Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: malcolm2 Jan 6 2015, 09:17 PM

I am preparing to send Dr Evil a patient, my crunchy, grindy trans. I decide to remove the exhaust and the HEs to give me some room.

The HEs are complete, but they do have some loose rusty areas. Mainly at the fan end. Even a hole in one where the axle dimple is. The welds on both ends are loose or broken. I am probably losing some heat efficiency. if there is such a thing.

Is there anything that I can do while the trans is gone to close up some holes and tighten up the seams?

I found some repair tape made for this sort of thing. I used another similar product on my 85 VW Cabriolet. I cut up a coke can and patched the hole, then wrapped it in the heat sensitive material. Once the muffler got hot it all sealed up.

Anyone do anything to these old exhausts and HEs? dealing with a '75 BTW.

Thanks,

Clark

Posted by: mepstein Jan 6 2015, 09:22 PM

Sounds like a bigger problem than a coke can and duct tape can fix

Posted by: colingreene Jan 6 2015, 09:27 PM

i repaired mine, it can be done.

Posted by: malcolm2 Jan 6 2015, 09:38 PM

Maybe I made it sound worse than it is. here are some pictures.
Both sides are loose.


This one is not loose, but not sealed either. Is that the way it worked in '75?


Here is the hole in the dimple.


And the other FAN end.


And the COKE Can repair. It was the tail pipe, I thought it was the muffler, which is looking pretty ruff too. Time to kill 2 birds on this post.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jan 6 2015, 09:46 PM

Whatever you use it needs to resist the high heat of the exhaust pipe. While you're looking, be sure there are no cracks or holes in the actual pipes, the escaping exhaust will get pumped into the cabin when you turn on the heat.

You could probably repair by solder or brazing a patch....

Posted by: malcolm2 Jan 6 2015, 09:51 PM

I have some FIBER FIX, but they have a style that I should use instead. It is good for 850 degrees. I see now that the regular stuff is only good to 300*F.

https://www.fiberfix.com/product/new-heat-wrap-2-x-70/

Posted by: ndfrigi Jan 6 2015, 10:13 PM

Exactly same issue on my 75 HE that is why i went to early HE.

Posted by: r_towle Jan 6 2015, 10:23 PM

Best thing you could do with those is toss them in a lake and see if they float.

Then find a nice set of early heat exchangers and give yourself 10-15% more power and lower heat from the engine.

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 7 2015, 07:42 AM

....and REAL heat. Do the backdate. Hardest part of the project is pulling off the late system. Lots of muffler options too.

Posted by: malcolm2 Jan 7 2015, 10:08 AM

It is all off NOW.... But my accountant said I could pay Dr. Evil for the Tranny. Not sure if I could slip new or better HE and exhaust in during this repair.

Are there any differences as far as attaching early HE to a '75 1.8 exhaust ports? And will the hook up to the fan and the heat tubes use be included as it is with the '75 HE?

Posted by: malcolm2 Jan 7 2015, 10:17 AM

He is a picture of the early HE currently for sale in Oregon. The connection to the fan and the cock-pit tube is not built-in like my '75s are. more parts = more $.

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 7 2015, 10:17 AM

you will need to covert to the earlier ducting system. those darned accountants get in the way every time. the 1.7/1.8 and 2.0 he's will bolt right up.

Posted by: monkeyboy Jan 7 2015, 10:45 AM

I am pretty sure you will need the whole kit. New exhaust, new exhaust hanger, new muffler, new J Tubes, new heater flappers, and a dual outlet blower if you don't have one.

It wasn't as bad for me. My car came with nothing so I had to buy it all anyway.

Posted by: rjames Jan 7 2015, 10:48 AM

Convert. It's one of the biggest 'stock' improvements you could make to your car for relatively little $. If you look hard you can probably really do it right and find a set of stainless exchangers and a muffler for $400-$600.

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 7 2015, 11:02 AM

A is where the warm air elbows attach. B is where the branch ducting attach. So...2 elbows, the left and right branches and clamping parts, l&r j tubes and a set of flapper valves. Your current valves should work if serviceable. The appropriate muffler hanger will be required for which ever version of he's you decide to go with. The 2.0 differ from the 1.7/1.8.

Posted by: malcolm2 Jan 7 2015, 11:21 AM

I've been practicing my "searching" and found lots of old ads with pictures.

did I get it right?



It looks like the 2.0 HEs have shorter and "flatter" pipes from the HE to the muffler flange. Is that the difference? Then comes the diffs with the muffler, I guess. Am I missing any other diffs?

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 7 2015, 11:40 AM

Correct on the 2.0 he's and where the pieces attach. Those look like a clean set of 1.7/1.8s.

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 7 2015, 11:41 AM

Correct sir. The 1.7/1.8 muffler flanges are curved upwards at the end whereas the 2.0's are nearly straight on. This means you need a different muffler and muffler hanger depending on the ones you get. The heater stuff on the other end is the same for both styles of early HE's.

Posted by: bdstone914 Jan 7 2015, 11:48 AM

You also need the earlier warm air guides. Those are the plates that go between the heat exchangers and the engine case. And a matching muffler bracket for which ever type muffler you get. The only parts from you system that are used are the flapper boxes. I gave most if not all of those parts and a pair of SSI heat exchangers if you decide to go that route.

Posted by: barefoot Jan 7 2015, 11:50 AM

If your CFO won't approve the backdate budget, lots of 75-76 H/E's are around that folks will about give away. Can tide you over till the checkbook fattenes up a bit

Posted by: larss Jan 7 2015, 11:51 AM

I had a (good) welder to repair my heat exchangers, worked out well.


/Lars S

Posted by: r_towle Jan 7 2015, 03:38 PM

I was hoping Bruce would chime in, he should have everything.

rich

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jan 7 2015, 04:45 PM

Convert ! go stainless !
Price of admission is tough but you can subtract the money you would waste on attempting to repair those late boxes.
After converting there will be no hassle finding parts like there is with late boxes.
And you'll have heat.
Accountant ....... Really ?

Posted by: stevegm Jan 7 2015, 05:46 PM

If you decide to buy a pair of HE I have a set of SS 2.0 exchangers that the previous owner had coated. They are black. They look awesome. Used about 10 minutes. I'm going with an original 1.7 and plan to sell them. I also have a couple other sets of SS 2.0 HE that are not coated.

EDIT - If your current HEs curve up at the back right before the muffler flange, I do not believe that 2.0L HEs will work unless you also change the muffler.

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 7 2015, 05:50 PM

steve, do yours have ss flanges or steel? try a magnet if you're unsure.

Posted by: colingreene Jan 7 2015, 06:01 PM

Pretty sure he means his wife.

Posted by: stevegm Jan 7 2015, 06:02 PM

Do you mean the vertical plates that the muffler bolts to? If so, a magnet does not stick to them. I just checked. Here are a couple photos of the coated ones. Sorry the photos aren't better. It is cold in the garage so I was in a hurry. I also have two sets of SS exchangers that have not been coated.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: malcolm2 Jan 7 2015, 07:36 PM

Where are you in NC. My folks are in Hendersonville, below Asheville. I visit often, so freight savings would be big.

Clark

Posted by: stevegm Jan 7 2015, 08:16 PM

I am just north of Charlotte. I am frequently in the Hickory area and could meet them. But, do you need 1.7L, 1.8L or 2.0L HE? My 2.0L HE will not work with a 1.7L (or 1.8L I think) muffler. The 1.7 (and 1.8 HE I think) curve up at the back. The 2.0L ones do not. So, you have to use the same muffler as HE (based on size of engine). I don't think there are other changes. But, others on 914world could speak to that better than I. Just let me know if any of the SS sets I have will help.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 7 2015, 08:19 PM

Steve's right as long as you include the proper muffler hanger.

Posted by: stevegm Jan 7 2015, 08:27 PM

Good point, Mark. The muffler hangers are different. So, if you go with 2.0L HE and muffler, you need the 2.0 hanger. I have one that I will include with the HE.

Posted by: pilothyer Jan 7 2015, 08:40 PM

Clark.........I have a really nice set of the late (75 - 76) you can have for free. they look like stainless. Let me know if interested and we can arrange to get them to you.
Jerry

Posted by: stevegm Jan 7 2015, 08:52 PM

That's a deal you can't beat. Take it. :-)

Posted by: rjames Jan 7 2015, 11:58 PM

Free is good, but they didn't make a late model in stainless and I still say go for the backdate. Extra horsepower and more heat!

Posted by: malcolm2 Jan 8 2015, 08:24 AM

Thanks Jerry. That will be a good middle ground fix for now. Better than HEAT TAPE AND A BUD CAN.

I can start to accumulate the backdate parts and make that my next upgrade.

I'll call you soon.

Thanks to everyone else for their input, I did learn something this week.

Clark

Posted by: malcolm2 Jan 25 2015, 10:08 AM

UPDATE: My apologies to all the back-daters out there, but I went with cheap and available and good condition on this one.

I hooked up the Jerry and relieved him of ALL of his early HEs and air guides, etc....

He was correct, he had enough stuff to make a nice set. The airguides were only slightly deteriorated in the hot spots. I removed air guides cleaned them up and hit them with some rattle can exhaust paint.

I also sealed up any and all cracks or holes in the HE and joints between HE and exhaust pipe with Permatex muffler seal from Advance Auto. My other 3 FLAP stores did not have Permatex. Also bought a Mr Gasket 10x10 sheet to make me some triangle gaskets. Plus the small thin gasket at the mouth of the air guide.

Looking forward to getting the tranny back from the Dr so I can put it all together again.




I know it is rare, but if anyone WANTS late HE, etc... I got 'em and you can have them for pick-up or shipping cost. Lots to choose from.

Clark