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Posted by: 7TPorsh Nov 18 2013, 12:54 PM

I keep bending my key starting my car. Is it hard to add a button on the dash where I can turn the ignition on with the key but push the button to crank the starter?

I have the button with two terminals. Is it simply one goes to 12v (fused?) and the other goes to the starter? or do I need to mess with the ignition switch?

Posted by: ripper911 Nov 18 2013, 01:01 PM

On a couple of my old beetles I've had a starter button that I believe was pretty much just attached to the starter on one side and the battery on the other, usually mounted onto the E-brake handle.

I don't have them any more, and I'm not exactly sure how I did it now though...

Posted by: toolguy Nov 18 2013, 01:16 PM

You might think about leaving everything as is at the ign switch. and add a secondary relay at the solenoid to opperate the starter. . that way you won't need a large capacity {amp} button and can run a smaller gage wire to the relay from the button. . OR you can find the wiring under the dash for the heated rear window switch and use that to get back to the engine compartment. .
The negative side of this idea is you might inadvertently hit the button with the engine running. . .

OR you can pull the large yellow wire from the Ign switch which goes to the solenoid, move it to a button with a 12V jumper from the large common battery post under the dash. . . however now your button can operate the starter with the IGn switch being off or on. [think bump button]

Posted by: mikesmith Nov 18 2013, 01:19 PM

Make sure the button is good for at least 10A40A or so, and wire it between terminals 15 and 50 on the ignition switch.

This won't be *quite* the same - in particular it won't turn off the accessory power coming out of the ignition switch while cranking - but as long as your battery is good you probably won't notice.

[edit: thanks to Tom for the starter solenoid current number... much higher than I anticipated)

Posted by: Tom Nov 18 2013, 02:08 PM

Gary,
You could do it with a start switch on the dash, but use a switch that handles at least 40 amps. Initial solenoid current is 35 amps. The better way would be to add a relay such as McMark on this site offers and also replace the ignition switch.
I suspect that if you were to open up your ignition switch after replacing it, you would find arc damage and carbon build up around the starter contacts. This comes from the high inductive spike from the solenoid's collapsing field, and from the initial arc from the two contacts suddenly conducting 35 amps. Using a remote relay saves the ignition switch from these damaging events and transfers them to the relay. Relays have different alloys in their contacts to help suppress the arc damage.
Tom

Posted by: Kirmizi Nov 18 2013, 04:47 PM

Ok, I'll bite.
How are you bending your key while trying to start your car?
Is your lock cylinder binding or that difficult to rotate?

Posted by: JmuRiz Nov 18 2013, 05:50 PM

Mine bend too...probably need the locks all redone.
My key is toothpick thin, I'm guessing from years of use and shrinking from years of duplicates.
FYI my ignition key only contacts further up the key...maybe that's something.

Posted by: dlee6204 Nov 18 2013, 05:52 PM

If your key is bending, something is wrong and that should probably be fixed first.

Posted by: Tom Nov 18 2013, 07:18 PM

I expect the key is bending due to the necessity of finding a good electrical contact due to the carbon build up and damage to the key contacts due to the arcing. The leading edge of the contacts is degraded, so further rotation is necessary to find enough contact area to facilitate enough surface area to make sufficient current flow possible.
Tom

Posted by: jimkelly Nov 18 2013, 07:18 PM

summit and jegs both sell a nice momentary switch.

and if you use a relay like, mcmark or mark henry, suggests, then you wouldn't needed such a high amperage one but for $12 by Taylor you may as well go big and use or not use a relay in between.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=224542

jim

Posted by: WLD419 Nov 18 2013, 07:23 PM

I added a starter button on my dash , but I also put a relay under the dash ,it's wired
to the ignition key ,so that it only works when the key is on , I got to test it this
weekend at the ramble , & I liked it , mostly because if I stalled the car I Did Not
have to turn the key all the way back to the off postion and back to the starting
postion , I just push the button , it's quicker , and it only works when the key is on , Bill D.

i's a 40 amp relay , fuse wired to hot wire under the dash , plus grounded , I spliced into the
yellow starter wire after the ignition key ,also spliced the black wire to the relay (hot key on / cold key off ) turns relay on , less stress on key switch ,

Posted by: jim_hoyland Nov 18 2013, 09:32 PM

Good idea. Could you make a diagram for those of us that are visual learners.

Posted by: WLD419 Nov 19 2013, 04:58 AM

Sure , no problem , give me a little time , a day or 2 , Bill D.

Posted by: 1stworks Nov 19 2013, 07:38 AM

I used this starter switch pack..



I unpluged key portion of ignition used test light to figure out what i needed.


Works great if i ever want to plug ignition back in iam good.Put blank black plug in column.
I used wire stripper and pealed back enough wire to sodden wire extension.

I have main electrical cut off for my key.

Posted by: Markl Nov 19 2013, 01:56 PM

On both my cars, I've simply spliced in 12G wire to the ignition harness, red and yellow, and ran to the starter button. All the starter buttons I have, both "racing" and cheapy from local flaps fit neatly into the cigarette lighter hole.

With troubleshooting/tuning the DJet FI, both cars have been started and restarted many times, no issues at all.

Of course, I can't light a cigarette ...

Posted by: Tilly74 Nov 19 2013, 02:39 PM

This is what I'm planning on doing. My teener came with a push button because the ignition stopped working. Instead of putting a new hole in the dash, although small, I'd rather try this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3HgJJpyt8o


There are a few benefits to the cigarette lighter start button that I can see...

1. Allows you to keep a factory looking cigarette adapter, but now makes it useful. (I never use it, I don't smoke cigarettes.... )

2. Serves as a security device. Take the cigarette lighter with you if you don't want anyone driving it when you're not home, or stealing it.

3. It's pretty cool.

Posted by: JmuRiz Nov 19 2013, 03:42 PM

Cig lighter mod is REALLY cool!

Posted by: nsyr Nov 19 2013, 06:37 PM

How about something like this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RFID-alarm-push-button-start-transponder-immobilizer-system-keyless-engine-car-/331019849462

Posted by: jimkelly Nov 19 2013, 06:57 PM

its cool until someone who smokes presses that button, while you are driving, before you can tell them NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I think momentary switch has got to be protected or hard to reach.

Posted by: WLD419 Nov 20 2013, 07:45 AM

Here's a quick sketch , I used a dunebuggy starter button (rubber boot button) you really have to push it to make it work (you don't want a sensitive button ) ,
I hope this helps Bill D.




 12527647e9129233622_1_.bmp ( 511.38k ) Number of downloads: 64

Posted by: jimkelly Nov 20 2013, 08:42 AM

nice drawing.

you could put the switch on 30 as you have or on 86 as well. I think on 86 would be slightly better?

any value in cutting the yellow starter wire between where the relay wire from 30 connects to it and the starter switch itself, as power is going to starter switch under current scenario and starter solenoid too?

Posted by: naro914 Nov 20 2013, 05:36 PM

I used the same Longacres switch set up for Papa Smurf. Works great, comes with two extra switches for 'stuff'.