Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
914World.com _ 914World Garage _ What would you pay for this 914?
Posted by: Cuda911 May 28 2014, 03:33 AM
New poster here, but far from new in terms of reading the forums on this site. I am an avid participant on Rennlist, and the Rennie guys highly recommend the 914world folks. Isn't this great? Our love of Porsches overshadows any competition between web sites. I have an '03 911 (ok a 996), and an "07 Cayman. But, I have a big time 914 itch that needs scratching. I need to add a 914 to the stable.
OK, guys, some armchair quarterbacking requested.
This weekend, I read EVERY thread on the 914 forum here. I have my 914 requirements narrowed down to the following: 1973 2.0, or 1974 2.0 with appearance group. Any color except black.
With that said, it narrows down even more the slim field of cars on the market.
So, I have a car I am considering... 1973 2.0 .... it meets the criteria, but is in worse shape than I had hoped for. I didn't really want a "project" car, but maybe that's the best way to go to end up with what I want.
A friend (fellow Rennie CP.... THANKS CP!!!!!!!) looked at the car for me today (it's about a six hour drive from me). The seller arranged to leave the keys for CP. Alas, seller also neglected to tell CP that he took the battery out recently and forgot to re-install it.
So, I am working with limited information so far. Seller says car is in good running condition. I'll get that verified. So, ASSUMING the car runs, what do you think of it based on these photos?
You will note items like that goofy antenna, crappy side-view mirror, wing, etc. Those are minor fixes. Also, that doesn't look like a 1973 front bumper to me.
What would you think is a fair price for this car, based on the pix?
Per seller:
"Battery tray is not great but suspension member is solid as is body under the battery tray. Surface rust on edge of trunk lid and driver a pillar."
"I bought the car from an older couple who spent a ton of money on new clutch, tires and other stuff then just let it sit. I got it, got it running and here we are. Odometer says 23,xxx but it's a 5 digit odometer. Engine runs strong, no idea on mileage. Has stock fuel injection."
"New clutch, ignition coil, tires, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator"
http://postimg.org/image/8v6f2v8mx/66cc4a11/
http://postimg.org/image/vsbmuwvuv/8037d872/
http://postimg.org/image/fctzt6s89/a3bde0b2/
http://postimg.org/image/vh1kxdf4h/
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Big Len May 28 2014, 03:47 AM
First, it has 75-76 front clip with earlier rear bumper.
How much?
Posted by: Cuda911 May 28 2014, 03:51 AM
First, it has 75-76 front clip with earlier rear bumper.
How much?
He's asking $4,500 OBO.
Posted by: Cuda911 May 28 2014, 03:56 AM
A few more pix.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Porschef May 28 2014, 04:21 AM
Uh, no. 
Keep looking. How many cars have you looked at?
You're in So Cal, probably there's a couple more around for sale... 
Posted by: Mikey914 May 28 2014, 04:30 AM
I think you can do better. There are alot of gremlins hiding in this one. The rust you see is allways the tip of the iceburg.
Posted by: Cuda911 May 28 2014, 04:39 AM
Thanks for the replies. My thoughts are this: Offer 4K, spend 6 to 7 K to restore to "reasonable" condition, then have a fun car I can drive for 5 or 10 years, with the expected ongoing maintenance.
Re: "How many cars have you looked at?" Probably 100 or so on the Net, about 5 in person.
Posted by: bulitt May 28 2014, 04:48 AM
You read the replies but are blinded by the overwhelming desire to own a 914.
California is the land of really decent 914's. You can do better. You can do better.
Probably closer to 5k for bodywork, and a long time in the shop getting it done. Then paint $$$. Brakes, Interior, New rubber seals...$$$
You
Can
Do
Better.
IMHO
Posted by: ripper911 May 28 2014, 05:09 AM
much better cars for 5k out there. I'd be turned of by the mismatched front and rear, it must have been damaged.
Posted by: hot_shoe914 May 28 2014, 05:12 AM
For $4500, you will only be over paying by $4000 in my opinion. Buy a nice car you can drive now for more money. You will be glad you did!
Posted by: mepstein May 28 2014, 05:12 AM
I bet it's been hit and it's very rusty. Just my opinion. Good luck with the search.
Posted by: carr914 May 28 2014, 05:22 AM
$1500
Posted by: 914itis May 28 2014, 05:25 AM
Here is a good one from someone you can trust.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=236644&hl=
Posted by: mepstein May 28 2014, 05:58 AM
Here is a good one from someone you can trust.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=236644&hl=
I like that car. But I think the price is a bit high unless the rust is minimal.
Posted by: Java2570 May 28 2014, 06:02 AM
Pass on that red car....too much wrong with it and if you think you'll only spend
$5-7 on repair, it'll actually be 2 or 3x that cost. I'd start looking at cars that
are in better shape at the start, unless you really want a project. Up your budget
for purchase price and you'll come out ahead. And since you're in CA, one of our
CA members can help with looking at cars with you.
Posted by: Cairo94507 May 28 2014, 06:19 AM
You should pass on that unless you really want a project car and can buy it for $1,000. 
Posted by: carr914 May 28 2014, 06:40 AM
Here is a good one from someone you can trust.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=236644&hl=
I like that car. But I think the price is a bit high unless the rust is minimal.I disagree, I think the car is under-priced and Rory has been around & knows his 914s
Posted by: 914itis May 28 2014, 06:45 AM
Here is a good one from someone you can trust.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=236644&hl=
I like that car. But I think the price is a bit high unless the rust is minimal.I disagree, I think the car is under-priced and Rory has been around & knows his 914s
All the leg works has been done to this car, he went over it and do all that needed attention priceless . I would buy any car from him with my eyes closed.
He is been around 914 for years, he knows them well and honest.
Posted by: brant May 28 2014, 06:56 AM
You have to pull the rockers before you buy a car. And don't bother with this one it's rust is already visible
I would seriously consider any year without rust over a car with rust
Posted by: KELTY360 May 28 2014, 07:07 AM
$1500
Have you read any of the threads where somebody gets a good deal on a car with 'only a little rust' and discovers a money pit hiding under oxidized paint? Good luck.
Posted by: KELTY360 May 28 2014, 07:19 AM
Thanks for the replies. My thoughts are this: Offer 4K, spend 6 to 7 K to restore to "reasonable" condition, then have a fun car I can drive for 5 or 10 years, with the expected ongoing maintenance.
Re: "How many cars have you looked at?" Probably 100 or so on the Net, about 5 in person.
$4,000 + $6-7,000 = $10-11,000
Buy an $8-9,000 914, spend $2-3,000 (same $10-11,000 range) and you'll have what you're looking for. You'll end up spending less and getting more by staying away from bottom feeder cars.
Posted by: bandjoey May 28 2014, 07:34 AM
$500 or pass. You will be disappointed. Go to the restoration threads and look at the carnage under the paint.
Posted by: tornik550 May 28 2014, 07:36 AM
Most I would pay is 1k and I probably wouldn't even do that. There are so many other nice ones out there.
Posted by: Tom May 28 2014, 07:40 AM
The picture looking down the drivers side looks like a car that is sagging in the middle. If so, that is really bad!
Remember what Porsche folks say when buying a used Porsche, buy the best one you can find, it will save you money in the long run.
Find a nicer one!
Tom
Posted by: lsintampa May 28 2014, 07:59 AM
I'd not buy this car.
Don't rush to jump in the water. Sooner or later your car will come along.
Posted by: rhodyguy May 28 2014, 08:05 AM
The rust pictured is not "surface" only. Pull the front truck seal and I think you' find BIG problems with the channels and the bubble @ the bottom of the windshield trim is a warning sign. I think 'all in' @ $11k is on the low side. I wonder what's lurking behind late bumper cover.
I wouldn't buy the car. Period.....
Posted by: ben*james May 28 2014, 08:11 AM
Bumper mismatch = bad sign or very poor taste
Battery box sagging means more rust
Extra paint around engine grill indicates careless attempt
Turbo mirrors probably put unwanted holes in door skins
My last teen I sold was much much1,much2......muchn, nicer for 6k. There is a significant chance that you could do much better.
But hey, no better place on earth to buy a project like that and get help.
I liked: early rear bumper, baby Fuchs, .... That's about it.
Posted by: toolguy May 28 2014, 08:19 AM
That is a parts car at best, as you'll easily spend over $20K making it right. . the rust repair will be endless and the paint will be another 3-4K for a cheap job.. . even from the pictures it needs a complete front clip . . I'll bet if you poked the hell hole it would fall through from the looks of the battery tray.
Listen to the logical voices who have no dog in the fight. . even if you
'fixed' the rust you can find, what you can't find will make it impossible to maintain in
the future. .
Posted by: 914_teener May 28 2014, 09:06 AM
Pass......unless you want a project
Posted by: green914 May 28 2014, 09:09 AM
For $4500, you will only be over paying by $4000 in my opinion. Buy a nice car you can drive now for more money. You will be glad you did!
$500... I recently bought two 914s in about the same condition for $1000; they have already been parted out.
Posted by: Mike Bellis May 28 2014, 10:04 AM
Since you're East coast, 914's come at a primium. Buy a west coast car and ship it. They don't salt the roads here. They use sand. Worry less about engine size and more about rust. On a 914, only 20% of the rust is visible. 80% of the rust you will find after you buy it. We can do PPI's for you. Just reach out when you find a good car. Shipping from the West will end up cheaper in the long run.
Posted by: Cuda911 May 28 2014, 02:17 PM
OK, ok.... seems like the general consensus here is a big thumbs down on that car.
I'm stubborn and sometimes foolish, but I am trying to soak in the wisdom of you all.
Crap. Frankly, I'm surprised.... I've seen plenty of cars that were way worse get restored, or at least sell for more than this red one. From what I've read here, as long as the longitudinals and suspension under the hell hole aren't rotted, the rest of the car isn't too bad to deal with.
Dang, back to my 914 hunt, then....
Any of you want to join in and help me spend my money?
Requirement: 73 2.0 or 74 2.0 with appearance group. Any but black, gray, silver. Ideally blue, red, orange, or other bright color.
Within a reasonable drive of San Diego, unless there's one of you guys I could trust to look it over for me.
--------------------------------
Mike
Posted by: Cuda911 May 28 2014, 02:23 PM
$4,000 + $6-7,000 = $10-11,000
Buy an $8-9,000 914, spend $2-3,000 (same $10-11,000 range) and you'll have what you're looking for. You'll end up spending less and getting more by staying away from bottom feeder cars.
I agree. So far, I just can't find any mid-priced ones that meet my criteria (73/74/2.0/colorful).
All help in my quest is greatly appreciated!!!
Posted by: jhadler May 28 2014, 02:34 PM
Crap. Frankly, I'm surprised.... I've seen plenty of cars that were way worse get restored, or at least sell for more than this red one.
That's true, but unless you can work magic with sheet metal and a welder, and have unlimited time on your hands, this "project" car will consume way more money than you think it will to get it right.
Not so. Read again what folks are saying here. That the rust is -visible- from the outside tells us all that there is WAAAY more rust hiding underneath. Just like an iceberg...
Keep looking. You will find a better one, and you will be far happier that you did.
-Josh
Posted by: KELTY360 May 28 2014, 02:47 PM
My Alaska Blue 914 will be for sale shortly.
[attachmentid=450265] [attachmentid=450266][attachmentid=450267][attachmentid=450268]
Might want to follow up on this one that was mentioned in the classifieds (not listed yet)
Towards the end of this thread: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=232485
Posted by: Sfreeman615 May 28 2014, 05:42 PM
I would say that if you are looking for a 914, you are looking for a project! I agree with many others here! Spend a little more money for a much better starting point, I wish I would've!! The price for this car should be in the $1500-$2000 at most!!
Posted by: 914Sixer May 28 2014, 05:49 PM
I have to go with TC, $1500 car at best. Looks like a LOT of hidden gremlins.
Posted by: carr914 May 28 2014, 06:44 PM
My 73 Alaska Blue Appearance Group is For Sale but I can tell already it is out of your Price Range
Posted by: saigon71 May 28 2014, 07:55 PM
Excellent advice from everyone here.
Way to much ca$h for that car. Take your time finding a decent car at a fair price, even if you are looking for a project.
I probably overpaid for my project, but it was less expensive than the deal you are considering and this car appears to have more rust on the top side of the car than mine did.
A PPI is worthwhile even if you have to pay for it. A case of beer may even cover the expense. 
Posted by: Cuda911 May 28 2014, 08:19 PM
OK, you all talked me out of that red one.
Here's a link to a beauty coming up for sale in July at an auction in Lock Haven, Pennsylvania. Any of you attending the auction? 
"Please note, this vehicle will be offered for sale only at the Central Pennsylvania Auto Auction, July 18th and 19th, 2014 in Lock Haven, Pennsylvania. For more information contact us at (800) 248-8026 or visit www.cpaautoauction.com. 1974 Porsche 914 2.0 Targa"
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/porsche/914/1649738.html
If any of you come across a decent 914 for sale, please feel free to let me know. Thanks!
Posted by: brant May 28 2014, 08:40 PM
OK, you all talked me out of that red one.
Here's a link to a beauty coming up for sale in July at an auction in Lock Haven, Pennsylvania. Any of you attending the auction?
"Please note, this vehicle will be offered for sale only at the Central Pennsylvania Auto Auction, July 18th and 19th, 2014 in Lock Haven, Pennsylvania. For more information contact us at (800) 248-8026 or visit www.cpaautoauction.com. 1974 Porsche 914 2.0 Targa"
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/porsche/914/1649738.html
If any of you come across a decent 914 for sale, please feel free to let me know. Thanks!
I already like that it is an honest car with very reputable mechanics like LTD, that have touched it..
FI is a plus in that price range and since your not looking for a race car!
Posted by: Cuda911 May 28 2014, 08:49 PM
I wonder what that car will sell for at auction? I think it will sell for a high price.
Posted by: ben*james May 28 2014, 08:55 PM
http://portland.craigslist.org/nco/cto/4489539307.html
Posted by: KELTY360 May 28 2014, 10:55 PM
I wonder what that car will sell for at auction? I think it will sell for a high price.
Anything less than $12-13,000 is a steal.
Posted by: rhodyguy May 29 2014, 09:31 AM
Check out Biosurfer's ad. Color is in your list. Plenty of money thrown at the car already.
Posted by: CptTripps May 29 2014, 09:32 AM
I'd buy the wing from you. That's the one I've been looking for.
Posted by: Cuda911 May 29 2014, 09:38 AM
Check out Biosurfer's ad. Color is in your list. Plenty of money thrown at the car already.
Yeah, I'd probably buy that car. He seems to indicate that sale is pending. I posted for him to let me know if it through.
Posted by: Cuda911 May 29 2014, 05:33 PM
Guys,
Thanks for talking me out of the red one.
Now, I have my sights on this car... what say you? Thanks!!
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Dave_Darling May 29 2014, 05:54 PM
What were the first three things we said to look for?
-Rust
-Rust
-Rust
I don't see any pics of the problem areas. What pics are there look better than the red one, but I've cut up cars that look better than the red one...
--DD
Posted by: rhodyguy May 29 2014, 06:06 PM
Don't be in a BIG rush to buy. How much is that white car?
Posted by: Cuda911 May 29 2014, 06:44 PM
Posting from phone. Seller asking 10k.
Posted by: jmill May 29 2014, 07:09 PM
Visually looks ok but for 10K it needs to be rust free and straight. I don't see much that really pops. It's 4 lug with rivs and what looks like a 20' paint job. Takes more than a fire extinguisher and removable wheel to make it AX ready. What size engine, specs on it, who built it, suspension & brake upgrades? Did he cut coils in the rear or is it adjustable?
Posted by: ben*james May 29 2014, 07:22 PM
blacked out riveras look cool but that's a short cut approach. If indicative of other 'fixes' on the car, I'd beware. That being said.....my favorite color but add sail trim.
I agree for 10k you should be getting a really nice 914. Rust free and straight. I'd expect original FI with no body modifications and no major rust issues for 10k.
Posted by: Cuda911 May 29 2014, 11:52 PM
OK, here's some poop on the white car:
The seller bought it about 8 months ago. He was going to retire, but then decided he needed to continue working. He owns several vintage Porsches, and is a long time member of PCA. He wanted this car to autocross, but now has no time to autocross (he never did end up autocrossing it at all).
It was built by a guy in Temecula, CA (not far from here). It's the original 1.7 block, but displacement has been stroked to 2.5.
Seller says the car is immaculate. Paint looks perfect. The only flaw anywhere (so he says) is a loose thread on one seat. It was originally yellow, repainted white. Not a frame-off repaint, but high quality nevertheless. He says that when he bought it, he looked at numerous 914's, and he never saw one in as good a condition as this one. He does seem like a straight-up guy, based on my conversation. Apparently no rust at all.
Overall, looks to me like a sweet car.
Now, here's an interesting twist.... I was at a PCA event this evening. I was showing the pix and info of this car to some people, and came to realize that one of the guys is a 914 "guru". He spent many years buying and selling 914s and 914 parts, for a living. He currently owns a local Porsche (and other German cars) parts business. His wife was the president of our PCA region last year. He and his wife have won numerous awards, and are very active in many events, including concourse, which they are both judges for. You couldn't ask for a better person to recommend a 914.
So, he tells me of a 1973 1.7 for sale that is immaculate... a 9 on a 1 to 10 scale, from a concourse judge's perspective. He knows the seller and the car extremely well.
Given the info I have provided, which of those two cars would you guys choose (for argument's sake, let's say they are the same price.
All opinions welcome. Thanks guys!
Posted by: infraredcalvin May 30 2014, 12:35 AM
I'd say a guy heavily involved in PCA, with a Porsche related business to boot has a reputation to maintain, vs a stranger with questionable retirement planning skills who had no idea what he was getting into buying a 914 to race... seems clear to me...
Just because someone else overpaid for a car doesn't make it worth it. 10k in so cal should get you a near perfect 914-4 that you would know there were little to no issues.
Posted by: cgnj May 30 2014, 03:15 AM
OK, here's some poop on the white car:
The seller bought it about 8 months ago. He was going to retire, but then decided he needed to continue working. He owns several vintage Porsches, and is a long time member of PCA. He wanted this car to autocross, but now has no time to autocross (he never did end up autocrossing it at all).
It was built by a guy in Temecula, CA (not far from here). It's the original 1.7 block, but displacement has been stroked to 2.5.
Seller says the car is immaculate. Paint looks perfect. The only flaw anywhere (so he says) is a loose thread on one seat. It was originally yellow, repainted white. Not a frame-off repaint, but high quality nevertheless. He says that when he bought it, he looked at numerous 914's, and he never saw one in as good a condition as this one. He does seem like a straight-up guy, based on my conversation. Apparently no rust at all.
Overall, looks to me like a sweet car.
Now, here's an interesting twist.... I was at a PCA event this evening. I was showing the pix and info of this car to some people, and came to realize that one of the guys is a 914 "guru". He spent many years buying and selling 914s and 914 parts, for a living. He currently owns a local Porsche (and other German cars) parts business. His wife was the president of our PCA region last year. He and his wife have won numerous awards, and are very active in many events, including concourse, which they are both judges for. You couldn't ask for a better person to recommend a 914.
So, he tells me of a 1973 1.7 for sale that is immaculate... a 9 on a 1 to 10 scale, from a concourse judge's perspective. He knows the seller and the car extremely well.
Given the info I have provided, which of those two cars would you guys choose (for argument's sake, let's say they are the same price.
All opinions welcome. Thanks guys!
Temecula, Mark Stevens. Motor Meister takes the elevator down to meet him.
Posted by: Cuda911 May 30 2014, 04:47 AM
Carlos... sorry... I don't get what you are saying.....
Posted by: hot_shoe914 May 30 2014, 05:21 AM
Do a search on here for Motor Meister and you will figure it out. Now, that being said, you want the perfect car that is exactly what you want, low mileage, proven and beautiful, then dig deep in your pocket and buy Betsy from TC Carr. Not going to be cheap, but will be worth every peeny and then some.
This is a 1973 2.0L with appearance group package, 95% original, less than 50K actual miles, brand new paint in original color, new tires, new shocks, new struts and much more. She is a proven award winning rust free car. They don't come much nicer than this one and dozens of people on this board have seen and inspected her. Call TC and get the sweetest deal out there!
Shoe
Posted by: billh1963 May 30 2014, 05:49 AM
A word from the wise....buy the best one you can afford....period!
Posted by: Cuda911 May 30 2014, 05:54 AM
OK, I looked up Motor Meister.... they were in Downey (Los Angeles County) not Temecula (Riverside County).
EDIT: OK, I think you are saying that Mark Stevens in Temecula is way worse even than Motor Meister.
THe white car in my post was built by a father/son team as a project. Then son moved away for college, so father selling car. Or so I was told. I am still obtaining info from seller.
That blue car is a beauty!!!! Any idea roughly what TC Carr wants for it? I didn't see it listed for sale on this site. How do I find out more?
EDIT: Ah, he is user carr914. I sent him an email.
(probably well out of my price range, but yowza... I could sure see myself in that one!!!! Before I knew squat about 914's, I thought I could pick up a reasonable one for maybe 5K. Of course, I didn't realize what the prices on these cars had done over the past few years. I'd still like to stay hopefully somewhere in the 10K +/- range, if that is at all possible. A bit more for the "right" car. )
Posted by: carr914 May 30 2014, 06:30 AM
Do a search on here for Motor Meister and you will figure it out. Now, that being said, you want the perfect car that is exactly what you want, low mileage, proven and beautiful, then dig deep in your pocket and buy Betsy from TC Carr. Not going to be cheap, but will be worth every peeny and then some.
This is a 1973 2.0L with appearance group package, 95% original, less than 50K actual miles, brand new paint in original color, new tires, new shocks, new struts and much more. She is a proven award winning rust free car. They don't come much nicer than this one and dozens of people on this board have seen and inspected her. Call TC and get the sweetest deal out there!
Shoe
OK, I looked up Motor Meister.... they were in Downey (Los Angeles County) not Temecula (Riverside County).
EDIT: That blue car is a beauty!!!! Any idea roughly what TC Carr wants for it? I didn't see it listed for sale on this site. How do I find out more?
EDIT: Ah, he is user carr914. I sent him an email.
(probably well out of my price range, but yowza... I could sure see myself in that one!!!! Before I knew squat about 914's, I thought I could pick up a reasonable one for maybe 5K. Of course, I didn't realize what the prices on these cars had done over the past few years. I'd still like to stay hopefully somewhere in the 10K +/- range, if that is at all possible. A bit more for the "right" car. )
For some reason, I never get eMails through this site. Send me a pm with your eMail Address
T.C.
Posted by: rhodyguy May 30 2014, 07:22 AM
a 2.5 T-4? oh boy, better be done right. mark stephens came to mind when i saw temecula mentioned. i think rich d has some first hand experience with a mark stephens engine.
Posted by: Cuda911 May 30 2014, 11:26 AM
Carr914: PM sent with my email address.
My friend (the one who mentioned the Orange car for sale) said something similar about the 2.5 stroked one.... I guess a lot of add'l stress on the cams. I saw a similar car a month or so ago, and I know that it had upgraded cams... this one... I don't yet have details.
Posted by: Cuda911 May 30 2014, 12:45 PM
Question for you guys that have owned both a stock 1.7 and stock 2.0:
When driving these cars under a variety of conditions, do you notice much of a difference in general? Or would you say is is more subtle.
We frequently do runs up the local mountains. Will I notice a big difference chugging uphill with only 80 HP as opposed to a whopping 95 HP?
Posted by: naro914 May 30 2014, 01:16 PM
A 2.5 liter on a 4 is not a big deal, done all the time. Obviously it needs to be done right, but it's not like it's some sort of 'ready to grenade' stressed out modification. Buddy of mine in NJ raced a 2.7/4 for YEARS with no issues. Our 2.4/4 had no issues street, track, autocross, etc. for 10 years until I missed a shift...so my fault not the engines..
And I would steer clear of the TC fellow...shady Florida guy he is.. 
(seriously, TC is one of the really good guys here, and that car is a BEAUTY - Shoe treated his baby really good!!)
Posted by: greenie May 30 2014, 01:44 PM
Question for you guys that have owned both a stock 1.7 and stock 2.0:
When driving these cars under a variety of conditions, do you notice much of a difference in general? Or would you say is is more subtle.
We frequently do runs up the local mountains. Will I notice a big difference chugging uphill with only 80 HP as opposed to a whopping 95 HP?
Stick with a 2.0L car.
I've regularly dusted all of the locals that run the 1.7 and 1.8 engines
You were given excellent advice on the red car.
My serious opinion is to find the nicest car you can.
Look for solid mechanicals, body and paint, good interior, minimal rust if any and hopefully an owner that knows the car. Pay upfront or pay many $$ more later.
We've all seen 1.7 1.8L cars that can keep up with the cool kids driving the 2.0L cars... not a big difference in my opinion.
Posted by: Larmo63 May 30 2014, 03:21 PM
I went and drove this one. It is a NICE car. Read the description, I'd buy it if I had the dough, salvage title didn't scare me. Bill is a really nice guy too....
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=224193
Posted by: Cuda911 May 30 2014, 03:44 PM
Between here and RennList, you guys are are providing awesome advice.
Super appreciated!
LARMO63: That car in your link looks fantastic. I ran it by the RennList group last week. The consensus was that the asking price of 12.5K is too much for salvage title car. Seems to be self-evident, as the car has been on the market since last November.
I know what you mean, salvage title doesn't scare me either, if I know EXACTLY why it was issued, and what was done to repair it. But, so many won't even consider a salvage title car that I just don't want that headache.
I saw a Lotus Evora recently for sale cheap, and the seller claimed that the only reason for the salvage title was a broken side-view mirror. Ummm.... yeah.... OK... sure I believe that....
Posted by: rhodyguy May 30 2014, 05:03 PM
Over 20 years ago the damage exceeded the value of the 914. It may have been a 3.2k ( or less) car at the time. I see a very small hit for a well repaired car. You need to start looking in person when possible. What were parts cars not that long ago aren't anymore. Interesting repair bill. Couldn't of been whammed all that hard. Plus, the car got some very positive comments in the thread.
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 2 2014, 10:38 PM
Hey guys, my search has been tireless... almost OCD searching of all the places where a 914 may be sold.
Here's my current find. I have limited info other than these pix I got from the seller.... it looks to me like the front and rear bumpers have some minor separation... other than that, looks good. I am told no rust.. but, I need to arrange a personal inspection of the car.
Any items of concern you see? Thanks!
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Mike Bellis Jun 2 2014, 10:58 PM
Looks like a nice car.
Go check for rust!
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 2 2014, 11:10 PM
Seller is out of town for a couple days, but he is a friend of a friend. So, the car comes with a very high pedigree. I will check it out as soon as seller gets back in town later this week.
It's a 1970 1.7, and I really wanted a 1973 2.0. But, this car seems in excellent condition. I was told, a "9" on a 1-10 scale, by a concourse judge.
Do you think I will regret buying a 1.7 (as opposed to a 2.0)? In some ways, I wish I had spent more on my 996, and bought a 997 or a 996 Turbo. And, my Cayman is a base, wish I had a Cayman S. But, alas, have other bills to pay....
P.S. What do you think of that bumper issue? Look at the left side of the photos for front and rear.
Buying Porsches has become an evil sickness....
Posted by: OllieG Jun 3 2014, 03:07 AM
Do you think I will regret buying a 1.7 (as opposed to a 2.0)?
My 2 cents...living here in the UK you're in less of a position to find the 'right' 914 because they are so rare over here. Most 914s here are US imports.
You lucky guys in the US have the luxury of waiting for the right one to come up, so that's what I think you should do.
I've owned a 1.7 and an original 6, I've also driven a few 2.0l 4s. I liked the 1.7 coz I didn't know better at the time but I wouldn't own one now..thinking back it was pretty asthmatic compared to the other ones.
Hold out and get a 73 or 74 2.0l, maybe a 75/6 with back-dated bumpers; that would be my advice...Good luck!
Posted by: lsintampa Jun 3 2014, 06:37 AM
no rust - that's not possible - just saying that they all have rust - it isn't a question of if it has rust or not, the question is how much rust does it have
IMHO, if you want a 2.0 buy a 2.0.... just as this is a "nice" 1.7, there are equally nice 2.0's out there.
I don't mean to offend anyone, but personally I don't like black cars. I owned one black BMW and I'll never own another black car - period. There have been times when I've been in the buyers market that I came across exactly what I was looking for, but took a pass because the car was black.
Point is buy what you want - don't settle... you will have serious regrets when the right one comes on the market.
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 5 2014, 07:55 PM
OK, all, I have information on the orange 914 posted above, and I plan to go up to Pasadena and look at the car this Sunday, so I need responses quick, stat, pronto, ASAP, with all due haste, etc.
I sent the seller an email with a bunch of itemized questions. I got back a reply that answers most, but not all, of my questions. Please remember that his is a good friend of a good friend of mine, so is not likely "hiding" any information.
Here's what he says about the car:
**************************************************
> It is, a 1970 1.7, I have owned it since 2005, I don't have any history other than I bought it from a guy in PDX, who had plans of building a V8 conversion 914, and decided that this one was better left unmolested.
> all the mechanicals work, but the horn wiring needs attention, battery tray is solid, and there are no rust issues save for a couple of non structural spots, ,yes the car was repainted, and there is evidence of an older high quality repair in the front, (probably from the seventies)
> It has been converted to a side shift trans,
> The lower bumper trays aren't damaged, the attachment hardware on those always loosens and they just need minor attention.
> And I would recommend replacing the fan belt as its been there since I replaced it in 05, tires are also older, and there is a fifth 2.0 alloy along with the steel wheeled spare,
> Regarding seals (doors, window, etc.): Mostly 44yr old originals but not crumbly.
The top is good, but the tops on all 914s leak I've owned several over thirty years and not one has ever completely sealed.
> I am asking 11,500
**************************************************
So, given the above, please weigh in. All opinions welcome. I will consider them carefully before I make any final decisions on this car, but I hope to soon be joining the ranks of all the folks that figured out how nifty 914s are long before I did.
Much appreciated!
Posted by: mepstein Jun 5 2014, 08:05 PM
A low rust, well maintained car is more important than engine size. The early cars are lighter so that helps make up for some horsepower difference.
But I think $11.5 is too high. I would be more comfortable $8-8.5K max
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 5 2014, 09:26 PM
For $8K, I wouldn't hesitate even a second. I'm hoping to settle for 10K, which I think is top-dollar considering it has the original seals, no history of rebuild, etc.
(In other words, I might be willing to exceed 10K if it had these items taken care of. The rubber seals are one of my worries, since they are so expensive to replace.
My 914 fund:
Attached image(s)
Posted by: rjames Jun 5 2014, 11:21 PM
Just curious, have you driven a 914 yet? Given your other Porsches you may be underwhelmed at the lack of power.
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 5 2014, 11:44 PM
I've driven a 914, but not much.
This car is going to be a total toy. Just for little fun trips. Something I can keep for a few years, who knows, maybe forever, but can probably sell if I need to for pretty close to what I paid. I worry slightly about the lack of power, but they are pretty torquey, at least up to maybe 30 mph.
Years ago when I was in college and I saw one... thought it was just a fantastic looking car. I was going to buy one in grad school, but a friend talked me out of it... the old "that's not a real Porsche, it's a Volkswagon" thing.
I do a lot of stuff with our region's PCA, and every time I see a 914 show up at an event, I still think it looks great.
So, yes, I am prepared (I think), for the squeaks, bumps, rattles, gutlessness, lack of A/C, etc. After all, how many cars do you get to open up the hood on to fill the gas tank??? How cool is that??
{Worst case scenario: a few months from now, my threads will be titled: "Anyone wanna buy a used 914?"}.
Posted by: carr914 Jun 6 2014, 12:26 AM
That car is not a 9 out of 10 Condition - more like a 6 out of 10
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 6 2014, 12:32 AM
I agree, not a 9/10 as was previously indicated to me. Not sure I'd say as low as 6. But, I really won't know until I see the car in person. It's amazing how much the camera can hide.
I still am considering the white one described above if the orange one doesn't pan out.
Posted by: carr914 Jun 6 2014, 06:24 AM
The reason I said a 6 out of 10;
Faded Paint
1.7
Valance about to fall off
interior pieces dangling
stored outdoors under a cover
If the Seller doesn't care enough to fix the little things, then the more important items were surely neglected
Posted by: lsintampa Jun 6 2014, 06:31 AM
The reason I said a 6 out of 10;
Faded Paint
1.7
Valance about to fall off
interior pieces dangling
stored outdoors under a cover
If the Seller doesn't care enough to fix the little things, then the more important items were surely neglected
I think you're just chomping at the bit and being way to anxious. Cars look way much better in photos than in person.
I hope if you do go to see this car, you take your time and don't let your emotions play a part in your decision.
Find that 2.0 you really want.
Posted by: carr914 Jun 6 2014, 06:58 AM
Exactly, if you want a 2.0, wait til the right one comes along. Don't jump on a 1.7 just because you want a 914.
Buy the Best one you can afford and you will spend less later. My Car may be out of your Price Range, but it is a Great Deal. These cars are Not getting Cheaper!
Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 6 2014, 07:10 AM
I agree with Mark and would value this in the $8-9K range. There are some real nice 2.0's that pop up from time to time. If I were buying another 914, I would hold out for a real nice 73-74 2.0 as original as possible. But then I would also be willing to double my budget accordingly. Quite frankly, TC's car is one heck of a car and would definitely cause me to go see it were I in the market.
Posted by: KELTY360 Jun 6 2014, 07:32 AM
My $.02. I had a new 1.7 in '73 and loved it so much that I always regretted selling it. Got a 2.0 a few years later and was impressed at the way Porsche had made a great car even better. The biggest difference is available torque accelerating out of a corner. I think you'd be wise to hold out for a '73/'74 2.0. Cool your jets a little and let the right car find you.
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 6 2014, 11:20 AM
Thanks for the input again, it is ALL appreciated.
If the car is in really good shape when I see it, I will probably buy it for 9 or 9.5 if he will take that. If it is worse than I am expecting, I will pass. If he sticks to 11.5, I will pass.
Here's a '73 2.0 that just came up for sale in LA. I sent the seller an email last night. If possible, I will look at it too, when I look at the orange one.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/4506199579.html
The info is rather limited, and the photos reek (and I'm sure that 25,000 odo is 125,000).
[And, woe to his English students! His writing skills leave much to be desired.]
Attached image(s)
Posted by: carr914 Jun 6 2014, 11:48 AM
The Right Rear on the $6,000 Car looks out of whack
$6,000 is under priced for a 2.0 - it's either a Steal or a Shitbox
Posted by: Big Len Jun 6 2014, 12:54 PM
[quote name='mepstein' date='Jun 5 2014, 10:05 PM' post='2046777']
"A low rust, well maintained car is more important than engine size. The early cars are lighter so that helps make up for some horsepower difference".
As someone who bought one for the first time last year, let me give you my take as I agree with Mark.
I bought a 1.8 and yes, sometimes I'd love a little extra horsepower coming out of a nice sweeper or more importantly, going up a steep hill. But really, whatever engine size is slow by today's standards, even the 6. In a drag race, a 2.0 will see my taillights against my daily driver. 914s are all about handling. It never stops putting a smile on my face.
When I was younger, I had a Nova with a 283. It was ok, but I wanted more, so I put in a nice 350. Later on, I decided that wasn't enough and went to a big block. If you have a horsepower jones, whatever engine won't satisfy you for too long.
My point is agreeing with others in that buy the best car you can afford. But I would not pass on a 1.7 or 1.8 if in great shape for a 2.0 that wasn't.
Posted by: ripper911 Jun 6 2014, 01:25 PM
You can always find another engine.
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 6 2014, 07:12 PM
"You can always buy another engine"
Yeah, that's what a buddy of mine keeps saying. Of course, he ain't opening up his wallet to pay for that!
"My point is agreeing with others in that buy the best car you can afford. But I would not pass on a 1.7 or 1.8 if in great shape for a 2.0 that wasn't."
I have learned well from you all, that rust, rust, rust is the key factor. Interesting that some say not to be concerned about 1.7 vs 2.0, yet others say to hold out for the 2.0. If you look at the thread I posted with the HP/torque graphs, looks like the 1.7 has greater low RPM torque in 1st than the 2.0. So, should be more fun getting away from the stop lights, at least for the first 100 feet?
"If you have a horsepower jones, whatever engine won't satisfy you for too long."
Yeah, I do have a horsepower jones. My 914 will be for my calm days (whenever those might be, I don't know).
Posted by: Porschef Jun 6 2014, 07:14 PM
Len's advice is very solid. I've seen his car, it's beautiful. While a 1.8 might be the lowest power version, an engine swap is pretty easy if that's what you want.
These cars are very simple mechanically for the most part, but their chassis are not, making extensive rust repair a difficult undertaking. Those who have done it, and done it right, well
Besides, ain't the hunting fun? 
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 6 2014, 08:42 PM
Besides, ain't the hunting fun?
Ah, a friend of mine who's helping with the "hunt" says that too. I could live just fine without the hunt. I'm jealous of all the guys that got to walk onto a lot when these were new and look at the array of colors available, all in mint condition.
Posted by: KELTY360 Jun 6 2014, 09:36 PM
Besides, ain't the hunting fun?
Ah, a friend of mine who's helping with the "hunt" says that too. I could live just fine without the hunt. I'm jealous of all the guys that got to walk onto a lot when these were new and look at the array of colors available, all in mint condition.
I'm one of those guys and it's still a favorite memory. I can see that line of vibrant colors under the lights, like a big jar of jelly beans. The 914 is such a fun car to drive and the fact that it comes in such a variety of great colors just makes it better.
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 6 2014, 10:04 PM
The Right Rear on the $6,000 Car looks out of whack
$6,000 is under priced for a 2.0 - it's either a Steal or a Shitbox
Yeah.... that's what I was thinking...
The photos are so bad... why would anyone try and sell a car with such crappy photos?
I emailed the seller via Craig's List last night... no reply.
So, maybe a scam, maybe a piece of crap car, maybe legit and a guy who doesn't know what these are selling for these days. Well, without a reply from seller, I guess we will never know.
So many guys here are saying I should be able to find a clean '73 2.0 for 10K. I don't know, that seems like a unicorn hunt to me.
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 6 2014, 10:15 PM
I agree with Mark and would value this in the $8-9K range. There are some real nice 2.0's that pop up from time to time. If I were buying another 914, I would hold out for a real nice 73-74 2.0 as original as possible. But then I would also be willing to double my budget But then I would also be willing to double my budget accordingly. Quite frankly, TC's car is one heck of a car and would definitely cause me to go see it were I in the market.
Ha, yeah, I've already doubled my budget. At Day One of my search, I thought I'd find one for for 5k.
I agree, TC's car I would love... but rather too steep for me. (TC, I sent an email regarding your car via the "message" section, but I guess that still didn't get through. Ah well, I'm sure it is way beyond what I want to spend any way.)
Posted by: Mike Bellis Jun 6 2014, 10:44 PM
Any 914 will end up as more than you want to spend...
Posted by: dlkawashima Jun 7 2014, 12:03 AM
I've driven a 914, but not much.
My recommendation would be to start contacting these SoCal guys and go out for test drives. The more you drive, the more you'll know what features matter to you. Seriously, go out and drive some of these cars.
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 7 2014, 01:08 AM
I've driven a 914, but not much.
My recommendation would be to start contacting these SoCal guys and go out for test drives. The more you drive, the more you'll know what features matter to you. Seriously, go out and drive some of these cars.
Yeah, I'd like to drive one a bit more, but I can't exactly say to people "hey, I'm planning on buying a 914.... mind if I drive your car a bit"?
Anyway, I have met many people that have owned 914s, and so far I have never had even one person say that they hated it.
The main features that appeal to me are:
chrome bumpers (a must-have),
bright color (a must have)
Side shift (a must have)
'75 at the very latest, hopefully earlier (a must have)
MINIMAL rust (see, I have learned well) - (a must have)
I really love the appearance group in the '73s... the center console, etc. Mahle wheels would be fantastic.
I know exactly what I want... but finding it all for a reasonable price... not so sure.
My ideal:
Blue or orange or yellow or red or green
1973 2.0, or 1974 with the full appearance group options.
Mahle's
no significant rust
low mileage or recent rebuild
clean interior or very minor repairs needed
original paint in excellent condition, or high quality repaint in original color
PORSCHE sticker down the sides.
For under 15K. Hopefully closer to 10K.
Posted by: carr914 Jun 7 2014, 03:05 AM
I agree with Mark and would value this in the $8-9K range. There are some real nice 2.0's that pop up from time to time. If I were buying another 914, I would hold out for a real nice 73-74 2.0 as original as possible. But then I would also be willing to double my budget But then I would also be willing to double my budget accordingly. Quite frankly, TC's car is one heck of a car and would definitely cause me to go see it were I in the market.
Ha, yeah, I've already doubled my budget. At Day One of my search, I thought I'd find one for for 5k.
I agree, TC's car I would love... but rather too steep for me. (TC, I sent an email regarding your car via the "message" section, but I guess that still didn't get through. Ah well, I'm sure it is way beyond what I want to spend any way.)
I sent you an eMail with Pictures and a Ton of Details on May 31st - I just checked, I just Cut & Pasted your eMail Address it said @yahh.com. I'm assuming that was wrong and I just forwarded the eMail to @yahoo.com
Posted by: dlkawashima Jun 7 2014, 05:17 AM
Yeah, I'd like to drive one a bit more, but I can't exactly say to people "hey, I'm planning on buying a 914.... mind if I drive your car a bit"?
Anyway, I have met many people that have owned 914s, and so far I have never had even one person say that they hated it.
The main features that appeal to me are:
chrome bumpers (a must-have),
bright color (a must have)
Side shift (a must have)
'75 at the very latest, hopefully earlier (a must have)
MINIMAL rust (see, I have learned well) - (a must have)
I really love the appearance group in the '73s... the center console, etc. Mahle wheels would be fantastic.
I know exactly what I want... but finding it all for a reasonable price... not so sure.
My ideal:
Blue or orange or yellow or red or green
1973 2.0, or 1974 with the full appearance group options.
Mahle's
no significant rust
low mileage or recent rebuild
clean interior or very minor repairs needed
original paint in excellent condition, or high quality repaint in original color
PORSCHE sticker down the sides.
For under 15K. Hopefully closer to 10K.
Your ideal is everyone else's ideal too ... that's why '73 - '74 2-liters command top dollar when it comes to the 914-4. I think you're going to have to give up on some of your ideals ... mileage for example ... if you want to stay in budget. Have you contacted the guy in Thousand Oaks with the red '73 2-liter, the one Larmo63 mentioned?
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 7 2014, 10:37 AM
Thanks, TC... received your email.... yah... it was yahoo, not yahh.
The red one in Thousand Oaks has a salvage title I think, or something else wrong with it that's not in the current ad... I remember seeing something about that car in a different ad, but I don't recall exactly what it was . Even with great repairs, I just don't want that black eye on the car.
EDIT: I just spoke to the seller... inf fact, the ad does discuss the salvage title... a fender-bender in '95, when these cars weren't worth much, so the insurance totalled it out.
He says there is a minor 2nd gear synchro issue.
Two questions for you:
1. Will the salvage title always be a big black mark on the car when I want to sell it, even though there are receipts and a description of what happened? Or will many "look past" that? In the 911 community, salvage title almost always means "no way".
2. What's it cost, roughly, to have 2nd gear synchro fixed? Transmission replacement? Or something less?
Thanks!
Posted by: KELTY360 Jun 7 2014, 12:30 PM
If repairs were properly performed a salvage title is only a detriment when you go to sell the car. It certainly does not affect performance or enjoyment. As the current seller is no doubt discovering it takes longer to sell and requires substantial discounting of price. As good, original 914s become more scarce and valuable, they will pull up the cars with drawbacks. The trick with a car like that is negotiating a price that lets you exit without losing your shirt. Because of the title situation it will never be a premium collectible but if your goal is a good looking, good performing driver it could serve you well.
The transmission issue depends on how serious it is and your mechanical abilities. Because of the good Dr. Evil we are blessed with many options to repair trannies. If you can pull it yourself, you could send it to him for a refurb for very reasonable $ - probably less than a thousand total, or, take it to a transmission cilinic when it comes to your area and rebuild it yourself for about $300 + parts. If you can't pull it yourself you can throw a BBQ and some low life 914 guys will invade your house for free food and a chance to get greasy hands. You may also discover that by double clutching you can get around the problem til you get it fixed.
In short, go look at that car...it looks like it fits most of your criteria.
Posted by: theleschyouknow Jun 7 2014, 01:31 PM
great thread!
cuda- it can become a bit of a manic search, huh? I totally understand, other than color (I'm partial to the more "muted" colors) we're looking for the same thing same budget. great advice given here that I'm trying to follow as well- take a breath the car will come along.
Agree the "you should be able to get a NICE 2.0 driver for 10-12k" is a bit of a unicorn but we'll see
best of luck will let you know if I hear of anything
cjl
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 7 2014, 11:28 PM
"great thread!
cuda- it can become a bit of a manic search, huh?"
Hopefully this thread can be of help to many others in the future, which is why I am trying to document things, and paste actual ads into the thread rather than just links (which will have expired by the time future readers go through this thread).
"If repairs were properly performed a salvage title is only a detriment when you go to sell the car. It certainly does not affect performance or enjoyment. As the current seller is no doubt discovering it takes longer to sell and requires substantial discounting of price. As good, original 914s become more scarce and valuable, they will pull up the cars with drawbacks. The trick with a car like that is negotiating a price that lets you exit without losing your shirt. Because of the title situation it will never be a premium collectible but if your goal is a good looking, good performing driver it could serve you well."
Yeah, the car is very attractive, but I don't want a "boat anchor" that I am stuck giving away for a song if I do want to sell eventually. The seller's ad shows his frustration with this, and I agree... totally unfair that DMV has put this black mark on the car for a fender repair, but a piece of rusted out crap car that has been restored (or even unrestored) has no such stigma.
Seller has listed this car since Nov., 2013, so it clearly shows the market aversion to salvage title no matter what. He has good documentation of why the salvage title.. it was given for a relatively minor issue, I think, in the grand scheme of things. He started at 15K, and now is at 11.5 for asking price.
I've been on the selling end of things before, and I really dislike insulting sellers with seriously low-ball offers.
I will be looking at both cars tomorrow. Will report back when I am able.
Also, the car below car was just listed today.. a 1975 1.8, so not my ideal, and much too far away for me to consider, but looks like a very good deal for someone!
Note: Why do so many people fail to identify the engine size in their 914 ads? Sheesh... rather a basic piece of info needed for these cars.
.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 8 2014, 07:07 AM
That '75 looks rough just at a glance. As for the salvage title, I am on the fence. I think I would buy that car given the full documentation of how it came to be salvaged. Sure it presently may result in a slight reduction in value, but as these cars become rarer with age, the full documentation explaining the reason for the salvage title might minimize that price differential. That is a very nice car and has likely had less repair work than most restored 914's. Good luck with the search.
Posted by: KELTY360 Jun 8 2014, 07:19 AM
I've been on the selling end of things before, and I really dislike insulting sellers with seriously low-ball offers.
Something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and in 6 months no one has stepped up to the asking price of what looks to be a very nice car. I don't think you can insult a seller with an offer of what you'd be willing to pay. Like I said before, the trick is negotiating a price that won't leave you holding the bag on the back end.
Posted by: mepstein Jun 8 2014, 07:47 AM
I've been on the selling end of things before, and I really dislike insulting sellers with seriously low-ball offers.
Something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and in 6 months no one has stepped up to the asking price of what looks to be a very nice car. I don't think you can insult a seller with an offer of what you'd be willing to pay. Like I said before, the trick is negotiating a price that won't leave you holding the bag on the back end.
Funny, I don't feel like any offer is insulting, I see it as a starting point. I've offered 800 to a seller asking 3500. Seller said no but we kept it friendly and eventually settled on 900. I came from real estate short sales where offers and selling prices were all over the board. A seller shouldn't be insulted by a low offer instead they should be glad that someone is interested and can start a negotiation. Better to have someone to talk to than all the people who looked but made no offer at all. You don't ask someone to marry without dating first. Even if you offer low, you can keep it friendly and light. But if you see the right one, don't be afraid to go for it.
One last thing- don't send a seller the money without seeing the car first. Take the long drive or buy a ticket. Dont buy a 10k car without you or someone you trust touching the car.
Posted by: bulitt Jun 8 2014, 08:25 AM
On both posts.
This is America, built on the art of the deal. If someone wants a firm price they should state "firm price". But even so, some people lose track of values so their
firm prices are out of wack. No insult, not personal, just a deal. Keep in mind there were 113,000+ of these made.
Posted by: jmill Jun 8 2014, 08:29 AM
Also, the car below car was just listed today.. a 1975 1.8, so not my ideal, and much too far away for me to consider, but looks like a very good deal for someone!
That MN car will have seen a ton of salt. Buyer beware on that one.
Posted by: bembry Jun 8 2014, 08:47 AM
Also, the car below car was just listed today.. a 1975 1.8, so not my ideal, and much too far away for me to consider, but looks like a very good deal for someone!
That MN car will have seen a ton of salt. Buyer beware on that one.
Exactly. Too many good cars in California for good prices. No reason to look in Minnesota.
Posted by: rhodyguy Jun 8 2014, 10:04 AM
There seems to be a lot of concern over the future sale of the car with the salvage title. Are you looking for a short ownership flip or a car to drive and enjoy? As for not recouping your 'investment', few owners do. In most cases that $2.5k bargain ( say in 2005) usually have blown up to a $10k money pit. Or more. Then you get the flares, conv engine and everything that goes with it, new suspension, wheels and a trip to al reed's, tires, PAINT/bodywork, new rubber seals/carpet/interior items, maybe a windshield because you have new paint, in some cases an attorney, and the pit becomes a caldera. I still think the salvage title car is worth a drive.
K
Posted by: Steve Jun 8 2014, 10:16 AM
I would recommend driving a bunch of cars and figure out what you want and then look for a restored or converted car. Unless you have lots of time on your hands and money, these cars can become a huge money pit. I paid $4500.00 for a stock 75 2.0 back in 86. I then put an easy $25k into it with a 2.7 six and then a 3.2 six and then sold it for $16k back in 2005. That owner put another $35k into it and then I bought it back for $21k. I have since put another $10k into it and its been apart for two years. When I get it back together it will still need a paint job. When done it will be a steel flared 3.2 with a 916 trans. If I could do it over again I would of bought a 3.6 conversion from the classifieds for a lot less money.
Posted by: mepstein Jun 8 2014, 10:41 AM
On both posts.This is America, built on the art of the deal. If someone wants a firm price they should state "firm price". But even so, some people lose track of values so their
firm prices are out of wack. No insult, not personal, just a deal. Keep in mind there were 113,000+ of these made.
firm is firm until the next guy offers less and you loose the purchase. My philosiphy is it never hurts to ask. People's wants or needs change and sometimes it happens very quickly.
Posted by: jmill Jun 8 2014, 10:48 AM
The pit becomes a caldera.
Lol, I don't think a truer statement has ever been made about these little cars. They're also extremely addictive. I thought about selling my
I..Must..Throw..More..Money..At..It.....
Welcome to the insanity.
Posted by: hot_shoe914 Jun 9 2014, 06:25 AM
http://www.donhindsford.com/used/Pors/1974-Pors-914-464d1e720a0a00640aac5d9761b6e767.htm
Posted by: Dave_Darling Jun 9 2014, 10:41 AM
That one's in Indiana. Where they salt the roads, and have winters that range from bad to Minnesota-level awful.
It's probably pretty rusty underneath...
Plus it's a long long way from Sandy Eggo.
--DD
Posted by: hot_shoe914 Jun 9 2014, 07:01 PM
That one's in Indiana. Where they salt the roads, and have winters that range from bad to Minnesota-level awful.
It's probably pretty rusty underneath...
Plus it's a long long way from Sandy Eggo.
--DD
It is in his price range, looks nice and there should be people close to do a PPI. Might be a gem.
Posted by: Java2570 Jun 9 2014, 10:03 PM
That one's in Indiana. Where they salt the roads, and have winters that range from bad to Minnesota-level awful.
It's probably pretty rusty underneath...
Plus it's a long long way from Sandy Eggo.
--DD
It is in his price range, looks nice and there should be people close to do a PPI. Might be a gem.
Don Hinds Ford is actually less than a mile from my house.....I can't believe that they actually have a 914 for sale! I'll have to cruise by there and see what it looks like.
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 9 2014, 10:12 PM
Thanks for the info regarding the MN one... I'm obtaining more info now.
Here's the update on the "hunt". Some interesting progress here.
I looked at two 914s this weekend, up in Los Angeles.
A couple pix of both posted below (red 1973 2.0 and orange 1970 1.8).
Here's the short version summary:
1. Car #1: '73 2.0, very nice car. Very clean. About as rust-free as you can imagine. A lot of grease or oil on the transmission housing... I couldn't figure out where it came from, or if it was from an old leak, or what (no drips on the ground). Seriously! But salvage title, and in my opinion owner wanted much more than I want to pay for that issue. The salvage was issued for something minor, but I think it really diminished the value anyway. If he had been willing to negotiate a bit more on price, I would have bought it.
2. Car #2: '70 1.7: Not quite as clean as I had hoped. I really want later than 1970, but if it had been a bit more pristine, I would have bought it. Also, seller was asking too much for the car, considering it's condition, in my opinion.
Both sellers were very nice folks, and I wish them well with the sales. They were both very honest people. The cars just weren't quite what I want for the money.
OK, I am looking another 914 now, this one sort of fell into my lap:
1975 1.8, Silver:
This is REALLY odd: This morning, a friend sent me a Craig's list link for a local yard sale. Buried in the yard sale ad is mention of a 1975 Porsche 914!!!! There was no phone number or anything else, but the address is about a mile from my house. So, I drove over this afternoon, and there's the car parked out front!
I called the phone number on a "4 sale" sign posted on the car. A short while later, the seller's wife shows up, driving a beautiful Karmann Ghia. They have several other classic VWs parked at the house.
Here's the poop on the car: 1975 1.8 One-owner car they recently bought. They lent me the records, a 3-inch binder. It has EVERY record from Day 1, including the bill of sale from July 15, 1975. Every oil change was done on time, every 3,000 miles. The car was serviced regularly at a very reputable Porsche shop here in San Diego. Then, in 1988, the car was hit. The owners, one aged 69 and one aged 74, were injured. They got a $60,000 pay-out from insurance, and the car was totaled. It was then completely rebuilt. EVERY receipt is there for all of the work. Of course, now it has a salvage title.
I drove the car.. it runs great. Interior is very clean. Very little rust anywhere.
So: here's the thing: It is everything I said I DIDN't want: Post 1974, no appearance group, it's silver, it's a 1.8, it has a salvage title. But, I still MIGHT buy it, depending on if seller will negotiate on price. It's very clean, drives wonderfully, has documentation beyond what anyone could want, and is within walking distance from here. He's asking $6,200. I'm willing to pay $3,500, or maybe $4,000 tops. Then, I will have a very nice toy for a very low cost.
Pix of all three cars discussed in this post:
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Mike Bellis Jun 9 2014, 10:16 PM
Am I missing something here? Cuda lives in SoCal, the 914 Mecca and he's looking for cars in other states? 
There is a shit load on 914's in the greater los Angeles area. If you look in another state you will pay another $1000 for shipping.
Posted by: KELTY360 Jun 9 2014, 10:22 PM
If that's a '75 then the bumpers have already been backdated, probably a result of the accident. That's a positive. Do you know where the car was hit? Is there any evidence of the damage?
Could be a good find...the color would grow on you.
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 9 2014, 11:14 PM
Re:
You'd be surprised at how hard it is to find a clean 914 even out here, so I am looking everywhere. I find it odd how few 914s are posted for sale anywhere, let alone So CA.
I checked around... about $600 to ship the car here from MN.
Re:
Ah, the car is a 1974!!! (still, isn't that a 1973 front bumper?) The car was purchased new on July 12, 1974. Mesa Porsche, La Mesa, CA. 1968 Dodge Charger taken as trade-in. Total price including tax: $6,400.69.
(The radio was a $150 option they added but it has FM!!!
).Looks like front was hit. There are legal documents for their settlement that detail injuries, but nothing that describes the accident.
The 1988 Allstate adjustor estimated required repairs at $3,974, and therefore declared it a total loss.
Here's a summary of the main parts listed in the estimate:
front bumper (and all associated parts like spoiler, lights, supports, etc.)
Front hood
L/& R fenders: repaired/aligned.
Car condition on the 1988 insurance appraisal listed as "good". Letter from Dieter's Porsche in San Diego stating that the car was regularly serviced there and in above average condition at the time of the accident. Receipts support this.
The original owners of the car bought it back from the insurance company.
As far as I can tell from the mountain of paperwork, the owner then stored the car until 1997, when the engine was pulled, sent to Mark Stephens High Performance of Tehachapi, CA. completely torn down, and rebuilt. New clutch at that time too.
There are receipts for work totalling $4,655.12, dated 12/9/1997, which correspond to the work that was needed per the 1988 insurance estimate. Very odd. All work was done by European Auto Body, a Porsche body repair specialist.
Posted by: dlkawashima Jun 9 2014, 11:32 PM
1. Car #1: '73 2.0, very nice car. Very clean. About as rust-free as you can imagine.
As far as driving experience is concerned, how did the '73 compare to the '75, or did you not drive the '73?
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 10 2014, 12:05 AM
1. Car #1: '73 2.0, very nice car. Very clean. About as rust-free as you can imagine.
As far as driving experience is concerned, how did the '73 compare to the '75, or did you not drive the '73?
I drove both cars. I certainly drove them VERY conservatively, since they are not my cars (I tend to be a bit harder on my own
). I took the '73 onto the freeway for a few miles. It had no problem getting up to speed. I found it very pleasant. The 1970 I only drove on surface streets. So, probably not enough driving to really tell anything significant between the two cars. I think on the 1970, it felt like once I hit 3rd, I was pretty well hitting the limits of any semi-linear acceleration.
The 74 1.8 I drove today was very nice. I stayed on surface streets.
So, in the last two days I have driven a 1970 1.7, a 1973 2.0, and a 1974 1.8. I think it would take a lot more driving under differing conditions (hills, freeway, etc.) to really be able to discern the difference. On neighborhood surface streets, all three were similar. All three were fun.
Posted by: euro911 Jun 10 2014, 12:37 AM
As long as they move under their own power, they are fun
Posted by: hot_shoe914 Jun 10 2014, 06:03 AM
That one's in Indiana. Where they salt the roads, and have winters that range from bad to Minnesota-level awful.
It's probably pretty rusty underneath...
Plus it's a long long way from Sandy Eggo.
--DD
It is in his price range, looks nice and there should be people close to do a PPI. Might be a gem.
Don Hinds Ford is actually less than a mile from my house.....I can't believe that they actually have a 914 for sale! I'll have to cruise by there and see what it looks like.
Let me know what you find out please.
Posted by: arkitect Jun 10 2014, 06:17 AM
The silver 1.8 with all the paperwork sounds like a good find but it doesn't have the 2.0 u were looking for. What is the plan, change the motor out? And what was stated earlier about a salvage title.
Dave
Posted by: Java2570 Jun 10 2014, 06:40 AM
That one's in Indiana. Where they salt the roads, and have winters that range from bad to Minnesota-level awful.
It's probably pretty rusty underneath...
Plus it's a long long way from Sandy Eggo.
--DD
It is in his price range, looks nice and there should be people close to do a PPI. Might be a gem.
Don Hinds Ford is actually less than a mile from my house.....I can't believe that they actually have a 914 for sale! I'll have to cruise by there and see what it looks like.
Let me know what you find out please.
Hot Shoe- I just emailed the salesman at the Ford dealer and plan to try to take a look at it either Thurs or Friday. Curious to see what induction it's got and how it looks underneath. Salt is a major concern here, of course. Jon
Posted by: Java2570 Jun 10 2014, 06:49 AM
Being here in Indiana, I ended up purchasing a 914 from Pasadena and it was a salvage title as well. I got a good deal on it a couple of years back but I'd be more
cautious about buying another salvage car. I knew going into it what the salvage was from but the series of hoops I had to navigate to get it titled and plated was a major nuisance. Be aware of what the state requires before purchasing a salvage car.
I didn't spend much time reading the laws prior to buying and later found out that I had to show documents and such on the salvage, then have the car inspected across town, etc. It was a pain to do this all within the timeframe I had and the police location only had one date set aside for the fall. It was a PITA! After all was done, I was issued a "rebuilt" title and not a regular one. CA may or may not be easier....
Posted by: lsintampa Jun 10 2014, 07:01 AM
IDK,
personally, I'd pass on a salvage title car.
Why do that when there is plenty of clean title inventory to choose from?
If you're second guessing the decision, consider the situation when you go to sell it (if you get to that point).
Just my .02 - not necessarily correct.
Posted by: KELTY360 Jun 10 2014, 07:02 AM
On that silver car, be sure to check inside the front trunk to see if you can see signs of the hit. That looks like a pre-1973 ft. bumper. Did the rear bumper have the tits?
Does it still have it's fuel injection?
Posted by: Chris H. Jun 10 2014, 07:17 AM
Yeah that '75...take a look here:
And here:
Bumper is bent and it looks like there is some damage in the front trunk on that side. Either it was hit pretty hard or the repair wasn't done well. Normally I don't say much about stuff like that but if you're thinking about shipping it to California...
Posted by: Porschef Jun 10 2014, 08:00 AM
Of the three, I'd go with silver.
1. It's a two owner car with full documentation. The repairs were done 26 years ago. If there were issues I think they'd have shown up by now. 
2. It's a pre 75. No need to backdate bub's. (I'm in the middle of that one)
3. It's local. You can go back and have another look or three. Obviously they're looking for 6k, but you can negotiate.
4. It's not orange 
, but silver's a great color. Right after Raveena....
5. It's on the road, ready to go.
6. It's a 1.8, so what. An engine is easy to change.
Did I miss anything?
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 10 2014, 09:11 AM
OK, I've been pondering the silver car all night... I think it worked its way through some bizarre dreams (probably thanks to the Ambien).
As you guys know, I consider a "colorful" car a "must have". Since the collector value of the silver one was killed in 1987 due to the accident, I now feel free to do with it and bastardize it however I want. So, a One Day Paint N Body paint job, and it is the color I want. Next time it needs a rebuild, I swap in a 2.0.
I called my insurance company.... dirt cheap to insure the car... $200/year or less if I give it a stated value of 10K.
I spent a few hours researching regs and issues pertaining to Salvage Title. It varies greatly from state to state. In some states, as Java mentioned, salvage can be a HUGE PITA to register. Some states won't even allow a salvage car to ever operate again, it can only be sold to licensed dismantlers. Clearly, one needs to research the salvage title laws of their state before buying any salvage title car. Some states, a stolen car that is recovered is given salvage status, even if the car is fine. The general consensus is that a salvage title car should be discounted at least 30% to 50% from a similar nonsalvage car. Assuming you want to deal with the salvage issue at all.
I'm going to inspect the silver car in more detail... I had to cut short my inspection yesterday due to actually having to work and earn some $$ .
After reading through the massive documentation, I know the history of the silver car extremely well. So, if seller will give me a good price, I think I will buy it. He's asking too much right now.
It has the original fuel injection system, the sucky L-Jet. I say "sucky" only because that's what I keep reading... no personal experience with it. The wheels on it are definitely sucky. Hey, what will some Mahle's run? I looked on Ebay.... there's a guy selling Mahle knock-offs for $500 a set!
Ohhh.... I could have some fun with this car!!! Remember, I said I wanted a 914 as a toy. This car, I could play with, and never feel guilty about what I did to it!!
I've gotta do some serious driving today for work, so I won't be able to follow up until later this evening.
Posted by: Java2570 Jun 10 2014, 09:17 AM
That one's in Indiana. Where they salt the roads, and have winters that range from bad to Minnesota-level awful.
It's probably pretty rusty underneath...
Plus it's a long long way from Sandy Eggo.
--DD
It is in his price range, looks nice and there should be people close to do a PPI. Might be a gem.
Don Hinds Ford is actually less than a mile from my house.....I can't believe that they actually have a 914 for sale! I'll have to cruise by there and see what it looks like.
Let me know what you find out please.
Shoe - I was driving past the dealer this AM and decided to stop and get a quick look.
It's not bad at all....paint is good, not great. It wasn't unlocked and no one came out to talk to me so I just had a peak under the car. Longs look solid and I didn't notice any rust there or in the floor boards. I did notice bolts had been used on the floor and I'm not sure if it was for the seat rails or a floor repair? SSI heat exchangers and Triad muffler, tuna can oil sump, front and rear sway bars, looks like Koni shocks on
rear (I think). Momo steering wheel, stock 3 gauge console, maybe aftermarket seats
and shifter....seat belts were red. Obviously, I couldn't get into the trunks or engine compartment but it did have a 914club badge on the lid. I didn't see any rust bubbles or bad spots in the body panels but the driver's door didn't fit great. At first, glance,
looks pretty solid. I'll hopefully take it for a test drive when the weather gives us something but rain....
Posted by: AlBreakit Jun 10 2014, 09:38 AM
Found this in the classifieds,, not mine.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=237305&st=0&#entry2048429
Posted by: Niche Jun 10 2014, 10:26 AM
Yo, Mike, finally found your thread on the 914 search. Just pick one out and buy it!
Hi guys, I've been assisting Mike and I have to tell you, I'm surprised how expensive these little cars have gotten. The best driving one was the silver one. The orange was the best sounding and sportiest feeling and the red the best conditioned one. Kinda makes me want to get a 914 again.
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 10 2014, 05:32 PM
Hey Niche,
Thanks for all your help in my 914 hunt!!!!
I have an offer in on the silver 1974 1.8. I met with the seller's wife again today. The husband is at work. I'm going back this evening at 7:15 pm with an envelope of cash.
So, I may be joining the 914 Owner's Club (is there any such thing) tonight!
The only rust I could find on the car is inside the rear trunk. The seller says it had no rust when they bought it a couple years ago, and it does look superficial. Now, I need to learn what to do to stop it in its tracks. Assuming the car is mine, I will start a new thread. I will have a million questions for you guys.
A few pix:
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 10 2014, 08:15 PM
Look what's in my driveway!!!!
.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Big Len Jun 10 2014, 08:25 PM
I like it.....Best of luck !!
Posted by: Niche Jun 10 2014, 08:38 PM
Congrats, buddy!! Can't wait till you are too old to drive so I can have it! ;-)
Posted by: poorsche914 Jun 10 2014, 09:27 PM
Looking forward to seeing you transform it to your own vision 
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 10 2014, 09:43 PM
Thanks guys!!!
This was quite an adventure, and quite a learning experience. Many of you provided great input!
Niche... you were an invaluable resource and friend throughout it all.... Thanks! You are welcome to drive the 914 any time you want.
OK, all, I will start a new thread, so that the progress with this car is documented. I'll start it out with some info. from this thread, so that the new one makes sense to readers from the future (aliens maybe?).
See here: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=237472&hl=Grote+alas
Posted by: arkitect Jun 12 2014, 06:12 AM
Congrats on your purchase. I like all the documentation the teener came with.
Looks like u have plenty of toys.
Dave
Posted by: Cuda911 Jun 12 2014, 06:44 PM
^^^ How does that phrase go? Something like "He who dies with the most toys wins"?
Posted by: euro911 Jun 12 2014, 11:30 PM
Yep ... and I know how that game works 
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)