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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 2.4L supercharged,electromotive FI

Posted by: DougC Jan 6 2005, 10:42 AM

Found an engine listed as 2.4L with a Paxton supercharged Porsche engine and electromotive programmable FI and ignition. Low miles, excellent condition. I'll try to talk to the owner this evening, but I know nothing else about the engine. I assume it's a 6, right..what else is obvious and should be asked? What kind of money might this set up be worth? Would it be a good engine for a 6 conversion using stock tranny?

Doug C

Posted by: Root_Werks Jan 6 2005, 10:47 AM

I know they make the supercharger kits for 911 engines. I would think this to be a six and yeah, a 901 should hand the hp okay as long as you don't slam 1st. Wonder what hp it puts out? Sounds pretty dang cool to me! IPB Image

Posted by: jd74914 Jan 6 2005, 10:55 AM

Learn something everyday. I didn't know that paxton makes kits for 6 cylinders. My friends uncle has a paxton kit on on his stang, with it he can smoke his tires at 60mph, of course he has some other engine mods (car has been dynoed @ 580hp)

Check out the engine. It sounds wicked cool IPB Image

Posted by: Ferg Jan 6 2005, 11:22 AM

Yeah, sounds cool, I would also like to know what you have found out, but FYI I have seen this kit on a 911 and I think clearance is going to be a huge issure for a 914. He had a turbo tail, and it still needed modifying.
Ferg.

Posted by: jd74914 Jan 6 2005, 11:24 AM

Any car can be seriously modified IPB Image

look at this car http://www.v8914.com/

Out of curiousity, is that guy a member here?

Posted by: DougC Jan 6 2005, 11:28 AM

The clearance issue because of the supercharger? Wonder what the resale value of this paxton would be if I decided to forgo it and keep the electromotive FI and ignition on the 2.4L. Is this older, smaller engine even worth while for a conversion (assuming stock rebuild or in excellent condition)? Guess that mostly depends what kind of money the guy wants, so what price range would make it a viable consideration?

Doug C

Posted by: Mueller Jan 6 2005, 11:43 AM

QUOTE
I didn't know that paxton makes kits for 6 cylinders

I'm betting that Paxton didn't make a kit, you can buy just the supercharger and install it on anything you want (like a lawn mower if you got really thick grass IPB Image )

Doug,

I'd have to guess that it's worth in the $3K to $5K range depending on the condition of the motor....figure $800 to $1000 for the supercharger, $500 to $1500 for the electromotive (really depends on how old and what model)...sounds neat, keep us updated

Posted by: DougC Jan 6 2005, 02:34 PM

You know, looking at this closer it's probably a 2.4L Type4, is that possible for a reliable engine? (read daily driver)

Doug C

Posted by: Root_Werks Jan 6 2005, 02:57 PM

All depends on how/who built the engine. Got any pictures of it?

Posted by: nebreitling Jan 6 2005, 04:05 PM

not going the V8 route?

if this is a Type-4, i'd be very dubious of it unless it was built by a reputable builder. unlikely to be very reliable otherwise.

sounds very interesting in any case.

Posted by: DougC Jan 6 2005, 04:53 PM

No pictures of it yet, been waiting for them most of the day.. Will post Monday if I have some. Will be away from computer on Friday (b-day).
Nathan- I haven't completely decided one way or the other about which engine will end up in this car, just trying to way all my options - don't want to rush into anything. This thing is being offered at "best offer" or "make offer" can't remember. So I'm trying to figure out some numbers.

Doug C

Posted by: DougC Jan 28 2005, 10:38 AM

OK, I got some pictures.. just wondering if this could ever be a depenable engine, even a 2.4L TypeIV without the supercharger? What do ya'll think?

Doug C

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Posted by: DougC Jan 28 2005, 10:39 AM

Another...

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Posted by: DougC Jan 28 2005, 10:39 AM

Last one..

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Posted by: DougC Jan 28 2005, 10:41 AM

I haven't talked to the owner but my first question was gonna be "Will the engine lid even come close to closing?"..

Doug C

Posted by: Reiche Jan 28 2005, 11:10 AM

I doubt it has ever run. Look at the intake pipe between the supercharger and TB. Looks like it is folded in the middle.

Even if it runs, I say Pull the pin and throw! That engine will run HOT HOT HOT. It might give you a chance to max out a CHT (if you can actually keep the heads on.)

1. Looks like homemade "type 1" under-cylinder tins in pic #2. Unless you have a DTM, those will not cool better than the stock tins. HOT

2. It looks like they chopped off the front of the air plenum to the 1-2 side to make clearance for the drive belt. Reduced air flow=HOTT

3. 2.4 liter t4 means it most likely has 103mm cylinders. I see a little rust on them so not Nickies. HOTTT

4. Extra heat from the pressurized intake air. HOTTTT

That engine might be good for 1/4 mile passes, but for daily or track driving, no way.

Posted by: DougC Jan 28 2005, 11:26 AM

Yeah, I kinda figured some of that as well. Being sold as "make offer" so I was thinking about removing the Paxton (reselling it) and running it like that. But I'm not really looking for an engine that will have a tendency to run hot.

Doug C

Posted by: Mueller Jan 28 2005, 11:36 AM

offer him $500 for it....I'll give you a couple hundred for the supercharger IPB Image

Posted by: Ferg Jan 28 2005, 11:39 AM

Ohh I see... I was thinking it was a 911 motor when i made the comments about clearing the lid, that looks like it may fit.
Ferg.

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 28 2005, 11:40 AM

Guys have run the 103's cast iron for years. You will need to run a oil cooler with them plus they suffer from head leaks. Make good power thou.

$500 motor to me.

junk the supercharger

Posted by: Reiche Jan 28 2005, 11:45 AM

Make sure the headers are included. They look like they could be Triads.

Posted by: xitspd Jan 28 2005, 11:52 AM

Be careful! It looks like a hand grenade on steroids......

Posted by: SteveSr Jan 28 2005, 11:53 AM

QUOTE (jd74914 @ Jan 6 2005, 09:24 AM)
Any car can be seriously modified IPB Image

look at this car http://www.v8914.com/

Out of curiousity, is that guy a member here?

Holy crap, ,that car has no brace between the shock towers

SteveSr

Posted by: cnavarro Jan 28 2005, 11:56 AM

Could even be 104s or 105s, which would be very scary with a supercharger. I won't even sell a type 4 Nickies cylinder larger than 102 for a turbo! Anyway you look at it, whoever runs that engine has a death wish IPB Image

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

Posted by: Reiche Jan 28 2005, 01:16 PM

QUOTE (Bleyseng @ Jan 28 2005, 09:40 AM)
Guys have run the 103's cast iron for years. You will need to run a oil cooler with them plus they suffer from head leaks. Make good power thou.

Sure they have. My best friend's 914 has had them for years and had problem after problem, even with an oil cooler. They are marginal on n/a engines. Boosted? BOOM! And anyway, I was referring primarily to this particular engine and the other cooling system problems it has.

Since you brought it up though.... 103s DO run hotter in and of themselves, because they have less cooling capacity built in. If all other fin dimensions are the same, 103mm cylinders will have less fin area than stock due to their larger bore. Less fin area=less heat transfer to air.

But more importantly, as you said, they allow you to make more HP. The more HP you make, the more heat you have to get rid of (unless you can make it more efficiently.) If you are trying to get rid of more heat with less fin area, the air can't take it away. The heat will try to go somewhere else: the head, piston and oil. When it goes to the head, it ends up mostly in the valves, valve seats and sparkplug. You get cracks and dropped seats. When it goes into the oil, it overloads the cooler's capacity, necessitating (as you said) additional oil cooling. However, it takes some time before the hot oil can get out to that remote cooler. So if the fins, head, piston and oil can't get heat out of the cylinders fast enough, they can warp-->head leaks.

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 28 2005, 02:04 PM

Damn...

That looks like a brute to me....

Cast Iron 103s nwon't even hold the cylinder pressures from a normally asperated engine...

Glad i already ate lunch, else I might have lost my appetite

Posted by: jd74914 Jan 28 2005, 02:44 PM

that is wierd

i bet its never ever been run, and I doubt it will ever be

offer $500 for the engine and sell the supercharger

Posted by: DougC Jan 28 2005, 04:20 PM

Doesn't the electromotive fuel injection have any value?

Doug C

Posted by: spare time toys Jan 28 2005, 04:49 PM

Is that motor over in Irving? The shop looks like one I have been to over there. IPB Image Not for you but the Irving shop guy.

Posted by: Mueller Jan 28 2005, 05:05 PM

QUOTE (DougC @ Jan 28 2005, 03:20 PM)
Doesn't the electromotive fuel injection have any value?

Doug C

if it works and is complete, about $500 if it's fuel and spark...less if only spark./..that's an old unit, it should still work, but it's only a tad better than a new megasquirt..........