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Posted by: VegasRacer Dec 13 2004, 07:38 PM

It looks like it is time for me to trade in my 1993 Dodge Stealth. I bought the car new from the dealer. It has been a great realaible car. My only expenses in 90K miles had been routine service. In March I made a decission to keep it a few more years and spent $3000 on valves and a bunch of other "while you're in there" stuff. In August it was another $1000 for transmission repair.

The car overheated last week and died in traffic. It let out a BIG clould of smoke when I restarted it. I did a U-turn and drove directly to the dealer. Some of the required repairs are covered under warranty. Another 3 grand worth are not. (Cracked heads, radiator, etc.) I might consider it IF I knew that would be the final fix. I am afraid that there are only going to be more in the comming months. I guess it is time to give up and move on.

I am in the fortunate position that I have 2 other vehicles in the driveway: My 914-6 plus a full size Chevy conversion van (former tow vehicle). Both run great, but neither is a suitable daily driver.

My delima is - what shoud I buy? My #1 requirement is reliability. $20 - $30 K price range. #2 on the list is sporty. 2 door models only. Rear seats not required but preferred. (No tail draggers) I'll be shopping for something new or a year of 2 old. My 1st thought is a 350Z. I'll look at BMW's also. What else should I test drive? What should I avoid? Any feedback would be appreciated.


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Posted by: synthesisdv Dec 13 2004, 07:53 PM

986S

Its already a buyers market and when the new model comes out in a few weeks, you will really be able to get a nice one for a great price.

I got a certifed 986S. Its a 2001 but wasn't titled till march of '02. So I have the extent of the factory warranty till march of '06 and then 2 more years of the limited "porsche certified" warranty. So I don't have to spend any money on the car until 2008. Except for cool stuff like wheels, exhaust, ....

Gotta spend the extra $$$ on the 914.

Posted by: 914helo Dec 13 2004, 07:55 PM

While I'm not a big Pontiac fan, my wife and I drove a very nice Grand Prix that had no extra maintainance (besides one AC visit) until we sold it with 120K on it. Still pretty sporty and very powerful. Converted me, to that model at least.

Posted by: Stutgart46 Dec 13 2004, 07:58 PM

I think the Boxster S is a great deal as well. These cars have great performance and all the creature comforts such as; a power top that doesn't leak, cold a/c, and a very comfortable cockpit. Also, 993's are getting in that range. And they probably won't depreciate too fast.

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 13 2004, 08:01 PM

new GTO?

kevin

Posted by: jkeyzer Dec 13 2004, 08:28 PM

I know these are 4 door but...

Subaru WRX (new $23-25k)

Subaru WRX Sti ($30k for one with a few miles on it)

Posted by: jd74914 Dec 13 2004, 08:51 PM

I don't know if you're into new VW's, but the R-32 seems like a great car.

Posted by: VegasRacer Dec 13 2004, 08:58 PM

The GTO and WRX are both nice cars, but probably not the right ones for me. I will consider the Boxster S model. Maybe a S2000 or a used Lexus or Infinity?

Posted by: boxstr Dec 13 2004, 09:42 PM

This is my idea of a daily driver, in nice weather. Actually my wifes idea.
CCLINNADA


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Posted by: Matt Romanowski Dec 13 2004, 09:51 PM

I just got a Mini Cooper S and can't say a bad word about it. It is really fun.

Matt

Posted by: McMark Dec 13 2004, 09:52 PM

MINI COOPER S, Fun fun fun.

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Dec 13 2004, 09:53 PM

Keep it in the family...ensure it comes from the Black Forest John...

Posted by: morphenspectra Dec 13 2004, 09:56 PM

ive been a big chrysler fan for years.they have improved alot since that stealth was built.if you dont have kids,test drive a chrysler crossfire.fun cars.when i kicked my 97 intrepid to the curb after a wonderful 179 thou miles.i was buying my dakota i was looking at them(crossfires)i had to get out of one to go pick out a truck i needed.
james

Posted by: Mike D. Dec 13 2004, 10:03 PM

If you want to stay in the P-car range you should seriously consider the 968. 3.0 4 cylinder. gobbs of power, comfort, easy driving and way fun in the twisties.

Other than that, the I wife and just went back and forth on lux sedans. Here in So. Cal. we have plethora of certified used, BMW, M-B, etc. We finally decided on, get this, a Volvo S80 t6 Executive. It cam down to this car and a 5 series BMW. I ended up with everything the BMW offered except rear wheel drive, for about 10K less. This car is a twin turbo 2.9 5 cylinder, and puts out 262HP. Leather, sunroof, weather package, 4 speed "tiptronic", STC, 17" alloys 235 yokos, all kinds of goodies. 100K MILE WARRENTY.
The car is not boxy either... $24k, and only had 21k on the oddometer.

have fun looking...

Posted by: pete-stevers Dec 13 2004, 10:44 PM

How bout an Acura?? Great engineering, fairly quick, honda/ Acura drivetrain/ look great, not quite the norm but you drive a 14 so why not!
not sure of availibility in your area Hate to say it but rice is nice

Posted by: Series9 Dec 13 2004, 10:51 PM

1.8T GTI.

Posted by: Scott Carlberg Dec 13 2004, 11:12 PM

buddy of mine just bought a brand new 2004 VW 24V VR6 GTI a week ago sunday.

$18,900 + the financing.


See if your VW dealership has any 2004's left, see if they'll make you a deal!

Posted by: Hi_Fi_Guy Dec 13 2004, 11:13 PM

Porsche Boxster
Mazda Rx-8
Mini Cooper S (or Cooper S Works)
Audi TT
BMW 3 Series coupe
MB C series coupe
New Ford Mustang GT

Posted by: tesserra Dec 13 2004, 11:21 PM

The Infinity coupe, I think it is the I-30.
Its a grown-ups 350Z with a back seat.

Posted by: Qarl Dec 13 2004, 11:51 PM

Fort Pinto
Chevy Vega
AMC Gremlin
Ranchero
Fort Festiva
Renault Le Car
Renault Fuego

Posted by: mattillac Dec 14 2004, 01:35 AM

Posted by: Kevin@ojai.net Dec 14 2004, 05:01 AM

Posted by: watsonrx13 Dec 14 2004, 05:46 AM

I had the same situation a couple of months ago. I had a '95 Miata with 215,000+ miles, that I bought new. I spent some money on it earlier in the year, belts, 30,000 mile tune up, regular maintenance. Anyway, 2 months ago, the clutch started making 'strange and expensive' noises. I parked it and went to the dealer. Bought a new '04 Miata, Special Edition. I put nothing down (rebate of $1500 applied) and because of my credit rating, 0 % financing for 5 years. The '95 Miata NEVER let me down. I took it to the dealer to have the oil change and all maintenance. Yes, I know I could have saved money, but they checked everything and were able to find leaks and fix things before they broke. The Miata has been a great daily driver, I drive 85 mi round trip a day. The newer car is about $3000 more than the '95, but it has more engine power, power windows, power door locks, power mirrors, leather interior, power steering. I expect this car to go 9+ yrs and 200,000+ miles before I sell it. BTW, I sold the '95 for $2600 and paid $23,000 for the '04.

My wife has leased a '93, '97 and '98 3000 GT/SL. We bought the '98 when the lease was up. That car is our weekend sports car, her daily driver is a '02 PT Cruiser.

Good luck with the search and let us know what you finally decide....

Posted by: dflesburg Dec 14 2004, 07:03 AM

If you think you can handle 439rwhp and a sunburn on your bald spot....

Drive what I drive. (dyno taken before chip tune - now should be about 450bhp at the wheels at 14lbs boost)

Posted by: rick 918-S Dec 14 2004, 08:08 AM

These are cool. German Chassis, retro styling, now availible in a drop top.


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Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 14 2004, 09:47 AM

the crossfire . my wife saw one (vert) and told me she saw "a really nice looking car". i told her they start at 45 large plus 8.6% sales tax, "would you like to get one or pay off the mortage?".

kevin

Posted by: VegasRacer Dec 14 2004, 09:48 AM

Thanks for all the ideas. You all sure are good at spending other peoples money. My list of options keeps getting longer. Thursday will be my first chance to go out and start looking. After only a few hours of Internet research the Infinity G35 seems to have climbed to the top of the list.

Thanks for your input Qarl. I'm sure any of those would be better than a Lotus Elise.

Posted by: boxstr Dec 14 2004, 10:39 AM

John I think there is a better idea. Someone in the club contacts Overhaulin, they do the whole setup and steal your car and let the A team loose. I can just see Chip Foose trying to figure out what to do to the Dodge Stealth.
Or you could go on MTV and have them "PIMP YOUR RIDE". XBOX and DVD screens all over the car. If you don't like that idea, maybe someone can get in touch with Bluebear, and you could let him loose on the Stealth.
Just a thought.
CCLINRIDES

Posted by: Ferg Dec 14 2004, 10:55 AM

New Mustang GT
Rx8
968 coupe, with $ to spare and spend on the 914-6

or Ditch the van as tow car and get a magnum hemi wagon with dubs, you are in vegas after all...

Ferg.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Dec 14 2004, 10:56 AM

Here's what I drive when I am not in a 914.....

95 BMW 540I. 4.0L V8, 5 speed auto, full leather interior, all the bells and whistles you could want...

Paid far less than bluebook for it with under 100K on the clock. Seems there was an engine recall on these, and they don't sell too well. But if you find one that had it done by the dealer already (Warranty to 100K miles), you get an Excellent car cheap. This thing will flatten your eyeballs on accelleration, and it has the sport suspension setup.


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Posted by: aveale Dec 14 2004, 03:04 PM

No brainer for me.

Infiniti G35 coupe.

Wins all the awards.

T

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Dec 14 2004, 03:29 PM

Two doors, sporty, fun, and $20-30K? I'd go with:

NEW: Infiniti G35 coupe. Dynamically excellent (better than most German stuff save the 3 Series), far better steering and handling than any current Audi/VW offering, should be VERY reliable, and VERY popular around the Ross Peridocials offices, and we drive just about everything but tow vehicles and minivans.

USED: Plain used Boxster 1999-2001 for $15-25K. Skip the S and save the money. Who can't use an extra $10,000? The S is better, but not $7,000-10,000 better. The base 986 is every bit as sweet as the S to drive in terms of handling, noises, etc. and gives you all the squirt you need (so long as you know how to drive it -- and you're a914 gy, so I know you do ). It's also the best damn used sports car value on the planet.

pete

Posted by: AlexO Dec 14 2004, 11:06 PM

I have to trow my plug in for the MazdaSpeed Miata. My '97 is nice, but the new turbos have everything mine needs. Full suspension, body, interior, and engine mods. Great little car. Just a little short on trunk space.
--Alex

Posted by: Aaron Cox Dec 14 2004, 11:09 PM

Posted by: Qarl Dec 15 2004, 12:23 AM

Seriously...

The New Pontiac GTO seems kinda cool

Turbo Miata

New Mustang GT

Infinity G35

Any of the six cylinder 3-series BMWs

VW Passat VR6

And finally...

the Audi A4... I think there will be a 2.0 Turbo to replace the 1.8T. I really like the Audi A4s

Posted by: carreraguy Dec 15 2004, 01:57 PM

The G35 is a great car but isn't it over $30K?

Before you pick up the G35 I recommend you test drive a VW R32 (if you can find one). It's a blast to drive! I just bought one to replace my M3 daily driver and posted about it below:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=21804&hl=r32

Posted by: itsa914 Dec 15 2004, 02:08 PM

I vote for one of these Fun car, price range $19K - $21K.


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Posted by: Pnambic Dec 15 2004, 02:27 PM

I read a few days ago that the Dodge Neon has the worst projected value retention of any car in America. Not saying the SRT isn't a blast to drive, but the resale value is expected to plummet.

...of course, you buy the car to drive it, not sell it.

Posted by: J P Stein Dec 15 2004, 02:38 PM

Mr.2 is getting long in the tooth (121K miles). I'm a 2 seater kinda guy, so the Honda S2000 is a slam dunk when the time comes.

Posted by: itsa914 Dec 15 2004, 02:49 PM

Posted by: 7391420 Dec 15 2004, 03:36 PM

If you need something with 4 doors but want some fun, and space in the back,


-go to a saab dealer, find the nice'st 02 93 they have and walk away with a fully warrantied near luxury hatch for 14-18k

-Full leather

-On-star

-trip computer, heated seats, s-roof, 205 hp, etc....

-near 30mpg

-and its a hatch with tons of room with the seats down...

-great value, and they are practically giving them away...and with interest rates so low, you can get a used car loan in the 4% range if your credit is decent...

Posted by: mack914 Dec 15 2004, 07:30 PM

I have a 1988 BMW M5, a classic and it flies. It's for sale.

Posted by: VegasRacer Dec 17 2004, 05:06 AM

I headed out today with an open mind and a list of over 20 models I wanted to check out. I returned home with a much more manigable list of top contenders. I learned I am truely a sports car kind of guy. I now know without a doubt that I don't like 4 door cars.

I thought the Infinity G35 was going to be among my top choices. I quickly knew it was not the one for me.

Some of the other rejects are:
VW - GTI & R32 - The R32 is a very nice car. Both seem like to much sauerkraut (German Rice) for my taste.
Suburu WRX - another great car (if that's what you want). One of my friends who is an excellent auto-crosser traded in his BMW M3 last year for a WRX and loves it.
Mini Cooper and some of the other high revving 4 cylinders are fun cars but not what I am looking for in a daily driver.
Pontiac GTO was nothing special. Just a big motor. I would much rather have an Impala SS.
Chrysler Crossfire - I was impressed a few months ago when I saw one do very well at an auto-cross. As a potential buyer - no thanks. It also had a $2K 'market value' add above MSRP.
BMW - The M3 is to expensive. The other 3 series cars are 4 door. The Z4 is not all that. I have some seat time as a drivers ed instructor in a Z3 and was disappointed.
Mercedes C class - not enough of a good thing.
Boxster - maybe if I didn't already have a nice 914-6.
Acura was not on my original list. They don't have any models that fit my guidelines, but I was very impressed by the quality.
Audi TT & A4 - see above comments. 4 cyl / 4 door. Nice cars.


The three I am now considering:
Honda S2000 - another car I have piloted at a Track Quest DE event. On a road course it was surprisingly similar to my 914 race car. Yes I know it is a 4 cyl. V-tech but it is a very pleasing car to drive.
Mazda RX8 - when they came out I did not like the looks. Maybe I am prejudice since my 1st race car was a RX7. I do like that it has some sort of a back seat.
Nissan 350Z - lots of HP and torque. It does feel a bit heavy compared to the other two.

I did stumble on one other option. It is a little beyond my planned budget, but way more car than I thought I could get. Why is the current price of a low mileage 2001 Mercedes SL500 less than half of what it sold for new? It is a beautiful machine. Are they unreliable? Would it make a good daily driver counterpart to my /6? The other 3 choices are the best options out there. Any of them would be good choice. The SL500 was the only one that made my heart flutter. Somebody talk me out of it. Please.

Posted by: SpecialK Dec 17 2004, 05:21 AM

Then I say go with the with the SL500 (wood-invoker)!

Plus you won't have that language barrier in the garage between the cars!

Posted by: GWN7 Dec 17 2004, 05:24 AM

There only payments.....if it fits the budget. go for it.

Wholesale: $34,753
Retail: $46,856



The Mercedes-Benz SL-Class Roadster arrives this new model year with detail refinements and an upgraded exterior appearance. Formerly part of an option package, the AMG-designed sculpted lower bodywork and 18-inch alloy wheels are now standard. Standard features include a Bose Acoustimass stereo system, the Brake Assist system, and both hard and soft tops. A Panorama Roof is optional that consists of a hard top with a complete glass panel top. Two designo editions are available, the Slate Blue Edition and the Black Diamond Edition. Both include unique two-tone Nappa leather seating and either carbon-fiber or maple wood trim. The SL 600 continues with its signature V12 engine, which produces 389-hp and 420 lb-ft of torque.


All I could find worthwhile to read about it...

Posted by: SpecialK Dec 17 2004, 05:29 AM

Posted by: VegasRacer Dec 17 2004, 05:55 AM

Posted by: VegasRacer Dec 17 2004, 05:57 AM

This blue car pulled up when I was at one of the dealers.
I wonder if he is trading it in?


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Posted by: SpecialK Dec 17 2004, 06:05 AM

I'd still get the Merc........ an a bottle of sunsceen!

I'm no "mustang" expert, but there's something about the front of that car that doesn't look quite kosher

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Dec 17 2004, 06:19 AM

Posted by: synthesisdv Dec 17 2004, 06:44 AM

Hey John,

Clean your lens, looks like vaseline on the glass.

Posted by: Qarl Dec 17 2004, 07:55 AM

He's got a big fingerprint on his camera lens. I saw it personally.

John, clean the greasy finger print from your lens.

Qar;

Posted by: VegasRacer Jan 3 2005, 02:30 PM

QUOTE (watsonrx13 @ Dec 14 2004, 03:46 AM)

Good luck with the search and let us know what you finally decide....

The search is over. It took me another week or so to eventually decide on a 350Z. I revisited all 4 Nissan dealers in Vegas to check their stock and weigh my choices. I made a list of the options I wanted, those I didn't and what was negotiable. I couldn't find the right car in an acceptable color. I even had my friend at the VW / Audi dealership tell his buyer to check all the auctions for me. No luck.

I finally said "Let's do it"! I asked my sales manager friend to hook me up with his counterpart at their Nissan store. I walked in with my list and said "This is what I want. Order me a car!" Nissan was having a year end sale with 2% financing on 2004 models. They found me the exact car I wanted in Wyoming and sold it to me for $500 over invoice plus $425 for shipping. It will be here on Friday. Color is LeMans Sunset. 287 HP. 274 lb/ft torque. 235/50/17's on 8 inch wheels. 0 - 60 in 5.5 seconds.

Some people might say that having 2 two seat roadsters is not practical. If you consider how long it has been since I have had a date, I think I have one to many seats in each car.

I can't wait to get the car on the track to see what it can do. It is going to have to wait its turn. Elvira has not yet had the chance to go out and play. Life is good.


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Posted by: 7391420 Jan 3 2005, 02:40 PM

Great choice,

I had a 90 300z TT which was sweet. What options did you get? track/touring model? 6 speed I assume?

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 3 2005, 02:45 PM

when nissan first rolled these out there was one on display at a local mall. touring/sport edition. it had a navigation system that was about $3k for that item alone and you could not buy that specific version without one. plus a $6000 amv(adjusted market value, because of the high market demand ). out the door it was over $38k plus 8.86% sales tax. hard to believe they sold ANY in washington with those terms. that is a great color on the new 350z.

kevin

Posted by: Ferg Jan 3 2005, 03:14 PM

It was in Wyoming? Heck I would drove it to you for a return plane ticket
plus it would have arrived properly broken in
Ferg

Posted by: VegasRacer Jan 3 2005, 03:29 PM

The 6 speed was a must. The Triptonic seemed to work well, but it is just wrong in a sports car. No Navigation $ystem. The entire line has the same 3.5 liter engine and multi-link suspension. I went with the Enthusiast model. That means I get a limited slip, traction control, xenon headlights and a 160 watt stereo with 6 speakers. The only way to get leather seats was in the Touring model. It also means you pay for the VDC (Vehicle Dynamic Control) system which I did not want. I don't want some computer reducing power to one wheel to bring it back in line when I am trying to hang out the rear end going around a corner. I also did not want to pay for the power heated seats in the touring package.

The only difference between mine and the full Track model is that I don't have 18" wheels, Brembo brakes or a tiny spoiler - for 5 grand less.

Posted by: cha914 Jan 5 2005, 04:39 PM

Vegas,

Congrats on the car, just one quick question...you said you drove the Infinity G35 and quickly knew it wasn't the car for you...arn't the 350z and the G35 the same car with just some cosmetic differences?

Personally I like the looks of the G35 better, the 350z is nice, but there are some minor details I don't like...anyway, just curious more than anything...I am sure you will have alot of fun with that car...

I did go on tour in the 914 where I was trying to keep up with a supercharged G35...man that thing was scary fast...

Yours,

Tony

Posted by: VegasRacer Jan 6 2005, 01:17 AM

QUOTE (cha914 @ Jan 5 2005, 02:39 PM)

Congrats on the car, just one quick question...you said you drove the Infinity G35 and quickly knew it wasn't the car for you...arn't the 350z and the G35 the same car with just some cosmetic differences?

Don't get me wrong, the G35 is a very nice car. It has won a lot of awards for good reason. It is just not what I was looking for.

#1 - I hate 4 door cars. The only way you would see me driving one is if I won a mega lottery jackpot and then it would be some ultra luxury exotic (after I bought my 3rd house). Yes, the G35 is available as a coupe, but it still felt like a sedan to me. As far as I'm concerned, a back seat is a total waste of space. I would only use it as a place to throw empty beer cars my jacket or a bag of groceries. I already have a nice full size conversion van with big comfy captains chairs if I need to haul more than 2 people.

The G35 and 350Z are built on the same platform and use the same motor. The Infinity has a much softer suspension. As it is, the 350Z is a heavy car, expecially when you compare it to the light and nimble Mazda RX8. The G35 is a lot more of a luxury car than the 350Z. The Nissan is rather raw in comparison. The G35 hit me as more of a sporty coupe/sedan. The 350Z seemed like a real sports car.

I agree that some of the cosmetic details should have received better treatment in the 350Z. I wish they would have spent another $1000 on interior materials.

Update on my LeMans Sunset 350Z - I got a good news / bad news phone call today. The car was due to arrive on Friday. The dealer called to say it came in today. They said to give them a few hours to detail it. An hour later they called back. The car that came in is the wrong one. The one they got is an automatic. I'll be down there bright and early tomorrow morning to figure out what we are going to do.

Posted by: DuckRyder Jan 6 2005, 10:46 PM

QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Dec 17 2004, 07:57 AM)

This blue car pulled up when I was at one of the dealers. I wonder if he is trading it in?

That would be out of your price range by a rather significant margin.

Posted by: VegasRacer Jan 14 2005, 04:23 PM

Well I finally got my new Z. This one even has more than I bargained for. There are some trivial options like a cargo net, aluminum kick plates and aero-package they threw in. They would not give me the $1300 chrome wheels that were on the car so I had them swap them out. This one also has a stainless steel Nismo exhaust. After enough they agreed to let me have it all for the same price.


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Posted by: VegasRacer Jan 14 2005, 04:24 PM

Artsy shot.


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Posted by: Aaron Cox Jan 14 2005, 04:24 PM

NICE!