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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ What to do about fuel delivery in my 2.0?
Posted by: VWTortuga336 Dec 6 2014, 08:53 AM
So I've got my 2.0 completely torn down at this stage in my rebuild. Now I am torn in which direction to go - stay with carbs or go back to FI?
Option 1. Carbs - the car came with dual Weber 40 IDFs, but they are in SAD shape. I'm thinking one will have to be completely replaced, then likely rebuilt after I buy a second hand one. I'll also have to buy a cam and lifters for this setup, as my engine has a stock FI cam. So I'm thinking I'm looking at around $700 to go this route ($200 for a second hand carb, $100 in rebuild kits, $400 for cam and lifters). Here is a pic of the carb in question - yes, half of the butterfly is missing, I found it burnt up inside the cylinder.
Option 2. FI - I would rather take the car back to FI, the way the car is intended to be set up. The FI cam that I have now looks to be in pretty good shape and I'll have someone who knows what they are looking at verify that. So I'm thinking this option would better (for resale, etc.) and I'm HOPING cheaper than carbs. I'm leaning heavily towards this option, but since I'm such a newbie to all this, I'm looking for some input.
Posted by: SLITS Dec 6 2014, 10:01 AM
Unless I am blind, the mounting bosses off the bottom plate of that carb are broken off. You have a junk carburetor!
Posted by: VWTortuga336 Dec 6 2014, 10:07 AM
Unless I am blind, the mounting bosses off the bottom plate of that carb are broken off. You have a junk carburetor!
Yep, they are broken off and stuck to the intake manifold
This effed up carb is part of my motivation to ditch the carb setup and go with FI
Posted by: SLITS Dec 6 2014, 10:35 AM
I have no idea what the bits for a full FI system are going for these days.
List:
1.) ECU
2.) Compatible MPS
3.) Wiring harness (new from Bowlsby @ $400?)
4.) 2.0 Runners with air cleaner attachment plates, Plenum with Air temp sensor, Thermo time sensor, Throttle body with good TPS, cold start valve, air cleaner assembly
5.) Make sure the boss for the CHT in the passenger side head is there and not screwed up.
6.) CHT sensor
7.) Anti flashback valve (head breathers)
8.) Anti backfire valve
9.) Auxillary Air Controller (cold start system)
10.) Bunch of new hoses
11.) Stacked elbow and various other elbows for hose hookup.
12.) New runner sleeves (runner to plenum)
13.) Heat isolaters & gaskets for mounting runners to head.
14.) Refurbished or new injectors.
I think that's about it.
Posted by: Spoke Dec 6 2014, 11:44 AM
I'm planning to rebuild my 2L with new 96mm P/C (2056cc), stock DJET FI, and new cam.
Posted by: stugray Dec 6 2014, 01:08 PM
I have a complete D-Jet system for a 2.0L for sale.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=235286&hl=
$500 plus shipping. Includes extra (spare) key parts.
And if the head on the side of that trashed carb got SO HOT that the base of the carb fused to the head, you are going to need to replace that head.
Posted by: VWTortuga336 Dec 6 2014, 01:16 PM
I have a complete D-Jet system for a 2.0L for sale.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=235286&hl=
$500 plus shipping. Includes extra (spare) key parts.
And if the head on the side of that trashed carb got SO HOT that the base of the carb fused to the head, you are going to need to replace that head.
That looks like a sweet deal! But, I'm not that far along in my build yet, I still need to go get all my parts checked/machined. Once I'm done with assembly, hopefully you still have this for sale.
Also, the broken flange isn't fused to the head, it just looks like a PO over torqued the nuts and the flanges broke, they are just sitting on the intakes.
Posted by: VWTortuga336 Dec 6 2014, 01:18 PM
I'm planning to rebuild my 2L with new 96mm P/C (2056cc), stock DJET FI, and new cam.
I'm also planning on going 2056, what cam are you going with? Are there performance benefits associated with your cam, or is it just a replacement?
Posted by: type47 Dec 6 2014, 02:53 PM
I have a complete D-Jet system for a 2.0L for sale. $500 plus shipping. Includes extra (spare) key parts.
Your best solution. You might install a degree wheel and sensor while you're putting the engine together JIC. Or you could do a purely mechanical FI system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_A7rPcvYCM
Posted by: RobW Dec 6 2014, 03:38 PM
I'm planning to go with the TIV 9590 cam kit which runs $835 for my 2056 build. I already have HAM heads, and plan to rebuild or refurb all of the stock DJET components.
Your best bet is to leave your options open until someone has either a complete and compatible FI set up bundled for sale, or buy someone's 2056 that's running already. Maybe I'm wrong, but people sell their 2.0s far less than the component costs.
Posted by: saigon71 Dec 6 2014, 04:10 PM
I have a complete D-Jet system for a 2.0L for sale. $500 plus shipping. Includes extra (spare) key parts.
Your best solution. You might install a degree wheel and sensor while you're putting the engine together JIC. Or you could do a purely mechanical FI system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_A7rPcvYCM
Sounds great Jim!
Good to see it up & running. The question is...how does she drive?
Posted by: saigon71 Dec 6 2014, 04:17 PM
So I've got my 2.0 completely torn down at this stage in my rebuild. Now I am torn in which direction to go - stay with carbs or go back to FI?
Option 1. Carbs - the car came with dual Weber 40 IDFs, but they are in SAD shape. I'm thinking one will have to be completely replaced, then likely rebuilt after I buy a second hand one. I'll also have to buy a cam and lifters for this setup, as my engine has a stock FI cam. So I'm thinking I'm looking at around $700 to go this route ($200 for a second hand carb, $100 in rebuild kits, $400 for cam and lifters). Here is a pic of the carb in question - yes, half of the butterfly is missing, I found it burnt up inside the cylinder.
Option 2. FI - I would rather take the car back to FI, the way the car is intended to be set up. The FI cam that I have now looks to be in pretty good shape and I'll have someone who knows what they are looking at verify that. So I'm thinking this option would better (for resale, etc.) and I'm HOPING cheaper than carbs. I'm leaning heavily towards this option, but since I'm such a newbie to all this, I'm looking for some input.
Go with option 2 if possible. Stock D-Jet on a stock motor is a fine all around system for reliability, driveability and economy.
The deal someone posted for a complete FI system on this thread seems pretty reasonable and will probably be a more cost effective solution in the long run if your stock cam and lifters are in good shape.
Posted by: mepstein Dec 6 2014, 04:22 PM
So I've got my 2.0 completely torn down at this stage in my rebuild. Now I am torn in which direction to go - stay with carbs or go back to FI?
Option 1. Carbs - the car came with dual Weber 40 IDFs, but they are in SAD shape. I'm thinking one will have to be completely replaced, then likely rebuilt after I buy a second hand one. I'll also have to buy a cam and lifters for this setup, as my engine has a stock FI cam. So I'm thinking I'm looking at around $700 to go this route ($200 for a second hand carb, $100 in rebuild kits, $400 for cam and lifters). Here is a pic of the carb in question - yes, half of the butterfly is missing, I found it burnt up inside the cylinder.
Option 2. FI - I would rather take the car back to FI, the way the car is intended to be set up. The FI cam that I have now looks to be in pretty good shape and I'll have someone who knows what they are looking at verify that. So I'm thinking this option would better (for resale, etc.) and I'm HOPING cheaper than carbs. I'm leaning heavily towards this option, but since I'm such a newbie to all this, I'm looking for some input.
Go with option 2 if possible. Stock D-Jet on a stock motor is a fine all around system for reliability, driveability and economy.
The deal someone posted for a complete FI system on this thread seems pretty reasonable and will probably be a more cost effective solution in the long run if your stock cam and lifters are in good shape.
with bob. Stock fi makes for a really nice driver. Price out carbs with good linkage and you'll see 500 is a good deal.
Posted by: type47 Dec 6 2014, 04:41 PM
...how does she drive?
needs fine tuning or tyno tuning ... and am not happy with the feel of the tranny (wait a minute ...) feel of the shifting of the transmission. (Which has nothing to do w/ the CIS system)
Posted by: VWTortuga336 Dec 7 2014, 11:27 AM
Go with option 2 if possible. Stock D-Jet on a stock motor is a fine all around system for reliability, driveability and economy.
That's the direction I'll go then. Thanks everyone for your input
On a side note, I now have my Weber 40 IDF "parts kit" now for sale in the classifieds, if anyone's interested
Posted by: VWTortuga336 Jan 23 2015, 03:51 PM
So I managed to pick up a GC code locally and I am currently in the rebuild process on it. It came with FI on it, but several pieces are missing, like:
ECU
MPS
CHT
AAR
Thermo Time Switch
Vac Advance Dizzy (currently has a 009)
Cold Start Valve
Fuel Pump
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Wiring Harness
Also, the stock cam & lifters in my engine will have to be replaced, as it has pretty significant lobe wear.
I was pretty gung ho about going the FI route, until I put together the list of all the missing pieces. Also, I have no idea how to troubleshoot an FI system, or to tell if the components I have are good. Throw on top of this the fact that my cam has to be replaced anyway, now I am really leaning toward carbs.
Can anyone talk me off the ledge and convince me to stay my current course, or is my line of thinking correct - should I just switch to carbs? 
Posted by: 76-914 Jan 23 2015, 04:21 PM
Some of the pieces are missing?? You mean all of them 
. That's was a damned sweet offer from Stu. $500 for a complete working DJet system. You'll need to source a dist based on which DJet system you get. Maybe another CHT if MY73 is involved. You won't need the air pump and can block off those ports if they aren't already.
Posted by: VWTortuga336 Jan 23 2015, 04:25 PM
Some of the pieces are missing?? You mean all of them
. That's was a damned sweet offer from Stu. $500 for a complete working DJet system. You'll need to source a dist based on which DJet system you get. Maybe another CHT if MY73 is involved.Yeah, there's not much there. Just the large stuff like plenum, intakes, air box, etc
Posted by: OU8AVW Jan 23 2015, 05:34 PM
Those are the cheap/easy parts. Again, Stu is trying to hook you up. Another good reccomendation is to buy a turn key set up. You'll spend more putting it together yourself, trust me, I just did it. Be patient and a good deal will come along. Figure $500 to ship a motor to your door.
Posted by: Mueller Jan 24 2015, 11:10 AM
Don't discount the L-Jet as used on the 1.8 or 912 2.0, I once had a 914 2.0 with the 1.8 L-Jet on it and it ran great, key is to not have any vac. leaks. I took off the extra hoses and made delrin plugs for the intake boot.
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