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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ OT Harley Davidson

Posted by: ws91420 Jan 25 2005, 07:47 PM

I was watching a special on the development of the V-Rod and heard that the engine was developed jointly by HD and Porsche and was even tested on dynos at the Porsche facilities in Germany.. I know the Vrod has been out for awhile I just didn't catch it the first time I saw the special. A two wheel Porsche maybe, but its water cooled.

Posted by: Hammy Jan 25 2005, 08:03 PM

Saw it. I think they said it was the most powerful Harley ever or something, but none of the guys on there seemed too thrilled with it. IPB Image

Posted by: Mueller Jan 25 2005, 08:09 PM

QUOTE (ws91420 @ Jan 25 2005, 06:47 PM)
I was watching a special on the development of the V-Rod and heard that the engine was developed jointly by HD and Porsche and was even tested on dynos at the Porsche facilities in Germany.. I know the Vrod has been out for awhile I just didn't catch it the first time I saw the special. A two wheel Porsche maybe, but its water cooled.

pretty common....Porsche also helped design the head on my family 20valve 5-cylinder Volvo IPB Image

Posted by: r_towle Jan 25 2005, 08:11 PM

ithink the real design from porsche was the variable valvetrain.
The reason it has not been as popular has really been the sound....just cant make it sound like a push rod harley...

I want one...my next bike will be that bike with the P motor.

Rich

Posted by: ws91420 Jan 25 2005, 08:47 PM

Willie Davidson seemed to like it. There was a lot of talk during the development about getting the Harley sound.

Posted by: r_towle Jan 25 2005, 08:55 PM

This is the future direction for Harley...Of course Willy liked it...he trying to sell them...

It does not sound like a classic harley...even with straight pipes...the valve train is just to good and to tight and timed perfectly...you will never get that old harley sound from a properly timed valve train...

Unless they F-up the timing at idle to get that sound, which could be done, but they will leave HP on the table that way...

I like it because it is about time they moved into the next century...its much faster and will be much easier to get more HP from that engine...

Stock it puts out way more than a hopped up, stroked version of the original engine...

But the appeal is to guys like us who will buy a harley finally because they have fixed the one big issue.

Right now I have a nice big BMW water cooled motor that can still take a Harley, though not a v-rod.

Rich

Posted by: StratPlayer Jan 25 2005, 09:01 PM

They also had a lot to do with the EVO 1340 20 years ago

Posted by: soloracer Jan 26 2005, 12:31 AM

I liked it so much that I bought the company....well a small piece of it anyway. I bought a 2003 V-Rod in the two tone black and silver. I first heard about it at a Porsche club meeting and after seeing one was blown away by the styling. I ended up with mine by justifying the cost with things like "It's a 100th anniversary model and that is the only year you can get black and silver from the factory", "Harleys don't depreciate like other bikes", "It's only $300 per month", and other lies that are probably too embarassing to admit IPB Image I've only put 100 miles on it but look forward to many more this summer.

Posted by: soloracer Jan 26 2005, 12:34 AM

As for the sound it's pretty quiet - however I haven't opened it up past 4000 rpm yet either and I have been told the bike makes very little power below 5000 rpm. I was told that V-Mod pipes sounded best so I got a set. They are basically stock pipes with the baffles cut out and then repacked. The ECU will have to be reprogrammed when they get installed as they will make you run a little lean. I still have to finish breaking the bike in before I have them installed.

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Jan 26 2005, 10:42 AM

Didn't know about the Volvo cylinder head. Interesting...

Porsche Engineering Services (PES) apparently did a LOT of work and design for the last Ford F150 pickup -- the first "aero" one. Never recognized it before, but now the back windows on F150s and F250s have a certain "Porsche" look, as do the front fenders. The design ethic matches the Chinese mass production car Porsche designed some years ago. I'd love to learn what, exactly, Porsche did on the 150.

PES did the Airbus cockpit redesign, a forklift, and more -- but the car stuff is the most interesting to me. I'd really love to learn more of PES's projects for other manufacturers. Obviously, they have to keep it quiet, but little bits of the story certainly get out (like the Volvo).

Posted by: rdauenhauer Jan 26 2005, 10:54 AM

To each his own. IPB Image Would I buy a bike because it has some tenuous tie to Porsche? Not unless it already had some other benifit that I would otherwise be considering it IE: COST, POWER, SPEED, HANDELING, BRAKEING. All of which are readily available on bikes which cost .5 as much (or less) & would beat out the v-rod in a straight up comparion in most if not all of those catagories.
Oh, resale value ...who cares if your spending .5 as much! Use it and Enjoy it.
Last styling ...well ill agree the Rod is more to my liking to previous HD's but if all your after from a MC is styling none of the points I made earlier your gonna care about. IPB Image

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jan 26 2005, 11:07 AM

What does the V-rod gain from having the motor massaged by Porsche? Reliability, Horsepower, Torque. No leaks.
Plus that virtual road (dyno test) that was run on the motor to prove it could run with the big dogs any day anywhere. How many times did it fail before them Germans had breathed on almost every part of the motor?

Posted by: URY914 Jan 26 2005, 11:16 AM

Does the V-rod come with some cool Porsche Design sunglasses?

If you get a V-rod do you get a Porsche crest tatoo on your arm?

Does it come with a cup holder?

Just thought I'd ask...

Posted by: Randal Jan 26 2005, 11:28 AM

QUOTE
and heard that the engine was developed jointly by HD and Porsche

This isn't a new collaboration. 25 years ago, when I was still working at SRI International, Porsche was helping Harley with engines.

Posted by: Cloudbuster Jan 26 2005, 11:29 AM

The V-Rod roots come from Harley's Superbike effort. Considering that HD probably had the most finanicial resources available than any other m/c maker (Honda excluded, they do cars), their efforts in AMA Superbike sucked up a storm. 3 podiums in 5 years? They called it a 'learning experience'. What HD gained by sending the V-Rod to Porsches was a worthwhile water cooled motor. Plus the distances involved avoided old-school interference which would have resulted in useless compromises.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jan 26 2005, 11:46 AM

Porsche does a LOT of design work for companies that might not ever mention it. They did a motor for Studebaker in the 50s, and I've read they had a long term relationship with Yamaha (who then did the SHO motor for Ford). Lotsa intermingling out there. A few years back (well, OK, maybe 20+), someone from Porsche mentioned they make more money from consulting than from the sale of cars. The Cap'n

Posted by: jfort Jan 26 2005, 02:48 PM

I've always found interesting the analogy between Porsche and HD -- introduction of a water cooled engine followed by the debate as to whether it is the real thing or not. I own a 99 FXDWG that has been modified. The torque, the power and the sound are wonderful. I want to like the new HD, but the torque is not there at the low end. It is fast, but the revs need to be kept up or there is nothing there. And the sound...... Part of the HD experience, just as with the old 911's or the 914's is the sound. The new HD doesn't have it. Things progress, but they don't always get better. Surely, members of this forum understand that.

Posted by: skline Jan 26 2005, 04:06 PM

Next year you will be able to buy a hot rod Ford Pickup with the V-Rod logo on the side. It will be red or Yellow kind of like the black Harley version now. What a gimmick.

Posted by: xsboost90 Jan 26 2005, 04:23 PM

yeah i caught that same show the other day i never knew of porsches involvement. My dad works at a harley shop and most are not into the v-rod but im guessing thats much like the 911 crowd not liking the water pumpers cuz its not a "real" porsche- its all about progression man. IPB Image

Posted by: ws91420 Jan 26 2005, 04:30 PM

Was talking to the guys at the local HD shop and I noticed the reg HD had FI. I asked about that and they said by 2008 all of them would be FI to help meet fed emmission standards. The V-Rod was not ment to replace any of the current HD just something to draw in a new type of mc buyer.

Posted by: iiibdsiil Jan 26 2005, 05:35 PM

Hmmm....

Harleys are known for breaking down... so are Porsches.

Harleys leak oil... so do Porsches.

What other evidence do we have that makes perfect sense now?

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 26 2005, 05:49 PM

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jan 26 2005, 12:07 PM)
What does the V-rod gain from having the motor massaged by Porsche? ... No leaks.

when did *that* start !?

i used to drive past Harley's facility in York, PA about once a month; the Region's newsletter was printed just down the road from them ...

Posted by: ws91420 Jan 26 2005, 06:31 PM

Actually the old HD were made to leak. They squirted oil on to the chain from the crank to the trans. I think this was the AMF days and prior.

Posted by: soloracer Jan 26 2005, 06:45 PM

QUOTE (xsboost90 @ Jan 26 2005, 02:23 PM)
yeah i caught that same show the other day i never knew of porsches involvement. My dad works at a harley shop and most are not into the v-rod but im guessing thats much like the 911 crowd not liking the water pumpers cuz its not a "real" porsche- its all about progression man. IPB Image

Hmmmm.....I have a Porsche 914 and Porsche 944 Turbo both of which some consider "not a real Porsche". Guess I was fated to buy the only Harley that "is not a real Harley".

As for the comments about the V-Rod not having the "Harley Experience" I say get over it. It's the same BS that the taildraggers have been holding over us NARP guys for years. Yeah, excessive oversteer, massive turbo lag, etc. are all part of the Porsche experience.....just like "shake, rattle and roll" is part of the "Harley Experience". At least Porsche realized that to grow they would have to evolve the 911. I suspect Harley will do the same with the rest of their line up. You can't stay stuck in the 1930's forever.

Posted by: rdauenhauer Jan 26 2005, 07:37 PM

IPB Image can you say Buell