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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Need Buying advice - 1971 914
Posted by: stevegm Sep 7 2014, 02:50 PM
I need a little advice. Any comments are appreciated.
I took a look at a very clean 1971 914. The car is completely original, down the the original fuel injection. The only exceptions are:
1. Replaced front bumper
2. Replaced front hood
3. Repaint - white over the original Gemini Blue. They also painted the door jams and trunks grey.
The car is very clean in nearly all respects. 105,000 original miles. Driven, but, garaged and clean. The car appears to have had a very minor front accident. The front bumper took 99% of the impact (I saw the original bumper). There is a very, very minor spot buy the right headlight box that tells the story, if you know what you are looking for. Even then it is hard to see. Just a little ripple.
Rust - I couldn't find any. I know what I am looking for, and spent an hour hunting. None, other than very, very minor rust on the right rocker panel. The hell hole, and longitudinals, floor pans, and trunks, are all look perfect.
Thanks,
Steve
Attached image(s)
Posted by: eric9144 Sep 7 2014, 03:05 PM
The buckle in the driver side front inner fender and the shape of the brace below it lead me to believe it took a harder hit than you think.
Posted by: dlee6204 Sep 7 2014, 03:06 PM
If it's truly rust free then it's not that bad of the deal with the only concern being the front. Do all the hood and headlight gaps line up? Replacing the hood means it wasn't that light of a hit IMO.
Posted by: stevegm Sep 7 2014, 03:11 PM
The buckle in the driver side front inner fender and the shape of the brace below it lead me to believe it took a harder hit than you think.
Eric,
Ya, I saw the inner fender well (driver's side). It looks like it was dented front within the trunk. I don't see the bend in the brace, that you mentioned. I spent a lot of time going over the front end. I couldn't find any other signs of damage other than:
A. Passenger side - That little spot in the image below.
B. Driver's side - the dent outward in the fender well.
I am just not up on the early prices. I haven't seen too many cars this clean, rust wise. And being 100% complete is attractive.
-Steve
Attached image(s)
Posted by: stevegm Sep 7 2014, 03:12 PM
If it's truly rust free then it's not that bad of the deal with the only concern being the front. Do all the hood and headlight gaps line up? Replacing the hood means it wasn't that light of a hit IMO.
All the gaps are perfect. Showroom perfect.
Posted by: Steve Sep 7 2014, 03:25 PM
The 73 and newer cars are a lot more desirable. The 73 and later are side shift, gears for windows, retractable seat belts, side vents, etc. Is it a stock tail shift?
Otherwise if your willing to live with the above and there is truly no rust, it might not be a bad deal.
Posted by: stevegm Sep 7 2014, 03:28 PM
I would take the rocker panels off and search the longs for rust. Also look under the battery area. The 73 and newer cars are a lot more desirable. The 73 and later are side shift, gears for windows, retractable seat belts, side vents, etc. Is it a stock tail shift?
Otherwise if your willing to live with the above and there is truly no rust, it might not be a bad deal.
Thanks. I will double check all of those items. Those things don't bother me. I am looking for a car to do a complete, ground up restoration on. This one is complete, and appears to be rust free. So those are attractive. But, still doesn't seem like that great of a deal.
Posted by: scotty b Sep 7 2014, 03:32 PM
rust free good quality driver for 6500.00 I'd grab it. HOWEVER, you're making , in your own words,a rush decision. These rarely go well. The car needs to be looked at by someone in the know, with no interest in the car. Preferably a PPI by a local shop. This car has a horrible repaint, that to undo, would mean completely disassembling the outside, pulling the wring harness and cleaning it, and stripping the rear trunk to bare metal ( you'll not get a good bond over that rattle can speckle paint ) Plus I have a hard time believing a 914 that lived a seemingly care free life in N.C is completely rust free, though it is possible 
Posted by: Steve Sep 7 2014, 03:33 PM
I owned pretty much every year over the years and I prefer the 73 and later cars. That might be a good deal for the east coast, but you could pay the same amount and get a 73 or later car from the west coast.
Posted by: stevegm Sep 7 2014, 03:36 PM
rust free good quality driver for 6500.00 I'd grab it. HOWEVER, you're making , in your own words,a rush decision. These rarely go well. The car needs to be looked at by someone in the know, with no interest in the car. Preferably a PPI by a local shop. This car has a horrible repaint, that to undo, would mean completely disassembling the outside, pulling the wring harness and cleaning it, and stripping the rear trunk to bare metal ( you'll not get a good bond over that rattle can speckle paint ) Plus I have a hard time believing a 914 that lived a seemingly care free life in N.C is completely rust free, though it is possible
Scotty,
Very good points. The car was originally in New Mexico. Taken to California in 1999. Brought here a couple months ago.
-Steve
Posted by: mepstein Sep 7 2014, 04:32 PM
The buckle in the driver side front inner fender and the shape of the brace below it lead me to believe it took a harder hit than you think.
Yea, that doesn't look stock. Looks like a decent car but 2x more than I would pay. Are you restoring it for yourself or to sell? If it's to sell, you will be upside down with most any car. If it's for yourself, a 73 or 74 is a nicer driver. The extra hp from the 2.0 and the side shift trans really are an improvement.
Posted by: stevegm Sep 7 2014, 04:36 PM
The buckle in the driver side front inner fender and the shape of the brace below it lead me to believe it took a harder hit than you think.
Yea, that doesn't look stock. Looks like a decent car but 2x more than I would pay. Are you restoring it for yourself or to sell? If it's to sell, you will be upside down with most any car. If it's for yourself, a 73 or 74 is a nicer driver. The extra hp from the 2.0 and the side shift trans really are an improvement.
Thanks for the comments. I would be restoring it for myself. But, as a finance professor, I don't like the idea of getting upside down in anything other than a roller coaster. Having said that, I have a disease - I want to buy every remotely nice 914 I come across. I'm still looking for rust free cars, like the ones I had in the 80s. As you know, today, rust-free is very hard to find on the east coast.
Posted by: Pursang Sep 7 2014, 04:42 PM
I would agree with Scotty b about not rushing into a decision. If your true goal is to restore to show (or similar) condition an original car then you might have a good starting point. You can always bargain the price down based on the fact that it is an earlier model and doesn't have the items pointed out as being with the 73-74 versions.
If you bought one that someone else has done the work on, it would set you back more since the 914 is becoming more collectible. Many of those out there have been modified in some degree or another and so this does have the attraction of being "mostly" original.
I would suspect that you are going to have to do some engine rebuilding and so the mileage does not matter too much. I would be hesitant to say that the car has only 105K original miles though. 205K is more likely. I bought my 1974 car in 1987 and it had 130K miles on it then.
Ultimately it comes down to what you want to spend. Regardless of the deal you make on this or any other car, you are going to find a couple of surprises. That's just the way it goes. Have fun and keep us posted on this deal, or any other, and your progress with the restoration.
Posted by: Porschef Sep 7 2014, 05:04 PM
Don't worry about the mechanicals.
Put 40, no wait, 45 $100 bills wrapped with an orange rubber band in your pocket.
Go look at it. If it checks out rust wise, go from there. If not, walk away.
It's that simple. I got lucky with my car, I wasn't savvy as far as what to look for. I just couldn't find anything blatantly wrong
Unless you're in love, really in love, keep looking.
Posted by: stevegm Sep 7 2014, 05:04 PM
I would agree with Scotty b about not rushing into a decision. If your true goal is to restore to show (or similar) condition an original car then you might have a good starting point. You can always bargain the price down based on the fact that it is an earlier model and doesn't have the items pointed out as being with the 73-74 versions.
If you bought one that someone else has done the work on, it would set you back more since the 914 is becoming more collectible. Many of those out there have been modified in some degree or another and so this does have the attraction of being "mostly" original.
I would suspect that you are going to have to do some engine rebuilding and so the mileage does not matter too much. I would be hesitant to say that the car has only 105K original miles though. 205K is more likely. I bought my 1974 car in 1987 and it had 130K miles on it then.
Ultimately it comes down to what you want to spend. Regardless of the deal you make on this or any other car, you are going to find a couple of surprises. That's just the way it goes. Have fun and keep us posted on this deal, or any other, and your progress with the restoration.
Thank you for these well-reasoned comments. After Scotty B. posted his comments, I decided to slow my roll (my wife thanks him, BTW). I think I will have Black Forest Racing go over the car. And Ockteenerfest is coming up. I am assuming there will be nice cars for sale there.
Any other comments anyone has would be greatly appreciated. I have dealt primarily with the later year cars. But, the idea of the rear-shift tranny, and other early "features" don't really bother me. I am looking to build a 99% original car. That is the most important thing to me (along with an agreeable color). Any comments from owners of early cars would also be welcome.
-Steve
Posted by: dangrouche Sep 7 2014, 05:34 PM
from you comments, I think you should wait for the next one. I think you want one that has not been in an accident nor molested. The color is something you cannot control. My current one is Delphi Green and the color has grown on me. I found it on a dealer lot, where it had been sitting for about a month. It's easy to buy one. But when you own one and need to sell, you will not recover what you paid. You will buy this one for $6500 then a better one will surface and you will have two 914s. Murphy's law. Good luck.
Posted by: mepstein Sep 7 2014, 05:41 PM
I would place a WTB on this site, be patient and see what you get. There are always really nice cars trading hands on world.
Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 7 2014, 08:40 PM
$ 6500.00? if it's rust free as you say and a new mexico, cali car that runs and drives I would grab it. The car will need a light tug on the bumper mount on the left and the inner wheel house will need to be straightened. and yes it's a big winter project to do a complete teardown and repaint but if you by a rusty car you'll be down for a couple years.
I've paid half that plus transportation cost for a roller. 
Posted by: stevegm Sep 7 2014, 08:53 PM
$ 6500.00? if it's rust free as you say and a new mexico, cali car that runs and drives I would grab it. The car will need a light tug on the bumper mount on the left and the inner wheel house will need to be straightened. and yes it's a big winter project to do a complete teardown and repaint but if you by a rusty car you'll be down for a couple years.
I've paid half that plus transportation cost for a roller.
Thanks Rick for your comments. I think it really comes down to - is it really that rust free? If so, it's probably a good deal. If not, probably a little expensive. Particularly because it is a '71. I am going to have it looked at, and put on a lift to really see if it is that rust free. I'll go from there.
Posted by: KELTY360 Sep 7 2014, 10:49 PM
Hold out for what you really want. Don't compromise when you're going to be doing a complete restoration. That's a costly process and the initial purchase price for comparable vehicles, i.e. '71 vs. '73-'74, will be inconsequential in the long run. What will be important is your commitment to the project and buying something less than your ideal may challenge that commitment.
Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 8 2014, 06:24 AM
My 2 cents - if you like it buy it. Is it going to be your everyday driver or just a weekend fun car or something in the middle? There is nothing wrong with a an early car. If you plan to make "upgrades" to it later then you need a good base to work with.
I have a 70 that over the years have added a 73 2.0L with side shift trans, replaced the fixed passenger seat with a later movable passenger seats. Then autocross bug bite me and well that is a another story of "upgrades". 
Posted by: stevegm Sep 8 2014, 12:46 PM
My 2 cents - if you like it buy it. Is it going to be your everyday driver or just a weekend fun car or something in the middle? There is nothing wrong with a an early car. If you plan to make "upgrades" to it later then you need a good base to work with.
I have a 70 that over the years have added a 73 2.0L with side shift trans, replaced the fixed passenger seat with a later movable passenger seats. Then autocross bug bite me and well that is a another story of "upgrades".
Something in the middle. The more I think about it, it would be a shame to disassemble it for a couple years doing a complete restoration, when it could be driven while I worked on it. I might use it as a driver, while I restore another one.
Posted by: mepstein Sep 8 2014, 12:49 PM
My 2 cents - if you like it buy it. Is it going to be your everyday driver or just a weekend fun car or something in the middle? There is nothing wrong with a an early car. If you plan to make "upgrades" to it later then you need a good base to work with.
I have a 70 that over the years have added a 73 2.0L with side shift trans, replaced the fixed passenger seat with a later movable passenger seats. Then autocross bug bite me and well that is a another story of "upgrades".
Something in the middle. The more I think about it, it would be a shame to disassemble it for a couple years doing a complete restoration, when it could be driven while I worked on it. I might use it as a driver, while I restore another one.
Having a driver Definately helps to scratch the itch durring a long restoration.
Posted by: stevegm Sep 8 2014, 01:14 PM
My 2 cents - if you like it buy it. Is it going to be your everyday driver or just a weekend fun car or something in the middle? There is nothing wrong with a an early car. If you plan to make "upgrades" to it later then you need a good base to work with.
I have a 70 that over the years have added a 73 2.0L with side shift trans, replaced the fixed passenger seat with a later movable passenger seats. Then autocross bug bite me and well that is a another story of "upgrades".
Something in the middle. The more I think about it, it would be a shame to disassemble it for a couple years doing a complete restoration, when it could be driven while I worked on it. I might use it as a driver, while I restore another one.
Having a driver Definately helps to scratch the itch durring a long restoration.
Ya, that is what I am thinking. Ultimately I'd like an early car, as well as a 73/74, in addition to the '75 I am restoring. Having a car to drive now would be nice. As you know, the projects are so long. We will wait and see what it looks like on a lift.
Posted by: gms Sep 8 2014, 01:59 PM
I would pass at $6500, it looks like it has had work done in the front and there is a patch in the back of the trunk. I think you could do better for that price.
Who knows what is under the white paint job
Posted by: gms Sep 8 2014, 02:06 PM
this
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1579971
might be a better deal
Posted by: Cuda911 Sep 8 2014, 07:33 PM
I'd like to see more pix of the body, condition of seals, etc. Just based on what's posted here, I don't think $6500 is crazy. If you can get it at $5500, I'd say it was a very good deal. Again, I do qualify this, since there's a lot more about the car that I'd like to know and see.
Posted by: stevegm Sep 10 2014, 09:36 PM
Aaaaa
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