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Posted by: Beeliner Oct 21 2014, 05:54 PM

I purchased a 1975 914 that is very original, except for the change of color.

This is my fifth one. I bought three new in the seventies, and two recently.

The problem is that I will be mostly supplying the money, and not the expertise... My mechanic is factory trained and was drooling over the opportunity. He just finished a Boxster rebuild over the weekend.

Here is a picture of the car. It recently had a rustectomy and new paint. The engine and car is now stock all the way, original FI is still there.

It is a DD.

I know the car will have to be strengthened, sway bars added, and all of that...

But is this an insane project when one is not a mechanic? I don't want flared fenders, so no major exterior cosmetics are to be done... Is $9k for motor and parts reasonable? My mechanic wants to rebuild the engine, so one needing work is what we are looking for.


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Posted by: carr914 Oct 21 2014, 06:20 PM

It all depends on how much money you have! To do it right you are talking between $12k-$20k

Posted by: GeorgeRud Oct 21 2014, 06:20 PM

I doubt that you can do a conversion for $9000 if a six cylinder engine needs rebuilding. There are several threads on conversion parts that are needed and current expected prices.

It is a fun and rewarding project to undertake, but not inexpensive. On my conversion, the engine rebuild alone was over $12,000 when it was finished (though it was done as properly as it can be without shortcuts). Buying a converted -6 that someone else built is the most economical choice, but you miss the fun!

Posted by: earossi Oct 21 2014, 06:42 PM

Converting to a six is not a $9000 project. I know because I am in the middle of doing one. I sourced a 3.2 motor with 75k miles on it......for $7500. If I were to rebuild it, I could easily spend another $10k on the motor alone. Then there are the conversion "accessories". An oil tank for $800, a front engine mount, chassis stiffening to handle the torque, headers will cost you $700 or much more if you insist on heat exchangers.

You would stand some chance of doing such a project.....if your budget is twice what you have stated. As George suggested, the most cost effective way to do such a project is to purchase a project that has already been completed.

Sorry to throw water on your desire to do a conversion.

Posted by: worn Oct 21 2014, 07:08 PM

I try to spend only about $500 per month. It has been more than two years, but I intend to repaint and reweld as well. I dropped 7 grand on the engine and 911 suspension, You didn't mention the 5 lug conversion that seems a logical partner. That adds cost. If the mechanic "wants" to rebuild an engine, perhaps he will give you a deal on the chance to fulfill that dream. MAybe a discount or ceiling price less parts.

Good luck. I can hardly wait to get mine back on the ground with engine. I "want" to weld an oil tank, so there are so many motivations besides money. If you stretch it out you trade something else for the six.

Posted by: patssle Oct 21 2014, 07:13 PM

I had zero car experience before I bought my 914. Now I've completed a 914-6 conversion all by myself (well my dad helped too on some aspects). There are countless threads and articles full of advice and previously converted cars on 914world and Pelican that document what you need to do.

It is fun and rewarding to build and pure bliss to drive everyday to work. If you can resolve to the fact that it will cost 10k-20k and are okay with that - then it's a no brainer. Also factor in time - it takes some people months and some years...just depends on your life.

Here's my cost thread....ignoring my really cheap motor and carbs: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=242910&hl=

Posted by: Steve Oct 21 2014, 07:15 PM

Do your homework.... It's a slippery slope....
Compare the motor with the car it came out of. You should at a minimum, match the brakes to the motor as well as suspension and tires. My first six conversion in a 914 was a 2.7. I also did a 5 lug conversion and went with bigger brakes at the same time. I still had throttle induced over-steer from the motor so i flared the rear fenders for bigger tires. I was very happy with the setup, but the 2.7 was more expensive to overhaul than a 3.2 from a wrecking yard, so i upgraded to a 3.2. For the street I was not happy with the 914/901 gearing with the 3.2, so i replaced the 914 trans with a 915 trans that matched my motor. I will probably upgrade to a 3.6 next, but at least all the other components should be fine.

Posted by: Beeliner Oct 21 2014, 07:16 PM

It is always better to throw water while the fire is still small....

I was thinking parts budget of $9,000. Labor additional...

But parts sound as if they are well north of $9k, correct?

Posted by: Mark Henry Oct 21 2014, 07:39 PM

$9K in parts can be done but it's a lot of scrounging. It's also a big job so the labour time will be large. Also some parts may seem like a bargain, but are not the best solution. You gets what you pays for.
Then there's the other stuff...brakes, 5 bolt conversion, suspension.... cost creeps up fast.
I'm at least $10+K in (don't really want to add up the bills) and I do everything myself, trade parts, etc. and I still have to buy at least $1000 worth of hoses etc

My bet getting someone else to turn wrenches you will be damn close to $20K
If you're still interested I'd do a lot of research before you jump in.

BTW the cheapest and fastest route is to sell your /4 and buy a /6 conversion that has already been done and sorted.

Posted by: McMark Oct 21 2014, 08:16 PM

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Posted by: Cairo94507 Oct 21 2014, 08:41 PM

That cars looks nice. I would just backdate the bumpers and drive it if the engine is good. Then I would collect parts as you can afford them and once you have most do the conversion.

Posted by: Chris914n6 Oct 21 2014, 09:32 PM

There are dozens of threads where too much was undertaken all at once and the car has rusted to the jack stands.

I recommend starting with weekend projects: 914 specific wheels and sticky tires. add the sway bars. find and install the 5 lug. Nicer stereo or fresh rubber or other little things that make the car a better DD.
Then when there's nothing left and you've met some people test drive a -6. Decide if you need the extra power to enjoy the car. Then decide if you REALLY need it to be a Porsche -6 because other swaps are 2x-5x cheaper to do.

Posted by: McMark Oct 21 2014, 09:45 PM

Cheaper, but far more work. Six conversions are well documented and plenty of ready to run parts out there.


I ended up with a 2.4 six while ago. A while later I picked up an oil tank (two actually). More recently I've collected most of the parts for the steering column conversion. Next will be 911 axle components for a 'true' five lug conversion. The point is that I agree with the others. I still drive my car almost every day, but I have a pile of parts ready to go. I won't pull the car off the road until I have everything ready to go. Otherwise it'll end up on jackstands like my other two cars.

Posted by: Larmo63 Oct 21 2014, 10:10 PM

Get rid of those bumpers first. Then do a five lug conversion. THEN think about the six conversion….IMHO

Posted by: RobW Oct 21 2014, 10:14 PM

Sell yours and buy one that is done. At least while you still can.

Posted by: thelogo Oct 21 2014, 10:26 PM

Yeh no disrespect to all you /6 guys who built these streetlegal
Pure race type cars

But the logical standpoint for a person without the " 914 sickness

Is to buy a already running and driveing , 6 2.7 crackle high revver

Or larger displacement . I would think



So it spares you all the labor cost
Car on jack stand time
And you just add gas and turn the key


This is how I got my 1.7 car
Only thing not functional was the horn.



I'm betting it would be better and faster and I know way cheaper to sell the car and buy a driving 6 .


Only con is you don't know the quality or workman ship that went into it.
But inspect thoroughly.

Posted by: SLITS Oct 22 2014, 09:12 AM

WOW!!

$1000 for wiring a /6 into a /4 harness ... the hourly rate must be in the $500+ area.

Posted by: Mark Henry Oct 22 2014, 09:22 AM

I'm doing a harness and it's way more than a couple hours work if you're doing a nice job...it does say approximate. I'm guessing anything you think is high in Mark's estimate will be used for the unexpected when you're in there. I think he's close to a no surprises estimate with that.

If paying for a /6 I would only consider a 3.0 or 3.2, for you I'd go with the 3.2 with stock injection. A smaller /6 can be cheaper but they have their pitfalls, I'd want one with a known history.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Oct 22 2014, 11:18 AM

First of all, yes you are crazy. But you like 914s, so that was already evident.

Next, note that not all of the "conversion stuff" has to be done in every instance. For example, the small-displacement and lower-powered Sixes may not need an oil cooler setup, which takes a lot of $$ out of the parts budget. The five-lug setup is not a requirement, though it is awfully nice to have. A chassis in good shape should not need additional strengthening if the power isn't hugely increased. A local shop can probably make decent headers for not much $$, which drops the heat exchanger cost out of it. And so on.

I know of a car that was done for a total parts budget of $7000. It's still a cool driver, but it is not "all that it could be". Some of the improvements could be made later on after the car is driving. Note that this was an exceptional case, though. The engine in particular was acquired quite cheaply (an original Six motor or a 2.0 911T motor for $1500 is a screaming deal!), but the rest of the parts that were used were bought for the then-current going rates.

Still, if I were going to do a conversion, I'd be doing a lot of the "extras". And I'd be paying way over $7K for the parts.

--DD

Posted by: Racer Chris Oct 22 2014, 11:26 AM

I have a 2.2L under a workbench here that supposedly has S cams, belongs to a customer in NJ.
He's looking to sell it.
Needs induction, ignition and exhaust.

Posted by: patssle Oct 22 2014, 11:28 AM

I'm running 4 lugs and stock brakes with my 3.0L...so far no problems. Still stops great. I did plenty of research and it seems the stock brakes are fine - some are even using them on the track with their 6 motors.

I like my Mahles and see no reason to "upgrade" to 5 lug for 99% street driving.

Posted by: gereed75 Oct 22 2014, 11:34 AM

Chris, I would be interested in info on that engine. Currently about to slide down the $lippery $lope of rebuilding my tired 2.4 T into 2.4 Mod S motor. Contact me here or at gereed75@yahoo.com

Posted by: Root_Werks Oct 22 2014, 03:41 PM

That looks like a nice 914-4 and nice 914's are pretty hard to come by these days. I wouldn't convert it, just go find a 914 that's already converted to something you want.

Posted by: bcheney Oct 22 2014, 05:42 PM

The big bumpers are cool...I left them on my 1975 -6 conversion!


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Posted by: carr914 Oct 22 2014, 06:07 PM

Holy Shite, Root is in the House, how the hell are you?

Posted by: McMark Oct 22 2014, 09:48 PM

Apparently you've never worked with a 3.2. Come on Ron, obviously a six running carbs wouldn't take 10+ hours to wire. But even a carb setup is gonna take more than 2 hours to wire if you do a nice job.

Posted by: Root_Werks Oct 23 2014, 08:33 AM

Good, thanks! Still 914-less, but someday I'll pick up another one. I've been re-purchasing cars I used to own and just keeping them including a few Porsches. Haven't been able to track down any of my old 914's yet.

Posted by: SLITS Oct 23 2014, 08:59 AM

I have done one with carbs ... a 3.0 ... and you are correct, I've never done a 3.2L. All the rest were MFI or CIS.

All I do is match function and add a couple of wires for oil temp / pressure. I use the 14 pin male /female connectors. I have done 5 conversions which does not make me an expert by any means.

And it took me less than 2 hours of which the greatest amount of time was spent soldering the pins on the wires.

Back to invisible ................

Posted by: mepstein Oct 23 2014, 09:01 AM

If you do it, plan to spend more money than you think because there is plenty of little stuff that ads up. Wiring, gauges, heat, shift rods, oil lines, gaskets, hardware, muffler, r&r and modify some new/old parts, ect, ect. Even if you don't replace brakes, trans, cv's and tires, you'll want to make sure they are all in great condition,

Just budget high and you won't be disappointed. It's a hobby car so enjoy it.

Posted by: Trekkor Oct 25 2014, 12:15 PM

I did mine for about $4000.

Did it all myself.
It's all documented here.

No one believed it could be done.

Finding a motor for under $1500 might be tough today.

Posted by: Justinp71 Oct 25 2014, 05:59 PM

Only motors I've seen for $1500 were 2.7's ready to fall apart... I've seen some good deals on 3.0's for $3-5k and they would be cheaper to wire. Also very robust with the aluminum case.

Posted by: Mark Henry Oct 25 2014, 07:03 PM

Didn't you smoke one engine?
Didn't you have a 2.7 core kicking around?

Are you adding that to the total?


You can find a stock 3.0 good with good leak down numbers for around $4K.

All /6 engines can have issues, the 3.0 like other sizes have head stud problems so a leakdown test is a must.

Posted by: thelogo Oct 25 2014, 09:34 PM

What would be the best , 6 displacement ???

For stock ,wheels suspension, no flares . Etc .

And if not doing all the above wouldn't you always at least have it to
Stock 914-6 equlilvant spec .

Which is what exactly for which displacement s 2.0 only ?



Anyone ?

Posted by: ben*james Oct 26 2014, 09:28 AM

If you just gotta have a 6, and it's more about the destination than the journey: buy one. I saved parts, plotted a six conversion and I would still be on jack stands today if I didn't cave and buy a conversion. Instead, the last year has been spent driving with a big ole smile on my face.

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Oct 26 2014, 03:16 PM

Wow, I really like the factory finish 16x6s with the yellow paint and big bumpers. Your car is a handful of visual tweaks way from looking like the 914-6 would have for 1975-76 if Porsche hadn't pulled the plug.

Way cool...

pete

Posted by: Root_Werks Oct 27 2014, 11:00 AM

It's been proven over the years, you likely will not build a 914-6 conversion for what you could just buy one for. Unless you really want a project you can say "I did this"

Posted by: Beeliner Oct 27 2014, 07:03 PM

But it wouldn't be "I did this!"..... It would be "I [/i]paid[i] for this." Big difference...

Posted by: MoveQik Oct 27 2014, 10:23 PM

It is well known that I "paid" for a good portion of the mechanical work on my conversion. For no other reason than I don't have the skills to do a conversion. Maybe when I retire and my kid is out of the house I will have the time to learn how to do it all. IMHO, it makes it no less of a car.

Posted by: mepstein Oct 28 2014, 04:57 AM

In many cases its insures its a driver instead of a jackstand ornament.

Posted by: Scott S Oct 28 2014, 12:13 PM

I ruined a long standing "love affair" with a car I owned for over 20 years by doing a conversion. I did it all myself. It took the car off of the road for two years. When I was just about done, I found that I was going to have to overcome a tranmission shift linkage issue - which most likely would have required buying a new tranny (I had a tail and needed a side). That was the last straw. I lost all interest and bailed. Even as a six, I sold it for proabably half of what I had into just the conversion (I am a "while you are in there" type guy, however...).

Here is a pic of it being shipped to the new owner. I keep a copy at the shop so I dont change something I already like, just for the sake of change. My car ran and drove great as a four.

Just buy one. Trust me.





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Posted by: wndsrfr Oct 28 2014, 08:24 PM

Now that you've gotten the picture about doing the conversion from both the time investment and dollar expenditure I urge you to drive a "big 4" before you set out down that slippery slope. I've got both a wild 6 (2.7 RS Spec) and a wild big 4 (2316 Raby Kit). They both have their own personalities but frankly the 4 is just as much fun as the 6. Best part of the big 4 is that the engine work is simple. Complete rebuild if necessary (new crank, P&C's, bearings) can be done for about $2K in parts.
Come drive mine....I'm serious....you'll love it!

John

Posted by: Justinp71 Oct 28 2014, 11:06 PM

I would say a stockish 3.0. they have 180hp and decent low end torq. The mag case motors (2.0-2.7) are expensive to rebuild and are not a big enough bump in power in stock form to be worth all the cost. Realistically all you need is good performance tires and good condition stockish brakes to go along with it.

They don't have to be crazy brakes, just good stock should do the trick. I'm only running M-calipers that are slightly larger than stock with street/race pads and racing brake fluid and I can lock up 225's (front/rear, shoot I was locking up 255's in the rear for awhile) easy enough. It also stops great on the track. I do notice larger calipers need less brake input though for stopping, so that is nice. Also I recommend the power bleeders and a 19mm master cylinder, makes for quick responding firm brakes.

You will want rear springs a little stiffer as a 911 engine weighs more. It all depends on what you want to do with the car.

Good Luck!

Posted by: Dave_Darling Oct 29 2014, 11:21 AM

The 2.4 is the best Six engine for a narrow body car.

No, wait--the 3.2 is the best Six!

No, wait--it's a 2.5 liter short-stroke with carbs!

No, wait--it's a screaming high-revving 2.0 S motor!



Really, there isn't any one "best". Any Six is a hoot. The 3.6 motors produce enough torque to overwhelm any rear tires that fit under the stock fenders, and the 3.2s seem a bit marginal that way. But if you're careful with your right foot (until you want power-on oversteer!!) they can be fine too.

And I still can't figure out the last sentence. Which is what for huh?? Can we try that again?

--DD

Posted by: wndsnd Oct 29 2014, 06:39 PM

This thread is depressing me.

John