Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 914/6 2,4 t EFI Projekt
Posted by: michelko Nov 9 2014, 03:43 AM
Hi everybody,
Long time since i posted something.
After i converted my tenner to a six i was never happy with the Performance of the carbs.
I had the Zenith rebuild by a professional, but they never worked as i expected.
Over the time i got the idea to use a Injection System instead of the carbs.
There are some sellers that provide ITB for Porsches like TWM or PMO. These were way to expensive for my Budget, so i did some Research and found Motorcycle ITB that fitted nearly perfect to the Motor.
So i bought one set at about 70,- Euro to do the Engineering for the Adapter.
The first pics Show the milling process, last one the finished part.
Posted by: michelko Nov 9 2014, 03:50 AM
First step of the conversion was to lock the distributer and fit some magnets and a hall sensor. This was necessary because the Signal from the Points had some heavy bouncing. The Signal was realy unusable for the controler.
Here are some pics of the Dizzy parts.
Posted by: michelko Nov 9 2014, 04:00 AM
Next step was to fit the controler board into a motronic housing.
The controler is a megasquirt2 Derivate provided by no-limits Motorsport.
With These Setup i was able to start the engine with just using the electronic ignition and the old carbs.
The idea was not to Change to many variables at one time. Sorting out Errors is much easyer this way.
Posted by: michelko Nov 9 2014, 04:39 AM
So here is a YouTube vid showing the car running on electronic ignition
http://youtu.be/Jjam3aPknaQ
Posted by: El Vikingo Tropical Nov 9 2014, 05:47 AM
Nice to see your proyect! Are you gone use the Triumph manifold?
I'm just at the moment making a NA 944 with the Hayabusa units
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: veekry9 Nov 9 2014, 06:12 AM
Fantastik ideas.Elegant solution.
Need a part?Make one.Great concept.
http://www.optimum-maschinen.de/produkte/fraesmaschinen-cnc/index.html
Nice mill too.Economical.
Using Siemens,Grundig,Philips,Deckel,Maho,Heidenhain since mid 80s.
Others before then,back to the stone age of NC.
I recall someone did a similar use of bike tbs on http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro,a Northstar I'm sure.
I just happen to like 914 in blue.
Well done.
Posted by: 914Sixer Nov 9 2014, 07:29 AM
Really forward thinking ! Nice mill work.
Posted by: rudedude Nov 9 2014, 08:53 AM
Really nice! I understand your problems with zenith carbs. Will you tell us more of the parts and sensors you used?
Posted by: rick 918-S Nov 9 2014, 09:29 AM
Nice Project! 
Posted by: michelko Nov 9 2014, 12:17 PM
Really nice! I understand your problems with zenith carbs. Will you tell us more of the parts and sensors you used?
Yes i will post all details. If anyone need some special information please let me know
Michael
Posted by: RobW Nov 9 2014, 09:07 PM
What kind of HP boost do you think you'll get from the FI?
Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 10 2014, 07:44 AM
What kind of HP boost do you think you'll get from the FI?
FI by itself doesn't add HP.
It can add a bit if the TB is bigger than the carbs but that has more to do with the TB size change.
FI meters fuel more precise so fuel economy should go up.
Posted by: JmuRiz Nov 10 2014, 10:08 AM
Infinite tune-ability may make for more area under the peak HP curve though...and as said above, better mpg.
Posted by: bigkensteele Nov 10 2014, 08:33 PM
Infinite tune-ability may make for more area under the peak HP curve though...and as said above, better mpg.
The ability to optimize the air-fuel ratio throughout the power band will make more power overall, but that capability does not exist in FI systems that are not easily tuned, such as CIS. Motronic is better, but still not easily configurable by the average home mechanic.Watching this thread with great interest, as I recently purchased a 2.7 and don't want to run CIS. The local guys are telling me to just buy carbs and be done with it, but if I can build a better induction system for less money, why not?
Posted by: michelko Nov 10 2014, 11:54 PM
Hi,
additional power wasn´t the Goal. As mentioned above the tunability and the better gas milage were the reasons.
Michael
Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 11 2014, 07:09 AM
Infinite tune-ability may make for more area under the peak HP curve though...and as said above, better mpg.
The ability to optimize the air-fuel ratio throughout the power band will make more power overall, but that capability does not exist in FI systems that are not easily tuned, such as CIS. Motronic is better, but still not easily configurable by the average home mechanic.Watching this thread with great interest, as I recently purchased a 2.7 and don't want to run CIS. The local guys are telling me to just buy carbs and be done with it, but if I can build a better induction system for less money, why not?
Again I disagree.
Better drivablity yes, fuel economy yes, but all things equal FI doesn't add HP. Most who will say it did add HP also changed cams, exhaust, intake size, etc.
Even as far as drivability goes well set up carbs can be just as drivable as FI, it just takes some tinkering to get to that point.
Fuel economy and instant (almost) changes to the fuel curve is where FI shines.
As far as the /6 carbs vs FI cost debate there is no way you can build a complete FI for less than a set of carbs unless you DIY.
And then if you do DIY to be honest what is your time worth and how long is the car on the jackstands while you do it?
I've done it, others have done it, this chap is doing it, great satisfaction but it takes a lot of time to do this.
Posted by: michelko Nov 11 2014, 07:41 AM
Infinite tune-ability may make for more area under the peak HP curve though...and as said above, better mpg.
The ability to optimize the air-fuel ratio throughout the power band will make more power overall, but that capability does not exist in FI systems that are not easily tuned, such as CIS. Motronic is better, but still not easily configurable by the average home mechanic.Watching this thread with great interest, as I recently purchased a 2.7 and don't want to run CIS. The local guys are telling me to just buy carbs and be done with it, but if I can build a better induction system for less money, why not?
Again I disagree.
Better drivablity yes, fuel economy yes, but all things equal FI doesn't add HP. Most who will say it did add HP also changed cams, exhaust, intake size, etc.
Even as far as drivability goes well set up carbs can be just as drivable as FI, it just takes some tinkering to get to that point.
Fuel economy and instant (almost) changes to the fuel curve is where FI shines.
As far as the /6 carbs vs FI cost debate there is no way you can build a complete FI for less than a set of carbs unless you DIY.
And then if you do DIY to be honest what is your time worth and how long is the car on the jackstands while you do it?
I've done it, others have done it, this chap is doing it, great satisfaction but it takes a lot of time to do this.
I agree to Marks opinion.
I have "wasted" much time on this Project, but man... it was realy fun to learn, and build and tune. I still have to tune some more but thats ok. Its a Hobby!
Michael
Posted by: michelko Nov 11 2014, 07:50 AM
So here are some pics of the Stuff mounted in the car. Please excuse the wiring.
It was the first testrun. I cleaned up the wiring yet.
And here is a link to a Video running Fuel and Spark with the ECU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUBGRgKbsng&feature=player_embedded
Michael
Posted by: RobW Nov 11 2014, 07:59 AM
Awesome setup! Looks fantastic!
I assumed the FI was a part of pushing up performance on the HP side, but I can totally relate to just better fuel delivery / economy on the RPM curve. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing!
Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 11 2014, 08:55 AM
Nice job. 
Is the blue hose a balance tube?
The slight cough I heard is likely a small imbalance of the linkage, both TB banks are not 100% in sync.
Posted by: michelko Nov 11 2014, 09:55 AM
The blue hose is for the map sensor, the idle valve and the vacuum for fuel pressure Regulator.
Since the map is fluctuating heavily i connectet al the Barrels via the blue hose to smooth it out
The second Video is about one year old, balancing of the Throttles was a Little off at the beginning.
I drove it 4500km now on injection and the car never runs better, but i have to do some finetuning to get better mileage
Hera are som actual pics of the engine compartment with the cleaned up wiring.
Michael
Posted by: gereed75 Nov 11 2014, 11:55 AM
very nice work. I hope to do a similar project soon. Thanks for sharing
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)