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Posted by: brooks944 Sep 26 2014, 10:21 AM

Bought a new to me 914 in April and had issues ever since. Current one is it is very hard to start, my mechanic is using starter fluid to get it going. Cold start valve is disconnected and no wiring to support it, won't stay running without keeping the gas peddle pushed some, etc. He recommends changing to carbs, and with the limited paperwork I got with the car, the mechanic that rebuilt the engine from 1.8 to 2.2L recommended the same. What do you guys recommend, parts for the FI are much more than dual carbs and then I'll have to pay for all the troubleshooting with the FI.

If you recommend carbs, where is the best place to buy and what would you recommend for the modified 2.2L?

Thanks, I need the help!

Rick

Posted by: colingreene Sep 26 2014, 10:25 AM

I like weber carbs. they have good support and are easy enough to find parts for.

Posted by: PotterPorsche Sep 26 2014, 10:48 AM

if you can find 40 dellortos those would be my pick , if not 44 webers with smaller venturi's. Kinda hard to determine without knowing the specs on the engine. Did they perform any upgrades to the cam when they increased displacement.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Sep 26 2014, 10:54 AM

You might get better answers if you were more clear with regard to the year, the engine, and the type if FI you have. There are 2 kinds, and there are some variations within the 2 types. Any meaningful answers you get will be based on that basic information. Switching to carbs can often be as expensive (or even more) than fixing the FI.

The Cap'n

Posted by: brooks944 Sep 26 2014, 11:03 AM

Thanks for the replies so far. My car is a 75 so I guess it's the D FI. It's an original 1.8. I''ll have to check what paperwork I have to see if there is any mention of cam work.

Posted by: The Cabinetmaker Sep 26 2014, 11:15 AM

Ditch your mechanic, not the fi.

Posted by: brooks944 Sep 26 2014, 11:17 AM

I found where the engine is pushed out to 2l, not 2.2 as I posted earlier. There are no records on a cam change, but there is a part listing for a 'PEC' 96mm. What is that?

Posted by: stugray Sep 26 2014, 11:18 AM

I am positive that you could find a complete D-Jet FI system for less than a set of new dual carbs.

Did you search the classified FS/FT threads yet?

HINT: I have more than one complete FI system for sale.

Posted by: Racer Chris Sep 26 2014, 11:23 AM

96mm piston and cylinder set.
That makes the engine 1911 cc unless the crankshaft was also changed.
Original FI on the 1.8L is L-Jet.
L-Jet is very sensitive to vacuum leaks. They must be completely eliminated for the system to work properly.
Keep the FI and we'll help you get it working.
Or find a mechanic who understands how that FI system functions.

Posted by: brooks944 Sep 26 2014, 11:47 AM

Thanks Racer Chris, there is a record for a 71mm crank shaft. So what does that equate to?

Posted by: Racer Chris Sep 26 2014, 12:10 PM

2056 cc

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 26 2014, 01:16 PM

Good answers but no one asked about the cam. If the cam is oem grind don't even consider carbs. Chris is right on. Should be LJet but shoot some pic's. Might have been changed to DJet. OH yeah, ditch the mechanic. Real 914 mechanics are as rare as Hen's Teeth. All the answers are here if you can turn a wrench. Just ask.

Posted by: brooks944 Sep 26 2014, 01:57 PM

No records on a cam change, so as far as I know it's stock. The car is with my mechanic so I can't shot pics, but based on the air cleaner and pics I've seen it looks to be stock 1.8 FI. With all the problems with the existing FI, what are the issues associated with switching to carbs?

Thanks

Posted by: dknechtly Sep 26 2014, 02:49 PM

Yes, stick with the FI unless it's got a wild cam. Once you understand how the FI works, you can trouble shoot through it. There's a lot of good info here. BTW, the cold start valve only squirts some gas in at the beginning, once the engine is going, it's all the injectors.

Posted by: Java2570 Sep 26 2014, 03:07 PM

The L Jet is a good FI system, read up on it and find out if all your components are correct and work right.
Since your engine has been changed to 2056cc, you'll do well to get an air fuel meter and tune your mixture. A lot of times, that increase in displacement will make it necessary to tweak your mixture a bit to get the proper tuning. Don't give up on a setup you already have, learn how it works and then try to make it work like it should. You're not going to find a ton of mechanics that have experience on these setups so it's a good idea to learn to do it yourself.....and have fun doing it!

Posted by: Old Yella Sep 26 2014, 03:23 PM

Post some pics of the engine.

Posted by: brooks944 Sep 26 2014, 03:25 PM

Thanks guys. Apparently there are issues with the voltage going to the injectors, wiring is very suspect with many of the showing wire through the insulation. Recommendations?

Posted by: Dave_Darling Sep 26 2014, 03:34 PM

There are resistors hanging off the battery tray; they are there specifically to drop the voltage going to the injectors. So what your mechanic is seeing might be correct.

If the wiring is messed up, fix it! As I told you on the Bird Board, Jeff Bowlsby does amazing work. Even if he doesn't deal with L-jet harnesses, he can at least talk you through some of what is involved.

Vacuum leaks, valve adjust, ignition system function. All are critical, and will mess up a carb setup just as much as an L-jet setup. So check those things as well.

--DD

Posted by: mepstein Sep 26 2014, 03:36 PM

My buddy has all the FI from my '75. All in decent condition. Pm me if you want his contact info. I'm pretty sure wire harness is still in good shape.

Posted by: brooks944 Sep 26 2014, 04:53 PM

Valves have been adjusted, new points, etc. vacuum leaks? But I am still worried about the wiring!

Posted by: timothy_nd28 Sep 26 2014, 05:37 PM

It's not cold enough for the cold start valve to be energized. Never mind about the wiring for that circuit at the moment. Keep the Ljet (assuming you have a stock cam) and get the car back home. I can walk you thru every step to bring this back to life. Or tell your mechanic to follow this thread.

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 26 2014, 05:46 PM

Post some pictures. Lots of them. Ask questions. When you're done expect to have near $800, prob more, into a functioning carb package. That's parts only. 0 for any work you farm out. I would stop spraying ether into the engine.

Posted by: KELTY360 Sep 26 2014, 06:00 PM

This is what happened back in the day. A mechanic who didn't know squat about FI and wasn't interested in learning recommends to the customer that they sh*tcan the FI and convert to carbs. You're lucky because your car still has the components in place and there are people here who can walk you, or a mechanic, through the process of sorting it out. In the end you'll have a better running, more reliable 914 if you stick with the FI. There is a really good reason why there's been a deafening silence of those who think you should dump the FI and go to carbs.

If you're worried about the wiring, take advantage of the offers you've gotten for a replacement harness.

Posted by: RenoRoger Sep 26 2014, 09:41 PM

I want to second the many responses recommending staying with FI. I have been running a 1976 912E with L-jet FI for the last 3 years. The only problems I have had was a failed coil, a failing Pertronix breakerless ignition plus a new set of Bosch ignition points that failed after 300 miles. None of it FI related.

Posted by: funk Sep 26 2014, 10:44 PM

look to auto Atlanta.com for a little known factory part they call hot fuel injection set up kit not sure if its for L jet maybe they will have answer for you??ebay has a djet for 300 right now??

Posted by: mapguy Sep 26 2014, 11:43 PM

I am going through a donor 1.8 L-Jet right now as a short-term runner until I can rebuild my original 2.0 D-Jet.

As mentioned, the resistor pack could be bad or have a broken wire or 2. This engine I'm working on now has 2 wires broken there and I suspect the previous owner had an experience similar to yours and that's why the car was parked. It works for me, as I got a cheap used engine with good compression The resistor pack looks like this:

http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mb_Qmt6XkTzmWnSqTzJRAVg.jpg

As many have said, there is a ton of information on this site and others about these systems. They were used on many, many european cars in the 70s and 80s.

If you can assume that the cam is stock FI cam, and you have the FI on there already, it makes sense to try and iron the L-Jet out, no?

Posted by: Dave_Darling Sep 27 2014, 10:42 AM

The one that I know of is a particular CHT and particular MPS that AA claimed would "unlock the power" in the FI system. It probably just fattened the mixture a little. The MPS isn't an L-jet part at all, so the kit which is "specially matched" won't work on an L-jet car.

--DD

Posted by: lsintampa Sep 27 2014, 11:06 AM

IDK, I'd keep the FI were it me. That seems to be the majority case.

Add it up, new harness - clean up the injectors (if needed) or drop the motor, replace the cam, add carbs..

Seems like you like the motor - (another option would be just to rebuild / replace it)..

IMHO, I think you need to take the majority vote here and repair the FI...

Posted by: brooks944 Sep 27 2014, 12:34 PM

Thanks guys for everyone's responses. I'm trying to contact member mrfourteen for his used system and stay with the FI. If anyone has a harness for a l-jet, please let me know.

BTW, went up to Townsend today to see the 914's. Man what a great collection, hope to have my car there next year.

Posted by: The Cabinetmaker Sep 27 2014, 12:52 PM

I have one l jet computer harness and that's all. Don't even know where it came from.
I'd be happy to send it to a good home.

Posted by: brooks944 Sep 27 2014, 01:08 PM

Thanks cabinetmaker. I hope mine is a good home. Please PM me for details.

Rick

Posted by: messix Sep 27 2014, 01:46 PM

there are 2 different L-jet set ups the '75 one uses a different air valve sensor and the harness in different for that also. I think the 75 Is a 7 pin and the 74 is a 5 pin [not sure about the number of pins so those that have the fact please post up].

Posted by: messix Sep 27 2014, 01:55 PM

read this and show it to your wrench!

this is for the 912E but the basic operation and components are the same.

http://www.bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zTN_Man08.pdf

Posted by: messix Sep 27 2014, 02:13 PM

vw factory manual http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zTN_Man12.pdf

Posted by: brooks944 Sep 27 2014, 02:58 PM

Thanks, saved the files to show my mechanic

Posted by: messix Sep 27 2014, 03:02 PM

I have a 1.8 or 1911cc not sure... and I can attest to the stock FI working well and giving very good economy and performance, I have run road trips at 70-80 mph and achieved 28-32 mpg at that speed with the roof off! just about as good as modern cars.

Posted by: The Cabinetmaker Sep 27 2014, 04:55 PM

I can't get the photo to upload on my phone.

Is this an l jet harness?

Posted by: The Cabinetmaker Sep 27 2014, 05:02 PM

Hope this works


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: The Cabinetmaker Sep 27 2014, 05:05 PM

another



Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: struckn Sep 27 2014, 05:47 PM

One point of clearification not mentioned is, to install a cam for carb you will have to change the Fuel Pump to a lower pressure and drop the engine to disassemble, and split the case,which could be very expensive. Some other things would be needed as well such as Throttle cable, Fuel lines, etc.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Sep 28 2014, 10:49 AM

Looks like it. I'm not sure if it's a 914 L-jet harness, but the injector connectors definitely look like L-jet.

--DD