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Posted by: Russian019 Dec 16 2004, 02:42 PM

After all these years of storing this thing, I finally have the time to start working on it. I started with the pass side rear fender area. I need some suggestions. This being an LE, should I replace the whole fender or just patch in new sail panels? The door jams need to be replaced also, so it would be nice to weld back in a complete fender. What do whole fenders go for? I'm pretty sure I'll need the driverside because it looks like someone took a hammer to it right behind the door. I'll post pictures of that soon. The support piece behind the sail panel needs (both sides I think) to be replaced also. Am I going to have to get that from a doner car? Mittelmotor has only the left side.


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Posted by: Russian019 Dec 16 2004, 02:43 PM

Inner


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Posted by: Russian019 Dec 16 2004, 02:43 PM

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Posted by: Russian019 Dec 16 2004, 02:44 PM

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Posted by: Russian019 Dec 16 2004, 02:50 PM

This is interesting. I bought the car painted black. The color code is L80E. The spare rim and repro front spoiler are yellow. Flaking paint in the front trunk and under the car reveal the original white ivory paint. You can see small sratches on the rear fender that came on the car, which is black, small areas of yellow paint. The extra bumper I got with the car is red and the wheels had been polished silver. What's interesting is you can see on the silver wheels both yellow and red paint. Why would somebody buy a white and red LE, paint it black and yellow, and then all black?


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Posted by: Joe Ricard Dec 16 2004, 02:50 PM

You need to talk to Rob Watson. I think he has some recent experience with this operation. Maybe he can give you some insight.

Mine view is DAMN thats rusty!

Posted by: Russian019 Dec 16 2004, 02:50 PM

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Posted by: Russian019 Dec 16 2004, 02:50 PM

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Posted by: Bleyseng Dec 16 2004, 02:51 PM

Man, thats some rust. Why don't you strip the car and then dip the body so you can see and the rust. You should be able to get most of the panels off of chopped up cars. Finding all new is going to be tough and expensive.
Geoff

Posted by: davep Dec 16 2004, 02:55 PM

Rusty (Lawrence Bonkowski) will be proud of you. Please email me with details such as the chassis number off of the Karmann paint code plate.

Dave

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 16 2004, 02:56 PM

you should strip it and acid-dip it. that's the only way to go for a chassis that bad.

if it doesn't fold in half when they take it out of the bath, it's a keeper!
Andy

Posted by: Russian019 Dec 16 2004, 03:17 PM

I've thought about having it dipped. I live in a pretty humid area though. What has been recently sanded is already accumulating surface rust.... how and with what do you seal the metal after you get it back completely bare?

Posted by: URY914 Dec 16 2004, 03:26 PM

You have a VERY long road in front of you. You may think about plan B with that car.
Is it worth the effort to save?

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 16 2004, 03:30 PM

they will rinse it, neutralize the acid and then put it in protective primer right away ...

before:


stripped:


after:



read this thread on how to prep the car for dipping:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=3676&st=0

read this thread for info on what to do after the dipping:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=4369&st=0


hope this helps a bit,
Andy

Posted by: Root_Werks Dec 16 2004, 04:13 PM

From the VIN standpiont, I would try to save it if possible.

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Dec 16 2004, 05:11 PM

Oh Hi Zach...So this is your car!

I hope you will post lots of photos of your progress on the restoration...

You gonna take it back to a Creamsicle again?

Another LE saved...

Posted by: Russian019 Dec 16 2004, 10:30 PM

Yeah Jeff, I'm gonig to do my best to take the car back to as close as original as I can. I'll post pics as I go along, though for me, progress is very slow. You think those fenders should be replaced as a whole?

Posted by: Russian019 Dec 16 2004, 10:40 PM

I'm going to look into getting the car dipped next week. I think it's a good idea too.

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Dec 17 2004, 08:36 AM

I am not really the one to ask...but it looks like the sail panels are the real victims from the photos. Those are obviously gone, but you have removed the whole quarter panel too? So do the repair correctly and call it good.

Posted by: davep Dec 17 2004, 11:46 AM

I'm not really a fan of acid dipping. Once you see all the crevices that the acid can get into, you might have second thoughts. Here is a previous thread on media blasting. This is something I would be more comfortable with.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=20084

Posted by: Russian019 Dec 17 2004, 12:11 PM

I had a car media blasted a couple of years ago for about $600 or $700 and wasn't too impressed, although, now that I think about it, I think it was sand blasted. The car was pretty gritty when I got it back. Would something as soft as baking soda take off seam sealer?

Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 18 2004, 04:49 PM

I'm with DaveP.

The thread he has linked has some really interesting facts about acid dipping. Check page 3.

I just visited a tub yesterday that was acid dipped and primed well (by Brad's source). They have spent "days" cleaning up the weeping acid and it's still not done.

Please read that link before you make a final decision on acid dipping. Here's the link again and I'll post some pictures of what is currently happening to this chassis:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=20084&st=40

6 months later acid is still weeping from this tub.
You need to pull your heater tubes if you acid dip. The only way to do that is to slice the longitudinals (better referred to as the "backbone" of your car)
You'll then need to replace the longitudinals which will require major metal work.

Again... read that post and see how well William's car turned out.

Now for the pictures...


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Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 18 2004, 04:50 PM

nudder


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Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 18 2004, 04:51 PM

more...


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Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 18 2004, 04:52 PM

more...


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Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 18 2004, 04:52 PM

Last one...


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Posted by: davep Dec 18 2004, 09:05 PM

Eric, those pictures are scary. I'd be having nightmares. Zach, the sandblasting is very hard on the sheet metal, and can cause large flat panels to warp. I'd avoid it also. The speed at which the soda is shot should take off almost anything. However, the more crap that can be removed by hand the better. Tar coating is one of those things. However, it means that a less than perfect job has to be done with the tar removal.

Posted by: JOHNMAN Dec 18 2004, 09:38 PM

What is this "acid" dipping? Is that something in California?

When I have had tubs dipped, it is actually a very strong BASE, not acid. We used a company called Redi-Strip.

During the process, the car is cleaned, the paint is stripped, the car is rinsed, the car is dipped in the Alkaline (BASE) rust removal tank, the car is then rinsed and dipped into the phosphate tank and then is drained.

The dipping place that we used did not put any protective coating on the car other than the phosphate coating.

While it is true that there will be remains of the phosphate weeping for a few months, it does dry. If the car is mounted on a roticorie, the draining process is dramatically shortened.

It looks like the final phosphate coating was not done on the car in the pictures. Our track car was dipped with this same process almost 20 years ago in Cincinnati, OH. The last car we had dipped was about 3 years ago.

At least on our track car (dipped 20 years ago) there is virtually no rust even on panels that were not accessable to paint (when I recently opened the longs to take a peek, they were as clean as they were just after dipping).

I strongly believe that the phosphate coating is a critical last step in the dipping process.

just my $0.02