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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Any successful radiator in engine compartment conversions?
Posted by: Mueller Dec 5 2014, 01:05 PM
I know this had been tried 7+ years ago, I was wondering if since then has anyone done a watercooled conversion and not put the radiator in the front trunk?
Posted by: 76-914 Dec 5 2014, 02:40 PM
Robert (rotary914) has. However, there is lots of free area with that tiny engine.
Posted by: shoguneagle Dec 5 2014, 02:57 PM
Master Mueller's "engineering mind" is back hard at it just as he never left. Wonder what creations are being planned????? Hope he never talks to the great Doc Evil and others; it will cost me money since I probably will want to build it.
Steve Hurt
Posted by: Mueller Dec 5 2014, 03:03 PM
Master Mueller's "engineering mind" is back hard at it just as he never left. Wonder what creations are being planned????? Hope he never talks to the great Doc Evil and others; it will cost me money since I probably will want to build it.
Steve Hurt
Straying from the promise to the wife "I'll keep this one stock!"
Just seeing what people smarter than me have come up with...not too difficult to achieve that!
Posted by: effutuo101 Dec 5 2014, 03:21 PM
My 2.5 suby turbo goes up to get the final brackets and radiator made next week.
We will see what he says, but, with the shelf out, it looks like enough room for a dual core wide radiator with 4x12 inch fans. I am concerned as California gets a bit warm.
I will let you know!
Posted by: d914 Dec 5 2014, 04:42 PM
jeep cherokee rad is like 10 x 36 and they make all AL versions.. shelf out , three fans mounted low I bet would work... but then again Bigkat shakes his head a lot at my ideas.....
Posted by: GeorgeRud Dec 5 2014, 04:54 PM
I always thought that using two small radiators in some IMSA. Style rear fender flares would be nice on a V8 conversion. Not subtle, but should have enough cooling capacity. I always liked the look of that Altec Lansing racer.
Posted by: mepstein Dec 5 2014, 07:45 PM
I would love for the radiator to work in the engine compartment but logic says no. Heat from engine and little airflow work against it. Do you know of any production mid or rear engine car that makes it work- I dont. Again, I'm on your side. If I didn't feel it absolutely neccesary to mount the oil cooler on my gt build or the rad on my suby build up front, I wouldn't.
Posted by: Chris914n6 Dec 5 2014, 08:00 PM
^^ Countach and Diablo.
GT engine lid and some scoops to increase airflow when you are moving. Fan tech has gotten a lot better this past decade. Spal 14" fans to 1840cfm. Max to fit under the lid 16" fan 2024 or 2467cfm ($$$).
Can't find my notes but iirc mine's about 2600cfm for both and my break even point is around 30mph.
Run an all aluminum engine... they dissipate heat better and they need to run hotter than old iron.
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 5 2014, 09:29 PM
Uh huh, that's the theory....
Posted by: effutuo101 Dec 5 2014, 09:34 PM
So, running an air cooled big 6 gets enough air. Why wouldn't a large 4 get enough with fans?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Posted by: Dave_Darling Dec 5 2014, 09:41 PM
It's also been done with an N/A Scooby motor. There are photos around here somewhere. Not sure what happened after the first few months with it, though.
--DD
Posted by: Mueller Dec 5 2014, 09:49 PM
So, running an air cooled big 6 gets enough air. Why wouldn't a large 4 get enough with fans?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Exactly, water is a more efficient medium than air so if that compartment can shed 300hp worth of an air cooled* 3.6 it seems that same space can shed the heat from a 300hp 4 or 6 water cooled motor
*anyone have the numbers how much cooling is really done by the oil?
Posted by: thelogo Dec 5 2014, 10:39 PM
I always though a rear spoiler with a radiator enclosed would be the way to go but
I think the way a boxster does the dual radiator s in the front corners of the bumper is
Brilliant
And I would never hack up my front truck for water cooling , just stupid
Posted by: r_towle Dec 5 2014, 10:46 PM
Mike, don't do it.
Keep it aircooled and drive it a lot sooner.
Posted by: veekry9 Dec 6 2014, 02:35 AM
https://www.google.ca/search?q=f1+chassis&biw=1440&bih=712&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=g7qCVKztDor-yQSZ9oGYBg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=uHKw9kU6Y4YvOM%253A%3BtOyLmZ4rGty6gM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fstatic.technologicvehicles.com%252Fnews%252F1602%252FSbarro_Intencity.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.technologicvehicles.com%252Fen%252Fgreen-transportation-news%252F1602%252Fgeneva-2012-sbarro-intencity-a-prototype-of-e%3B960%3B465
https://www.google.ca/search?q=f1+mid+mounted+radiators&biw=1440&bih=712&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=lruCVN-QLI2qyQSu84KQBw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=PkiYn6VqHf4fQM%253A%3BX63l7vm0x-iFHM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.f1fanatic.co.uk%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2014%252F03%252Fporsche-919-hybrid-2014-tech-5.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.reddit.com%252Fr%252FMachinePorn%252Fcomments%252F28ay8k%252F1972_the_heart_of_the_porsche_91730_turbopanzer_a%252F%3B1680%3B1260
A new way to slice bread.
Thermal conductivity of oil and water are known constants.
Squirting oil to the bottom of pistons and tops of cylinder heads are effective methods.
Air and oil cooled,a lot of oil,a lot of surface area.
Do we have to put the rads up front?
Making them fit in the middle down low will require some different approaches.
Posted by: veekry9 Dec 6 2014, 03:10 AM
The fan is a centrifugal pump, just like any centrifugal water pump and it's power consumption is directly related to the mass of fluid it is moving. If you throttle the fluid, it'll use less power.
Simplest solution that occurs to me is to use the flaps in the fan outlet housing tin to throttle the flow with a manual throttle cable that can be locked. Disconnect the thermostat bellows (I'm guessing that you've already done that to maximize the flow) and rig the throttle cable into the cabin somewhere handy between the seats. That way you can monitor head temp when driving on the street and not overheat by manually opening the flow when you want.
If you've got a thermostat set up in your oil cooler plumbing it'll not open 'til 180F, so oil is going to warm up just as fast as without it, but you could shortcut the plumbing there to eliminate the flow to the front cooler without having to remove it.
All that said, I'm concerned that trying to hurry up the warming process you may put stresses on the engine castings that may bring you grief......tread carefully!
Moving a lot of air for the aircooled.
Adding exchangers to cool the extra volume of oil with the associated weight.
Being able to dissipate the heat of a high compression n/a or turbo engine reliably is it.
50 % efficiency of a 200hp engine means cooling 200hp of heat.
Posted by: mgp4591 Dec 6 2014, 03:16 AM
Interesting side rad setup... would you have that much room on the sides and still keep all the rear trunk area? Maybe the rads would have some ducting to direct the airflow and you could run them flatter in the compartment to save room? I'm going with the upfront design but laying down at an angle but I'll definitely look into this setup for a turbo intercooler and oil cooler solution. 
Posted by: veekry9 Dec 6 2014, 04:33 AM
Step to the left.
Step to the right.
Posted by: veekry9 Dec 6 2014, 07:24 AM
Not the first.
Posted by: mepstein Dec 6 2014, 07:46 AM
it's easy to cool when the car is moving. It's driving through a slow moving traffic jam in the summer that has my concern.
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 6 2014, 07:47 AM
Yup, lots of theory to go around, but to answer the original question, no, I don't think anyone's done it successfully. Well, Lamborghini did, I guess, but then in the same situation Ford, Toyota, Ferrari and GM all used conventional front radiators.
So go for it, just please don't re-body the car to look like a Lamborghini.
Aw heck, screw that, if that's what you want then go full Lambo.
Posted by: veekry9 Dec 6 2014, 08:25 AM
http://www.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?67256147-Porsche-porn/page125
Same idea as the 914+Jeep,
Better tho.
Can't think of a reason why a dual rad set under the targa wouldn't work.
Posted by: 76-914 Dec 6 2014, 10:04 AM
I love to watch this subject resurface. A lot of arm chair engineering and suppositions! While the idea has merits I doubt I would ever do this even "if or when" someone "nails it". If your wondering why then it's most likely because you haven't done one of these conversions. Not trying to be snooty or snotty, just a word from the experience side. First and foremost is the fact that you will spend countless hours refining your design and a very big chunk of that time is thru the "Hell Hole". As we discover, the work in that area is made easy by "QUICKLY" removing the deck lid with just 2 10mm bolts. Mine has come off at least 10 times since it first started and is off again as I type this. (New electrical modification) I don't want to guess how many times it was on and off all together. 
That being said' if I had to work around a radiator or remove, drain and fill that SOB every time I needed to work in that area I would have abandoned this project long ago. Secondly, why worry about cutting up a front trunk? Once you have a good water cooled system in place you will never regress and re-install an air cooled. Besides, all of those areas can be welded back up quite easily.
I don't wish discourage anyone from trying something new or attempting a new design but I doubt that I would ever go this route even if someone had a proven design just because I know that occasional maintenance is needed in the "Hell Hole". Just my 2 cents. 
Posted by: veekry9 Dec 6 2014, 11:48 AM
"RSK must be Peter Harburg's, because there can't be 2 around here."
The most dangerous risk of all - the risk of spending your life not doing what you want, on the bet you can buy yourself the freedom to do it later. - Randy Komisar.
>cal PFF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_72
Evolution of design for non conformists.
If you can do it on a budget.
You may have a chance to win.
Posted by: messix Dec 6 2014, 12:35 PM
the advantage of front mount is that once the car is moving you have air moving through the radiator with out needing the fans.
having the radiator out of the airflow you would need the fans to run all the time.
even though there is an negative pressure area at the engine lid I doubt it would be enough to draw enough air flow to cool the radiator enough with out the fans running.
if you a using an engine driven fan then this is not a concern as with a Porsche six or the t4. but if using the electric fans the constant high amperage draw might not be desirable.
Posted by: veekry9 Dec 6 2014, 11:24 PM
If you planning to race it exclusively,a rad mounted in the rh seat area is possible.
Ducting to direct air to and from the rad has minimal weight.
A passenger seat would negate the proposition.
Posted by: SirAndy Dec 6 2014, 11:36 PM
Inquiring minds want to know.
Exactly ...
No, not exactly ...
On the air cooled engines, there is a clear separation between the intake side of the engine and the underside where the hot air is expelled.
Without that separation, our aircooled engines would be very short-lived.
I have yet to see any watercooled solution that followed the same principal.
Posted by: SirAndy Dec 6 2014, 11:41 PM
And the (armchair?) engineer in me cringes at that statement.
Because last time i checked each and every "water-cooled" car i know of uses air to expel the heat from the system.
Posted by: thelogo Dec 7 2014, 07:07 PM
Where do water cooled 911 s mount the radiator
Cause it would seem if it's boxster style , on both lower outside
Bumper area
That they intentionally stayed away from big single right in front style
????????
????
?
I see no reason no to implement what ever current water cooled Porsche s
Are doing
Posted by: Chris914n6 Dec 7 2014, 08:27 PM
^^ most newer mid engine cars do the corner rads and exhaust the air out the wheel well. Otherwise it cuts into the possible trunk space and exits out the hood or under the car, both are less than ideal.
The 914 doesn't have the space unless you cut into important parts of the chassis structure or make a deeper bumper.
Posted by: veekry9 Dec 7 2014, 09:03 PM
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000116-29.html
Could mount them at the sides.Something like this.
Do not fear the American Fiero.
Posted by: 904svo Dec 7 2014, 09:57 PM
Inquiring minds want to know.
Exactly ...
No, not exactly ...
On the air cooled engines, there is a clear separation between the intake side of the engine and the underside where the hot air is expelled.
Without that separation, our aircooled engines would be very short-lived.
I have yet to see any watercooled solution that followed the same principal.
Here is my rear mounted radiator in my 904 kit car (engine is a Subaru WRX)
I'm using a stock Subatu radiator and fans, the engine runs at 195 degrees. I'm
using the air coming off the rear deck to supply cool air into the radiator and
having the air exhaust under the car (low pressure area when moving)
Here are the pictures
Posted by: SirAndy Dec 7 2014, 10:04 PM
I'm using a stock Subatu radiator and fans, the engine runs at 195 degrees. I'm
using the air coming off the rear deck to supply cool air into the radiator and
having the air exhaust under the car (low pressure area when moving)
And that would fit in a 914 how exactly?
Posted by: mgp4591 Dec 7 2014, 10:13 PM
There's alot of room for the radiator out in back... unless you want to save your rear trunk. Great looking 904 by the way!
Posted by: 904svo Dec 7 2014, 10:16 PM
I'm using a stock Subatu radiator and fans, the engine runs at 195 degrees. I'm
using the air coming off the rear deck to supply cool air into the radiator and
having the air exhaust under the car (low pressure area when moving)
And that would fit in a 914 how exactly?
Just to prove a point. As long as you can get the air flowing thru the radiator and exhaust it (air flow) you can mount the radiator or radiators any were.
Posted by: JRust Dec 7 2014, 10:19 PM
My NA 2.5 subaru leaves a bunch of room in the trunk as stated. I also don't have any cutouts in front for air flow. It is just the stock holes without the rubber plugs in them. My car has zero cooling problems with it up front. It does exit through cutouts in the wheels wells. It also pretty much wipes out my whole front trunk. If we could get a solution to get headlights in the turn signal buckets. I think the dual radiator boxster setup using the front light buckets would be killer. I think with a flared car you could do those in the engine bay on each side with some inlets. I haven't seen to many inlets on the side of a 914 that I have really liked.
I think if you could have a short but wide radiator. Say 10" by 40"+ it is possible. If you could mount it low in front of a NA 2.5 suby. I think it could work. Only because I know how little it takes to cool mine. It would take some inlets in the rocker at the least. Then some pretty powerful fans to help pull it through. I think low instead of high for working on the motor. If it's up high with a GT lid it will definitely interfere with getting to the motor for basic maintenance. I would love to see it done . I don't see it being me that does it though 
Posted by: Andyrew Dec 8 2014, 09:22 AM
I think it has all to do with the size of the motor and the ducting. I would almost guarantee you a 1.8-2.5L could easily survive a small radiator in the engine compartment if there was a proper amount of both ducting with ram air and cowl induction.
Posted by: thelogo Dec 8 2014, 11:32 AM
How about Targa top mount
As crazy as it sounds , it almost makes sense
My neighbors Baja has the oil cooler in a scoop mounted
Directly on the rear roof
Posted by: veekry9 Dec 8 2014, 12:27 PM
There's alot of room for the radiator out in back... unless you want to save your rear trunk. Great looking 904 by the way!
Sure is a beautiful design,tho I can't make out the origin of the car.
Did you do the build personally?
A lot of questions looking for answers.
1 rad or 2?
Up high or down low.Add a scoop or leave it stock?
20Ft of hose or 3?
How to bleed the lines as they make their way forward and back.
Should you make your trunk useless.
It's not real,but should you make a drawing after using a tape measure and Gimp/Photoshop/Draw etc..?
A custom rad or a used one?
Do it like Leo.
DaVinci.
The amount of time and effort every aircooled manufacturer expended is enormous.
1957-65 treks through Death Valley/Denver as a test track with the Corvair.
Real engineers doing real calculations in thermodynamics.
Useful to reference the data gathered as the numbers are real.
The designer of the Tatra wrote an informative book on his designs,buy a copy.
Posted by: Chris914n6 Dec 8 2014, 12:33 PM
I crunched some numbers.
Based on a few sedans I have available, the point at which the airflow through the grille surpasses the fan cfm is about 15mph. In part throttle low speed around town normal traffic driving almost anything near OEM design will seem adequate. It's at freeway speeds where a higher engine load and increased heat generation takes it's toll. It's the hours on the highway at 2/3 throttle where you'll see temps creep up because you don't have 5x or so airflow forced through the rad.
My 914n6 is an exception. I have 2x 1390cfm from the fans and my break even point is 40mph. But I also have a little oil cooler on the firewall and the SE spoiler lets air flow along the hoses. The ecu triggers 2 speed fans at 203F and 212F. Cruising at 80mph I'd be toast without the forced air.
Posted by: fiid Dec 8 2014, 12:34 PM
It seems doable to do radiators in the engine bay, or at the rear of the car at least. Sacrificing the rear trunk to save the front, esp if you could keep just enough to keep the roof back there would be a win.
Just my opinions, but it makes sense to me that with engine tin and sufficient fans you could make it work. I think an engine driven fan may make more sense. I think you might want to use an upright engine so you can maximise the surface areas on either side of the motor. Maybe a centrifugal fan on the crank wheel that blows in two directions into two radiators on either side of the motor? or maybe a slant motor with a rad on one side so you can keep the radiators away from the exhaust.
Logically, if a 3.6 can work, you should be able to do something reasonably powerful, except an air cooled motor has a *lot* of surface area (all those fins!). I think you'd have to pick something physically small-ish to make it fit, but that could still be deeply entertaining.
Posted by: McMark Dec 8 2014, 12:53 PM
That's a good idea!
Posted by: SirAndy Dec 8 2014, 01:38 PM
I doubt a 3.6L would work *without* a front mounted cooler. I have yet to see one that didn't have direct airflow over an external cooler.
PS: Hi Fiid!
Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 8 2014, 02:12 PM
Attached image(s)
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 8 2014, 03:21 PM
The question was whether a radiator had been successfully used in the 914 engine compartment. I think the answer is still generally not in a 914, with a lot of discussion of theoretical possibilities. It HAS been done in other cars, for example that Laborghini, or closer to home by Toy-Jet, which put their radiator in an LS1 911's whale tale:
On the more practical side VW bus guys have been out there actively trying lots of different ways to adapt modern engines to their old air-cooled busses. One that was interesting to our discussion was split dual radiators in the engine compartment fed with large scoops on the sides of a bay window bus, augmented by large fans. This worked reasonably well but still tended to heat saturate after extended time on the freeway. 
Another bus had huge fans pulling air into split window's engine bay, proved not nearly enough. Yet another had scoops across the underside of a kombi gave good airflow and worked for a while, but scooped up a lot of dirt and crap that eventually clogged things. Another was roof-mounted like a luggage rack, which sounds a bit like the targa suggestion. 
The owner intends to camouflage that so it looks like a suitcase or a beer cooler, interesting idea but probably not the best look for a 914. This one actually works really well, it's in direct air flow, but not exactly in the engine compartment.
Obviously these aren't 914's, but it's significant that most of those applications are low to medium powered Subaru engines that are relatively efficient and don't need a huge amount of cooling. A higher powered engine would certainly be more difficult. Basically what's relevant is that the practical experiments indicate that it's really difficult to cool without having access to direct air flow. That means I wouldn't be optimistic about it working in a 914's engine compartment either, but hey, if you think you have a good idea, go for it.
Posted by: 76-914 Dec 8 2014, 08:13 PM
Paul makes a good point re: heat sink. I watched it as I worked thru my cooling probs. And the more efficient your power plant the longer it takes. You think you have it then you don't. It's like chasing your tail. Frankly, I won't know until I've cruised thru the desert @115F w/o a hitch. Everyone of us is running a variation of a variation w/o any "hard" numbers. To Paul's point, you just have to look around to see what works and what hasn't. Good luck
Posted by: Andyrew Dec 8 2014, 10:50 PM
You know what would be an interesting fail safe, If there was a water sprayer in front of the radiator for if the water temp got to a dangerous degree. Obviously you would have to replace the water, but it could avoid a dangerous overheat, and should drop the temps down really fast.
Posted by: RobW Dec 9 2014, 12:03 AM
You could mount an oil cooler right behind the 914 drivers head, but there's a lot of hot air there too! 
Posted by: veekry9 Dec 9 2014, 01:06 AM
You know what would be an interesting fail safe, If there was a water sprayer in front of the radiator for if the water temp got to a dangerous degree. Obviously you would have to replace the water, but it could avoid a dangerous overheat, and should drop the temps down really fast.
Sure.
Works great,adiabatic cooling,a pal had a system for his van in the '70s that was fantastic.Took it to Daytona to see Yvon DuHamel and Paul Smart.(With our bikes)
A small 12v motor spun a thin sheetmetal disk,water was pumped to an orifice and the water was centrifigually thrown onto a coarse open cell polyurethane foam tube,on the inside.
As the fan was mounted atop the tube,air was forced through the foam into a tubular plenum,where it was distributed to the interior of the van.
Economical,requires water of the fresh kind.Humidity inside rises to near saturation.A turbo charge cooler can be made that works the same.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Smart_%28motorcycle_racer%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_H2_Mach_IV
http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/06/12/from-the-archives-daytona-1973/
http://www.vf750fd.com/motorbikes/H2r1.html
Posted by: bulitt Dec 9 2014, 02:28 AM
I would love for the radiator to work in the engine compartment but logic says no. Heat from engine and little airflow work against it. Do you know of any production mid or rear engine car that makes it work- I dont. Again, I'm on your side. If I didn't feel it absolutely neccesary to mount the oil cooler on my gt build or the rad on my suby build up front, I wouldn't.
Ferrari Testarossa.
Posted by: mepstein Dec 9 2014, 05:32 AM
I would love for the radiator to work in the engine compartment but logic says no. Heat from engine and little airflow work against it. Do you know of any production mid or rear engine car that makes it work- I dont. Again, I'm on your side. If I didn't feel it absolutely neccesary to mount the oil cooler on my gt build or the rad on my suby build up front, I wouldn't.
Ferrari Testarossa.
I stand corrected. But we are still fighting an uphill battle to make a mid mounted radiator work in a 914 compared to a car that was designed that way.
Posted by: timothy_nd28 Jan 19 2015, 01:28 AM
Laying a radiator flat in the front trunk?
Posted by: Mike Bellis Jan 19 2015, 09:27 AM
I had a radiator built to lay flat in the front trunk on my first conversion. It worked great and gave me back some of the trunk space. Con: the air outlet was straight down and would blow dirt around and add unwanted air under the car.
people keep stating cars like Ferrari and Lamborghini as successful engine bay radiators. Keep in mind these cars were engineered for this. Body panels and air flow direct the heat away. $$$$ have been spent in R&D.
The 914 engine bay has horrible air flow. It was not designed to force air through the tins. The fan forces air through the tins. flaps below help to create turbulent air for the fan to force through the tins.
I think if Porsche thought engine bay radiators were practical, they would have used this method on the 911 and Boxster.
There looks to be just enough room under the 914 headlight bucket to use a pair of Boxster radiators. I am going this route at some point. I may also use the center rad with a matching size oil cooler too. I would love to have a front trunk again.
The design would be to raise the center tunnel, creating a raised void under the car to route the Boxster coolant lines. Oil lines and fuel lines could be routed here as well. A cover would be fabricated like a belly pan to enclose the void. Getting past the front suspension with the Boxster hard tubes look like the biggest difficulty.
Posted by: rdauenhauer Jan 19 2015, 09:44 AM
Scott Thacher was the guy who showed up in WCR 05 with his "In Bay" NA scooby conversion. He drove it from MD to SoCal and back!
#'s dont always tell you if it will WORK.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=29707&hl=scott++thacher
Posted by: Andyrew Jan 19 2015, 09:57 AM
I had a radiator built to lay flat in the front trunk on my first conversion. It worked great and gave me back some of the trunk space. Con: the air outlet was straight down and would blow dirt around and add unwanted air under the car.
people keep stating cars like Ferrari and Lamborghini as successful engine bay radiators. Keep in mind these cars were engineered for this. Body panels and air flow direct the heat away. $$$$ have been spent in R&D.
The 914 engine bay has horrible air flow. It was not designed to force air through the tins. The fan forces air through the tins. flaps below help to create turbulent air for the fan to force through the tins.
I think if Porsche thought engine bay radiators were practical, they would have used this method on the 911 and Boxster.
There looks to be just enough room under the 914 headlight bucket to use a pair of Boxster radiators. I am going this route at some point. I may also use the center rad with a matching size oil cooler too. I would love to have a front trunk again.
The design would be to raise the center tunnel, creating a raised void under the car to route the Boxster coolant lines. Oil lines and fuel lines could be routed here as well. A cover would be fabricated like a belly pan to enclose the void. Getting past the front suspension with the Boxster hard tubes look like the biggest difficulty.
With your small displacement I think you can get away with this fairly easily.
Posted by: DBCooper Jan 19 2015, 10:05 AM
Cool, this thread came back. In the meantime I ran across a thread (titled "Subaru Engine") at www.spyderclub.com that traced one of their car's evolution of radiator placement. The 550's have the same rear transmission mid-engine layout, are going more Subaru, and their owners would also prefer to keep everything in the engine compartment. This is one car's iterations and an eerie parallel to what we've also seen:
Quote
But the basic evolution:
1: Mcrae with an little 1.8lt Subaru turbo engine and gearbox
Radiator mounted above the engine under the rear grills, no intercooler.
Found that I always had a engine temp problems, I never had on the track at that point.
Eventually the overtemp took its toll and the little 1.8 failed.
2: EJ20T and stock 2WD gearbox
Stock radiator mounted in front of the engine and about 3" gap to the fire wall.
Never going to get the cooling but good try.
Stock intercooler mounted under the rear grills.
Stock ECU rechipped to remove the speed limiter. 12.4 ET @ 180kph
3: Small 2" chin scoop behind the radiator under the car, still not engough cooling and now super sprinting the car.
Aftermarket ECU
Still overtemp after several laps, intake temps would also increase due to poor heat transfer between the stock intercooler and grill airflow.
Stock 2WD gearbox with open diff goes bang but it took 2 seasons of hillclimbs and lots of passes at the strip.
4: Add 2 cutouts behind the seats with ducting to radiator to increase the air flow, still kidding myself, that's just not enough.
5: Ring lands failed on several pistons.
Rebuild the 2ltr but now use a NA 2.5 block with new 2.5ltr STI rods and pistons and 2ltr heads, replace original auto turbo with a manual turbo 13lbs boost.
Convert an STI CR gearbox to 2WD using the 2WD rear casing stock and STI LSD.
Move the new alloy radiator to the front of the car, use 1 1/8" aluminium tubing and silicon bends etc, cut out the oil grills, alloy ducting enclosing the radiator.
Mounted a large alloy front mount intercooler in the front of the engine in the place of the old radiator used stock aftermarket front mount alloy intercooler pipework.
Turbo inlet via a CF box above the engine taking in air from one rear grill.
10.4 ET @ 125mph.
Radiator outlet was just flowing into the hood area, after 20 or so laps the temps in the hood area and the fuel tank would increase, fuel surge pot would be red hot.
6: Enclose the rear of the radiator and duct out the front wheel wells.
7: Super reliable, go out and run at full boost all day, scare the locals.
last time I was out we were lapping 2 up (wife likes to drive but not shotgun) with a second level V8 super car, he had much better corner speed but we would pull up to him on the straight and poke our nose out as if to pass, had his pit crew hanging over the pit wall wondering what the hell this little car was. :-\"
Only thing I think I would do now is convert to an air/water barrel intercooler with front mount radiator, just a lot more compact and would restore the firewall to stockish.
Photos to follow. Cheers from downunder.
Unquote
Posted by: DBCooper Jan 19 2015, 10:58 AM
Unfortunately a lot of rear-mount cooling projects in all kinds of different cars get started and then either don't work or the threads peter out and disappear. I'd assume that to mean they didn't work out either. Scott's gone too, but does anyone know what happened to his car? I think his is the only I've heard of that was reported to work well. I don't remember seeing any photos, though, does anyone have a link?
Not the same, but there are these vasserboxers in VW's:
Both said to work, both bring air in over the transmission through a big cutout in the firewall in front of the engine. Even so the consensus in the VW community (shoptalkforums.com, Conversion Perversions and thesamba.com) seems to be the same as here, that front mounted is foolproof, rear remains unproven.
Posted by: 3d914 Jan 19 2015, 01:59 PM
OK, here's mine. Not done, but in process. I have two plans to locate radiators for the SHO V6 - the example here in the engine bay and an atypical up-front method that doesn't eat up the trunk.
This engine bay method (similar to 904's approach) provides the 200 sq.ft of surface area and same volume as stock by running dual (smaller) radiators in series (not parallel). The radiators are positioned and will be fully enclosed from the engine lid down to the radiator. Fans will be below the rads and draw air down, so hot air exists out the back.
Here's some pics:
Engine with lid
Engine lid cutouts for cooling air
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-1191-1392609342.jpg
Layout graphics:
Posted by: Mueller Jan 19 2015, 04:45 PM
Laying a radiator flat in the front trunk?
Got a link to that? Looks cool whatever it is!
I forgot about Scotts subaru powered 914 way back at that event...I was there!
There was also a 4 cylinder Dodge conversion that I think the guy was from the Bay Area that did the radiator in the engine bay, saw it one time at a event and never saw him or the car again.
The radiator was mounted I think on the drivers side of the motor with a fan that pushed hot air towards drivers side.
Those lines for the Boxster are neat, 1st time I've seen those.
Posted by: Mueller Jan 19 2015, 04:57 PM
Crazy idea time.....
Still have "something" up front yet sized much smaller due to using the coolant lines that go up front as heat sinks....
Not easy or cheap to fabricate and more spots for leaks...then you have to worry about extra resistance/friction for the water pump to deal with.
Posted by: DBCooper Jan 19 2015, 06:56 PM
I've seen finned aluminum tubing a bit like that in a process plant on the Gulf coast. Thought about trying to find it for my car when I was planning for the V8, but never did.
Found it, here:
I just googled "longitudinal finned aluminum tubing." I think it's high-dollar specialty stuff (petro-chemical plant) but ask, for the tiny quantities you'd need I'm sure they'd have some odd lengths for sale cheap. The one I saw was thin walled and actually had a lot more thinner and shorter fins than that, so if that doesn't work try some of the other suppliers. And if it sticks down too much you can just grind off those fins.
Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 19 2015, 07:10 PM
Talk to Chuck at Elephant Racing in SJ. They do mandrel-bent finned tubing for 911 oil cooler lines. The tubes are actually threaded, IIRC, but the threads act like little fins.
I kind of doubt you'll get a whole lot of cooling just from any set of lines, but I guess every bit helps.
--DD
Posted by: timothy_nd28 Jan 19 2015, 07:55 PM
Trane has been using this for decades, highly highly efficient with heat transfer but I worry about the pressure drop. 
Posted by: Mueller Jan 19 2015, 08:03 PM
Trane has been using this for decades, highly highly efficient with heat transfer but I worry about the pressure drop.
Interesting stuff....
http://www.achrnews.com/articles/90183-the-aluminum-side-of-the-great-coil-debate
Seems like this might be a thermal issue that a professional HVAC designer should be involved in!
Posted by: Mueller Jun 26 2015, 10:45 AM
New Lamborghini Huracan has rear mounted radiators...now to find a picture!
Posted by: Brian Mifsud Jun 26 2015, 12:23 PM
Inquiring minds want to know.
Exactly ...
No, not exactly ...
On the air cooled engines, there is a clear separation between the intake side of the engine and the underside where the hot air is expelled.
Without that separation, our aircooled engines would be very short-lived.
I have yet to see any watercooled solution that followed the same principal.
Adding to this.. the 911 engine uses Mechanical Energy to run a Centrifugal Blower.
It moves MEGA cubic feet per minute by sacrificing many horsepower. Estimates are up to 16HP:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/143324-how-much-hp-does-911-cooling-fan-cost.html
Think about how big a 16HP electric motor is...
In a 914, you need brute force to pull the air down and through the engine bay.
I think this is the fundamental reason why a front mounted radiator is far more efficient.
Posted by: rick 918-S Jun 26 2015, 03:25 PM
Scott Thacher was the guy who showed up in WCR 05 with his "In Bay" NA scooby conversion. He drove it from MD to SoCal and back!
#'s dont always tell you if it will WORK.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=29707&hl=scott++thacher
Traveled with him. The car was completely back yard engineered before Renagade even thought about it. Stock Suby radiator just ahead of the engine. Small scoop on the pan pulling air off the road. We were stuck in construction at way over 100 deg. I had to shut my engine off. He was driving around us through the ditches.. 
It will work.
Posted by: Mueller Jun 26 2015, 04:37 PM
Adding to this.. the 911 engine uses Mechanical Energy to run a Centrifugal Blower.
It moves MEGA cubic feet per minute by sacrificing many horsepower. Estimates are up to 16HP:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/143324-how-much-hp-does-911-cooling-fan-cost.html
Think about how big a 16HP electric motor is...
In a 914, you need brute force to pull the air down and through the engine bay.
I think this is the fundamental reason why a front mounted radiator is far more efficient.
hmmm, maybe we are looking at this the wrong way....perhaps it should be suck and not blow?
Radiator setups with pull type fans are more efficient than those with pusher fans...
Posted by: Chris H. Jun 26 2015, 05:22 PM
Yes, always pull air, never push (Mike Bellis).
Some of the pics are missing from Scott's build but I think I have them somewhere. Let me look. Just need a decent sized rad and strong fan/fans. I think he mounted it pretty low.
I also toyed with the idea of somehow using the heater tubes in the longs as a secondary source to blast air onto a mid ship rad, bringing the air from the front. Couldn't figure out where to duct it without cutting and the cowl vent seemed too small so I abandoned it, but maybe it will turn a light bulb on for someone else...
Posted by: Andyrew Jun 26 2015, 06:25 PM
Scott Thacher was the guy who showed up in WCR 05 with his "In Bay" NA scooby conversion. He drove it from MD to SoCal and back!
#'s dont always tell you if it will WORK.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=29707&hl=scott++thacher
Traveled with him. The car was completely back yard engineered before Renagade even thought about it. Stock Suby radiator just ahead of the engine. Small scoop on the pan pulling air off the road. We were stuck in construction at way over 100 deg. I had to shut my engine off. He was driving around us through the ditches.. It will work.Its all about proper shrouding and airflow IMHO
I think engines under 200hp can support something like that.
I have been considering the aluminum tubes for a while but I really dont think we would see more than a 5 degree heat loss and only while moving. If your sitting on hot asphalt rolling slowly and the asphalt is 130 deg....your really not going to get any benefit....
You can probably get more benefit from having small inline motorcycle radiators in the fender wells with some fans that kick on. I am going to have one for my a/w intercooler (similar to Miked but without direct airflow)but I have more fender space than most anyone.
The other thing I think is electric water pumps to flow more coolant at low speeds, Like the Daves one I posted earlier (cant search now)
Posted by: worn Jun 26 2015, 07:11 PM
And the (armchair?) engineer in me cringes at that statement.
Because last time i checked each and every "water-cooled" car i know of uses air to expel the heat from the system.
You have to admit that the phase change provides a cushion: if all else fails it ca boil over.
Posted by: 914forme Jun 26 2015, 07:50 PM
Motorcycle Rads I have thought about several times. I even took time to look for small rads to mount in my front fenders. Newer bikes are using curved rads to get more surface area in a narrower space.
The one I am still looking for was as a kid I remember an add in the back of Hot Rod. Claimed to cool a 454 with a super small rad, like a 12x12, octagon thing.
Now maybe it was all made up, as a 454 could be cooled while idling and coasting down hill at 100 miles an hour.
Love to find out if it actually worked though as I think fender rads would be a very nice touch. Much like Brant's oil coolers. I keep trying to figure this one out. And yet to do it. And right now, I am just in the mood to get the car running and get to driving.
Posted by: Brian Mifsud Jun 29 2015, 10:49 AM
hmmm, maybe we are looking at this the wrong way....perhaps it should be suck and not blow?
Radiator setups with pull type fans are more efficient than those with pusher fans...
Somebody already did the work years ago either on this forum, or on "Rennlist", but it's very useful to understand where the Vacuum is in and around that engine bay at speed. Typically, you'd expect a low pressure area behind the rear window due to the sudden transition of the roof ending at the engine compartment "intake".
Under the car, the little skirt Porsche put in front of the bottom edge of the engine compartment is supposed to do the same thing, create a low pressure region to help "pull" the air through the fins as pumped by the engine's scroll/squirrel cage blower. I've always wondered which area had a lower pressure "vacuum" at a given speed.
I don't see a compelling reason for air to flow through the engine bay on it's own without being pumped in some manner. Years ago, at an autocross, I had to laugh at the racer's solution.. taking furnace ducting, and running it straight through the front of the car, trunk, passenger compartment, and ending aimed directly at the blower which had blades removed to minimize parasitic drag and lost HP. The car's sheetmetal was certainly hacked up. Now THAT was taking the bull by the horns....
Posted by: Chris914n6 Jun 29 2015, 02:39 PM
Looking at racing rads for toyota celica/mr2/spyder ran across racing rads for motorcycles that were not curved, if someone was considering doing multiple small rads now is a good time to hit ebay.
Posted by: Andyrew Jun 29 2015, 08:51 PM
You talking about these puppies?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-CORE-2-ROW-MOTORCYCLE-RACING-RADIATOR-w-CAP-Kawasaki-KX80-KX85-01-08-/151359854389?hash=item233dc01735&vxp=mtr
Ya thats what I am going to use for my A/W Intercooler in my fender.
Posted by: SirAndy Jun 29 2015, 09:14 PM
Was the car yellow? If so, that is Rich Bontempi's class winning 180HP 1.8L ...
Posted by: Chris H. Jun 29 2015, 11:40 PM
You talking about these puppies?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-CORE-2-ROW-MOTORCYCLE-RACING-RADIATOR-w-CAP-Kawasaki-KX80-KX85-01-08-/151359854389?hash=item233dc01735&vxp=mtr
Ya thats what I am going to use for my A/W Intercooler in my fender.
Some come as a pair and they measure 4.5 X 13 each depending on the one you pick..I think that's about the width of the front trunk area. Man it would be nice to put a couple of those in there and get most of my trunk space back. Could stick them right in front of the opening and vent them just like an oil cooler. Not sure if they would be enough to cool my engine though. Be like having ONE 9x13 rad I guess... Might need one or two more. The small fans sure are pricey!
Posted by: Dave_Darling Jun 30 2015, 09:02 AM
That's the road-race solution. It stems from rules that were originally written for Little British Cars--you were allowed to duct air from the headlight buckets to the cooling fan.
Works well at speed, but not so great at idle or at low speeds.
I talked to the late Chuck Forge about it, and the cooling fan with most of the blades removed. He said he ran a full fan once to compare--and it felt like he was dragging a trailer around the track with him! Chuck used fans with, I think, 2 out of every 3 blades removed. I remember Rich using fans with all the blades removed. Probably one reason that Rich quoted higher power levels than Chuck did.
--DD
Posted by: Brian Mifsud Jun 30 2015, 10:42 AM
Was the car yellow? If so, that is Rich Bontempi's class winning 180HP 1.8L ...
Now that you mention his name, YES it was Rich's car. He knew what he was doing for sure.
Posted by: Chris914n6 Jun 30 2015, 02:15 PM
You talking about these puppies?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-CORE-2-ROW-MOTORCYCLE-RACING-RADIATOR-w-CAP-Kawasaki-KX80-KX85-01-08-/151359854389?hash=item233dc01735&vxp=mtr
Ya thats what I am going to use for my A/W Intercooler in my fender.
Yep. For a time I had plans for an a/w intercooler in the fender too. Scored a bigger engine instead.
Posted by: Bill D Jun 30 2015, 06:36 PM
For the TD I was able to fit the radiator next to the engine. I added a second radiator in the back (RUF oil cooler) where the muffler used to be. The alternator fit with plenty of room on the back side.
Posted by: Mike Bellis Jun 30 2015, 07:24 PM
For the TD I was able to fit the radiator next to the engine. I added a second radiator in the back (RUF oil cooler) where the muffler used to be. The alternator fit with plenty of room on the back side.
I want to see more! Is this car running & driving?
Posted by: Andyrew Jun 30 2015, 09:42 PM
Impressive that you were able to make that work! Adding additional cooling in the back makes perfect sense!
Posted by: Bill D Jul 1 2015, 05:57 AM
My project is no where near as ambitious as yours. Hats off....
The secondary radiator is plumbed just like a heater core in the stock application. There is a thermostatic switch mounted to the radiator. The plastic air deflectors were removed from the underside to allow air to flow naturally from bottom to top. The wiring is fairly simple.
Posted by: matthepcat Jul 1 2015, 09:43 AM
I like it.
As I understand it the diesel runs cooler than petrol, so would this system struggle to keep up with a gas engine?
Posted by: Bill D Jul 1 2015, 12:01 PM
I like it.
As I understand it the diesel runs cooler than petrol, so would this system struggle to keep up with a gas engine?
I had some help in sizing this radiator a while back and decided i wanted extra capacity as i was thinking of adding AC to the mix and wanted the ability to box the secondary radiator in the winter and duct it so it would work like the original heater with an inline fan. i have since decided on heating the seats and have a small electric heater for defrost. don't need much heat in NC.
it would be a guess but i think this setup could manage 200hp with the right air flow and maybe an external oil cooler to help.
i am not counting on a diesel engine running cooler. my old benz dt had a radiator at least as big as the gas version
Posted by: flmont Jul 7 2015, 07:13 PM
Iam considering a 4.3 ltr chevy v6 system,.with a renegade water pump and Alt system,...and have the Rad ,.bolted but extended from the fire wall,..with fans, or have a rad built the size of the firewall,..also with fans should cool well,..that way I can go back to stk system,..??? build that v6 to around 280 HP with matching Tq specs..????
Posted by: Mueller Feb 5 2017, 04:13 PM
Not a 914, but I think close enough, went to small car gathering this morning and this Northstar V8 swapped bug was there.
Guy said no cooling issues with the radiator in the middle not too far from the engine.
Running rubber scoops up underneath the car. 
Posted by: Mueller Feb 5 2017, 04:16 PM
I think what might help for any of these type swaps is to stay with an aluminum motor w/aluminum heads.
I was watching a video by a leading tuner of LS1 swaps and he mentioned when they use an aluminum block version of the LS they always run 15 to 20 degrees cooler than the iron block versions.
Posted by: mepstein Feb 5 2017, 06:27 PM
Why don't you do it and report back. You don't know until you try. Right?
Posted by: sotaro Feb 27 2017, 09:21 PM
Why don't you do it and report back. You don't know until you try. Right?
I am intrigued by the possibility of adding some kind of skin radiator to the rear trunk hatch. This would be a lot more work than it sounds, but it might be possible to reduce the amount of traditional tube and fin radiator area. Other body additions might include a wing or duck tail. Having two trunks is a great feature, and retaining it is a worth goal. Is it worth giving up high power?
On another topic, the air cooled engine cooling fins are usually quite a bit hotter than the fins of a radiator, often 50 to 100 degrees hotter. This reduces the amount fin area needed needed which is important given the limited fin area possible. Air flow is expensive in horsepower terms. As I remember, the 917 fan took 75 horsepower at maximum rpm.
Posted by: Rand Feb 27 2017, 10:03 PM
Aren't there examples of mid-engined sports/supercars with radiators behind the driver?
It could be done, but at the cost of some significant body mods and/or big ass fans and ducting.
Funny this topic has been discussed since the 70s. Have we seen a proven successful example yet in a 914?
Posted by: mepstein Feb 28 2017, 06:27 AM
Are the radiators in boxters in the front?
Posted by: Andyrew Feb 28 2017, 07:05 AM
Yes. Boxsters have two small ones and boxster S's have a third in the middle hence the small extra opening in the front bumper.
Check out the Neo914 build, he uses those radiators
Posted by: mepstein Feb 28 2017, 07:49 AM
Yes. Boxsters have two small ones and boxster S's have a third in the middle hence the small extra opening in the front bumper.
Check out the Neo914 build, he uses those radiators
So even with a clean sheet of paper, Porsche put the radiators of a mid engine car, in the front.
Posted by: 914forme Feb 28 2017, 09:03 AM
Positive pressure is king to cooling.
And there is enough room in the front of the 914 if you want to do it, but you loose the head light buckets and the pop up lights.
You could also just do the AIR 934 body and just run them in one or both of the side fenders.
I so 
over that car as a kid. 934 engine in the correct place, full Aluminum roll cage. half a 904 sitting in the background of the VW & Porsche mag article. 
No not so much
Posted by: Andyrew Feb 28 2017, 09:17 AM
Yes. Boxsters have two small ones and boxster S's have a third in the middle hence the small extra opening in the front bumper.
Check out the Neo914 build, he uses those radiators
So even with a clean sheet of paper, Porsche put the radiators of a mid engine car, in the front.
Correct, every water cooled porsche has had the radiator up front. They are however very efficient with radiator design in relation to the front bumper and hiding it well so they allow for as large a trunk as possible.
Posted by: Mueller Feb 28 2017, 04:54 PM
Twin side mounted radiators, good enough for a big V8 
https://www.palatov.com/cars/d2/
Posted by: mepstein Feb 28 2017, 07:04 PM
Twin side mounted radiators, good enough for a big V8
https://www.palatov.com/cars/d2/
i thought you were asking for a 914?
Posted by: Steve Feb 28 2017, 07:21 PM
That's about where a six tank would sit. Curious if you could do this on both sides with small coolers and ducts like an MR2
Posted by: tygaboy Feb 28 2017, 07:30 PM
Twin side mounted radiators, good enough for a big V8
https://www.palatov.com/cars/d2/
i thought you were asking for a 914?
I'd LOVE to take on an approach like this as part of my build but I have to say, the car pictured has a bit less bodywork than the average 914. Overall air movement would seem to be a non issue (guesses the non aero engineer...)
Posted by: Mueller Feb 28 2017, 10:59 PM
Twin side mounted radiators, good enough for a big V8
https://www.palatov.com/cars/d2/
i thought you were asking for a 914?
Example of placement, sorry I couldn't find a 914 with the radiators mounted exactly like the car I posted
Posted by: r_towle Mar 1 2017, 12:18 AM
I started to do this on the teenster fabricating "550 like" louvers versus just a duct..
rich
Posted by: thelogo Mar 2 2017, 12:05 AM
So if one were to go thru the trouble of doing the dual
Front boxster or boxster style radiatores
Then can someone explain to me pros and cons
To engine selection, water cooled subaru
Or since you already have the radiator out of it
Why not water boxster or 911 watercooled .
Would sound better then subaru exausht note 
Posted by: thelogo Mar 2 2017, 12:07 AM
Engine width pehaps ?
Boxster engine too wide ?
Posted by: Andyrew Mar 2 2017, 12:15 AM
Yes, those engines are very wide. They hit or get very close to the rear suspension ear.
Also one of the main reasons for engine conversions are for cheap readily available parts.
Posted by: matthepcat Mar 2 2017, 12:21 AM
Would sound better then subaru exausht note
Listen to a video of a Porsche 718 and compare that to a Subaru. Report back.
Posted by: thelogo Mar 2 2017, 12:57 AM
I just want to go on record a 4 cyclinder engine in
A boxster / 718
Or 911 is a bad idea .
If i were porsche i would be embarrassed
A 60 thousand dollar 4 cyclinder car that sounds like a
35 horsepower bug
I heard talk of this but didnt know its now in production.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Mar 2 2017, 09:03 AM
So if one were to go thru the trouble of doing the dual
Front boxster or boxster style radiatores
Then can someone explain to me pros and cons
To engine selection, water cooled subaru
Or since you already have the radiator out of it
Why not water boxster or 911 watercooled .
Would sound better then subaru exausht note
Why Subaru?
Pros:
They are considerable cheaper then Porsche engines.
They are very reliable.
There is a very active modding community built in for them, with tons of aftermarket support.
They fit in a 914 like they were meant to go there.
They make a surprising amount of power for a small displacement engine (268 crank HP out of a bone stock 2.0 in my WRX).
You can use the Subaru transaxle, and have a very modern, strong gearbox with a smooth cable shifter.
A lot of people love the unequal length header sound.
Cons:
Not Porsche. That's pretty much it. If you are a person that means a lot to, then there are aircooled 6s in your future. And there is nothing wrong with that.
Zach
Posted by: DBCooper Mar 2 2017, 10:16 AM
Would sound better then subaru exausht note
If you don't like the Subaru sound then why not just fabricate some equal length headers? If that's the main objection then not difficult to resolve.
To the original question, how often do you fill the entire front trunk with stuff? I have a radiator up there and can still use the majority of the front trunk space for groceries or whatever, I just leave a path for airflow and have never had a problem. And if that's not enough then instead of doing all the work relocating radiators why not just put a luggage rack on the back deck for travel/occasional use? That's easy, cheap, practical, no engineering, guaranteed to work, and done today. Or am I underthinking this?
Posted by: Mueller Mar 2 2017, 11:14 AM
So if one were to go thru the trouble of doing the dual
Front boxster or boxster style radiatores
Then can someone explain to me pros and cons
To engine selection, water cooled subaru
Or since you already have the radiator out of it
Why not water boxster or 911 watercooled .
Would sound better then subaru exausht note
I would say cost is a huge factor in not choosing a Boxster/911 watercooled engine along with fitment issues. They are going to be thousands of dollars more than a Subaru motor (Like $3000 to $5000 more)
Felix is the only person I know that used Boxster radiators, his front end is not stock and I don't see how one could incorporate them in a semi-stock front end with steel bumpers.
The Subaru motors seem like a pretty darn practical choice, and the 6 cylinders motors sound awesome!
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