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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Original 6's for sale
Posted by: mepstein Dec 26 2014, 08:40 PM
Does anyone but me feel like there are more original 6's than is expected. Rust and crashes must have taken out quite a few over the years. I have no proof, just a feeling...
Posted by: rgalla9146 Dec 26 2014, 08:59 PM
Same as Speedsters.
No matter the condition.
Stashed away.
Just waiting......
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 26 2014, 09:04 PM
Prices are up, peeps looking to cash in.
Posted by: 914Sixer Dec 26 2014, 10:03 PM
Sixes are showing up regularly as Mark said. I remember that Porsche only sent about half the total production came to the US, so that means about 1650 + or - came to these shores. My guess would be 1/2 to 2/3 are gone due to the 40 + year time frame, so that would not leave that many cars around.
Posted by: RobW Dec 26 2014, 10:28 PM
If you've been around awhile you start to recognize the same cars recycling until they end up in Europe.... 
Posted by: Alphaogre Dec 26 2014, 10:39 PM
I agree I think with prices going up, more people are letting them surface to sell. I also think 914 is the forgotten step child of the collections so they probably are not brought out and changing hands as much as the 911s and 356s.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Dec 27 2014, 07:58 AM
I have felt the same way each time a Six pops up. I would have bet 50% of the Sixes had been destroyed in accidents and/or crushed when they rusted to death. Yet a new one pops up regularly. These must have been holed-up for years in locked garages.
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Dec 27 2014, 08:07 AM
When I bought my six (1921) it was advertised here, 7 years ago. Belonged to Pete Kaufman, who is the former President of Potomac PCA & became a member here just to sell his car (much more of a 911 guy). It had had a boatload of work done to it over the course of it's life & had multiple, multiple owners. I'm not sure but I think I'm either the 13th or 14th owner of the car so she's been around a few times. When a real six pops up I think it's best to keep track of the numbers & see how many times the cars get relisted.
Posted by: fixer34 Dec 27 2014, 08:43 AM
I have felt the same way each time a Six pops up. I would have bet 50% of the Sixes had been destroyed in accidents and/or crushed when they rusted to death. Yet a new one pops up regularly. These must have been holed-up for years in locked garages.
I just added mine to the registry when I joined a few months back. Not exactly holed up, but not driven regularly. As far as I know, I'm only the third or fourth owner and it hasn't changed hands in over 37 years. Barring major changes to my health, it's not likely to either.
Posted by: rick 918-S Dec 27 2014, 08:54 AM
is there a way to sort the vin's listed here to see how many 6"s have been registered on this site? I'm not as computer savvy as some of you guys.
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 27 2014, 09:23 AM
is there a way to sort the vin's listed here to see how many 6"s have been registered on this site? I'm not as computer savvy as some of you guys.
Sounds like a job for DaveP!
Posted by: GeorgeRud Dec 27 2014, 09:45 AM
I'm the second owner of my -6, and originally bought it from southern Illinois in 1977. As with others ones, it's been driven less and less frequently through the years and only coming out to club events these days. Over the years, it has been continually improved and maintained to keep it fresh, and I think there are quite a few enthusiasts that have done the same with these cars. If health permits, it's probably not going anywhere soon. 
Posted by: r_towle Dec 27 2014, 11:14 AM
It does not seem to me like we are at the place when more 914-6 cars will show up then the overall number that was made, like ferraris.
These cars are easy to document, and the value is too low to have lots of people making the effort to do it at the level that it would pass a real inspection.
There are quite a few unique things that need to be changed over, especially the inner fender stamped number, which would come from a real six body.....so that would not increase the overall number of sixes anyways.
Yes, they are going up in value, it's the best of the breed, and it will continue to happen.
Happily it will drag all of our lowly four cylinder cars up with it.
On the east coast, it's fun to be one of the few old Porsches around, it's even a reality with my 84 911 just due to rust on this coast.
Rich
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 27 2014, 11:58 AM
Not as much, but you still have to be diligent if in the market. There was a certain scumbag vendor who tried to sell on ebay a /6 title and the fender stampings a couple years ago. And there was the case where a guy bought a six only to find out it was two cars (/6 front, /4 rear) welded together.
Posted by: Larmo63 Dec 27 2014, 12:09 PM
So, I can't just rivet on a couple of ID plates and do a 911 steering column and have a real 914-6?
Posted by: Mueller Dec 27 2014, 12:43 PM
I'm the second owner of my -6, and originally bought it from southern Illinois in 1977. As with others ones, it's been driven less and less frequently through the years and only coming out to club events these days. Over the years, it has been continually improved and maintained to keep it fresh, and I think there are quite a few enthusiasts that have done the same with these cars. If health permits, it's probably not going anywhere soon.
Great looking car George, it would look better here in Sunny California
I owned a real /6 for about a week, it ended up going back to Germany...
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Dec 27 2014, 01:19 PM
So, I can't just rivet on a couple of ID plates and do a 911 steering column and have a real 914-6?
Nope. Steering column & tumbler lock (therefore wiring too). No right side dash vent or the vent plumbing to go with it, therefore bigger glove box (they might have added the vent & smaller box in 72 but I'm not sure). Sixes also have a VIN that start w/ "914" so the number stamped on the right front fender would have to be changed as well as the matching plate & door jamb sticker. Plate up front also says Porsche, not VW so good luck finding a new one of those. Headlight covers/wraps would have to be white, not black. Then there's the throttle lever as well, although those seem to be available. No 4 cylinder engine mounts or motor bar, six mounts welded to the firewall. A COA would confirm the engine serial number in a heartbeat so you'd have to state it's not the original engine. Unobtanium rear six brakes also required, along w/ all 4 wheels being converted to 5 lug. Rear trunk chassis number has to be in the middle rear, not right rear corner. In other words, it would take a boatload of work & "forgery" to turn a 4 into a fake 6. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things as well that more knowledgeable people can point out.
Posted by: SirAndy Dec 27 2014, 01:28 PM
is there a way to sort the vin's listed here to see how many 6"s have been registered on this site? I'm not as computer savvy as some of you guys.
There are plenty of filters on that page, you can filter by:
- By year
- By type (4 or 6 etc.)
- By color
So, to list all original /6 cars, go to
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=membervins
and on the top under "List by Type" click on the "914-6 (1970-1972)" link ...
Posted by: mepstein Dec 27 2014, 03:20 PM
So, I can't just rivet on a couple of ID plates and do a 911 steering column and have a real 914-6?
Nope. Steering column & tumbler lock (therefore wiring too). No right side dash vent or the vent plumbing to go with it, therefore bigger glove box (they might have added the vent & smaller box in 72 but I'm not sure). Sixes also have a VIN that start w/ "914" so the number stamped on the right front fender would have to be changed as well as the matching plate & door jamb sticker. Plate up front also says Porsche, not VW so good luck finding a new one of those. Headlight covers/wraps would have to be white, not black. Then there's the throttle lever as well, although those seem to be available. No 4 cylinder engine mounts or motor bar, six mounts welded to the firewall. A COA would confirm the engine serial number in a heartbeat so you'd have to state it's not the original engine. Unobtanium rear six brakes also required, along w/ all 4 wheels being converted to 5 lug. Rear trunk chassis number has to be in the middle rear, not right rear corner. In other words, it would take a boatload of work & "forgery" to turn a 4 into a fake 6. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things as well that more knowledgeable people can point out.
If I had a trashed 6 and an early 4 body. I could have it done and it would be invisible to all but a few.
And those few would have to look REALLY hard.
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Dec 27 2014, 03:37 PM
If I had a trashed 6 and an early 4 body. I could have it done and it would be invisible to all but a few.
And those few would have to look REALLY hard.
I didn't say it couldn't be done, but you're talking a boatload of work & after all that labor you have to wonder if you'd break even, much less make a profit. It's expensive enough to fix a rustbucket, & finding all the right 6 parts is going to cost you plenty more on top of all the other work. Oh yea, I forgot the windshield VIN plate before.
Posted by: mepstein Dec 27 2014, 03:58 PM
If I had a trashed 6 and an early 4 body. I could have it done and it would be invisible to all but a few.
And those few would have to look REALLY hard.
I didn't say it couldn't be done, but you're talking a boatload of work & after all that labor you have to wonder if you'd break even, much less make a profit. It's expensive enough to fix a rustbucket, & finding all the right 6 parts is going to cost you plenty more on top of all the other work.
Your not quite getting me. Start out with a rusty or bent orig 6. Switch all the parts and the unique sheet metal bits. I know it's done. I wonder how often.
Posted by: SirAndy Dec 27 2014, 04:03 PM
More often than you think, i know of quite a few. For some, i even have before and after pictures.
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Dec 27 2014, 04:06 PM
Your not quite getting me. Start out with a rusty or bent orig 6. Switch all the parts and the unique sheet metal bits. I know it's done. I wonder how often.
I get ya, but so much work would have to exceed the value of the car, no? Cutting out the stamped VIN & chassis numbers, & then welding them into the 4, w/out damaging them, grinding down the weld seams... you could do a fabulous job, but after all that work could you make a profit? After all that work, would you want to sell her?
Posted by: gandalf_025 Dec 27 2014, 04:13 PM
I'm sure, if I were to place a "for sale" ad for my car, I'd generate some
skepticism.. I'd advertise it as a
2 owner matching number car, documentation of my purchase from local Porsche Dealer in 1973.
Original engine put on a shelf in 1977. Parked 1988 and sitting since. 56,000 miles.
Car is sitting in a Body Shop now, and should be painted in the next week. I dropped it off there on Oct. 15th
and in the 41 years I've owned it, this is the longest it has been out of my sight and not in my possession.
I'm sure there are more than a few more like mine.. Sitting, waiting for the timing and finances to come together ...
Posted by: mepstein Dec 27 2014, 04:27 PM
Your not quite getting me. Start out with a rusty or bent orig 6. Switch all the parts and the unique sheet metal bits. I know it's done. I wonder how often.
I get ya, but so much work would have to exceed the value of the car, no? Cutting out the stamped VIN & chassis numbers, & then welding them into the 4, w/out damaging them, grinding down the weld seams... you could do a fabulous job, but after all that work could you make a profit? After all that work, would you want to sell her?
That would cost a couple hundred dollars-1k to make it perfect.
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Dec 27 2014, 04:34 PM
That would cost a couple hundred dollars-1k to make it perfect.
Well, w/ what you've posted & Andy posted I guess I'm wrong & you could make a profit doing it then, and it is done. However it's still so much work I'd want to keep it for myself
Posted by: mepstein Dec 27 2014, 05:33 PM
That would cost a couple hundred dollars-1k to make it perfect.
Well, w/ what you've posted & Andy posted I guess I'm wrong & you could make a profit doing it then, and it is done. However it's still so much work I'd want to keep it for myself
And by the way, full disclosure, my six conversion car "Mepstein build thread" is a vin switch. The shop that built it used an early body and a 74 vin. I don't know why.
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Dec 27 2014, 05:41 PM
And by the way, full disclosure, my six conversion car "Mepstein build thread" is a vin switch. The shop that built it used an early body and a 74 vin. I don't know why.
Odd. Why use a 74 VIN on a six conversion? I can understand the early body, (not much difference), but a 74 VIN switch? I can understand your bewilderment
Posted by: mepstein Dec 27 2014, 06:10 PM
And by the way, full disclosure, my six conversion car "Mepstein build thread" is a vin switch. The shop that built it used an early body and a 74 vin. I don't know why.
Odd. Why use a 74 VIN on a six conversion? I can understand the early body, (not much difference), but a 74 VIN switch? I can understand your bewilderment
It was not a conversion car until recently. It was sold to me in 1984 as a restored and modified '74.
Posted by: mepstein Dec 27 2014, 06:16 PM
BTW - my thread is not directed to any specific seller or 6 owner. I'm just curious to what other 914 owners think about this.
Posted by: stevegm Dec 27 2014, 06:16 PM
And by the way, full disclosure, my six conversion car "Mepstein build thread" is a vin switch. The shop that built it used an early body and a 74 vin. I don't know why.
Odd. Why use a 74 VIN on a six conversion? I can understand the early body, (not much difference), but a 74 VIN switch? I can understand your bewilderment
It was not a conversion car until recently. It was sold to me in 1984 as a restored and modified '74.
I saw that car at Scotty's. It's gonna be very nice when it is done. They are doing it right all the way.
Posted by: Larmo63 Dec 27 2014, 06:27 PM
Uhhhh, my comment was a joke……..
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Dec 27 2014, 07:11 PM
Uhhhh, my comment was a joke……..
Ok, I'll shut up now
Posted by: rgalla9146 Dec 27 2014, 08:23 PM
All you need is a rusted out 6, a good '70 or '71 chassis, and the skill that forty members here have. It's not too tough.
Then you sell the car for three times (or five times) what you can get for the 4 cyl.
All that money !
Then the proud new owner bumps into one of the other 39 experts. (who might know a bit more than you)
Then you're bent over a sink in the state slammer.
Posted by: r_towle Dec 27 2014, 10:03 PM
Building up a car from a scrapped out rusted six happens, and will continue to happen as the price goes up.
It still will not increase the overall number of sixes on the market because there are only a certain number of VIN number available.
Sure it can be done, the 356 market builds whole cars around the vin plate.....not a big deal.
Now, go find a real six with the right pieces and have fun.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Dec 27 2014, 10:42 PM
Those predisposed to fraud will do what ever they do to take advantage of others and game the system. Some get caught and it costs them quite a bit and some even go to jail/prison.
Others choose to do the right thing despite the real costs of restoring one of these rare cars.
Posted by: Joe Sharp Dec 28 2014, 03:18 AM
If I had a trashed 6 and an early 4 body. I could have it done and it would be invisible to all but a few.
And those few would have to look REALLY hard.
I didn't say it couldn't be done, but you're talking a boatload of work & after all that labor you have to wonder if you'd break even, much less make a profit. It's expensive enough to fix a rustbucket, & finding all the right 6 parts is going to cost you plenty more on top of all the other work. Oh yea, I forgot the windshield VIN plate before.
When I bought my-6 the first I thought was that the numbers on the A pillar was a fake plate it looked hand made. I know I can do that. It's just a matter of getting the correct faunt.
Posted by: funk Dec 28 2014, 04:22 AM
the infamous 915 sounds like a bit of counter fit art.what a bunch of snobs.On topic though, really just because you are looking for the 914-6 psychologically makes more of them out there. like just because that's what your looking for.If you know what I mean?
Posted by: carr914 Dec 28 2014, 06:47 AM
Does anyone but me feel like there are more original 6's than is expected. Rust and crashes must have taken out quite a few over the years. I have no proof, just a feeling...
Not really. Until recently, they weren't worth a lot. They have always been available, sometimes they come in waves. In 2007, I bought 4 of them.
Posted by: r_towle Dec 28 2014, 10:33 AM
the infamous 915 sounds like a bit of counter fit art.what a bunch of snobs.On topic though, really just because you are looking for the 914-6 psychologically makes more of them out there. like just because that's what your looking for.If you know what I mean?
What?
Posted by: scotty b Dec 28 2014, 03:02 PM
the infamous 915 sounds like a bit of counter fit art.what a bunch of snobs.On topic though, really just because you are looking for the 914-6 psychologically makes more of them out there. like just because that's what your looking for.If you know what I mean?
When Nike comes calling, the tiger will be in the tank. North Korea and all that jazz of banned Gucci socks went the way of the wailing wall. Jerusalem and the stylish Birkenstocks of the day are having LSD parties in the garden of pandas. Santa came for a visit and wore his Reeboks. A wise choice for a wise man, though quite outdated. Would you be caught dead in a Yugo ? I didn't think so. Slenderman knows what's up when he flaunts his Bruno Mahles on the backstreets of London. Food for thought....Perhaps Bigfoot hasn't been found because he wears Air Jordans ?
Porsche C303S makes the 302C seem incompetent on any desktop, however the 303S has it major advantages, in that it can show you all the hip styles from the mid 80's. Have a safe and happy new years in your fresh, stylish ZapposPosted by: r_towle Dec 28 2014, 03:09 PM
the infamous 915 sounds like a bit of counter fit art.what a bunch of snobs.On topic though, really just because you are looking for the 914-6 psychologically makes more of them out there. like just because that's what your looking for.If you know what I mean?
When Nike comes calling, the tiger will be in the tank. North Korea and all that jazz of banned Gucci socks went the way of the wailing wall. Jerusalem and the stylish Birkenstocks of the day are having LSD parties in the garden of pandas. Santa came for a visit and wore his Reeboks. A wise choice for a wise man, though quite outdated. Would you be caught dead in a Yugo ? I didn't think so. Slenderman knows what's up when he flaunts his Bruno Mahles on the backstreets of London. Food for thought....Perhaps Bigfoot hasn't been found because he wears Air Jordans ?
Porsche C303S makes the 302C seem incompetent on any desktop, however the 303S has it major advantages, in that it can show you all the hip styles from the mid 80's. Have a safe and happy new years in your fresh, stylish ZapposMakes much more sense now, thank you.
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 28 2014, 03:10 PM
Funk and Scooter...could you please put the lid back on the paint thinner can.
Posted by: TJB/914 Dec 28 2014, 03:53 PM
Funk and Scooter...could you please put the lid back on the paint thinner can.
Hey Mark,
What did that Scooter guy say???
I need a simple Canadian explanation, please??
Us normal 914 people need help.
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Tom
Posted by: scotty b Dec 28 2014, 04:11 PM
Funk and Scooter...could you please put the lid back on the paint thinner can.
no thinner for me
this merriest of seasons
but Funk is quite durnk
Posted by: scotty b Dec 28 2014, 04:12 PM
Funk and Scooter...could you please put the lid back on the paint thinner can.
Us normal 914 people need help.
Tom
Posted by: scotty b Dec 28 2014, 04:13 PM
seriously though, isn't there a guy in Atlanta that sells -6 VIN tags for legit conversions ? 
Posted by: TJB/914 Dec 28 2014, 04:59 PM
Funk and Scooter...could you please put the lid back on the paint thinner can.
Us normal 914 people need help.
Tom
Scooter guy.
Have a Safe & Happy New Year's Eve.
We really understand you and your brilliant ability to express words. Sometimes when I sneak into The Sandbox website I am starting to understand your discussions with Dr. Evil???
There is hope for us normal 914 people. 
BTW: Your restoration workmanship is
Beautiful paint jobs. Back on subject: This summer I went to our local market for fresh strawberry's and a beautiful original 914-6 (silver) was sitting in the parking lot. I be-friended the guy and promised to never give out his vin # & info per his request. He is a proud 2nd owner and the 6 is a beauty. Hopefully I'll get an invitation to tour around town with him in Petoskey next summer with my 914-4. They are out there and hiding.
Tom
Posted by: funk Dec 28 2014, 10:19 PM
I didn't think my reply was that mystical. Certainly not as mystical as a 914 electrical system.I was just trying to say it seems like the more you look for something the more you will find it. Like when the d.c. sniper witnesses said the sniper shot from a white van. white vans started popping up everywhere. Season's greetings to all and to all a good night!!!!
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 28 2014, 10:28 PM
Sorry Scooter....
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2014, 03:03 PM
Funk and Scooter...could you please put the lid back on the paint thinner can.
Us normal 914 people need help.
Tom
Scooter guy.
Have a Safe & Happy New Year's Eve.
We really understand you and your brilliant ability to express words. Sometimes when I sneak into The Sandbox website I am starting to understand your discussions with Dr. Evil???
There is hope for us normal 914 people. BTW: Your restoration workmanship is
Beautiful paint jobs. Back on subject: This summer I went to our local market for fresh strawberry's and a beautiful original 914-6 (silver) was sitting in the parking lot. I be-friended the guy and promised to never give out his vin # & info per his request. He is a proud 2nd owner and the 6 is a beauty. Hopefully I'll get an invitation to tour around town with him in Petoskey next summer with my 914-4. They are out there and hiding.
Tom
All I got was strawberries can make you hallucinate and imagine 914-6's are popping up all over the place, but when you try to remember, there is no proof.
Rich
Posted by: rick 918-S Dec 29 2014, 03:57 PM
Let the flaming begin!
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/ford_models2.html
Posted by: r_towle Dec 29 2014, 04:20 PM
Let the flaming begin!
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/ford_models2.html
I would do that is a heartbeat.
Cheaper than paying you....
rich
Posted by: rick 918-S Dec 29 2014, 04:22 PM
Let the flaming begin!
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/ford_models2.html
I would do that is a heartbeat.
Cheaper than paying you....
rich
Posted by: fixer34 Dec 29 2014, 04:34 PM
seriously though, isn't there a guy in Atlanta that sells -6 VIN tags for legit conversions ?
..legit conversions...
At the risk of opening a can of worms, isn't this a bit of an oxymoron??
I believe the initial question was regarding 'original' -6's. Seems like I should need more than a small plate and several square inches of steel with numbers stamped into them to be 'legit'.
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Dec 29 2014, 05:12 PM
Someone recently posted somewhere on a 356 aluminum Gmund coupe that just won a prize a Pebble Beach, & it's owned by Peter Porsche. The whole car is new, but it qualifies as a restoration because they transferred the VIN & chassis numbers, as well as the matching numbers engine. So if as stated before you have a trashed six with all it's original stuff & you move it all over to a 4 chassis, numbers & all, it's a legitimate six. Not original, but restored & legitimate.
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 29 2014, 05:13 PM
seriously though, isn't there a guy in Atlanta that sells -6 VIN tags for legit conversions ?
..legit conversions...
At the risk of opening a can of worms, isn't this a bit of an oxymoron??
I believe the initial question was regarding 'original' -6's. Seems like I should need more than a small plate and several square inches of steel with numbers stamped into them to be 'legit'.
Scooter was being flippant.
AA certain someone was trying to do this on ebay and was met with aa total shitstorm on this board.
Sorry I stutter, I'm Canadian eh-eh....
Posted by: Joe Sharp Dec 29 2014, 05:29 PM
Original only happens one time. Those conversions are still a dressed up 4.
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 29 2014, 08:12 PM
Original only happens one time. Those conversions are still a dressed up 4.
Pete from RD said they may have enough panels for a "body in white" in a few years. So if you stick a couple of plates on one is it a real /6?
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Dec 29 2014, 08:32 PM
What does real mean? I agree w/ Joe in that original is original only once. Fully restored is no longer original, but it appears to be taken as legitimate by the car collector culture. Then you have my LE- unrestored, maintained, 48k original miles but it's been repainted- what do you call that? This is turning into a discussion over vocabulary & grammar.
Posted by: Hank914 Dec 29 2014, 10:05 PM
"Then you have my LE- unrestored, maintained, 48k original miles but it's been repainted- what do you call that?"
Is that what a survivor is? And I seem to remember an article about an unrestored, moderately rusted Ferrari (no re spray) sold for multiple millions, even with massive miles. No completely restored, rebuild needed. Just sell as a drivable barn find. But first drive it as it was meant to be driven when it was first built. No garage queen, just a used, but rare, Ferrari. In 15-20 more years, your LE will be worth big bucks just as it looks today, even with 148,000 miles. Enjoy it as the Porsche builders made it to be enjoyed.
"This is turning into a discussion over vocabulary & grammar."
I went to a public school, proper English grammar was a foreign language elective that I did not take.
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