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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Mega Squirt advice, tips, discussion...

Posted by: balthazar Jan 19 2005, 08:42 PM

Hi all,

I have pulled the drivetrain out in order to rebuild the transaxle. That job will be done this weekend! YAY! I am stoked! I will go from having 2nd,3rd and 5th gears (no reverse) to a newly built transaxle! I can't wait! IPB Image

But that's not what I wanted to talk about. I had 40idf carbs installed on my 1.7 previously. This was a marginal set-up at best. I have now removed them and I am planning on installing FI. I will be going with the MS computer, mallory dist. and a 30kv coil along with stock T-body, injecters, plenum, and intake runners. If possible, I will use the stock D-Jet sensors as well.

I have a degree in electronics engineering, and have been working in the field for 10yrs now, so I know my way around a soldering iron. That being said, I plan to build the kit myself. I have read through several sites describing the theory behind the MS set-up and even found a site describing the installation on a sand rail. All of this info was very informative, and has given me the confidence to go ahead with the project asap.

Most of the info out there is pretty general when it comes to actual applications. I have yet to find a description of a T4/914 specific install. I know a few of you out there have already done this thing.

My question: Are there any T4/914 specific tips, tricks, methods and etc...that anyone could bestow upon my humbleness? I would be MOST appreciative!!!!

Posted by: Mueller Jan 19 2005, 08:54 PM

I had an 1.8 running the 1st version of MS a few years ago...I used the stock CHT and injectors (I used the L-jet resistor pack), GM air temp sensor and an aftermarket TPS....ran good once I finally put it on a dyno to tune it.

I used no O2 sensor

Last year I attepted to run the same MS on my 2.0, had nothing but problems, but I think they had all been owner induced IPB Image

Dave Hunt and another 914 owner here have put thousands of miles on their MS installed 914's...Dave took his install one step further and is running the ignition from the MS as well with the help of the ford edis system (crankfire)

Hopefully they'll chime in....Dave has some great info on his website detailing the install.

I have about 0 schooling in electronics and even I was somewhat successful in building one and getting it to work IPB Image ....most errors with the MS are owner related (diodes installed backwards, not reading the MS build and install instructions.....)

Posted by: Brett W Jan 20 2005, 12:55 AM

I want to here this as well. I will be getting two megasquirt II units and am looking for the spark unit. Need the one for a V8 though. So everyone chime in.

Posted by: lapuwali Jan 20 2005, 02:40 AM

There isn't really a dedicated "spark unit". The MS and MS II hardware is fairly generic, and what makes the difference is the software, which can be changed long after the unit is built. There are two major ways to have MS handle spark right now: MSnSpark, and MSnEDIS. The former uses a MSD or similar box to trigger spark from a distributor signal. You lock the distributor's advance mechanism and the advance curve is held in the MS software, programmable by the MS software using RPM and manifold pressure. This is easy to hook up, and you can use even a crappy 009 and still have a good advance curve. The latter uses Ford's EDIS system, which is distributorless, and uses a small box and a coil pack off several different early 90s Fords (Escorts are most popular). These parts can be had from junkyards pretty easily and cheaply. This also uses a crank-trigger wheel and sensor, which is something of a pain to fit on the Type IV. Dave Hunt has one on his new setup, and you can find photos of his setup by searching on this site. Perhaps this is the "spark unit" you mean?

For the MS or MS II should work on a V8 just fine, by just setting it to run on a V8. The EDIS spark setup from a Ford V8 can be used (different Ford box, marked EDIS8 instead of EDIS4 like the Escort box, and a different coil pack). Some have also run two EDIS4s in parallel on a V8. There's a writeup of these on the Megasquirt sites. Indeed, MS was originally developed on an SBC.

The most confusing part about MS right now is there are three hardware versions and three or four major software versions in development right now. Using the straight MS unit with the "extra" code is probably the easiest thing to do right now, as the "extra" code does fuel only, fuel and spark with a dizzy, or fuel and spark with EDIS. This is becoming the mainstream MS setup now, it appears. MS II is an add on to a regular MS, and will allow new development, but I don't believe the first cut will have many new features over the "old" MS. It will allow development to continue, and there will be some desirable new features added over the next couple of years. You should be able to get most engines running well with MS, so waiting for MS II isn't really necessary.

Posted by: DNHunt Jan 20 2005, 08:18 AM

I've run MS for quite a while now and am working on EDIS ignition. Check out the link at under my signature. This all applies to fuel only.

Dave

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 20 2005, 08:55 AM

Also check out sdsefi.com

It's not megasquirt but it has a ton of info that you might find helpful.

Posted by: balthazar Jan 20 2005, 10:00 PM

Cool! Thanks guys, this helps alot!

Dave: On your site, In the list of components, you wrote: "Modified Throttle Body reamed to 50 mm diameter". Is the reaming out to 50mm the only mod you did on the Throttle body?

Anyone else got some input? I figured there was more interest in this topic out there. Come on, the travel agent thread got like 5 times as many replies!

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Posted by: Mueller Jan 21 2005, 01:00 AM

QUOTE
Anyone else got some input?

Only 4 914s that I know of have run the Megasquirt...

Dave, Fiid (on a stock 1.7), a guy in AZ with a 2.0 (drawing a blank on his name right now) and myself

It not hard, just good planning and being careful with the wiring harness...oh yea, I've had bad luck with trying to trigger it with points....the electrical trigger method seems to work better since it's a "cleaner" signal

Posted by: balthazar Jan 21 2005, 02:22 AM

Wow! So when I finally get this thing back together, I will be one of only five people to MS a 914! Interesting...
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Posted by: Dr Evil Jan 21 2005, 02:28 AM

I am currently attempting to attach a Mega Jolt Light Jr to my 2.7 /6. It is a stand alone DIS that uses the Ford EDIS system. Really easy to assemble and inexpensive.

http://picasso.org/mjlj/?q=node/view/11

Brent Picasso is the designer and he answers any email questions personally. Stand up guy.

Posted by: crash914 Jan 21 2005, 06:24 AM

Hello!!!!

I have had mine for over a year....my engine has been apart almost that long though.... IPB Image

I set up the box on a bone stock motor, using only the injector outputs and tach signal. all relays were run through the ECU. no cold start, no warm up enrichment..

It ran good, easy set up, not perfect tune, but enough to drive it.

I then build my 2.7 motor with the twin weber throttle bodies...again, I was worried that my settings would be way off and I would not be able to fire it up...

again, no problem. This time, everything went through the MS relay box. I am now using warm up enrichment, but no cold start...I don't need it. Even though the temperature is now -3degrees, the motor will fire right up..

so I guess that what I am saying is that it is not hard to do...the hardest part is soldering the little buggers.

pic of my throttle bodies....

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Posted by: balthazar Jan 28 2005, 02:48 PM

Those throttle bodies look nice! You are using injector outs, tach signal and WU enrichment only? Are you using a TPS?

I found this on evilbay, looks pretty neat. It's a little pricey tho...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2440743545&category=42604

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Posted by: crash914 Jan 28 2005, 04:19 PM

I am using the TPS.

Now I am using the CHT for warm up enrichment. I did not really need it though.

Posted by: greg.treadway Jan 28 2005, 05:15 PM

What ignition system are you using with the Megasquirt? If you remove the distributor, what are you putting in the hole?

Posted by: Mueller Jan 28 2005, 05:19 PM

QUOTE (greg.treadway @ Jan 28 2005, 04:15 PM)
What ignition system are you using with the Megasquirt? If you remove the distributor, what are you putting in the hole?

the basic Megasquirt is fuel only, use the stock distributor or your choice of aftermarket ignition...add a few resistors to the megasquirt and you can control the stock or aftermarket distributor or use the megasquirt to control a crank fire ignition.....

for the "hole", I designed a plate to cover that bolts on using the 13mm nut that used to hold the distributor.....other people have used a plug similar to what the 911 guys use

Posted by: balthazar Jan 29 2005, 02:07 PM

I will be using a Mallory distributor. MS will just control the fuel injectors...

Posted by: matt_o_70 Jan 29 2005, 02:57 PM

I too am interested in all info on this..
at the moment I have been waiting for a reason to start my project. I've only had the car for a year and it runs fine (carbs) So before I take it apart I'd feel a bit better if there was a group of people here with similar setups to share tips and code etc.
Speak up if your considering the same.. I was a professional mechanic for 7 years before getting into the computer field. I believe I am up to the task
I think I have a basically stock 2.0L

Posted by: balthazar Feb 1 2005, 08:31 PM

OK here is a pic of the stock FI stuff I will use. There will be a wide band O2 sensor installed later.

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Posted by: Mueller Feb 1 2005, 08:34 PM

no need for the MPS...sell it

Posted by: crash914 Feb 2 2005, 04:33 AM

Where does that red tail light thingy go??

do I need one?

Posted by: balthazar Feb 2 2005, 11:29 AM

You don't need it...One side is the decelerator light. It hooks into the decel circuit, you know smog stuff. Other side is turn signal, don't need that either, just use arm out window...

Posted by: balthazar Feb 4 2005, 07:37 PM

Here is the stuff all assembled. I just found out I cannot use the stock TPS with the MS. What TPS have you guys used for your conversions?

anyone need an MPS, its for sale?

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Posted by: balthazar Feb 20 2005, 07:03 PM

Man am I or what? I went and cut the air plenum so the input points to the right side. The turbo will come out on the right side of the engine compartment, thus the modification, Straight intake pipe and all that. Now it's time to weld that sucker back together.

There are some minor engineering problems. The plenum will need to be mounted. The holder for the throttle cable needs to be re-positioned. The tin on the right side needs to be "gently" dented so the intake pipe will clear.

Pix of the mess I got myself in:

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Posted by: balthazar Feb 20 2005, 07:03 PM

Another:

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Posted by: balthazar Aug 11 2005, 05:39 PM

Finally an update on the project!

Here is a pic of the air plenum back from the welders!

Also included is a pic of the MS stuff together except for a few things. I am looking to source them as fast as time and money will allow!

Still needed:

*O2 sensor
*sebring exaust
*TPS that will work with the MS (Buick grand national?)
*fuel pump
*fuel rails
*fuel pressure regulator
If anyone has an exaust they are willing to part with, please let me know!
The car will use EDIS for spark control. Any ideas/tips on how to best do the EDIS4 with a 36-1 wheel on a T4 would be most appreciated!

Corby

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Posted by: balthazar Aug 11 2005, 05:42 PM

Modified plenum...

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Posted by: 3d914 Aug 11 2005, 05:53 PM

Corby,

I'm the other guy in Phoenix with a 2.0L MS. You can view the specs on all my hardware. I have most of it stored up on the http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=3485

I have been very pleased with the results.

Enjoy.

Posted by: balthazar Sep 8 2005, 02:48 AM

Hello all,

I finally got some time to work on the engine today! Here are some more pictures. Shown is the back of the fan from my 1.7l and the 36-1 "wheel" used for the EDIS ignition. The fan has a nice space behind which will allow me to mount the
wheel. Thinking about drilling the fan and the wheel, then mounting
them together with some bolts. It will get sorted out at work over the
next coupla days. The graveyard shift is nice after all! No Boss
around to get mad at me for working on 914 stuff in the shop!!!

CDF

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Posted by: balthazar Sep 8 2005, 02:48 AM

Another...

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Posted by: agrump Sep 8 2005, 06:28 AM

Here are my tips

1) I found that the stock MAP suffered from heat soak on my car. I drilled out the old bung, welded in a larger one and used a GM sensor.

2) I'm getting the tach signal off the coil. I using a Mallory Unilite and found that the 330 ohm resister in the tach circuit got to hot. I replaced it with another resister, I think it was 680 ohm (I'm sure it was in the 600 range). Now it just gets warm instead of blazing hot and the tach signal is very clean.

3) I'm using the stock CHT sensor for the coolant sensor. It warms up to quickly and Megasquirt ignores any value above 160 for warmup enrichment. I measured the resistance at freezing, room temp and boiling. I subtracted 80 degrees from all three values and easythermed it. Now it reads 130 degrees when the sensor is really 210. This allows me to add enrichment at the hotter temps. It's not perfect, it still needs some more enrichment before it starts reading 160 degrees but it is better then using the actual temp values. My car is in the shop because I was rearended but when I get it back I think I will try subtracting 100 degrees from all values.

I'm still messing around with the VE and AFR's. At cruise I run 13.7 but I think this is too lean as my head temps are about 25 degrees hotter then they were with carbs (350 vs 325 at cruise on a hot day). My carbs were running at around 13.1 but didn't return the mpg I expected.

Posted by: DNHunt Sep 8 2005, 06:34 AM

Corby

I don't know if you saw this but, this is how I mounted my EDIS wheel. I would worry about run out with the wheel mounted on the fan. My setup took a little machining but thats about it. It's been up and running for about 1500 miles.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=37744

Dave

Posted by: balthazar Sep 8 2005, 02:02 PM

HA HAA!!

If only I had read your post before I started...

I went ahead and put it together last night. Here are some pics. I got close to your design, as far as bolt holes in the wheel, anyway.

agrump, I was planning on using the stock CHT, so your advice will be useful...thanks

Next on the list: New brakes. Rotors arrived today(purty!), next to buy are the rear calipers.

CDF

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Posted by: balthazar Sep 9 2005, 03:12 PM

Check out the cars' new gear from my new favorite vendor, JWEST Engineering!!!!

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Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 9 2005, 03:52 PM

AL engine mounts? that ought to be loud

guess i need some

Posted by: balthazar Sep 12 2005, 01:27 PM

I thought they looked cool. The car I have came with NO engine mounts. I had been using only bolts/nuts. We'll see how they work out. JWEST also sells rubber ones...

CDF

Posted by: 3d914 Sep 12 2005, 08:53 PM

CDF,

I'm not familiar with those trunk hinges - what's the word on them?

Posted by: balthazar Sep 12 2005, 09:40 PM

Basically, you grind off the old mount. You then drill 4 holes into the metal there. One plate goes outside and the plate with the hinge goes on the inside of the engine compartment. You then use the bolts and the nuts through the holes to sandwich them to the side of the trunk. You can adjust the height of the hinge to make the rear trunk lid line up flush. The origianal spring is used. Since my left side mount busted off, I thought this would be a good fix...Go here to check them out:

www.jwesteng.com

Posted by: balthazar Sep 21 2005, 08:43 PM

I built the MS relay board today. The ignition was also installed today. The MS computer system can now be installed. Here are some pix of the action...

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Posted by: balthazar Sep 21 2005, 08:44 PM

Here is a pic of the final location of the sensor for the ignition...

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Posted by: balthazar Sep 21 2005, 08:48 PM

New rotors look good! Cant wait till I get new calipers installed!

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Posted by: balthazar Oct 9 2005, 08:21 PM

I ran into some clearance issues with my previous set-up for EDIS. I had bolted the wheel to the fan. That was clearing everything except the bolts I had used to mount the sensor. I was all ready to grind a little, when I remembered Dave's post, soooooo, back to the drawing board. I started making a wheel like on Daves post. I'll have it done soon. Meanwhile, the brakes are lookin good!!!

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Posted by: gklinger Oct 16 2005, 07:07 PM

Wooohooo! Finished my Megasquirt install today, and I'll be damned if it didn't start within the first 3 minutes of cranking. Loads of tuning to do, it's running way rich, but it already sounds better than it did when it last ran with carbs. I can tell this is gonna be good...

The car's been on jackstands (and still is, for that matter) since last December, due to a moderate case of DWD. New brakes, new wheel bearings, rebuilt CV joints, rust abatement in the cabin floors, Rennshifter, new seat, steering wheel, oil cooler, etc, etc, but I'm on the home stretch now...

Posted by: qa1142 Oct 16 2005, 08:06 PM

congratulations

Posted by: balthazar Oct 16 2005, 11:48 PM

Cool! Congrats, There is no better feeling than getting a big project done!!!!

I can't wait till I get mine done. It's been torn apart for about 6 months now.

I plan to have the MS done and the car driving by spring!

Posted by: balthazar Dec 6 2006, 11:42 AM

LOL! i thought I would have it done by spring! HAHAHAHAHA!

Oh well, too much of this this and this which leads to this oh and this,

I also purchased a Euro Mercedes 500sl with lots of issues (no start, no brakes, transmission noise and etc...). I devoted all of my spare time to getting this puppy on the road, and I am glad to say that I am mostly finished and can now spend some time on the Porsche!!!!!!!!!

Finally some progress! I don't have any pix, but I will tonight. I was able to start the engine yesterday! The throttle linkage is all jacked up, so I can't really rev the car. I have to go back to the drawing board on that.

I am running a mallory distributor with vaccuum advance and a mallory coil. The computer is in the center console and the relay board is mounted on the back firewall. I installed some aftermarket fuel rails. The car uses a standard Bosche fuel pump. I'll update in a few hours...gotta go.

CDF

QUOTE(balthazar @ Oct 16 2005, 10:48 PM)

Posted by: balthazar Dec 6 2006, 09:03 PM

Here are some pix of my new toy...

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Posted by: balthazar Dec 6 2006, 09:20 PM

Now for the 914 content...

Here is a pic of the linkage which is causing me so much aggrevation. I cant get the arm to push the throttle open enough. It's all torn apart now. I am trying to reposition the mount so there is more leverage.

The second is of the interior (duh)! I will get the whole lot recovered in leather one day...Note the Rennshifter!!!!!! WOOHOO!!

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Posted by: balthazar Dec 6 2006, 09:22 PM

...

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