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Posted by: shuie Oct 7 2013, 07:32 AM

I've pulled my spark plugs and am trying to use the starter to build oil pressure before firing my engine.

Car has been built from the ground up. Pretty much everything is new. New engine, new flywheel, new/reman Bosch starter & solenoid, new battery cable, new ground cables, new engine wiring harness, etc.. Battery is an Optima that is not new, but is fully charged.

I turn the key and I can hear the starter pinion grinding on the flywheel ring gear. It sounds like a hammerdrill. I shorted the 12V to the switched 12V terminals on the starter with a screwdriver and I get the same grrrrr sound. I've shorted the 12V terminal on the starter to ground and verified that the starter spins freely without the grrrr. So, I think this means that the ignition switch, starter motor, and solenoid all check out.

I pulled the starter and can see the grinding on the flywheel ring gear from where pinion is trying to engage the flywheel. I have nothing else to do today, so Im going to bench test the starter and check the voltage drop across the battery.

I double checked the engine/trans mating surface and everything is flush and tight. I do have the brass bushing on the end of the starter pinion. Everything seems to be bolted up fine.

My battery cable is a 60" piece of #2 stranded welding cable. Battery and trans grounds are also #2 (FLAPS cables). Ground surfaces are clean and tight.

Does this sound like a wiring issue (cables too small) or some kind of alignment issue with the starter and flywheel? Am I not getting enough juice to fully extend the pinion, or is something misaligned?

TIA

Posted by: r_towle Oct 7 2013, 07:42 AM

this could be your issue.
I have had bad luck with the rebuilt starters and alternators over the years and now I bring them to a local rebuilder and pay a bit more to have them rebuild them at their shop, not sent to a place unknown, and built by hand , then tested.


Pull the starter out and see of the gear comes all the way out when you try to start it.
Possibly add some lube to the shaft, and take a look at the "rebuilt" solenoid on the starter...just pull the cover off.

If its corroded, it wont throw all the way.
If the end bushing is binding up, it wont throw all the way.

In a scenario that you have low voltage, the starter solenoid typically will throw the gear and engage the flywheel, but the starter wont be able to turn the motor due to lack of power.
With low voltage, typically you CAN get the gear to engage...

rich

Rich

Posted by: shuie Oct 7 2013, 10:00 AM

thanks. I just bench tested it with jumper cables. The voltage drop across the battery was from ~12V down to ~9.5V, which seems normal. The pinion did extend all the way but did NOT turn at all. I know it's spinning when mounted in the car because it is grinding my flywheel ring gear.

Posted by: The Cabinetmaker Oct 7 2013, 04:17 PM

Where are you hooking the cables?

Posted by: r_towle Oct 7 2013, 07:51 PM

Ok, then the starter solenoid is throwing the gear.
It may be possible that the windings on the rebuilt (overseas) starter is broken.

Get a new one.
They are a gamble, both starters and alternators.

Rich

Posted by: shuie Oct 7 2013, 07:56 PM

Yep. Bought another one from the FLAPS today. $40. I'll try it tomorrow. Thanks again for the help, everyone.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Oct 7 2013, 10:40 PM

"$40"? There's your problem. The parts necessary for a properly remanufactured starter are probably more than that, wholesale. Garbage in, garbage out ................

The Cap'n

Posted by: shuie Oct 8 2013, 06:24 AM

I hear that, but what other option do I have? There is no local shop here that will rebuild these. All other things being equal I would rather have shaved some more weight with a smaller high torque unit. I figured that a rebuilt Bosch would still be the best longest lasting option for the car. I'll pick the $40 unit up this morning. Should I buy two of them and send one to someone for a proper rebuild to keep on the shelf for when the other new one fails?

Posted by: Nine_14 Oct 8 2013, 10:28 AM

Same as this China spare scrab.


Last time i did an Xenon Update on an AMG C-class V8

it works 2 hours....... got a new one by waranty, works a week.

The owner goes with ordinary light now.

Posted by: bandjoey Oct 8 2013, 12:04 PM

Several in the phone book. Don't know anything about them.
Here's one

Charlie's Generator & Starter Service
8711 Greenwell Springs Rd, Baton Rouge, LA 70814 3.94 mi

Posted by: shuie Oct 8 2013, 02:11 PM

I've already tried the local shops. Nobody will touch it. The guy above told me that 'he wouldn't work on it if is his own mother brought it in, and that I should go to Autozone and buy another one'.

Posted by: r_towle Oct 8 2013, 08:17 PM

Chelmsford auto electric
Tyngsboro, Massachusetts

Never fails me, not 40 buck, but fairly reasonable.

I never buy the rebuilt ones, I always make these guys rebuild them.


Rich

Posted by: shuie Oct 9 2013, 10:52 AM

Okay, I get the dumbass of the day award for thoroughly testing and trying to use the wrong starter. That starter is an SR11X that I bought for my 356 motor. I put the correct SR17X in the car this morning and everything cranked over just fine. Thanks again for the help.

Posted by: Drums66 Oct 9 2013, 08:32 PM

.........

Posted by: Drums66 Oct 9 2013, 08:45 PM

.....Definately.Absotively-posolutely

Posted by: r_towle Oct 9 2013, 09:04 PM