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Posted by: Downerman Sep 17 2014, 04:57 PM

OK, OBVIOUSLY no negative to the calipers. Here's the deal..... removed the 911 rear calipers (well for that matter the entire swing arms) but I just let the brake fluid lines hang and drain into jars. Finally got my swing arms mods done and now putting on the new calipers. Filled the brake resevoir up and had all 4 wheels off the car. Used my handy dandy brake sucker pump and had fluid running to all four bleeders on the rear (2 each for a caliper) and then did the fronts. Had to refill a couple of times because I was pulling some darker fluid until it was clear. Went into the cab and hit the breaks. Nothing.... I mean NADA. Pumped like a 100 times to no avail.

RE-DID the entire process again. NADA and I mean nothing. So, I'm wondering if my master has gone south in this time line?? and why?? Seems the only logical answer at this point. Anyone have any ideas?

Dave

Posted by: wndsrfr Sep 17 2014, 05:06 PM

QUOTE(Downerman @ Sep 17 2014, 02:57 PM)

Posted by: Mblizzard Sep 17 2014, 05:08 PM

If you go to the old open the bleeder and pump the pedal with no fluid movement, I would say it is the master cylinder.

Was the system open for any amount of time?

Posted by: Downerman Sep 17 2014, 05:23 PM

Yes, maybe 3-4 weeks.

Dave

QUOTE(Mblizzard @ Sep 17 2014, 04:08 PM)

Posted by: Downerman Sep 17 2014, 05:31 PM

Found this.... same issue as mine using a "Sucker" bleeder.




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Posted by: 76-914 Sep 17 2014, 05:31 PM

Yep, bench bled time.

Posted by: Downerman Sep 17 2014, 05:35 PM

Ok, bench bleed time. I've read some posts that have me so confussed it's not even funny. Is there a simple way to do this while the MC is in the car?


Dave

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Sep 17 2014, 05:43 PM

Just crack the lines at the MC. Make sure there is fluid.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Sep 17 2014, 05:52 PM

QUOTE(Downerman @ Sep 17 2014, 07:35 PM)

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Sep 17 2014, 06:19 PM

If the system was dry for 3 to 4 weeks, the seals in the MC might have shrunk.

Posted by: Tbrown4x4 Sep 17 2014, 07:36 PM

If the M/C is old, sometimes rust and dirt settle to the bottom of the bore and when you bleed the brakes the cup seals can be damaged. If you bleed the brakes by pushing on the pedal, the cups are pushed past their normal range of travel and can run over this junk and tear the seals. Pressure bleeding is best, but not as simple.

The low position of the master cylinder in the 914 makes it harder to rid the system of air. Remember to always bleed the caliper farthest away from the M/C first, then continue in order to the closest caliper. Then do it again.

Posted by: Downerman Sep 17 2014, 07:46 PM

Thanks everyone for the info. Yeah I started with Passenger rear, drivers rear, passenger front and drivers front. Bottom line though is I have brake fluid for days coming out clear and bubble free from every bleeder. Just NADA at the peddle. I have been scrambling to try and find a method of bleeding the master cylinder but nothing makes sense. If I don't have ANY pressure in the peddle will simply losening the nuts on the MC release the air? How could it if there's no pressure?

I'm losing my mind on this simple issue.

Dave

QUOTE(Tbrown4x4 @ Sep 17 2014, 06:36 PM)

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Sep 17 2014, 07:59 PM

By loosening the outlines on the MC and letting it gravity feed you will fill the MC with fluid. I use a pressure bleader and do the same thing starting with the MC and then each of the calipers one at a time until no more air comes out, filling the resevore often. Gravity can be used to slowly blead most of the air and then start pumping. Otherwise your MC is bad!

Posted by: Downerman Sep 17 2014, 08:31 PM

Ok Jeff, I will try this in the morning. Thanks again. BTW.... born and raised in Stockton. My first Porsche was a 72 914 in 1977. Used to know all those back roads/levee's from Highway 4 to Highway 12. I remember when Discovery Bay was built in the middle of a asparagus field.... dang, starting to sound like my grandfather.

Dave

QUOTE(Jeffs9146 @ Sep 17 2014, 06:59 PM)

Posted by: Downerman Sep 22 2014, 10:38 AM

For those who care to know..... I bled the M/C to no avail. Purchased a new M/C and same issue. FINALLY listened to what Eric and PMB had said about my calipers being horizontal (Had to re-clock the hub housing because I took out 3/4" for 7" Fuchs to fit the car. Well, before I did anything I called the wife out and did the old fashion method of bleeding. Solid fluid at each caliper just like before but nothing at the pedal. So then the next step was to unbolt the rear calipers and hold them vertically and do it all over again. Sure as )*&)! air was released and the pedal finally had some pressure. Within 10 minutes it was hard as a rock.

It amazes me sometimes how my brain works. Thought that solid brake fluid at the bleeders was the defining mark. Finally my stubborn ways gave way to listening to a PROFESSIONAL and guess what? He was right.


Dave

Posted by: Dave_Darling Sep 22 2014, 04:22 PM

Wait, what??? The calipers were not in the regular orientation, with the bleeder valve on top? You had them laying down or something? (Sorry, I can't really picture what you're talking about!)

We've had people trying to bleed brakes from a bleeder on the bottom of the caliper (some had two bleeders; sometimes people swapped left and right calipers) and you will never EVER get a good pedal that way.

--DD

Posted by: Downerman Sep 22 2014, 06:21 PM

I have a great pedal right now. Eric didn't think that was an issue either. My machine shop guy has a race car and his calipers are laying flat as well. Just talked to him and he was like "of course you have to stand them up to bleed them".

It's not an issue.


Dave

Posted by: rgalla9146 Sep 22 2014, 06:43 PM

......... you would have had your solution much sooner if you mentioned your calipers were at the south pole.
oh..... and now the car has "brakes" not "breaks"

Posted by: Downerman Sep 22 2014, 06:55 PM

You are correct sir!!! As I said above, my logic of using the suction brake bleeder and having no air was flawed. Didn't even dawn on me to mention the calipers laying horizontal. Live and learn I guess. Thanks everyone, appreciate everyone's comments.

Dave

Posted by: ClayPerrine Sep 23 2014, 06:07 AM

I had the same issue on my old Jeep truck. I had to replace the front calipers, and FLAPS could only get two left calipers. Considering I needed to get the truck back on the road, I bought the two lefts. So to bleed the right caliper, I have to take it off, put a block of wood in between the pads, and flip it over. It works fine, but it is a pain in the ass to bleed.

Glad you found it. Now go

Posted by: 9146986 Sep 23 2014, 07:41 AM

Pressure bleeding is the only way to go.

Here's what I posted back in Mar 05.

Get a spare cap for the brake fluid reservoir.
Get a tire valve & stem.
Drill a hole in the center of the reservoir cap, the same size as the hole in a wheel (or measure the narrow part of the tire valve).
Pull the valve stem through the hole.
Remove the plastic screen in the reservoir.
Fill the brake reservoir completely, not to the fill line, all the way full to the bottom of the tube that holds the plastic screen.
Put on your new modified pressure bleeder cap.
Drain your air tank to 10 psi, for cheaper compressors setting the regulator at 10 psi may not work. If you put too much pressure in the system, you'll blow off the blue lines that connect the supply lines to the reservoir, or worse.
Take a clip on air chuck and clip it on your new pressure bleeder cap.
Bleed the brakes, starting at the furthest bleeder from the master cyl, and finish at the bleeder nearest the master cyl.
Bleeding sequence (LR-RR-LF-RF)
Pump the pedal hard about ten times and repeat the procedure.
Do not get brake fluid on painted surfaces it will ruin them.
If the pressure bleeder cap retains pressure, bleed it down before taking it off the reservoir.
This works very well, and makes it a one person job.
Replace brake fluid every two years.
Properly discard used brake fluid.

Posted by: kkid Sep 23 2014, 10:44 AM

QUOTE(9146986 @ Sep 23 2014, 06:41 AM)

Posted by: Downerman Sep 23 2014, 11:12 AM

Nice..... so what do you think the difference is between pressure and suction? I mean that as a legitimate question not a defiant one. As I said, I had no bubbles but solid break fluid doing the suction method but no pedal. Problem was, and please don't quote me because I don't know the actual names but apparently the "Chambers" inside the caliper had air that would have normally risen to the bleeder but because I was horizontal, well, it never happened.


I do like this idea though.

Dave

Posted by: Tbrown4x4 Sep 28 2014, 10:54 AM

So....Any luck?

I'm also a fan of pressure bleeding, but not everyone has access to the equipment. I have what looks like a pump sprayer with a gauge and adapter I used at BMW. The adapter also fits some Volvos.

On a side note, I was just helping my son bleed the clutch system on his Mazda truck. Fluid was coming out and the level in the reservoir was going down, but no pedal. I had him pull the clutch master and the corrosion in the bore was keeping the piston from returning all the way out. New master and it bled like a champ.