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Posted by: jimkelly Sep 27 2013, 10:50 AM

I am trying to bleed my bone dry brake system with a MOTIVE pressure system and a mix of long tube, but since they say you can't use SPEED BLEEDERS with MOTIVE, I want to make sure I am not chasing my tail.

I did bleed each corners twice so far and have some small amount of peddle, maybe 25% or so of normal.

the picture below is a new bleeder and one I pulled out of my jack standed car.


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Posted by: Black22 Sep 27 2013, 11:00 AM

I'm no expert, but those don't look like Speed Bleeders to me.

Posted by: stugray Sep 27 2013, 11:07 AM

You should be able to blow both ways through a normal bleeder, but only OUT on a speed bleeder.
They have little ball valves in them.

Posted by: URY914 Sep 27 2013, 11:26 AM

Did you google speedbleeders for a picture?

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 27 2013, 11:35 AM

I tried youtube.

found this in google images

but the bliow method sounds ok for CLEAN ones

looks like speed bleeders have a two angle head


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Posted by: wndsnd Sep 27 2013, 11:35 AM

These are speed bleeders Jim,

I took them out cause I couldn't get them to work.

John






Can't get the blur out but you can see the end fitting.

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 27 2013, 11:49 AM

thanks for the pic : )

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 27 2013, 11:55 AM

think I will try the two person - old school style - next.

at least I have some fluid in the system and it is not leaking at every joint

this was my first concern.

getting the air out, my next concern.




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Posted by: shuie Sep 27 2013, 12:35 PM

I've been fighting with the same issue for the last 3 days. I had no idea you couldn't use the speedbleeders with the Motive. That's how I used to bleed the brakes on my 911. I thought it was about the only way to do it without an extra person. I guess Im going back to the standard bleeders screws.

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Sep 27 2013, 12:42 PM

I've used speed bleeders all the time. Mostly because I can't get anyone to sit in the car and "pump the peddle". Whenever it's time to bleed my brakes, my Wife somehow finds out about it and disappears for awhile. I just used them recently after my 5 lug conversion and installation of new brakes.

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 27 2013, 12:49 PM

I do not see why they can't be used together, unless, the speed bleeders, need more than the motive's 15-20 psi produces, to open??

the problem I am having now, is that I have some peddle resistance, not much, but using the motive, tons of fluid comes out but very little bubbles.

thus I will try the 2 person technique next.

jim

QUOTE(shuie @ Sep 27 2013, 11:35 AM)

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 27 2013, 12:51 PM

oh, and, it seems all the bleeders I have, long and short, are standard - as I can blow thru them both ways - not so tasty.

if I had a set of speed bleeders, I would give them a try for sure.

I did replace the hodge podge of bleeders on my car with all short ones.

Posted by: URY914 Sep 27 2013, 12:53 PM

I bleed the rears by myself. Use a long stick and push the pedal.

Posted by: andys Sep 27 2013, 01:31 PM

For a one-man operation, pressure bleeding or reverse bleeding works best. When you're done, come back the next day and do it again; amazing how much incidental air remains trapped.

Andys

Posted by: SLITS Sep 27 2013, 01:54 PM

I use a Hospital Aspirator (vacuum pump).

One thing is to bleed the MC. I crack the fittings and let them drip for a while. You can also bench bleed the MC.

The prop valve (when I had one) I would essentially do the same as the MC with the ass end of the car high in the air.

It's hard to get the air out of the system.

Posted by: r_towle Sep 27 2013, 02:03 PM

bone dry system wont bleed unless you bench bleed the master...or do it like SLITS said...

The master has no fluid to pressurize yet.

rich

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 27 2013, 02:21 PM

I did crack the hard lines to the MC, but only for a minute or two.

I will do the slits trick, longer, to my master asap.

thanks
jim

Posted by: r_towle Sep 27 2013, 02:24 PM

QUOTE(jimkelly @ Sep 27 2013, 04:21 PM)

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 27 2013, 02:31 PM

to be certain - we are talking about cracking these two fittings and letting the drip for an hour or so?

thanks


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Posted by: shuie Sep 27 2013, 02:45 PM

yep, I've got the same issue. Lots of fluid and really no bubbles. I've tried gravity bleeding with one end of the car in the air. Tried the Archimedes' Principle trick with lines strung up in the air above the reservoir and bleeders open. Tried the plumbers putty trick around the bleeders to make sure they are not sucking air into the brake circuit when open. I get a decent pedal if I pump the brakes lightly after the circuit pressurized by the Motive. It's almost like air in the MC gets pushed out, but as soon as I depressurize the Motive I have no pedal again. I'll try the MC fitting drip trick next.

I've never been able to bench bleed a MC without spilling all of the brake fluid out of it on the install before getting the feed lines snapped in place. I have no idea how people are able to do that while crawling under the car. I've never had any issues bleeding brakes with the Motive & speedbleeders before.

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 27 2013, 02:51 PM

this is where I saw it mentioned - the warning.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=93792&hl=bleeding+brakes

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 28 2013, 08:53 AM

well, looks like it is time to tackle vent clearance.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=82214&hl=adjust+brake

just found this

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=96025&hl=BRAKE+VENTING

and this

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=90625


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Posted by: jimkelly Sep 28 2013, 09:10 AM

so when adjusting the inner on a car, this is the thing that needs to be turned to adjust inner clearance?

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 28 2013, 01:58 PM

well, i can get some peddle, but some times peddle still goes to floor.

from top down, my peddle has about 2" of dead movement, then resistance from the MC/etc the rest of the way when it stops from pressure just before hitting the metal, but sometimes peddle still bottoms out. more bleeding needed.

also my rear rotors rubbed on my pads, so I started with outer vent adjustment and found a slight adjustment clockwise on L&R outer screws alleviated rubbing/noise.

I made this tool from 17mm wrench and 13mm socket.

oh, and when I turn the rotors by hand and have my wife step on brake peddle, I get strong stop on all 4.


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