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Posted by: Cfletch Mar 21 2014, 01:02 PM

Im looking for an engine to purchase that will need a rebuild. my car currently has a 1.7 which is anemic because low comp and what not. I'm planning on building up an engine that can hold good power and torque( nothing too stressful at all) but am not sure what size i should go for? which would be best 1.7, 1.8, or a 2.0? from what i know the actual power differences in these engines is so minuscule as it is.

Posted by: Spoke Mar 21 2014, 01:42 PM

Go 2.0 or larger. Remember: "There's no replacement for displacement".

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 21 2014, 04:20 PM

What are your constraints? Do you need reliability? Longevity? All-out performance? Budget-friendly? Conforming to the rules for a particular racing class? Other?

Lots of possible engines for the 914. Many of the ones that fit nicely aren't even air-cooled... And lots of ways to build a VW Type IV that can meet various goals.

The short answer, which assumes way too many things about your goals: Send McMark $5K and your core motor and get back a 2056cc mill that puts out over 100 honest HP.

--DD

Posted by: Mblizzard Mar 21 2014, 04:32 PM

I was always told "the only thing that beats cubic inches is cubic dollars."

I would go for the 2.0 with 96mm pistons. Have very good performance without a huge sacrifice in drive ability.

Yep can't second guess the McMark recommendation for a build. I have one from him.

Posted by: McMark Mar 21 2014, 06:47 PM

All the cases are the same. You can build a nice 1911 with what you already have. You can add 2.0 crank and rods to go bigger. And you can add 2.0 (3-bolt) heads to make better power. But each step up costs more (not surprisingly). So the best approach is like Dave mentioned, figure out where your desires and budget intersect and work towards that.

It's easy to dream big, but too often cars end up on jackstands forever because of it. I'm guilty of it myself.

Posted by: PanelBilly Mar 21 2014, 06:50 PM

And $5 grand for an engine is a steal.

Posted by: Cfletch Mar 21 2014, 09:23 PM

im looking for something more budget friendly and would like some decent performance along with it. Im just not sure exactly where to begin on this since it would be my 1st time attempting anything of the sort.

Posted by: messix Mar 21 2014, 09:36 PM

if your on a budget first order jake rabys video on type 4 engine rebuild.

then tear apart your engine and check the crank, rods and do all the checks on the case.

then you can decide if just ordering a 1911cc kit and a fresh set of bearings and seals and the 1911 kit will get what you want.

Posted by: patrick3000 Mar 24 2014, 04:26 PM

Tell us more about the 1911 option, details please.

Posted by: dirk9141973 Mar 24 2014, 05:15 PM

:agree:The only difference in 1911 and 2056 is money and parts !! I'm very happy with the 2056 only issue is extra cooling. The Rabys video is easy to follow another good tool is the one by van ? On you tube. Have fun!!

Posted by: messix Mar 24 2014, 05:36 PM

a 1911cc is a 1.7/1.8 [66mm stroke] made larger with a set of larger cylinders and pistons 96mm. you can take you cylinders to a machine shop and have them bored to the over sized spec for just a little less than buying new ones and giving that you have original German cylinders that is the preferred method because they are better quality.

the 2056 is a larger bored 2.0 with the same methods as above [96x71mm].

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 24 2014, 06:41 PM

Note that you can take 1.8 liter cylinders (originally 93mm bore) to the machinist and have them bored. Not the 1.7 liter ones which were only 90mm bore; they'll be very thin when finished and there are good chances you won't be happy with the result after a while. You can also use 2.0 cylinders (94mm bore) to make some 96es out of.

Note that if you have 1.7 heads, you need to have them cut to accept either 1.8 or 2.0 cylinders, as the sealing area on the latter heads is larger.

--DD

Posted by: malcolm2 Mar 24 2014, 09:19 PM

There are tables, calculators, HP graphs all over the web and many posts about the conversion, let's see if I can remember and add something new to the conversation:

1.7 liter is 1670-ish cc? has 66mm crank and 90 mm pistons (66 x 90)
1.8 liter is 1756 cc (66 x 93) again crank x pistons
2.0 liter is 1980-ish cc (71 x 93?)
1911 cc conversion is (66 x 96)
2056 cc conversion is (71 x 96)

The 71mm crank has smaller rod journals and they are offset. So changing cranks increases cost cause you need new rods.

My thought was if you are buying new pistons and cylinders anyway, go ahead and get 96mm. As Dave said the 1.7 heads will probably need to be cut for those to fit, but you should get your heads repaired anyway, freshen up the valves and other goodies on the heads.

As a side note the 2.0 valves are bigger and have the plugs in a different place, so your tins will need replacing or at least some welding and hole cutting.

I used the "while your in there plan" on my heads and had the 1.8 heads ported for 2.0 sized valves. No need to change my tins that way.

I think that is it... But don't forget to replace the oil galley plugs!

Posted by: larryM Mar 24 2014, 11:19 PM

cheap solution: go to pick'n'pull and get a 2.0 VW Bus motor for about !50 or less

now you have a type-4 2.0 case, crank, cylinders, etc

- throw away the bus heads ( bus heads have square exhaust ports) & toss the dished bus pistons

buy a set of stock or euro 914- 2.0 pistons

have your 1.7 heads reworked by FAT or some other VW outfit that does this routinely