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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ LS1 or smokin hot type 4 ?
Posted by: got914? Dec 28 2014, 08:50 PM
Hey everyone, just considering the above.
An LS1 is 350 hp and with the factory injection will both start and run like a dream.
A real done up type 4 will sound much nicer but obviolsuy about a bit more than half the power.
Posted by: mgp4591 Dec 28 2014, 09:22 PM
I'd think all that heat from a built up 4 is gonna have to go somewhere... any built engine is like a bomb- the more volatile it is the shorter the fuse!
Posted by: Bruce Hinds Dec 28 2014, 10:02 PM
They'd be different cars for sure.
I went the 4 route many years ago. I had Zimms build up my 2.0 with cam, milled heads, webers . . . etc. It didn't have much low end, but it was a screamer and ran really well.
Shortly after getting the car back I read a story about one of the first V8 conversions and found I could have done that for the same money or less. That's probably still an accurate assessment.
So, that's just what I did. I actually had the SBC built the way I wanted and the cost of the Renegade set-up and all came out to less than I'd spend for the hot rod 4.
Posted by: thelogo Dec 28 2014, 10:07 PM
Yeah your not gonna ever find much that beat s the l s motor as far as driveability
And of course it's common knowledge that the 4 is not made for or ever intended as a high power ,output motor with reliability. Duh . Any 4 over 100. Horses is pushin it imho ...
So I would say good old pushrod v8 is the way but I personally will never put the radiator out front or
Sacrifice my trucks so , when they figure that out I wanna be in the l s club too.
But 350 horse stock tires and brakes . You had better have some self control . Or install traction control
Posted by: larryM Dec 28 2014, 10:09 PM
depends on what you want to do with it
if you just want a cafe & NASA racer and something to terrorize the drift crowd & stoplight racers, - go for the LS
an LS car would not be eligible for Porsche Club events
check the PCA rules, which require a Porsche engine
Posted by: thelogo Dec 28 2014, 10:20 PM
P c a Thats a laugh I though this was narp
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 28 2014, 10:46 PM
To me once you go V8 you lost the whole point of owning a 914.
Big type 4 about 150hp or do a subi conversion.
But all of this costs money, my suggestion is to actually drive the car before you change things.
Posted by: speed metal army Dec 28 2014, 10:55 PM
To me once you go V8 you lost the whole point of owning a 914.
Big type 4 about 150hp or do a subi conversion.
But all of this costs money, my suggestion is to actually drive the car before you change things.
Wrong, Wrong, you are wrong.
Lost the whole point of owning a 914?Really??That is funny 
Having driven both I can say both are fun. One sounds different, goes much quicker/faster and as long as suspension and braking upgrades are made, both handle like crazy. The whole point of owning a 914 is to have a wicked handling quick little car(gokart) that is super fun to boot!Not possible with a V8? Bah!
Possibly even more fun.My 2cents
Posted by: PotterPorsche Dec 28 2014, 10:58 PM
If I wanted a v8 I would install in a boxster like renagade did. Why not porsche 3.0 ,or 3.2 . If I had the money it would be 3.2 or 3.6 porsche engine. But for now I've begun collecting parts for 78mm x96mm
Posted by: Mike Bellis Dec 28 2014, 11:15 PM
I think it's funny how so many are against V8 conversions but not against a subi. You will not be able to get 350hp cheaper than with a V8. For those who have driven a V88 914, it's hard to go back to a lower hp level.
I think the 914 is a great platform for engine conversions of any type. A big T4 will cost you $$$ but you will get more points from the purists.
If the suspension and brakes are setup correctly, a V8 is a blast to drive. A T4 can be a blast as well. A big T4 will cost way more than most us us can justify. You can build a 100-150hp T4 but that will still cost you $5K-$10K.
Posted by: mgp4591 Dec 29 2014, 04:32 AM
To me once you go V8 you lost the whole point of owning a 914.
Big type 4 about 150hp or do a subi conversion.
But all of this costs money, my suggestion is to actually drive the car before you change things.
I understand your point of view, but isn't that like saying "If you put a Ford V8 into an AC Ace you ruin the point of owning the AC" ? If Carroll Shelby had thought like that we'd have lost one of the iconic hotrods of all time! The 914 platform is the best of alot of worlds- mid engine, 2 seater, independant suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, unit body construction, etc. etc. When all features are equally upgraded, you've got yourself one hell of a fun car! Or leave it stock- it's still fun!
Posted by: CptTripps Dec 29 2014, 08:28 AM
The V8 changes the weight dynamics of the car. You also lose 1st gear unless you spend a lot of money on converting the trans.
Hot 4 if you don't want to do a lot of work with installing a radiator and everything that goes with it.
Subie of you don't mind installing a radiator and want to keep the weight the same with adding a lot of HP.
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 29 2014, 08:54 AM
Ha ha. So I'm sitting here thinking that there must be a bunch of Ace Owners Club of America members out there still grumbling about how Shelby "ruined the character" of their damned fine car. Decades ago I worked with a guy who looked at both and chose to buy the Corvette because it had roll-up windows and the Cobra didn't. And he was still angry with himself about that. The lesson? Go for the gold.
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 29 2014, 09:21 AM
The V8 changes the weight dynamics of the car. You also lose 1st gear unless you spend a lot of money on converting the trans.
Hot 4 if you don't want to do a lot of work with installing a radiator and everything that goes with it.
Subie of you don't mind installing a radiator and want to keep the weight the same with adding a lot of HP.
This is my point, at least a subi is still a flat four or six.
Personally I'd never do anything but a T4 or /6 on a nice 914.
I admit it's personal preference, I've just never cared for these conversions.
Posted by: jgara962 Dec 29 2014, 09:30 AM
Put in a big Type 4. The car will have plenty of power and remain light and nimble. Putting a V8 (or anything other than a Type 4 or 6) ruins the car IMHO. If you want a V8 go buy a POS muscle car.
Posted by: sb914 Dec 29 2014, 09:42 AM
Wow
Posted by: GeorgeRud Dec 29 2014, 09:54 AM
You'll never be disappointed with a -6 conversion as that's what the factory intended from the beginning. ( No disrespect to Jake or any other builders of high horsepower type4 engines).
It's your car, so do what floats you boat.
Posted by: mgp4591 Dec 29 2014, 09:58 AM
Lycoming? 
Continental?? 
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 29 2014, 10:03 AM
Put in a big Type 4. The car will have plenty of power and remain light and nimble. Putting a V8 (or anything other than a Type 4 or 6) ruins the car IMHO. If you want a V8 go buy a POS muscle car.
POS? Seriously? Yup, turn down that Cobra... stay with the Ace.
Posted by: jgara962 Dec 29 2014, 10:08 AM
Put in a big Type 4. The car will have plenty of power and remain light and nimble. Putting a V8 (or anything other than a Type 4 or 6) ruins the car IMHO. If you want a V8 go buy a POS muscle car.
POS? Seriously? Yup, turn down that Cobra... stay with the Ace.
How many Cobras do you own?
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 29 2014, 10:34 AM
How many Cobras do you own?
Ha ha, I wish. But I've come close enough to know the difference, and close enough to know that I prefer the Cobra to the Ace. But who wouldn't? Which was the point.
Posted by: era vulgaris Dec 29 2014, 10:43 AM
Put in a big Type 4. The car will have plenty of power and remain light and nimble. Putting a V8 (or anything other than a Type 4 or 6) ruins the car IMHO. If you want a V8 go buy a POS muscle car.
I actually agree with you. I personally can't stand muscle cars. I'll take a 36hp 50's Beetle over an old Camaro every day of the week.
But I'm in love with air-cooled engines. I think going water-cooled loses a bit of the quirkiness of these cars. I also prefer originality, and keeping it an air-cooled 4 or 6 keeps it in line with Porsche's original intention.
But honestly if someone wants to chop up their car and go water-cooled, I'm all for it. The fewer true-to-original-form 914's there are out there, the more mine will be worth in the long run!
Posted by: Bruce Hinds Dec 29 2014, 10:53 AM
Wow . . .
Interesting that nobody actually mentioned that the V8 doesn't weigh that much more. I don't know how much lighter the LS is than the SBC, but the iron head and block SBC with all associated hardware only adds 250 lbs to the total car weight and the weight distribution is still 49/51%. It's no more than noticeable than taking a big friend for a ride.
The purist will bark all day long about how you ruin the handling, and the need to go bigger wheels and brakes. I agree to some extent, but the modification don't have to be extreme.
Drive one before you decide . . .
Posted by: madmax914 Dec 29 2014, 11:23 AM
If you're wanting HP and handling than you really need to consider a Subaru conversion. A 2.5 STI motor can be bought for around the same price as an LS1 all aluminum block motor. The Subaru is lighter and has the low center of gravity that the 914 was designed for so your handling is not compromised. The 5-speed Subie transmission works great under the 914 chassis, so you have modern motor with modern fuel injection and a much better transmission. Conversion cost wise you are very comparable to the LS conversion. And the Subaru internals can easily support up to 500hp if you wish. And after market support is huge.
Posted by: JRust Dec 29 2014, 11:36 AM
You would be amazed at how tame you can drive the LS motor in a 914. It is absolutely sweet & can be driven by a grandma. The power is there if you want it but that motor is so light. It is a sweet conversion. If you keep the modern FI on it. I know one guy who is running a carb on his. Not sure if that changes the driveability but doubt it does. With the exception of elevation changes you get with any carb setup.
I do love the Subaru conversions too. I lean a little more that way but only because I have one now. I also have more to do another Subaru conversion. Otherwise the LS motor would get done. You can use the 901 if you aren't an idiot. Clutch drops will kill it & you can't use 1st. Still with an "h" gear for 5th it's a great setup. Ideally I would want a Boxster S 6 speed tranny mated to the LS motor.
To each his own & I would not personally do a conversion in a nice stock car. Give me a car that has had some changes & I have no problem doing exactly what I want 
Posted by: CptTripps Dec 29 2014, 11:44 AM
Wow . . .
Interesting that nobody actually mentioned that the V8 doesn't weigh that much more. I don't know how much lighter the LS is than the SBC, but the iron head and block SBC with all associated hardware only adds 250 lbs to the total car weight and the weight distribution is still 49/51%. It's no more than noticeable than taking a big friend for a ride.
The purist will bark all day long about how you ruin the handling, and the need to go bigger wheels and brakes. I agree to some extent, but the modification don't have to be extreme.
The weight may not change all that much, but WHERE the weight is does effect the car. I bought my car with a SB350 and am changing to a Subie for this exact reason. (And the trans...and the turbo...and the other upgrades possible.)
Drive one before you decide . . .
Best advice so far.
Posted by: boxstr Dec 29 2014, 11:55 AM
I have owned 5 914 v8 conversions. And I loved everyone of them. They are a blast to drive, and they can go slow as well as very fast.
The one thing that they must have are really good brakes. One of the ones I had was equipped with front Brembo brakes. The rears were also Brmebos, it did eliminate the park brake. That car had 417 hp, as per dyno sheet.i would always approach that car with a special amount respect, because I knew that it could get away from me and that wouldnt end well.
Go drive one of each, then make a decision. Good luck in your search.
Craig at CAMP
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 29 2014, 12:17 PM
But honestly if someone wants to chop up their car and go water-cooled, I'm all for it. The fewer true-to-original-form 914's there are out there, the more mine will be worth in the long run!
A common misconception. You don't need to "chop up" a car to make it water cooled, any more than doing rust repair will "chop it up". You're making improvements, and if it's done well then any changes you make are easily to un-do, if you ever choose. Though I don't know of anyone who ever has. And the alternative? Do nothing? That's the AC Ace or Cobra comparison, the Ace handled better... so which would you have bought? And more to the point, which of those two cars would you rather have driven for the last 50 years?
And that "mine will be worth more" thing? So your estate gets maximum value when it's sold? Screw that, I'm having fun with my car now, while I can. But if you really insist on getting maximum appreciation then stop driving your 914 right now, this instant, put it on blocks in the garage and drive the Kia. Maximum value but minimum fun. I couldn't do that, maybe you can, I don't know, but it's a sports car so it's not fiscally logical anyway. So do whatever you want, have fun with it, no limits.
Posted by: rnellums Dec 29 2014, 12:32 PM
I did a subaru conversion on my 73 914 that had ac deleted and a front oil cooler added. I have not had to cut the car with the exception of one 1" hole for radiator house. I could change back to stock configuration in a weekend.
The subaru h-6 is truly a wonder compared to the old 2.4l type iv I used to have in there. More power, a better transmission, and miles better drivability and reliability.
After selling the old engine and tranny I'm a total of 1k or so into my conversion (lots of junkyard parts).
After driving it all summer I have decided to make the change permanent. I have a stock 914 that I'll keep stock, but it will sit in the garage and get driven rarely as long as the subie 6 is around.
Posted by: iamchappy Dec 29 2014, 12:43 PM
Funny how so few recommend a Porsche flat 6, to me that would be the first option. I've done the big 4 for what i had into that, i could of had a nice 6. The 4 blew up..
Now i have a nice high horsepower 6, plug and play and easiest to do.
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 29 2014, 01:21 PM
The 4 blew up..
Ha ha, that happened to you, me, and a lot of other people.
I'd love to have a Porsche six myself. In theory, but I can't justify the cost. My 200hp (at the wheels) WRX engine cost me $600. And the total I have in my car, the total, with the cost of the car included, is pretty likely less than a good used (but less powerful) n/a P6 engine would cost all by itself. So it's hard for me to justify using a P6, and god help me if I ever had to rebuild one. It's true couldn't get another WRX engine for what I paid for this one, but even a nice low mile 300 hp STi motor would still be a quarter the cost of rebuilding a P6. And hey, once the engine lid is closed the fun part is the horsepower, more horsepower is more fun, and that doesn't have a brand.
Posted by: 914_3.0 Dec 29 2014, 01:31 PM
The last thing I would do is put a bowtie in my beautifully balanced little machine. Just saying. Maybe a Franken-teen website?
Posted by: tooms351 Dec 29 2014, 02:29 PM
A friend of mine ran a DE at Sebring this summer, he started first in his big 4 914. I also ran in this DE and started last in ma fat, ill handling, high centered, 327 packing 914 
. A 20 minute session, I caught him a little past half way. I will be the first to admit he is quicker than me driving the same car. Back on subject I built a 944 v8 and love it for a track car, but I bought the 914 and couldnt be happier!
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 29 2014, 02:33 PM
The last thing I would do is put a bowtie in my beautifully balanced little machine. Just saying. Maybe a Franken-teen website?
Wow. That was sure rude.
Can I respectfully ask if you've ever actually driven one of those cars that makes you puke?
Posted by: tooms351 Dec 29 2014, 02:33 PM
DUH
Posted by: era vulgaris Dec 29 2014, 06:53 PM
And that "mine will be worth more" thing? So your estate gets maximum value when it's sold? Screw that, I'm having fun with my car now, while I can. But if you really insist on getting maximum appreciation then stop driving your 914 right now, this instant, put it on blocks in the garage and drive the Kia. Maximum value but minimum fun. I couldn't do that, maybe you can, I don't know, but it's a sports car so it's not fiscally logical anyway. So do whatever you want, have fun with it, no limits.
Wow...way to take a halfway sarcastic comment and run with it
Posted by: messix Dec 29 2014, 08:04 PM
wow!
the last bunch of comments here really don't sound like the community that I know on this site !
whether or not "you" like or don't, would or would not have, drive, build, buy, is not the problem.
the problem is the berating tone that spews forth!
if this is not your cup of tea, then be productive and respectful with your posts or shut the hell up!
I might not like the side stripes, painted bumpers, or other stupid stuff you might do to your car.... but I'll keep that to my self and congratulate you on making your car that way you like it !
I would hate to see this "non-club" turn into a c/w self important derisive place where you cant think or do out side of what the self chosen keepers of what's allowed and tolerated with these cars.
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 29 2014, 08:07 PM
Really relax guys, it's your car do what you want. 
Part of it for me is I hate chevy's, I grew up in a POS GM town, so I'm biased right from the start.
Posted by: messix Dec 29 2014, 08:15 PM
Really relax guys, it's your car do what you want.
Part of it for me is I hate chevy's, I grew up in a POS GM town, so I'm biased right from the start.
what do you know ???
you're Canadian !
Posted by: messix Dec 29 2014, 08:15 PM
Posted by: Rand Dec 29 2014, 08:29 PM
LS.... what now? 3 or more? It's not cast iron any more boys. Show me a Porsche engine that can put out.... say... both 500 hp and torque. And be honest about weight. And then of course there's cost..... LS3 crate engine seems like a sweet answer.
Oh sorry, just thinking out loud. I'll take the Porsche six for 5x more money. Seriously, that's what I want.
Posted by: mgp4591 Dec 30 2014, 02:08 AM
wow!
the last bunch of comments here really don't sound like the community that I know on this site !
whether or not "you" like or don't, would or would not have, drive, build, buy, is not the problem.
the problem is the berating tone that spews forth!
if this is not your cup of tea, then be productive and respectful with your posts or shut the hell up!
I might not like the side stripes, painted bumpers, or other stupid stuff you might do to your car.... but I'll keep that to my self and congratulate you on making your car that way you like it !
I would hate to see this "non-club" turn into a c/w self important derisive place where you cant think or do out side of what the self chosen keepers of what's allowed and tolerated with these cars.
Geez, no kidding! You'd think we all drove "real Porsches" or something
I always thought that was the fun of owning one of these little cars- kind of a re-engineered race car for the street. Hell, it's got everything you'd want and then some, 'cept a back seat and we all know where that can go.... Use disrection when you "re-engineer" yours and you'll have lots of fun!
Posted by: mgp4591 Dec 30 2014, 02:21 AM
Wow . . .
Interesting that nobody actually mentioned that the V8 doesn't weigh that much more. I don't know how much lighter the LS is than the SBC, but the iron head and block SBC with all associated hardware only adds 250 lbs to the total car weight and the weight distribution is still 49/51%. It's no more than noticeable than taking a big friend for a ride.
The purist will bark all day long about how you ruin the handling, and the need to go bigger wheels and brakes. I agree to some extent, but the modification don't have to be extreme.
The weight may not change all that much, but WHERE the weight is does effect the car. I bought my car with a SB350 and am changing to a Subie for this exact reason. (And the trans...and the turbo...and the other upgrades possible.)
Drive one before you decide . . .
Best advice so far.
Doug, SOT but I've never seen what they're using for the cradle on a V8... is it round or square tubing and approx. what size? I'll be making my own and I'd like a comparison. Thanks!
Posted by: Rand Dec 30 2014, 04:04 AM
Ok, all this. Shall I repost what the OP asked? "
> LS1 or smokin hot type 4 ?, Driveability ?"
An ls1 will be smooth.
A smokin hot tiv will be..... What? You didn't ask??? What do you want???? 200hp? Then fail and pick up parts from the hand grenade.
This is NOT apples and oranges.
300hp from an LS1, will run no problem for 100,000 miles.
Let's just go LS3!!! Why Not!?????
Posted by: 914_3.0 Dec 30 2014, 11:19 AM
The last thing I would do is put a bowtie in my beautifully balanced little machine. Just saying. Maybe a Franken-teen website?
Wow. That was sure rude.
Can I respectfully ask if you've ever actually driven one of those cars that makes you puke?
Sorry if you were offended by what was only intended as a poke of fun DB. Respectfully, you seem a little sensitive. Did I berate someone personally somehow, as you just did? I just stated my opinion. I don't like Chebbys. I thought that's what forums were for.
The combination does nothing for me not even having driven it, sorry. Happy New Year 914World
I'll try to be less rude next year!! Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 30 2014, 11:28 AM
The last thing I would do is put a bowtie in my beautifully balanced little machine. Just saying. Maybe a Franken-teen website?
Wow. That was sure rude.
Can I respectfully ask if you've ever actually driven one of those cars that makes you puke?
Sorry if you were offended by what was only intended as a poke of fun DB. Respectfully, you seem a little sensitive. Did I berate someone personally somehow, as you just did? I just stated my opinion. I don't like Chebbys. I thought that's what forums were for.
The combination does nothing for me not even having driven it, sorry. Happy New Year 914World
I'll try to be less rude next year!! Yes DB is a little sensitive, at least you didn't get a nasty PM
Right Paul?
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 30 2014, 11:55 AM
Yeah, I've been driving a 914/Subaru for a while now so I'm getting more used to "your stuped" comments.
Posted by: CptTripps Dec 30 2014, 12:00 PM
The weight may not change all that much, but WHERE the weight is does effect the car. I bought my car with a SB350 and am changing to a Subie for this exact reason. (And the trans...and the turbo...and the other upgrades possible.)
Doug, SOT but I've never seen what they're using for the cradle on a V8... is it round or square tubing and approx. what size? I'll be making my own and I'd like a comparison. Thanks!
Mine was a Renegade kit that was a square-tube cradle. The oil pan does go pretty low and close to the ground. The other issue is that the pan is quite tall, so the bulk of the block goes up quite a bit higher than the flat-4 motor.
I can't stress this enough. DRIVE one before you make a decision. I've had a "hot 4" 914 before, and when I bought my latest car, it had a renegade V8 in it, along with the 4-speed modified 901. The handling is a bit different, and I'd hate for you to put a bunch of time/work into something, only to realize later it's not what you were hoping for. It WAS a lot of fun to drive, but sounded like an 80's Camaro. I just never really liked driving it as much as I did the 2.0 flat-4 I had in my 73.
To get ahead of the haters: I went for the Subie conversion without driving one, but looking at the weight numbers was only part of my decision. The Subie trans and the turbo were my major points. Coupled with a large number of "upgrade" options, I was sold on the Subie. I'm VERY happy that I did the conversion, and I can't wait to have it completed in the coming months.
If I had to do it over again, I'd got with a Subaru H6. Less expensive than a Porsche 6....by a lot. Lots of upgrade parts available. Plenty of support here to get you up and rolling quickly. Plenty of HP. Seems like the best of both worlds. My next 914 build (yes, I'm already planning another) will be a Subie H6.
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 30 2014, 12:02 PM
Yeah, I've been driving a 914/Subaru for a while now so I'm getting more used to "your stuped" comments.
Posted by: DBCooper Dec 30 2014, 12:06 PM
Oh crap, it's too late for Christmas now and that would have been PERFECT. Damn!
"Hi. I'm Stu."
Posted by: r_towle Dec 30 2014, 04:58 PM
I have an audi a8 with a 4.2 liter OVERHEAD camshaft engine.
Its really quick, really smooth and really common in germany.
So, its the same motor at the porsche cayenne and the porsche panamera.
Seems like a simple enough swap to do except the fuel injection.
Aside from the awesome car that Marty is creating, has anyone found anyone that has used this 4.2 liter motor in anything else?
Just like to see how they get around several transplant issues, but mainly ignition and fuel injection...which would both need to be custom unless you take everything from the donor car, like the gauges, ignition switch, all of that stuff.
rich
Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Dec 30 2014, 05:20 PM
I have an audi a8 with a 4.2 liter OVERHEAD camshaft engine.
Its really quick, really smooth and really common in germany.
So, its the same motor at the porsche cayenne and the porsche panamera.
Seems like a simple enough swap to do except the fuel injection.
Aside from the awesome car that Marty is creating, has anyone found anyone that has used this 4.2 liter motor in anything else?
Just like to see how they get around several transplant issues, but mainly ignition and fuel injection...which would both need to be custom unless you take everything from the donor car, like the gauges, ignition switch, all of that stuff.
rich
I've seen 3 Boxsters using that engine . Bolts right up to the boxster transaxle. 2 of them done here in Atlanta both using megasquirt ecus
Posted by: r_towle Dec 30 2014, 05:43 PM
I have an audi a8 with a 4.2 liter OVERHEAD camshaft engine.
Its really quick, really smooth and really common in germany.
So, its the same motor at the porsche cayenne and the porsche panamera.
Seems like a simple enough swap to do except the fuel injection.
Aside from the awesome car that Marty is creating, has anyone found anyone that has used this 4.2 liter motor in anything else?
Just like to see how they get around several transplant issues, but mainly ignition and fuel injection...which would both need to be custom unless you take everything from the donor car, like the gauges, ignition switch, all of that stuff.
rich
I've seen 3 Boxsters using that engine . Bolts right up to the boxster transaxle. 2 of them done here in Atlanta both using megasquirt ecus
i know it works with the boxster transaxle, and that is also key.
You dont know if there are any build threads or contact for the car owners???
rich
Posted by: cali914 Dec 30 2014, 05:49 PM
The 914 is a great car whether it has a subie, LS, Audi type 4 or even an S2000 or K series engine. It really depends on the person who is driving it and what combination they prefer. I owned a a 914 with a small block 350 then bought a world small block 427 which was a piece of sh..., My only complaint was figuring out the correct gearbox to use. I had a Pantera ZF which could handle the power but the shift pattern was annoying. The Mendiola is a good choice but way to expensive. The 930 is okay but you have to have someone who can flip the ring and pinion and re-weld the case. I am all for people trying different engine combinations and sharing their experience so that all of us can learn what we think is the ultimate 914. In my opinion the ultimate 914 is the one that is running and you enjoy driving it. HC
Posted by: got914? Dec 30 2014, 05:55 PM
I am all for people trying different engine combinations and sharing their experience so that all of us can learn what we think is the ultimate 914. In my opinion the ultimate 914 is the one that is running and you enjoy driving it. HC
Well Said
Posted by: Mueller Dec 30 2014, 06:08 PM
What is your expected budget and time frame?
Looking back at some of your other posts it looks like you've already pulled the stock motor.... you might be lucky if you can get 1/4 of the $ you need for a decent Big /4 or V8 conversion with the sale of your stock 1.7.
Posted by: thelogo Dec 30 2014, 09:31 PM
http://m.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/ltg-four-cylinder.html#.VKNtPJGIaSw
Of all the crate motor s this one looked the best to me ,but 9 k is a bit steep
Posted by: Cracker Dec 30 2014, 10:14 PM
It greatly depends upon your goals and objectives with the car. There really isn't a wrong answer to your question. I, for one, wouldn't consider opinions of those who haven't owned (read extensive seat time) cars with both power-plants (you're asking about). This , however, cuts the number of experienced posters seriously down.
I've owned both types of motors. The T4 car was a FAT Performance 2.4 liter stroker with 160 hp ($11G's - engine only)! Very nice for street but under powered and the downside of all air-cooled motors - stench. The conversion was an LS2. FI is a huge plus and can be driven more smoothly than the T4 around town. In fact, it always reminded me of a factory car.
You really need to find some way to drive both before making a decision. I will personally never go back to an air-cooled engine but can talk myself temporarily into why others might (it really is a hard sell though). Again, drive both on nicely executed cars and I promise you the decision will be very easy.
Tony
Posted by: rdauenhauer Dec 30 2014, 11:54 PM
Hmmm ...good debate. Im one of those "few" that has driven a variety of configurations.
Stock (all disp.'s), /6 (carbed /FI), Subi (NA & turbo), Buick V6 & V8, SBC...
Never an auto though.
For what its worth...Im going big 4.
2366
Posted by: Mueller Dec 31 2014, 01:07 AM
Hmmm ...good debate. Im one of those "few" that has driven a variety of configurations.
Stock (all disp.'s), /6 (carbed /FI), Subi (NA & turbo), Buick V6 & V8, SBC...
Never an auto though.
For what its worth...Im going big 4.
2366
What is the driving factor(s) behind that decision?
Cost, time to get it back on the road or just 'cause you like the big /4 so much?
Posted by: returf Dec 31 2014, 04:19 AM
my wife would be ok with a big 6 but unfortunately I have a smokin hot Medium 8 
Posted by: mgp4591 Dec 31 2014, 05:02 AM
my wife would be ok with a big 6 but unfortunately I have a smokin hot Medium 8
Just don't ask her to build your next house- it'll only be 3/4 size!!
Posted by: r_towle Dec 31 2014, 07:33 AM
my wife would be ok with a big 6 but unfortunately I have a smokin hot Medium 8
Attached image(s)
Posted by: jmmotorsports Jan 1 2015, 04:04 PM
Wow . . .
Interesting that nobody actually mentioned that the V8 doesn't weigh that much more. I don't know how much lighter the LS is than the SBC, but the iron head and block SBC with all associated hardware only adds 250 lbs to the total car weight and the weight distribution is still 49/51%. It's no more than noticeable than taking a big friend for a ride.
The purist will bark all day long about how you ruin the handling, and the need to go bigger wheels and brakes. I agree to some extent, but the modification don't have to be extreme.
Drive one before you decide . . .
gm performance parts say 575 lbs for turnkey 350 sbc with iron heds 464 for turn key 03 ls1 corvette engine
Posted by: Cracker Jan 1 2015, 04:18 PM
More taste (power) - less filling (weight)! ;-)
The "914 configuration" weight comparisons: HP rating are "stock" motors.
1) Complete LS3 motor, stock (heavy) cast exhaust manifolds and alternator = 421 lbs/430hp
2) For Comparison: 2.7/6 = 440 lbs/150hp
3) Do you feel like installing an anchor in your 914? 964 3.6 = 608 lbs/250hp
4) Type 4 = 311 lbs/95hp
Is there really any question which choice offers the most benefit?
Posted by: andys Jan 1 2015, 04:36 PM
gm performance parts say 575 lbs for turnkey 350 sbc with iron heds 464 for turn key 03 ls1 corvette engine
Are you sure that isn't the shipping weight with crate/pallet? I'm recalling 415lbs. for the LSx....But I'll stand corrected.
Andys
Posted by: messix Jan 1 2015, 05:36 PM
gm performance parts say 575 lbs for turnkey 350 sbc with iron heds 464 for turn key 03 ls1 corvette engine
Are you sure that isn't the shipping weight with crate/pallet? I'm recalling 415lbs. for the LSx....But I'll stand corrected.
Andys
turn key = all accessory drives, alt, p/s, a/c, cats, and hoses.
Posted by: thelogo Jan 1 2015, 09:18 PM
Just curious is anyone doing a straight or v 6
I'm thinking it would be lighter then most and less power
Then l s of course
Posted by: CG-914 Jan 1 2015, 09:25 PM
V8 is cheap power but not as refined as Porsche type4 or wickedsix!
You loose the quality of the car with anything heavier than a flat 6, and even that is almost too heavy drive a 914 with a hot type4 in the curvy mountains and image now you would drag a peace of heavy iron v8 with you it looses its feel for the car and smart curve handling!
Posted by: Steve Jan 1 2015, 09:57 PM
More taste (power) - less filling (weight)! ;-)
The "914 configuration" weight comparisons: HP rating are "stock" motors.
1) Complete LS3 motor, stock (heavy) cast exhaust manifolds and alternator = 421 lbs/430hp
2) For Comparison: 2.7/6 = 440 lbs/150hp
3) Do you feel like installing an anchor in your 914? 964 3.6 = 608 lbs/250hp
4) Type 4 = 311 lbs/95hp
Is there really any question which choice offers the most benefit?
Just curious... where you are getting these figures from? The 2.7 is magnesium. I read somewhere that the 3.0 is 440 lbs and its aluminum.
Posted by: Cracker Jan 1 2015, 10:28 PM
Glad to help Steve...a book called "Porsche 911 engines" by Aichle. Here is an old
link (10 years) sharing some of the same information. These "questions" have all been asked before...even here on the World! Haha!
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/lofiversion/index.php?t10158.html
More taste (power) - less filling (weight)! ;-)
The "914 configuration" weight comparisons: HP rating are "stock" motors.
1) Complete LS3 motor, stock (heavy) cast exhaust manifolds and alternator = 421 lbs/430hp
2) For Comparison: 2.7/6 = 440 lbs/150hp
3) Do you feel like installing an anchor in your 914? 964 3.6 = 608 lbs/250hp
4) Type 4 = 311 lbs/95hp
Is there really any question which choice offers the most benefit?
Just curious... where you are getting these figures from? The 2.7 is magnesium. I read somewhere that the 3.0 is 440 lbs and its aluminum.
Posted by: Bruce Hinds Jan 2 2015, 12:17 AM
V8 is cheap power but not as refined as Porsche type4 or wickedsix!
You loose the quality of the car with anything heavier than a flat 6, and even that is almost too heavy drive a 914 with a hot type4 in the curvy mountains and image now you would drag a peace of heavy iron v8 with you it looses its feel for the car and smart curve handling!
I couldn't agree less - I had a hopped up 2.0 and used to drive from Boulder Colorado to Estes Park on a regular basis and later did the same drive in the SBC car I built. You might sell that argument on a down hill drive. Going up the canyons is a whole-nother story!
Find some nice twistys up and down some nice hills. Drive both and decide for yourself.
Posted by: Bruce Hinds Jan 2 2015, 12:23 AM
Just curious is anyone doing a straight or v 6
I'm thinking it would be lighter then most and less power
Then l s of course
My dad really liked my V8 but decided to do an odd fire Buick V6. It was almost as much effort as the V8- I never liked the engine. A friend that inspired me had a 455 buick v8 in his car- too much torque for the HP in my opinion.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 2 2015, 08:25 AM
More taste (power) - less filling (weight)! ;-)
The "914 configuration" weight comparisons: HP rating are "stock" motors.
1) Complete LS3 motor, stock (heavy) cast exhaust manifolds and alternator = 421 lbs/430hp
2) For Comparison: 2.7/6 = 440 lbs/150hp
3) Do you feel like installing an anchor in your 914? 964 3.6 = 608 lbs/250hp
4) Type 4 = 311 lbs/95hp
Is there really any question which choice offers the most benefit?
My engine isn't a stock 3.0 /6, it should push at least 250hp
BTW is that LS3 engine counting the rad, fan, water, hose, etc?
Even if the LS3 is the same weight as a /6, the center of gravity is much higher, that will effect the car dynamics.
On the 3.6 is that higher number counting things like the AC pump, power steering pump? I can't see the engine alone weighing much more than the 3.2.
Posted by: Cracker Jan 2 2015, 09:53 AM
Mark - I'm very happy for you. Really though - this thread is supposed to be about the preference (or driving characteristics) between a /4 and /8. Correct???
PS: My "hobby life" would be far simpler if I could be "satisfied" with 250 hp (in a 914). With that said, my race car only has 180 hp (and faster than ANY 914 ever built, period)!
Tony
My engine isn't a stock 3.0 /6, it should push at least 250hp
BTW is that LS3 engine counting the rad, fan, water, hose, etc?
Even if the LS3 is the same weight as a /6, the center of gravity is much higher, that will effect the car dynamics.
On the 3.6 is that higher number counting things like the AC pump, power steering pump? I can't see the engine alone weighing much more than the 3.2.
[/quote]
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 2 2015, 10:48 AM
Mark - I'm very happy for you. Really though - this thread is supposed to be about the preference (or driving characteristics) between a /4 and /8. Correct???
I didn't post that list so why do you have to come off as an ass?
That list is not comparing apples to apples and my point is I hate skewed info.
If you are not counting the weight of the rad, water, hose,etc. than that info is nothing more than a lie.
BTW the OP doesn't know what he wants. Right now in PM's to me he's (OP) is thinking of doing a V6 I'm telling him if he goes this route a V8 is a better choice.
Posted by: computers4kids Jan 2 2015, 11:02 AM
My complete SBC conversion with AC added 250lbs. Once a 1.8--the sbc tripled the hp 
No comparison in the improvement for driving experience
Now, I don't autocross, but love to drive the car from from central ca to the coast. Having the power to zip pass people when needed going up the mountains is invaluable on one lane roads.
Even though I've loved all the air cooled 914s that I've had, it was always a bit frustrating when I needed a part when something unforeseen when wrong--grounding the car since everything had to be ordered where I live.
With a common more modern power plant, parts are readily available, in stock, and relatively cheap.
I am not advocating an engine change if your 914 is being kept original--but if you really love driving and experiencing what a 914 can do with reliable power that starts every time--go for a powerplant that meets your needs and pocketbook.
Posted by: got914? Jan 2 2015, 11:20 AM
Mark - I'm very happy for you. Really though - this thread is supposed to be about the preference (or driving characteristics) between a /4 and /8. Correct???
I didn't post that list so why do you have to come off as an ass?
That list is not comparing apples to apples and my point is I hate skewed info. Try a
If you are not counting the weight of the rad, water, hose,etc. than that info is nothing more than a lie.
BTW the OP doesn't know what he wants. Right now in PM's to me he's (OP) is thinking of doing a V6 I'm telling him if he goes this route a V8 is a better choice.
I agree the weight difference has to include the rad, water & hose or the argument becomes invalid. Yes im up in the air right now and its a bad time of the year to try to drive/ride in different cars. Im going to wait till spring to try and make a drivetrain decision.
Posted by: Cracker Jan 2 2015, 11:23 AM
Don't be so thin-skinned my Northern enthusiast...I am an "ass" sometimes but my friends still love (at least like) me.
I really do covet weight loss on performance cars but unless the car is driven past "9/10ths" the weight difference we're all discussing simply does not matter. Most "track rats" don't even approach this aggressive threshold. A 914 would equate to an "oil tanker" compared to what I drive in aggression. Inherently, 914's are NOT race cars - they're 40+ year old economy cars for crying out loud. However, based upon the OP's question, the weight difference (including everything) on ANY of these conversions is purely negligible - even the fat-pig-ed 3.6 liter!
Clearly, the OP is not a racer with "ultimate performance" as a goal - if he were, the questions asked would be MUCH different and far more detailed. He also wouldn't want to know the difference in "driveability" - he sounds like a "show/shine" gentleman who might go "to the hills or a causal A/X" occasionally. For the record - there is nothing wrong with this either! IF this is his purpose, however, either option (any option) will please him. Put a damn rotary in there - he'll be o.k! O.k.?
Convincing yourself that a /4 or /6 is the best way to go is fine...the argument simply falls short for "most" drivers. Not all owners are skilled enough to drive a powerful car - I usually point them in the direction of a (are you ready...drum roll please) /6!. I'll say it again, I'm very happy you're happy.
Tony
Mark - I'm very happy for you. Really though - this thread is supposed to be about the preference (or driving characteristics) between a /4 and /8. Correct???
I didn't post that list so why do you have to come off as an ass?
That list is not comparing apples to apples and my point is I hate skewed info.
If you are not counting the weight of the rad, water, hose,etc. than that info is nothing more than a lie.
BTW the OP doesn't know what he wants. Right now in PM's to me he's (OP) is thinking of doing a V6 I'm telling him if he goes this route a V8 is a better choice.
Posted by: Mark Garriott Jan 2 2015, 01:01 PM
To me once you go V8 you lost the whole point of owning a 914.
Big type 4 about 150hp or do a subi conversion.
But all of this costs money, my suggestion is to actually drive the car before you change things.
Agreed. It all costs money.
I went from a worn-out L-Jet 1.8 to a carbed 2.4 type 4. Maybe I would have been happy with a refreshed stock engine.
'Smokin hot Type 4' engines are not a bargain, but they are more plug-and-play than any water cooled / non-Porsche engine conversion.
I would consider the back half of the equation -- the transmission. The 901 is adequate, but the ratios suck, and it is clunky.
If I wasn't so biased against the Subaru (can't stomach Japanese engine in German car) I would go the Suby route. A modern engine with EFI, lots of aftermarket and interwebz support and comes with a modern transmission to match.
Another option is the close cousin -- Audi 1.8/2.0 T and transmission.
Posted by: Mike Bellis Jan 2 2015, 02:57 PM
I have had several conversions, each one a little different.
'71 narrow body, Ford 5.0L EFI: this car had stock brakes and suspension except for 180# springs in the rear. Super fast and easy to control drift around any corner. When the tires were gripping, the car handled great.
73 wide body with several engines:
283ci V8, 250hp, cast iron everything. Super heavy with good power. Handling was very predictable. the rear over steer would plant the car in the same place every time. Awesome setup.
1.3L turbo rotary, 500hp at the peak. super light and too much HP and not enough torque for my driving likes. The over steer (above) was gone and the car was so light over the rear tires it was scary.
1.8L turbo Audi, 325hp. Lighter than the V8, heavier than the rotary. great power and torque. This seems like the best of the combos. Less over steer yet still predictable. I find some under steer in the front pushing tight turns at high speed. I think it either needs more weight over the front wheels or I need to pull the rear sway bar.
Each of these 3 combos use the same radiator and hoses to the front. The radiator and coolant add less than 50lbs to the car. With the added engine weight, the front mounted radiator helps to balance the chassis.
I have driven a stock 2.0L T4 914 as well. I can say that once you drive a high HP 914, it's impossible to go back to stock. The chassis is capable of holding much more power than it came with. My Audi conversion is my favorite by far. It runs like a new car around town and drives like a race car when I get on it.
The pleasure or pain of driving a 914 conversion will mainly come down to the chassis setup. Plan on springs, shocks and brakes to match whatever engine combo you decide.
Posted by: DBCooper Jan 2 2015, 04:10 PM
That's a pretty good perspective. You can have any opinion you want, but unless you've actually driven all those different combinations to compare then your opinion isn't based on facts. Just because you "believe" something doesn't make it true.
To address the "but it's not a 914 anymore" thinking, sure, that's right. But is that a bad thing? That AC Ace/AC Cobra analogy, is the Cobra an Ace that's been ruined? It's heavier than the Ace, carries the weight higher, has a friggin' American motor so it's a POS hot rod, but looking at them and driving them, car for car, is the Cobra a bad car? Different, for sure, but less anything than the Ace? Is it less "sporty", less "pure", less "balanced", less "English"? Those things might all be true for some hard-core Ace owner, but not for any car enthusiast with an open-mind. For any reasonable person the Cobra is a great and iconic car, plus it's a hell of a lot faster and a lot more fun to drive. Trade your Cobra for my Ace? Seriously? That makes sense only if you've never driven a Cobra.
So my suggestion is, if you haven't driven/ridden in a V8 914 go find a way to do it, then tell me it didn't put a smile on your face. No one's saying you have to do it to your car, just saying that it makes for a very nice (if different) car on its own merits, and it's a valid way to have some fun.
OK, a LOT of fun.
Posted by: v82go Jan 2 2015, 06:17 PM
I have owned 9 or 10 type 4 powered 914s, one conversion with a 2.5 built six (made a whopping 200 hp) at a cost of somewhere north of 10k. I presently have 2
v8 cars one 327 and one with a built LS6. Four years ago I again tried a low mileage 1974 2.0 and drove it less than a hundred miles before reselling it. After driving one with over 300 hp, I could not go back. Out of all of them the six made the most beautiful noises, but was rather down on power.
Also when comparing weights, lets not forget about the sixes oil tank and if you have a big one , its cooler.
Posted by: era vulgaris Jan 3 2015, 08:32 AM
To address the "but it's not a 914 anymore" thinking, sure, that's right. But is that a bad thing? That AC Ace/AC Cobra analogy, is the Cobra an Ace that's been ruined? It's heavier than the Ace, carries the weight higher, has a friggin' American motor so it's a POS hot rod, but looking at them and driving them, car for car, is the Cobra a bad car? Different, for sure, but less anything than the Ace? Is it less "sporty", less "pure", less "balanced", less "English"? Those things might all be true for some hard-core Ace owner, but not for any car enthusiast with an open-mind. For any reasonable person the Cobra is a great and iconic car, plus it's a hell of a lot faster and a lot more fun to drive. Trade your Cobra for my Ace? Seriously? That makes sense only if you've never driven a Cobra.
I get what you're saying. You keep using that analogy, but I don't think it's valid in terms of how these cars are perceived. The Cobra is essentially a factory built car; water cooled 914's are not.
Had Chevy (or another large name) been importing 914 bodies and putting V8's in them in the factory I think you'd see a different attitude towards the conversion from the air-cooled purists.
And I also think, had Cobras been built by private enthusiasts, you would see a different attitude towards them as well. If it wasn't Carol Shelby who had done the engine/trans conversions, in a legitimate partnership with Ford, they would just be a novelty car and certainly not worth the $1,000,000+ that they go for now.
I'm not making an argument either way...just saying I think there's a reason why there's a different attitude towards the Cobra "conversion" than towards a 914 conversion; and that reason is the legitimacy of the cars being built by a famous racing driver who was backed by an automobile manufacturer.
Look...if you love water-cooled cars, that's great. If you love air-cooled cars, that's great. Whatever puts a smile on your face, man!
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 3 2015, 08:41 AM
Also when comparing weights, lets not forget about the sixes oil tank and if you have a big one , its cooler.
Yes for a /6 you have to add the weight of the tank and oil, the cooler is a bit more subjective as you don't "have" to add it for a functional car.
In the south and traffic or track you may for sure need it, but in the north, no track and not much traffic you may be able to do without one.
Posted by: Cracker Jan 3 2015, 09:23 AM
Again, as I stated in a previous post, weight is an absolute non-factor for any car NOT being driven at 9/10ths on a race track. Now, if putting an LS into a 914 increased its weight to 4,000 lbs I would agree...but it doesn't. It means nothing. It is also important to note that my perspective nearly always comes from a "drivers perspective"...not a poser's.
By NO means am I comparing the actual cars "performance" but with ALL of this concern over "weight" I found this to be very interesting comparative data (simply from a tonnage perspective). What was someone saying about "weight" being a problem?
1) MY 914 LS3 / 2083 lbs / 485 hp / 460 tq (mid-engine, water-cooled & 6-Speed)
4.3 lbs/hp & 4.56 lbs/torque
2) '04 Carrera GT / 3043 lbs / 605 hp / 435 tq. (Porsche finally got-it-right: mid-engine, water-cooled & 6-Speed)
5.02 lbs/hp & 13.89 lbs/torque (PLUS an Extra 960 lbs compared to the teener)
3) 914 2.0 (hot) / 2116 / 150 hp / 135 tq. (mid-engine, air-cooled & 5-Speed 901)
14.01 lbs/hp & 15.67 lbs/torque
I cut my teeth in P-cars and am a National PCA Instructor. It might surprise some folks "here" but I really do enjoy Porsche's - especially teaching P-owners how to drive
their cars. However, I also have "no tolerance for in-tolerance" when it comes to purists attitudes towards better mouse-traps. I'm not telling anyone an air-cooled engine
isn't a good idea for a teener...(but) please don't automatically spew the concept that a v8 is bad (either).
Also when comparing weights, lets not forget about the sixes oil tank and if you have a big one , its cooler.
Yes for a /6 you have to add the weight of the tank and oil, the cooler is a bit more subjective as you don't "have" to add it for a functional car.
In the south and traffic or track you may for sure need it, but in the north, no track and not much traffic you may be able to do without one.
Posted by: DBCooper Jan 3 2015, 10:08 AM
Exactly. The question is how the car performs, bottom line, nothing else.
Look...if you love water-cooled cars, that's great. If you love air-cooled cars, that's great. Whatever puts a smile on your face, man!
Look, the original question was the better drivability between a fire cracker four cylinder and an aluminum V8. There's no one who's had a hot four who will tell you it has wonderful drivability... is there? Not for long, anyway, and the people who've had V8 cars will tell you they're perfectly drivable, won't they? So the original question is answered... isn't it? But as a special bonus the OP got a lot of answers to another question he didn't ask, about general acceptance of watercooled conversions in the 914 community. Another factor that needs to be considered in his deliberations.
Posted by: Steve Jan 3 2015, 11:28 AM
I couldn't agree more. I had a big 4, didn't like the driveability so I switched to a six. I am also a fan of v8 914's though I have never ridden in one. From a gearing standpoint what is the red line of a stock aluminum ls1? I noticed the peak hp is around 5800 rpms.
Curious about the other politics. Does PCA allow non Porsche power plants at an Autocross?
I wish I could afford two 914's. One with a v8.
Posted by: jgara962 Jan 3 2015, 11:39 AM
[/quote]
I get what you're saying. You keep using that analogy, but I don't think it's valid in terms of how these cars are perceived. The Cobra is essentially a factory built car; water cooled 914's are not.
Had Chevy (or another large name) been importing 914 bodies and putting V8's in them in the factory I think you'd see a different attitude towards the convers
ion from the air-cooled purists.
And I also think, had Cobras been built by private enthusiasts, you would see a different attitude towards them as well. If it wasn't Carol Shelby who had done the engine/trans conversions, in a legitimate partnership with Ford, they would just be a novelty car and certainly not worth the $1,000,000+ that they go for now.
I'm not making an argument either way...just saying I think there's a reason why there's a different attitude towards the Cobra "conversion" than towards a 914 conversion; and that reason is the legitimacy of the cars being built by a famous racing driver who was backed by an automobile manufacturer.
There is a difference between a factory effort using a little known car at the time (the Ace) and introducing a whole new concept (the Cobra) and something that's been around 40+ years being "engineered" by someone in their garage because they aren't happy with the car they own.
I'm always in favor of more power, but for vintage cars, it's within the original vision the manufacturer had for the car which in this case is a 4 or 6. I guess if I wanted something light with a high horsepower V8, I would go buy a Cobra or Sunbeam Tiger.
I wonder what percentage of similar vintage cars such as BMW 2002's or Alfa GTA's have had this done to them? 
Posted by: rnellums Jan 3 2015, 11:41 AM
Curious about the other politics. Does PCA allow non Porsche power plants at an Autocross?
I wish I could afford two 914's. One with a v8.
It may vary by region, but in the Rocky mountain region I have run both DE's and AX in my porcharu, hell I've even done PCA AX in my S2000.
Posted by: Cracker Jan 3 2015, 11:44 AM
The old-er stock (pre-2004) LS1's redline at 6k; my LS3 redlines at 6500. However, I never have to get close to the limit (shift light is set at 6100) due to the mountain of torque available.
Regarding non-Porsche drivetrains being allowed to run PCA A/X events...generally yes. Now, PCA "club racing" is an entirely different animal. Only Porsche drive-lines/components allowed.
I couldn't agree more. I had a big 4, didn't like the driveability so I switched to a six. I am also a fan of v8 914's though I have never ridden in one. From a gearing standpoint what is the red line of a stock aluminum ls1? I noticed the peak hp is around 5800 rpms.
Curious about the other politics. Does PCA allow non Porsche power plants at an Autocross?
I wish I could afford two 914's. One with a v8.
Posted by: messix Jan 3 2015, 11:53 AM
Posted by: Mike Bellis Jan 3 2015, 12:17 PM
I was raised a Hot Rodder. I don't see any problem with modifying a 914 or any car. I don't see a problem keeping it stock either.
Modifying any car comes with more challenges than simply installing an engine. Usually the chassis, brakes and suspension will also need to be upgraded to match the engine choice. I have a roll cage, 930 turbo brakes, stiffening kit, front/rear sway bars, etc...
I've gone through several transmission and axle combos. I now run CV's that are $400 each just to keep them from breaking. I swapped in all the electronics from the donor car. I've swapped in multiple engines in the quest to find the one I like. I have spent more money than I will total up. I now throw away receipts so I don't accidentally add them up.
Everybody will have an opinion of how they want their 914 to be. All of them will be correct in their own mind. If you are not a fabricator, buy a finished car. I have thousands of hours building and rebuilding my 914 on this vision quest. I am now to the point of fine tuning the rest of the car. I have new plans for radiators and cooling using Boxster parts.
Some will like my car and some will not. Even if you don't like it, I bet I can put a smile on your face by taking you for a ride...
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 3 2015, 01:18 PM
The old-er stock (pre-2004) LS1's redline at 6k; my LS3 redlines at 6500. However, I never have to get close to the limit (shift light is set at 6100) due to the mountain of torque available.
Regarding non-Porsche drivetrains being allowed to run PCA A/X events...generally yes. Now, PCA "club racing" is an entirely different animal. Only Porsche drive-lines/components allowed.
I couldn't agree more. I had a big 4, didn't like the driveability so I switched to a six. I am also a fan of v8 914's though I have never ridden in one. From a gearing standpoint what is the red line of a stock aluminum ls1? I noticed the peak hp is around 5800 rpms.
Curious about the other politics. Does PCA allow non Porsche power plants at an Autocross?
I wish I could afford two 914's. One with a v8.
Did someone say Porsche drive-line/ components allowed? Appearing at Porsche Club events very soon...
Posted by: BuddyV Jan 3 2015, 01:34 PM
I was raised a Hot Rodder. I don't see any problem with modifying a 914 or any car. I don't see a problem keeping it stock either.
Modifying any car comes with more challenges than simply installing an engine. Usually the chassis, brakes and suspension will also need to be upgraded to match the engine choice. I have a roll cage, 930 turbo brakes, stiffening kit, front/rear sway bars, etc...
I've gone through several transmission and axle combos. I now run CV's that are $400 each just to keep them from breaking. I swapped in all the electronics from the donor car. I've swapped in multiple engines in the quest to find the one I like. I have spent more money than I will total up. I now throw away receipts so I don't accidentally add them up.
Everybody will have an opinion of how they want their 914 to be. All of them will be correct in their own mind. If you are not a fabricator, buy a finished car. I have thousands of hours building and rebuilding my 914 on this vision quest. I am now to the point of fine tuning the rest of the car. I have new plans for radiators and cooling using Boxster parts.
Some will like my car and some will not. Even if you don't like it, I bet I can put a smile on your face by taking you for a ride...
Mike.... glad you wrote.... I am about to start a V8 build and to be honest, I have been hesitating to ACTUALLY start. The whole "keep it air cooled and lite, ect....".... but I will have fun trying this, and that keeps me motivated in work and life.
And whatever is done can be un-done if I do not LOVE it, right? My car was a forgotten seaside car when I saved it... it was never destined for originality anyway....
Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but I think this is related to the original post (kind of).
Cheers!
Posted by: Cracker Jan 3 2015, 04:15 PM
Awesome! I'd very much like to see the build details...another thread maybe if it doesn't exist. Which model are you building around this beautiful motor? Another thread perhaps (if needed).
Posted by: drive-ability Jan 3 2015, 04:39 PM
I think they are two totally different animals.(LS1/big 4 even a 6)
Posted by: Cracker Jan 3 2015, 06:36 PM
[quote name='jgara962' date='Jan 3 2015, 12:39 PM' post='2129596']
[/quote] I wonder what percentage of similar vintage cars such as BMW 2002's or Alfa GTA's have had this done to them? [/quote]
You opened this "can of worms"...my 1973 BMW 2002 w/ a 400 hp BMW S62 (M5) v8! The reason you don't see this "conversion" because of the cost. The engine, harness and Motec management (which is required) is over $25k - that's JUST the engine! 
Posted by: messix Jan 3 2015, 07:10 PM
the Ls engine is "the engine" to transplant into damn near everything.
bmw 3, 5, 7 series.
infiniti g cars
Nissan 240 and 300
old Mercedes
Volvos
jags
Miata
the ecu and harness "kits" make this the easiest swap, 3 wires hook up.
if it will fit the engine bay this works very well, light small and simple with parts availability every where and cheap.
Posted by: john77 Jan 3 2015, 09:14 PM
Sorry for the hijack, but sweet lord, that thing is a beast! I can only imagine what a blast it will be to drive. I have a 72 tii with a stock m10, nowhere near as fast as my 914 but a great little car in its own right. What color are you painting it?
Posted by: DBCooper Jan 3 2015, 09:53 PM
Ha ha ha ha. Dude, you aren't even going to get to talk to St. Peter, it's straight to hell for you.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 3 2015, 10:45 PM
[quote name='Cracker' date='Jan 3 2015, 07:36 PM' post='2129749']
[quote name='jgara962' date='Jan 3 2015, 12:39 PM' post='2129596']
[/quote] I wonder what percentage of similar vintage cars such as BMW 2002's or Alfa GTA's have had this done to them? [/quote]
You opened this "can of worms"...my 1973 BMW 2002 w/ a 400 hp BMW S62 (M5) v8! The reason you don't see this "conversion" because of the cost. The engine, harness and Motec management (which is required) is over $25k - that's JUST the engine!
[/quote]
Why wouldn't you use a cheaper engine that puts out more HP???
And doesn't need fake sound piped through the speakers 
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 3 2015, 10:56 PM
Awesome! I'd very much like to see the build details...another thread maybe if it doesn't exist. Which model are you building around this beautiful motor? Another thread perhaps (if needed).
This build thread is located here in the Garage at Porsche 914-8GTT
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 3 2015, 11:14 PM
[quote name='Cracker' date='Jan 3 2015, 04:36 PM' post='2129749']
[quote name='jgara962' date='Jan 3 2015, 12:39 PM' post='2129596']
[/quote] I wonder what percentage of similar vintage cars such as BMW 2002's or Alfa GTA's have had this done to them? [/quote]
You opened this "can of worms"...my 1973 BMW 2002 w/ a 400 hp BMW S62 (M5) v8! The reason you don't see this "conversion" because of the cost. The engine, harness and Motec management (which is required) is over $25k - that's JUST the engine!
[/quote]
That 2002 is a work of art !
When you replace that v8 with an M6 v10, we can supply you with MSDS
Ceramic coated headers 
...Now back to topic...
Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 4 2015, 01:14 AM
To address the "but it's not a 914 anymore" thinking, sure, that's right. But is that a bad thing? That AC Ace/AC Cobra analogy, is the Cobra an Ace that's been ruined? It's heavier than the Ace, carries the weight higher, has a friggin' American motor so it's a POS hot rod, but looking at them and driving them, car for car, is the Cobra a bad car? Different, for sure, but less anything than the Ace? Is it less "sporty", less "pure", less "balanced", less "English"? Those things might all be true for some hard-core Ace owner, but not for any car enthusiast with an open-mind. For any reasonable person the Cobra is a great and iconic car, plus it's a hell of a lot faster and a lot more fun to drive. Trade your Cobra for my Ace? Seriously? That makes sense only if you've never driven a Cobra.
I get what you're saying. You keep using that analogy, but I don't think it's valid in terms of how these cars are perceived. The Cobra is essentially a factory built car; water cooled 914's are not.
Had Chevy (or another large name) been importing 914 bodies and putting V8's in them in the factory I think you'd see a different attitude towards the conversion from the air-cooled purists.
And I also think, had Cobras been built by private enthusiasts, you would see a different attitude towards them as well. If it wasn't Carol Shelby who had done the engine/trans conversions, in a legitimate partnership with Ford, they would just be a novelty car and certainly not worth the $1,000,000+ that they go for now.
I'm not making an argument either way...just saying I think there's a reason why there's a different attitude towards the Cobra "conversion" than towards a 914 conversion; and that reason is the legitimacy of the cars being built by a famous racing driver who was backed by an automobile manufacturer.
Look...if you love water-cooled cars, that's great. If you love air-cooled cars, that's great. Whatever puts a smile on your face, man!
The only "factory" involvement with Ford that Carroll Shelby had was supplying the engines and transmissions. He told Ford that AC was interested- He told AC that Ford was interested! He was a privateer until Ford saw how successful he was racing with their engines but it was all his (and Brock Yates I believe) engineering that put the power to the road. Not a bona-fide engineer in the group, just a couple of good 'ol fashioned hot rodders with an idea... kinda like what we've got here. 4, 6 or 8- if it's modified to fit your taste and style, you're a hot rodder by definition and that ain't a bad thing!
Posted by: messix Jan 4 2015, 01:23 AM
To address the "but it's not a 914 anymore" thinking, sure, that's right. But is that a bad thing? That AC Ace/AC Cobra analogy, is the Cobra an Ace that's been ruined? It's heavier than the Ace, carries the weight higher, has a friggin' American motor so it's a POS hot rod, but looking at them and driving them, car for car, is the Cobra a bad car? Different, for sure, but less anything than the Ace? Is it less "sporty", less "pure", less "balanced", less "English"? Those things might all be true for some hard-core Ace owner, but not for any car enthusiast with an open-mind. For any reasonable person the Cobra is a great and iconic car, plus it's a hell of a lot faster and a lot more fun to drive. Trade your Cobra for my Ace? Seriously? That makes sense only if you've never driven a Cobra.
I get what you're saying. You keep using that analogy, but I don't think it's valid in terms of how these cars are perceived. The Cobra is essentially a factory built car; water cooled 914's are not.
Had Chevy (or another large name) been importing 914 bodies and putting V8's in them in the factory I think you'd see a different attitude towards the conversion from the air-cooled purists.
And I also think, had Cobras been built by private enthusiasts, you would see a different attitude towards them as well. If it wasn't Carol Shelby who had done the engine/trans conversions, in a legitimate partnership with Ford, they would just be a novelty car and certainly not worth the $1,000,000+ that they go for now.
I'm not making an argument either way...just saying I think there's a reason why there's a different attitude towards the Cobra "conversion" than towards a 914 conversion; and that reason is the legitimacy of the cars being built by a famous racing driver who was backed by an automobile manufacturer.
Look...if you love water-cooled cars, that's great. If you love air-cooled cars, that's great. Whatever puts a smile on your face, man!
The only "factory" involvement with Ford that Carroll Shelby had was supplying the engines and transmissions. He told Ford that AC was interested- He told AC that Ford was interested! He was a privateer until Ford saw how successful he was racing with their engines but it was all his (and Brock Yates I believe) engineering that put the power to the road. Not a bona-fide engineer in the group, just a couple of good 'ol fashioned hot rodders with an idea... kinda like what we've got here. 4, 6 or 8- if it's modified to fit your taste and style, you're a hot rodder by definition and that ain't a bad thing!
right and the first cobra's had a 260 ci engine.... and then those bastards had the balls to put a 427 ci monster in it !!!!!
terrible right ?
Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 4 2015, 01:43 AM
To address the "but it's not a 914 anymore" thinking, sure, that's right. But is that a bad thing? That AC Ace/AC Cobra analogy, is the Cobra an Ace that's been ruined? It's heavier than the Ace, carries the weight higher, has a friggin' American motor so it's a POS hot rod, but looking at them and driving them, car for car, is the Cobra a bad car? Different, for sure, but less anything than the Ace? Is it less "sporty", less "pure", less "balanced", less "English"? Those things might all be true for some hard-core Ace owner, but not for any car enthusiast with an open-mind. For any reasonable person the Cobra is a great and iconic car, plus it's a hell of a lot faster and a lot more fun to drive. Trade your Cobra for my Ace? Seriously? That makes sense only if you've never driven a Cobra.
I get what you're saying. You keep using that analogy, but I don't think it's valid in terms of how these cars are perceived. The Cobra is essentially a factory built car; water cooled 914's are not.
Had Chevy (or another large name) been importing 914 bodies and putting V8's in them in the factory I think you'd see a different attitude towards the conversion from the air-cooled purists.
And I also think, had Cobras been built by private enthusiasts, you would see a different attitude towards them as well. If it wasn't Carol Shelby who had done the engine/trans conversions, in a legitimate partnership with Ford, they would just be a novelty car and certainly not worth the $1,000,000+ that they go for now.
I'm not making an argument either way...just saying I think there's a reason why there's a different attitude towards the Cobra "conversion" than towards a 914 conversion; and that reason is the legitimacy of the cars being built by a famous racing driver who was backed by an automobile manufacturer.
Look...if you love water-cooled cars, that's great. If you love air-cooled cars, that's great. Whatever puts a smile on your face, man!
The only "factory" involvement with Ford that Carroll Shelby had was supplying the engines and transmissions. He told Ford that AC was interested- He told AC that Ford was interested! He was a privateer until Ford saw how successful he was racing with their engines but it was all his (and Brock Yates I believe) engineering that put the power to the road. Not a bona-fide engineer in the group, just a couple of good 'ol fashioned hot rodders with an idea... kinda like what we've got here. 4, 6 or 8- if it's modified to fit your taste and style, you're a hot rodder by definition and that ain't a bad thing!
right and the first cobra's had a 260 ci engine.... and then those bastards had the balls to put a 427 ci monster in it !!!!!
terrible right ?
If more is better, then too much is perfect!
Posted by: Cracker Jan 4 2015, 06:45 AM
It was "allot of fun guys" but I'm done with this thread...some of you "hardcore six" fellas are two-shy of a full house (hard to reason with).
Mark: Your answers...
1) At that time, about 13 years ago, there wasn't a more powerful engine available (not even an LS)...
2) The S62 is one of the all time great v8's - my M5 would literally rattle the windows at idle. I miss that engine...my neighbors (and wife) do not.
Why wouldn't you use a cheaper engine that puts out more HP???
And doesn't need fake sound piped through the speakers
Posted by: jmmotorsports Jan 4 2015, 08:08 AM
t4 sound better? i guess if you like an engine that sounds like someone shakeing a coffee can with a handful of rocks in it
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 4 2015, 08:10 AM
It was "allot of fun guys" but I'm done with this thread...some of you "hardcore six" fellas are two-shy of a full house (hard to reason with).
I'm not a hardcore six guy, I will never do another one.
If the OP want's to post my top ten picks on engines, that I gave him in a PM, I believe a /6 was number 7 or 8.
My #1 pick was to build a mild T4 and get some seat time before going bigger. Then he was thinking V6, to which I replied a V8 is a better choice.
All I was asking for was an apples to apples comparison and you got all butt hurt.
Then plain and simple you got a hard-on for me and decided to be a cunt.
You were trying to belittle me, something I know you wouldn't do standing face to face.
All is good, I don't hold a grudge
Cheers
Posted by: Cracker Jan 4 2015, 08:18 AM
Mark - Glad you're "ok"...I was just playin' with you. I'd do it your face too. Also, I'd work on my vocabulary if I were you (calling me an: ass,
cunt, douche bag, scro(tum) and butt hurt - all in one thread). Maybe mark is really only 12-years old. Regardless, I shouldn't have responded
to the immature "name calling"...therefore, I have removed that response.
PS: Sorry to everyone else for having to witness this...now I'm done. :-)
Tony
It was "allot of fun guys" but I'm done with this thread...some of you "hardcore six" fellas are two-shy of a full house (hard to reason with).
I'm not a hardcore six guy, I will never do another one.
If the OP want's to post my top ten picks on engines, that I gave him in a PM, I believe a /6 was number 7 or 8.
My #1 pick was to build a mild T4 and get some seat time before going bigger. Then he was thinking V6, to which I replied a V8 is a better choice.
All I was asking for was an apples to apples comparison and you got all butt hurt.
Then plain and simple you got a hard-on for me and decided to be a cunt.
You were trying to belittle me, something I know you wouldn't do standing face to face.
All is good, I don't hold a grudge
Cheers
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 4 2015, 08:45 AM
Mark - Glad you're ok...I was just playin' with you - I'd do it your face too. You can be my B _ _ _ _ h 7 days a week (you've already been mine this week). Cheers!
Yehh... ok....I take that back... you do sound like a douche bag.
Later Scro
Posted by: speed metal army Jan 4 2015, 09:34 PM
Wow. Too bad about this thread.
I guess the only thing that could have been realistic would have been comments from people that have owned both. (A smokin hot type 4 vs a v8)
Too many comments from nice folks that havent owned either one. Bullsh!t.
Posted by: r_towle Jan 4 2015, 10:02 PM
Big type 4 motors outclass SBC all day long.
Subaru is a natural extension of the horizontally opposed motor that porsche and VW should have pursued but did not. 
Posted by: Rand Jan 4 2015, 10:38 PM
Has anyone ever put a Type 4 in a Corvette?
Posted by: Bruce Hinds Jan 4 2015, 10:52 PM
Has anyone ever put a Type 4 in a Corvette?
Now that's a great idea. Geezzzzz it would really lighten it up and put more weight in the rear... it may even handle more like a taildragger!
Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 5 2015, 02:07 AM
Wow. Too bad about this thread.
I guess the only thing that could have been realistic would have been comments from people that have owned both. (A smokin hot type 4 vs a v8)
Too many comments from nice folks that havent owned either one. Bullsh!t.
Posted by: bulitt Jan 5 2015, 05:34 AM
To the OP- Probably should have asked owners of conversions to comment on
cost, performance, drive-ability, negatives, positives etc.
Then you can make a reasonable decision based upon your own personal requirements factoring in stuff which is unknown to the general 914World population.
Such as - Your Skill Level? Your Resources? What kind of Driving Experience you are looking for? What dependability/performance trade offs you are willing to live with.
Posted by: Bruce Hinds Jan 5 2015, 08:34 AM
Wow. Too bad about this thread.
I guess the only thing that could have been realistic would have been comments from people that have owned both. (A smokin hot type 4 vs a v8)
Too many comments from nice folks that havent owned either one. Bullsh!t.
Not really - it's all about passion right! Isn't that why we're here? There are many of the owned both group to filter through and also purists, racers - everyone has their own perspective. It's good to hear it all.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 5 2015, 10:28 AM
Wow. Too bad about this thread.
I guess the only thing that could have been realistic would have been comments from people that have owned both. (A smokin hot type 4 vs a v8)
Too many comments from nice folks that havent owned either one. Bullsh!t.
Not really - it's all about passion right! Isn't that why we're here? There are many of the owned both group to filter through and also purists, racers - everyone has their own perspective. It's good to hear it all.
I apologize for getting pissed, but just because you don't agree with another members POV it doesn't give you the right to belittle that person. Plus this is a big boy's club with little rules, so don't dish it out if you can't take it.
Sure I like to see our cars with the engines they came from the factory, but I also appreciate good engineering, so I'm not near against other engines as one may think.
The fact that I find this old F/S ad, where I was just passing on info, quite amusing seeing as I'm such a alleged V8 hater.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=199951
Heck I'm seriously thinking of selling my '67 bus and building a vanagon westy (syncro would be the dream) with a VW1.8T or subi engine.
My POV is because the only (local Canadian) 914 V8's I've been exposed to is a couple of heavy iron block hacks, one LS1 that showed promise then blew up, one with a 1000hp that twisted the body and the project stalled and the rest never got off jackstands. (note I believe the LS1 failed do to builder error, not saying anything bad about the LS1)
With a newbie I rather see the car get off the jack stands with a under powered 1.7, then be the best project in the world...that never gets finished.
But again that is my POV, yours may be different, but even if we disagree we must respect the others persons POV.
Peace
Posted by: Steve Pratel Jan 5 2015, 11:13 AM
Has anyone tried the Buick/Rover 231 V8? I had one in a 62 Skylark back in highschool was 200HP/300FT +/- stock, and very light. I pulled the motor out of it and put it in a 70 Opel GT, but that car was rotten from the inside out and split in half at an unofficial Autocross event.
I believe Rover/Landrover then used the motor for many years afterwards, and Oldsmobile also had a version of the all aluminum small block.
Posted by: speed metal army Jan 5 2015, 03:40 PM
Wow. Too bad about this thread.
I guess the only thing that could have been realistic would have been comments from people that have owned both. (A smokin hot type 4 vs a v8)
Too many comments from nice folks that havent owned either one. Bullsh!t.
Not really - it's all about passion right! Isn't that why we're here? There are many of the owned both group to filter through and also purists, racers - everyone has their own perspective. It's good to hear it all.
I apologize for getting pissed, but just because you don't agree with another members POV it doesn't give you the right to belittle that person. Plus this is a big boy's club with little rules, so don't dish it out if you can't take it.
Sure I like to see our cars with the engines they came from the factory, but I also appreciate good engineering, so I'm not near against other engines as one may think.
The fact that I find this old F/S ad, where I was just passing on info, quite amusing seeing as I'm such a alleged V8 hater.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=199951
Heck I'm seriously thinking of selling my '67 bus and building a vanagon westy (syncro would be the dream) with a VW1.8T or subi engine.
My POV is because the only (local Canadian) 914 V8's I've been exposed to is a couple of heavy iron block hacks, one LS1 that showed promise then blew up, one with a 1000hp that twisted the body and the project stalled and the rest never got off jackstands. (note I believe the LS1 failed do to builder error, not saying anything bad about the LS1)
With a newbie I rather see the car get off the jack stands with a under powered 1.7, then be the best project in the world...that never gets finished.
But again that is my POV, yours may be different, but even if we disagree we must respect the others persons POV.
Peace
This cant be directed at me..?
I belittled someone? Okaayyy.....
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 5 2015, 05:37 PM
Has anyone tried the Buick/Rover 231 V8? ....
I believe Rover/Landrover then used the motor for many years afterwards, and Oldsmobile also had a version of the all aluminum small block.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V8_engine#215
Good point,the GM blocks all had the same problems in manufacture with distortion in post-casting heat-treat process,the scrap ratio got out of hand.
(Porosity in the block is a sandcasting defect,a die casting is solidified under immense pressure.The 356 T6 heat treat caused a warpage in the cylinder/casting interface)
At the time the thinwall cast-iron techniques were much improved.The costs to produce the alloy engines rendered them the most expensive.
The rights and tooling were sold to Rover who promptly solved the method of assembly.Light,OHV pushrod V8 out to 5L+.
The disadvantage today is the availability of modern V8s at reasonable cost.
I would presume the engine to be more easily sourced in England,and certainly many more builders there too.
I recall a fellow there selling forged stroker cranks and "Merlin" heads.http://www.realsteel.co.uk/
The KitCar world is a big user of the engine for it's low cost in mildly modified form.
http://www.v8tuner.co.uk/product.php?id=879
Now a kit like this has the same ++costs involved.
Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 5 2015, 06:24 PM
Has anyone tried the Buick/Rover 231 V8? I had one in a 62 Skylark back in highschool was 200HP/300FT +/- stock, and very light. I pulled the motor out of it and put it in a 70 Opel GT, but that car was rotten from the inside out and split in half at an unofficial Autocross event.
I believe Rover/Landrover then used the motor for many years afterwards, and Oldsmobile also had a version of the all aluminum small block.
I remember those motors and being very W I D E, just like the rest of the Buick motors...
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 5 2015, 06:40 PM
http://www.super7thheaven.co.uk/blog/rover-v8-4x4-haynes-roadster/
Power to weight of a 70's F1,and for cheep too.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=RPIEngineering
Some dyno results,and more.
http://www.realsteel.co.uk/
http://store.yellaterra.com.au/categories/roller-rocker-sets/rover/rover-range-rover-3-5-and-4-2-3500cc-4275cc-v8.html?sort=priceasc
Requisite RRockers.
http://thebritishcar.com/showthread.php?922-Cam-Theory-and-the-Rover-V8
A link to some good info re:valves.
http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/page.asp?parent2id=16&parent3id=19&parentid=5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHEnM_frZP4
I put this here as I was sure it was available with the Rover V8,back then,a nice example.
Edit:Probably not,tho I wonder if there is room for a Rover transversely.For sure.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=Phantom+Vortex+GTR&biw=1280&bih=633&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x4OrVJOZI82MyATK4YCgAw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=b7gfMKeIIzz1PM%253A%3BPI8YgCln8QP9aM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ricola.co.uk%252Fimages%252Fgtr_images%252Fold_chassis_1.JPG%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.madabout-kitcars.com%252Fforum%252Fshowthread.php%253Ft%253D566%2526page%253D2%3B410%3B308
Some more,in addition to a 914,a mid motor tubeframe.
Posted by: messix Jan 5 2015, 09:54 PM
several guys have run the buick light weight. Jrust is one.
the way I see it, it would be best to have and drive a T4 car first to experience the handling of the car with out having the stupid pedal ready to kill you before you know whats happening.
them after you kinda know the reasonable limits the cars handling has then you could add power and still respect the cars capability.
if you over drive the brakes with the 4 you will have a better chance of not going way over your head like if you had big power. and the there is the throttle lift over steer that with a larger engine will throw you into a snap spin much faster than the low compression T4 will.
Posted by: Bruce Hinds Jan 5 2015, 11:11 PM
several guys have run the buick light weight. Jrust is one.
the way I see it, it would be best to have and drive a T4 car first to experience the handling of the car with out having the stupid pedal ready to kill you before you know whats happening.
them after you kinda know the reasonable limits the cars handling has then you could add power and still respect the cars capability.
if you over drive the brakes with the 4 you will have a better chance of not going way over your head like if you had big power. and the there is the throttle lift over steer that with a larger engine will throw you into a snap spin much faster than the low compression T4 will.
Posted by: returf Jan 6 2015, 02:11 AM
If you were even to consider a rover v8 I would have to point out the following, unless you use the later model fuel injected range rover engine you would be getting 60's technology, no strength in the bottom end and just a small increase in hp from a decent 4 cly, and oil leaks beyond any that porsche could ever produce. We've been using them here for years and the only way to make a good one is to throw large amounts of money at them. lexus v8's are a good engine if you could get one to fit and are engineered from factory to be capable of excellent hp. ( the speedway boys are even fitting carbs to them and getting 500hp ) but the best v8 by far is the LS range. these are narrow, light and easy to get parts for. just my 2c. P.S. glad to see things settling down a bit on this thread
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 6 2015, 02:57 AM
http://www.aluminumv8.com/index.htm
http://www.kennedyenginc.com/Pages/EngineOptionList8cyl.aspx
http://www.taperformance.com/index.asp
http://www.automotivecomp.com/v8engines.htm
I'm guessing they could answer any questions that might come up about the mains seals.
Likely the only source here in North America.
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/rover-v8-engine
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/buick-215-engine
A 300$ core in rebuildable condition might suit a small budget Alloy V8 conversion.
A 500$ 914+300$ V8=800$ all in to begin the transmogrification.
A caveat is that the failure mode of the sleeves is corrosion and heat distortion.
A thorough ultrasonic inspection is mandatory to ensure the bores are good for refinishing.
A Rover block is more desirable for the sleeving method..
The latemodel Rover 4.6 is the one to get,with the 4-bolt skirt.
http://www.jack-brabham-engines.com/biography.aspx(Some present may not be aware of his tremendous achievement.)
A 540 hp na 5L is doing good,tho not inexpensive and real peaky,a full race.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=18&ved=0CG8QFjAHOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jalopyjournal.com%2Fforum%2Fthreads%2Fhot-rodding-a-buick-215.740708%2F&ei=s6SrVNitFdP3yQTG3oCgBA&usg=AFQjCNE4wMclZl6ytrN9PpEN2kSMmUjDRg&bvm=bv.82001339,d.aWw(Enthusiastic testimonials)
Small enough to fit an MG TD with a blower.Yikes.MGA too.
http://www.themgdoc.com/mgav8.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCtQKn6TZX8
Edit:Hmm.. What a great idea,a blown 5L 914.
A wrecking yard Eaton or
http://www.summitracing.com/int/search/part-type/superchargers-centrifugal-style-kits
Posted by: Steve Pratel Jan 6 2015, 07:31 AM
I figured that this engine option had seen it's day. Of course when We did this it was 1983-84 and dropped in a 1970 Opel GT. Not too many options back then and this motor was commonlyly used for such duty. Had a buddy who put one in his MG. We diddnt know it but the whole infrastructure of the unibody was rotten and broke just forward of the firewall. Almost pulled a Fred Flintstone in a reverse radius turn on the Cherahola Skyway at 60MPH..... Funny how things happen, 25 years later I had an almost fatal motorcycle accident on the same road. This time was a moonshine drinking local who coming the opposite direction came in my lane and pushed me to the shoulder. NOT fun when you are scraping pegs, and hit gravel. Thankfully was wearing PPE and though the bike was a total loss, I just threw away a riding suit and helmet and took advil/asprin for a few months.....
But back on topic, If I were to change out from the type 4, I'd likely go for another P car motor, or a 6 CYL Subaru.
COMPLETELY agree with being smart about your ability to handle power and in the particular car you are driving. The BEST thing you can do to drive faster is NOT a bigger motor, it is DRIVING LESSONS....... My driving skills, reaction time, etc has slowed significantly over the last 10-15 years. Could be TBI like my docs say from too many IED hits, but I think its just age. I have NO issues slowing down... So now I am just a double the yellow +10 guy instead of a triple the yellow..... ;-)
Posted by: carr914 Jan 6 2015, 07:58 AM
Wow . . .
Interesting that nobody actually mentioned that the V8 doesn't weigh that much more. I don't know how much lighter the LS is than the SBC, but the iron head and block SBC with all associated hardware only adds 250 lbs to the total car weight and the weight distribution is still 49/51%. It's no more than noticeable than taking a big friend for a ride.
The purist will bark all day long about how you ruin the handling, and the need to go bigger wheels and brakes. I agree to some extent, but the modification don't have to be extreme.
Drive one before you decide . . .
and if it's good enough for Pete Brock of Cobra Fame, it's good for me
Posted by: DBCooper Jan 6 2015, 09:17 AM
Oh my, that's nice. Pete Brock/Cobra-related huh? Well how about that.
Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 6 2015, 09:59 AM
Oh my, that's nice. Pete Brock/Cobra-related huh? Well how about that.
I rest my case...
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 6 2015, 05:08 PM
Small world.Made the name,been 36 years.
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Cherohala+Skyway+Visitor+Center/@35.3513357,-84.1694799,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x885e5f161ad05751:0x59a6428a890bacb4!8m2!3d35.3668935!4d-84.2974335?hl=en
Run by there '79,off the interstate in the fall in a thunderstorm,reminded me of home.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 7 2015, 07:01 AM
http://bringatrailer.com/2012/12/13/italian-american-1964-apollo-3500gt/
http://hooniverse.com/2012/05/24/hooniverse-asks-whats-your-most-realistic-but-obscure-engine-transplant-fantasy/
http://barchettasportscars.com/62.html
3L Formula 1 Championship winning V8.
The previous year they won the Constructors with the stock block.
Great potential and a light alternative.
Note they used a flat crank on a 3L or less race motor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_V8_engine
: As the aluminium block made this engine one of the lightest stock V8s built, it was an obvious choice for use in racing. Mickey Thompson entered a car powered by this engine in the 1962 Indianapolis 500. From 1946 to 1962 there had not been a single stock-block car entered in this famous race. In 1962 the Buick 215 was the only non-Offenhauser powered entry in the field of 33 cars. Rookie driver Dan Gurney qualified 7th and raced well for 92 laps before retiring with transmission problems.
That's some pedigree for the V8 block,nothing second rate about it.
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=13228
Dispels misinformation about what is available for this lightweight V8.
Posted by: falcor75 Jan 7 2015, 11:27 PM
The V8 out of a Volvo XC 90 is apparently very small for a V8, its designed by Yamaha if I remember correcly....perhaps something to look into?
Posted by: Mike Bellis Jan 8 2015, 12:28 AM
When will someone use this? 2.8L, 400hp @10,000 rpm...
http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562069.htm
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 8 2015, 12:30 AM
Rover porn,bike tb's?
Nope.
http://www.jenvey.co.uk/
I am sure they can meet your requirements.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 8 2015, 12:39 AM
When will someone use this? 2.8L, 400hp @10,000 rpm...
A lottery ticket and I'm there.Where I'm at now is the wrecking yard diamond in the rough.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 8 2015, 07:30 AM
The V8 out of a Volvo XC 90 is apparently very small for a V8, its designed by Yamaha if I remember correcly....perhaps something to look into?
A new Yamaha V8 engine was added in 2005. This 4.4-litre Volvo B8444S engine produced 288 hp (215 kW) for the first few models later upgraded to 311 hp (232 kW) and 325 lb·ft (441 N·m) of torque. Volvo sold just over 40,000 XC90 units in North America that year.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_B8444S_engine
Why the recyclers must have plenty to choose from.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENGINE-2005-2011-VOLVO-XC90-4-4L-8-CYL-1259019-/141264756228?fits=Make%3AVolvo|Model%3AXC90
A 60 deg V8,just like the Ford Sherman tank engine.The numbers are there.
Posted by: Spoke Jan 11 2015, 09:18 AM
I'm in the market for an engine more powerful than the 1.8L T4 now in my car.
Details about my 914: its a rust bucket from the rust belt; mostly repaired. Twisted frame from rear-end collision; reconstructed title; probably not worth that much. 911 3-in front suspension; redrilled 5-lug rear hubs with vented rotors; 6x16 front Fuchs; 7x16 rear Fuchs. Runs well and starts every time.
So the car isn't worth that much and I want more power. What is the most cost effective engine swap? I'm not looking for a killer engine, just something with 100-150 HP or so that won't break the bank.
I have a 2L core that I was intending to rebuild but not sure if the rebuild cost will eclipse the car's value so I'm thinking of other engine possibilities.
Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 11 2015, 12:20 PM
How bad is the rust? I know from browsing around the site that it seems to be a variable term- even mine is getting the floors replaced along with a minor hell hole issue before my new drivetrain goes in but mine has good longs and a decent body. Is it a little work or alot of work?
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 11 2015, 08:48 PM
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=247964
The v8 was ditched long ago. Car has been a roller for 2 years at least now. The buick 215 weight wise was great. I was still just under 2200lbs with my 70 914 with it in there. That motor is really deep with the water pump really sticking out. With my tranny in the stock location they cut out the firewall & made a cap for it to work. I had plans of putting an LS1 in its place. Even had the motor for a while but just didn't have the time to get to it. Eventually sold the motor.
I bought my current suby not long after. Just love that car & really love the subaru conversions period. Was figuring on a eg33 six but the WRX turbo motor is great. So when that came up I jumped.
For this setup I don't want to reinvent the wheel. It may go in as close to how it came out as possible. I am looking at all my options with it. Which include what I can do to improve the setup. I'd love nothing more than to throw it in & drive it. At the same time if I need to make some changes. I want to do it all before its in.
As it stands I need to do something different to mount the motor. I don't have a cradle for it. I might be able to copy my current cradle on the 2.5. I don't think I can & keep the motor with exhaust as it sits. I like the idea of coming from the front as it takes the exhaust out of the equation. Even using the headers to move the turbo in front would work with that mount. I won't know until I get it here & can physically compare things. I would like to do this the easiest way possible. Ideally if I can bolt is up with it's current setup. I will do that & just figure a way to mount it. Whatever I end up doing I will document here in this thread. The build threads are the best here when people post what they did & why. Everyone here helps get it to a finished car. Thats why I posted to get input from those who may have a better way. I don't claim to be a genius by any means
Q
The v8 was ditched long ago. Car has been a roller for 2 years at least now. The buick 215 weight wise was great. I was still just under 2200lbs with my 70 914 with it in there. That motor is really deep with the water pump really sticking out. With my tranny in the stock location they cut out the firewall & made a cap for it to work.
Q
Yeah for sure the waterpump should be moved to fit nicely in a 914 without any firewall butchery.
Lose the dizzy,cut the crank back closer to the timing chain or gear and fab a lightweight cover.
Use a thinner damper and serpentine ancillary drive.The why of it is of course the iron sleeves rather than the coated aluminum bores.
The wedge heads work just fine until your power demand becomes greater than what they can flow.SirJack cast his own heads and won big.
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 11 2015, 10:16 PM
You're Real question should be Durability.....T-4 wont last compared to LS1.....compromise subaroooooooooo
Posted by: 914werke Jan 11 2015, 10:22 PM
Durability? Ok so back to intentions. Most of us dont use these cars as daily drivers, (Hmm maybe that's worth a POLL) so should that even be a consideration?
Posted by: JRust Jan 11 2015, 10:28 PM
Yes I ran the buick 215 v8 for about 4 years. Oil leaks are definitely an issue you'll deal with. Mine was built & supposedly putting out 260hp. From my rear I would say it was more like 180 or so. You can make it work but with the suby options & the LS1 I don't know why you would. You still need to do an adapter plate & all the conversion stuff you'd need with any water cooled car. So while you can get the 215 to work. You'd spend more getting it right than using a newer motor.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 11 2015, 10:34 PM
KENNEDY ENGINEERED PRODUCTS
38822 17th Street East
Palmdale, California, 93550
(661) 272–1147
FAX (661) 272-1575
Please call between 7:00 A.M. - 3:00 P.M.
M-F
email: kennedy@kennedyeng.com
KEP P#1000
Buick/Olds to 914/VW TX
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 11 2015, 11:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNfq310iOTI
Hmm..an F1 winning block in a 914.Sure,that can work with a little calculating.
This is the bottom end of the RepcoBrabham block.
Steel caps and cross bolted with a modified y-block skirt.
Billet 4340 crank and rods.
A custom camchain housing was cast up and fastened to the front of the block.
The coolant passages moved from the front.
Beautiful.
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 11 2015, 11:40 PM
Durability? Ok so back to intentions. Most of us dont use these cars as daily drivers, (Hmm maybe that's worth a POLL) so should that even be a consideration?
Youre kidding Right ?? hooped up t-4 compared to LS-1...
An LS1 is 350 hp and with the factory injection will both start and run like a dream.
A real done up type 4 will sound much nicer but obviolsuy about a bit more than half the power.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 11 2015, 11:43 PM
This is the stock Oldsmobile 215 block in 1965 as modified by Jack Brabham.
High stack injection,a dizzy run off the back of the chain drive or a stub shaft in the valley.The waterpump is driven by the stubshaft.
The coolant pipes are brazed tubing directing water to the block and heads.The drysump scavenger pump is driven by a Gilmer belt.
Some of these ideas are suitable for a shorter engine length to fit more easily in the 914 bay.
A transverse installation is also possible with a wide selection of FWD gearboxes both auto and manual for cheap.
http://rodneydickman.com/getraginfo.htm
A Northstar+F40 Getrag 6spd is a viable option for 300+ hp
http://www.richardmoser.com/DOHC.htm
http://www.richardmoser.com/
A really sharp engineer.
That's hilarious,I had pants similar to those,bells in the '70s,a fad fashion statement.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 12 2015, 09:39 PM
A few links to mid engine projects.Northstar + G6 TX.DOHC V6s.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000030.html
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000028.html
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000137.html
http://60degreev6.com/forum/group.php?discussionid=3&do=discuss
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/117227.html
Some skilled work going on here.Go ahead,look around.
Posted by: Rand Jan 12 2015, 11:31 PM
Is it just me who feels like our 914 forum is getting overloaded with a bunch of stuff we don't want lately? I don't care about the junk that belongs in a Fiero forum et al. So much so I suspect this is why that other thread got locked because of it. Slow down man and focus.
Posted by: Mike Bellis Jan 12 2015, 11:34 PM
Is it just me who feels like our 914 forum is getting overloaded with a bunch of stuff we don't want lately? I don't care about the junk that belongs in a Fiero forum et al.
Veekry9 is a borderline spammer but he does come up with cool stuff sometimes...
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 13 2015, 12:31 AM
Hey everyone, just considering the above.
An LS1 is 350 hp and with the factory injection will both start and run like a dream.
A real done up type 4 will sound much nicer but obviolsuy about a bit more than half the power.
Where can you shove an LS1?The cost the criteria.
A poo caller has interjected a poo poo,a Narpinista.You have your opinion,tho useless.Focus on that.
A 30K 914 is not this.Bang for buck an American V8 is hard to beat in North America,the recyclers have plenty for cheap.
A contention we all have to do it the same is a fallacy,hot air.An aluminum V8 manufactured since the time of 356 is still a viable candidate in 2015.A Northstar coated bore V8 is also a good fit as you can see clearly on the Fiero site.Plenty of Americans have created their own mids with good performance and economy.To answer the question of what to do with his 914,"Anything he wants".
http://www.ebay.com/itm/99-00-01-Range-Rover-4-6L-V8-Engine-Motor-OEM-LKQ-135K/361164733562?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27674%26meid%3D3c8657c04d254c4e8cffb5ddfc3debf9%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D261677550161&rt=nc
This is a bargain.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 13 2015, 12:56 AM
I'm in the market for an engine more powerful than the 1.8L T4 now in my car.
Details about my 914: its a rust bucket from the rust belt; mostly repaired. Twisted frame from rear-end collision; reconstructed title; probably not worth that much. 911 3-in front suspension; redrilled 5-lug rear hubs with vented rotors; 6x16 front Fuchs; 7x16 rear Fuchs. Runs well and starts every time.
So the car isn't worth that much and I want more power. What is the most cost effective engine swap? I'm not looking for a killer engine, just something with 100-150 HP or so that won't break the bank.
I have a 2L core that I was intending to rebuild but not sure if the rebuild cost will eclipse the car's value so I'm thinking of other engine possibilities.
A fine selection of cheap used blocks and TX are available for your perusal here online,a great advantage over the netless past.
Would 220 hp be ok at the same cost of 150?A four,six or eight,what is the desired smoothness and at what economy?
Shall you be force feeding the holes or just sucking it in?What is your budget for this re-engineering of a rusted relic?
Pertinent queries to be resolved only by you,I have no doubt the lighting will be modern.If the Targa is worth 4k and a 2k budget for the engine,a 16V-4 makes sense for economy and reliability,a cornucopia of choice awaits you.
Perhaps a Chevy.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Pontiac-Saturn-Ecotec-LNF-LDK-2-0L-Turbo-Engine-Brand-New-Kappa-RWD-/171040302671
Wish to keep it in the family?Jump at this one,going fast.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-Porsche-944-S2-3-0L-Engine-3-0-LONG-BLOCK-MOTOR-w-only-23k-original-miles-/151547965293#shpCntId
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 13 2015, 09:06 PM
04-LS1-GTO shaved of the ancillaries will fit nicely with room for a damper,shorter than stock.
Piping will be necessary to the coolant passages,welded tubing to a remote pump,driven by a jackshaft perhaps.
The deep pan will be discarded for a dry sump system.The ancillaries driven by a serpentine belt.
A plan to install an engine for your highpowered 914 must be just that a plan,making drawings of parts to fit.
Stretching the wheelbase is an option if a custom 914 is considered.Part of a plan.
A modification of the suspension to suit the changed CG and CM likely be necessary to suit those changed conditions.
Is it possible to fit an LS1 without cutting the firewall front and rear?Maybe,a tape measure is handy.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000137.html
Posted by: thelogo Jan 13 2015, 09:57 PM
Isn't the best way to do it just to go the kit car route
Where you just use everything from a donor corvette
Enging !
Trans?
Brakes
And on and on ???
Suspension ???
And you would always have parts readily available
Posted by: thelogo Jan 13 2015, 10:11 PM
And can someone tell me what is so special
About the renegade hybrid setup
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 13 2015, 10:13 PM
Well,the trans won't fit in a 914 mid firstly and I want a 914 to modify in my own way.
A number of fine 914s are on the market for the original experience,pony up the dough.
A rusted hulk of a 914 with mice nests is what some are starting with on their journey to 914 valhalla.
My take is,with that amount of labour I can make and have my own flavour.
Not for me ,but I like what he did,looks a little like the Vette you mentioned.
Posted by: thelogo Jan 13 2015, 10:40 PM
Well,the trans won't in a 914 mid firstly and I want a 914 to modify in my own way.
A number of fine 914s are on the market for the original experience,pony up the dough.
A rusted hulk of a 914 with mice nests is what some are starting with on their journey to 914 valhalla.
My take is,with that amount of labour I can make and have my own flavour.
Not for me ,but I like what he did,looks a little like the Vette you mentioned.
I know I said use everything from a donor car
But not the taillights
Posted by: Mike Bellis Jan 13 2015, 10:47 PM
And can someone tell me what is so special
About the renegade hybrid setup
They have an off the shelf, proven, engineered system. You pay for their years of experience and development.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 13 2015, 10:58 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB0IQGzecfM
http://www.renegadehybrids.com/
Says it all,an economical way to get some ponys under the hood,whether LS or Rover.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 13 2015, 11:44 PM
Well,the trans won't in a 914 mid firstly and I want a 914 to modify in my own way.
A number of fine 914s are on the market for the original experience,pony up the dough.
A rusted hulk of a 914 with mice nests is what some are starting with on their journey to 914 valhalla.
My take is,with that amount of labour I can make and have my own flavour.
Not for me ,but I like what he did,looks a little like the Vette you mentioned.
I know I said use everything from a donor car
But not the taillights
I guess the simplicity of a flat panel with what appears to be LED lites is not to my taste.
He's added some slots as detail that look ok,great effort to make wider to cover up the meats.
I'll search for another view of the car.
So yeah,way too boxy,not enough shape other than a cube.
A shape with some 3D contour is needed.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 14 2015, 12:03 AM
Not a flat panel anywhere,40K for sale.
http://classiccars.com/listings/view/252031/1955-porsche-550-for-sale-in-san-diego-california-92101
More to my liking,although a lighter body would be better.Like the colour.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 14 2015, 12:54 AM
What to connect the LS7T to once you've made the decision to go V8.
I had dismissed the SuBee 6TX as too light for V8 duty but clearly "returf" has shown it to be robust.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=subaru+6+speed+transaxle&client=ubuntu&hs=8YJ&channel=fs&biw=1280&bih=633&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=zw-2VISvJMuqyASd-IGQCQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#imgdii=_&imgrc=_ReI1L9iw34I3M%253A%3BvI3Kz7gLaC6nZM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi41.photobucket.com%252Falbums%252Fe297%252Fvwhammer%252Ftransaxle.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.motorgeek.com%252Fviewtopic.php%253Ff%253D15%2526t%253D10136%3B300%3B184
SUPERCAR GEARBOX http://www.xtrac.com/
Xtrac (www.xtrac.com), a British racing transmission design company, has developed a generic 6-speed synchromesh transverse transaxle for high-performance road cars. The gearbox handles up to 1,100 Nm of torque, has a maximum gear ratio spread from 15.79:1 to 1.866:1, and weighs just 97 kg. Its generic front plate mates to the engine bellhousing, and the design eliminates the need for an OEM to develop its own high-cost gearbox.
Expensive no doubt.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 14 2015, 03:41 AM
Yes I ran the buick 215 v8 for about 4 years. Oil leaks are definitely an issue you'll deal with. Mine was built & supposedly putting out 260hp. From my rear I would say it was more like 180 or so. You can make it work but with the suby options & the LS1 I don't know why you would. You still need to do an adapter plate & all the conversion stuff you'd need with any water cooled car. So while you can get the 215 to work. You'd spend more getting it right than using a newer motor.
http://rustybuttrusty.com/2014/08/21/water-cooled-1970-porsche-914-v8/
Do you know this car?
The writer is right,those flares are hideous and must be replaced.
In all probability the 914 is still available,maybe 2500?
Posted by: Steve Pratel Jan 14 2015, 08:01 AM
Not a flat panel anywhere,40K for sale.
http://classiccars.com/listings/view/252031/1955-porsche-550-for-sale-in-san-diego-california-92101
More to my liking,although a lighter body would be better.Like the colour.
..............
I think my future just changed. this is beautifulPosted by: DBCooper Jan 14 2015, 09:21 AM
That one's pretty expensive, try http://www.spyderclub.com. Their big upgrade used to be T4 engines (from a T1) but are now tending more toward Subaru. I used to covet one too, but those are really really small cars, so if you're tall you kind of stick up what seems to be an unnatural amount.
Posted by: monkeyboy Jan 14 2015, 10:03 AM
What to connect the LS1 to once you've made the decision to go V8.
I had dismissed the SuBee 6TX as too light for V8 duty but clearly "returf" has shown it to be robust.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=subaru+6+speed+transaxle&client=ubuntu&hs=8YJ&channel=fs&biw=1280&bih=633&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=zw-2VISvJMuqyASd-IGQCQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#imgdii=_&imgrc=_ReI1L9iw34I3M%253A%3BvI3Kz7gLaC6nZM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi41.photobucket.com%252Falbums%252Fe297%252Fvwhammer%252Ftransaxle.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.motorgeek.com%252Fviewtopic.php%253Ff%253D15%2526t%253D10136%3B300%3B184
SUPERCAR GEARBOXXtrac (www.xtrac.com), a British racing transmission design company, has developed a generic 6-speed synchromesh transverse transaxle for high-performance road cars. The gearbox handles up to 1,100 Nm of torque, has a maximum gear ratio spread from 15.79:1 to 1.866:1, and weighs just 97 kg. Its generic front plate mates to the engine bellhousing, and the design eliminates the need for an OEM to develop its own high-cost gearbox.
Expensive no doubt.
I'd stick to an Albins or Mendiola myself. Been on enough trips through the dunes in high horsepower cars to trust them.
If they can take a 750 hp LS motor with four passengers and paddle tires and wheelie at will, they will be fine in my car.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 14 2015, 11:17 AM
Unique enough to inquire the price,the application a road/track car with giant power.
The transverse arrangement of the main and countershafts is a compact design.
The buggy app shows off the Mendeola TX,demonstrating great strength.
http://mendeolamotors.com/trans-proto/?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=29
The price difference is what sets them apart.
Posted by: Tilly74 Jan 14 2015, 11:29 AM
After reading all 9 pages of this, I feel I should add my $.03
Aren't we lucky to have so many options? With the help of this forum and people trying multiple combos and setups, there's only one direction for the 914 to head and that's back on the road. Maybe what this forum needs is more organization in the "garage"...
Air cooled section
-type IV
-Six
Water cooled section
-V8
-Subaru
-Other
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 14 2015, 11:53 AM
Lots of good high hp/tq. transaxle options over at
CaliforniaMotorsports.com
They are in Lake Havasu, Az.
Roger supplies the kit car guys like FactoryFive, Ultima, and hooked us up too 
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 14 2015, 12:33 PM
I've considered how much work it would take to create a thread of vendors for our application,the unsung Porsche 914.
A table of categories to save time searching the rabbithole of the web.
"Cylinderhead Rebuilder" is one category.
"Transaxle Rebuilder" is another.
"T4 High Performance" is a third.
In the Classified section a list of "for sale" and "wanted" exclusively that is cross-referenced by part name automatically so that a manual search is not required.
Posted by: Mueller Jan 14 2015, 02:50 PM
And can someone tell me what is so special
About the renegade hybrid setup
They have an off the shelf, proven, engineered system. You pay for their years of experience and development.
^And customer support...a web based forum can only go so far helping you.
If you could do it all yourself you wouldn't be here asking questions, you'd be doing something to the car.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 14 2015, 03:24 PM
https://www.google.ca/search?q=vw+vr6&biw=1280&bih=633&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=bty2VKfJFcrzUsmjgtgP&sqi=2&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=vw+vr6+engine&revid=707260028%5battachmentid=483088%5d.
The World of the modern American mid.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000014.html
Will it fit?Yes.
Can you add turbo?Yes.
Can You have a 6spd?Yes.
What's not to like?
http://www.schimmelperformance.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx067rRjyBs
Posted by: monkeyboy Jan 14 2015, 04:07 PM
Will that fit under the stock engine cover?
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 14 2015, 04:22 PM
Might have a point there,I'm sure the Fiero's bay is slightly taller by 50mm or so.
(edit:)The pix in "bmwguru"s thd clearly shows the clearance is ample.Compact engine.
Posted by: Mueller Jan 14 2015, 04:30 PM
Will that fit under the stock engine cover?
VR6 into a 914...sorta...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=14819
To be honest with you I cannot remember why I sold the car...stupidity possibly?!
....I "think" I would have to have smogged the car at the time?!
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 14 2015, 04:39 PM
Transversely was considered?
Posted by: Mueller Jan 14 2015, 04:40 PM
Transversely was considered?
Never.....that's a FWD setup only!!!!!
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 14 2015, 05:01 PM
69 Muria
Sneak a peek at this.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=miura+engine&client=ubuntu&hs=2Qt&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=F_S2VNHCK-bjsASknYLoBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=633#imgdii=_&imgrc=aSXcrEtN5o4ZSM%253A%3Bs4AuVJ7nUD5SDM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fupload.wikimedia.org%252Fwikipedia%252Fcommons%252Fb%252Fba%252F1965_Turin_Salon_Miura_Chassis_-1.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipedia.org%252Fwiki%252FLamborghini_Miura%3B4272%3B2848
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 14 2015, 05:05 PM
Something exotic perhaps?
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/maserati-engine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs5_uok5Gsk
Posted by: Cracker Jan 14 2015, 05:21 PM
Talk about "off topic"! This thread has produced a first - unsubscribing! Every time I read the latest response it has nothing to do with the OP's question.
Focus people. Focus! 
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 14 2015, 05:33 PM
V8s like this,V8s like that,I have 4 flat engines,one of which I will install eventually.And yes it is a Porsche.
A discussion of options,just was informed Mueller had a VR6 installed longitudinally.Way to go Mueller.
Simply avoid thds that upset you.If it doesn't blow your skirt up,don't have a hissy fit.
Posted by: Mike Bellis Jan 14 2015, 08:11 PM
V8s like this,V8s like that,I have 4 flat engines,one of which I will install eventually.And yes it is a Porsche.
A discussion of options,just was informed Mueller had a VR6 installed longitudinally.Way to go Mueller.
Simply avoid thds that upset you.If it doesn't blow your skirt up,don't have a hissy fit.
Are you off your meds again?
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 14 2015, 08:57 PM
Talk about "off topic"! This thread has produced a first - unsubscribing! Every time I read the latest response it has nothing to do with the OP's question.
Focus people. Focus!
And to think you got right pissy with me because I dared mention a six....
Posted by: Mueller Jan 14 2015, 10:43 PM
Talk about "off topic"! This thread has produced a first - unsubscribing! Every time I read the latest response it has nothing to do with the OP's question.
Focus people. Focus!
What more is there to add to the original question?
Nothing, it has all been covered...
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 15 2015, 12:20 PM
If you were even to consider a rover v8 I would have to point out the following, unless you use the later model fuel injected range rover engine you would be getting 60's technology, no strength in the bottom end and just a small increase in hp from a decent 4 cly, and oil leaks beyond any that porsche could ever produce. We've been using them here for years and the only way to make a good one is to throw large amounts of money at them. lexus v8's are a good engine if you could get one to fit and are engineered from factory to be capable of excellent hp. ( the speedway boys are even fitting carbs to them and getting 500hp ) but the best v8 by far is the LS range. these are narrow, light and easy to get parts for. just my 2c. P.S. glad to see things settling down a bit on this thread
"returf" Has a valid point,as a neat package of modern DOHC 32V can be had at a low cost from the JDM.
The ecu would likely have to be ditched as they are tightly integrated with the vehicle's systems.
A dropin with some fabwork for the cradle+headers+cooling+++.
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/toyota-v8-engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_UZ_engine
KEP p#8600 bellhousing.
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/nissan-titan-engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VK_engine
KEP p#5460 bellhousing.
Limiting an engine purchase to the ubiquitous LS series discards the low cost solution of these abundant medium V8s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJOiGQt_DbE
Posted by: JRust Jan 15 2015, 02:22 PM
Die Thread Die Die Thread Die
Posted by: DBCooper Jan 15 2015, 02:29 PM
Yes, please, enough is enough. Question, was answered. More than answered, now die, die die.
Posted by: Mueller Jan 15 2015, 02:33 PM
If you were even to consider a rover v8 I would have to point out the following, unless you use the later model fuel injected range rover engine you would be getting 60's technology, no strength in the bottom end and just a small increase in hp from a decent 4 cly, and oil leaks beyond any that porsche could ever produce. We've been using them here for years and the only way to make a good one is to throw large amounts of money at them. lexus v8's are a good engine if you could get one to fit and are engineered from factory to be capable of excellent hp. ( the speedway boys are even fitting carbs to them and getting 500hp ) but the best v8 by far is the LS range. these are narrow, light and easy to get parts for. just my 2c. P.S. glad to see things settling down a bit on this thread
"returf" Has a valid point,as a neat package of modern DOHC 32V can be had at a low cost from the JDM.
The ecu would likely have to be ditched as they are tightly integrated with the vehicle's systems.
A dropin with some fabwork for the cradle+headers+cooling+++.
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/toyota-v8-engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_UZ_engine
KEP p#8600 bellhousing.
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/nissan-titan-engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VK_engine
KEP p#5460 bellhousing.
Limiting an engine purchase to the ubiquitous LS series discards the low cost solution of these abundant medium V8s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJOiGQt_DbE
What a ripoff for that adapter plate.... I can see a few hundred dollars for $30 in material...this guy is just raping people that don't know any better or must be the only person making them.
Posted by: Mueller Jan 15 2015, 02:34 PM
Yes, please, enough is enough. Question, was answered. More than answered, now die, die die.
I like seeing the oddball engines and options from veekry9, he is a little off just like me!
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 15 2015, 02:40 PM
The old-er stock (pre-2004) LS1's redline at 6k; my LS3 redlines at 6500. However, I never have to get close to the limit (shift light is set at 6100) due to the mountain of torque available.
Regarding non-Porsche drivetrains being allowed to run PCA A/X events...generally yes. Now, PCA "club racing" is an entirely different animal. Only Porsche drive-lines/components allowed.
I couldn't agree more. I had a big 4, didn't like the driveability so I switched to a six. I am also a fan of v8 914's though I have never ridden in one. From a gearing standpoint what is the red line of a stock aluminum ls1? I noticed the peak hp is around 5800 rpms.
Curious about the other politics. Does PCA allow non Porsche power plants at an Autocross?
I wish I could afford two 914's. One with a v8.
Did someone say Porsche drive-line/ components allowed? Appearing at Porsche Club events very soon...
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/porsche-928-engine
Seems like a reasonable price as long as the bores are intact.A re+re of the bearings and rings with a topend rebuild and you have yourself a sang pur Porsche 914.
Other than 918-S,who has seat time in such a renn blaster?
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 15 2015, 02:41 PM
If you were even to consider a rover v8 I would have to point out the following, unless you use the later model fuel injected range rover engine you would be getting 60's technology, no strength in the bottom end and just a small increase in hp from a decent 4 cly, and oil leaks beyond any that porsche could ever produce. We've been using them here for years and the only way to make a good one is to throw large amounts of money at them. lexus v8's are a good engine if you could get one to fit and are engineered from factory to be capable of excellent hp. ( the speedway boys are even fitting carbs to them and getting 500hp ) but the best v8 by far is the LS range. these are narrow, light and easy to get parts for. just my 2c. P.S. glad to see things settling down a bit on this thread
"returf" Has a valid point,as a neat package of modern DOHC 32V can be had at a low cost from the JDM.
The ecu would likely have to be ditched as they are tightly integrated with the vehicle's systems.
A dropin with some fabwork for the cradle+headers+cooling+++.
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/toyota-v8-engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_UZ_engine
KEP p#8600 bellhousing.
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/nissan-titan-engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VK_engine
KEP p#5460 bellhousing.
Limiting an engine purchase to the ubiquitous LS series discards the low cost solution of these abundant medium V8s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJOiGQt_DbE
Veek's... are the toyota and nissan engines iron or aluminum blocks??
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 15 2015, 02:54 PM
If you were even to consider a rover v8 I would have to point out the following, unless you use the later model fuel injected range rover engine you would be getting 60's technology, no strength in the bottom end and just a small increase in hp from a decent 4 cly, and oil leaks beyond any that porsche could ever produce. We've been using them here for years and the only way to make a good one is to throw large amounts of money at them. lexus v8's are a good engine if you could get one to fit and are engineered from factory to be capable of excellent hp. ( the speedway boys are even fitting carbs to them and getting 500hp ) but the best v8 by far is the LS range. these are narrow, light and easy to get parts for. just my 2c. P.S. glad to see things settling down a bit on this thread
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/toyota-v8-engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_UZ_engine
KEP p#8600 bellhousing.
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/nissan-titan-engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VK_engine
KEP p#5460 bellhousing.
What a ripoff for that adapter plate.... I can see a few hundred dollars for $30 in material...this guy is just raping people that don't know any better or must be the only person making them.
It's labour intensive work to fab the patterns to ram the sand and heat and pour the metal for a small batch production,essentially an under 20pc demand per annum,if that.The price reflects the exclusive nature of the castings.They refuse to make them at a loss.
Ferrari will cast a replacement cylinder head for your 250 at a price.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 15 2015, 02:59 PM
If you were even to consider a rover v8 I would have to point out the following, unless you use the later model fuel injected range rover engine you would be getting 60's technology, no strength in the bottom end and just a small increase in hp from a decent 4 cly, and oil leaks beyond any that porsche could ever produce. We've been using them here for years and the only way to make a good one is to throw large amounts of money at them. lexus v8's are a good engine if you could get one to fit and are engineered from factory to be capable of excellent hp. ( the speedway boys are even fitting carbs to them and getting 500hp ) but the best v8 by far is the LS range. these are narrow, light and easy to get parts for. just my 2c. P.S. glad to see things settling down a bit on this thread
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/toyota-v8-engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_UZ_engine
KEP p#8600 bellhousing.
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/nissan-titan-engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VK_engine
KEP p#5460 bellhousing.
What a ripoff for that adapter plate.... I can see a few hundred dollars for $30 in material...this guy is just raping people that don't know any better or must be the only person making them.
It's labour intensive work to fab the patterns to ram the sand and heat and pour the metal for a small batch production,essentially an under 20pc demand per annum,if that.The price reflects the exclusive nature of the castings.They refuse to make them at a loss.
Ferrari will cast a replacement cylinder head for your 250 at a price.
I have the exact same carbs on my 2007cc Gene Berg engine in my bus. DCNF 42
Posted by: john77 Jan 15 2015, 03:01 PM
This thread reminds me of the end of Terminator, when the Terminator's legs have been blown off, and Linda Hamilton is so relieved, and you're so relieved, because it's finally over, there's no way that killer robot is coming back from this. No. Way. And then. Hold on. What's this? You gotta be kidding me? Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 15 2015, 03:11 PM
Here a 914 with a turbo.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 15 2015, 03:18 PM
Your GuvNor,a great actor,and Ron Reagan before him.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 15 2015, 03:22 PM
Here a 914 with a turbo.
One of a kind,strange stuff and without luggage space for two,so a limited utility car,no doubt powerful.
Posted by: DBCooper Jan 15 2015, 03:33 PM
Yes, please, enough is enough. Question, was answered. More than answered, now die, die die.
I like seeing the oddball engines and options from veekry9, he is a little off just like me!
Super. So why don't you start a thread just for that? I like to wander a bit too, but with its own thread maybe it would all stay in one on-topic place? Sure would make things easier for other people.
Posted by: veekry9 Jan 15 2015, 04:02 PM
A major undertaking to recondition the 928S2 and install with SuBee 6TX as an adapter bellhousing must be fabricated and custom clutch and pressure plate sourced.The prices have dropped for these blocks and makes them a highcost alternative for the connoisseur of the Porsche.
If the bores are damaged the reconditioning is not cheap,tho sure.These 2 are among the best.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikasil
http://www.mt-llc.com/
http://www.cvtech-aab.com/index.php?id_cms=23&controller=cms&id_lang=3
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=206097
One of a kind?
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