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Posted by: euro911 Jul 15 2014, 10:12 PM

I recently posted on a thread about 1964 911s on the Pelican site. A few days ago, a guy PM'd me from the Bird, asking about my '64 911. Technically it would be a M-Y 1965 if sold in the US at that time, but is considered a 1964 (ROW), as it is one of the unique 232 'first year cars' that were made and sold (in 1964). It is also currently registered as a 1964 with the CA DMV.

The guy has been a established member on Pelican since 2006, and is local in the Los Angeles area. I kind of know who he is, although we'e never met or conversed previously. There are pix in my 'Garage' on the Bird, so he's seen the car, although we all know that pix don't tell all ...


His PM starts off with "What a great 64 911... What are your plans with it? Are you going to restore it? Would you consider an offer to sell it? I look forward to hearing from you."

I told him that I do have plans to restore it, but if I were to think about selling it, an offer would have to be in excess of $150K.

He responds with "Thank you for getting back to me. I am still interested in your 64. Is is a numbers matching engine? Does the engine still turn over?"

I replied and provided him with a lot of info about the car, it's originality (matching engine and transaxle, etc.), current condition (roller with drive train removed), and all the repairs that the car needs to be a completely restored specimen.

I didn't hold back any negative info regarding rust repairs (front suspension pan, and other sections of the structure/body), and informed him that I possess a full set of floor pans, suspension pan, inner and outer rocker repair panels, etc. Over the past several years, I've also collected a lot of the rubber parts needed.

He responded again with "Great response. I look forward to talking with you. I am very excited to hear that it is original numbers matching. That is important to me. You can reach me anytime at ###.###.####. I look forward to hearing from you and hope we can do a deal."

My wife thinks I should think seriously about it (well, duh) ...

I haven't priced all the repair work yet, but the metal work, paint and the upholstery would all be done by 'professional' shops ... I can do the mechanical work (drive train), and have shot from the hip that $50K~$75K would be my total investment into the project (dollar-wise), not including my time.

Restored examples have recently sold in the $250K~$300K range on the world-wide market, and appear to continue upward as time marches on.


So I do have a dilemma on my hands. Should I continue on my restoration path, or should I consider selling the project if we can reach an agreement for a cash deal at the price I have in mind

Anybody think I'm nuts if I sell it now ... or want to talk me out of it?

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jul 15 2014, 10:24 PM

If you can get $150k, sell it and buy 10 nice 914's...

Or sell it, give your wife half the money and buy seven 914's...

Posted by: Sfreeman615 Jul 15 2014, 10:26 PM

If he is a serious verified cash buyer at $150,000, take the money and run! Seems the choices are no headache for a ton of cash or a ton of headaches for a little more cash...

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Jul 15 2014, 10:27 PM

Having sold a 67 911s in 1991 for $9800 and thinking it was a boat load of money I always have a hard time letting anything go!

That said, I sold a 914-6 not to long ago because I knew I would never do the $50-$70K restoration that the buyer is doing! I am happy to have been a part of the history of the car that will be a show piece in another country.

I know how much I am willing to spend and decided that if I find someone who is going to take it to the top then that is enough satisfaction for me!

Now I drive a converted 75-6 with a 3.0L and I can dump a bunch of money into it for me not because it is a concours car!



Attached image(s)

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jul 15 2014, 10:27 PM

Restore and KEEP.

Posted by: swooshdave Jul 15 2014, 10:30 PM

I would be asking myself what i would do with a $250k car?

Posted by: Cuda911 Jul 15 2014, 10:33 PM

Posted by: colingreene Jul 15 2014, 10:48 PM

I feel like i know the guy who made the offer, Then again, i could be wrong....

Posted by: PanelBilly Jul 15 2014, 11:04 PM

If you don't need the $, then keep it and start the restoration.

Posted by: X911IC Jul 15 2014, 11:15 PM

Just one man's opinion, but if it were mine and I got my asking price, I would sell it and buy another unique Pcar such as an 89 speedster or another specialty car. Hell, I think I might even buy the 50th anniversary car and just enjoy driving it. Only keep it if you have the money and time to restore it properly, only to have some Axxhole open his door and ding it the first time you take it out. Life is too short to have a car of that value just sitting in the garage and not enjoy driving it. We only have so many days on this earth and once they are gone, you can't get them back. Just my 2 cents. BTW, $150k gives you enough money to buy a really nice 356 or another car and have someone else restore it.

Posted by: john77 Jul 15 2014, 11:38 PM

I guess it depends what your thinking is. Do you think you'd ever regret not selling it right now for $150K?

The only scenarios I can see that would result in that are if the resto puts you under water, or the early 911 bubble bursts.

Sounds like you have the parts/skills to ensure the first doesn't happen, and while the bubble may burst of all the early 911 models your car will still be up there with the rare/desirable ones.

Oh, or scenario number 3, alien invasion. But think of the fun you'll have escaping from them in a 64 911

Posted by: bmendel Jul 15 2014, 11:47 PM

Have you checked in on the early 911s board? $150k is practically giving that car away if its a 232 car. Post your question over than and see what it's really worth, bet it starts with a 2 at least.

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jul 16 2014, 12:52 AM

Get a good evaluation of the car from more than one qualified source to find out what it is really worth. Check possible interested buyers in Europe. Sell to the highest bidder. Then take the money and run. You aint' gettin' any younger. Good luck Mark.

Posted by: Hawk Jul 16 2014, 04:00 AM

Just dangle that bait in the waters at early911sregistry.org and see what the Europeans would offer with their currency advantage. $150K is pennies for a true 901 car.

Posted by: Porschef Jul 16 2014, 04:27 AM

I gotta agree with the last four posters, especially the last two regarding price. If you're ready to sell, that's good advice.

From my perspective, time is the number one commodity. You cant replace it. Consider how much of it you'd need to complete the car, versus what it would be worth. Is a 911 so valuable from a driving/owning experience that it can't be substituted? (You already know the answer to that).

The photos show me a very restorable vehicle. I'd fish for the best solid cash deal, take the dough, take a vacation, spend a little on the wife , have a nice chunk put away, and clear up a little garage space.

That's only if you're ready to sell...

Posted by: mepstein Jul 16 2014, 05:00 AM

A lot of people want to be part of the 232 club. Who says $150k is the limit. I would do more research before I let go at that price. Personally, I would sell in current condition rather than take the chance at a higher price after putting out 70-100k. But you need to get this car in front of the right people before you make any decisions about price. Congrats on your dilemma.


The current offer might have a buyer lined up to pay $250. Who knows.

Posted by: gandalf_025 Jul 16 2014, 05:18 AM

If it is truly a 901 car, it is in Rare Company.

Here is a thread on the Early S forum about 1.
Check it out.

http://www.early911sregistry.org/forums/showthread.php?94951-Once-in-a-Lifetime-Find!-300061-a-certified-901-sees-the-light-of-day-%28again%29!&highlight=1964

Reality Check...
If it is one of the Ultra Rare.. Post it on the S Forum and see what kind of offers it generates.
Unless you have EXTREMELY Deep Pockets, let someone else fund the restoration. A car like that deserves a World Class Shop working on it..

What would you do with a car worth that much ?
Besides Worry about something happening to it..

Take the Big Payday and move it on... Research heavily first....
Just my 2 cents.

Posted by: dudzy's914 Jul 16 2014, 05:39 AM

I agree that the car deserves world class shop attention, but if you can do the drive tarain and get it somewhat running I think it may be worth a few more pennies.
But I think you should keep it for a while and preserve it, take extraordinaire care of it and keep it in the family for the next 50 years until Porsche has their 100th aneversary. The market would be at its highest then.

Posted by: billh1963 Jul 16 2014, 05:45 AM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Jul 16 2014, 07:00 AM)

Posted by: billh1963 Jul 16 2014, 05:47 AM

QUOTE(dudzy's914 @ Jul 16 2014, 07:39 AM)

Posted by: bulitt Jul 16 2014, 06:11 AM

If he's jumping at the 150, he knows it's worth much more.
If you decide to sell you need to really "offer" it up.
Also, Sometimes owning an expensive car is a PITA.
If you restore it and its worth 250+ where are you going to drive it? Cars and coffee?
You will be afraid to leave it out of your sight. And your Insurance Premiums will be way up there.

Sometimes a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jul 16 2014, 07:02 AM

My bet is he plans to flip it for a profit.

Posted by: gereed75 Jul 16 2014, 07:20 AM

I am no expert but I agree with several of the ideas suggested here - Shop the car, do it now, take the cash, this bubble will burst.

Part of the appeal to the high end collector is doing the restore. They'll do it and gladly pay the bucks for the pleasure. I think fewer just pay the big bucks for a restored car.

Shop the car, do it now, take the cash, this bubble will burst.

Posted by: Chris H. Jul 16 2014, 07:48 AM

I was wondering when this would happen. You have a real gem there. Gotta figure some VERY important people walked around that car and personally made sure it went together well.

The question is...how attached are you to it? It's one of the first 232 of the longest running, most recognizable sports car made. It's gonna be worth plenty in the future. You don't have to do anything with it.

I agree with Mark H., the guy probably has a customer in mind to flip it to. It's worth more. Bulitt is right, if you're ready to sell, "offer" it and see what happens when a few people get wind of it. You're in the drivers seat on this one and you can only sell it once.

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 16 2014, 08:24 AM

sell the car for the right price mark. do you have the funds (cash only) to make the car right without going into debt? sell, sell, sell…pay of the mortgage, get as far from consumer debt as you possibly can. probably not a very popular opinion. it's just a car...

Posted by: KELTY360 Jul 16 2014, 09:16 AM

So let's say this little flirtation gets you moving on the car and you spend a few years and lots of $$ restoring the car. Now you're all done.....what are you going to do with it, buy an enclosed trailer and schlep it around to shows? You'll have organizers beating down your door to attend their show. Sell it? It will be harder to part with when it's done than it is now. I'm betting you're not going to spend much time driving that $250k jewel to Cars and Coffee; or canyon carving with the 914 guys.

You're at that junction in life you've been waiting for. You'll always be part of the chain of title on an historic vehicle and you'll have stories to tell regardless of whether you still own it. You get to choose who gets the car and, to a certain degree, what happens to it. You're in the driver's seat...enjoy the ride!

Posted by: JmuRiz Jul 16 2014, 09:33 AM

I would entertain offers and sell to the highest bidder. That's a lot of money for an old 911

You'll be too scared to drive a 250-300k car once restored, let someone with deep pockets worry about that.

Posted by: 396 Jul 16 2014, 10:23 AM

As some have suggested, we all are not getting any younger. If it were me, I would sell and move on. As it is, you've got way too many " projects".

Posted by: peteyd Jul 16 2014, 10:23 AM

Don't sell the car for $150k. 911 values are still rising and they are still undervalued. You have one person interested in it and you haven't even advertised it as for sale.

If you really want the money, then advertise it for stupid money, or wait another 5 years and you will no doubt get more than $150k.

911's are our biggest market right now. People are paying big bucks to restore these cars (the SWB) and then can still sell them for a profit.

Also, these cars are so unique in all there differences from the 66 and up MY. There are many sheet metal pieces that are different from the 66 MY like the front shock towers, front latch panel, and the outer rockers. These are the few that I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more that I have not seen either.

If these panels need to be replaced on this car, you need to make sure you are getting proper panels.

Good luck

Posted by: scotty b Jul 16 2014, 10:33 AM

FWIW I agree this market is a huge bubble right now. That said, I also think given the current state the estimates of the car being 250-300,000 when done are low. In the 2 years I have been working on a customers 73 S, I have watched it go from 180-250,000. I have personally seen 4 73 S's sell in the last 2 years for 230-250,000. Yeah, they're the best of the longhoods, but nowhere near as historically significant as a 232. you've got one hell of a lottery ticket there

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Jul 16 2014, 12:08 PM

Wow, very interesting dilemma.

Does a high-dollar, high,-value restoration have to be out-of-pocket???
Seems like the established value of the car, as-is, should be enough to secure a bank loan of $100k that you could then use to make it a restored, numbers matching, $300k car.

Has anybody ever done this? Received a loan w the un-restored car as collateral, then restored the car, enjoyed it for a while while making loan payments, then sold it for profit???

Just curious

If it were me, I'd spend a few months "putting it together" with your drivetrain skills, then sell it as a running, driving example that would benefit from concourse level restoration. Wrench, enjoy, then make some $$$. Make every day count, you only live once

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 16 2014, 01:55 PM

check with YOUR bank and see how well they respond to such a proposal. i seriously doubt it unless you'll be willing to put up a HOUSE or REAL PROPERTY with enough equity to cover a home equity loan or personal line of credit. sorry, but faulty thinking to me. car bubbles, like housing and ones of soap all burst eventually. mark has had interest in the car via the INTERNET.

Posted by: euro911 Jul 16 2014, 02:03 PM

I bought the car 37 years ago for ... get this, $2700. My friend Randy Montoya at Automeister (not motormeister), coached me on the purchase. Remember, the internet wasn't around then (at least not for the public at large) and there wasn't a lot of info available regarding the '232', however, Randy knew it was an early car and told me beforehand that I should restore it.

After I purchased it and drove it home, down the twisty Pasadena freeway to Redondo Beach, it spent a little time up on jack stands in my garage. I rebuilt the carbs, adjusted the valves, fluid change and a tune-up (about $50. in parts at the time), as a tune-up at a Porsche dealership was right about the cost of a VW motor rebuild - $300)

I drove it on and off for a couple years, but one day, a shifting fork let go and it wouldn't shift out of 2nd anymore. I pulled the drive train and Randy rebuilt the transaxle. Since the engine was running pretty strong, but leaked oil from the cooler and return tubes, Randy recommended that I dismantle the motor, reseal it and have the top end done while it was all out of the car. I dismantled to a short block, tagged the P&Cs, heads, rockers and camshafts and placed them in crates. This is still the status of the drive train.


A few rocky romances (I was a young, handsome, debonaire guitarist in a couple of bands at the time) and a couple of job changes caused the project to come to a halt. The car and crates moved to several storage locations over the years (all indoors I'm happy to say). Luckily, I also had a '67 VW bus (that I now regret selling for a mere $2500.), so moving my belongings wasn't as bad as it sounds, but I've always had the intention to complete the restoration.

I would love to drag the '64 out of my enclosed trailer and drive it onto the grass at Monterrey, who wouldn't? ... and I wake up in the mornings sometimes with that "when the fuch am I gonna find the time to get this all done, the right way?"


Time is the real issue, as some of you have mentioned. I really don't know where the last 30 years went, but here I am today, 60 and retired ... and I do have the means to fund the project without living on canned beans ... I'm involved in many other activities that cumulatively eat up a lot of my 'free' time.

I already have a network set up to perform the restoration tasks - Dave Kent helped me with the restoration metal panels before he succumbed to cancer, George's guys at EMW would do the machine work, Steve Houge would handle the metal repairs and Fast Eddie, the interior work. Haven't decided on a chrome shop or paint yet. Adrian Gang and Randy are also friends who I can turn to for mechanical advice and help when I run into trouble ... as well as one of our own, Richard (Type 4 Unleashed).


Dianne and I have been discussing this over the past few days, and of course, she thinks I should sell it (wemen) ... and fund my '66 912 and '67 911 projects - cars that I can drive without worrying about idiot drivers every mile on the road. Of course, the value of those are increasing too


Don't worry guys, I won't 'give it away' if I do decide to let her go. I plan to broadcast my 'dilemma' to the 232 Registry email list for additional sage advice - who knows ...
Maybe Jerry Seinfeld wants to own a second one. ... Alois Ruf already owns three of them

I appreciate the suggestions and will seriously consider all the options that are put forth. This isn't going to be easy though ... she is like part of my family after almost 40 years

Posted by: swooshdave Jul 16 2014, 02:18 PM

In that case hand the car to someone you trust and have them finish the car. You can spend your time with the other projects. When the car is done you can take it to a show or two and then decide on if to sell it.

Did the 356 bubble and burst or are the still climbing? Some cars just won't come back down. This is probably one of those.

Posted by: Chris H. Jul 16 2014, 02:37 PM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Jul 16 2014, 03:03 PM)

Dianne and I have been discussing this over the past few days, and of course, she thinks I should sell it (wemen) ... and fund my '66 912 and '67 911 projects - cars that I can drive without worrying about idiot drivers every mile on the road. Of course, the value of those are increasing too


Don't worry guys, I won't 'give it away' if I do decide to let her go. I plan to broadcast my 'dilemma' to the 232 Registry email list for additional sage advice - who knows ...
Maybe Jerry Seinfeld wants to own a second one. ... Alois Ruf already owns three of them

I appreciate the suggestions and will seriously consider all the options that are put forth. This isn't going to be easy though ... she is like part of my family after almost 40 years

Posted by: scotty b Jul 16 2014, 05:06 PM

QUOTE(swooshdave @ Jul 16 2014, 12:18 PM)

Posted by: mepstein Jul 16 2014, 05:32 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Jul 16 2014, 04:37 PM)

QUOTE(euro911 @ Jul 16 2014, 03:03 PM)

Dianne and I have been discussing this over the past few days, and of course, she thinks I should sell it (wemen) ... and fund my '66 912 and '67 911 projects - cars that I can drive without worrying about idiot drivers every mile on the road. Of course, the value of those are increasing too


Don't worry guys, I won't 'give it away' if I do decide to let her go. I plan to broadcast my 'dilemma' to the 232 Registry email list for additional sage advice - who knows ...
Maybe Jerry Seinfeld wants to own a second one. ... Alois Ruf already owns three of them

I appreciate the suggestions and will seriously consider all the options that are put forth. This isn't going to be easy though ... she is like part of my family after almost 40 years

Restoring the other cars with the '64 money is not a bad idea...was gonna ask about that but noticed you removed some of the details from your signature so I wasn't sure how much you wanted to broadcast... I do remember chatting over PM about your '64 though and recalled how long you've had it and how much you like it. The cool thing is you really can't LOSE money restoring any of the 911/912s. When does that happen ?

Posted by: computers4kids Jul 16 2014, 08:01 PM

Sell...I could never enjoy driving a car worth that much--would always be worried. Enjoy life and take your wife out to dinner (not Taco Bell) and have fun with your other projects that you could take for a drive!

Posted by: euro911 Jul 16 2014, 09:05 PM

Yeah, Mark, I'll probably have to take her to Spain for tacos, Italy for Lasagna, Germany for strudel, Holland for cheese and somewhere in the Orient for sushi ... and the UK for under-cooked eggs

I can imagine how you feel when parking your blue car. As it is, we even try to park the old Toyota trucks far out in the parking lot so we don't get door dings, but it almost always happens - some turd pulls up next to us and you can barely slide a bushiness card between us

Dianne could probably tell you some stories about my reactions when I see the damage they've inflicted


Holy S#IT ... you should see some of the responses the 232 guys are sending me.
About a 50/50 split on selling/restoring there too, as well as 3 very interested parties so far (notable guys that I know)


"As you probably know, out of the 232, only 60 know in existence world-wide ..." - (which I knew) ... and out of the 60, only 30 are #s matching - (I didn't know)

"Some restored ones going for 600K (Euros)!" - (I didn't know)

"Running projects have been selling for $400K." - (I didn't know)




"Mark,

I can tell you that these cars have appreciated faster than just about any other in the last 10 years. Mine was a matching numbers 901 that when I bought it ran but needed totally gone through and had to have all new front and rear fenders pans and rockers. I cant tell you what I sold it for due to an agreement I have but I will tell you that I heard that it cost over 200,000 euros to restore it and it is or was being offered for 500,000 dollars. I also sold a 65 factory sunroof car matching numbers 15 years ago for $2500. Still kicking myself!"



"Mark,

I say, in simple terms; Keep it and fix it for the following reasons ;
#1, Your purchase cost in 1977 (37 years ago) is close to $ 0000.00 in 2014 dollars.
#2, You own it now. How much time, effort, drama and resources would it take to locate another and then fix it ?
#3, You have the resources and network to restore it, in place.
#4, You have the passion and love the cars."



"Mark,

Lol
YOU my friend know how to whip up a bunch of grown men into a frenzy!

Once the dust settles and you believe you have REAL offers I would love a chance to buy your car."



I'm waiting on Jerry Seinfeld's reply


This is turning into an interesting little journey ...

Hey, anybody got Jay Leno's phone # handy ??? ...

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 16 2014, 09:49 PM

you better put that car in secure storage. like a VAULT!!

have you thought about insurance? how exactly would your homeowners see it if there was a major catastrophe?

Posted by: X911IC Jul 16 2014, 10:04 PM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Jul 16 2014, 08:05 PM)

Yeah, Mark, I'll probably have to take her to Spain for tacos, Italy for Lasagna, Germany for strudel, Holland for cheese and somewhere in the Orient for sushi ... and the UK for under-cooked eggs

I can imagine how you feel when parking your blue car. As it is, we even try to park the old Toyota trucks far out in the parking lot so we don't get door dings, but it almost always happens - some turd pulls up next to us and you can barely slide a bushiness card between us

Dianne could probably tell you some stories about my reactions when I see the damage they've inflicted


Holy S#IT ... you should see some of the responses the 232 guys are sending me.
About a 50/50 split on selling/restoring there too, as well as 3 very interested parties so far (notable guys that I know)


"As you probably know, out of the 232, only 60 know in existence world-wide ..." - (which I knew) ... and out of the 60, only 30 are #s matching - (I didn't know)

"Some restored ones going for 600K (Euros)!" - (I didn't know)

"Running projects have been selling for $400K." - (I didn't know)




"Mark,

I can tell you that these cars have appreciated faster than just about any other in the last 10 years. Mine was a matching numbers 901 that when I bought it ran but needed totally gone through and had to have all new front and rear fenders pans and rockers. I cant tell you what I sold it for due to an agreement I have but I will tell you that I heard that it cost over 200,000 euros to restore it and it is or was being offered for 500,000 dollars. I also sold a 65 factory sunroof car matching numbers 15 years ago for $2500. Still kicking myself!"



"Mark,

I say, in simple terms; Keep it and fix it for the following reasons ;
#1, Your purchase cost in 1977 (37 years ago) is close to $ 0000.00 in 2014 dollars.
#2, You own it now. How much time, effort, drama and resources would it take to locate another and then fix it ?
#3, You have the resources and network to restore it, in place.
#4, You have the passion and love the cars."



"Mark,

Lol
YOU my friend know how to whip up a bunch of grown men into a frenzy!

Once the dust settles and you believe you have REAL offers I would love a chance to buy your car."



I'm waiting on Jerry Seinfeld's reply


This is turning into an interesting little journey ...

Hey, anybody got Jay Leno's phone # handy ??? ...

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 16 2014, 10:37 PM

in all fairness, i had no idea about the rarity of the car. wow. `

Posted by: euro911 Jul 16 2014, 11:26 PM

QUOTE(X911IC @ Jul 16 2014, 09:04 PM)

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jul 17 2014, 12:34 AM

Mark,
restore and keep. The only 911 Bubble is if you don't prep the bodywork before painting !
PM sent.
Marty

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Jul 17 2014, 01:03 AM

I'd sure listen to Marty's advice...something tells me it's to be heeded.

That said,[i] were I in your shoes, at your stage in life and with the other Porsches you mention, I'd move the 232 onto the next owner unless it would give YOU untold pleasure to do the kind of things with it you mention re: events. Otherwise, I'd rather sink some of that money into other projects—especially if you've got 1-2 SWB cars that provide the same aesthetic and more utility. And...a 914 (you must be alright )

Of course, one car enthusiast's definition of "utility" is very different to another's. I have no interest in the concours deal, but I have great respect for those who do.

My two cents, and probably worth what it cost you. Cool car, cool story. Would be neat if it stays on this side of the Atlantic, but there are no guarantees, are there?

Whatever you decide to do, and no matter what the market does, you've already won.

pete

Posted by: bulitt Jul 17 2014, 03:36 AM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Jul 17 2014, 01:26 AM)

QUOTE(X911IC @ Jul 16 2014, 09:04 PM)

Mark, My friend's brother restores all of Jerry Seinfeld's cars. Send me a PM with your number and I will have him pass it on the Jerry. I can also get word to Magnus Walker through a mutual friend if interested. Sorry have no contact with Jay Leno. Neil

Thanks, Neil. Sam Cabiglio handles Jerry's stable and is on the 232 distribution, as is Magnus, so they should have received the email

I need to get in touch with Jay for other reasons ... I don't think Elliot likes my jokes anymore



I spent about 35 years in the high-end security electronics industry, Kev ... I can see my cars right now even though they're 5 miles away

Posted by: euro911 Jul 17 2014, 03:48 AM

Can I still cruise with you guys if I buy a Beck Spyder with some of the proceeds? I've always wanted one of these too

It's not a real Porsche



Note to self: Stay away from the Hwy 41/Hwy 46 junction

Posted by: Chris H. Jul 17 2014, 07:47 AM

There's a rolling chassis 550 on e-bay...only $14,500. You could put WHATEVER YOU WANT in that if you sell the '64.

Yeah that car...what a piece of history. The 911 was a new car being released back then so just imagine Ferry, Butzi, etc, scrutinizing the first cars carefully, checking, re-checking with their clip boards and lab coats. And to have matching numbers....wow. It's extremely rare. Glad you have it. I bet the right buyer would pay pretty much whatever you want within reason. But again...if you have the cash and decide you want to do the resto go for it. These are the kinds of dilemmas I would like to have!

Posted by: 914_teener Jul 17 2014, 08:58 AM

QUOTE(billh1963 @ Jul 16 2014, 04:47 AM)

QUOTE(dudzy's914 @ Jul 16 2014, 07:39 AM)

.....keep it in the family for the next 50 years until Porsche has their 100th aneversary. The market would be at its highest then.

I don't think it will. 50 years from now the early 911's will be as appealing to the people around then as a Model T is to most of us now. Cool to look at but so removed from our modern world you won't have any interest owning one.

Posted by: orthobiz Jul 17 2014, 09:08 AM

Regarding the fellow interested in your car: if his use of the English language were any less perfect I'd say he sounds like someone who is fishing or it's a scam. I do not know him on the other boards and he is probably the finest upstanding guy in the universe. But he just sounds so formal and willing it just makes me suspicious. I do not mean to impugn his character if I'm way off base.

But then again, I'm originally from NY...we're always thinking people are trying to "get over."

Good luck.

Paul

Posted by: billh1963 Jul 17 2014, 09:27 AM

QUOTE(Maltese Falcon @ Jul 17 2014, 02:34 AM)

Posted by: euro911 Jul 17 2014, 03:45 PM

It's hard to read the future, especially in these days of economic turmoil, but even 912s and 914s (in vey good condition) appear to be increasing in value.

The market value for first year 901s/911s still appear to climbing to nutty numbers from the responses I'm receiving from most of the '232' guys ... and 'stupid money' at that

I wonder if first year '53 Corvettes are still going for big buck these days?

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 18 2014, 10:53 AM

watching "what's my car worth" and a 21 window kombi selling for well over $!00k (insert eye popping smiley) had me all . apparently there are un-popped bubbles. i wonder if you will have to sign some sort of non-disclosure agreement when the buyer for the 911 surfaces?

k

Posted by: naro914 Jul 18 2014, 12:05 PM

I can connect you with Ingram's if you want...

I know you've gotten tons of advice, from every angle, and the last thing you need is more....but...I would recommend selling it, and here's why:

You said you don't have time to work on it, to get it done RIGHT. You have access to the resources, but are you willing to spend the time and money to watch it get done? Also, say you can get $200k now (more on that in a sec), if you put $100k into restoration, will you get MORE than $300k for it? You'll need to because if you can profit $200k now...why wait to make the same amount? I recently want through that dilema with a car (albeit, on a MUCH smaller scale).

If the guy is eager to talk to you after throwing out a "in excess of $150K" comment, it's worth a lot more. There are guys in Germany that pay crazy money for rare Porsche's....I've sold to a guy that works with some of them. Paid top dollar for a perfect 914 I had.

There are 30 of your car IN THE WORLD...how many are currently changing hands?

will values go up down the road? probably, but unless YOU plan to do the restoration, it would be good for the car, and the collector community, to get that car to someone that will do it now.

Take the money, invest it, buy other cars, etc. Parlay the metal, rubber and vinyl in your garage into bigger things...

Good Luck with your decision!!

My $0.02.

Posted by: Travis Neff Jul 18 2014, 12:23 PM

If I was in your shoes I would spend a bit more time to find out if the 150K offer is reasonable, and if it was - sell, payoff the mortgage and get ahead elsewhere (even buying a beck!).

As other commented you can spend 100K on a resto, maybe the value will go up (maybe down), and after putting that much cash into it really doesn't seem like you will get any more money for it (maybe 25K or so more?) and that's a big gamble on an unknown return.

Or if it is really important to you, keep it stashed away..

Posted by: naro914 Jul 18 2014, 12:36 PM

Another thing to consider...now that you've 'let the cat out of the bag' so to speak, you will now and forever be hounded by inquistors wondering what you are doing with it, are you selling it, offering unsolicited advice, etc...

Posted by: bmendel Jul 18 2014, 01:35 PM

You guys need to reset your idea of value here, vin #300250, outside the more valuable first 232 range, sold restored for over 400k a few months ago, and will be at auction again in Monterey in August, they are estimating $450-550k

Euro911's car is probably worth 300k or more as is, the guy trying to buy it was looking to quickly double his money...

Posted by: Travis Neff Jul 18 2014, 01:40 PM

Wow! Its amazing the 911s are leaving the 356's in the dust. And which is why I think the amazing prices right now are temporary.

Posted by: naro914 Jul 18 2014, 01:45 PM

QUOTE(bmendel @ Jul 18 2014, 03:35 PM)

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 18 2014, 02:54 PM

mark is getting richer in every other post #. RON! QUICK!! drive over and stop marks head from spinning.

Posted by: Steve Jul 18 2014, 03:09 PM

With all this press, you should bump up the insurance...

Posted by: Travis Neff Jul 18 2014, 03:38 PM

bumping insurance has got to be the best advice yet!

Posted by: euro911 Jul 18 2014, 04:10 PM

We're good Steve, and I do appreciate your insight. It's never been a big secret and we've accounted for that 'possibility', although a reevaluation is sound advice based on recent market changes. ... I'll call the old Hag back

I originally replied to the recent Bird Board inquiry with the "an offer would need to be in excess of $150K", based on a couple of offers from a couple of years ago. I had no intention of selling at 150, just wanted to see what he might be thinking. Again, since I hadn't followed the recent market, I asked for opinions from a few sources.

The gentleman didn't provide a dollar figure until yesterday, and it was considerably higher than the 150, but I'm hearing numbers even higher numbers from the '232' group as well as from knowledgeable folks here.

As for non-disclosure, that's pretty much a given, Kev, but it is a very noteworthy point to bring up. EDIT: Oh, and lunch is on me.

For the time being, I am going to continue working on some aspects of the restoration. I plan to complete the reassembly of the drive train - it's half way there already.

Head spinning? ... I'd be lying if I said it wasn't, but I'm actually pretty level-headed and won't do anything rash ...

Mortgages are already paid off, Travis ... remember, I'm kind of an old fart

Posted by: Travis Neff Jul 18 2014, 05:14 PM

Then get a fake set of those titties you always wanted!! whoop whoop!!

Posted by: euro911 Jul 18 2014, 06:58 PM

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jul 18 2014, 07:39 PM

So, what does Dianne plan on doing with all this money? I've already spoken to her about it by the way.

Posted by: larryM Jul 18 2014, 08:20 PM

we had this same conversation in this past year about Greg Fullmer's Glockler 914-6-GT

he sold it

and is now <quote> " ... driving a Cayman R. I miss the green car but enjoy the AC. I ran my 1st auto X in it last weekend. A lot of fun. .... working on restoring my 356 so am staying busy"

.

Posted by: sixnotfour Jul 18 2014, 09:30 PM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Jul 18 2014, 03:10 PM)

We're good Steve, and I do appreciate your insight. It's never been a big secret and we've accounted for that 'possibility', although a reevaluation is sound advice based on recent market changes. ... I'll call the old Hag back

I originally replied to the recent Bird Board inquiry with the "an offer would need to be in excess of $150K", based on a couple of offers from a couple of years ago. I had no intention of selling at 150, just wanted to see what he might be thinking. Again, since I hadn't followed the recent market, I asked for opinions from a few sources.

The gentleman didn't provide a dollar figure until yesterday, and it was considerably higher than the 150, but I'm hearing numbers even higher numbers from the '232' group as well as from knowledgeable folks here.

As for non-disclosure, that's pretty much a given, Kev, but it is a very noteworthy point to bring up. EDIT: Oh, and lunch is on me.

For the time being, I am going to continue working on some aspects of the restoration. I plan to complete the reassembly of the drive train - it's half way there already.

Head spinning? ... I'd be lying if I said it wasn't, but I'm actually pretty level-headed and won't do anything rash ...

Mortgages are already paid off, Travis ... remember, I'm kind of an old fart

Posted by: bulitt Jul 19 2014, 04:55 AM

This is like watching a "Barn Find" story unfold in real time! Get Jamie to film a video, then the $$$ will really take off.

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 19 2014, 06:34 AM

looking forward to the "chasing classic car" episode. tell wayne howdy from the good folks @ 914world. ha

Posted by: orthobiz Jul 19 2014, 06:53 AM

Insurance and potential hassle of ownership of a true classic was mentioned in an earlier post.

As a side note, I caught up with John Paterek last year, he had sold his Porsche America for a princely sum. I saw it a few times in the 80's when I lived out east, what an amazing vehicle. He paid less than 20K, which was a boatload of money back then.

But part of selling was he was the worry associated with the classic. He originally stored it in a rust-free purpose-built hole under his house but as values rose he had to insure it, stored it elsewhere and he became worried about theft and damage.

Then he drove it to Hershey and an unaware SUV cut him off accidentally. No, he didn't get into an accident, but he reluctantly sold after that. He realized he could no longer enjoy it. Paid off the house, kids college, bought a 356 and had some left over.

Paul

Posted by: SLITS Jul 19 2014, 07:37 AM

Sell ....

How many non-running cars are on your property today?

And about that 2.7L ..............

Posted by: euro911 Jul 19 2014, 07:39 AM

That rings so true, Paul. Several years after we were married, my wife asked me when I was going to finish it up so she could drive it. I think she lost interest when I told her that she wasn't going to get to drive it.

When I saw the look on her face, I had to explain that I wouldn't be driving either. Out of the trailer and onto the grass ... and then I'd accept sealed bids for it.


I'm not like Jay Leno. I can't afford to drive around half-million dollar cars without worrying about the potential damage issues

... I don't get paid good money for my jokes either

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 19 2014, 07:55 AM

obviously...

Posted by: euro911 Jul 19 2014, 08:20 AM

QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Jul 19 2014, 06:55 AM)

QUOTE(SLITS @ Jul 19 2014, 06:37 AM)

Sell ....

How many non-running cars are on your property today?

And about that 2.7L ..............

QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Jul 18 2014, 06:39 PM)

So, what does Dianne plan on doing with all this money? I've already spoken to her about it by the way.

Posted by: SLITS Jul 19 2014, 08:59 AM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Jul 19 2014, 07:20 AM)

And about that 2.7L ..............
Not as many as you

Yeah yeah - 2.7, I know

Posted by: naro914 Jul 22 2014, 07:16 AM

QUOTE(orthobiz @ Jul 19 2014, 08:53 AM)

Posted by: euro911 Jul 22 2014, 11:07 AM

I rounded up the 'machinable' engine components yesterday and they're headed to the machinist for evaluation. It ran great when I tore it down (to replace the oil cooler seals and oil return tubes), so I'm not expecting a large outlay for the machine work ... just some minor clean up and possibly polishing, then reassembly.

Still haven't come to any conclusions, but at least I'm giving the old gal some time and consideration. I am still planning on obtaining current day estimates and quotes for the tasks that are beyond my capabilities. It's not like I forgot how to turn wrenches, I just can't grasp them with the same energy level I had when I first started in on her

Another thing to consider, if I do sell her, I can use the proceeds to invest in an industrial property and see if the rental income will completely pay the mortgage. I don't see many vacancies down this way, so Ill have my cousin start rounding up some listings

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 22 2014, 11:13 AM

well then. just put the engine in and autocross it.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jul 22 2014, 08:37 PM

Oh the taxes !
Advertise and sell the car for the highest offer.
BUY the best hot rod pre '74 you can find. It will be more fun than any stock 911 ever was. It will be very usable and no hassle to enjoy.
And best of all the fun begins with practically no delay.
Tempis Figit.

Posted by: euro911 Jul 22 2014, 09:13 PM

We won't talk about your first line

I still have a '66 912 and a '67 912 (converted to a 2L '6'), so we won't be missing out on the 901 body experience

I told my wife that I'd try to find her a really nice pre-'76 BMW 2002 tii grocery-getter and I really would like to get a Beck 550 to fart around in. I have a choice of air-cooled motors that can be stuffed in it ... 912, T-4, 2.0L '6' or a 2.7L '6'

Actually, I think a '4' would be more than adequate, and they don't need as much oil

Posted by: Chris H. Jul 23 2014, 09:39 AM

QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Jul 22 2014, 12:13 PM)

Posted by: colingreene Jul 23 2014, 10:18 AM

I thought I had dibs on the 2.7....

Posted by: euro911 Jul 23 2014, 12:46 PM

QUOTE(colingreene @ Jul 23 2014, 09:18 AM)

Posted by: CptTripps Jul 23 2014, 12:56 PM

I had NO clue that these had crept that far north. Holy shit!

Good luck. That'd be a tough decision for me...

Posted by: Larmo63 Jul 23 2014, 03:35 PM

Any sale I would do on this car would be CASH and carry. Period.

I hate to pay taxes on a car that the government has absolutely NO claim to.

Eff. them.

Posted by: euro911 Jul 23 2014, 09:23 PM

With this many Benjamins passing hands, security is another issue to consider. Fortunately, I have several friends that are retired LEOs, so armed security is only a phone call away




Yup, exactly which politician or 'official' agency employee handed me any wrenches over the past 37 years

Anybody, anybody, Bueller

Posted by: Larmo63 Jul 23 2014, 10:35 PM

^^Exactly!!!!^^^^

Posted by: carr914 Jul 24 2014, 04:46 AM

I wish I had held on to my 69S & 74 Euro Carrera RS just to see what the Bubble would have gone to!

Posted by: naro914 Jul 24 2014, 05:41 AM

Technically, its the buyer that pays the tax when they go to register it in their state, not the seller.
Now, if you're talking income tax, as far as I know there is no tax on selling personal property unless it's sold through a business. The buyer would have to issue you a 1099 for that to take effect...which, of course, they won't.

There is a very high probability that, if you sell it, it will sell in Europe - probably Germany. there are some very savy buyers over there that know everything on how to pay you, have it picked up, transported, and all duties and taxes they need to pay. quite easy, honestly. I've sold 3 that way, they wired the money, once received I overnighted the title and paperwork, they sent a transport company to pick it up with all the transport paperwork, Done.

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 24 2014, 02:03 PM

depositing the money (esp in such a large amount) into a financial institution most definitely set off an alarm of some sort.

Posted by: Dr Evil Jul 24 2014, 02:11 PM

Yup, last time I worked in a financial institution any amount $10K or more had a special report form to be filled out and submitted to the IRS. The amount may have changed, but the reporting does not. Also, FDIC only covers up to $100K IIRC per account. So, you would have to have several accounts to protect against loss. Or just stuff it in your mattress

Posted by: naro914 Jul 24 2014, 02:14 PM

QUOTE(Dr Evil @ Jul 24 2014, 04:11 PM)

Yup, last time I worked in a financial institution any amount $10K or more had a special report form to be filled out and submitted to the IRS. The amount may have changed, but the reporting does not. Also, FDIC only covers up to $100K IIRC per account. So, you would have to have several accounts to protect against loss. Or just stuff it in your mattress

Posted by: euro911 Jul 24 2014, 03:01 PM

$10K + does raise a red flag. Everybody wants to know where it came from and possibly why - I think it's an attempt to track down illegal activities, like mob $