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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ What is this tail from?
Posted by: Rider914 Jan 9 2005, 10:58 PM
Is this a Red Dawg made tail or is it from the factory on something? Why I ask is there is a P car emblem on it. . . are the lawyers going to come grind it down?? 
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Posted by: Rider914 Jan 9 2005, 10:59 PM
another
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Posted by: DJsRepS Jan 10 2005, 05:15 AM
It looks cool from the side but not the from the top unessary louvers, unless you have a V8 with a trick rad blowing out thoes vents.
Posted by: Jeroen Jan 10 2005, 06:01 AM
That's a 930 (or 911 turbo) rear wing
Normally, it has a rubber "lip" which is now done in f/g as well
Posted by: Rider914 Jan 10 2005, 09:05 PM
Jeroen - is that "lip' the black rubber thingy that I see on some 911 tails? I didn't know it came off. . . thanks
Posted by: skline Jan 10 2005, 09:09 PM
I kind of like it. You could mount an oil cooler up in there and it would be functional. Nice color too.
Posted by: Mueller Jan 10 2005, 09:16 PM
i think the original 930 factory tails had the rubber lip....it was probebly easier to manufacture at the time....
personally, i think the "turbo" tail on a 914 is one of the worst add-ons I've ever seen....it's like a big pimple just sitting there....I view it as another way for a 914 owner to try impress those 12 year old kids that don't know the difference, they just see a "turbo" tail and get excited....might as well install a 200 mph speedometer, that'll impress 'em just the same 
http://rennspd.com/Products.asp?Task=STD&catID=8&modID=7&YrID=1
Posted by: Rider914 Jan 10 2005, 09:17 PM
If I cut the trunk, would the air flow through? Without a lid over the engine the air comes up and vortexes (swirls) into the cabin. . . You would think air would go from top to bottom.
Posted by: Mueller Jan 10 2005, 09:23 PM
I really don't know, the flow characteristics of the 911 and 914 are different ...
pretty soon I'll have a rear deck lid you can have for free to test out if you want to pay for shipping (not perfect, but good enough to test with)
Posted by: Mueller Jan 10 2005, 09:25 PM
do you want air to go in or out?
Posted by: Rider914 Jan 10 2005, 09:27 PM
Muller - I agree that the tail is a bit much for the 914, but it fits my car. I run a 350 with a heavy cam and straight pipes. And it is a little "yellow". One day I want a stock 1.7 also.
You once had a porschev?
Posted by: Mueller Jan 10 2005, 09:32 PM
hope I didn't piss ya off too much
I sold my 350 to 'Chung here on the list....I wish I would have kept it, but I don't have much restaint behind the wheel and I'm sure I would have lost my license or worse had I kept it 
Posted by: Rider914 Jan 10 2005, 09:32 PM
Mueller (sorry bout the miss-spell)
I am just wondering if it would go up or down if I cut a hole in the deck lid and a hole in the floor of the trunk. . .
Posted by: Rider914 Jan 10 2005, 09:51 PM
| QUOTE |
| hope I didn't piss ya off too much |
Don't worry I don't really care what others think. . . In a sick way I like to hear others diss it - At a DE I had to step away from the large crowd that was around the car and I overheard a BMW guy say to another "you spend 60k on a 914 and it is still a 914.
I laughed all the way around him in the straight later. . . I know it hurt to wave me around.
Posted by: seanery Jan 10 2005, 10:13 PM
| QUOTE (Rider914 @ Jan 10 2005, 10:51 PM) | ||
Don't worry I don't really care what others think. . . In a sick way I like to hear others diss it - At a DE I had to step away from the large crowd that was around the car and I overheard a BMW guy say to another "you spend 60k on a 914 and it is still a 914. I laughed all the way around him in the straight later. . . I know it hurt to wave me around. |
I would have waved as I passed him....
Posted by: skline Jan 10 2005, 10:27 PM
If you spent 60k on a 914, you need some serious medical help. I could build a V8 914 to be bullet proof for about 25k complete. I did my Chalon for less than about 13k so far and yes, there are some things I wish I could afford but if I had the money, the transmission I would run would be about 4k and the axles another grand but I would still be way under budget.
Posted by: SirAndy Jan 10 2005, 10:56 PM
| QUOTE (Rider914 @ Jan 10 2005, 07:32 PM) |
| I am just wondering if it would go up or down |
at that angle, *down* ...
right now, you're probably losing 10mph off your top speed due to the drag of that thing.
it would be much better if it didn't have the louvers (sp?) ...
there are other 911-style wings for the 914 that don't have the openings and are much better suited.
and you can't really use it for cooling back there either unless you have a turbo and you put your intercooler in there.
but you would still have to cut some openings in the back to channel the air out of it.
right now, it's just slowing you down. but hey, at least it looks cool!
Andy
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 10 2005, 11:33 PM
Andy, that's how I do it (as in my avatar)... slight wing at 15deg ,1100cfm intercooler and a small portion of the 911 rear decklid grille (under wing) to exit the waste air-via the vortec behind the car.Boosted Intake temps are only about 20 deg over ambient outside air temps with the setup 
Otherwise I'd go with a Sheridan wing for all/motor setup.
Marty
Posted by: Rider914 Jan 11 2005, 05:45 AM
| QUOTE |
| If you spent 60k on a 914, you need some serious medical help. I could build a V8 914 to be bullet proof for about 25k |
Oh No, It was nothing near that - back in the 90's when the stock market did nothing but go up, I dropped $900.00 on a tech and sold it two weeks later for $6k. This is my 900 dollar car.
If I had held I would be sitting on .00003 cents right now.
Maltese - do you have a pic of the lid closed? I like it. . .
Posted by: Rider914 Jan 11 2005, 05:54 AM
| QUOTE |
| right now, you're probably losing 10mph off your top speed due to the drag of that thing. it would be much better if it didn't have the louvers (sp?) ... |
Yup, pure rice. I have seen 140 on a gps. I doubt the tail does much more than make the trunk hard to open tho.
Posted by: neo914-6 Jan 11 2005, 09:17 AM
Jay,
Following 80's Turbo styling, that tail is suitable for a Chalon. I mounted an AA tail to compliment the slopenose on my V8 914. Too visually extreme for most people but when you convert to V8 you have more "license"
Martin,
I am also interested in your intercooler flow management. I am zeroing in on my new powerplant and it will almost certainly be turbo charged, twin if the stars align correctly. A couple of us are researching rear mounted radiators as well for watercooled engines. Since they are 6's they won't need large capacity rads...
Posted by: SirAndy Jan 11 2005, 12:40 PM
| QUOTE (Rider914 @ Jan 11 2005, 03:54 AM) |
| Yup, pure rice. I have seen 140 on a gps. I doubt the tail does much more than make the trunk hard to open tho. |
just having the headlights up takes 10 km/h off your top speed.
taking the top off is even worse.
you do the math ...
Andy
Posted by: andys Jan 11 2005, 01:11 PM
So what are we trying to fix (aero wise) with the spoiler? It is my understanding that the stock 914 has some rear lift at high speeds.....probably not much of a problem for a 4 cyl. street car, but a perhaps a 6, a track car, and a V8 could spell disaster if not properly managed. I have seen track cars with big rear wings; must be a reason for them. Another thing I read and saw photo's of, were vents to exhaust air trapped under the rear and/or engine bay that were cut into the rear tailight panel or the top of the trunk lid. I would think this would be the best first approach. FWIW.
Opinions on how the Turbo tail looks, is purely personal. Yes, a V8 car probably has some "license" for wings 'n things.
Andy
Posted by: SirAndy Jan 11 2005, 02:05 PM
| QUOTE (andys @ Jan 11 2005, 11:11 AM) |
| I have seen track cars with big rear wings; |
yes.
i don't have a problem with the (a) wing itself. my comment was about the louvers trapping air *inside* the wing, creating additional drag.
if it hadn't the louvers, the wing would do what it's designed for, create downforce at higher speeds.
right now, it does that + creating a lot of drag, which is bad.
for this to work right, he either needs to close up the louvers (sp?) or create a way for the trapped air to exit (make holes on the back of the wing.
from my understanding, the opening in the wing right now does not serve any purpose other than looks, so having the louvers is not neccessary ...
just my 2 cents,
Andy
Posted by: Mueller Jan 11 2005, 02:25 PM
| QUOTE (SirAndy @ Jan 11 2005, 01:05 PM) | ||
yes. i don't have a problem with the (a) wing itself. my comment was about the louvers trapping air *inside* the wing, creating additional drag. if it hadn't the louvers, the wing would do what it's designed for, create downforce at higher speeds. right now, it does that + creating a lot of drag, which is bad. for this to work right, he either needs to close up the louvers (sp?) or create a way for the trapped air to exit (make holes on the back of the wing. from my understanding, the opening in the wing right now does not serve any purpose other than looks, so having the louvers is not neccessary ... just my 2 cents, Andy |
he'd like to make the wing work for cooling.....I'm courious if it would work and how well...I know one 911 V8 guy mounts his radiators in the 930 type wing...would a setup similar work in a 914 if the appropriate holes are cut in the trunk floor???
Posted by: Jeroen Jan 11 2005, 03:24 PM
the 930 (and carrera) 911 wings were designed as an exit for hot air
the air velocity over the wing will suck it out of the engine compartment (on a 911 that is)
930/911 turbo's have the intercooler sitting right underneath them
but I think a 911 has much more air flowing over the face over the spoiler than the same spoiler would have on a 914
The targa hoop of the 914 f's up the airflow pretty good. From windtunnel pics I've seen from the 914, about 2/3's of the rear hood is a low pressure area and only the very last part of the hood gets some pressure again
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 11 2005, 08:44 PM
Rider914, I'm limited at this time on jpegs --due to needing to finish up scanner to PC 
. There were a few good pix of the car (trunk open/closed) featured in "Excellence" June '03 issue.
Felix, the air management of the I-cooler setup works so well that you can toast your right hand and freeze the left if you hold the side tanks after a hard drive !
A coolant radiator would need to stand up more--as to not trap air pockets. This will be a design challange, you don't want the car to look like a WEC rallye racer 
Der Falconater
Posted by: neo914-6 Jan 13 2005, 03:21 AM
| QUOTE |
| From windtunnel pics I've seen from the 914, about 2/3's of the rear hood is a low pressure area and only the very last part of the hood gets some pressure again |
Mike, I'd like to see those...
| QUOTE |
| A coolant radiator would need to stand up more--as to not trap air pockets. This will be a design challange, you don't want the car to look like a WEC rallye racer |
Martin,
but it would be nice to reduce, simplify the cooling system and the boxster dual rads aren't too tall. How much R&D did you do to get the I/C's right?
Posted by: Jeroen Jan 13 2005, 05:14 PM
here's the pic
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Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 15 2005, 12:32 AM
Felix, when I did the intercooler in '95, I simply bought the largest Spearco cooler offered 'cause you can't go wrong on the pressure drop (when going too big ) on the cfm. Too small of an intercooler will start scrubbing off boost--which is problematic when trying to fit certain size coolers in tight spaces. Turbonetics bought Spearco 2 years ago and their catalog has real good cfm flow charts for turbos, intercoolers, etc.
I recommend the catalog to DIY's , as it makes calculations real easy !
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