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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ HELP!! broke chopsticks in combustion chamber
Posted by: opera guy Dec 31 2004, 05:40 PM
sigh,
it was suggested to me from two different sources to use a stick (wooden dowel, pencil, chopsticks...etc) to put into the sparkplug hole to try to find TDC. Needless to say, when ever i work on my car, things gets... complex.
so i got this chopstick in the sparkplug hole... turn the wheel and the chopstick started to go down.. down..good, this is going well, so i thought. then i kept turning the wheel, chopstick start to move up. IM EXCITED!! this is gonna work!!! yes!! then, snap, my chopstick broke in half. half was hanging out the sparkplug hole, the other half fell in!
is my only alternative = pulling the heads? or can i somehow "fish" out the broken chopstick?
argggg help this is a brand new rebuilt, less than 500 miles
Posted by: URY914 Dec 31 2004, 06:23 PM
Shop vac?
Drop in a few termites?
I've got a little tool that has a claw that retracks on the end of it. YOu can get them at Sears.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Bleyseng Dec 31 2004, 06:23 PM
Aaa, I look at the flywheel notch or the fan for the TDC mark. I have used the chopstick in the hole but you remove the stick when you rotate the engine because.....this happens. I reinsert the stick when its close and rotate the engine back and forth to determine exactly where the highest point of the piston stroke is ie: to check the fan marks.
Hmm, looks like you will be pulling the head to remove the piece of chopstick. Thats not good with it in there although it might burn off in 250 miles. It could get stuck in a valve when it opens. again not good.
Geoff 
Posted by: opera guy Dec 31 2004, 06:27 PM
this is plastic chopsticks. looks like i will have to get the claw that was mentioned on the above post. i hope this works
Posted by: URY914 Dec 31 2004, 06:35 PM
Plastic- no problem. Stick a butain torch in there and burn it out.
Posted by: opera guy Dec 31 2004, 06:52 PM
| QUOTE (URY914 @ Dec 31 2004, 04:35 PM) |
| Plastic- no problem. Stick a butain torch in there and burn it out. |
you're kidding right?
Posted by: DJsRepS Dec 31 2004, 08:40 PM
Fire that muther up. Drive it at 5500 shifts around the block should do it. I think it would grind up burn and spit out plastic or wood without dammage within seckonds. I mean it's just a thin strip of plastic what could that do to a combustion chamber. Worst thing it could jam up under a valve for an instant? Bleyseng has good advice on the stick thing but I like mine better how about a drinking straw. It would bend and not break. I just look for timing mark and when the rotor points at #1 wire.
Posted by: Ray Warren Dec 31 2004, 08:52 PM
Not sure if you can see it through the spark plug hole.
What if you took another plastic stick and put a dab of crazy glue on it and touched it onto the one inside and tried to pull it out.
I'm sure that this is easier said than done but might worth a shot.
Posted by: trekkor Dec 31 2004, 09:16 PM
Remember the the Steve Martin bit, "Let's get small"?
Take a small pill and go in and get it... 
Seriously, I think the burn it out or run it out would work.
Or you could put somthing sticky on a stick and pluck it out.
The super glue would would be very hard as it goes off pretty quick.
Try two sided tape.
I think the shop vac should get it. You might have to rotate the engine so a valve is open and the air can really flow. 
KT
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Dec 31 2004, 10:06 PM
Use a magnet!! No. Wait. That won't work. Never mind. How the hell did you break it off in the first place. I hope this post is helpful.
cheers, Elliot
Posted by: kwales Dec 31 2004, 10:14 PM
OK,
Hows about chewing gum on the end of a piece of wire....
Beter yet, poster tack stuff on the end of a wire.
Put it in the plug hole and fish around. Bend wire to reach odd areas.
Ken
Posted by: Rhodes71/914 Dec 31 2004, 10:15 PM
I'm sorry but I don't think I would want to be burning plastic in the combustion chamber of a brand new rebuild. I think that the claw grabber thingy would work, might take some time though. I would try something sticky on the end of another stick (a little bigger that a chpstick so you don't break another one) until you can get ahold of a grabber.
Whatever you do let us know how it turns out.
Posted by: kwales Dec 31 2004, 10:22 PM
I've got a bunch of surgical graspers and those suckers have rigid 5mm shafts. Your reach through the plug hole is mighty limited with a straight shaft. Matter of fact it's range is conical.
I do endoscopic surgical instruments for a living. They call it "keyhole" surgery.
Try the sticky on a wire- bend to increase range of motion.
Duct tape flag might work too.
Ken
Posted by: trekkor Dec 31 2004, 10:34 PM
How about compresed air to blast it out?
Wear safety goggles 
KT
Posted by: bryanthompson Jan 1 2005, 01:03 AM
Fill it with something more dense than the chopstick and maybe it'll float to where you can grab it with tweezers/little grabber or something?
Posted by: TimT Jan 1 2005, 01:08 AM
| QUOTE |
| or can i somehow "fish" out the broken chopstick? |
I dunno can you?
tell us?
Posted by: DJsRepS Jan 1 2005, 06:58 AM
Once the motor is running the airflow only goes one way out the exaust. That plastic wont stand an chance it wont stay around long enough to melt and stick to the cyl or valve. When dropped a valve from cracked springs it made a terrible noise I shut it down pulled over not knowing what happened asked my son to crank it I barley reved it the piston bent the stem and stuck it in the guide but the noise quit and I got home on 3cyl. Any way the reason I posted this is no cyl dammage no head dammage and that was a steel valve bouncing around in there. I did normal valve grind job all new springs and only one valve and guide. I did get LUCKY. So could you.
Anyway I can already tell you dont like my fire that muther method so you could try dropping the exaust if the valve is not open tighten the adj. then pipe in a powerful blower (eg gas driveway blower) to the port with the plug out and turn the crank oppisite the dir you were going incase the plastic is lodged/jammed by the piston that broke it. With all that air blowing in from the bottom of the cyl may churn that plastic around in there untill it sticks out the plug hole....... Another mad method experiment with another chopstick and cup zylene solvent (non acid) see how long it takes to liquefy the stick. If it works just fill that cyl time it the same as the test stick+ 30min leave out the plug put a rag on your plug hole and turn over by hand or go back to fire that muther up!
Posted by: Steve Thacker Jan 1 2005, 07:36 AM
| QUOTE (kwales @ Jan 1 2005, 12:14 AM) |
| OK, Hows about chewing gum on the end of a piece of wire.... Beter yet, poster tack stuff on the end of a wire. Put it in the plug hole and fish around. Bend wire to reach odd areas. Ken |
Ditto
I would try the suggested OR go to your local hardware store and get a roll of flypaper, yes you heard me right. Take a little of that sticky stuff and wrap it around another chopstick. slide it in, swirl it around and trust me it will fish it out. That stuff is the stickiest crap on the planet. Pulling the head would be too much work and the burnout at 5k around the block could cause the stuff to get lodged in the valves also a No..No.
Posted by: opera guy Jan 1 2005, 03:11 PM
well..
1. tried fly paper at the end of another stick... cant feel the broken stick
2. tried shop vac'ing it out, no luck either (with a hack attatchment using 3/8 outer diameter hose)
looks like im gonna have to rip the head out grrrr
Posted by: balljoint Jan 1 2005, 03:25 PM
I still think the vacuum is your best bet. Can you hear the piece rattling around? It may just take a bunch of tries to get the piece to line up with the exit hole.
Posted by: DJsRepS Jan 1 2005, 05:39 PM
try the solvent test on another stick Zylene is strong and melt it out. Or drop the exaust and pipe yard blower into the bottom of it with the plug out.
Posted by: trekkor Jan 1 2005, 08:55 PM
Be patient...
DO NOT TEAR DOWN THE ENGINE OVER THIS!!!
What are the chances that the stick fragment was small and already fell out through the exhaust valve.
Try this: get a small piece of flexible tubing. Stick that in the hole. Use the Shop Vac to suck air through the little tube.
I like the fly paper idea myself. Just don't let it get stuck in there, too. 
KT
Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 1 2005, 08:58 PM
Dude that sux. Don't start it. You'll bend the valves or punch a hole through a piston before the plastic melts. It still needs to pass through the valve seat in a millasecond with out getting pinched, melted or not. If you can't fish it out pull the head. It's gonna sux but it's better than trashing the whole thing.
Posted by: LvSteveH Jan 2 2005, 12:20 PM
Get a metal coat hanger and make a custom set of tweezers, long and thin, then bend the tips at 45 degrees or so in order to grab the broken stick. If all else fails, I can't see how just starting it up and letting it be expelled naturally will do any great harm. Certainly not enough to justify tearing down the motor. Good Luck.
Posted by: cooltimes Jan 2 2005, 12:31 PM
Vacumm sounds best. Considering exactly what you are hoping to suck out of the port. The suction is only as good as the actual size of the hose. In other words, mask off the inlet to the port to fit that 3/8 hose you are using keeping outside air from entering. It should pop right on out.
Just my .02
Cooltimes
Posted by: bernbomb914 Jan 2 2005, 12:53 PM
1. rotate the piston. to close both valves then your vac will be much more effective. 2. bring it up to tdc to get it as close as you can then try to grab it with the flex grabber.
Bernie 
Posted by: DJsRepS Jan 3 2005, 06:04 AM
Its Plastic! Drop another one in a glass of Zylene. Time how long to disolve. Close the vlaves eg loosen the adjusters, Fill the cycl with the solvent. Then adj the exaust valve open to drain then flush with marvel oil and blow out. Man I drove mine home with a dropped then jammed valve, the noise quit when the bent valve stem got jammed into the guide. Head seat piston cylinder all fine with steel hitting the piston. Its only cheap plastic!! Just fire it up and blow it out. .....Try a drinking straw next time it would bend but not break.......Here is one suggestion it may not get the plastic chop stick out but it may help you see it. You could hit the piston with this light. The light is at SEARS. The strange clips you can get at your local yardsale thats where I found mine for a buck.
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Posted by: DJsRepS Jan 3 2005, 06:13 AM
Both the light and the clip would reach deep through the plug hole to the piston Both would fit at the same time. I can let you borrow these or at least the clips as you can get the light at Sears.....OT.. these two tools together look deadly or at least painful!
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Posted by: skline Jan 3 2005, 09:15 AM
I liked the idea of the torch down in the hole and melt it into a small glob. A propane torch wouldnt get hot enough to do any damage to the head or cylinder. Although, if it was me, I would pull the head and do it right.
Posted by: larryp Jan 3 2005, 09:50 AM
I would definitely use the torch; if you did a chopstick on the workbench you would see there isn't even a glob left, it is just a smudge of black ash. That is what would be left in the cylinder.
Posted by: Marty Yeoman Jan 3 2005, 02:18 PM
And that "smudge of black ash" on the pavement was your 914!!
Posted by: Mueller Jan 3 2005, 02:27 PM
I'd pull the head before I tried to melt it with heat or solvent.....
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jan 3 2005, 02:59 PM
Now you see the reason we use a plastic soda straw ........................................................... The Cap'n
Posted by: tracks914 Jan 3 2005, 03:43 PM
Here is what I would do. I wouldn't start the engine, it might work but if it doesn't you could have a real mess on your hands. 
Pull off the header.
Rotate the engine so that the exhaust valve is wide open.
Get a good shop vac with two hoses.
Put one hose from the discharge side of the vacuum blowing into the exhaust port.
Put the other suction side of the shop vac to the spark plug hole.
Have someone under the car swirl the hose around in different directions to create turbulance in the cylinder.
What goes in the spark plug hole should come out. It may take awhile but well worth the effort.
and most of all....................don't do it again! 
Posted by: sanman Jan 3 2005, 04:57 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 3 2005, 12:27 PM) |
| I'd pull the head before I tried to melt it with heat or solvent..... |
Posted by: vsg914 Jan 3 2005, 06:59 PM
| QUOTE (sanman @ Jan 3 2005, 04:57 PM) | ||
|
I concur. Trying to melt a plastic chopstick to oblivion in your combustion chamber is suicide to that chamber. A butane torch can reach in excess of 1000 degrees. Do not start that engine. If it lodges in the vlave, the valve could be blocked open and have a violent meeting with the top of the piston causing a bent valve, loosened valve seat, loosened valve guide, or a hole in the top of the piston, or even all of the above. I'm not sure what advice to give on how to retrieve the chopstick except to keep trying. Sounds like the real problem will be getting the end to line up with the hole.
Good luck.
Posted by: Carl Jan 3 2005, 07:24 PM
| QUOTE (tracks914 @ Jan 3 2005, 01:43 PM) |
| Here is what I would do. I wouldn't start the engine, it might work but if it doesn't you could have a real mess on your hands. Pull off the header. Rotate the engine so that the exhaust valve is wide open. Get a good shop vac with two hoses. Put one hose from the discharge side of the vacuum blowing into the exhaust port. Put the other suction side of the shop vac to the spark plug hole. Have someone under the car swirl the hose around in different directions to create turbulance in the cylinder. What goes in the spark plug hole should come out. It may take awhile but well worth the effort. and most of all....................don't do it again! |
I think Doug has the best idea so far. It could be improved by squirting compressed air in the spark plug hole. Also, using a part of a nylon stocking in the end of the vacuum hose to catch the little vagrant before it disappears into the shop vac.
If that doesn't work, pull the head. Torching the piece will melt it and, when it cools, it will be harder than before. This is bad news if it gets trapped between the valve and the seat.
Posted by: Mueller Jan 3 2005, 07:29 PM
| QUOTE (Carl @ Jan 3 2005, 06:24 PM) | ||
I think Doug has the best idea so far. It could be improved by squirting compressed air in the spark plug hole. Also, using a part of a nylon stocking in the end of the vacuum hose to catch the little vagrant before it disappears into the shop vac. If that doesn't work, pull the head. Torching the piece will melt it and, when it cools, it will be harder than before. This is bad news if it gets trapped between the valve and the seat. |
if you go the exhaust route method, I'd adjust the rocker arm screw on that piston so that the valve opens up as far as possible...just remember to re-adjust the valve adjustment screw back to .006" so that you don't bend the valve if successful and you turn the motor over
Posted by: Sparky Jan 3 2005, 08:25 PM
Soooo...... Is it out yet 
Mike D.
Posted by: kwales Jan 3 2005, 08:29 PM
I think he needs to look in the yellow pages for "Guys that Build Ships In a Bottle" 
Keep trying the sticky stuff.
Ken
Posted by: 9146986 Jan 3 2005, 08:35 PM
| QUOTE (DJsRepS @ Dec 31 2004, 06:40 PM) |
| Fire that muther up. Drive it at 5500 shifts around the block should do it. I think it would grind up burn and spit out plastic or wood without dammage within seckonds. I mean it's just a thin strip of plastic what could that do to a combustion chamber. |
Yea...that's the ticket....
Don't know you DJsRepS, but you've got to be joking right? If not that's a contender for the bad advice of the year! You might break it in enough pieces to get it out the exhaust valve, and maybe not! You could bend a valve, break a piston, all kinds of BAD STUFF! Injection moulded plastic isn't very compressable. Are you trying to sell him an engine????
You made a mistake, don't make it worse. You either fish the thing out with a piece of tape on some stainless tie wire, or one of the other methods suggested here; or you drop the engine and take the head off.
Posted by: tracks914 Jan 3 2005, 09:12 PM
| QUOTE (kwales @ Jan 3 2005, 06:29 PM) |
| I think he needs to look in the yellow pages for "Guys that Build Ships In a Bottle" |
LOL LOL or better yet, guys that dismantle ships from a bottle.
Posted by: Series9 Jan 3 2005, 09:13 PM
| QUOTE (9146986 @ Jan 3 2005, 07:35 PM) | ||
Yea...that's the ticket.... Don't know you DJsRepS, but you've got to be joking right? If not that's a contender for the bad advice of the year! You might break it in enough pieces to get it out the exhaust valve, and maybe not! You could bend a valve, break a piston, all kinds of BAD STUFF! Injection moulded plastic isn't very compressable. Are you trying to sell him an engine???? You made a mistake, don't make it worse. You either fish the thing out with a piece of tape on some stainless tie wire, or one of the other methods suggested here; or you drop the engine and take the head off. |
I totally agree. If you start that engine, you're likely going to hurt it very badly. Either get the chop stick out or remove the head.
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 3 2005, 09:27 PM
best / quickest solution is Tracks914. A cool tool would be sumtin like a colonoscopy probe, about 9mm in dia. w/ camera/ light and various attachments for grabbing !
Know any GI doctors ?
Posted by: tracks914 Jan 3 2005, 09:33 PM
The doctors I know don't hang in the 914 crowd.
They're too rich for that, they drive new 911's.
Posted by: mharrison Jan 3 2005, 09:56 PM
Maybe a gynecologist could get it !!!
Think about this. Get another chopstick, see if it floats in water. IF it floats, fill the cylinder with water....I know, I know, relax it's TEMPORARY...float the chopstick to the top, snag it and pull it out. Syphon the water out. Change the oil, run it, change the oil again. No harm done....
If you don't like the water, test other fluids that you would be more comfortable with and see if the chopstick floats....
Hey, if it doesn't work, you're planning to pull the head anyway.....
Posted by: newdeal2 Jan 3 2005, 10:12 PM
Turn the car upside down and shake it!
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Posted by: Carl Jan 3 2005, 10:32 PM
| QUOTE (mharrison @ Jan 3 2005, 07:56 PM) |
| Maybe a gynecologist could get it !!! Think about this. Get another chopstick, see if it floats in water. IF it floats, fill the cylinder with water....I know, I know, relax it's TEMPORARY...float the chopstick to the top, snag it and pull it out. Syphon the water out. Change the oil, run it, change the oil again. No harm done.... If you don't like the water, test other fluids that you would be more comfortable with and see if the chopstick floats.... Hey, if it doesn't work, you're planning to pull the head anyway..... |
Clever idea, Mike.
I'm not familiar with TIV engines so can the valve spring on the uppermost valve in the cylinder be removed so that the valve can be (carefully) lowered further into the cylinder? With a larger opening, many of the other ideas mentioned here would be possible. Retrieval with a claw, float it out, vacuum it out, flypaper on a stick, etc.
Posted by: SGB Jan 3 2005, 10:46 PM
the engine is in the car, cylinder sideways.... The chopstick has to be down at the bottom. Could you bend a springy wire like a Y with the bottom bent 90 degrees, so you could reach the low side of the cylinder with the upper prongs of the Y hopefully on each side of the stick, then rotate the handle end so that the stick is brought up between the two prongs.... Could be that once it is flipped uo, pulling it back out will cause the stick to get pinched between the wires too.....
good luck, whatever you do.
Posted by: bryanthompson Jan 3 2005, 10:54 PM
I can't believe you haven't gotten it out yet! Are you *sure* it's actually in there? I remember one time I couldn't find my wallet and I wondered around the house for an hour looking… only to find out it was in my pocket the whole time. 
Posted by: bperry Jan 4 2005, 12:58 AM
What about using compressed air pushed in from the exhaust?
Make sure the intake valve is closed, open the exhause valve
then attach your air hose to the exhaust and increase pressure
as needed until it blows out the spark plug hole.
Sealing your air hose to the exhaust will be easier if you have
header stub tubes.
I'd think that a few quick blasts of air might just do the trick.
--- bill
Posted by: trekkor Jan 4 2005, 11:47 AM
It's pushing four days now. 
What did you do "O.G."?
My guess is that you tore it down. ( not what I'd have done ) Please tell me you didn't.
If you didn't,( please ) I'd say you found some way to vacuum it out of there.
Give it up, we're waiting. 
KT
Posted by: scooter311 Jan 4 2005, 02:12 PM
that poky-smiley made me laugh a chicken mcnugget out my nose. And I haven't eaten a mcnugget in, like 3 days
I wonder what happened also? I hope he was able to do it without an engine drop, but if he did, it would be the best time for cleaning things up while it was out
Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 4 2005, 05:50 PM
| QUOTE (scooter311 @ Jan 4 2005, 12:12 PM) |
| that poky-smiley made me laugh a chicken mcnugget out my nose. And I haven't eaten a mcnugget in, like 3 days |
Posted by: tracks914 Jan 4 2005, 06:32 PM
Me thinks he might have tried the "start the engine trick"....burned the engine and doesn't want to talk about it.
But I hope not
Posted by: vsg914 Jan 4 2005, 07:04 PM
Doug, I hope you are wrong. That would suck!!!!!
Posted by: d7n7master Jan 4 2005, 09:51 PM
I have a wood magnet right next to my left handed skyhook that I could let you borrow... or you could pull the head.
Posted by: swood Jan 4 2005, 10:07 PM
Next to the gynocological method, I'd suggest the following. Similar to the filling the cylinder with water (why would anyone do that on purpose ) put the motor on a turnable stand, fill the cylinder with oil which would suspend the piece of plastic, then turn the engine on the stand to pour it back out of the plug hole. This should work well if the piece is not jammed in between the p&c.
I've done alot of things that I would never post on this board for fear of major imbarrasment (ie - motor together with tin...hmmm wheres that cht under that hole in the tin...) (That was a freebie)
Posted by: mr_machines Jan 4 2005, 10:56 PM
shop vac with home-made quarter-inch OD soft copper tubing as the 'suction nozzle'. easily bendable to 'fit the job', and get around obstacles, but stiff enough. you'll have to hold it in place in the 'suction end' of the bigger vac tube, to get it to act as a 'magnet' sort of....shop vac will ;-) need to be running :-) of course
now might be a good time to sell me your engine DIRT cheap, too, though :-) 'cause I need a 2.0...if that's what it is....
good luck 
Posted by: wheelo Jan 5 2005, 01:12 AM
Someone's too busy, doing tear-down, to give-up the final chapter! I have some "Bent" chopsticks, that bamboo is some tough-stuff, from doing the same exact "Trick".That's what you get for using plastic ones ! Mucho Brittle.
Posted by: mharrison Jan 5 2005, 01:22 PM
| QUOTE (swood @ Jan 4 2005, 08:07 PM) |
| Next to the gynocological method, I'd suggest the following. Similar to the filling the cylinder with water (why would anyone do that on purpose ) put the motor on a turnable stand, fill the cylinder with oil |
Well, I did post farther down in my post that you could test other fluids (such as oil) I just wasn't sure that oil would float the chopstick.
Now as for who would put water in an engine......who would put chopsticks in an engine?
I've heard there are some engines that have water in the engine, But I don't think even any of the ricers have chopsticks in the engine.Just kidding....I've used drinking straws and screwdrivers...I just didn't have a chopstick handy in the garage!
You know, like was said, we've all pulled some good ones. This thread is just TOO ENTERTAINING.
Unfortunately, it's at the expense of an owner and a teener that is down right now.
I am eagerly awaiting the results of whatever method might have worked.
Posted by: tracks914 Jan 5 2005, 09:04 PM
One other thing I have used is a long 1/2" drive extention.
Just remember to keep one hand on it and keep it free while you are turning the engine (by hand) It won't ever break off in the engine. works for me.
But where is "chop stick boy" anyway? Hello?
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jan 5 2005, 09:25 PM
I talked with John (aka opera guy)...
he has been too busy to mess with his car
Posted by: Sammy Jan 5 2005, 09:32 PM
Sigh. A little late, but here's my 2 pennies worth:
a few months ago I was putting together my six and I needed to find TDC #1 cylinder.
I didn't stick anything in the cylinder except a compression gauge. i watched the gauge as i turned the engine over by hand and when I started getting to TDC the gauge jumped to about 5 psi.
No drama, works slick as long as you have a mark on your pulley or fan or flywheel to look at to find exact TDC.
If you don't have any of those marks you have more problems that stuff in your cylinder.
Bottom line? I recommend to anyone who cares to listen that you don't stick stuff in your engine that don't belong there. If you can't put your finger over the hole to feel the compression, use a tool that is made to do just that.
They are cheap so money isn't the problem.
Posted by: opera guy Jan 5 2005, 10:47 PM
aint married life a beach? hehehe. no time to work on my car, borrowing dad's lexus for the moment.
914 is stored in a safe garage.
i have tried.
1. cloth hanger, straight, curved, and double curved (two rods, both curved) but cant feel the chopsticks.
2. 3/4 inch outer diameter tubing attatched to 3/4 HP shopvac.. pretty descent amount of suction, but still not enough.
3. bought Xylene, and dip another stick of chopstick in there, does absolutely nothing. i was gonna get Tululene (sp?) but they (Lowel's didnt have any)
4. turn the car upside down and shake (ala beach sand in guitar method) 
just kidding, didnt to that one
for now, i'll have to do without that car for a few more days til i can do the engine drop (by myself) then tear the head open. i really want to do it anyway. just hate to be doing it to a motor that has less than 500 miles 
Posted by: Rhodes71/914 Jan 5 2005, 10:58 PM
Sorry to here that you haven't gotten it out yet but thanks for the update, we have all been unpatiently waiting.
Posted by: 9146986 Jan 5 2005, 11:44 PM
You might try a piece of welding wire with some 3M Scotch33 electric tape on the end. Wrap enough around the wire so you know it won't come off, and leave some adhesive exposed.
You should be able to bend the wire enough to feel the plastic in the bottom of the cylinder.
Have you backed off the piston so it isn't on TDC? The piece may be in a bind? It could also be right against the cylinder head, which would make it straight down from the spark plug hole, and possibly a little hard to reach.
Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 6 2005, 05:58 AM
I would test a chopstick to see if it floats in water. It won't float in oil if it won't float in H2O.
With the piston near TDC it doesn't take a lot of water to fill the combustion chamber.
If it floats you can use a wet vac to remove the water after fishing for the chopstick.
Posted by: URY914 Jan 6 2005, 06:31 AM
What was the name of the hooker that was caught with Hugh Grant years ago?
Just a thought....
Posted by: DJsRepS Jan 6 2005, 06:41 AM
Thanks for at least trying one of my wak ideas Zylene some plastics do desolve quickly. How about droping the exaust pipe, use the valve adjustment to crank open the exaust if needed, and same method to close the intake, spark plug out, then pipe the consistant CFM of air flow from the blowing side of a 3to 5hp shop vac or good gas leaf blower, then with that light I showed you from Sears you will see the thing churning around from all the air blowing in the bottom exaust valve. While doing this slightly move the crank and piston incase it is already binded in there. (3 reasons to use blower instead of an Air compressor.... 1. blower will reamain consistant pressure and flow for an hour if needed. Most home compressors would fall flat in 6osec it would running and blowing at 4o psi if your lucky and with low CFM. 2. Moisture most home air compressors with short hoses and lack of maintaince eg draining the tank will definitly blow some water in the motor. After running alot the tank and hose get warm alowing more water down the hose. 3. The hookup is easy for the blower. Shop vac 2.5"x1.25 adaptor with normal 1.25dia plastic vacuume hose, slit the end of the hose if nessary to fit it to the exaust port. Then use the light wand from Sears to watch the action in the cylinder. Its wand is long enough to hit the piston on the down stroke and will light the whole chamber.
I hope this makes up for the comments others made about my fire that muther up post. I didnt think of clearance problems if a piece held a valve open too far.
PS OT if you ever have used Goof Off from a paint store, used for tar. marker, tree sap removal and 101 other things Zylene does all just the same so dont toss it, it's good stuff.
Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 6 2005, 08:09 AM
The obvious problem with using a solvent is that the residue will surely end up in the rings and promply ruin the engine when it is run. It won't burn off in the rings, but it will carbonize.
My guess is the chopsick is made of styrene and PB blaster might dissolve it better than xylene.
Posted by: Bruce Allert Jan 6 2005, 08:43 AM
| QUOTE (opera guy @ Dec 31 2004, 04:40 PM) |
| then, snap, my chopstick broke in half. half was hanging out the sparkplug hole, the other half fell in! |
I keep coming back to this thread cuz I'm having trouble invisioning what happened. I've done this with a pencil (eraser down on the piston) turned wheel, watch it go up... no problems. What actually caused the stick to break?
OK, so....
Chopsticks are what, 7 to 8" long? (at least the ones I've used are). This is what I'm having trouble with... if said stick is the above mentioned length and half of it is in the cylinder it's gonna be mighty hard to float then retreive that 3-4" piece from within due to its length and the size of the spark plug hole. Also, most chopsticks are at least 3/16's to a 1/4" thick. I doubt if it would pass thru the valve clearance... think of the angle it would need to be at in order for it to do that
If (a very big IF) a fishing excursion were to be successful I'd start by getting the most area available by having the piston at its lowest to enable my moving the stick to an appropriate place and grabbing the end of the stick.
Success would prolly be total luck since this movement would be like driving while blind
but it'd be fun trying
(for awhile) 
....b
Posted by: trekkor Jan 6 2005, 09:50 AM
I have a tremendous patience level.
If I was nearby, you could just sit in the house tiltin' coldies while I do it.
KT
Posted by: Rockaria Jan 6 2005, 10:04 AM
I have also been having a hard time with how the chopstick broke. So I made this annimation to help. I think a 2.0 head would not have broke, but a 1.7 or 1.8 would have due to the angle of the hole and the cylinder.
Posted by: Root_Werks Jan 6 2005, 10:19 AM
| QUOTE (Rockaria @ Jan 6 2005, 08:04 AM) |
| I have also been having a hard time with how the chopstick broke. So I made this annimation to help. I think a 2.0 head would not have broke, but a 1.7 or 1.8 would have due to the angle of the hole and the cylinder. |
That is a cool motion picture of the chopstick incodent.
Posted by: ! Jan 6 2005, 10:25 AM
Don't let SLITS see that animation....he'll get all flusstery.... 
Posted by: DJsRepS Jan 6 2005, 10:48 AM
Nice post Rockaria and good work. Now lets see the one where we get the stick out.
Posted by: Lou W Jan 6 2005, 10:48 AM
If the chop stick does not fit, you must acquit.
Posted by: Rockaria Jan 6 2005, 10:57 AM
| QUOTE (DJsRepS @ Jan 6 2005, 10:48 AM) |
| Nice post Rockaria and good work. Now lets see the one where we get the stick out. |
You mean the picture where the poor guys engine is sitting on the garage floor with the head off?
If you ask me, That is the only way the chop stick part(s) are coming out. The only way to know for sure its all out and clean. If anything went in to my Engine like that... ChopChop DropDrop!
-----------------------------
"friends don't let friends eat Chineese right before working on their 914!"
Posted by: Joe Ricard Jan 6 2005, 11:25 AM
Damn thats alot better picture than the cam lobe to gear thing.
I woulda had the motor apart and back in already. It's not really that hard.
Posted by: Rhodes71/914 Jan 6 2005, 11:36 AM
Rockaria your animation is great.
I have to agree that dropping the engine is the only safe way to go about this. If the engine only has 500 miles on it then it has recently been out so a drop shouldn't be too hard, everything should be fairly clean and familiar.
Posted by: aircooledboy Jan 6 2005, 11:50 AM
| QUOTE |
| So I made this annimation to help |
Christopher, I have paid tall dollars for trial illustrations that couldn't hold a candle to what did here.
That is really well done. We may be in touch on a more formal basis some day. 
Posted by: E-Man Jan 6 2005, 12:37 PM
While resisting the ricer joke temptation, I submit:
http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/10/769.pdf
It's not worthless; it has pictures!
Note that the procedure is usually performed on mental patients, prisoners, inebrieated folks, etc.
We've all been through similar ordeals. Good luck!
Posted by: Bruce Allert Jan 6 2005, 12:38 PM
TOTALLY
Now I understand how it could happen. So glad I kept a hold on the pencil when I did this
Good job Chris
......b
Posted by: Rockaria Jan 6 2005, 12:40 PM
| QUOTE (aircooledboy @ Jan 6 2005, 11:50 AM) |
| Christopher, I have paid tall dollars for trial illustrations that couldn't hold a candle to what did here. That is really well done. We may be in touch on a more formal basis some day. |
Thanks for the kind words. Animations are easy. I just used base pictures from the shop manual and drew the rest in Photoshop, then animated it in ImageReady. It also helped that I had a partialy dissasembeled 1.8 engine on a stand in my garage for reference.
Posted by: opera guy Feb 11 2005, 04:04 PM
First of all, apologies and thanks to the ppl who were so caring about this issue back at the other board. apologies bc i asked for advice and took some of them, but didnt update y'all on what happened.
why didnt anyone tell me server's hdd got chewed up? i got 1.5TB here, im sure i could have spared some. anyway.
i was the dumb ass who broke a piece of plastic chopstick into the cylinder while trying to find the TDC.
i tried vacuuming it out, try sucking it manually (dont recommending it, but the stars were nice tho), try all kinds of chemical, but this plastic didnt even budge, tried tweezer, picks, grabbers, wire cloth hangers mangled into various shapes (these tools make me look like the guy that torture prisoners for information)
long story short, nothing worked, cant even get any kind of grip on the above said chopstick.
so, while walking my dogs, i saw a nice, well kept, white mazda miata for sale, nice price too. i figure, if i busted the motor (less than 1000 miles) i'll just part out the 914 and buy this miata.
so, i went home, fired up the 914, it stopped as soon as it started. so i cranked that baby again, it fired right up. there were some rattle at first, then it stopped. took her out for a test drive.... drove fine.
Posted by: Curvie Roadlover Feb 11 2005, 04:34 PM
I remember following this thread with great interest. Glad everything worked out ok for you. Forget the Miata, keep the 914 
Posted by: opera guy Feb 11 2005, 04:39 PM
yeah, forgotten bout the miata already.
but had i chewed up the motor though... i'd be driving a miata today
Posted by: Beck996 Feb 11 2005, 04:57 PM
Do not burn it out!!! Pull the engine from car. Drop cylynder to bottom of stroke. Valves should be closed. Fill cylinder with 10-40 oil. Stick will float to top where you can "fish" it out with tool ( sugical clamp from Radio Shack). Rotate engine to purge oil.... Its gonna smoke when started and foul your spark plug, but I image the stick will be out.
Posted by: airsix Feb 11 2005, 05:22 PM
| QUOTE (Beck996 @ Feb 11 2005, 02:57 PM) |
| Do not burn it out!!! Pull the engine from car. |
I think that's overkill IMHO. 15 seconds at wide-open throttle and even the cast of CSI wouldn't be able to find a trace of that plastic stick. I could be wrong. That's just my opinion.
-Ben M.
Posted by: DuckRyder Feb 11 2005, 05:36 PM
| QUOTE (mharrison @ Jan 3 2005, 11:56 PM) |
| Maybe a gynecologist could get it !!! |
I don't think that would work, they are used to working in a somewhat more pliable enviroment...
Posted by: kwales Feb 11 2005, 06:15 PM
It's amazing what you can ingest into a cylinder and come out fine.
I sucked the brass accelerator tube out of my solex carb in my Karmann Ghia. Black smoke, good idle, poor acceleration and a rattling that sounded just like a rod knocking. Went around a corner and the knocking went away.
Musta sucked that thing out the exhaust valve and out the header. I figgered brass was soft enough to not damage the pistons, cylinders, valves or seats. New accelerateor spatzel tube and I was back to terrorizing the Florida Geezers. Brmmmmm Brmmmmmm
Ken
Posted by: DJsRepS Feb 17 2005, 05:05 AM
Im the one that said first fire that muther up! And the one that had the special light from Sears and the special hemostat plyers. And the one that said try Zylene to disolve it. And the one that told you that my car dropped a valve and I still drove it home (it jammed into the guide and quit making noise). Also same cyl got filled with water for ? how long. When I fixed it I found minimal dammage one guide and one valve and complete set of springs as that was the failure.. Cyl had a water stain in it but no rust pitting never re ringed it and it d/n smoke or burn oil. Anyway Im sure glad your driving the 914 and not that other thing you were looking at. Man I still drove mine when the seat sat loose on the rust with milk jugs behind it for adjustment and around 8" of rusted floor left seperating you from the ground. I use to think if I hit a big pot hole the seat would eject out the bottom and run me over. I could see the headlines now driver killed by hit and run driver. Victom and driver one in the same! Thats all fixed now but thats how much I like my 914.
Posted by: 9146986 Feb 17 2005, 08:30 AM
Glad to know it worked out for you without incident.
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