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Posted by: saigon71 Dec 7 2014, 09:31 AM
To the collective world knowledge database...
What is the largest size type IV that can built and used safely as a street car without adding an external oil cooler?
Thanks!
Posted by: Dave_Darling Dec 7 2014, 11:29 AM
Depends on a whole lot of factors. The overall efficiency of the engine spec, state of tune of the engine, ambient temps it will be driven through, etc.
I know that a mis-tuned stock motor can require an external oil cooler when driven through Grant's Pass in the summer. And a decently-tuned bone-stock 2.0 can require a cooler when driving through the desert in the summer.
--DD
Posted by: Mueller Dec 7 2014, 12:05 PM
Dave,
Does adding piston squirters put more load on the stock cooler and necessitate an external cooler?
Posted by: Starlack Dec 7 2014, 12:07 PM
I had a 2,4Liter engine with 160 HP . First i drive with this Engine without front oil cooler. Not possible.
In the engine oil temperature immediately goes into the red zone.
Better with front oil cooler but you really have to watch out for the temerature.
The current engine 2,7 typ 4 has a front oil cooler and a fan from the 911
No problems with the oil temperature no matter how I drive
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 7 2014, 12:12 PM
If it is built correctly you likely don't need one in your area, unless you are racing and pulling more then say 3800rpm for long periods of time.
My 2.6 has no over heat issues.
Posted by: Mueller Dec 7 2014, 12:39 PM
If it is built correctly you likely don't need one in your area, unless you are racing and pulling more then say 3800rpm for long periods of time.
My 2.6 has no over heat issues.
Don't Nickies change the dynamics of the cooling?
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 7 2014, 03:12 PM
Yes and no, because I've built both with no over heat issues.
Do not use over 96mm P&C's without Nickies. Any bigger is automatically a misconfigured engine in my book.
That's a pretty basic rule, why Porsche when to an all aluminum cylinder as their engines got bigger.
Adding an oil cooler not really going to help a misconfigured engine, maybe a bit but it's a bandaid solution.
Also maybe you need one in socal, etc., but I'm taking into account the OP's location.
Posted by: r_towle Dec 7 2014, 04:36 PM
Yes and no, because I've built both with no over heat issues.
Do not use over 96mm P&C's without Nickies. Any bigger is automatically a misconfigured engine in my book.
That's a pretty basic rule, why Porsche when to an all aluminum cylinder as their engines got bigger.
Adding an oil cooler not really going to help a misconfigured engine, maybe a bit but it's a bandaid solution.
Also maybe you need one in socal, etc., but I'm taking into account the OP's location.
Now that LN makes nickies, it's a new possibility if you have the money.
For many years, something like 30 years, building 103mm cast iron cylinders was the norm and a typical configuration.
With cast iron cylinders, you really do need a front cooler.
With the nickies, it may help, but I have no experience with the nickies....
I do not consider using cast iron cylinders a mis configured motor or design.....it's just a cheaper way to go that has been proven to last by many builders, many motors etc.
I agree to disagree with Mark on that statement.
Rich
Posted by: colingreene Dec 7 2014, 06:59 PM
Crap wrong thread.
Posted by: crash914 Dec 7 2014, 07:04 PM
103 Nickies, I need an oil cooler...gets real hot real fast if you are romping on it...
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 7 2014, 08:43 PM
103 Nickies, I need an oil cooler...gets real hot real fast if you are romping on it...
But you are racing... correct?
OP said "street car".
Posted by: mepstein Dec 8 2014, 07:20 AM
It can get hot here in the summer. And my worry would be a summertime traffic jam. Not uncommon on the way to the beach, driving through a city or just the wrong time/wrong place/accident/road construction. Crawling along for 5-10 miles on a hot summer day on the blacktop will heat up any engine. Got to plan for the possibilities.
Posted by: crash914 Dec 8 2014, 10:56 AM
I get hot with just street driving. Now I do keep high revs in a higher gear...like 6k in second..
Posted by: ClayPerrine Dec 8 2014, 12:07 PM
Yes and no, because I've built both with no over heat issues.
Do not use over 96mm P&C's without Nickies. Any bigger is automatically a misconfigured engine in my book.
That's a pretty basic rule, why Porsche when to an all aluminum cylinder as their engines got bigger.
Adding an oil cooler not really going to help a misconfigured engine, maybe a bit but it's a bandaid solution.
Also maybe you need one in socal, etc., but I'm taking into account the OP's location.
Mark, you may never need one considering the average summer temp for Port Hope, Ontario is 25 degrees C (77 degrees F) . Kinda like Germany for climate.
Betty's stock 1.8L needs an external oil cooler for two reasons. 1. Because the average summer temp is 102 degrees F (38.8 degrees C). and 2. The AC load on the car increases the engine temp. I run the oil cooler without a thermostat, because it doesn't get cold enough in the winter to need one. (It is 53 degrees F today, December 8th.)
Before you start yelling about a mis-configured engine, I have everything set according to factory specs, including the CO.
The 914 owners in the desert southwest need an external oil cooer more than the Texas owners do. So it all depends on where you live. The 914 was designed with temps in Germany for the cooling load, so adding a cooler should be based on the regular oil temps you run on a regular basis. If it is too high, add the cooler.
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 8 2014, 03:55 PM
Yelling? Would you like to discuss your feelings? Panties bunching up? Do you need a Midol?
Then we all know it starts snowing right at the Canadian border. 
You are changing the perimeters of the OP's question to suit your POV.
PA is only about 300 miles south of here as the crow flies.
Also the OP never mentioned that he has AC
And BTW read the last line in that quote you posted, (sorry I only put Texas as an etc, my bad):
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