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Posted by: Mueller Jan 21 2005, 01:53 PM

The cost of aftermarket throttle bodies is way up there, the bottom of scale we have the CB Performance units which are about $250 each and the rest are easily 2X that about.....

so I swung by the motorcycle salvage yard in Fremont today and picked up these beauties

45mm at the butterfly....they taper down to 42.5mm at the bottom...

includes a nice TPS and injectors...I doubt the injectors flow enough, but who knows, I'll find out once I get the specs....

no idea of what bike they came off of yet.....price was $125

top view:


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Posted by: Mueller Jan 21 2005, 01:53 PM

and a view of the bottom of the assembly:


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Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 21 2005, 01:55 PM

Dude! BTW that second picture looks like sir andy took it.

Posted by: Mueller Jan 21 2005, 01:58 PM

i had to hurry up and take the picture, I heard our CEO walking down the hallway

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 21 2005, 02:00 PM

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 21 2005, 11:58 AM)

QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Jan 21 2005, 12:55 PM) Dude!  :headbanger:  BTW that second picture looks like sir andy took it. i had to hurry up and take the picture, I heard our CEO walking down the hallway

That's funny!

Posted by: Mueller Jan 21 2005, 02:34 PM

it's lunch time now, no need to hide my projects

wow, the new throttle bodies sure come close to matching the centerline of the manifolds.......

centerline to centerline measurements:

Top of manifold = 90.78mm

bottom of manifold (mating surface to head) = 86.45mm

Throttle bodies = 89.85mm

Posted by: Mueller Jan 21 2005, 02:35 PM

opps...here is a picture:


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Posted by: DNHunt Jan 21 2005, 02:42 PM

Mike

Are those grooves in the TBs for O-rings. Maybe you could cut a seat in the manifolds and seal them with an O-ring. Use the studs for some sort of clamping rig. Then maybe some selective port matching.

Dave

Posted by: Root_Werks Jan 21 2005, 02:54 PM

Using bike TB's like this is a great idea really. A guy at work here is using them to put a stand along on his RX7. They are sort of universal in design. I like it and hope you get something put together! I would love to see it!

Posted by: SLITS Jan 21 2005, 03:03 PM

I have a TB on my 2.0 that is definitely not stock, but haven't bothered to see who or what. Maybe I'll take a pic of it and post it (It makes my car faster )

Posted by: lapuwali Jan 21 2005, 03:40 PM

Not really an O-ring (putting on my "worked on bikes for 15 years" hat). Bike intake to head manifolds are usually just rubber (or rubber-like) castings, with a lip machined into the inside to catch that groove. I haven't worked on bikes since EFI became commonplace. Those TBs look exactly like a typical set of carbs on any of a number of inline-4 bikes. There are (were) only two manufacturers of carbs on the Japanese bikes: Mikuni and Keihin. I'd be willing to bet money that one of those manufacturers made these TBs.

It would be interesting to know what the flow rate on those injectors are. I'd be willing to bet a set of injectors from a 750-1000cc bike engine would actually be adequate for a stock-ish Type IV. Figure 120-150hp for the bike engine.

Posted by: Mueller Jan 21 2005, 03:50 PM

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jan 21 2005, 02:40 PM)

QUOTE (DNHunt @ Jan 21 2005, 12:42 PM) Mike Are those grooves in the TBs for O-rings. Maybe you could cut a seat in the manifolds and seal them with an O-ring. Use the studs for some sort of clamping rig. Then maybe some selective port matching. Dave Not really an O-ring (putting on my "worked on bikes for 15 years" hat). Bike intake to head manifolds are usually just rubber (or rubber-like) castings, with a lip machined into the inside to catch that groove. I haven't worked on bikes since EFI became commonplace. Those TBs look exactly like a typical set of carbs on any of a number of inline-4 bikes. There are (were) only two manufacturers of carbs on the Japanese bikes: Mikuni and Keihin. I'd be willing to bet money that one of those manufacturers made these TBs. It would be interesting to know what the flow rate on those injectors are. I'd be willing to bet a set of injectors from a 750-1000cc bike engine would actually be adequate for a stock-ish Type IV. Figure 120-150hp for the bike engine.

James....yep Mikuni throttle bodies.....

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 21 2005, 04:05 PM

I have done this twice! It works...

That size is perfect for the size engine you are doing..

Posted by: Travis Neff Jan 21 2005, 04:28 PM

can't you also get TB's with slide valves too? woohoo!

Posted by: bondo Jan 21 2005, 04:43 PM

Mueller: What are all of your projects? You seem to have quite a few... Will they all fit in one post?

Posted by: rdauenhauer Jan 21 2005, 04:46 PM

So mike are you considering breaking up the bank and appling a pair to each side (more work) or modifing runners for a central location & maintaing the linkage and single TPS?

Posted by: Stephane Jan 21 2005, 04:46 PM

Those look good. What type of injection system are you gonna use with these?


Stephane

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 21 2005, 09:44 PM

I don't really have anything to say, except Cool!

Posted by: Mueller Jan 28 2005, 05:03 PM

Just got back from the local cycle shop...found out my new throttle bodies came off an '02 or '03 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-12R...rated at 165 horsepower

Who knows, the fuel injectors might just work on my new motor afterall....


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Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 28 2005, 06:32 PM

You should just use the whole Ninja motor! not!

Posted by: Qarl Feb 4 2005, 12:30 AM

I think the throttle bodies butterfiles connect together with a common shaft.

You might be able to break them apart, adda a spacer and get them to fit perfectly... then reassemble with a modified shaft.

Posted by: Qarl Feb 4 2005, 12:36 AM

More good info here...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=180639&highlight=itb%2A

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=194689&highlight=individual+throttle

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179053

Posted by: Qarl Feb 4 2005, 09:36 PM

SO??? Who's gonna do it?

Posted by: Mueller May 24 2005, 03:36 PM

played with the TB's a little over the weekend...mostly taking them apart somewhat and getting dimensions off of them for different ideas on how to mount them....


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Posted by: Mueller May 24 2005, 03:39 PM

adapter ideas:

adapter 1....this one would use a hose (see pic) and a clamp to hold the TB to the plate...the factory method is very similar....

the clamp is a special clamp which is smooth on the inside so that it will not damage the hose.....

as well as clamping it, the TB has a boss on the side which will be used to bolt on a bracket that will bolt onto the plate for more support.......




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Posted by: Mueller May 24 2005, 03:42 PM

adapter 2....

this one would have a counterbore for the TB to sit inside, an O-ring groove would help for sealing...after assembled, a 2 part epoxy would be inserted inbetween the TB and the plate..the O-ring would prevent the epoxy from leaking past the bottom of the TB.

once again, the TB would also be bolted to the adapter via the bracket attaching to the protrusion on the TB...




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Posted by: Randal May 24 2005, 03:56 PM

Nice designs Mike.

Those look much shorter that the TWM units, don't they?

We'd better keep you away from the motorcycle folks, otherwise they will steal you away from the Bay area, put you in Japan designing stuff for them.

My only question is air. On adapter 1 will the rubber band thing be tight enough, with a clamp, to eliminate air getting sucked in, or does that make any difference?

Posted by: Cloudbuster May 24 2005, 03:58 PM

Adapter one! Go with what the factory did.

How is the stapler going to be mounted?

Posted by: Aaron Cox May 24 2005, 03:59 PM

rubber:

well they use rubber boots on turbo setups all the time....i would think rubber would be ok in a low pressure/vaccuum zone

Posted by: Mueller May 24 2005, 04:02 PM

the hose and clamp are designed for turbocharged applications so I have no worries about it...the second plate would be cheaper....the hose (which I already bought) is $25 per foot (min. 1 foot), the stainless steel clamps are $4 each (only bought one so far)

not shown is that the adapter plates will be drilled and tapped and bolted to the manifolds from underneath the manifold....

the hardest part will be making the throttle linkage.....

Posted by: Mueller May 24 2005, 04:03 PM

the stapler is for me to hit myself with if I keep taking things apart and not making progress, LOL

Posted by: MecGen May 24 2005, 04:05 PM

Hey Mike
The size of the injector hole/mounts, is this a standard automotive size, or will it be machined to fit ??
This should work, when you get the mounting figured out.
My vote is #1, the simpler the better, less things to go wrong...
later
Joe

Posted by: Mueller May 24 2005, 04:08 PM

the seal on the end of the injectors looks very close the stock 914 injectors, however the motorcycle injectors are nice and short...I will be using them..they flow enough for 165+ horsepower so I'll be okay for now......

Posted by: Aaron Cox May 24 2005, 04:15 PM

these going on the turbo motor or the stroker?

Posted by: jhadler May 24 2005, 04:25 PM

Hey Mike,

Those Wakisaki throttles look great! Let us all know how it works out!

With my workload and the imminent expansion of the family unit, I didn't have the time to engineer other TB's to fit, so I broke down and bought the TWM's. But, the good thing is I wound up paying a little less than I would have paid for the cheap cast throttles from CB-Perf. If anyone's thinking of going the way of ITB's, look a the big pony car shops. They deal in volume, so I guess that's why they're more than 30% cheaper than TWM...

So, the project continues (slowly), TB's are on the way, and I guess I'll be ordering the MSII when it's available...

This is going to be the most non-stock looking, stock motor in a 914...

-Josh2

Posted by: Mueller May 24 2005, 04:43 PM

both......

Posted by: Randal May 24 2005, 04:57 PM

QUOTE

is $25 per foot

That's pretty cost effective, i.e., a foot will do 3 cars, right?

Sure glad I have a set of those NTB's beauties as well!

Posted by: andys May 24 2005, 04:58 PM

Mike,

You might consider the stock bike manifold rubber bonded aluminum adapters. I'm willing to bet they are a two-bolt pattern type with the correct coupling for the throttle bodies. Transfer the bolt pattern to your manifolds, and you're good-to-go. You may be able to find these aftermarket as well.

Andy

Posted by: xitspd May 24 2005, 05:02 PM

Brilliant Mike... Keep us informed with your progress... In Japan there are many exporters of late model bikes and components shipping worldwide (cheap). If your project works, I may be able to help source throttle bodies for you. I will visit Japan again in late Sept.

Dan

Posted by: Aaron Cox May 24 2005, 05:06 PM

throttle linkage cant be too hard.

mike i had an idea. CB performance sells hex bar linkages that inetgrate into their air cleaner base. its a ~.5" thick piece of cast AL with a post that the linkage pivots off of. can you not use this as the plate for which your TB's will sit on?

another thing. does LINK require a MPS type deal? you going to tap each manifold for a vacccuum port?

Posted by: Mueller May 24 2005, 05:31 PM

I've looked at the intake flange you speak of.......I cannot find them used (normally sold with the motor)...and brand new they are $35.99 each.....(I'd need 4 of those puppies...ouch)




Dan,

I would be nice to have it so that minimal machining needs to be done, this way it would open the door for more conversions.....I'm sure it'll work, just how much effort it'll be is another story

Posted by: Paul Illick May 24 2005, 07:33 PM

Cool. I'm doing the same thing using Suzuki GSXR throttle bodies on a Ford Ztech engine going into a Lotus Seven replica. If you want to see some other people's projects check out some of the links in the thread at :

http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2957&page=1&pp=20

They're ricers, but it all works the same. You're right that the big boo is going to be the linkage. It's lots easier on an inline engine. The common way to get them onto manifolds is using silicone hose and clamps on manifold stubs, the way they were attached to the bike motor, but that won't keep the carbs rigid enough to keep them in sync using VW/914 style manifolds. You might want to check out using dual carb type cable linkage for a BMW R-series motorcycle or, if I remember right, some older British sports cars like Spitfires and TR-3's. Seems the cable might be easier.

Posted by: rick 918-S May 24 2005, 07:35 PM

I was wondering what happened to this project. This is a cool low buck setup. K.I.S.S. Mike. This will work. Don't try to re-invent the wheel. Just make it work. I have a good 1.7 I would love to try this on.

Posted by: andys May 25 2005, 10:41 AM

QUOTE (Mueller @ May 24 2005, 03:31 PM)

QUOTE (andys @ May 24 2005, 03:58 PM) Mike, You might consider the stock bike manifold rubber bonded aluminum adapters. I'm willing to bet they are a two-bolt pattern type with the correct coupling for the throttle bodies. Transfer the bolt pattern to your manifolds, and you're good-to-go. You may be able to find these aftermarket as well. Andy I've looked at the intake flange you speak of.......I cannot find them used (normally sold with the motor)...and brand new they are $35.99 each.....(I'd need 4 of those puppies...ouch)

Mike,

I'll have to dig through some stuff in hope of finding an aftermarket source for the boot adapters. In my mind, I can still visualize the catalog page showing them; it's just been a lot of years since I messed with this stuff. Try Dennis Kirk, or Chaparral. That internally molded-in o-ring for the rubber boot is a must have in order to keep the throttle body from popping off, though I have seen people use a short straight section of hose with clamps....not pretty.


Andy

Posted by: Mueller May 25 2005, 01:43 PM

Andy,

I think a brace similar to the green one here should work to hold the TB's in place along with the hose/clamp parts.


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Posted by: Randal May 25 2005, 02:58 PM

Mike - Can you make adapter 2 out of the same metal as the TBs and if so couldn't could you just bronze or weld the two together?

Posted by: andys May 25 2005, 03:27 PM

Mike,

Looks good! You need the rigid mount to facillitate the throttle linkage anyway.

That Solidworks?

Andy

Posted by: Mueller May 26 2005, 12:02 AM

I've thought about welding them on the very most bottem section, but I only have a MIG which is not set up for aluminum and I don;t think I trust myself using my oxy-acet. setup

TIG would be best but they'll still have to be positioned darn near perfect.....

brazing might work, but I still would worry about the heat since the walls are pretty thin on the TB's

Andy,

Pro/E...drawing not as pretty as it could be, but I'm trying not to spend too much time on this project....

Posted by: McMark May 26 2005, 01:01 AM

Mike, I'm probably going to be buying a TIG setup very soon.

Posted by: Mueller May 26 2005, 10:13 AM

Really???

cool....you are getting one that is AC/DC correct??
The cheaper DC only units are not recommended for aluminum.

I've been thinking of buying one, but I cannot justify the cost....I'd be willing to throw some money your way to help "invest" in the welder

Posted by: Site Aug 9 2005, 12:55 PM

I'm eagerly following this. Is there anything new to report on using the throttle bodies?

Posted by: Site Oct 31 2005, 03:59 PM

Is anyone doing custom work with individual throttle bodies?

Posted by: Mueller Oct 31 2005, 06:27 PM

If you do a google search, you might find the few sites showing adapting motorcycle t/b's to a 911 (not sure if completed or not), a few Hondas and at least one Neon

no progress to report on mine....

Posted by: Terrance Oct 31 2005, 06:59 PM

Hehe, first time I saw this thread.

Mike - Love the vintage, circa 1988 radio headphones

Posted by: Aaron Cox Oct 31 2005, 07:05 PM

mike - you give up on this?

Posted by: Mueller Oct 31 2005, 10:50 PM

nope, still going to do it, just other projects ahead of this one....1st priority is getting my car running better, then the brakes , then ???? and then the throttle bodies

Posted by: Mueller Mar 24 2006, 03:25 PM

been a while since I've touched these parts...so this weekend* I'll be machining the manifolds by removing the material in red and cutting 2 pockets for the T/Bs to slip/rest into

once placed inside, I shall weld the T/Bs to the manifold, only negative things I can think of is that due to the manifold design, long studs will have to be used and installation of the T/B-manifold assembly to a motor already in the car might be a PITA

*(unless someone can give me a good proven reason not to )




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Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 24 2006, 03:50 PM

why weld them on? bolt on or clamp on would be THE hot tip....

Posted by: speedster356 Mar 24 2006, 04:45 PM

I have heard that the original motorcycle mounting is the same bolt spacing as an IDF? I mate has used a set of Suzuki Hyabusa bodies on his Alfa 2.0ltr powered sports car with great success.

Posted by: Mueller Mar 24 2006, 04:52 PM

no real reason for bolt-on or clamp on....usually attachment methods like that are for "universal" or more than one type of application (the manifold accepts a weber, a dell(?) or off the shelf throttle bodies such as Jenvey or TWM's)

doing it this way will just means that this assembly will only work with a Type IV motor (1.7/1.8 or 2.0 heads)

The TB's shouldn't need to be removed from the manifold, wrong size TB?? Well, sell these and buy new ones...manifolds are $50 to $80 per pair, not that big of a deal....

Even "if" the TB's need rebuilding down the line, they can still be taken apart..........

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 24 2006, 04:56 PM

Posted by: Mueller Mar 24 2006, 05:01 PM

could be...it seems there is a "standard" 90mm bore to bore spacing for a lot of the throttle bodies

Posted by: Mueller Apr 2 2006, 12:52 AM

progress today...I decided no welding or brazing and no adapter plate....

I simply machined the top of the manifold and will attach the throttle body directly to it with a hose and clamp...this is a similar method to how the t/bs are held on on the motorcycle


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Posted by: Mueller Apr 2 2006, 12:52 AM

with hose section


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Posted by: Aaron Cox Apr 2 2006, 12:54 AM

nicely done mike!

why did you choose the "shorty manifolds" over CB talls etc???

Posted by: Mueller Apr 2 2006, 12:54 AM

the hose clamp is a special clamp which is used in turbocharger applications, it has a true 360° hold on the hose....it's on there pretty darn tight, I'll still add a bracket to align each t/b to on another on a common manifold.




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Posted by: Mueller Apr 2 2006, 12:55 AM

These are what I had, didn't know there are different options for the manifolds...oh yea, the cut is offset from the inlet on purpose, this matches the throttle body and allows the fuel injector to spray directly at the intake valve like the factory setup....it's a little further away, but I think it'll be fine...

Posted by: DNHunt Apr 2 2006, 06:38 AM

Very cool Mike. That sure looks like fun.

Dave

Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 2 2006, 08:53 AM

Very cool Mike! Were watching you..

Posted by: Mueller Apr 2 2006, 01:19 PM

thanks....hard part is not tracking the "chips" back into the house

Posted by: Porcharu Apr 2 2006, 02:21 PM

Hey Mike - is your CNC mill up and running now or are you still just jogging around with the keyboard?

Posted by: Mueller Apr 2 2006, 03:09 PM

full CNC operation(old PC running DOS program .....TurboCNC)....my G-code programming sucks, I have BobCAD which is kicking my tail trying to learn it...these cuts made with SimpleCNC

Posted by: jsteele22 Apr 2 2006, 04:24 PM

Glad to see this project coming back to life !

Just out of curiosity, what is that little hole in the outer side of the manifold ?

Posted by: Mueller Apr 2 2006, 08:02 PM

the plug is for a vac. fitting

Posted by: JmuRiz Apr 3 2006, 08:10 AM

Sweet, was waiting on a update for this, looks good.

Posted by: tdsmoonchild Apr 3 2006, 08:18 AM

Can't wait to see how it turns out!

Posted by: Aaron Cox Apr 3 2006, 08:33 AM

Mike,

since the TB's are not rigid mounted, how do you plan to do a linkage between them? seems it will be pretty hard to sync if they are free to move up and down a little.....

Posted by: jonwatts Apr 3 2006, 08:57 AM

I think he's going to add a bracket. Plus he's using a hose but it's so short there's only one clamp so I can see it being pretty tight. Hey Mike, is there enough material on the TB and manifold to machine it down for a V-band clamp? Then you wouldn't need to use the short hose at all.

Posted by: Porcharu Apr 3 2006, 09:29 AM

I had the demo version of Bobcad - that thing is a bear to learn. More like a learning cliff than curve.

Posted by: Mueller Apr 3 2006, 12:17 PM

looked into it....I already bought the hose ($16 per ft), and don't want to spend too much time and effort on these...

here is them mounted on one side of the motor....

I screwed up, these manifolds are for 2.0 3-bolt heads...my motor is a 1.8 with 4-bolt heads, anyone want to buy these??

(2.0 head in picture is thrashed beyond repair and for mock up use)


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Posted by: Mueller Apr 3 2006, 12:18 PM

ugly, but it'll work.....


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Posted by: thesey914 Apr 3 2006, 02:48 PM

mike, surely those manifolds have what looks like the bosses for the 4 stud 1.7/1.8 heads. You just have to drill them.

Posted by: Leo Imperial Apr 3 2006, 03:27 PM

YES!!!
I have got to get those.
I am in the middle of working on the injectors on my 2.0
and have been debating making an attempt at this for a few days.
I will be the the 1st to say "Deal or no deal?"

Posted by: bernbomb914 Apr 3 2006, 06:12 PM

mike if you dont sell these to Leo let me know what you will charge for the whole system

Bernie

Posted by: Mueller Apr 3 2006, 11:44 PM

I'm going to have 2 complete systems for sale since I doubt I'm going to use 1 due to my turbo install which would be easier with a conventional plenum/single T/B design.....

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 3 2006, 11:51 PM

Mike,
Pardon me, I am going to show my total ignorance here. These are a great idea....but what FI system are you going to be using them with?
Would this setup work with a stock injection?

Nomex is now on....

Posted by: Aaron Cox Apr 3 2006, 11:55 PM

imguessing MS or SDS

Posted by: SirAndy Apr 4 2006, 12:00 AM

how about a set of those?

and to plug myself shamelessly, i do have a set for sale in the classifieds ...
Andy


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Posted by: redshift Apr 4 2006, 12:02 AM

They won't even fit on a 914!

hahaha


M

Posted by: fiid Apr 4 2006, 12:40 AM

It almost certainly won't work with stock injection since the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) profile will almost certainly be different due to the short intake runner and lack of intake plenum.

Sorry! It ought to work well with a megasquirt though - although might require some cleverness to get it to work well....

Posted by: neo914-6 Apr 4 2006, 01:18 AM

Mike,

Found an engineer/fabricator in Alviso, maybe time for lunch again...

Check out his turboed bug:
2110 Turbo VW engine
New fully prep VW race case
Cima Pistons
Straight cut gears
MSD Ignition
Forged 82mm stroker crank
T3 RayJay Turbo Charger
Bugpack Stroker Rods
Street Eliminator Heads 42X37
Camshaft 298X515
Kennedy 2500lb clutch W/4 puc Feramic disc
Large Oil Cooler
Doghouse Fan Shroud
Horsepower 300 @ 18 psi boost
42mm Dellorto side draft


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Posted by: Mueller Apr 4 2006, 12:18 PM

Dan, to be used with aftermarket FI such as Megasquirt or http://www.link-electro.co.nz/home.html* or Electromotive..........

*this is what I have on the car right now

Posted by: Mueller Apr 19 2006, 12:30 PM

A big thank you to non-member SpunOne

He made these spun aluminum velocity stacks for my throttle bodies...

As you can see there is some overlap which is okay, I'll mill off the offending material and butt weld the 2 together. For my applications, I doubt I'd be able to tell or notice any negative effects from doing this.

Oh yea....one stack tried to "escape"...and got "squished" underneath my Hyundia ...luckly Paul made 9

Posted by: spunone Apr 19 2006, 12:59 PM

WHOOOOAAAAA glad ya got the extra one .Hope they work for ya

Posted by: spunone Apr 19 2006, 01:29 PM

WOW those are some really nice lookin stacks if I must say so myself. Can't wait to see it all togeather good luck

Posted by: maf914 Apr 19 2006, 02:03 PM

That's what I thought , too. Just like the CB Performance manifolds that Andy shows in his photo. Those work with both three and four bolt heads.

Posted by: Mueller Apr 19 2006, 02:05 PM

there was an aluminum plug that popped right out with a little

Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 19 2006, 02:10 PM

Umm. Mike, you used a some rair Solex manifolds.

Looks cool. How many hours are in it right now?


B

Posted by: Mueller Apr 19 2006, 02:37 PM

Posted by: michel richard Apr 19 2006, 03:35 PM

overlapping stacks are very cool. Some 356 had them.

Michel

Posted by: jhadler Apr 19 2006, 04:40 PM

Hey Mike,

Looks pretty slick there!

Are those rubber skirts just adding extra sealing ability? Or are they structural? If they're structural, how will your throttle linkage account for movement of the throttles on the soft mounting?

-Josh2

Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 19 2006, 04:42 PM

And Josh.. pulls out the only question I had left for Mikey!!

This was my only concern.

I'm a tad confused on all of this.. are the Jenvey's and TWM's really that expensive?


B

Posted by: jhadler Apr 19 2006, 04:50 PM

Sorry there Brad, didn't mean to steal your thunder there...

I recall that Mike got those TB's out of a junkyard Kawasaki. Super cheap. Granted, the engineering time he's invested is pretty big, but it's his own time...

Be nice if a cheap kit can come of this.

-Josh2

Posted by: Mueller Apr 19 2006, 04:54 PM

With electronic throttle actuators, AKA E-throttle, no outside forces to act upon the sealing rings

Just kidding

I'll be adding a bracket (thought I addressed that earlier, must have been on another thread or site)

Jenvys and TWM are about $800 min. per 4 throat application...this does not include air filters or injectors.

I have enough parts for 2 engines, so far I have an average of $200 into each one with an hour per added (at $5 an hour, hahahaha)

I really don't need these anymore, I just want to finally finish a project without abandoning it

Posted by: jhadler Apr 19 2006, 06:45 PM

Where are you pricing them from? I found TWM's for $500 for the set. Including fuel rails. Of course, that still didn't include linkage or manifolds. And if you already had that stuff, then boneyard parts make a lot more sense.

Posted by: Mueller Apr 19 2006, 07:00 PM

I was going by their "list price".....

$361 X 2 (T/B's)
$173 X 1 (fuel rail kit)
$50 X 4 (air horns)

Right there it is $1095 without injectors or TPS or aircleaners.....

even if I only save a few hundred bucks all together, I'd rather take a few months to spend the money than all at once

Posted by: Mueller May 2 2006, 11:41 AM

A little bit more progress....

I only have the one length velocity stack to t/b adapter tubes but it wouldn't be that hard to make a few different lengths.

You can see the overlap that I had to deal with, these are not as pretty as they should be, I screwed up and removed about .100" too much from one...no big deal, I'll figure something out

Still struggling with the aircleaner choice, I'll have a better idea once I mock these up on the motor in the car for a clearance check.

Posted by: Mueller Nov 5 2006, 10:21 PM

finally worked on them again...all 4 manifolds are machined...now to tackle the linkage and the air cleaners...



a little dreaming here

Posted by: Mueller Nov 5 2006, 10:24 PM

if you didn't notice, I modified the air-horns...makes the install a little nicer and simpler without the overhang of the original ones...hope you don't mind too much Paul

Posted by: rick 918-S Nov 5 2006, 10:32 PM

! would love to have those! Nice work Mike!

Posted by: McMark Nov 5 2006, 10:35 PM

Nice work Mike!

Posted by: turboman808 Nov 5 2006, 10:53 PM

This is a great idea. I have seen it many times on hondas and glad to see it works here as well. At that price I got to wonder why people still want to mess with carbs.

What are you gonna use for engine management?

Also dare I say these stacks look cooler then TWM!!!

Posted by: spunone Nov 6 2006, 02:22 PM

Mike you Hack what did you do to the stacks???? If ya need a different type let me know ie taller or shorter bigger or smaller.They look great and great job trimming down that can be alittle tricky. CYA

Posted by: Mueller Nov 6 2006, 03:52 PM

I thought you'd get a kick out of it, hahaha

For trimming them down I made a holder for the base and a large diameter bull nose live center..worked like a charm, took a few minutes per stack...

for machining the manifolds, I got that down to less than 15 minutes per manifold...the setup was a PITA...I'd make a fixture if I was going to do them again which I don't plan on

great thing about the CNC is that you can walk away while it's working and do something else.....

I saw the stacks I'm guessing you made for Jake for those aircleaners??....pretty slick and tempting to duplicate (for personal use only Jake )

Posted by: Mueller Nov 6 2006, 03:56 PM

Posted by: McMark Jan 16 2007, 01:44 PM

Since someone was asking about this project, I thought I'd bring it to the top...

Posted by: toon1 Jan 16 2007, 01:53 PM

thank's Mark,

So Mike how's this going??


Any more pics?

Posted by: Mueller Jan 16 2007, 03:17 PM

Not much progress, I did buy some bicycle shifter cables with sheathing(covering) to start on the linkage, I am going to attempt to use cables instead of hard linkage like normally used.

Posted by: r_towle Jan 16 2007, 03:21 PM

Take a look at the 2-1 snowmobile cable setups...there are alot of them, and they all fit only certain snowmobiles, but how they do it...kinda simple really.

There is one on an aircooled airplane web site also, decent little 2-1 cable system.

Rich


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Posted by: Aaron Cox Jan 16 2007, 03:30 PM

look at freestyle BMX bikes...
they have "gyro" which splits the cables from 1 -2 and then 2-1 .... really simple...

Posted by: r_towle Jan 16 2007, 03:38 PM

The problem I had with those are they are inline.

If you try to get it all to fit inside the engine bay, using the stock accel cable to drive the system, you end up having to turn the cables coming out of the gyro, or really any of the inline ones, so much that the friction kills you.

I tried terry cables, special cables from Campagnolia....it was just to much of a turn to have it work...

Eventually I built a thing (Which I am more than happy to ship out Mike...its just collecting dust, and may be a good starting point from a thinking perspective...) that takes in the cable from the accel cable, and using a pulley mounted horizontally produces two cables that are now 90 degrees from the accel cable.

The three I built worked, but I dont have a machine shop, so my tolerences were not close enough to rid myself of the friction...
It was really close, got a few bearings, etc etc...

Then my some took my test mule away.




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Posted by: E-Man Nov 27 2007, 09:56 AM

Hi Mike!

Any progress on this front?

I'm looking to go down this path with a 2056 that currently has 44IDFs and full Mallory ignition (Unilite/Hyfire 6AL/Promaster). So far all I've collected is the manifolds. Not sure what TBs to get yet (GSXR 1000s?) or what controller (SDS probably; fuel only).

-Mike