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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Porsche Factory Restorations
Posted by: fixer34 Nov 26 2014, 03:48 PM
Cleaning up old emails and I came across one from several years ago from another 914 group I belonged to. It claimed that Porsche had a 'Classic' division that would do a factory restore of a car, even to the point of 'bare metal' and reproducing body panels. Back then, it seemed like it would be too expensive, but with a pristine /6 going for $70k or more...
Anyone else ever heard of this, or was it basically urban legend/old wive's tale?
Posted by: McMark Nov 26 2014, 03:54 PM
Porsche Classic is real - and they can get parts reproduced from original molds/tooling. Stuff we can only dream of.
But like anything in that category. You don't ask how much. They can't tell you, and the people who are paying won't tell you either. It's a ton. I suspect you would be SERIOUSLY upside down if you had them do a 914/6 that ended up being worth $70k.
Posted by: SirAndy Nov 26 2014, 03:56 PM
A few years ago someone posted several pictures here from a 914/6 bare metal resto at Porsche Classic. They had the car sitting on a Celette bench.
Posted by: Gustl Nov 26 2014, 04:13 PM
if you ask for the price, you can't afford 
Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 26 2014, 04:17 PM
Plus shipping and duties.
Posted by: SirAndy Nov 26 2014, 04:36 PM
Turns out, that "someone" was me ...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=53284
Posted by: fixer34 Nov 26 2014, 05:09 PM
Turns out, that "someone" was me ...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=53284
Believe it or not, I did not see this post before I wrote mine. It was pure coincidence.
However, if it's that expensive, I can't see why anyone would do it except maybe to be able to say they have a 'brand new' 40 year old car?
Posted by: monkeyboy Nov 26 2014, 06:35 PM
It wasn't designed for our cars, but the value of a Carrera RS or a 356 only goes up if you can show that all the resto was done by the mothership. You know it was done right with all factory parts.
Posted by: Steve Nov 26 2014, 06:45 PM
Seinfeld had one done there. I remember readng about in Excellence or maybe it was PCA Panorama
Posted by: mepstein Nov 26 2014, 07:59 PM
For some people, dropping a couple hundred K is play money. Percentage wise, it's probably less than we spend on our cars. If I had the money, I wouldn't think twice about having Porsche rebuild my Porsche.
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Nov 26 2014, 09:03 PM
I agree; if I had the money I'd prefer the factory do my restos but there is a principle (@ least to me) that's bugging me. The 914 was sold world wide but as we all know the vast majority of teeners came to the USA, & for that matter so did a lot of other models. They're the corporation & we're not, so why the hell don't they open a resto facility here? I'm already paying for the resto but why should I be subject to VAT tax? Why should I have to pay for shipping to & fro? Maybe I'm being picky but it bugs me.
Posted by: mepstein Nov 26 2014, 10:13 PM
I agree; if I had the money I'd prefer the factory do my restos but there is a principle (@ least to me) that's bugging me. The 914 was sold world wide but as we all know the vast majority of teeners came to the USA, & for that matter so did a lot of other models. They're the corporation & we're not, so why the hell don't they open a resto facility here? I'm already paying for the resto but why should I be subject to VAT tax? Why should I have to pay for shipping to & fro? Maybe I'm being picky but it bugs me.
Because they are Porsche and they are the ones making the rules. You have to decide if you want to play. If you think the shipping is pricey then I bet the $200/hour or whatever they charge is probably more than you are comfortable spending.
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Nov 26 2014, 10:20 PM
Because they are Porsche and they are the ones making the rules. You have to decide if you want to play. If you think the shipping is pricey then I bet the $200/hour or whatever they charge is probably more than you are comfortable spending.
I agree, but paying VAT really bugs me- it's un American in that it's taxation w/out representation. Not trying to start a political discussion here, but I'm one of those guys who really paid attention in history class.
Posted by: mepstein Nov 26 2014, 10:24 PM
Because they are Porsche and they are the ones making the rules. You have to decide if you want to play. If you think the shipping is pricey then I bet the $200/hour or whatever they charge is probably more than you are comfortable spending.
I agree, but paying VAT really bugs me- it's un American in that it's taxation w/out representation. Not trying to start a political discussion here, but I'm one of those guys who really paid attention in history class.
I don't think we pay it.
Posted by: Big Len Nov 26 2014, 10:25 PM
I agree; if I had the money I'd prefer the factory do my restos but there is a principle (@ least to me) that's bugging me. The 914 was sold world wide but as we all know the vast majority of teeners came to the USA, & for that matter so did a lot of other models. They're the corporation & we're not, so why the hell don't they open a resto facility here? I'm already paying for the resto but why should I be subject to VAT tax? Why should I have to pay for shipping to & fro? Maybe I'm being picky but it bugs me.
Because they are Porsche and they are the ones making the rules. You have to decide if you want to play. If you think the shipping is pricey then I bet the $200/hour or whatever they charge is probably more than you are comfortable spending.
I paid more than that for my divorce attorney.
To lose that witch, worth every friggen' penny.
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Nov 26 2014, 10:36 PM
I don't think we pay it.
I did when I ordered my Hayward & Scott SSHE's for my six
Posted by: mepstein Nov 26 2014, 10:48 PM
I don't think we pay it.
I did when I ordered my Hayward & Scott SSHE's for my six
VAT is "sales tax" charged in europe for goods that stay in europe. If you go in person and bring it back with you = you can get the VAT refunded to you either at the airport or later on your credit card. If you mail order goods to be shipped to the USA by mail - you normally will NOT be charged VAT.
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Nov 26 2014, 10:52 PM
VAT is "sales tax" charged in europe for goods that stay in europe. If you go in person and bring it back with you = you can get the VAT refunded to you either at the airport or later on your credit card. If you mail order goods to be shipped to the USA by mail - you normally will NOT be charged VAT.
That was how I understood it but H&S sent a VAT bill to FedEx after the fact, who in turn dumped it in my lap so I paid it to avoid any litigation from FedEx. Probably should have told them to "piss off wankers"
Posted by: bcheney Nov 26 2014, 11:46 PM
I have read recently that Porsche is bringing their restoration business to the USA and are in process of selecting a small handful of current dealers to open Porsche Classic facilities. My money says Brumos will be one such place...stay tuned in the months ahead.
Posted by: eitnurg Nov 27 2014, 03:11 AM
You should not have been charged - or paid - this. (Don't even try arguing with FedEx, they know diddeley-squat about import-export, despite being in the business).
BUT if it's a personal export - ie you take it with you - you have to pay VAT to the vendor. You then produce the goods and the bill at at the airport on departure, and get them certified. You then send the certified bill to the vendor, who then refunds you the VAT element. But I assume that as FedEx are involved, this didn't happen.
Sounds like your argument is with H&S. Either they, or FedEx, or probably both, fouled up and FedEx's "solution" was to just pass the charge on.
Posted by: DEC Nov 27 2014, 08:32 AM
A few years ago someone posted several pictures here from a 914/6 bare metal resto at Porsche Classic. They had the car sitting on a Celette bench.
You mean this thread
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=51780&hl=914-6+factory
Posted by: SirAndy Nov 27 2014, 09:58 AM
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=51780&hl=914-6+factory
Ha!
Well thank you, i can sleep better now. Apparently, my memory is still somewhat intact.
Posted by: tumamilhem Nov 27 2014, 10:01 AM
Cleaning up old emails and I came across one from several years ago from another 914 group I belonged to. It claimed that Porsche had a 'Classic' division that would do a factory restore of a car, even to the point of 'bare metal' and reproducing body panels. Back then, it seemed like it would be too expensive, but with a pristine /6 going for $70k or more...
Anyone else ever heard of this, or was it basically urban legend/old wive's tale?
I know the guy Porsche approached of heading up the Classic Restoration department in ATL. He considered it but really likes having his own business. He owns Broadford Racing here in Jacksonville.
Posted by: tumamilhem Nov 27 2014, 10:03 AM
I agree; if I had the money I'd prefer the factory do my restos but there is a principle (@ least to me) that's bugging me. The 914 was sold world wide but as we all know the vast majority of teeners came to the USA, & for that matter so did a lot of other models. They're the corporation & we're not, so why the hell don't they open a resto facility here? I'm already paying for the resto but why should I be subject to VAT tax? Why should I have to pay for shipping to & fro? Maybe I'm being picky but it bugs me.
Porsche Cassic Restoration is in ATL.
Posted by: bandjoey Nov 27 2014, 10:11 AM
So where is that car today?
Posted by: SirAndy Nov 27 2014, 10:41 AM
Judging by the license plate, it's somewhere in the area of Göppingen, which is in Baden-Württemberg. It's pretty close to Stuttgart.
Posted by: mikesmith Nov 29 2014, 02:15 AM
Not a very good shot, but a couple of the above-mentioned restorations in-progress (and not in ATL).
and a few other cars in the shop...
Posted by: DEC Nov 29 2014, 02:50 AM
Not a very good shot, but a couple of the above-mentioned restorations in-progress (and not in ATL).
and a few other cars in the shop...
That's the shop at the Portsche Museum in Stuttgart
Not the shop where they dio the restorations
Posted by: SixerJ Nov 29 2014, 01:10 PM
I have read recently that Porsche is bringing their restoration business to the USA and are in process of selecting a small handful of current dealers to open Porsche Classic facilities. My money says Brumos will be one such place...stay tuned in the months ahead.
Cannot comment on plans for the U.S., but you are essentially correct if they follow the UK. In the UK to celebrate 50 years of the 911 every main dealer had to purchase a project 911 and restore it to a fixed budget - 50k all in I seem to recall, so no long hoods.......
Off the back of that they launched 'classic restoration' at one or two centres
OPC's here also have at least one classic car sitting in the showroom on loan from some one. I was thinking of putting my 2.4 forward so come the spring it would be waxed and buffed to perfection!
I guess their logic is that with the value of some of the cars being well beyond even new cars and some lucky punters have the cash, then why not have a cut of the action that the independents have been enjoying
The issue I see is that with so many really really good and well established restoration businesses, unless you have super deep pockets, why bother apart from the kudos of saying my car was done by a classic Porsche centre
Then again why not just take it to Rick, Scotty, the metal guy, andy's guy......
If I won the lottery, only the mothership would do and I'd purchase a flat 8 while I was there as well
Posted by: bandjoey Nov 29 2014, 04:37 PM
If I won the lottery I'd do it cause it was 'factory'. 
If they offered a new body I'd strongly consider that too. I'd send that one to one of our members for paint and build.
Posted by: beech4rd Nov 29 2014, 05:23 PM
I think these guys would give Porsche Classic a run for their money. I believe that Peter Porsche bought one of their cars for his collection.
http://roadscholars.com
Nice to have that kind of money but reality intrudes.
Posted by: rgalla9146 Nov 29 2014, 06:01 PM
My memory is a bit foggy ....
I remember reading about a factory 356 restoration that included a lot of liberties with switches, knobs, trim etc. .....even a T5 car that got a T6 nose !
I think in Europe at the time function was far more important than minute detail.
When they bought important cars from the US that were restored here (.....not all) their level of detail and depth improved big time.
Plus, if MB has a classic center and Ferrari has a Classiche(?)center, Porsche is sure to follow.
Posted by: peteyd Nov 29 2014, 06:14 PM
Technicians that worked on the cars back in the 70's now work on the same cars at Classic Porsche now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB0tq6e5pWo
Posted by: draganc Nov 29 2014, 07:05 PM
Not cheap but not out of the world:
Our hourly rates:
Mechanic per hour: 105.00 € excl. VAT*
Body work/paint: 110.00 € excl. VAT*
As in regards to VAT (Value ADDED Tax):
If you in person buy stuff in EU and most other countries, you will have to pay local VAT, which you can reclaim after you export our purchase.
For a restoration, that would be only for the value of to the restoration and transportation cost. Not the car value, before or after.
Also, I don't know why, but auto parts are excluded for VAT reclaim if purchased in person.
Once you import your purchase, you will have to pay customs and your local state VAT. Hence, your taxes will stay local, if that makes you feel better Johnny B.
Also, are you seriously suggesting, or even demanding, because Porsche ships most of their cars to the US they should move their operation to us because of the shipping cost?
Guess how quickly they would stop offering such service to us in the US.
Posted by: fixer34 Nov 30 2014, 11:31 AM
Not cheap but not out of the world:
Our hourly rates:
Mechanic per hour: 105.00 € excl. VAT*
Body work/paint: 110.00 € excl. VAT*
As in regards to VAT (Value ADDED Tax):
If you in person buy stuff in EU and most other countries, you will have to pay local VAT, which you can reclaim after you export our purchase.
For a restoration, that would be only for the value of to the restoration and transportation cost. Not the car value, before or after.
Also, I don't know why, but auto parts are excluded for VAT reclaim if purchased in person.
Once you import your purchase, you will have to pay customs and your local state VAT. Hence, your taxes will stay local, if that makes you feel better Johnny B.
Also, are you seriously suggesting, or even demanding, because Porsche ships most of their cars to the US they should move their operation to us because of the shipping cost?
Guess how quickly they would stop offering such service to us in the US.
Watched some of the videos of the 911T restoration. I think there was a mention of about 1400 man hours of labor. So if my math isn't too rusty, we're talking around $300k, and that doesn't include parts.
Posted by: Hank914 Nov 30 2014, 02:22 PM
Not cheap but not out of the world:
Our hourly rates:
Mechanic per hour: 105.00 € excl. VAT*
Body work/paint: 110.00 € excl. VAT*
As in regards to VAT (Value ADDED Tax):
If you in person buy stuff in EU and most other countries, you will have to pay local VAT, which you can reclaim after you export our purchase.
For a restoration, that would be only for the value of to the restoration and transportation cost. Not the car value, before or after.
Also, I don't know why, but auto parts are excluded for VAT reclaim if purchased in person.
Once you import your purchase, you will have to pay customs and your local state VAT. Hence, your taxes will stay local, if that makes you feel better Johnny B.
Also, are you seriously suggesting, or even demanding, because Porsche ships most of their cars to the US they should move their operation to us because of the shipping cost?
Guess how quickly they would stop offering such service to us in the US.
Watched some of the videos of the 911T restoration. I think there was a mention of about 1400 man hours of labor. So if my math isn't too rusty, we're talking around $300k, and that doesn't include parts.
Do Porsches bring $300K plus at auction ?
There is a restore shop near me that has a nice orig condition barn-find for $100K if they do the restore, for a total estimate of around $250-$300K restored. (Not for sale if they can't do the work) It is a late 1960's 911 short or long wheel base (which is the more popular, LWB?). How many Porsches sell at that $300K plus?
Posted by: altitude411 Nov 30 2014, 02:39 PM
Not to be the police but...
110 euro =$137.00 usd
1400 x 137= $191,800.00
Still a bucket full of cash.
Posted by: rhd914 Nov 30 2014, 02:47 PM
I really need to get a better job!
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