive. As for Limbert, he is fairly quick and the car is pretty well sorted, but he can't get the car down to weight. He is a big guy and has a few too many tubes in the car maybe? What we really need is to know exactly how many EP 6 and EP 4 and FP 4 cars are being built. I am not going to say anti Porsche faction does not exist in the SCCA, but it is changing, what is really important is the car count of a particular type of car in a particular class. This is why the Miata and RX7 is so popular. Not only do the rules make them competitive, but Mazda themselves assists racers with contingencies and the like. But I do not doubt for a minute we will be competitive.

Now heres for the real kicker, I have a chance to get my EP 6 on the Ohlins 7 post shaker rig in January. one day 5K, but I am getting a deal somewhere around 3K, So heres the gig, who would be up to contribute some cash for some information. We all share the shock information gained. Now I know some of our cars will be different. My rear geometry is the same as Chris F, but some of you guys are running the pick up points stock, so much of the info will be useful, but as to how useful we will have to see, Any takers?????

I have Ohlins rear shocks bump and reb adj, and will be purchasing the fronts to match prior to going to the shaker. When is the last time someone shook a 914.........never! When all this new shock technology is here, why not use it?

Erik

Posted by: Brett W Dec 15 2004, 08:52 PM

Where is the shop? NC? I am not sure what kinda info can be learned from it. Let me do some research. I would be happy to kick some change in. If I can I would drive up and help you out. let me know

Posted by: Brett W Dec 15 2004, 08:54 PM

The car was run on Lockheeds shaker back in the early 70s, by Richie Ginther or Alan Johnson.

Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 15 2004, 09:30 PM

I'd be willing to put up about 20% of the fee, so you just need 3 more guys to buy in for the data.
My car is a bit heavier, but the data should still be applicable.

This year at the Runoffs Mazda made up about 65% of the EP entry list, spread between 4 chassis': Miata, 1st Gen RX7, 2nd Gen RX7, RX3. Datsun 240Zs were the next biggest group.
In FP Spridgets made up half the field, and 7 Miatas were the next biggest contingent. 914s came in third with 3 cars. The rest were spread among Triumph, Fiat, BMW, MGB and Honda.
Both classes are doing well entry wise, with FP still in a growth spurt I think.
There's certainly room for more 914s in both classes.

Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 15 2004, 09:30 PM

Wasn't that in one of the old UpFixen's?

That's what I remember reading. They identified the node points and frequencies.....

Posted by: Brett W Dec 16 2004, 12:13 AM

Yes it was and would love to get my hands on a copy of that article. I can find the index for the listling but I don't have it.

Posted by: Brett W Dec 16 2004, 12:17 AM

New issue of Circle Track has an article on Shaker testing and the benefits and results. Check your newstands for it.

Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 16 2004, 01:29 AM

I have that upfixin' but not with me. I'll be home for Christmas (hopefully), but am out of town now. I could scan the pages & make a PDF of it if you are interested.

PM me if you are interested.

Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 16 2004, 01:31 AM

As I recall, we used their suggested tie-in points when we added our cage.

Posted by: Jeroen Dec 16 2004, 05:49 AM

John,
If you send it my way, I'll upload it to the site here, so others can download it
(should save you some e-mail trouble)

cheers,

Jeroen
jeroen@berloth.nl

Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 16 2004, 06:12 AM

It is in voume 4. I have it right here. I'll scan and post in a few minutes.

Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 16 2004, 06:32 AM

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Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 16 2004, 06:38 AM

The pics didn't scan too well, but here's the most important one, Fig 4.


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Posted by: Stutgart46 Dec 16 2004, 09:13 AM

Not sure if this helps but this is the interior of the Brumos 4 cyl car.
Good luck with your project. I would really like to build a similar car.


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Posted by: r_towle Dec 16 2004, 10:32 PM

Is there a rule in SCCA that says you cannot tie the cage into the middle of the long? of course both ends, but what about the middle???

Thanx
rich

Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 17 2004, 04:06 AM

Rich,
Keep in mind that article was written in the mid '70s. The pictured cage would never meet current SCCA road racing standards. The attachment point at the center of the long. is of little value with a well built full cage meeting the minimum standards.
What you see might still be very good in an AX car though.