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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Somebody at VW-Porsche should be shot
Posted by: Brett W Jan 15 2005, 10:23 PM
Damn, wheel bolts. Who the hell would put wheel bolts on a wheel that is not hub-centric? Obviously some brilliant engineer who forgot studs are better than bolts.
I forgot how much fun these cars are.
Posted by: xsboost90 Jan 15 2005, 10:26 PM
yeah i never did like them damn bolts..on mercedes or otherwise.
Posted by: campbellcj Jan 15 2005, 10:37 PM
The crazy thing is that several manufacturers STILL use the bolts! I have no idea why; even though the hubs/wheels are of course designed with the appropriate geometry, do they think it's "fun" trying to mount a 35lb wheel+tire one-handed while the other hand -- the weaker/uncoordinated side of course -- attempts to start the lug bolt w/o cross-threading it?
Studs are a good thing...for a track car, they're a necessity IMO
Posted by: wrpspddrvr Jan 15 2005, 10:59 PM
Yes! I get to help!
Back when I was a Distilled Petroleum Distribution Engineer (Pump jocky at a full service gas station), one of my many tasks was mounting and balancing wheels, fixing flats, etc. I always got ticked off about the wheel bolts too, until I discovered a trick. Sit facing the car, stick your legs under the car, rest the tire on your thighs or shins, centered on the hub, and lift into the approximate position with your legs. This leaves both hands free to thread two or three bolts, which'll hold the wheel on while you insert and tighten the rest. Voila!
Cole 
Posted by: ejm Jan 15 2005, 11:49 PM
| QUOTE |
| The crazy thing is that several manufacturers STILL use the bolts! |
Yup...but some of the better ones provide a 4" threaded rod...screw it into the hub and you've got something to hang the wheel on while starting the bolts...shouldn't be too hard to make something similar..
Posted by: Rhodes71/914 Jan 15 2005, 11:54 PM
| QUOTE (wrpspddrvr @ Jan 15 2005, 08:59 PM) |
| Yes! I get to help! Back when I was a Distilled Petroleum Distribution Engineer (Pump jocky at a full service gas station), one of my many tasks was mounting and balancing wheels, fixing flats, etc. I always got ticked off about the wheel bolts too, until I discovered a trick. Sit facing the car, stick your legs under the car, rest the tire on your thighs or shins, centered on the hub, and lift into the approximate position with your legs. This leaves both hands free to thread two or three bolts, which'll hold the wheel on while you insert and tighten the rest. Voila! Cole |
Exactly the method I use, works fine.
Posted by: type47fan Jan 16 2005, 12:14 AM
| QUOTE (Rhodes71/914 @ Jan 15 2005, 09:54 PM) | ||
Exactly the method I use, works fine. |
My first car was a '58 VW and changing the tires was a challenge until I "discovered" that method of balancing the wheel on my shins while locating the first bolt. I once read an engineer's reason for bolts over studs on road wheels. I'll try to find it again.
Posted by: Brett W Jan 16 2005, 12:30 AM
There is no engineering reason for using a bolt in place of a stud. It is a bean counter issue.
Posted by: markb Jan 16 2005, 12:41 AM
| QUOTE (Rhodes71/914 @ Jan 15 2005, 09:54 PM) | ||
Exactly the method I use, works fine. |
Posted by: SpecialK Jan 16 2005, 02:06 AM
| QUOTE (ejm @ Jan 15 2005, 09:49 PM) | ||
Yup...but some of the better ones provide a 4" threaded rod...screw it into the hub and you've got something to hang the wheel on while starting the bolts...shouldn't be too hard to make something similar.. |
Brilliant!!
Simple and effective!Through a couple of threaded rods in with the spare. Then install them across from each other on the hub to hold the wheel in place while you install the bolts.
I usually do the "sit on your ass and hold the wheel with your shins" method, but something's getting dirty doing it this way, and I never did like the idea of having my legs under the car with out a jack stand as back up.
Posted by: Part Pricer Jan 16 2005, 06:55 AM
| QUOTE (ejm @ Jan 16 2005, 12:49 AM) |
| Yup...but some of the better ones provide a 4" threaded rod...screw it into the hub and you've got something to hang the wheel on while starting the bolts...shouldn't be too hard to make something similar.. |
My Passat came with one. VW calls it a "Tommy Bar". It works great on the 914. I picked up an extra one at the VW parts counter. It cost me around $3.00.
Posted by: itsa914 Jan 16 2005, 07:42 AM
| QUOTE |
| My Passat came with one. VW calls it a "Tommy Bar". It works great on the 914. I picked up an extra one at the VW parts counter. It cost me around $3.00. |
Well I guess I will check this out. Its always a pain to swap wheels when AXing.
Posted by: Part Pricer Jan 16 2005, 07:50 AM
Here's the part number: 893 012 223
and a pic
Attached image(s)
Posted by: dmenche914 Jan 16 2005, 11:24 AM
Studs suck, have them on some other car, everytime the wheel is removed or replaced, it drags a bit on one or more of the studs, eventually it will wear the exposed threads. When using the leg/shim support method of botled wheels, there is little chance of bugging up a thread, and even so, it is much easier to replace a bolt, than a stud.
I think them Germans were up to something. Bugger up a thread on a stud, and you got potentially a headache of a replacement, bolts, no sweat.
dave
Posted by: Engman Jan 16 2005, 11:40 AM
My 914 has influenced my commercial lawn mower designs. I had an ouside company develope a new hub drum with studs for the rear drive wheels.
There are other things that the 914 inspired but this is the most noticeable on my machines.
Go to http://www.gizmow.com
And look at the video.
M
Posted by: SpecialK Jan 16 2005, 06:17 PM
The requirement to have a trailer handy? 
Slick mower Mark! The video really illustrates the cam controlled front wheel steering. Made it all the way through the AX course without some much as bumping a cone. 
Kevin
Posted by: ! Jan 16 2005, 07:14 PM
The jack handle on mine was small enough that it fit in the wheel hole and the drum/rotor....stick it in....hold the wheel thread the first bolt in and the next two...pull the handle BAM....yer there.
Posted by: Brett W Jan 17 2005, 01:29 AM
| QUOTE |
| Studs suck, have them on some other car, everytime the wheel is removed or replaced, it drags a bit on one or more of the studs, eventually it will wear the exposed threads. When using the leg/shim support method of botled wheels, there is little chance of bugging up a thread, and even so, it is much easier to replace a bolt, than a stud. |
I have had the wheels off and on my cars more in 5 years than most people have over the life time of there cars. Never ever had a problem with wheels measing up threads. How does a soft cast aluminum wheel bend steel. Not possible. You won't ever wear the stud out.
Posted by: Spoke Jan 17 2005, 02:19 AM
| QUOTE (dmenche914 @ Jan 16 2005, 09:24 AM) |
| I think them Germans were up to something. Bugger up a thread on a stud, and you got potentially a headache of a replacement, bolts, no sweat. |
My A6 has lug bolts too. They're a bit harder to install than lug nuts although the lip on the hub helps center the tire. Then a knee to the bottom of the tire when mounting leaves both hands free.
Spoke
Posted by: banderson Jan 17 2005, 07:59 AM
technically, they are screws, not bolts. Bolts are always used with a nut, and screws are always threaded into a part, I think.
That is the difference between a screw and a bolt.
I hate the screws too and therefore, pressed in 911 studs when I did my brake rotors. Much better.
Posted by: michaelmoo Jan 17 2005, 08:41 AM
the 986 (boxster), 996, and 997 also use "screws".
they also come with that same neat little tool to line up the wheels.
Posted by: Walter Jan 17 2005, 09:02 AM
| QUOTE (michaelmoo @ Jan 17 2005, 06:41 AM) |
| the 986 (boxster), 996, and 997 also use "screws". |
Well, those engineers are probably still alive
Posted by: jfort Jan 17 2005, 09:31 AM
I have screws on a 87 MB 300 SDL, my daily driver when deisel is cheaper than gas. They are about 5" long and no longer made. The tire place calls them lug nuts. Anticipating the Christmas blizzard, I went to get new tires. They snapped one on the left rear, outside the coller that hold on the wheel. It cost me $150 to get it drilled out. What a pain. Also, the "knees under the tire" method esposed above is a pain when you are in a suit on the side of the interstate in the rain.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jan 17 2005, 10:31 AM
any wheel shop can put studs in place (pressed) and it doesn't cost much..
it's on my list definately!
Posted by: Headrage Jan 17 2005, 10:47 AM
I have studs on mine. What I don't like is the nuts with the plastic caps. I want to get the shiney silver ones for alloy wheels. Not sure where to get them though.
Posted by: SteveSr Jan 17 2005, 11:55 AM
| QUOTE (Brett W @ Jan 15 2005, 08:23 PM) |
| Damn, wheel bolts. Who the hell would put wheel bolts on a wheel that is not hub-centric? Obviously some brilliant engineer who forgot studs are better than bolts. I forgot how much fun these cars are. |
The
engineers probably never had to change tires on these cars.SteveSr
Posted by: Mueller Jan 17 2005, 12:49 PM
| QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jan 17 2005, 09:31 AM) |
| any wheel shop can put studs in place (pressed) and it doesn't cost much.. it's on my list definately! |
hmmm....
just for the rear I'd guess it to be:
8 new studs @ $5.00 a pop = $40
machining and pressing = $50 minimum
2 new rear wheel bearings = $80
2 new CV gaskets = $3
not as cheap as one would hope it to be
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jan 17 2005, 01:10 PM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 17 2005, 01:49 PM) | ||
hmmm.... just for the rear I'd guess it to be: 8 new studs @ $5.00 a pop = $40 machining and pressing = $50 minimum 2 new rear wheel bearings = $80 2 new CV gaskets = $3 not as cheap as one would hope it to be |
changing the tire once on the side of a road would make it worth every penny though... that's what I mean by "doesn't cost much"
a local place actually quoted me $200 for all 4 last summer, which is not that bad...
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