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Posted by: doug_b_928 Aug 10 2014, 08:10 PM

I lifted my car for the first time today. The longs have rust and the gap at the top of the door widened (the weight of the rear of the car was pulling it down such that the door gap opened more at the top (see pic below).



I'd say it was double what it is when the wheels are on the ground. So, I won't be surprised if this is because of the rust having weakened the chassis (in fact, I'm glad that it didn't snap off completely), but I'm wondering if some widening like this is normal when the car is lifted from the jack point areas (i.e., using a two post lift) and, if so, how much one should expect.

Posted by: flash914 Aug 10 2014, 08:27 PM

The car new would have none- no change. Joe Sharp -a well known name on this forum- told me to open both doors and have a 225 lb. person stand on the door sill and jump. I would not do that on that car I would go straight to repairs. Gordon

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Aug 10 2014, 08:44 PM

That car has cancer. Probably bad if the gaps are opening up.

Zach

Posted by: scotty b Aug 10 2014, 09:03 PM

bad news. All that bubbling under the gold decal isn't a good sign either. More likely than not, the bottom of the door jamb is also shot.

Posted by: doug_b_928 Aug 10 2014, 09:18 PM

Yes, the car has lots of cancer. Good to know that the gaps shouldn't widen. Would the gap pictured above be from the weakness in the area where the longs intersect the firewall? The rust on this car is similar to the 'bringing out the dead' and 'digging into hell' threads, but they didn't mention anything about sagging like this.

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 10 2014, 09:28 PM

Straight to repairs. Don't mess with it too much or the door won't close any more. I had one that collapsed on the floor when We stood on the rocker with the door open.

Posted by: brant Aug 10 2014, 09:46 PM

You better asses or post pics
It might not be safe on the road any longer

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 10 2014, 11:25 PM

Nope ...

Posted by: doug_b_928 Aug 11 2014, 05:54 AM

Thanks for the feedback guys. I removed the engine (was a little puckered being under it knowing it was sagging), and the door gaps were just as big without the weight of the engine

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 11 2014, 07:55 AM

It's time to start shopping for a CA or AZ roller!

Posted by: doug_b_928 Aug 11 2014, 07:59 AM

But that would be too easy

Posted by: Dave_Darling Aug 11 2014, 08:18 AM

OK, then shop for a welder!

--DD

Posted by: doug_b_928 Aug 11 2014, 08:40 AM

Check

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 11 2014, 05:47 PM

And once you assess and get a welder go here:

http://www.restoration-design.com/index.html

Posted by: doug_b_928 Aug 11 2014, 05:55 PM

Yeah, that's the plan. BTW, the reason I'm not planning to go the roller route is because this is my first car and I'm hoping to save it (but not at any cost).

Posted by: stugray Aug 11 2014, 06:11 PM

Do you mean "This was my very first car and I have a sentimental attachment to it"
OR
"I just bought this and is my very first car"

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 11 2014, 06:13 PM

That's understandable. The good news is that most of the panels are available that you will probably need. Get it all apart and post some pics. Most likely your longs are very rusty. You'll want to check the suspension ears while you're at it.

Depending on your budget you might want to have someone else get it back to structurally solid and do the rest yourself. Rick 918-S lives in Duluth. He has a Celette bench and his work very well-known. You have to get it lined up just right when you replace the longs or the doors will never line up right.

Posted by: doug_b_928 Aug 11 2014, 06:20 PM

Yeah, I've already been in touch with Rick and RD. I wish I could drop the car off and have it completely done, but that's not in the budget. Once I get into it I'll know better how best to proceed.

Posted by: doug_b_928 Aug 11 2014, 06:23 PM

Stugray, sorry I didn't see your post. This was my very first car. There is a thread here about it (1973 914 was/is my first car). Apparently it was used and abused before I bought it back in 1985. Must have been winter driven. I noticed yesterday that it even has a block heater installed.

Posted by: mepstein Aug 11 2014, 07:47 PM

Nothing that a lot of time and money won't fix. Welcome to the restoration club.

Posted by: doug_b_928 Aug 11 2014, 08:10 PM

Thanks. I'm eager to learn.

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 11 2014, 08:35 PM

Post some pics of your passenger side longs. In your first pic, i can see a rust hole where your jack post should be ...

Posted by: doug_b_928 Aug 11 2014, 10:07 PM

I don't have pics on this computer, but if you search "1973 914 was/is my first car" there are plenty of pics there. The outer longs are gone, the inners are half gone at the back, the lower inner firewall needs help, the hell hole and a bit on the wheel house (from what I can see) also needs rust repair. Door sills, rear floor pans, rear trunk floor pan are all in need of replacement. Other than that the car is great . Actually, the front (aside from the hood), is in pretty good condition. Engine mounts might be okay and suspension ears also look salvageable.

Posted by: Claus Graf Dec 11 2014, 08:40 AM

Had I done the test of opening the doors and jumping, my 74 914 would have split in half. So I removed the engine and trans. Built a wood frame with casters and put the 914 on top. This way the car would remain aligned while I cut and rebuild the longitudinals.


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Posted by: wndsnd Dec 11 2014, 08:59 AM

Shhhhhhhhhhhh.......

Yep.

and this is 8 inches [ ] is what I told my wife....



John

Posted by: Philip W. Dec 11 2014, 09:00 AM

any more pictures of the process ?

Posted by: cary Dec 11 2014, 09:37 AM

My kind of guy ................. LOL
And learn you will.

Posted by: Jonathan Livesay Dec 11 2014, 11:22 AM

Wouldn't the correct answer be: yes it's normal, but it is not good?

Posted by: IVGUY Dec 11 2014, 07:29 PM

"I noticed yesterday that it even has a block heater installed."

Ok I wasnt aware this option was available on Canadian 914's ???

Posted by: Claus Graf Dec 12 2014, 07:08 AM

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Posted by: stevegm Dec 12 2014, 07:12 AM

Yes. Or - Yes, unfortunately, it is fairly normal among many of the 914s left. And, unfortunately, is a signal that, although it can be done, it will be very costly to fix.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Dec 12 2014, 08:02 AM

The good news is once you fix it correctly, you will never have to worry about it again and can drive it knowing it is safe to drive.

Posted by: doug_b_928 Dec 12 2014, 10:13 AM

I built a bench a la Hail and put the car on it. Then I could really see that it is twisted in the rear up to the firewall (from 1.5" at the back, to 7mm at the firewall). The brain trust says that it would need to have most of the metal work done on a Celette, which is sounding the death knell for my car. The car needs everything else too, so I was hoping to do the metal work myself to save as much as possible (was really looking forward to it as well), or at least have a pro do the most difficult stuff and do the rest myself. But the necessity to send the car away for the metal work to be done on a Celette basically doubled the cost (might as well get all the metal work and paint done by the pro at that point). I was going to put double what it would be worth into it out of sentimentality (aka insanity), but doubling that amount again is preposterous. Though I have to say, I still intermittently think about making jigs from a good tub (a local guy has one--he doesn't want to sell it but might let me use it to make jigs) and trying to do the straightening and metal work with that..... and then I come back to reality.

Posted by: bandjoey Dec 12 2014, 11:27 AM

Pull up the restoration thread. Many cars there saved and you can see the "insides" before cutting. I

Posted by: siverson Dec 12 2014, 11:32 AM

I agree that Doug B's photo looks really bad and that car needs repairs now, but I disagree that they should not flex at all.

I've owned 5 914s now and I think they ALL flexed to some degree when jacking them up on the donut with an engine in. Even the 30k mile, all original, essentially rust free, 1.7 that I used to have had some movement when the car was jacked up. It was very, very subtle, but if you marked the door with tape it was easy to see.

I never had a new car, so can't say how they used to perform, but I bet nearly all the cars are flexing now a little and the door gaps widen when lifted.

Another way to see/feel the small movement is to put your finger in the door gap as you jack up the car - you'll feel it pinch a little. But I wouldn't recommend doing that on Doug B's car!

-Steve

Posted by: Claus Graf Dec 19 2014, 06:46 AM

This is what my longs looked like. Had some sheetmetal and angle iron covered with fiberglass.


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Posted by: siverson Dec 19 2014, 05:45 PM

I guess you just needed some thicker fiberglass!!!

Posted by: worn Dec 21 2014, 07:52 PM

That wood frame looks great! I made a frame that held my TR6 out of half inch plywood. If you know about racking forces and diagonals they can be super strong. This is a car for which body work is not extra expensive in materials. A big length of sheet metal, restoration designs, amig or tig and off you go. But time will be an issue. Now parts, there you can spend the money. The porsche name seems to do something to the parts.